Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: IC1967 on July 10, 2014, 07:06:35 pm
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My piss is really boiling. Why on earth are these people on strike today? They seem to think they should be getting better pensions and pay rises. What a joke. Don't they realise they are already much better off than workers in the private sector?
Let's examine the facts:
On average they work 9 years less and earn 30% more.
They get much better holidays.
They get much better sick pay provision.
They retire on much better pensions.
They've been getting pay rises every year.
They can work flexible hours.
They have excellent job security.
They work in a much less demanding working environment.
Pay is higher.
I could go on. Take my advice and stop bringing your excellent working conditions to the attention of people in the private sector. Wake up and smell the coffee before the private sector rumbles you.
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People who work and use their skills for the benefit of others.
They are not greedy and profit/money driven.
Vilified by our right wing press.
Having contracts reneged on.
the current financial problems of this and other countries are the fault of greed, capitalism and parasites such as bankers.
A balanced economy with a strong public sector is tbe hallmark of a decent caring society.
This and existing rights are worth defending and i salute those on strike, whether the public sector here today, or those forced into worse working conditions such as Doncasters Care Uk workers or the drivers sacked by TESCO.
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My piss is really boiling. Why on earth are these people on strike today? They seem to think they should be getting better pensions and pay rises. What a joke. Don't they realise they are already much better off than workers in the private sector?
Let's examine the facts:
On average they work 9 years less and earn 30% more. WHERE DID YOU GET THIS CLAIM?
They get much better holidays. DO THEY?? REALLY? OR ARE YOU JUST LUMPING ALL PUBLIC SECTOR WORKERS WITH TEACHERS?
They get much better sick pay provision. WORK FOR A DECENT PRIVATE SECTOR COMPANY AND SICK PAY IS IN PLACE THERE TOO
They retire on much better pensions. FAIR POINT
They've been getting pay rises every year. ER....1%?
They can work flexible hours. SO CAN PRIVATE SECTOR, QUITE EASILY
They have excellent job security. HA HA HA HA HA
They work in a much less demanding working environment. ARE YOU HAVING A LAUGH??
Pay is higher. HA HA HA HA
I could go on. Take my advice and stop bringing your excellent working conditions to the attention of people in the private sector. Wake up and smell the coffee before the private sector rumbles you.
You could go on..talking BS but I am glad you didn't.
How did you get holiday pay, sick pay, 26 plus holidays, better than minimum wage, safer working conditions?? Damn those pesky unions..they are the evil.
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Don't feed the troll fellas.
Looking forward to the season Mick?
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On average they work 9 years less and earn 30% more. WHERE DID YOU GET THIS CLAIM?
Why do you doubt me? You should know by now that I only deal in facts. Anyway, you've asked the question so I will give the answer as I always do (unlike some others around here I could mention).
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1287497/Public-sector-staff-spend-9-fewer-years-work-earn-30-private-employees.html
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They are not greedy and profit/money driven.
pmsl. Then why are they on strike protesting about wanting bigger pay rises and better pensions?
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Vilified by our right wing press.
Really? Show your evidence. I've seen no vilification.
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Having contracts reneged on.
I prefer the word 'renegotiated' to take account of our current desperate financial situation as a country. I think you'll find the private sector has taken far more of a beating in this regard. How many people in the public sector are on zero hours contracts for instance?
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the current financial problems of this and other countries are the fault of greed, capitalism and parasites such as bankers.
Wrong. The current financial problems are all the fault of the previous Labour government.
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A balanced economy with a strong public sector is tbe hallmark of a decent caring society.
What a contradiction. You can't have a balanced economy when you have such a big public sector paid for by a shrinking private sector. At least this situation is now being reversed by Dave and George. Long may it continue.
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✊💦
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This and existing rights are worth defending and i salute those on strike, whether the public sector here today, or those forced into worse working conditions such as Doncasters Care Uk workers or the drivers sacked by TESCO.
