Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: The Red Baron on June 18, 2016, 09:16:59 am
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My speculative punt on fairly common surnames just got me thinking. How many players have ever played a first team game for the club?
Any idea, Dutch/RB et al?
That question opens up other avenues too:
- How many have played one game only (Mirsad Bubalovic, Chris Black etc.)? No doubt plenty in THAT season.
- How many players (not including loans) have had pro contracts with us but never played? (Hakan Hayrettin etc.)?
First of all, a caveat. As there is no definition of a "First Class" football match (unlike cricket) I have been forced to make a rather arbitrary decision. I have included for the purposes of the above the following:
Football League (including Play Offs)
Football League Cup
Associate Members Cup/ FL Trophy and its predecessors
FA Cup Competition Proper
Football Conference (including Play Offs)
Not included are as follows:
FA Cup Qualifying Rounds *
FA Trophy
Conference League Cup (Endsleigh/ Macmillan)
Sheffield County Cup
Sheffield & H Senior Challenge Cup
Midland League
Yorkshire League
Other local cups
Wartime games (other than the 1945-46 FA Cup)
(* In 1924-25 two FA Cup Qualifying Rounds were the equivalent of the First and Second Round Proper now, so these are included. After that the rounds were redesignated).
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Question 1. Total Number of Players. As at the end of last season, 1141. No. 1 was Frank Bailey, who was first alphabetically in the Rovers side that played Burslem Port Vale in their first ever Football League fixture (7th September 1901). No. 1141 is Will Longbottom, who made his debut against Burton Albion in the final game of last season.
(PS. If I included the FA Trophy and Conference League Cup in my numbers, which are the two competitions I agonise over the most, the number would be 1144. See below).
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Question 2. One game wonders. Amazingly the total is exactly 100!
ALDRIDGE, Stephen Paul (Steve)
AMEOBI, Oluwatomiwo (Tomi)
BANN, Fred
BARRETT, Charles Roger (Roger)
BEDFORD, Samuel (Sam)
BEIRNE, Michael Andrew (Micky)
BELL, George William
BINNS, Ernest Dalton (Ernie)
BLACK, Christopher David (Chris)
BODEN, Kenneth (Ken)
BORG, John Carmel Adam
BRADLEY, Mark
BRENTANO, Stephen Ronald (Steve)
BUBALOVIC, Mirsad Mimi
BUKOVINA, John Frank
BURGE, Ryan James
BUSSINGHAM, Charles (Charlie)
CHALMERS, Grant
CLARK, Robert Jack (Robbie)
COADY, Lewis
CRABTREE, Richard Edward
CULLEN, Anthony Scott (Tony)
CYGAN, Paul
DALE, Leo
DALEY, Alan James (Digger)
DANIELS, Stephen Richard (Steve)
DARBY, Alan
DOWELL, Wayne Anthony
EADES, Colin
FAWCETT, George T.
FINNEGAN, Evan
FLETCHER, John
FOY, Keith Patrick
FRANCE, Darren Brian
GALLAGHER, Nicholas (Nicky)
GARNETT, Malcolm John
GILLIGAN, Augustine Anthony (Gus)
GLIDDEN, William Sidney (Sid)
GORDON, Arthur
GRAYSON, Bradley Andrew
HARKIN, James (Jimmy)
HARLING, Edwin (Eddie)
HATTON, John William
HAWKINS, Harold St.John
HERRINGTON, Eric
HOLLAND, Simon Luke David
HOWARD, David Cecil
HOY, Kristian (Kris)
ILLMAN, Neil David
JONES, David J.
