Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: RoversDave on December 02, 2015, 06:32:25 am

Title: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: RoversDave on December 02, 2015, 06:32:25 am
When Rovers played Fulham on 15 March 1958 they kicked off at 6pm, was this because of horse racing or was there some other reason? It was 6-1 to Fulham, Jimmy Hill scored 5 if that helps jog the grey matter.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: The Red Baron on December 02, 2015, 07:01:36 am
I don't know the reason in that specific case. However I was looking at some old programmes from the early 70s and kick offs at 6.30pm on a Saturday evening were not unusual. I suspect this was on racing days.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: newyankee on December 02, 2015, 07:52:25 am

 It may have something to do with Rovers having floodlights if you can call them that. I remember standing on the one at the Rosso end and adjacent to the racecourse side. Bedford Jezzard scored Fulham's sixth goal.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: newyankee on December 02, 2015, 08:14:11 am
I have just googled that game and it says the Kick off was 1 pm not 6 pm. When you look at the Programme cover it does not give a time only the date.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: The Red Baron on December 02, 2015, 08:31:15 am

 It may have something to do with Rovers having floodlights if you can call them that. I remember standing on the one at the Rosso end and adjacent to the racecourse side. Bedford Jezzard scored Fulham's sixth goal.

We weren't allowed to use the floodlights for League matches then.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: The Red Baron on December 02, 2015, 09:07:05 am
I have just googled that game and it says the Kick off was 1 pm not 6 pm. When you look at the Programme cover it does not give a time only the date.

Newyankee- I've seen the image of the programme cover which as you say doesn't show a kick off time. Where did you find the actual KO time please? 1pm sounds very early. I suspect most games in the winter months would kick off at 2pm. Any earlier and people would still be travelling from work.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: RoversDave on December 02, 2015, 10:03:29 am
The teamsheet says 6pm


https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12310653_1177269352303089_3682010677396877384_n.jpg?oh=305cbdc331a55e363edbe404491995ff&oe=56EAE23C
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Donnywolf on December 02, 2015, 10:45:38 am
Too early for my memory bank I'm afraid

My comment was going to be that sometimes Rovers DID play when Racing was on. I seem to remember watching the Races from the Kop and one was I am pretty sure The Great Yorkshire Chase - but don't know when that is run

It was odd watching the Football and seeing the Horses galloping past and though I don't always accurately remember everything THAT did happen !

EDIT : Seems GYC is held around the 24th of January and a quick squint showed we played at Home to Swansea in the FA Cup (lost 0-2) 27th Jan 1968. That puts me at around the age I thought of AND it "fits" because they probably arranged fixtures not to clash with Racing and of course with the FA Cup it was pot luck - and it looks like it was Round 3 being held late which maybe forced it to be played
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: newyankee on December 02, 2015, 02:36:22 pm
 Hey Baron

 I googled the game and date and several things came up. In fact the front of the rovers programme was very similar to the Fulham one, maybe same printeThe time was given as 1 pm BST on one of those leads.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: wilts rover on December 02, 2015, 06:03:17 pm

 It may have something to do with Rovers having floodlights if you can call them that. I remember standing on the one at the Rosso end and adjacent to the racecourse side. Bedford Jezzard scored Fulham's sixth goal.

We weren't allowed to use the floodlights for League matches then.

I believe floodlights were allowed from the 1956 season onwards.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: The Red Baron on December 02, 2015, 06:12:20 pm
They were, but the League didn't consider ours up to standard.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: wilts rover on December 02, 2015, 06:36:51 pm
I will have to take you word for that TRB but Tony Bluff's book seems to indicate they were allowed?
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: sheffield exile1 on December 02, 2015, 08:21:05 pm
I don't know the reason in that specific case. However I was looking at some old programmes from the early 70s and kick offs at 6.30pm on a Saturday evening were not unusual. I suspect this was on racing days.
If I remember it was because there was an experiment whereby people could come to the match and stay in town and still have a night out at the pub etc as the end would be around 8.10-8.15pm. Don't forget some pubs didn't open until 7pm on a Saturday night, certainly in Mexborough.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: newyankee on December 02, 2015, 08:36:13 pm
The original lights were in use then as that is when we played the friendlies against the foreign sides. At that time we were the only team in the North ( I think) that had lights.

 As lights they were a waste of time, also, they could only be a certain height because of the Airfield next to the ground being still operational for small aircraft.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Bentley Bullet on December 02, 2015, 09:23:28 pm
I remember the old lights but never saw them switched on.

