Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: The Red Baron on June 21, 2016, 11:14:57 am
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Although I voted Leave a few weeks ago (by postal vote) I've been convinced we will just about vote to stay in. Nothing has really changed, though if you'd asked me last week I'd have made the margin a bit narrower.
My prediction:
REMAIN 53.4%
LEAVE 46.6%
But as someone said elsewhere, let's move on now.
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Leave will not win but it's who I'm voting for. Once the vote is done it's done.
Remain 51.7%
Leave 48.3%
COULD easily go the other way though, very easily.
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52.5% to remain.
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Remain..
Not for any of the spin that both sides are putting on the debate, but for personal reasons.
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54/46 for Remain
I reckon turnout will be around 65% so as usual the CBA Party will be the majority.
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53 - 47 Stay
What worries and or annoys me though is that result will leave the losers the chance to carp on and on for Years to come and like the SNP finds ways to mention the "possibility" that they may need another Referendum if this happens or that happens the defeated Leavers will keep banging on about leaving as it was "so close"
However what happens if the Vote is exactly the opposite ... the ones who want to stay in cant do jack s*** can they ? We would be out and hardly likely to say hang on a minute while we push for another vote.
So one way the result seems to leave the door open for more and more pressure to have a vote and the other does not ... door shut ... eff off !
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53 - 47 Stay
What worries and or annoys me though is that result will leave the losers the chance to carp on and on for Years to come and like the SNP finds ways to mention the "possibility" that they may need another Referendum if this happens or that happens the defeated Leavers will keep banging on about leaving as it was "so close"
However what happens if the Vote is exactly the opposite ... the ones who want to stay in cant do jack s*** can they ? We would be out and hardly likely to say hang on a minute while we push for another vote.
So one way the result seems to leave the door open for more and more pressure to have a vote and the other does not ... door shut ... eff off !
Pretty much sums up my thoughts on it too.
I'm voting remain and most of the way through expected to be on the end of a narrow defeat but I think "my lot" will just edge it now.
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Being in the EU has some benefits. Romania wanted very much for a long time to be accepted in the EU for that benefits: to access some funds to invest in infrastructure, hospitals, schools etc (but that borrowed money will be returned, in time), free travel in other country in holidays (you don't have to wait for visa), some rights and laws that help people etc....In Romania is still very bad for the employees, the owners still have the impression that employees are slaves, small wages, no bank holidays to stay with your family (they don't give a sh*t about this).
My opinion is that the vote will be close, but your country will remain in the EU.
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I hope you're right, DMC.
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I hope you're right, DMC.
I hope that too. As I talked with Rob and Gav on facebook, next year (january or february, I hope) I want to come in Doncaster to work there. I hope this time I wouldn't be unlucky to get sick and stay in the hospital, like I was in Barnsley in 2014 :lol:. But until then I have to put aside money every month.
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53 - 47 Stay
What worries and or annoys me though is that result will leave the losers the chance to carp on and on for Years to come and like the SNP finds ways to mention the "possibility" that they may need another Referendum if this happens or that happens the defeated Leavers will keep banging on about leaving as it was "so close"
However what happens if the Vote is exactly the opposite ... the ones who want to stay in cant do jack s*** can they ? We would be out and hardly likely to say hang on a minute while we push for another vote.
So one way the result seems to leave the door open for more and more pressure to have a vote and the other does not ... door shut ... eff off !
The good thing about that scenario if it happened is that the Tories would tear themselves to pieces over it.
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I dread the prospect but I think Leave will just tip it... mind, Glyn's silver lined cloud makes me feel a very tiny bit better about it.
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For anyone staying up to see the results:
https://electionsetc.com/2016/06/22/how-the-bbc-will-be-benchmarking-the-results-on-eu-referendum-night/
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I hope you're right, DMC.
I hope that too. As I talked with Rob and Gav on facebook, next year (january or february, I hope) I want to come in Doncaster to work there. I hope this time I wouldn't be unlucky to get sick and stay in the hospital, like I was in Barnsley in 2014 :lol:. But until then I have to put aside money every month.
DMC, I think we at times in this country don't realise how lucky we are, we are a little spoilt. My dad was good friends with somebody from romania, he had a television repair place in Bentley, a few miles away from Doncaster.
He said in his homeland he was a professor of electronics, something like that. He defintely knew his way around a television, a really nice person.