KIRKLAND, Christopher Edmund (Chris)
LECYGNE, Eddy
LEE, Robert
LIEVESLEY, Harold
LINDLEY, William (Manny)
LONG, Nigel
LONGBOTTOM, William Radley (Will)
MANSELL, George William
MASON, Stuart James
MCCARTHY, Jonathan David (Jon)
MCKAY, Mark Brian
MCKAY, Paul
MEADE, Joshua Ryan
MILLAR, William (Billy)
MOORE, Brian
MORRIS, Neil Anthony
NELSON, Edward (Ted)
NETTLETON, William (Willie)
NOTTON, Cecil Leonard Roger
O'BRIEN, Robert Louis (Rob)
OHANDJANIAN, Demis Armen
PAYNE, Joshua James (Josh)
PEDWELL, Ralph
PENMAN, James
PENNY, Christian Vincent (Chris)
PEPPER, Francis (Frank)
PETTIT, James H. (Jimmy)
PITTMAN, Jon-Paul
REECE, Paul John
REES, Abraham (Abe)
RODGERS, Alwyn
ROGERS, Lee Julian
RORRISON, James Armstrong (Jim)
RUSHBY, Alan
RYAN, John Michael
SMITH, Charles Godfrey
SMITH, David Alan
SMITH, Peter Lee
SPEDDING, Thomas William (Tom)
SPEIGHT, Martyn Stephen
STABLES, John (Jack)
STEVENSON, Andrew John (Andy)
TELFORD, Robert (Bob)
THOMPSON, Tyrone I'Yungo
THORNLEY, Roderick Neil (Rod)
VARNEY, Frank
WALKER, Steven (Steve)
WHEELER, Adam Lawrence
WILLIAMS, David
WILLIAMS, Dean Anton
NB: The three players mentioned above are not included here. They are Richard Powell, Marc Ridley and Robert Wild. Three youth players who appeared in a Conference League Cup tie against Southport in 1998.
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Question 3. Difficult to quantify the number of players who had professional contracts but never made an appearance. I came across an example the other day, C.H. Walker (aka Mickey Walker senior) who was on Rovers' books in 1946-1948 but never made the first team. The best I can offer is possibly a list of players who were named as substitutes for the first team but never made it onto the pitch. The number of times they were named on the bench is also shown (there are 53 of them):
MAXTED, Jonathan James (Jon) 83
NIELSEN, Tonny 15
TAYLOR, James M. 12
DAVIES, Matthew Allen (Matty) 11
ASKINS, Benjamin Jack (Ben) 9
COLLIN, Adam James 9
MORRIS, Elliot 9
WILKINSON, Ian Matthew 9
FERGUSON, Lewis Edward 8
HOWIESON, Cameron Drew Neru 8
WALKER, Andrew William (Andy) 7
BRADSHAW, Jordan Andrew 6
FLITNEY, Ross Daniel 6
BEENEY, Mark Raymond 4
BUXTON, Nicholas Gareth (Nick) 4
JONES, Louis 4
KINDEL, Dennis 4
PACEY, Robert William (Rob) 4
COCKERHAM, Lee Andrew 3
NOBLE, Matthew James (Matty) 3
RADFORD, Oscar Stuart 3
ALNWICK, Benjamin Robert (Ben) 2
BYNG, David Graeme 2
CARBERRY, Michael George 2
DIATTA, Lamine 2
FISHER, Charles Oliver 2
HAYRETTIN, Hakan Ramis 2
JONES, Aaron Lee 2
KEARNEY, Martin R. 2
LUCAS, Brett 2
PLESSIS, Damien 2
PUGH, Joseph James 2
REEVES, Darren 2
WILLIAMSON, Michael James (Mike) 2
BINNS, Jordan Thomas 1
BROWN, Scott Peter 1
DICKMAN, Christopher (Chris) 1
FELL, Darren Michael 1
GALLEN, Steven James (Steve) 1
HILTON, James 1
HORAN, Mark 1
JONES, Michael 1
LETHEREN, Kyle Charles 1
LINLEY, Jordan Alex 1
M'BUTI, Sala Kevin (Kevin) 1
MCLAREN, Jack 1
MIDDLEMASS, Scott Lee 1
MULLEN, Patrick James (Paddy) 1
OLDHAM, Robert Ralph (Robbie) 1
PALLANT, Sean Paul 1
SUNLEY, David 1
WHALEY, Simon Paul 1
WILDING, Edward Mark (Eddie) 1
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Thank you RB. That's a brilliant bit of work in a short time. You're a good man and I'll happily buy you a drink when I see you next.
Reading some of those one game wonders was particularly fun. Dean A Williams played half a game against Darlo if I remember correctly and was so poor he was never seen again.
