Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Askern_reds on December 21, 2014, 12:34:07 am
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For god sake Hartlepool takeing him ffs we missed out there don't care what the fury duddys say
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They haven't taken him yet, just their new manager showing an interest.
How many times must we say this - whilst Evans remains an unrepentant convicted rapist, then he's a non-starter for us IMHO and for many others I guess too. Should he clear his name, then a rethink is perfectly acceptable.
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Football about to go further in the gutter shocker!!
Football fan has no morals shocker!!
Club will to do anything to survive/succeed shocker!!
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Fury duddys?
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http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fuddy+duddy
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Hartlepool have issued a statement saying they will not be signing him, he's unemployable in British Football
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How can he be unemployable, yet Hughes and McCormack be employable?
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How can he be unemployable, yet Hughes and McCormack be employable?
For a start they've served their punishment, Evans is out on licence.
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Evans didn't kill anyone
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Evans didn't kill anyone
They both apologised for their actions and tried to make amends. Evans on the other hand has stated he did nothing wrong. The courts said otherwise. I have more faith in the british justice system then some tin pot footballer who believes hes above the law.
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Evans raped a silly, young drunken girl who had already s*****d his mate (who wasn't guilty of rape) Yes, it was a crime worthy of gaol which is what he got. He doesn't believe he was guilty and is appealing. His right. How can he apologise and then appeal? He can't.
The other two as I recall, killed people (one of them kids if I remember correctly) when driving their cars pissed. So, the fact they have apologised makes it ok for them to play football again? Not in my book it doesn't. Which is the 'worse' crime? Having sex with a girl who was too pissed to consent, or killing a couple of kids when you're driving your car over the limit? You decide mate
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In my opinion rape is as bad as murder. A rape victim has to live with what happened for the rest of their lives and I can't begin to imagine what psychological damage such an heinous crime must do.
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Ok, I give in
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I seem to think that the two offences that are being called murder were in fact manslaughter.
The difference being that they never committed the offences with intent.
I'm not sure you can rape someone without intent?
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How can he apologise and then appeal? He can't.
Yes he can, he can apologise for his actions whilst still contesting that they constituted rape. As far as I know, he hasn't done this - at least, not to the supposed victim.
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I seem to think that the two offences that are being called murder were in fact manslaughter.
The difference being that they never committed the offences with intent.
I'm not sure you can rape someone without intent?
They got in a car while drunk and drove while drunk, Hughes then ran off and left his victim for dead,
Hughes victim didn't die but is now in a wheelchair and brain damaged, McCormack killed his victims.
If Evans is adamant he didn't do it why on earth would he apologise? I've looked into this case quite a lot and the only evidence there is, is that the girl was too drunk to consent.
That's it, so it's his word against hers, she has already accused numerous other people of sexual assault and rape, but this wasn't allowed to be told to the jury
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tell me funk whats the most likely seniario,the girl going out again and getting pissed or the parents of the kiddies killed by mccormack having a real jolly christmas
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When a drunk driver kills someone they don't intend to kill. But their actions are stupid and they have to live with the guilt forever.
A rapist intends to have sex with the victim.
It is the intent and remorse that is the difference. I would be wary about DRFC employing a killer drink driver too.
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DO you know what. They all comitted heinous crimes which could have easily been avoided. All as bad as each other, dont forget the victims.
Just imagine that girl was your daughter then lets see how blase you are about it.
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if it was my daughter i would want to know what the f=== was she doing going back to a strangers hotel and being that drunk she didnt know why ,what did she think she was going for a game of scrabble,and if it was my kiddies that got killed mccormack wouldnt be playing football he would be too busy watching his back,cause i dont care how much it cost or how much time i got,i could always say sorry didnt mean to do it then all would be well
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Didn't know you were there Acko. He raped here. He knew she hadn't given consent.
Hughes and McCormack knew what they were doing..All guilty.
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I've looked into this case quite a lot and the only evidence there is, is that the girl was too drunk to consent.
Am I missing something here? The girl was too drunk to consent. Evans had sex without her consent. Get it? No consent = RAPE. How much more do you want it spelt out?
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i wasnt there neither was you the girl said she couldnt remember saying no,whats men got to do now carry a contract and get it signed.and like many cases coming to the courts now no evidence just one word against another very dangerous president to set evans as never denied he had sex with her just one word against another and this crap about showing remorse and saying didnt mean to do it the prisons are full of people like that should we let em all out and say on your way.it doesnt work like that i appologised for speeding, and said i would never do it again.it worked fined £300 6 penalty points good job i said sorry they might have hung me
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You can spell it out as much and as simple as you like but some people obviously think of rape as a menial crime and therefore acceptable in society.
