Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Rich_The_Conisbrough_Rover on June 11, 2016, 03:54:23 pm
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Spot the middle one and the badge, anyone here?
https://mobile.twitter.com/theawayfans/status/741628919690985472
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What for though, the logic defies me.
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plenty more trouble today, mostly sounds like the Russians have waded in.
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Who says they're Russian?
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No, he's not on here but he is on the Facebook group. I've been I touch and he's safe and well.
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What a horrible 3 days it's been, can't believe Russia got the World Cup, their fans are disgusting, provoking the English and the media are making a meal of it personally, if you get fireworks thrown at you and chairs thrown your going to retaliate back.
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What a horrible 3 days it's been, can't believe Russia got the World Cup, their fans are disgusting, provoking the English and the media are making a meal of it personally, if you get fireworks thrown at you and chairs thrown your going to retaliate back.
Wrong
The thing to do is walk away and let the riot police do their job
Otherwise the headlines will all be anti English and their may be consequences for the national team
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Russian 'ultras' and French locals clashing too. It's always the same though isn't it. England's fault.
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I can understand most media taking the biased tack on blaming for the violence, but for the UK media to do it stinks.
I also wonder if the flags were borrowed or even bought off the English fans for prime prices for the kudos photo opportunity.
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I think France, has gone through enough recently, with the terrorists problems, i don't think it's too much to ask, for all countries fans to behave.
I am obviously not seeing things myself, only on the news, i'm sure innocent people are being dragged into things. But also we have our own minority, who think a game without trouble, isn't a game.
No wonder we are seen as ignorant and not liked, throughout the world, because the other countries think we are all like that!.
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The BBC are doing their very best to report that everything is down to the English. I know of quite few people over there and their view is completely different.
The establishment need to make England fans look far worse so it helps their case to keep us sat down in dull, sanitised conditions and keep the safe standing idea at bay.
It's about control. Make it look like that our fans are out of control so that strengthens their case to keep us under control.
A very small minority are getting involved yes, but there are between 30 and 40k England fans over there at the moment.
Don't believe everything you read.
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The BBC are doing their very best to report that everything is down to the English. I know of quite few people over there and their view is completely different.
The establishment need to make England fans look far worse so it helps their case to keep us sat down in dull, sanitised conditions and keep the safe standing idea at bay.
It's about control. Make it look like that our fans are out of control so that strengthens their case to keep us under control.
A very small minority are getting involved yes, but there are between 30 and 40k England fans over there at the moment.
Don't believe everything you read.
I was just going to post the same, it's not just the BBC, it's most of the UK media, it's clear from the pictures that this is well organised by the Russians, alot of them have their clubs name on the back of their black t shirts, I saw Locomotiv Moscow on alot of the shirts.
And Russia are hosting the next World Cup!
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Doesn't suit the media narrative. That always sees England fans as aggressors, not victims.
I'm sure some of our lot have behaved badly, but the violence inside the stadium was clearly not due to England fans.
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I've read a lot of Russians there are ex military looking for a scrap. It's certainly a well organised and targeted approach they've took, and they don't give a shit.
The next round of games midweek have disaster written all over them.
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Russia play Slovakia 25 miles away from where England play Wales thats a powder keg situation for sure
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Was speaking to my mate who's over there this morning. He said there's a hell of a lot of fans seriously thinking of coming home. He's never seen anything like it in the 20+ years he's followed England. In his own words, it was like a total set up, we were just singing n dancing outside this pub when they appeared from nowhere. The police covered every exit in n out, only one way in but they just appeared from a side street.They had knives metal post proper tooled up and just seem to be after the flags. Think they use them as trophies. But the worst was in the ground. French police are supposed to be on high alert yet how come a Russian took a flare gun into the ground and fired it into the England supporters.
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The reports I am reading are of organised Russian gangs and Marseilles ultras looking for trouble with England fans and largely not finding it. You could tell from near enough every video posted that a certain group of England fans were at the same pub even two days in advance. The owners of that pub have come and said England fans didn't start the trouble.
What I find absolutely disgusting is the comments of Andy Burnham, a man who should know something about mis-representing the behaviour of fans, who decided to come out and condemn England fans before he even had any grasp of what was going on. The slimey cock bag. Absolute scum.
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Yeah. How appalling of the BBC to question the propriety of FIFA, eh? Bunch of agenda-driven idiots...
I'll admit, I've had little dealing with England fans on the road for more than a decade. Last time I went to Wembley to see and England match was two decades back and I had the pleasure of being sat behind a woman with two kids who spent the whole match shouting racist abuse at opposition fans. During Euro 2002, I stupidly took a flight to Brussels for work and had an hour and a half on board with 40 England fans who were the biggest set of scum I have ever experienced. Fighting with each other over the ale cart. Abusing the flight crew. Using mobile phones on the plane to check with their mates already in Holland if they'd "managed to knife a f**king Turk yet?"
In Cologne in 2006, the fanzone was a joy to be present in. Friendly mixing of fans from all over the globe. Until England played in Stuttgart and the Heumarkt was full of thousands of bristling English fans with an insular, boorish attitude and an air of latent menace. There was no trouble, but equally, there was no bloody fun.