I don't think the majority of our country, are anti-foreign people, they are worried, that the government hasn't the funds build the houses needed, and make our services larger to be able to accomodate extra people. The money is still very tight in the country compared to what it was, but it is improving steadily.
You went to the wrong place going barnsley, you were lucky it wasn't foot and mouth disease, only joking no different to donny really!.
I wish you good luck, i hope you can come back to our country. You seem a very nice bloke and a hard worker, and if you like our football team even better!. You deserve to be able to work and be treated like a human being, unlike it currently is where you are, everybody deserves respect!.
I was routing for romania in the euro's, i thought they had got a point against france, until payet popped up. I'm sure you're new manager will improve things. They looked a good solid side, just a bit short up front.
It's nice to hear the viewpoint of somebody from another country, it broadens the mind. Good luck, hope you get to Doncaster, i'm sure you will. :thumbsup: :scarf:
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Thank you for your kind words. Many romanian people are nice persons, but we, as a country, are especially judged by what romanian gypsies did in other countries (they steal, kill etc in Romania too).
In 2014 I was in Barnsley because there (at Asos) I found a job from Bucharest. I thought it was a beginning until I would have found something else, but after that damn meningitis I had to return home.
I searched for this team at the beginning of 2014, when Tamas played here and I discovered this forum. Personally I only met Rob, he visited and helped me at hospital for a few times (and I'm very grateful for that). That's why I want to come in Doncaster. I talked with many people from here and they seemed very nice people.
We had hopes at euro too, after that match against France (we where unlucky to lose than one) we thought we could make a good tournament. But we played badly against Switzerland and Albania, so we didn't deserved to qualify.
At euro we don't have good result, our only victory was at euro 2000, against England, when Ionel Ganea scored the 3-2 goal from penalty kick in the 89th minute.
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I dread the prospect but I think Leave will just tip it...
I'm worried Leave will win too. Most of my friends are voting leave, even though the reasons they are giving are bonkers and they are quoting "facts" they have read that are simply not true. Did you know, for example, if we remain, the EU will force the UK government to reduce the size of our armed forces? :facepalm:
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I dread the prospect but I think Leave will just tip it...
I'm worried Leave will win too. Most of my friends are voting leave, even though the reasons they are giving are bonkers and they are quoting "facts" they have read that are simply not true. Did you know, for example, if we leave the EU will force the UK government to reduce the size of our armed forces? :facepalm:
It sounds daft. But stranger things have happened... I agree there are clearly some voting without thought though and I say that having already voted leave this morning.
The bookies heavily back a remain win right now. They aren't often wrong though were last year in the election.
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Anecdotally the turnout seems to be high in many parts of the country.
Turnout at last year's GE was 66.1%. I can see it being in that ballpark. Possibly higher.
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The bookies heavily back a remain win right now. They aren't often wrong though were last year in the election.
Have put a fiver on vote leave - I'm a winner either way then
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There have been lies spouted by both camps, nobody knows who to believe.
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Latest IPSOS-Mori poll. Remain 52, Leave 48. Last one showed Leave ahead. Suggests late swing back to status quo as in Scottish Referendum.
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I dread the prospect but I think Leave will just tip it...
I'm worried Leave will win too. Most of my friends are voting leave, even though the reasons they are giving are bonkers and they are quoting "facts" they have read that are simply not true. Did you know, for example, if we leave the EU will force the UK government to reduce the size of our armed forces? :facepalm:
If we leave how can the EU force our government to reduce our armed forces.
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Peter Kellner:
http://politicscounter.com/?p=95
The range looks about right to me
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I dread the prospect but I think Leave will just tip it...
I'm worried Leave will win too. Most of my friends are voting leave, even though the reasons they are giving are bonkers and they are quoting "facts" they have read that are simply not true. Did you know, for example, if we leave the EU will force the UK government to reduce the size of our armed forces? :facepalm:
If we leave how can the EU force our government to reduce our armed forces.
oops, meant remain :blush:
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I dread the prospect but I think Leave will just tip it...
I'm worried Leave will win too. Most of my friends are voting leave, even though the reasons they are giving are bonkers and they are quoting "facts" they have read that are simply not true. Did you know, for example, if we leave the EU will force the UK government to reduce the size of our armed forces? :facepalm:
If we leave how can the EU force our government to reduce our armed forces.
At gunpoint?
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Anecdotally the turnout seems to be high in many parts of the country.
Turnout at last year's GE was 66.1%. I can see it being in that ballpark. Possibly higher.