In my opinion football needs to re-evaluate who can and can't play the sport. Hughes, McCormack, Evans, King and any other scumbag like them should not be allowed to play.
Certainly players still serving their sentence should definitely not be able to play. If on licence then they haven't served their sertence.
Some people in football do not live in the real world!!
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In my opinion rape is as bad as murder. A rape victim has to live with what happened for the rest of their lives and I can't begin to imagine what psychological damage such an heinous crime must do.
It screws you for life, and you live with it awake and at sleep.
Maybe coz of the people involved work at same place, its you that has to change jobs and stop going to College.
You feel frightened of going out for a long time and its you that feels betrayed, and your whole life you wonder who you can trust..............but Hell if he says hes not guilty even when found Guilty by his Peers and there will always be some scum who believes the sinned against is the guilty ........................... then GOD help us.
And then you wonder why some don't report theses Disgusting things.
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weve argued or dicussed this point many times for and against.i have alwats backed evans to be allowed to play as others have said no so we are going over old ground.my last word on this is people say there is only one rape weather its by brutal force or someone who in her own admission was too drunk to remember.yet there is two types of murder,prmeditated or manslaughter so if rape is rape murder is murder no more i didnt mean to do it ok manslaughter.god lincoln she reported someone else before evans she still ent back to a strangers hotel she doesnt to me sound scarred for life
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I've looked into this case quite a lot and the only evidence there is, is that the girl was too drunk to consent.
Am I missing something here? The girl was too drunk to consent. Evans had sex without her consent. Get it? No consent = RAPE. How much more do you want it spelt out?
I think you must be missing something... She wasn't too drunk to consent with one guy but she was with the other.
And who's to say she was too drunk anyhow?
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I've looked into this case quite a lot and the only evidence there is, is that the girl was too drunk to consent.
Am I missing something here? The girl was too drunk to consent. Evans had sex without her consent. Get it? No consent = RAPE. How much more do you want it spelt out?
I think you must be missing something... She wasn't too drunk to consent with one guy but she was with the other.
And who's to say she was too drunk anyhow?
So you're saying she was sober when she didn't consent? That doesn't help Evans case much, quite the reverse in fact.
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you forget both men were charged so in her words she didnt consent to anyone,its just one was found not guilty and one was found guilty,strange dont you think.and on another point if evans was a player from down south or scotland or even europe would we care less.its just that he played for one of our local rivals.and may i suggest you read about robinho and see how many times hes been charged but brushed under the table
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Her argument is she can't remember whether she consented or not.
She cannot remember anything,
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Your all forgetting 1thing that's for sure , he's got writes ? Yes human writes ? And if politicians well some ? Say Jack the Ripper ,hindley .and the rest of the murdering gets have got writes ,then so as Evans to to carry on his trade . And before you all start ,majority not watching Donny no more till Dickov sacked the rest not comein if we sighned him that will leave about ten of us, bet more than that turn up if we did
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Your all forgetting 1thing that's for sure , he's got writes ? Yes human writes ? And if politicians well some ? Say Jack the Ripper ,hindley .and the rest of the murdering gets have got writes ,then so as Evans to to carry on his trade . And before you all start ,majority not watching Donny no more till Dickov sacked the rest not comein if we sighned him that will leave about ten of us, bet more than that turn up if we did
And which human right do you think he's entitled under the HRA that he's not getting?
Here it is, knock yourself out...
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1
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To do his work simple as that
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I've looked into this case quite a lot and the only evidence there is, is that the girl was too drunk to consent.
Am I missing something here? The girl was too drunk to consent. Evans had sex without her consent. Get it? No consent = RAPE. How much more do you want it spelt out?
I think you must be missing something... She wasn't too drunk to consent with one guy but she was with the other.
And who's to say she was too drunk anyhow?
You said that you had looked into the case "and the only evidence there is, is that the girl was too drunk to consent." The jury believed her story, and found Evans guilty. Read my lips: "The jury believed her."
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Ok, so are you trying tell me that a jury has never been wrong?
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I've done jury service and it was a farce
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Another point is that he hasn't played competitively for 2 years or so. His record wasn't prolific before being sent down. He had one good season if my memory serves right. And to end, no thanks.