Chris Black the enigma. John Michael Ryan: never heard of him!
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Thanks Mike. I suppose I shouldn't say this but it didn't take me very long. Just a question of pushing a few buttons. I have everything in a database and I spend a day at the end of the season updating everything.
A few years back I did an exercise to assign a number (like those given to Test Cricketers) to each player. I have all the work and I've kept it up to date. I haven't published it though because the issue of "what is a first class match" is such a can of worms.
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Ahem...
What about Simon Black, one of influx of players in I think 94 close season who never turned out for us but was on squad photo?
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Thank you RB. That's a brilliant bit of work in a short time. You're a good man and I'll happily buy you a drink when I see you next.
Reading some of those one game wonders was particularly fun. Dean A Williams played half a game against Darlo if I remember correctly and was so poor he was never seen again.
Chris Black the enigma. John Michael Ryan: never heard of him!
I am proud to say that I Was There when Dean A Williams made his appearance for Rovers at Belle Vue. If memory serves me correct he was subbed and never again graced the hoops.
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Plenty of those. I'll raise you Ross Thompson, Mark Wroe and Alan Impey.
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Thank you RB. That's a brilliant bit of work in a short time. You're a good man and I'll happily buy you a drink when I see you next.
Reading some of those one game wonders was particularly fun. Dean A Williams played half a game against Darlo if I remember correctly and was so poor he was never seen again.
Chris Black the enigma. John Michael Ryan: never heard of him!
I am proud to say that I Was There when Dean A Williams made his appearance for Rovers at Belle Vue. If memory serves me correct he was subbed and never again graced the hoops.
I was there too. He was cack. Ditto Rod Thornley who played in the same game as Weaver's fat neighbour.
Minor point but Dean A. Williams didn't play in hoops for us.
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How many of us have got the Dean A Williams/Chris Black/John Ryan hat-trick then?
Bonus point for Mirsad Bubalovic.
And another for Weaver's fat mate!
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Think I'm a bit young for Dean A Williams (may have seen him but don't remember) but I was there for Weaver's mate, at Oxford (I believe) for CB and at Hereford for John. I don't specifically remember seeing Bubalovic but I missed only a game or two of the home games in the conference so must have been there.
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Thank you RB. That's a brilliant bit of work in a short time. You're a good man and I'll happily buy you a drink when I see you next.
Reading some of those one game wonders was particularly fun. Dean A Williams played half a game against Darlo if I remember correctly and was so poor he was never seen again.
Chris Black the enigma. John Michael Ryan: never heard of him!
I am proud to say that I Was There when Dean A Williams made his appearance for Rovers at Belle Vue. If memory serves me correct he was subbed and never again graced the hoops.
I was there too. He was cack. Ditto Rod Thornley who played in the same game as Weaver's fat neighbour.
Minor point but Dean A. Williams didn't play in hoops for us.
Brilliant piece of Rovers pedantry for your final point. With it being a home game it must have been the all red kit with Doncaster Star as sponsors. The away kit that season was all blue. Actually looked pretty good.
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How many of us have got the Dean A Williams/Chris Black/John Ryan hat-trick then?
Bonus point for Mirsad Bubalovic.
And another for Weaver's fat mate!
I can only lay claim to the golden double of Dean A Williams and Chris Black.
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On the subject of the two Dean Williams, I was invited back in 1993 when I was living in London to the match between Brentford and Exeter. In the game both Dean's played and I believe it was the debut of one of them.Then by the start of the following season I'd moved back to Doncaster and saw the debut of both for Rovers v Darlington.
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Thank you RB. That's a brilliant bit of work in a short time. You're a good man and I'll happily buy you a drink when I see you next.
Reading some of those one game wonders was particularly fun. Dean A Williams played half a game against Darlo if I remember correctly and was so poor he was never seen again.
Chris Black the enigma. John Michael Ryan: never heard of him!
I am proud to say that I Was There when Dean A Williams made his appearance for Rovers at Belle Vue. If memory serves me correct he was subbed and never again graced the hoops.
I was there too. He was cack. Ditto Rod Thornley who played in the same game as Weaver's fat neighbour.
Minor point but Dean A. Williams didn't play in hoops for us.