I first saw Belle Vue lit-up on the 24th Aug 1965, against Hartlepools United on a tuesday night. It was the start of the promotion season when we finished as Champions of division 4.

There was a loud cheer from the crowd when they were switched on, as Belle Vue was seen under bright floodlights for the first time ever.

Rovers won 4-0 !
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: RoversDave on December 03, 2015, 07:18:28 am
I remember the old lights but never saw them switched on.

I first saw Belle Vue lit-up on the 24th Aug 1965, against Hartlepools United on a tuesday night. It was the start of the promotion season when we finished as Champions of division 4.

There was a loud cheer from the crowd when they were switched on, as Belle Vue was seen under bright floodlights for the first time ever.

Rovers won 4-0 !

Just read those new lights cost £15,000. It had also rained heavily for three hours up to ko time. Have you dried out yet BB?
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Bentley Bullet on December 03, 2015, 07:59:36 am
I was in the Pop side stand Dave,  so was dry during the match.

The rain enhanced the occasion  by causing the whole ground to glisten with the brilliant (at the time) lights!
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Donnywolf on December 03, 2015, 09:04:45 am
The original lights were in use then as that is when we played the friendlies against the foreign sides. At that time we were the only team in the North ( I think) that had lights.

 As lights they were a waste of time, also, they could only be a certain height because of the Airfield next to the ground being still operational for small aircraft.

Yes and later on the new Lights had Red Lights on the top so as to be visible to Doncaster Airport traffic

In addition Bob Monkhouse on Celebrity Squares was asked " Which is the only Football Club that has Red Lights on its Floodlights" and the bugger got it ! As usual he was allowed a joke answer or two beforehand and of course referred to the Red Light angle
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Bentley Bullet on December 03, 2015, 09:16:02 am
Yes Wolfie, I remember falling out of my cot laughing at that!
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: wilts rover on December 03, 2015, 06:19:06 pm
Interestingly that reading the report on the Hibs game, we appear to have played in orange.

(http://)
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Dagenham Rover on December 03, 2015, 06:23:59 pm
"Gordon Smith dropped out of Scots side as the result of a knee twist he suffered at Newcastle the previous afternoon"

Two games in two days!  just imagine the modern footballers being made to play 2 in 2 days   :blink:
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: wilts rover on December 03, 2015, 06:37:48 pm
The first competitive game under lights should have been a Third Round FA Cup tie against Forest on 7th January 1956. However despite the FA giving the go ahead, it was Forest who refused to play, as they had only ever played two games under lights, whereas we of course had been playing floodlit matches for four years.

(http://)
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Donnywolf on December 03, 2015, 07:18:51 pm
Yes Wolfie, I remember falling out of my cot laughing at that!

I also seem to remember a joke answer to the question of "who stops 1 in 2" and he said Doncaster Rovers goalkeeper .. and at the time we had Dennis Peacock Super Keeper but I don't remember any more than that

I did laugh at one other question .... Which Country has the worlds largest Airline ? easy BM said ... Russia which is ironic because nobody is allowed to go anywhere !!! 
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Sammy Chung was King on December 04, 2015, 02:31:21 am
Jimmy Hill, i remember watching him on match of the day, not being very impressed, he seemed out of touch with the game at the time he was commenting.
But since they i have learned that he had a big hand in player wages rising, he was a good footballer, had a decent career, and also ran the line at a game when the reserve linesman was injured, as well as the original linesman, if i am remembering right?.
It sounds like he had a good career in football, very sad for him to be ill like he is now.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: NickDRFC on December 04, 2015, 04:38:51 am
Joining you in going off on a tangent, I read this a couple of weeks ago, an excellent article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/12007208/Jimmy-Hills-heartbreaking-battle-with-Alzheimers-brings-tears-and-laughter.html
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Donnywolf on December 04, 2015, 06:17:34 am
Jimmy Hill, i remember watching him on match of the day, not being very impressed, he seemed out of touch with the game at the time he was commenting.
But since they i have learned that he had a big hand in player wages rising, he was a good footballer, had a decent career, and also ran the line at a game when the reserve linesman was injured, as well as the original linesman, if i am remembering right?.
It sounds like he had a good career in football, very sad for him to be ill like he is now.