I'm sure it's all calmed down since then, but see, if you accept and export that sort of culture for decades, it's hardly surprising that the big lads from other countries will see you as a target, no matter how much you might have changed.
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It took Russian fans visibly rushing England fans into a potentially mass fatal stampede and crush against a fence for the BBC to finally stop reporting that England fans were creating the trouble.
It's shocking really how the truth can stop being reported based on past prejudices.
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BST, I've got no doubts at all that there will be English dick heads out there but there are now loads of stories and video evidence where "normal" fans are being targeted and cornered, some watching the football inside bars or others having lunch outside and then the Police roll up a few minutes later firing tear gas at the English.
I find if strange how the Ultras and Russian gangs seem to find a "side street" that the police have seemingly forgotten about and a free for all ensues.
I can't help but think that this is a plot to get English clubs banned from European competition again.
Something doesn't smell right to me and I can't place it.
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Rigo
As someone involved in journalism, I'd have thought you wouldn't need telling that one person expressing a view that chimes with another person does not mean that either persons' views are necessarily correct.
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This is not 'normal hooligans', this is something much more sinister. In all my years of following England away I haven't seen anything quite like this, the Russians are tooled up, knives, chair legs and anything else they can get their hands on. They're wearing balaclavas and black shirts as a kind of para military style uniform and are attacking indiscriminately. Women, children, people of any age and of any nationality seem to be fair game whilst the French Police watch from a distance before responding with tear gas to break things up. What happens then of course is people escape down side roads and alleys to be picked off by the waiting Ultras.
Sorry France but you have no idea how to organise a tournament. Putting England and Russia in the same group was bad luck, having them in Marseilles was bad planning. And on Thursday we meet Wales in Lens, a town too small to accept the 60,000 English who are out here so the advice from the French is to stay in Lille. And who plays in Lille on Wednesday? The Russians and Slovakia. Oh dear.
Oh, and to cap it all last night how did the French react after the game? Simple, close down the metro, shut the bars by the port, no taxis or buses on the streets and scared vulnerable people left to try and make their way back to their accommodation. Well done.
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It was not the England section the Russian lads rushed, it was a family stand full of English Russian and french family's. The Russian mob train themselves in para military and cage fighting it was on a documentary a couple of years ago hostes by Ross kemp,
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It won't stop till they throw out the offending country and there fans
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Another eye-witness.
https://threeofclubsblog.wordpress.com/2016/06/12/first-blog-post/
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This is not 'normal hooligans', this is something much more sinister. In all my years of following England away I haven't seen anything quite like this, the Russians are tooled up, knives, chair legs and anything else they can get their hands on. They're wearing balaclavas and black shirts as a kind of para military style uniform and are attacking indiscriminately. Women, children, people of any age and of any nationality seem to be fair game whilst the French Police watch from a distance before responding with tear gas to break things up. What happens then of course is people escape down side roads and alleys to be picked off by the waiting Ultras.
Sorry France but you have no idea how to organise a tournament. Putting England and Russia in the same group was bad luck, having them in Marseilles was bad planning. And on Thursday we meet Wales in Lens, a town too small to accept the 60,000 English who are out here so the advice from the French is to stay in Lille. And who plays in Lille on Wednesday? The Russians and Slovakia. Oh dear.
Oh, and to cap it all last night how did the French react after the game? Simple, close down the metro, shut the bars by the port, no taxis or buses on the streets and scared vulnerable people left to try and make their way back to their accommodation. Well done.
Most of them are believed to be ex military and it was organised a long time ago
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Given the widespread use of military trained 'civilian' agent provocateurs in the Ukraine and elsewhere, I do just wonder what, if any, political gain might arise, and for whom, from this behaviour?
It's probably complete rubbish, but the affairs of the world these days do make me wonder a bit.
BobG
PS Just seen yours Mr Frost. Have you got any links for that? Please?!
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Just read that if Russia win the group they could potentially play Ukraine. Very long shot but it's possible.
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I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if these Russian are in some way in collusion with the Russian government. The French police chief has already said they aren't known or regular hooligans.
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Well, it'd serve Putin's interests if this whipped up anti-European feeling in England ahead of the referendum...
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Well, it'd serve Putin's interests if this whipped up anti-European feeling in England ahead of the referendum...
More likely to whip up anti Russian feeling once the truth emerges.
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I see the locals in Nice have been attacking both Polish and Northern Irish fans.
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TRB
You've got folk saying they are going to vote Leave because of Afghan immigrants. I think you're expecting a bit much of some voters' powers of discrimination.
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Both FAs have been warned of possible disqualification if the violence continues according to Sky Sports.
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Given the widespread use of military trained 'civilian' agent provocateurs in the Ukraine and elsewhere, I do just wonder what, if any, political gain might arise, and for whom, from this behaviour?
It's probably complete rubbish, but the affairs of the world these days do make me wonder a bit.
BobG
PS Just seen yours Mr Frost. Have you got any links for that? Please?!
A couple of Tweets is all really. Although they are clearly very organised and fearless, considering how outnumbered they seem to be on video evidence
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Ok. Thanks Mr Frost.
It's an interesting line of thought....