I hope it is TRB. Even at 66% that would mean 1/3rd of the electorate are not interested in voting on the future direction of the country, which I think is shocking. I hope it is up around 80% (the Scottish Independence Referendum was 85% for example).
Whichever side wins there should be some major changes to the government, and government policy, tomorrow - their leadship has been appalling.
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Do you think some people, couples for instance, don't bother voting if they cancel each other out with opposite opinions?
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Do you think some people, couples for instance, don't bother voting if they cancel each other out with opposite opinions?
Some may do, but it shouldn't be that way.
Bookies very much favouring a remain win, as predicted really, I would be surprised if it isn't.
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I voted leave but could have gone either way. I went with more heart than head in the hope that we can be a better and stronger nation if we have to stand on our own two feet.
I believe there will always be immigration, and emigration so it's not this issue that decided my vote.
I think remain will win but I hope it doesn't lead us into becoming a lazy apathetic nation, leaving it to others to solve our problems.
I'd like to think a decision to leave is brave rather than stupid accepting there will be uncertainty and some instability.
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Been out canvassing in Sheffield. I don't like drawing stereotypes but it was quite stunning how people split into two groups.
I had nothing to identify the side I supported. But in every case, the people who turned out to be Remain supporters were open and chatty from the moment they answered the door, whereas the Leavers were the ones who opened the door a crack and immediately had a suspicious look on their faces.
Without exception.
That is actually very troubling.
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One of my friends on facebook who works for DMBC is saying its 50/50 in Donny.
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I'm still sticking to 54-46 Remain.
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One of my friends on facebook who works for DMBC is saying its 50/50 in Donny.
I've been working today, I've had 71 fares and not one person has said they voted to remain
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No expert, but I expect there will be substantial geographic differences in voting pattern. Donny, if I were to guess, will have one of the highest vote leave percentages.
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I reckon generally speaking those content with their wealth will vote remain so as not to risk what they've already got, and those who aren't will vote leave, because they'll surmise they've got now't to lose.
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Been out canvassing in Sheffield. I don't like drawing stereotypes but it was quite stunning how people split into two groups.
I had nothing to identify the side I supported. But in every case, the people who turned out to be Remain supporters were open and chatty from the moment they answered the door, whereas the Leavers were the ones who opened the door a crack and immediately had a suspicious look on their faces.
Without exception.
That is actually very troubling.
you are almost qualifying for free porridge in a morning !!!
* The BBC stops short of actually encouraging people to vote.
* While the polls are open, it is a criminal offence for anyone, not just broadcasters, to publish anything about the way in which people have voted in the referendum, where that is based on information given by voters after they have voted.
* The BBC can't report anything emerging from exit polls (which, by definition, are asking people how they actually voted), although the broadcasters have not commissioned any exit polls for the referendum.
* No opinion poll on any issue relating to the referendum can be published by broadcasters until after the polls have closed.
I HOPE NONE OF THE OPINIONS YOU ASKED WERE FROM POLES !!!!!!
it does say no opinion poles !!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120
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Coleman
Aaannnddd off we go again.
Tell me where I have said anything about the way people have voted? Numbers? Identifications? Addresses?
I've said that some people I spoke to were Remain supporters. Some were Leave supporters.
You're excelling yourself this time at putting together 2 and 2 and making the square root of f**k all.
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A comfortable victory for remain.
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I lied to my neighbours also, but I voted remain....
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The demographic splits between the Leave and Remain camps are startling.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/22/eu-referendum-which-type-of-person-wants-to-leave-and-who-will-b/
Generally, there is a striking correlation between how young and highly educated someone is, and their likelihood to support Remain.
There is a very strong correlation between the paper someone reads and how likely they are to be in each of the camps.
That actually quite scares me. We are split down the middle on class, age and education lines. That's probably the cleavage between those who feel themselves to be part of the success of globalisation and those who feel that it has brought them nothing but trouble.
How you go about healing that, God only knows.
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My wife works in a bank in donny and only 2 people have told her that they are voting to stay in.
i believe we will stay in but certain areas like Donny will vote out, which will close the gap 56% - 44%
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The demographic splits between the Leave and Remain camps are startling.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/22/eu-referendum-which-type-of-person-wants-to-leave-and-who-will-b/
Generally, there is a striking correlation between how young and highly educated someone is, and their likelihood to support Remain.
There is a very strong correlation between the paper someone reads and how likely they are to be in each of the camps.