You need to come into the real world. Our public sector is unaffordable and something has to give. I don't want to keep on borrowing billions just to keep people in jobs that we can't afford. Shame on you for wanting to mortgage the future to generations not yet born just so you can have a cushy life now.
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They get much better holidays. DO THEY?? REALLY? OR ARE YOU JUST LUMPING ALL PUBLIC SECTOR WORKERS WITH TEACHERS?
You really are out of touch. Many in the private sector are lucky if they get 20 days a year. More than 80% of public sector employees get more than 25 with many getting more than 30.
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We have public and private sector staff. It's quite interesting comparing the difference in all areas.
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They get much better sick pay provision. WORK FOR A DECENT PRIVATE SECTOR COMPANY AND SICK PAY IS IN PLACE THERE TOO
Good sick pay is in place for all public sector employees. It is only in place for a small minority of private sector employees. I know someone on a zero hours contract that works for one of the biggest companies in the world who has just broken his leg and he gets no sick pay whatsoever.
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(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/PeterLB/Funge/Dont-Feed-the-Trolls.png)
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They've been getting pay rises every year. ER....1%?
When incremental pay rises are also taken into account (pay rises just for length of service), then public sector employees have been getting more than inflation.
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They can work flexible hours. SO CAN PRIVATE SECTOR, QUITE EASILY
Wrong. it's much harder in the private sector. Haven't you heard of zero hours contracts?
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💩🔪
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They work in a much less demanding working environment. ARE YOU HAVING A LAUGH??
No, but you are. It's a much easier, less stressful life in the public sector (not in all cases, but in the vast majority).
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Pay is higher. HA HA HA HA
Fact. I'm glad you find it funny.
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They get much better holidays. DO THEY?? REALLY? OR ARE YOU JUST LUMPING ALL PUBLIC SECTOR WORKERS WITH TEACHERS?
You really are out of touch. Many in the private sector are lucky if they get 20 days a year. More than 80% of public sector employees get more than 25 with many getting more than 30.
The statutory minimum holidays as per the working time directive (EU enshrined legislation for those wanting to pull out of the EU) for full time work is 20 days a year plus 8 bank holidays. Anyone not getting their entitled holidays need to join a union and enforce their rights.
Your talking out of your arse as usual. Go back to flogging betterware or backing nags or whatever it was you claim to do instead of writing inaccurate nonsense on here.
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I've said nothing inaccurate. As usual you lefties try to twist what I say to suit your agenda. So I'll repeat what I said. Many in the private sector are lucky if they get 20 days paid holiday a year. I would say the minimum in the public sector is 25 with many getting more than 30. Bank holidays is the same for private and public sector.
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"many" are not "lucky" to get 20 days holiday in the private sector. That is completely inaccurate. It's the law. Are you implying many private sector firms are breaking the law? You're full of shit.
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Do I need to spell it out? Many in the private sector are self employed or work part time. It is not the law that they get 20 days holidays. Many self employed people don't get any holidays. You obviously don't know that there are over 4 million self employed workers. I don't know about you but I would classify 4 million as 'many'.
You obviously don't know there are over 9 million part time workers. Many don't get 20 days paid leave as they don't work enough hours to qualify. I don't know about you but I would classify 9 million as 'many'. Get a grip man.
https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/entitlement
Take my advice and do what BST has done. Realise you are being made a fool of and slink off with your tail between your legs to limit the damage to your tarnished reputation.
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Self employed workers can please themselves as to how many holidays they have. An employee can't. Completely irrelevant point. Part time employees have their holidays pro-rata in relation to a full time workers. Likewise if an employee is forced to work beyond their contracted hours they should be given extra holidays to compensate. Like I said, full of shit.
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Self employed workers can please themselves as to how many holidays they have. An employee can't. Completely irrelevant point. Part time employees have their holidays pro-rata in relation to a full time workers. Likewise if an employee is forced to work beyond their contracted hours they should be given extra holidays to compensate. Like I said, full of shit.