Well, it'd serve Putin's interests if this whipped up anti-European feeling in England ahead of the referendum...
More likely to whip up anti Russian feeling once the truth emerges.
Unlikely John I think. Even though we all know what happened to that airliner over the Ukraine a couple of years ago, the Russians continue to stone wall and the world hasn't got the guts to make a fuss. Why would anyone make a fuss about something as, apparently, relatively trivial as this? (I'm not saying this would be trivial btw. Just that it would look so)
In fact, I'm sure you remember that Korean airliner packed with passengers that the Russians shot out of the sky in the mid/late 1980's. Funny how little fuss there was about that too.
No. The Russians have developed a way of waging war that involves very little risk to the Rodina, irritates the hell out of the opposition and which the world is pretty much unable to counteract. That will change, one day, but for now, the Russians have got us all dancing to their tune. That's one of the reasons why I wonder about this little excitement. I suspect the Russians are, and have been, practising very hard for quite some time now. At a guess, I think a decision to emigrate to one of the Baltic states might be a serious mistake.
Bob
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Why is it that most othe countries are unable to organise a football tournament.
How on earth can you have Russian and English in a stadium with no gap down the middle and a solid line of stewards down each side?
This just would not happen here would it? They couldn't organise a .... .. In a brewery.
Next World Cup in Russia, God help us.
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To be totally accurate, that far stand occupied by the Russians which had England supporters in it, wasn't the official England section. It was meant to be a neutral area filled with ticket holders who'd acquired tickets through the UEFA portal. Admittedly it was overall England support but these wouldn't have been the regular England support more a casual following and people without a lot of tournament experience. If you check the pictures you'll see quite a few children and women in amongst those, plus French families who just happen to be wearing England shirts.
The 'official' England section was at the other end of the stadium and if they'd have charged at that end then the outcome would have been completely different. I dread to think of the carnage that would have ensued, there were no Police inside the stadium at all, mostly female stewards and volunteers.
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Is the feeling this was just targeting the England fans/match or are Wales going to be in for similar treatment?
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Why is it that most othe countries are unable to organise a football tournament.
How on earth can you have Russian and English in a stadium with no gap down the middle and a solid line of stewards down each side?
This just would not happen here would it? They couldn't organise a .... .. In a brewery.
Next World Cup in Russia, God help us.
People are banging on about segregation, but if you go to any top ground in this country where rivals fans are in the same stand, it's just the same - some black netting over seats, a sterile zone which consists of a dozen or so seats, then maybe a row of stewards and the opposition fans.
Similar segregation may/may not have been there in the Stade Velodrome, but if you get d**kheads hell bent on causing chaos - and they out-number stewards, you're going to be up against it.
The police should have been inside the stadium - why they wouldn't be for a match like this anyway, especially given two days of trouble beforehand, is at best baffling, if not incompetent on the French's police's behalf. Even then, however, with the coppers inside the stadium, it may not have been enough - if the Russians were just hell-bent on carrying out an attack.
Staggeringly, something which seems to have been virtually completely overlooked is that one Russian fan got on the pitch at the end of the game. It's a good job his 'mates' didn't follow him on, otherwise there's every probability the England players would have been attacked.
Yes but there was no netting or line of stewards. Do the French not know about these Russian thugs who are hell bent on causing mayhem?
Total incompetence, and if they ( Russia ) cause any more mayhem the must be expelled from the tournament immediately. They have to sort out their hooligan problem before 2018
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Oh how silly of me, of course UEFA won't do anything of the sort it is England supporters causing the problems! Call me a cynic but thats what they will want to think.
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UEFA will probably liaise with FIFA and ban Russia from the next World Cup qualifying campaign...
They don't need to qualify because there hosting it. Madness, it will be a month a pure Carneige
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UEFA will probably liaise with FIFA and ban Russia from the next World Cup qualifying campaign...
They don't need to qualify because there hosting it. Madness, it will be a month a pure Carneige
I think that was Rigo's point.
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Note how despite there being clear involvement from Russian, English and French, there is no suggestion that France would be thrown out of the competition.
I also think it's time to realise that it's not the fault of the countries in the competition but of the governments of those countries in not dealing with their hoolies, and of the home country in not mopping them up when they are in their country.
Its not like it's hard to identify many of those involved as initial aggressors in this, stick them in a cage for a month and whatever else. Were there any arrests in the ground for example?
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Thinking ahead - what chance of USA and Russia being in the same group?!
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The absolute bell ends that follow england deserve all they get, always giving it the big I am. No surrender, 10 Germans bombers, lad bible generic Herbert's. The World Cup in Russia will be on another level from this in marseille, let's see how brave these goons who congregate outside Irish bars and then sing anti ira songs are then.
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The absolute bell ends that follow england deserve all they get, always giving it the big I am. No surrender, 10 Germans bombers, lad bible generic Herbert's. The World Cup in Russia will be on another level from this in marseille, let's see how brave these goons who congregate outside Irish bars and then sing anti ira songs are then.
Personally I don't even subscribe to the national anthem, but there's a huge difference between taunting/songs and physical violence. Plus you make the numpty mistake of not distinguishing between "bell ends that follow england" and the few who may be on the look out for a ruck.