My Dad had several "sayings" "edicts" on Football that he rolled out at every opportunity

Never judge a Player on one appearance

If a Penalty taker misses the  target I would fine him a weeks wages

... but the one I will always believe in was "when they take the Maximum wage away in Football it will ruin the game" Jimmy Hill helped do that as you say and my Dad would not have been happy because although his view was a little simplistic I think by and large I could say he was right !
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Iberian Red on December 04, 2015, 11:08:11 am
I met Jimmy Hill at Darlington (late 80s/early 90s?) in the players lounge after Darlo had played Fulham. I'd gone up to see a mate (local lad/ex Rover,see if you can guess who), and we chatted together for about twenty minutes.
Here's the clue to the identity of the player...
Jimmy Hill had all of us in stitches when he swore that the player in question was an absolute double for Stanley Baxter!
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: The Red Baron on December 04, 2015, 11:20:26 am
Jimmy Hill, i remember watching him on match of the day, not being very impressed, he seemed out of touch with the game at the time he was commenting.
But since they i have learned that he had a big hand in player wages rising, he was a good footballer, had a decent career, and also ran the line at a game when the reserve linesman was injured, as well as the original linesman, if i am remembering right?.
It sounds like he had a good career in football, very sad for him to be ill like he is now.

In the 70s he was very much at the cutting edge of how football was shown on TV. He left Coventry City, where he'd been arguably their greatest manager, to work for ITV and he revolutionised their coverage.

The 1970 World Cup, where he gathered together a panel of opinionated ex-pros like Derek Dougan and Paddy Crerand really marked the birth of the football pundit.

But he was of his time and by the 80s his style and opinions on the game had become outdated and that's probably when you saw him, Sammy. Football pundits, like managers, have a shelf life. That's why Gary Neville was right to turn down a five year deal with Sky and have a crack at management. In five years his schtick would have been as wearisome as Alan Hansen's became.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: graingrover on December 04, 2015, 11:24:05 am
I think the previous maximum wage ( prior to the J Hill George Eastman breakthrough) had been £20 a week at a time when my parents bought a semi in Boundary Avenue Wheatley Hills for £2,000.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: ravenrover on December 04, 2015, 12:02:32 pm
It was sad  in the end watching him chair Morning Supplement on Sky as 1 of the reporters acted as his prompter. In the end they stood him down
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: The Red Baron on December 04, 2015, 12:04:11 pm
That's right, Brian. If you go back to, say, the early 50s then the maximum wage was on a par or slightly above that which a skilled worker would earn. But it failed to keep up with inflation, so by the time of abolition professional footballers were comparatively poorly paid.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Iberian Red on December 04, 2015, 12:12:52 pm
Another paper clipping from around 53ish?
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: idler on December 04, 2015, 12:25:20 pm
Joining you in going off on a tangent, I read this a couple of weeks ago, an excellent article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/12007208/Jimmy-Hills-heartbreaking-battle-with-Alzheimers-brings-tears-and-laughter.html
[/quote
You can't believe that in the picture it is called  The Rocoh arena.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: RedRover45 on December 04, 2015, 06:57:46 pm
I met Jimmy Hill at Darlington (late 80s/early 90s?) in the players lounge after Darlo had played Fulham. I'd gone up to see a mate (local lad/ex Rover,see if you can guess who), and we chatted together for about twenty minutes.
Here's the clue to the identity of the player...
Jimmy Hill had all of us in stitches when he swore that the player in question was an absolute double for Stanley Baxter!
I met Jimmy Hill at Darlington (late 80s/early 90s?) in the players lounge after Darlo had played Fulham. I'd gone up to see a mate (local lad/ex Rover,see if you can guess who), and we chatted together for about twenty minutes.
Here's the clue to the identity of the player...
Jimmy Hill had all of us in stitches when he swore that the player in question was an absolute double for Stanley Baxter!

Steve Gaughan ?
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Iberian Red on December 04, 2015, 08:29:32 pm
You've got it!
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: drfchound on December 04, 2015, 10:24:28 pm
I remember the old lights but never saw them switched on.

I first saw Belle Vue lit-up on the 24th Aug 1965, against Hartlepools United on a tuesday night. It was the start of the promotion season when we finished as Champions of division 4.

There was a loud cheer from the crowd when they were switched on, as Belle Vue was seen under bright floodlights for the first time ever.

Rovers won 4-0 !

Just read those new lights cost £15,000. It had also rained heavily for three hours up to ko time. Have you dried out yet BB?