Brilliant piece of Rovers pedantry for your final point. With it being a home game it must have been the all red kit with Doncaster Star as sponsors. The away kit that season was all blue. Actually looked pretty good.
I loved that 1994-95 kit. I had both shirts. May still do.
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How many first team games did our friend Ignacio Ibarra make in the 98-99 season? Can't have been many at all.
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How many first team games did our friend Ignacio Ibarra make in the 98-99 season? Can't have been many at all.
Off the top of my head about half a dozen.
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Actually five.
http://www.doncasterrovers.co.uk/players/XtoZ/Ybarra,Nacho.htm
He also played one game in the FA Trophy against Frickley when he was sent off by Howard Webb.
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Should Louis Tomlinson be on the Q3 list, being on the books but never making a first team appearance?
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I was at Oxford for the Chris Black game. He wound up the Oxford fans all afternoon. I thought they had kidnapped him on the way out.
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Should Louis Tomlinson be on the Q3 list, being on the books but never making a first team appearance?
I suppose he would, although strictly speaking he wasn't on a professional contract, just on non-contract forms (as was JR). But as I explained such a list would be almost impossible to construct. Perhaps with access to FL records, which I believe are held at the National Football Museum in Manchester, it could be done.
The list of unused subs was the best alternative I could think of.
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How many of us have got the Dean A Williams/Chris Black/John Ryan hat-trick then?
Bonus point for Mirsad Bubalovic.
And another for Weaver's fat mate!
I saw them all. I'm not sure which was least effective. Chris Black was easily the best of the bunch.
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Ahem...
What about Simon Black, one of influx of players in I think 94 close season who never turned out for us but was on squad photo?
I remember him. Talked up a bit when we signed him from Birmingham.
Didn't we sign Darren Roberts from Wolves around the same time? Started pre season training, then a few weeks later he changed his mind and went to Chesterfield.
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Ian Atkins signed him and when Atkins got the tin tack he decided he didn't want to stay.
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How many of us have got the Dean A Williams/Chris Black/John Ryan hat-trick then?
Bonus point for Mirsad Bubalovic.
And another for Weaver's fat mate!
All of the above. Micky Beirne too. Another one from the Manchester suburbs. Blazed a decent chance high over the Rosso end, never seen again.
My memory obviously fading slightly though, as I thought Beirne and Thornley played in the same match but separate to the fat keeper. Also thought Steve Gallen played more than once.
Great work from TRB pulling together the lists, and a very enjoyable topic looking back over some of the shite we've had!
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Thanks Mike. I suppose I shouldn't say this but it didn't take me very long. Just a question of pushing a few buttons. I have everything in a database and I spend a day at the end of the season updating everything.
A few years back I did an exercise to assign a number (like those given to Test Cricketers) to each player. I have all the work and I've kept it up to date. I haven't published it though because the issue of "what is a first class match" is such a can of worms.
TRB - I doff my hat to you (again) for a fabulous piece of work. I remember your article very well, and I enjoyed it more than any other stat based Rovers thing I have ever read (Of course I did not re-read it to make my guess of total Rovers players). I think we discussed it at the time, and I still feel your concept and format are so good I think the club should adopt it (if you are willing of course).
Truly great piece of work :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Beirne played in the season before Smith and Thornley. Subsequently he returned to Belle Vue with Flixton in a FA Cup qualifying match in 1998.
Steve Gallen never got on the pitch and was only named on the bench once. He was injured a lot of the time he was with us. I remember seeing him start a pre-season game at Tamworth. Within a few minutes he had to go off with a cut head.
Despite that he actually won a cap for the Republic of Ireland under-21s while he was with us! Quite amazing!
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Beirne played in the season before Smith and Thornley. Subsequently he returned to Belle Vue with Flixton in a FA Cup qualifying match in 1998.
Steve Gallen never got on the pitch and was only named on the bench once. He was injured a lot of the time he was with us. I remember seeing him start a pre-season game at Tamworth. Within a few minutes he had to go off with a cut head.
Despite that he actually won a cap for the Republic of Ireland under-21s while he was with us! Quite amazing!
Cheers, your encyclopedic knowledge is amazing on this subject, I love it!