That actually quite scares me. We are split down the middle on class, age and education lines. That's probably the cleavage between those who feel themselves to be part of the success of globalisation and those who feel that it has brought them nothing but trouble.
How you go about healing that, God only knows.
I saw a forerunner of that fascinating article a couple of weeks ago
The Northern Ireland thing is a little more complex - Unionists are strongly in favour (ca 70%) of Brexit, nationalists are even more in favour of remain (ca 80%), and other parties (Alliance, Green) are also in favour of remain.
It might be SNP, Plaid Cymru and Sinn Fein that keep us in!
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In my line of work i have a large client base in Doncaster and Barnsley and no exaggeration id say 80% of who i spoke to were voting out.
Think will remain will win 52.4% but will be amazed if Donny has a majority to stay in.
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I'm a taxi driver like filo and have not had 1 person say they are voting remain. I think donny is definitely a leave area but suspect that remain will just win.
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Anyone know how they will announce the results? Is it council by council, is constituency level or what?
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Found the answer to my own question, it's local area authority.
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From what I read earlier there will only be 12 regions announcing results, which have been collected from local counting officers. Final result expected between 4am and 7am.
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Will this be tonight or first thing does anyone know
Thanks bob posted as i was trying to post
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Here you go Copps, bit of light reading for you whilst you wait for the results to come in:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36044026
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From what I read earlier there will only be 12 regions announcing results, which have been collected from local counting officers. Final result expected between 4am and 7am.
Watching the BBC coverage now and in fact there are 382 results expected to be announced.
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The demographic splits between the Leave and Remain camps are startling.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/22/eu-referendum-which-type-of-person-wants-to-leave-and-who-will-b/
Generally, there is a striking correlation between how young and highly educated someone is, and their likelihood to support Remain.
There is a very strong correlation between the paper someone reads and how likely they are to be in each of the camps.
That actually quite scares me. We are split down the middle on class, age and education lines. That's probably the cleavage between those who feel themselves to be part of the success of globalisation and those who feel that it has brought them nothing but trouble.
How you go about healing that, God only knows.
I saw a forerunner of that fascinating article a couple of weeks ago
The Northern Ireland thing is a little more complex - Unionists are strongly in favour (ca 70%) of Brexit, nationalists are even more in favour of remain (ca 80%), and other parties (Alliance, Green) are also in favour of remain.
It might be SNP, Plaid Cymru and Sinn Fein that keep us in!
It's a wonderful paradox, isn't it? Nationalists who want to escape from the English / British Yoke but want to remain tied to the Brussels one!
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TRB
Or people who want to part of a loose, large federation rather than a very tightly centralised rump of empire?
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Apparently only 24% turnout in Doncaster and a Leave majority.
Can't believe turnout will have actually been that low though.
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Being an exile from Donny, I find it hard to believe an area that has benefited so much from Europe could really vote to leave. Where would the town I was born and raised in until my early teens, and still love, be without European money.
Living in North Yorkshire everyone I know has voted leave. Worryingly they all seem to have fallen for the great immigration lie. Probably due to the fear factor when you can go weeks without seeing a non white British person.
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Bloody Europeans, coming over here and funding our infrastructure.
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It's a general kicking out against what is seen as a monolithic establishment.
It's wrong, but I understand it.
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Early whispers from Newcastle and Sunderland don't sound good for remain.
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Marginal Remain in Newcastle... :chair:
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They were expecting a much higher % for remain in Newcastle.
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Something worth considering - a lot of students will no longer be at their term time addresses and so will have voted in their "home" districts. Could explain what happened in Newcastle.
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Either the BBC have dropped a bollox with their indexing system or we have voted leave based on these early results.
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Long way to go. Pound is now dropping.
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We're leaving, aren't we...
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Long way to go but early signs surprising. Odds tumbling right now.
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I wonder if I'm the only person in the UK who swung the pencil to and fro in indecision before crossing the remain box, but would love to see the expressions of the smug, patronising members of the remain bunch after having their arses kicked if the vote goes to leave?
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Apparently only 24% turnout in Doncaster and a Leave majority.
Can't believe turnout will have actually been that low though.
69.56% turnout in Doncaster
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I wonder if I'm the only person in the UK who swung the pencil to and fro in indecision before crossing the remain box, but would love to see the expressions of the smug, patronising members of the remain bunch after having their arses kicked if the vote goes to leave?
surely no-one is a smug-looking as Farage
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Cameron and Osborne would be in my England smugface team. Farage looks like a choirboy in comparison.