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Well said Dicko ? Look through history how many miscarriages of justice
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He asnt played for too years true ? But he's still best forward in this div iff not championship aswell as for just have in 1good season ? What's are current forwards done ?
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His record at Sheff U at best is 1 every 2.5 games. Most of which would have been league 1 goals. My point was that he has had 2 years out, whatever game he had is likely to have suffered. As for best in league 1, maybe 2-3 years back, now more than likely not. Championship, not a chance. I'm not going to get into his rights and wrongs, just a no from me though.
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Well said Dicko ? Look through history how many miscarriages of justice
As a percentage of cases deliberated on by a jury, the number that are a miscarriage are negligible.
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His record doesn't enter into it. He is a convicted rapist, an unrepentant one at that. The guy isn't being stopped from working altogether, therefore his human rights aren't affected. Let him f**k off into any other profession, one where he'll slave away for 50 years then die without anyone remembering his name, the scumbag.
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To do his work simple as that
Firstly, there is no part of the Human Rights Act that covers that.
Secondly, no ones taken any such right away from him. He is free to play for anyone that wants to pay him to. If he's made himself unemployable, that's his fault, no-one else's. You can't force anyone to employ him if they don't want to.
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very bad argument stockton when you say the wrong convictions are negilible so as long as we get 9 out of 10 right thats ok,and didnt we hang someone called evans guilty by a jury then found not guilty oops sorry how do we mend a broken neck.2 years out of football nothing alick jeffrey was out a hell of a lot longer still proved to be the best striker we ever had.
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Acko - stop being so melodramatic, we're not talking about the death penalty.
My response was to what you had said - read it in that context
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very bad argument stockton when you say the wrong convictions are negilible
He didn't say that.
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The number may be negligible but it shows it happens, if his appeal is successful then is he all of a sudden a decent bloke?
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I've done jury service and it was a farce
Maybe you should've done better?
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The number may be negligible but it shows it happens, if his appeal is successful then is he all of a sudden a decent bloke?
No, if he is successful he is no longer a convicted rapist, he's then cleared his name. Then whether we want him to join us is whether we like him as a footballer or not.
As Leroy said on the FLS the other day, he needs to concentrate on clearing his name first.
yet there is two types of murder,prmeditated or manslaughter so if rape is rape murder is murder
No, murder is premeditated by definition - or it isn't murder! If you deliberately intend to kill someone, that's murder. If you punch someone in a pub fight and they fall, hit their head on the kerb and die, it's manslaughter (most likely). If you drive dangerously, and kill another driver or a pedestrian, it is probably "death by danerous driving".
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Just full of self employed people who are losing money on a daily basis. On my case there were two people on trial. Both needed to be found guilty/not guilty to reach a decision. So in the end people just said whatever was the quickest way to get themselves back to work
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Well said Dicko ? Look through history how many miscarriages of justice
And look how many more have been got right. The law of probabilities, and the little fact that no consent was given, means the verdict was correct.
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She says she was too drunk to consent, he says consent was given.
She can't remember,
She's accused a number of other people of similar offences, evidence that wasn't allowed to be given to the jury.
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Evans hasn't expressed remorse regarding the rape charge because he's claiming he is innocent.
There are various degrees of rape and the sentence imposed is meant to reflect the severity of it. Evans 30 months term could well be an indication that the degree of his offence is at the lower end of the scale.
Personally I think it's probably better all round to wait until his appeal is heard.
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She says she was too drunk to consent, he says consent was given.
She can't remember,
She's accused a number of other people of similar offences, evidence that wasn't allowed to be given to the jury.
It wasnt consensual sex, ergo rape.
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Just maybe those condoning his actions would be quite happy to have sex with a woman too drunk either to say yes or remember later saying yes.
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all the video evidence shows this girl walking unaided into pizza parlour,it also shows her walking unaided into hotel on both occasions with high heeled shoes,the owner of the hotel stated she didnt scream shout for help or sound in distress,all of this was shown in the court trial.but a few hours latter she claims she was too drunk to no if she said yes or no.maybe she thought aye aye there could be cash in this.and further more i have already said who would you put your money on having a jolly christmas,the girl or the parents of the two kids killed by mccormack,and dont come this crap he showed remorse it doesnt do anything for me saying sorry
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By using the word maybe in your scenario it would be thrown out as speculation though surely.
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If you're going to use 'maybe', maybe she could have been your sister or daughter.
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Maybe he's innocent, like the Guildford Four, the Birmingham Six, the Bridgewater Four, Barry George, Stefan Kisko, Stephen Downing, and not forgetting the child killers Sally Clark and Angela Cannings.