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2 days of giving it the big I am, then getting absolutely smashed by some proper lads. Quality. No surrender ha ha.
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Yes, these 'proper lads' showed how big and tough they are running across the neutral stand that was full of families with children. Interesting they didn't try getting into the allocated England end. Pity the hard lads of every country don't join together and give these Russian ultras a good sorting out.
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Yes, these 'proper lads' showed how big and tough they are running across the neutral stand that was full of families with children. Interesting they didn't try getting into the allocated England end. Pity the hard lads of every country don't join together and give these Russian ultras a good sorting out.
they scattered everything insight, inside the ground outside the ground and in the city. Trust me these were organised lads, the England of old could of lived with them. However banning orders and people just growing up have put paid to that. God help anybody going to Russia for wc2018.....
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2 days of giving it the big I am, then getting absolutely smashed by some proper lads. Quality. No surrender ha ha.
Are you Scottish?
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There are some very strange comments on this thread - the Russian government sending their army over to France in disguise as football hooligans to beat up a few drunken English blokes, really! Isn't the last line of this piece closer to the truth:
Dasha Timofeeva, 27, a Russia fan who was at the game with her father, Viktor, said the event had been poorly policed, and she was ashamed of the behaviour of some of her compatriots.
“We are of course sorry to the English who got hurt, but please believe us that not all Russian people are like these hooligans,” she said. “There is a hooligan sub-culture in Russia and sorry but there is nothing us fans can do about that.
“We were very surprised that there were no police in the stadium. Why not? In Russia the police are very strong and keep the hooligans in control. There was no control in the stadium last night.
“But also, the English fans were not kind either. My father and I were in the Old Port and had to run away from the bottles and gas. Other England supporters said sorry to us. So both countries have good and bad people at football matches.”
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/12/russian-hooligans-savage-organised-england-fans-marseille-euro-2016
If anyone is 'responsible' then surely it is the organisers for not foreesing the potential for trouble = and not having an adequate plan to deal with any that broke out.
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One of Locomotiv Moscow's ultra groups seem to be the main instigators Orel Butchers, theres loads on youtube about them, incidently another one of Locomotivs ultra groups is called the Vikings
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Worth remembering this next time someone sings the praises of "Ultras." Basically Ultra is just another word for hooligans.
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One of Locomotiv Moscow's ultra groups seem to be the main instigators Orel Butchers, theres loads on youtube about them, incidently another one of Locomotivs ultra groups is called the Vikings
they teamed up with Cska moscow and a small moscow team. Then you had the main lot that were spartak moscow and red star belgrade. Also throw in the zenit group and small pockets of 20/30 from the lower league clubs. As I said earlier very, very well organised and extremely violent, they don't drink and most are m.m.a fighters/ex forces. f**k me they even had gum shields in!!!
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One of Locomotiv Moscow's ultra groups seem to be the main instigators Orel Butchers, theres loads on youtube about them, incidently another one of Locomotivs ultra groups is called the Vikings
they teamed up with Cska moscow and a small moscow team. Then you had the main lot that were spartak moscow and red star belgrade. Also throw in the zenit group and small pockets of 20/30 from the lower league clubs. As I said earlier very, very well organised and extremely violent, they don't drink and most are m.m.a fighters/ex forces. f**k me they even had gum shields in!!!
How do Red Star Belgrade tie in with the Russians?
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Part of the problem is Russia have done nothing to prevent their worst hooligans travelling to this event.
Hundreds of England based hooligans with fbos have had to surrender their passports to prevent em travelling.
Russia should never be in the euros.
Who on earth in their right might will trail there in 2018?
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Russians and Serbs are very close especially the various firms. Spartak moscow and red star belgrade are the orthodox brothers firm. Partizan belgrade are with cska moscow. There's loads of red star lads live in Paris aswell. If you're on twitter filo, you'll see there's a few pictures of the Serbs/Russians on their way to marseille, a good 200 of them.
As I say this was well organised and I tipped a few rovers fans off who follow england as early as December. I'll stick my neck out and say they'll be no trouble off the Russians now, they've done what they set out to do and won't see wales/Slovakia as any sort of 'scalp'. Just wait till World Cup 2018...... Another level that.
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Problem is, will England fans manage to contain themselves if they get anything other than a win against Wales.
let's be honest on the domestic front games between English and Welsh teams usually end in some sort of trouble, and have done for years. Cardiff, Swansea et al will all be represented in lens, it does not bode well does it? There will be Welsh idiots who will see an opportunity to goad English into trouble to get England disqualified.
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Problem is, will England fans manage to contain themselves if they get anything other than a win against Wales.
let's be honest on the domestic front games between English and Welsh teams usually end in some sort of trouble, and have done for years. Cardiff, Swansea et al will all be represented in lens, it does not bode well does it? There will be Welsh idiots who will see an opportunity to goad English into trouble to get England disqualified.
But you're still assuming that England has a hooligan problem. What evidence is there to support that?
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Problem is, will England fans manage to contain themselves if they get anything other than a win against Wales.
let's be honest on the domestic front games between English and Welsh teams usually end in some sort of trouble, and have done for years. Cardiff, Swansea et al will all be represented in lens, it does not bode well does it? There will be Welsh idiots who will see an opportunity to goad English into trouble to get England disqualified.