It was also John Nicholsons final game at BV.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: idler on December 04, 2015, 11:55:16 pm
John Nicholson died in August or September 1966. We had played about two or three league games when he was in the car crash.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Bentley Bullet on December 05, 2015, 12:17:57 am
Nicholson died on September 3, 1966, in Doncaster
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Sammy Chung was King on December 05, 2015, 01:28:01 am
Jimmy Hill, i remember watching him on match of the day, not being very impressed, he seemed out of touch with the game at the time he was commenting.
But since they i have learned that he had a big hand in player wages rising, he was a good footballer, had a decent career, and also ran the line at a game when the reserve linesman was injured, as well as the original linesman, if i am remembering right?.
It sounds like he had a good career in football, very sad for him to be ill like he is now.

My Dad had several "sayings" "edicts" on Football that he rolled out at every opportunity

Never judge a Player on one appearance

If a Penalty taker misses the  target I would fine him a weeks wages

... but the one I will always believe in was "when they take the Maximum wage away in Football it will ruin the game" Jimmy Hill helped do that as you say and my Dad would not have been happy because although his view was a little simplistic I think by and large I could say he was right !

By the sound of it your dad had high standards, and expected them to be met, going on the penalty opinion. He was thinking by the sound of it, that if they can't score from twelve yards after all that practice, then there was no excuse.
Judging a player on one appearance, is not usually a good thing to do, but sometimes a player just the way he takes the ball, the amount of space he makes, the brain he has for seeing a pass, sometimes you don't need to see him again.
But if he has a bad game, it could just be an offday, by not going back to look again that's how clubs miss out sometimes.

He was right on the maximum wage, because obscene amounts of money are given to players who haven't achieved a lot. When two minutes ago they hardly had any money. They don't strive to do better any more, they lose the edge that got them there in the first place.
But there isn't a right answer to it really, before the directors were pocketing more of the gate receipts, instead of the guys the supporter paid to watch.
I think there needs to be plenty of ex players working in the game who can advise of the pitfalls, a restriction on flat money deals, incentivise their pay, that for me is how you get the best from them.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Donnywolf on December 05, 2015, 06:54:01 am
Yes ... he would have been chuffed to be proved right on the Max Wage ... and if he is looking down today he will be expecting me to go to watch Wolves on his behalf today at RUFC !

The Penalty view of his was that footballers especially the Pros should never miss the actually Target. He did not mind if the Penalty was saved by the Keeper - in his view it just HAD to be between the sticks and under the Bar
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: drfchound on December 05, 2015, 07:30:05 pm
John Nicholson died in August or September 1966. We had played about two or three league games when he was in the car crash.




Yes you are correct Idler.
It is funny how the memory plays tricks.
I should have know better because earlier this year I sold three programmes on eBay to members of the Nicholson family.
I had listed the match programme from the Rovers v Liverpool John Nicholson Memorial match and they bought it.
After further chats with them I also sent them the programme from Johns' last match at BV  and the programme from the first home game after his death in which there was a special tribute to him.
We had won the first two matches of that first season in Division Three and won a cup game against Bradford after a drawn game at Valley Parade but the car crash robbed us of John Nicholson for ever and the services of Alick for lots of games as well as a third player who I seem to remember was John Wylie.
Alick was out of the team until December and in his first home game back in the team he scored a hat trick against Peterborough.
A point of interest is that George Best played for the Rovers in the JN Memorial game.
I was 14 at the time.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Donnywolf on December 05, 2015, 07:46:14 pm
Yes that made me 15 and a half. I lived then in Stainy and opposite a Fireman who worked at Donny FS now Whitbys of course

He was always winding me up with stories I found were not true so as I went to School that morning I met him just coming home. He told me that JN had been killed in a Car Crash and AJ was with him. Course I did not believe him and the more he repeated the story and added more details I just became more and more convinced he was telling Porkies !