I must have watched Gallen in the reserves a bit as I'm sure I saw him a few times! I had a feeling we had three Irish lads at that time - Gallen, Darren Finley and perhaps one other. But again I could be wrong.
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Finlay was an Ulsterman and recall being capped for them at u21 level when with us.
At time I thought it couldn't get much better than that.
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I hope you've got someone you can trust to carry all this on TRB. Appreciate all the effort and thought you've put into this.
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I hope you've got someone you can trust to carry all this on TRB. Appreciate all the effort and thought you've put into this.
It's all right, I'm not going anywhere!
Thanks for the kind words.
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Of the one-game wonders, I managed to see all of these make their only appearance:
AMEOBI, Oluwatomiwo (Tomi)
BEIRNE, Michael Andrew (Micky)
BLACK, Christopher David (Chris)
BORG, John Carmel Adam
BRADLEY, Mark
BRENTANO, Stephen Ronald (Steve)
BUBALOVIC, Mirsad Mimi
BURGE, Ryan James
CLARK, Robert Jack (Robbie)
CYGAN, Paul
DANIELS, Stephen Richard (Steve)
DOWELL, Wayne Anthony
FINNEGAN, Evan
FOY, Keith Patrick
FRANCE, Darren Brian
GRAYSON, Bradley Andrew
HOLLAND, Simon Luke David
HOY, Kristian (Kris)
ILLMAN, Neil David
JONES, David J.
KIRKLAND, Christopher Edmund (Chris)
LONGBOTTOM, William Radley (Will)
MEADE, Joshua Ryan
MORRIS, Neil Anthony
O'BRIEN, Robert Louis (Rob)
OHANDJANIAN, Demis Armen
PAYNE, Joshua James (Josh)
PENNY, Christian Vincent (Chris)
PITTMAN, Jon-Paul
REECE, Paul John
RYAN, John Michael
SMITH, David Alan
SMITH, Peter Lee
SPEIGHT, Martyn Stephen
THOMPSON, Tyrone I'Yungo
THORNLEY, Roderick Neil (Rod)
WHEELER, Adam Lawrence
WILLIAMS, Dean Anton
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Oluwatomiwo
What a f**king name.
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Wow brilliant record keeping I bow before you
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Awesome John... I saw quite a few of those 1 game wonders but nothing like as many as you. Question though: is that Jon-Paul Pittman the Pittman who went on to be a pretty decent player? Which, of course, does beg another quetion... Of those who only played 1 game for the Rovers, how many, and who, went on to have a half way reasonable career as a professional player? (Like Ameobi) Or had had a decent career before joing us? (Like Kirkland)
Cheers
BobG
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Of the top of my head, here are the ones I saw.
Tomi Ameobi
Chris Black
John Bukovina
Steve Brentano
Paul Cygan
Neil Morris
Rod Thornley
Possibly a few of the others, but I'm not certain.
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Awesome John... I saw quite a few of those 1 game wonders but nothing like as many as you. Question though: is that Jon-Paul Pittman the Pittman who went on to be a pretty decent player? Which, of course, does beg another quetion... Of those who only played 1 game for the Rovers, how many, and who, went on to have a half way reasonable career as a professional player? (Like Ameobi) Or had had a decent career before joing us? (Like Kirkland)
Cheers
BobG
I wouldn't say Ameobi did Bob. His brothers have both had decent careers but he's mainly played lower league football in Scandinavia.
Kirkland and Jon McCarthy had decent careers. That's about it. Ironically of those who never got on the pitch Mike Williamson, Adam Collin, Ben Alnwick and Mark Beeney did ok. David Sunley too.
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I'll never forget seeing the wonderfully named 'Illman 'Unter! He didn't strike me as being too bad either tbh.
BobG
PS Thank you John. Always did get my Ami's mixed up with my Obi's. Lol
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Of the top of my head, here are the ones I saw.
Tomi Ameobi
Chris Black
John Bukovina
Steve Brentano
Paul Cygan
Neil Morris
Rod Thornley
Possibly a few of the others, but I'm not certain.
If you saw Rod Thornley you'd have seen David Smith, aka Weaver's fat neighbour.