But you're still assuming the England has a hooligan problem. What evidence is there to support that?
Whats the general feeling in France Martin? Do England fans in general think there will be the same scenes on Thursday?
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The types you see outside these Irish pubs on England aways are what the press think are hooligans. Complete non events who get pissed, have a sing song and think they're absolutely nails. It's a complete myth that England has a hooligan problem. It's been and gone.
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Problem is, will England fans manage to contain themselves if they get anything other than a win against Wales.
let's be honest on the domestic front games between English and Welsh teams usually end in some sort of trouble, and have done for years. Cardiff, Swansea et al will all be represented in lens, it does not bode well does it? There will be Welsh idiots who will see an opportunity to goad English into trouble to get England disqualified.
But you're still assuming the England has a hooligan problem. What evidence is there to support that?
Whats the general feeling in France Martin? Do England fans in general think there will be the same scenes on Thursday?
The reports we've had suggest the 'hooligans' who appeared in the last few days days have already been spirited back to Russia, job done. So no.
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Problem is, will England fans manage to contain themselves if they get anything other than a win against Wales.
let's be honest on the domestic front games between English and Welsh teams usually end in some sort of trouble, and have done for years. Cardiff, Swansea et al will all be represented in lens, it does not bode well does it? There will be Welsh idiots who will see an opportunity to goad English into trouble to get England disqualified.
But you're still assuming the England has a hooligan problem. What evidence is there to support that?
Whats the general feeling in France Martin? Do England fans in general think there will be the same scenes on Thursday?
The reports we've had suggest the 'hooligans' who appeared in the last few days days have already been spirited back to Russia, job done. So no.
Sounds and looks all very sinister to me
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100% correct silent majority. Done and dusted and counting down the days till wc2018. Grim days ahead.
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There are some very strange comments on this thread - the Russian government sending their army over to France in disguise as football hooligans to beat up a few drunken English blokes, really! Isn't the last line of this piece closer to the truth:
Firstly no one really said that.
Secondly, go take a look at the actions and words of Vitaly Mutko. Go and have a read of Russian state media. Ask yourself how this group of 200/300 got into France and got tickets for the tournament when supposed checks were meant to be in place (and how they've now supposedly gotten out so easily). Situate that within the typical socio-economic capabilities of ordinary Russians. It's not like the Russian government is deeply entrenched in sport as politics is it? Like the state-corporate cronyism surrounding events such as Sochi and the drugs scandals surrounding athletics. Oh wait.
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Looking through the pictures online of this bother and all the Russians in the black t shirts were built like brick shithouses, all had well honed physiques, they definatly weren't the typical man in the street types
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Copps you're not a million miles away there. Let's just say this... They're 'very very unlikely' to face any punishment off the powers that be back home if they're identified has bieng involved in disorder in marseille.
Filo, the lads of that locomotive firm(in black tops)have regularly turned up for organised fights with spartak moscow and been well outnumbered. Let's just say they held their own!!
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Russia is a gangster state these days. The place is riven with violence. Putin actively consorts with gangs of freelancers who have taken part in fighting in Ukraine and ridden to Berlin to celebrate the Soviet victory over Germany.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/putins-angels-how-russias-night-wolves-biker-gang-spread-kremlins-gospel-fists-bullets-1503499
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/29/russian-biker-gang-in-ukraine-night-wolves-putin
The organised trouble in Marseilles is not something that Russia will be ashamed of. The hierarchy in Russia actively encourages it. They exist by showing the Russian people that they are not to be f**ked around by the West any more, after 2 decades of humiliation. No one will be prosecuted. No one will be banned. This violence may or may not have been officially sanctioned, but is certainly won't be officially punished. It is how Russia works. Bully and intimidate on every single level.
Russia isn't a normal state like the ones in the West. It is f**king terrifying. We whine about the EU and totally miss the point of the real threat further to the East.
Talk about what might or might not happen in 2018 is totally missing the point. If the worst it gets is a few people getting chinned in a bar, we should think ourselves lucky. The real thing to wake up panicking about in the middle of the night is what happens when the likes of these are set loose in the NATO Baltic states. Which WILL happen sometime between now and me retiring.
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Nailed it there billy.
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The types you see outside these Irish pubs on England aways are what the press think are hooligans. Complete non events who get pissed, have a sing song and think they're absolutely nails. It's a complete myth that England has a hooligan problem. It's been and gone.
Hoover said that about organised crime.
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In Romanian press, are some articles, and the russians say they have come to France just to show to english hooligans how to fight. The russians say they are the real hooligans, because they fight only with fists, and not with bottles, tables etc
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In Romanian press, are some articles, and the russians say they have come to France just to show to english hooligans how to fight. The russians say they are the real hooligans, because they fight only with fists, and not with bottles, tables etc
They must think that chairs and tables are part of their fists then
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The local prosecutor seems to concur with a lot of what has been said by those on the spot.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36515213
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All these eastern teams have something to prove, about who are the top hooligans. As people have said, these Russians wear face masks, balaclavas, gumshields and are tooled up. They've had training camps for these lads, and they're probably all juiced up.