You just can't let it lie can you. To say self employed workers can please themselves as to how many holidays they have is laughable. Many have no choice in the matter. Many of them don't take any holidays. Many can't afford to. Many can't leave the business for a period of time or it will do serious damage to their futures. Get a grip man.
I don't know any self employed people that have more than 10 days holiday a year. You state 'Part time employees have their holidays pro-rata in relation to a full time workers'. At last something we agree on. Therefore because they are part time they aren't entitled to 20 days!!! Why can't you work that one out? Therefore the vast majority of them don't get 20 days. This is part of the many I referred to earlier.
As for your assertion that if an employee is forced to work beyond their contracted hours they should be given extra holidays to compensate that is complete rubbish. No matter how many hours you work the employer only has to give you 20 days. It is totally up to the employer if you get more.
Now take my advice and do one.
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Self employed workers can please themselves as to how many holidays they have. An employee can't. Completely irrelevant point. Part time employees have their holidays pro-rata in relation to a full time workers. Likewise if an employee is forced to work beyond their contracted hours they should be given extra holidays to compensate. Like I said, full of shit.
You just can't let it lie can you. To say self employed workers can please themselves as to how many holidays they have is laughable. Many have no choice in the matter. Many of them don't take any holidays. Many can't afford to. Many can't leave the business for a period of time or it will do serious damage to their futures. Get a grip man.
I don't know any self employed people that have more than 10 days holiday a year. You state 'Part time employees have their holidays pro-rata in relation to a full time workers'. At last something we agree on. Therefore because they are part time they aren't entitled to 20 days!!! Why can't you work that one out? Therefore the vast majority of them don't get 20 days. This is part of the many I referred to earlier.
As for your assertion that if an employee is forced to work beyond their contracted hours they should be given extra holidays to compensate that is complete rubbish. No matter how many hours you work the employer only has to give you 20 days. It is totally up to the employer if you get more.
Now take my advice and do one.
It isn't complete rubbish and I have won the very same when I was a union rep for my members at a previous workplace through reasoned negotiation. Exactly the lack of which has caused every single public sector dispute since the Tories took office in 2010. If you'd have read my post properly you'd notice the word SHOULD? Not HAVE TO or MUST? If you wasn't such a knob you'd understand what I said instead of jumping to conclusions. Or is it you now twisting my words to suit your warped right wing agenda?
Morally its the correct thing to do if you want to go an extra yard to look after the well being of your workers if your an employer. Why should someone working 40 hours a week get the same holidays as someone forced to work an extra 10 or 20 hours compulsory overtime? Morally, to give the employee extra hours holiday to compensate is the correct thing to do. But an ideological nut job Tory would never grasp that concept would they?
I know plenty of self employed people and business owners who have the good sense and trust to train someone up to hold the fort while they take their holidays. And if they haven't the good sense to run their business affairs properly so they can have some rest and relaxation then perhaps they should look for a bloody job with all the extras that come with employment? Can't have their cake and eat it, or perhaps you think they should?
Thanks for explaining how pro-rata holidays for part time employees work though. I wasn't quite sure :unsure:
As for limiting damage to already tarnished reputations...your hypocrisy is something else.
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You don't half talk a load of old cock. No one is forced to work an extra 10 to 20 hours overtime. You'd have done better to try to get the employer to take on more workers to help get the dole queue down. By condoning extra hours for workers you are culpable in destroying family life. There is more to life than earning money. Morally the correct thing to do is to take on extra workers.
Many self employed people can't afford to take holidays, especially in the early years of business. What is it you don't understand about this?
So to my main point still stands and has been backed up by me. Many people in the private sector get less holidays than those in the public sector. Fact. You have said nothing to disprove this and I have said plenty to prove my point.
So stop talking a load of old cock and come into the real world and just admit you were totally wrong. An abject apology will be immediately accepted. I'll say no more on the matter and we can make a fresh start.