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And maybe he's innocent like Peter Sutcliffe, Fred West, Ian Huntley, Jimmy Saville, Adolf Hitler.......... :ermm:
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Maybe he is. Maybe footballers and football fans have no morals. Maybe non-consenual sex with a drunk girl isn't really rape. Maybe all our judges and juries are corrupt unless they give the verdict we wish to hear.
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And maybe he's innocent like Peter Sutcliffe, Fred West, Ian Huntley, Adolf Hitler.......... :ermm:
But, er......THEY weren't! :facepalm:
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if she was drunk, but the following day cant remember anything, how does she know if she consented or not?
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all the video evidence shows this girl walking unaided into pizza parlour,it also shows her walking unaided into hotel on both occasions with high heeled shoes,the owner of the hotel stated she didnt scream shout for help or sound in distress,all of this was shown in the court trial.but a few hours latter she claims she was too drunk to no if she said yes or no.maybe she thought aye aye there could be cash in this.and further more i have already said who would you put your money on having a jolly christmas,the girl or the parents of the two kids killed by mccormack,and dont come this crap he showed remorse it doesnt do anything for me saying sorry
And yet, in a male-dominated justice system, where women have a massive fight on their hands just to even get the damn case to court, never mind see justice done, Evans was found guilty in a unanimous verdict. Don't take everything you read as gospel, particularly not when it's on chedevans.com.
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About time this topic should be closed .................
If some sicko wants to play football so be it........
But I for one will not watch him.......
And there are some would find anything fair game know doubt.........
A scumbag is a scumbag...... in ANY shirt
end this now please
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Omg macho ,so what she says goes? And forget he's still saying he's innocent? And since when as the law be graded women , women have never found it difficult to get a case to court , in deed if the law states if some one claims rape and it's not hold up in a court of law shouldn't she face a jail sentence because I think she should, and again I'll refer to gray fix case ? What was a 15 year old doing in a night club
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In my opinion rape is as bad as murder. A rape victim has to live with what happened for the rest of their lives and I can't begin to imagine what psychological damage such an heinous crime must do.
Parents of a girl raped and murdered would probably prefer their daughter to have been raped and not murdered, rather than the other way around, so I can't agree with that Funk. I imagine the victim would prefer to be alive too, though not always, I grant you.
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Some of the scenarios people are coming out with are getting a bit daft now, thankfully no one got murdere although a crime hastaken place
If anyone has seen the video featuring our very loved Chris brown and his Sunderland friends which we all like a giggle about, does that scenario look abit rapey ???
Did the girl consent to it ?
Did she consent to them watching ???
Is she intoxicated ???
How different things could have been for those 4
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the bare facts still remain NO evidence one word agains another,very dangerous precident to set judgement on,i would be more inclined to beleave her story if both had been found guilty but they wearnt but we are left with the scenario of a jury guessing,there used to be a time in this country were evidence was important and now it seems prove yourself innocent lets just see what side the jurys on.
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the bare facts still remain NO evidence one word agains another,very dangerous precident to set judgement on,i would be more inclined to beleave her story if both had been found guilty but they wearnt but we are left with the scenario of a jury guessing,there used to be a time in this country were evidence was important and now it seems prove yourself innocent lets just see what side the jurys on.
How can you claim ANY of that if you were not in court and party to ALL the evidence presented to the jury?
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I have looked at the 'evidence' offered on the Ched Evans web site, not because I wanted to form an opinion on whether we should show interest in him but because right from day one, I found it odd that one of them was acquitted and the other convicted.
I have to admit that purely on that evidence, it does make guilty look an odd verdict. The only conclusion I am able to draw from that therefore is that there was even more compelling evidence provided to counter his defence.
It does though leave me feeling disturbed that a man may have been convicted on less than reliable evidence. Rape is a terrible threat to any male who risks casual sex with a woman. There are unfortunately women out there who will make a false rape allegation for their own reasons and it appears this woman has done it before. Any man falsely accused is likely to be every bit as damaged by that as a woman subjected to rape, and please don't take that to be an attempt to trivialise rape. It is a most dreadful crime.
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Look, it's very simple. He was convicted of rape therefore his career is over, end of. Any club that touches him with a bargepole is incredibly stupid. They will instantly become the most unpopular club in the land. I prefer to trust the court and the jury rather than his own website.
He may be innocent but given that only 1 in 30 rape cases ends in conviction then I have to say the evidence must have been compelling.