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Awesome John... I saw quite a few of those 1 game wonders but nothing like as many as you. Question though: is that Jon-Paul Pittman the Pittman who went on to be a pretty decent player? Which, of course, does beg another quetion... Of those who only played 1 game for the Rovers, how many, and who, went on to have a half way reasonable career as a professional player? (Like Ameobi) Or had had a decent career before joing us? (Like Kirkland)
Cheers
BobG
Pittman must have a claim to the shortest Rovers career, along with Cullen, Cygan, Chalmers and John Ryan. All came on as late subs.
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BobG - I think you could be confusing Tomi Ameobi with Kazenga Lua Lua. Both had famous elder brothers who had career success with Newcastle, but that's where the similarity ended - Kazenga was on loan and did reasonably well for us, whereas Tomi was a permanent signing and had one horrendous appearance. LuaLua has since had a solid second tier career with Brighton, whereas Ameobi has floundered around minor leagues.
I could have this wrong, you may be confusing him with somebody else entirely, but there's no way you could say he has had a reasonable career!
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Ameobi plays in the American second tier these days I think.
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Of the top of my head, here are the ones I saw.
Tomi Ameobi
Chris Black
John Bukovina
Steve Brentano
Paul Cygan
Neil Morris
Rod Thornley
Possibly a few of the others, but I'm not certain.
If you saw Rod Thornley you'd have seen David Smith, aka Weaver's fat neighbour.
Aye, of course. Aren't I blessed?
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You're dead right Nick. TRB put me right about half a dozen posts back. And yes. It was old Kazenga I was thinking of. Cracking name that don't you think? It's like the pet dog I've always wanted. I'd name him 'w**ker' cos then I could go out on the local streets and fields and bellow 'Here! w**ker!" to my hearts content.
Bob
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Tomi Ameobi was a fantastic impact sub.
IIRC we were 1-0 up at home to Wolves. He came on, immediately fouled his man, missed his interception of the free kick and Wolves equalised.
Right up there with Sam Oji vs. Arsenal for worst substitute performance ever.
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At least that wasn't Sam Oji's only appearance. Ameobi's must surely be on of the worst professional appearances of all time!
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Tomi Ameobi was a fantastic impact sub.
IIRC we were 1-0 up at home to Wolves. He came on, immediately fouled his man, missed his interception of the free kick and Wolves equalised.
Right up there with Sam Oji vs. Arsenal for worst substitute performance ever.
Absolutely spot on recollection Mike F.
My abiding memory of Ameobi though was watching him warm up. They laid out that rope ladder along the side of the pitch and players too turns to jog fast on spot over each rung.
Despite repeated attempts to master this, Ameobi kept tripping over each rung. The writing was on the wall really.
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One slight correction on the Ameobi story. It was 0-0 and Wolves then scored the winner from the free kick he conceded. Otherwise spot on.
A case of darkest before the dawn really, as in the next match we dismantled Forest and didn't look back.
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One slight correction on the Ameobi story. It was 0-0 and Wolves then scored the winner from the free kick he conceded. Otherwise spot on.
A case of darkest before the dawn really, as in the next match we dismantled Forest and didn't look back.
That was game when that massive unit Elokobi completely took out Copps. Demolished him.
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One slight correction on the Ameobi story. It was 0-0 and Wolves then scored the winner from the free kick he conceded. Otherwise spot on.
A case of darkest before the dawn really, as in the next match we dismantled Forest and didn't look back.
That was game when that massive unit Elokobi completely took out Copps. Demolished him.
I thought that was a FA Cup tie about 3 years later. We drew 2-2 but got murdered in the replay.
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Yes, that's right. Got sent off. But it was definitely the 2-2 in the Cup.
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You're dead right Nick. TRB put me right about half a dozen posts back. And yes. It was old Kazenga I was thinking of. Cracking name that don't you think? It's like the pet dog I've always wanted. I'd name him 'w**ker' cos then I could go out on the local streets and fields and bellow 'Here! w**ker!" to my hearts content.
Bob
Or alternatively if you were teaching it to return to you whilst off the lead w**ker COME!
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Ha ha ha! I've never thought of that one.
Cheers
Bob