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The local prosecutor seems to concur with a lot of what has been said by those on the spot.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36515213
The bit of that article that disturbs me is this:
But Russian MP Igor Lebedev criticised French police and called on Russian football fans to "keep up the good work".
"I see nothing wrong with football fans fighting. On the contrary, well done to our boys! Keep up the good work!" he tweeted.
"What happened in Marseille and other French cities is not the fans' fault. It is down to the police's inability to organise and hold such events," he wrote in a separate tweet the same day.
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Lebedev is from a far-right nationalist party. Idiots like him will make such statements. Shame BBC didn't provide context by saying he was such a knuckledragger.
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Lebedev is from a far-right nationalist party. Idiots like him will make such statements. Shame BBC didn't provide context by saying he was such a knuckledragger.
Thanks CBCB - I had guessed that, but hadn't checked. As you say lazy/unbalanced reporting
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Dutch
Apparently he's Vladimir Zhironovski's son...
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Dutch
Apparently he's Vladimir Zhironovski's son...
I stopped being lazy myself and checked after CBCB's post.
Nuff said
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Russia is a gangster state these days. The place is riven with violence.....
From everything I see that appears to be the case. Though practically every country in the world throughout history is the same, just not always so in your face but just the same, a power elite with soldiers/police/warriors to snap at anyone who may seriously disrupt their income streams. Here we have the polished benevolent Godmother Elizabeth.
I realise you are talking gangsters of the gross kind.
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Spoke to my mate this morning. Said their traveling up to Lens later today, glad to get out of Marseille as the gangs of French Ultras have been creating havoc looking for groups of English fans. Asked him about the Russians, he said they're on the beach and getting ready for the Poland game? Apparently their telling one n all they are "meeting up with their brothers from the Ukraine to sort out the filthy Poles".
He's also been told two England fans have been jailed over the fighting from the other night, not heard anything over here about it unless anyone can clarify.
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Spoke to my mate this morning. Said their traveling up to Lens later today, glad to get out of Marseille as the gangs of French Ultras have been creating havoc looking for groups of English fans. Asked him about the Russians, he said they're on the beach and getting ready for the Poland game? Apparently their telling one n all they are "meeting up with their brothers from the Ukraine to sort out the filthy Poles".
He's also been told two England fans have been jailed over the fighting from the other night, not heard anything over here about it unless anyone can clarify.
It's breaking news now about the English fans being jailed, not one Russian fan was arrested, it does look like one big set up to me
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I thought the Ukrainians were about as keen on Russians as the Poles were? Unless they all come from the Russophile parts of Ukraine.
Not a nice prospect but I suppose it keeps them away from the England fans.
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The local prosecutor seems to concur with a lot of what has been said by those on the spot.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36515213
The bit of that article that disturbs me is this:
But Russian MP Igor Lebedev criticised French police and called on Russian football fans to "keep up the good work".
"I see nothing wrong with football fans fighting. On the contrary, well done to our boys! Keep up the good work!" he tweeted.
"What happened in Marseille and other French cities is not the fans' fault. It is down to the police's inability to organise and hold such events," he wrote in a separate tweet the same day.
That man is also an executive member of the Russian Football Union UEFA and FIFA should be raising serious concerns about those comments from some one linked to the Russian game
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So England are threatened with expulsion from the tournament if our fans keep getting into bother.
I bet we will see some "England fans" smashing bars up and brawling when in reality they will be French lads in England shirts carrying some of the stolen flags.
Hodgsons' appeal has left the situation wide open for something like that to happen.
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.....Hodgsons' appeal has left the situation wide open for something like that to happen.
I think Hodgson was wise in making the appeal so as the "team" is then seen to be doing what it can, and kiss ass. Ignoring this, or simply blaming others, or worse, blaming FIFA/UAFA/French organisers would put the team bang in the firing line.
What does need to happen is to follow the matter up after the tournement, like with all barrels blazing, and for that to be backed up by the lacky of the establishment Cameron and our flakey media. A big ask, but if Carlsberg was Team England...
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I am not suggesting the appeal was the wrong thing to do, just that I think I see what is likely to happen as a result of it.
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It's a good job i am not president of france, because a few would be getting a metal suppository through the loaf, that would stop this trouble straight away.
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Kicking off in Lille now, Russian Ultras attacking England and Wales fans drinking peacfully together, apparently the England and Wales fans are sticking together
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Where've you heard this?
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Where've you heard this?
On SS News now
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It's all over twitter p pics and vids
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Just caught some of it. Appears to be the same story - England and Wales fans drinking in a pub not looking for trouble and these jumped up black t-shirt thugs have come looking it. Also noticed some restraint among the British supporters telling each other not to throw tables and chairs.
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The Russians backed off this time
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/euro-2016-violence-trouble-in-lille-as-england-and-wales-fans-jo/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_term=Autofeed#link_time=1465927101
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They're very naughty boys.
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Orel Butchers again, Locomotiv Moscow fans
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Glasbeys Butchers - Wilby Carr fans
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Flares set off by Russian fans inside the stadium today.
Will the authorities kick them out?
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Well it wasn't violence so presumably not.
Have to wonder how they got the flare in though with the supposed heightened security.