How I wish he had been - as Nicko was a tremendous Player and no doubt a great bloke. After his death I think we shipped many goals through the Season and lost a few games by shipping 6 Goals. There was at least one x 6-0 ? QPR I think it was but by then I did not care - we had lost a great Player
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: drfchound on December 05, 2015, 07:52:58 pm
Oxford away was a 6-1 defeat after the 6-0 at QPR.
We also lost 4-0 at home to Darlington.
Of course we were relegated at the end of that season.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Juddy on December 05, 2015, 07:53:40 pm
I was 12 when John died in the car crash and remember at the next or next but one game at Belle Vue a blanket was carried around the edge of the pitch which people threw two bobs half crowns and shillings in. My mates and I went on the pitch and walked round following the blanket picking up coins which had missed and chucking them in.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Bentley Bullet on December 05, 2015, 08:01:34 pm
The first report of the accident I got was that John Nicholson had been killed, and Alick Jeffrey had lost an arm. I was also told that winger Paul Durrant was in the car with them, but like Jeffrey's reported injury, it was found to be untrue.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: Donny Dub on December 07, 2015, 08:21:43 pm
I was at this match Jimmy Hill scored 5 goals against us that day.  Johnny Haynes and Mel's Charles ( John Charles' brother) also played for Fulham.  I cannot remember the kick off time but Jimmy Hill was banging them in in daylight and I walked home in the dark!
Good luck!
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: BobG on December 07, 2015, 11:31:24 pm
Good Lord DD!!

My Dad was at that match too. He used to tell me the story, on a reasonably regular basis, of Jimmy Hill banging in 5 at BV for Fulham that day - and some wag in the crowd getting mighty fed up with it and bellowing 'Get that bloody billy goat of the pitch!'

I suppose that will mean nowt to at least half the folk on here now.....

Cheers

BobG
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: tommy toes on December 07, 2015, 11:32:51 pm
Is there anyone alive who attended our last competetive game against Stoke?
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: newyankee on December 08, 2015, 01:41:54 am
Dear Tommy toes,

 It doesn't take a genius to work out that if we all were at the Fulham game in 1958 then the same people were at the Stoke game in 1960.  There was not a plethera of 10 to 14 year old's who supported Rovers dying in those two years.

Please read this thread from the beginning.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: newyankee on December 08, 2015, 01:47:55 am
Actually there are more posts from people who were not at the Fulham game, however there will be a list of people who were old enough to be art that game and still alive, it was only 55 years ago and in those days 9 and 10 year old's went on their own, although most were accompanied by Dad.  Wait for the explosion.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: tommy toes on December 08, 2015, 10:08:09 am
Oops sorry New Yankee. I've been supporting Rovers since 1960 and for the life of me couldn't recall us ever playing Stoke. So I looked at a Stoke site which said we last played them in 1930.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: tommy toes on December 08, 2015, 10:22:10 am
...and I've read the thread again and as far as I can see there's no mention of the Stoke game.
No need to patronise me either NW.

Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: newyankee on December 08, 2015, 11:55:36 am
The original thread was about the Fulham game in 1958 and I thought more said they were there. Reading again there were follow ups from people about the lights. You did not mention 1960 when you asked your question only the last time we played them.

I do think a lot of people will say they were at the League Cup game  as it was not that long ago relatively speaking. Stoke haven't always been in the top flight either.

I was not patronizing just answering your question. I did notice how the subject changed from Jimmy Hill, to Floodlights to John Nicholson, funny how that happens.
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: RoversDave on December 10, 2015, 11:52:00 am
John Nicholson died in August or September 1966. We had played about two or three league games when he was in the car crash.




Yes you are correct Idler.
It is funny how the memory plays tricks.
I should have know better because earlier this year I sold three programmes on eBay to members of the Nicholson family.
I had listed the match programme from the Rovers v Liverpool John Nicholson Memorial match and they bought it.
After further chats with them I also sent them the programme from Johns' last match at BV  and the programme from the first home game after his death in which there was a special tribute to him.
We had won the first two matches of that first season in Division Three and won a cup game against Bradford after a drawn game at Valley Parade but the car crash robbed us of John Nicholson for ever and the services of Alick for lots of games as well as a third player who I seem to remember was John Wylie.
Alick was out of the team until December and in his first home game back in the team he scored a hat trick against Peterborough.
A point of interest is that George Best played for the Rovers in the JN Memorial game.
I was 14 at the time.



(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee376/Davosthorne/player%2065-66%20jn1%20copy_zpsqg4zgvqp.jpg) (http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/Davosthorne/media/player%2065-66%20jn1%20copy_zpsqg4zgvqp.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Question for our older supporters 1958
Post by: idler on December 10, 2015, 03:22:12 pm
What a player he was. He reminded me of a poor man's Bobby Moore and I don't mean that disrespectfully. He was like Steve Nichol, always having time and very assured on the ball. He was a joy to watch.