Now, regardless of his claim he is innocent, he is incredibly stupid for putting himself in the position he did. He has only himself to blame and should now try and get another job where he can quietly disappear into the background. There is no way he will ever be a footballer again and its time the penny dropped. The fact that it hasn't yet just shows how dim he is.
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A very poignant post IC2967. I'm sure its effect on the anti - Evans brigade will be quite considerable, and will almost definitely force some of them to reconsider their position on the issue, and thus support his return to professional football if his appeal is successful..
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I have looked at the 'evidence' offered on the Ched Evans web site, not because I wanted to form an opinion on whether we should show interest in him but because right from day one, I found it odd that one of them was acquitted and the other convicted.
I have to admit that purely on that evidence, it does make guilty look an odd verdict. The only conclusion I am able to draw from that therefore is that there was even more compelling evidence provided to counter his defence.
It does though leave me feeling disturbed that a man may have been convicted on less than reliable evidence. Rape is a terrible threat to any male who risks casual sex with a woman. There are unfortunately women out there who will make a false rape allegation for their own reasons and it appears this woman has done it before. Any man falsely accused is likely to be every bit as damaged by that as a woman subjected to rape, and please don't take that to be an attempt to trivialise rape. It is a most dreadful crime.
Reading the evidence on the website of the convicted rapist is hardly going to be balanced is it.
I bet North Korea's web site paints a really one sided opinion on South Korea.
I put more faith in our judicial system than Evans own spin.
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I have looked at the 'evidence' offered on the Ched Evans web site, not because I wanted to form an opinion on whether we should show interest in him but because right from day one, I found it odd that one of them was acquitted and the other convicted.
I have to admit that purely on that evidence, it does make guilty look an odd verdict. The only conclusion I am able to draw from that therefore is that there was even more compelling evidence provided to counter his defence.
It does though leave me feeling disturbed that a man may have been convicted on less than reliable evidence. Rape is a terrible threat to any male who risks casual sex with a woman. There are unfortunately women out there who will make a false rape allegation for their own reasons and it appears this woman has done it before. Any man falsely accused is likely to be every bit as damaged by that as a woman subjected to rape, and please don't take that to be an attempt to trivialise rape. It is a most dreadful crime.
Reading the evidence on the website of the convicted rapist is hardly going to be balanced is it.
I bet North Korea's web site paints a really one sided opinion on South Korea.
I put more faith in our judicial system than Evans own spin.
I thought that was what I was saying Stockton. Perhaps didn't emphasise it enough for you.
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I have looked at the 'evidence' offered on the Ched Evans web site, not because I wanted to form an opinion on whether we should show interest in him but because right from day one, I found it odd that one of them was acquitted and the other convicted.
I have to admit that purely on that evidence, it does make guilty look an odd verdict. The only conclusion I am able to draw from that therefore is that there was even more compelling evidence provided to counter his defence.
It does though leave me feeling disturbed that a man may have been convicted on less than reliable evidence. Rape is a terrible threat to any male who risks casual sex with a woman. There are unfortunately women out there who will make a false rape allegation for their own reasons and it appears this woman has done it before. Any man falsely accused is likely to be every bit as damaged by that as a woman subjected to rape, and please don't take that to be an attempt to trivialise rape. It is a most dreadful crime.
Reading the evidence on the website of the convicted rapist is hardly going to be balanced is it.
I bet North Korea's web site paints a really one sided opinion on South Korea.
I put more faith in our judicial system than Evans own spin.
I thought that was what I was saying Stockton. Perhaps didn't emphasise it enough for you.
That bit you emphasised appears to be at odds with what I have highlighted?
That's the trouble with text - it can be construed in so many ways. :unsure:
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I suspect you're over reatcing a bit Stockton. There is no reason on Earth why someone should not have doubts about this provided he has rational grounds for them. In this case Pies has offered a balanced and reasonable view. He has not claimed his view has any superiority; he has been at pains to stress that there may well have been evidence presented that would silence the doubts; he has offered a hypothesis for consideration that is based on publilcy available information. What's your beef? My view is Pies has written probably the single most balanced and sensible post in this entire thread.
BobG
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That's the trouble with text - it can be construed in so many ways. :unsure:
Bob,
as I said previously, the written word lacks emotion and context.
If Pies and myself were having a conversation face to face, I'm fairly sure that we would have clarified any ambiguity and possibly agreed?
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Yup. You're dead right. Now I should read more carefully......
Cheers!
Bob