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Worth remembering this next time someone sings the praises of "Ultras." Basically Ultra is just another word for hooligans.
Based on this context you'd be right. But violence has never been part of the Ultra movement, the Ultras came about as colour/wearing fanatics so they didn't get branded as hooligans by the authorities as the hooligans had started to adopt a more low-key "casual" dress sense.
Obviously the roles have reversed and hooligans (as in those that want to fight and not pose for a group photo on Twitter) in European countries have realised being part of the Ultras movement means they go under the Police's radar.
In countries like Russia and Italy the Ultras have been hijacked and Ultras/Hooliganism mean the same thing, but that isn't the case across the entire continent.
An Ultra is someone who classes themself as a "Ultra-fan", nothing more.
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Just seen Stan collymores video looks like loads of England have ganged up and gone looking for Russians! Loads of em.
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More trouble again this evening, if UEFA want us out of the competition then tomorrow they have a referee who will come down hard on England so we won't win.
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Just seen Stan collymores video looks like loads of England have ganged up and gone looking for Russians! Loads of em.
England and Wales teaming up apparently
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If we lose tomorrow we will still go thru if we win monday
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Worth remembering this next time someone sings the praises of "Ultras." Basically Ultra is just another word for hooligans.
Based on this context you'd be right. But violence has never been part of the Ultra movement, the Ultras came about as colour/wearing fanatics so they didn't get branded as hooligans by the authorities as the hooligans had started to adopt a more low-key "casual" dress sense.
Obviously the roles have reversed and hooligans (as in those that want to fight and not pose for a group photo on Twitter) in European countries have realised being part of the Ultras movement means they go under the Police's radar.
In countries like Russia and Italy the Ultras have been hijacked and Ultras/Hooliganism mean the same thing, but that isn't the case across the entire continent.
An Ultra is someone who classes themself as a "Ultra-fan", nothing more.
A bit of light reading for you then Mr Frost
http://www.ultrasuk.co.uk/
http://beyondthefieldofplay.com/2013/11/11/3-substitutions-and-5-injuries-later/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249734017_Just_a_Few_RoguesFootball_Ultras_Clubs_and_Politics_in_Contemporary_Italy
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Worth remembering this next time someone sings the praises of "Ultras." Basically Ultra is just another word for hooligans.
Based on this context you'd be right. But violence has never been part of the Ultra movement, the Ultras came about as colour/wearing fanatics so they didn't get branded as hooligans by the authorities as the hooligans had started to adopt a more low-key "casual" dress sense.
Obviously the roles have reversed and hooligans (as in those that want to fight and not pose for a group photo on Twitter) in European countries have realised being part of the Ultras movement means they go under the Police's radar.
In countries like Russia and Italy the Ultras have been hijacked and Ultras/Hooliganism mean the same thing, but that isn't the case across the entire continent.
An Ultra is someone who classes themself as a "Ultra-fan", nothing more.
A bit of light reading for you then Mr Frost
http://www.ultrasuk.co.uk/
http://beyondthefieldofplay.com/2013/11/11/3-substitutions-and-5-injuries-later/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249734017_Just_a_Few_RoguesFootball_Ultras_Clubs_and_Politics_in_Contemporary_Italy
I think you've quoted the wrong person
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In this country, you get groups of fans who call themselves Ultras. Examples are the Stanley Ultras at Accrington and the lads at Middlesbrough. However they are not Ultras- they are passionate fans.
Ultras are highly politicised or violent. Usually both.
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Worth remembering this next time someone sings the praises of "Ultras." Basically Ultra is just another word for hooligans.
Based on this context you'd be right. But violence has never been part of the Ultra movement, the Ultras came about as colour/wearing fanatics so they didn't get branded as hooligans by the authorities as the hooligans had started to adopt a more low-key "casual" dress sense.
Obviously the roles have reversed and hooligans (as in those that want to fight and not pose for a group photo on Twitter) in European countries have realised being part of the Ultras movement means they go under the Police's radar.
In countries like Russia and Italy the Ultras have been hijacked and Ultras/Hooliganism mean the same thing, but that isn't the case across the entire continent.
An Ultra is someone who classes themself as a "Ultra-fan", nothing more.
A bit of light reading for you then Mr Frost
http://www.ultrasuk.co.uk/
http://beyondthefieldofplay.com/2013/11/11/3-substitutions-and-5-injuries-later/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249734017_Just_a_Few_RoguesFootball_Ultras_Clubs_and_Politics_in_Contemporary_Italy
It's Croft.
But regardless of that the point I made still stands. All of the links above regard Ultras as football hooligans in both Italy and Russia which was my point above. That doesn't mean it is the same across Europe.
Admittedly in Russia the term Ultra means something completely different and probably has since its origin, whereas in Italy and mainstream Europe an Ultras group was merely organised supporters for the purpose of chanting, Tifo, atmosphere etc.,
The rise of right wing fan groups have used Ultras (or founded them) to make it a more political stance which is the shortest route to making it a violent and thuggish club, see Celtic's Green Brigade which became exactly that.
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Worth remembering this next time someone sings the praises of "Ultras." Basically Ultra is just another word for hooligans.