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Unfortunately it will be remain, if it's tight it will be made sure to be that way.
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So much for predictions, eh?
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Aye. Congratulations to those who voted that way. I hope you've known what you are doing.
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Think everyone has been lied to far to many times by all political parties and have finally had enough
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Sh*t who saw that coming?
Not me
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Remain 👍
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Sh*t who saw that coming?
Not me
Me neither. Now we have the short term pain to come
Cameron is toast.
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Cameron and Corbyn are toast
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Cameron and Corbyn are toast
Well yes quite likely. Huge labour problem as they have a huge split between the London vote and the northern vote now.
Looking at the numbers, Yorkshire has had a huge impact on the decision.
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Strange really as I was going to vote in until yesterday but listened to Corbyn speak and for a reason I don't really know he managed to change my mind,quite possibly a bad choice but time will tell
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Cameron and Corbyn are toast
Agreed. If it's any consolation to Labour voters on here, I can see a change of leadership and a General Election on the horizon. A General Election where all bets really will be off!
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Strange really as I was going to vote in until yesterday but listened to Corbyn speak and for a reason I don't really know he managed to change my mind,quite possibly a bad choice but time will tell
Because Corbyn has come over as unenthusiastic whenever he's spoken about the EU. He consistently took Eurosceptic positions as a backbencher. His largely pro-EU MPs will have his scalp.
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Cameron won't go anywhere. Not just yet. For him to resign now will just add more fire to an already chaotic situation
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Cameron won't go anywhere. Not just yet. For him to resign now will just add more fire to an already chaotic situation
I agree. He'll hang on for a while. Osborne could be gone as Chancellor by Monday. His doom-laden predictions have made matters worse.
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I'd like to see a GE called fairly swiftly BUT there are (up to) two years' negotiations ahead and an election in the midst of all that would surely be a spoke in the wheel of the process
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TRB
I don't think you get how politics works. No one could survive a snub like that.
Well folks. You've made your beds. Welcome to a country in which Gove, Farage and Johnson are in charge.
Sweet f**king Jesus.
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Will it be any worse than Corbyn been in charge?
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Well I was wrong.
Corbyn ought to follow suit now after his half arsed campaign
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it's a far worse outcome for labour than cons,it was expected that the majority of labour supporters would vote remain yet it seems the other way round
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What do people expect. Social media stereotypes a whole group of people (white working class) as racist and are then shocked when they follow suit.
Labour has a lot of work to do in the North and unless they can accept that having legitimate concerns about immigration does not make you a racist, it could be a long time before they're back in power.
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Think everyone has been lied to far to many times by all political parties and have finally had enough
Funny that because this isn't a vote against those political parties. If anything it gives those same deluded, elitist t**ts MORE power over us.
Atrocious decision but not an unsurprising one, in my opinion.
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And it's turned out that Leave had lied about the £350m definitely being spent on the NHS and that nothing would happen to the markets...
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My big worry is the fact that older people were more likely to vote out, which has influenced it massively. Voters who will not be here to see the ramifications of such a vote.
That being said, the wheel keeps turning...
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My big worry is the fact that older people were more likely to vote out, which has influenced it massively. Voters who will not be here to see the ramifications of such a vote.
That being said, the wheel keeps turning...
And why would they do that?
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My big worry is the fact that older people were more likely to vote out, which has influenced it massively. Voters who will not be here to see the ramifications of such a vote.
That being said, the wheel keeps turning...
And why would they do that?
I don't agree with that at all..For me what this result has shown is that the North South divide is wider than ever...70-30 up here changed the vote...Northern people are fed up of our industries been closed and none of the benefits filtering up the M1,and the labour heartlands have rejected it to a overwhelming degree...Whether that's because Corbyn decided to not engage in the campaign at all or they can never bring themselves to vote with a tory I couldn't guess but that's whats made the difference,not the pensioners...
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My big worry is the fact that older people were more likely to vote out, which has influenced it massively. Voters who will not be here to see the ramifications of such a vote.
That being said, the wheel keeps turning...
And why would they do that?
I don't know but as one who is older - I have a Pension and a Bus Pass and a cheap Season Ticket - I can say (and have done on a different thread) I voted for NO when asked 41 years ago if we should join the "Common Market and yet yesterday in common with lots of other "older people" who I have talked with voted to "Remain"
I think we might regret going in the long term but will have to wait and see (hoping I live long enough !!!)