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I'd rather rake out my own eyes with a spoon that lower myself to apologise to a complete dick head like you.
Again, you jump to conclusions. How do you claim to know that no one is forced to work compulsory overtime of 10 or 20 hours a week in this day and age? You flog shit and back donkeys you muppet. I've forgot more than you know about employment and industrial relations.
Its called contractually opting out of the WTD (illegal to do unilaterally but companies do get away with it thanks to the Tories denying employees the right to challenge it in Employment Tribunals through the fees they imposed) and to have to help the company contractually in busy periods as per the needs of the business. This is a part of many contracts of employment these days.
A large seafood company in Grimsby that I have visited as part of my current job regularly force its staff contractually to do 14 hours a week extra, every week, without fail with only 4 hours notice (2 hours a day and 4 on a weekend day of the companies choice). So, once again you've shot your mouth off and made yourself look like a prat.
In my previous job where I was a shop steward, the compulsory overtime was to cover peaks in business activity. So, are you telling me you'd argue to set someone on for a few weeks, three times a year and deny my members, most of whom actually wanted some extra money to put away for a better family life - for Xmas and holidays abroad - in the process, and then lay off all those you set on after the peak levelled out? Really?! Its you who need to get a grip!! You make sweeping generalisations thinking your some sort of expert and you time and time again make a complete tit of yourself.
Isn't it about time you gave up?
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Look just apologise and we can move on. You are making yourself look dafter with every post. No one can be forced to work more than 48 hours in a week (unless you work in certain jobs like the armed forces and police). Most workers have to opt out of the WTD to be able to work more than 48 hours. The employer cannot force them. It is totally up to the employee. As a leftie union man you should know this.
You seem quite happy to destroy family life. I've got news for you. Money isn't everything. You would do better to encourage people to work less hours and to spend more time with their family. More people could then be employed and there would be less scroungers on the dole.
I notice you no longer dispute my main claims. Instead you go off at a tangent about overtime! Even then you make it up as you go along. Just admit I've made you look a complete berk. Get that abject apology sorted and we'll say no more about it. In future get your facts straight before you dispute my prognostications. I will always consider your point of view before deciding I was right all along.
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The typical 'apologise' post. Funny isn't it how 'certain' threads tend to end up the same!!
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That's because I am always right and the other person is always wrong. The other person invariably resorts to abuse and incorrect statements. I merely offer them the chance to apologise so we can wipe the slate clean and move on.
Invariably though they don't have the good grace to do this. If ever I was wrong I would instantly apologise. We are all human and we all make mistakes. I just can't remember the last time I made one.
Unfortunately by not apologising, this then not only leaves them looking like a complete berk but also shows they cannot do the decent thing and move on. I suspect they eventually end up all bitter and twisted. It would be so much better for their soul if they could just bring themselves to issue an abject apology.
I'm waiting.
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jonny - just ignore mick. Tbh I'm surprised he hasn't been banned yet for being a blatant WUM :whistle:
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I agree with the poster regardig one day action .It should be a general strike as the public services belong to us all , followed by nationalisation of the commanding hights of the economy under democratic workers control.Wum apart , why is everyone swollowing this crap about austerity when we know the money is here but concentrated in the hands of the super rich .
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I agree with the poster regardig one day action .It should be a general strike as the public services belong to us all , followed by nationalisation of the commanding hights of the economy under democratic workers control.Wum apart , why is everyone swollowing this crap about austerity when we know the money is here but concentrated in the hands of the super rich .
Your policies have been tried before in other countries. The main one being Russia. I rest my case.
You need to look at our National Debt to realise that there isn't any money. Every man woman and child owes over £20k. Every working person owes over £45k. Every household in the country has to find over £2k every year just to pay the interest on our debts. Get a grip man.
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That's because I am always right
*cough*deflation*cough*
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That's because I am always right
*cough*deflation*cough*
Deflation is on it's way. Inflation recently fell to 1.5% which is way below what the BoE wants or expected. It will continue its downward trend and deflation has already arrived in parts of the Eurozone.