Based on this context you'd be right. But violence has never been part of the Ultra movement, the Ultras came about as colour/wearing fanatics so they didn't get branded as hooligans by the authorities as the hooligans had started to adopt a more low-key "casual" dress sense.
Obviously the roles have reversed and hooligans (as in those that want to fight and not pose for a group photo on Twitter) in European countries have realised being part of the Ultras movement means they go under the Police's radar.
In countries like Russia and Italy the Ultras have been hijacked and Ultras/Hooliganism mean the same thing, but that isn't the case across the entire continent.
An Ultra is someone who classes themself as a "Ultra-fan", nothing more.
A bit of light reading for you then Mr Frost
http://www.ultrasuk.co.uk/
http://beyondthefieldofplay.com/2013/11/11/3-substitutions-and-5-injuries-later/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249734017_Just_a_Few_RoguesFootball_Ultras_Clubs_and_Politics_in_Contemporary_Italy
I think you've quoted the wrong person
Oh dear, apologies Mr Frost who looks nothing like Mr Croft. However I hope they (and anyone else) might find my links to articles giving some factual information about the links between Ultras and violence, especially in Italy where they first came to prominence in the 1960's and 70's, in response to Mr Croft's somewhat erroneous piece.
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Worth remembering this next time someone sings the praises of "Ultras." Basically Ultra is just another word for hooligans.
Based on this context you'd be right. But violence has never been part of the Ultra movement, the Ultras came about as colour/wearing fanatics so they didn't get branded as hooligans by the authorities as the hooligans had started to adopt a more low-key "casual" dress sense.
Obviously the roles have reversed and hooligans (as in those that want to fight and not pose for a group photo on Twitter) in European countries have realised being part of the Ultras movement means they go under the Police's radar.
In countries like Russia and Italy the Ultras have been hijacked and Ultras/Hooliganism mean the same thing, but that isn't the case across the entire continent.
An Ultra is someone who classes themself as a "Ultra-fan", nothing more.
A bit of light reading for you then Mr Frost
http://www.ultrasuk.co.uk/
http://beyondthefieldofplay.com/2013/11/11/3-substitutions-and-5-injuries-later/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249734017_Just_a_Few_RoguesFootball_Ultras_Clubs_and_Politics_in_Contemporary_Italy
It's Croft.
But regardless of that the point I made still stands. All of the links above regard Ultras as football hooligans in both Italy and Russia which was my point above. That doesn't mean it is the same across Europe.
Admittedly in Russia the term Ultra means something completely different and probably has since its origin, whereas in Italy and mainstream Europe an Ultras group was merely organised supporters for the purpose of chanting, Tifo, atmosphere etc.,
The rise of right wing fan groups have used Ultras (or founded them) to make it a more political stance which is the shortest route to making it a violent and thuggish club, see Celtic's Green Brigade which became exactly that.
Yes apologies again to Mr Frost.
And sorry Mr Croft but your history and knowledge of what the Ultras are is wrong. A further piece for you https://libcom.org/library/history-ultra-movement-italy
With the advent of the Ultras, even the excesses of the public changed face completely. Unruly behaviour like invading the pitch (or 'referee-baiting) decreased, while from around 1974 onwards clashes between rival groups tended to become more frequent. This was the case in two matches that year: Turin-Sampdoria and Rome-Lazio. Right from the start spectators began throwing all sorts of objects onto the field, and violent battles between opposing factions of supporters ensued, obliging the police to intervene firing tear gas onto the terraces. The clashes continued onto the streets, almost in an urban warfare scenario: buses destroyed, cars overturned, etc.
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In this country, you get groups of fans who call themselves Ultras. Examples are the Stanley Ultras at Accrington and the lads at Middlesbrough. However they are not Ultras- they are passionate fans.
Ultras are highly politicised or violent. Usually both.
That's only because of how mainstream media portray them.
But look at VAK410, the Unity2001, ultras gelsenkirchen, Uktras Ghent, Politehnica Timisoara.
I could go on, but that is a few examples of Ultra groups across the continent that are regarded as the largest Ultra groups which are known for their electric and eccentric atmosphere - admittedly usually aided by pyrotechnics.
The point I'm making is the Russain "Ultras" behaving like cocks is not reason enough to brand all Ultras as hooligans.
EDIT: Wilts, as per my previous posts, and at the risk of repeating myself: An Ultra in Russia and Italy is different to what it means throughout Europe. Countries such as Germany, Holland, Sweden, Belgium, Spain, Portugal etc., have ultras known for for flares, Tifo and support in the stadium and not throwing chairs outside of it. Of course there are exceptions with Italy and Russia. In Turkey the media stopped using the word hooligan and replaced it with the term Ultra and more recently Poland and France are seeing Ultras being known more for their violence outside of the stadium than support inside. But these people are only Ultra in name only, for all intense and purposes they are hooligans.
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Sorry Mr Croft but again you are ignoring historical fact. Ultras groups were formed in the 60's and 70's in Italy, and then spread through Europe in the 80's and 90's, as the most passionate - and most violent group of fans.
If you (and others) peaceful but vocal groups want to refer to yourselves as Ultras then thats up to you - but it's you who are misusing the term - not the media.