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My big worry is the fact that older people were more likely to vote out, which has influenced it massively. Voters who will not be here to see the ramifications of such a vote.
That being said, the wheel keeps turning...
I don't nessecarily buy this theory. Yes a lot of the older generation voted leave, but so did a fair proportion of middle aged and younger voters. Taking London aside, Leave comprehensively won in England, this despite a high turn out of first time voters. I believe that is more to do with socio - economic and cultural differences than it is age.
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My big worry is the fact that older people were more likely to vote out, which has influenced it massively. Voters who will not be here to see the ramifications of such a vote.
That being said, the wheel keeps turning...
And why would they do that?
I don't agree with that at all..For me what this result has shown is that the North South divide is wider than ever...70-30 up here changed the vote...Northern people are fed up of our industries been closed and none of the benefits filtering up the M1,and the labour heartlands have rejected it to a overwhelming degree...Whether that's because Corbyn decided to not engage in the campaign at all or they can never bring themselves to vote with a tory I couldn't guess but that's whats made the difference,not the pensioners...
Probably (speaking as a lay person) the immigration issue was the overriding reason as I posted in my very first "opinion" on the Referendum
The working class areas have got fed up with what they see as their services like Doctors Schools etc getting over run by those from the EU who are allowed to enter quite freely and they wanted an end to it
Donny voted 69% OUT Basildon and Billericay etc similarly
On the other had well heeled insulated areas where the mass EU influx did not impact as much (as they probably could not afford to go there) voted to STAY and Brighton for instance voted 70% to remain
Simplistic but those that were affected like Boston voted OUT cos they are getting over run and they think the only way was out !
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They think they are overrun now, wait to see what happens over the next 24 months as migrants will flood over before the EU divorce is finalised
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They think they are overrun now, wait to see what happens over the next 24 months as migrants will flood over before the EU divorce is finalised
Free movement will stay in replace regardless
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I thought the geographic spread of votes would be the most interesting but it turns out the age spread was actually more telling. The young wanted to remain, the old wanted out.
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A net population increase of between 0.25 and 0.5% depending which stats you believe doesn't lead to services being stretched to breaking point. A huge cut in funding coupled with an ageing population with older people disproportionately more likely to require healthcare does that but hey-ho, let's blame Johnny Foreigner.
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A net population increase of between 0.25 and 0.5% depending which stats you believe doesn't lead to services being stretched to breaking point. A huge cut in funding coupled with an ageing population with older people disproportionately more likely to require healthcare does that but hey-ho, let's blame Johnny Foreigner.
Hey-ho lets blame the pensioners then, that have worked hard all their lives and paid their taxes,and fought wars.
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I never said all.
But the stats are there to be seen this morning (If they are true that is). Overwhelmingly the over 40's voted out. Allegedly that is mind. Where as 18-39 voted to remain.
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TRB
I don't think you get how politics works. No one could survive a snub like that.
Well folks. You've made your beds. Welcome to a country in which Gove, Farage and Johnson are in charge.
Sweet f**king Jesus.
Sorry, should have caveated that to go immediately. He's staying on for 3 months. Corbyn might be gone before that.
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It seems the remainers don't like democracy, lots of dummies being spit out throughout the Country
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I was going to point out a geographical pattern that I didn't think the media had picked up on. People in or close to coastal areas have tended to vote leave compared to those who lived further inland who have voted more in favour of remain. Then I remembered that this probably feeds in to the age differential, with more over 65s moving and retiring to coastal areas. So it just simply is probably one key part of the clear age gap in votes.
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They think they are overrun now, wait to see what happens over the next 24 months as migrants will flood over before the EU divorce is finalised
Free movement will stay in replace regardless
If you mean until we leave then I suppose that is true - but if the Leavers are to believed once we are out then an Australian style Points system will be adopted. That will still mean we need loads of Doctors Nurses and other vocations will be needed and those with the right "skill sets" will get in
.... and they are to be believed surely ?
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It seems the remainers don't like democracy, lots of dummies being spit out throughout the Country
Funny, a lot of labour voters didn't like democracy last year.
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They think they are overrun now, wait to see what happens over the next 24 months as migrants will flood over before the EU divorce is finalised
Free movement will stay in replace regardless
If you mean until we leave then I suppose that is true - but if the Leavers are to believed once we are out then an Australian style Points system will be adopted. That will still mean we need loads of Doctors Nurses and other vocations will be needed and those with the right "skill sets" will get in
.... and they are to be believed surely ?