Eurozone-losing-safety-margin-against-deflation-trap-as-core-gauge-falls-to-record-low.html
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That's because I am always right
*cough*deflation*cough*
Deflation is on it's way. Inflation recently fell to 1.5% which is way below what the BoE wants or expected. It will continue its downward trend and deflation has already arrived in parts of the Eurozone.
Eurozone-losing-safety-margin-against-deflation-trap-as-core-gauge-falls-to-record-low.html
It even more recently went up to 1.9%, pretty much on the BoE target.
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A temporary blip and nowhere near what the BoE really wants it to be. They want to inflate away the debt problem but are struggling due to deflationary pressures.
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Yeah, it's so far away from their 2% target it's unreal...
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They've put one over on you. They rely on gullible fools. Ask yourself the question why did they keep monetary policy extremely loose when inflation was much higher. I better tell you because you won't be able to work it out.
They wanted high inflation and low interest rates to inflate the debt away and to get people spending because it wasn't worth saving as your money would not attract an interest rate to match or better inflation. Savers like me are paying the price for the rest of the spendthrift population who don't know the meaning of the word savings.
Trust me, inflation is much lower than they would like. They haven't got a clue about demographics like what I have.
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You're just showing yourself up as completely ignorant as to how the National Debt is financed if you think that it can be 'inflationed away', but keep digging, it's fun watching you make a prat of yourself.
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Are you for real? Of course the National Debt can be inflated away. You are financially illiterate. I'd back off if I were you before I dish out another beating. I'd have thought you'd have learnt by now that I know far more about everything than you do. You are a glutton for punishment.
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Okay ive got a grip ( around a pitchfork)ready to man the barricades comrade.But here s my take on russia .Crap record on human rights under a totalitarian system but went from a peasant economy to a superstate in fifty years .Lessons do need to be learned However i dont live in russia so that should be the end of that discussion.I do live in donny and grew up believing that the mark of a civilised society is how it treats its most vulnerable .Health care free at the point of delivery ,descent housing and education for all made possible by socialist on the back of a post war keynsian economy which made a mixed economy viable for at least fifty years ,until now.Witness the closure of local care homes etc which would have been unheard of by previous generations .Working people fought long and hard for our terms and conditions whic capitalism can no longer afford .In my opinion it is a spent force using inflation statitstics to load the resposibility for its crisis on the vulnerable .You should look again and get a grip yourself .There is no such thing as a free enterprise economy .Succesive governments have had state intervention for years in faviour of the high rollers .Witness rolls royce nationalisation in 1972 when it suited .As for debt everyone knows bankrupsy is a cynical business strategy to rip off workers who are at the bottom of the pile when it comes to paying off creditors.Basic inflation occurs when cash which is just paper is absorbed by lack of commodites being produced thus pushing up prices.Witness the decimation of our manufacturing industry.Talking about debt .i owe sod all to these unaccountable parasites sunning it up in tax havens around the world but they owe me plenty in unpaid surplus value wages over the years.Austerity is the biggest con of the twentieth century perpetrated by those who continue to enjoy lavish life styles at our expence .Hope this helps clarrify a few things
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I would be grateful if you could trawl through your ramble and correct the many grammatical errors. A few paragraphs wouldn't go amiss either. Once you've done this I'll do my best to try understand what you are babbling on about and give you the benefit of my opinion.
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I dont remember asking for your opinion .However , i would be prepared to give you a medical one if i had the time .As for your comment regarding my grammer, i am prepared to acknowlege my articulate limitations and will immediately top myself as i dunt av dosh for neete scole
Innit
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Are you for real? Of course the National Debt can be inflated away. You are financially illiterate. I'd back off if I were you before I dish out another beating. I'd have thought you'd have learnt by now that I know far more about everything than you do. You are a glutton for punishment.
Wibble.
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Wibble.
I think that's the most intelligent comment you've ever posted.