If we want a decent trade deal, free movement will remain.
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A net population increase of between 0.25 and 0.5% depending which stats you believe doesn't lead to services being stretched to breaking point. A huge cut in funding coupled with an ageing population with older people disproportionately more likely to require healthcare does that but hey-ho, let's blame Johnny Foreigner.
Hey-ho lets blame the pensioners then, that have worked hard all their lives and paid their taxes,and fought wars.
FFS... I'm not "blaming" pensioners for getting ill. I'm simply stating a fact that older people need more care. We've got more older people and less money going into care provision ergo services are stretched. Immigration (EU or otherwise) isn't to blame but the out campaign made a great play of making out that it is.
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Motion of no confidence now against Corbyn
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Motion of no confidence now against Corbyn
Good. He cannot survive this. His leadership over this issue has been disastrous. If he had come out with energy and enthusiasm for the EU, we'd be in a different world today. He is an utter calamity and he's as much to blame for this result as Cameron.
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A net population increase of between 0.25 and 0.5% depending which stats you believe doesn't lead to services being stretched to breaking point. A huge cut in funding coupled with an ageing population with older people disproportionately more likely to require healthcare does that but hey-ho, let's blame Johnny Foreigner.
Hey-ho lets blame the pensioners then, that have worked hard all their lives and paid their taxes,and fought wars.
FFS... I'm not "blaming" pensioners for getting ill. I'm simply stating a fact that older people need more care. We've got more older people and less money going into care provision ergo services are stretched. Immigration (EU or otherwise) isn't to blame but the out campaign made a great play of making out that it is.
I payed my taxes for over 50years and still do as a pensioner.
I voted leave because I voted in back in 1975.
The EU in it's present form is not what I and many others wanted.
We were unlikely to change policy from within so I voted leave.
I'm nearly 68 but hope to Live long enough to see my vote proved right in the long run.
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The question is did he really want to stay in the EU?? I suspect he personally didn't yet had to tow the party line of remain..How else could you explain his total lack of effort in the campaign? He was non existent..There is a difference between failing to get your message across to the labour vote and not even trying to do so...The labour heartlands have had the biggest say in this result and he stood back and let them which makes him more to blame than Cameron..Wether people didn't agree with Cameron at least he was out there making his case in what he believed in...I still don't know what Corbyn believes tbh..
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A net population increase of between 0.25 and 0.5% depending which stats you believe doesn't lead to services being stretched to breaking point. A huge cut in funding coupled with an ageing population with older people disproportionately more likely to require healthcare does that but hey-ho, let's blame Johnny Foreigner.
Hey-ho lets blame the pensioners then, that have worked hard all their lives and paid their taxes,and fought wars.
FFS... I'm not "blaming" pensioners for getting ill. I'm simply stating a fact that older people need more care. We've got more older people and less money going into care provision ergo services are stretched. Immigration (EU or otherwise) isn't to blame but the out campaign made a great play of making out that it is.
I payed my taxes for over 50years and still do as a pensioner.
I voted leave because I voted in back in 1975.
The EU in it's present form is not what I and many others wanted.
We were unlikely to change policy from within so I voted leave.
I'm nearly 68 but hope to Live long enough to see my vote proved right in the long run.
Yep - I'm not having a dig at pensioners or any other section of society. I hope to make it to be a pensioner myself and for as long as possible!
Just stating that the stress on services is caused by demand outstripping supply which isn't coming form immigration.
Regardless, the point is moot as the "immigrants filling up our doctors' surgeries and hospitals" myth worked as one of the many facets of the leave campaign's points of propaganda.
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I didn't make my decision on purely an immigration issue but if you came to any of my local doctors' surgeries or Bradford Royal Infirmary A&E you might understand why some people do feel threatened by too many foreigners.
Many issues have built up in inner city areas in the UK and been disregarded. Rightly or wrongly a lot of voters took an action that made their voice heard after years of seemingly being ignored.
Only time will tell if their decision was right or wrong.
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Idler, I do wonder living in a city like Bradford as you do, with a long and complex history of migration, how you make such a seemingly simple distinction between foreigner and native. Genuine question?
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Also thinking openly here about the decision not to allow 16/17 year olds the right to vote in this referendum. I am trying to do some ghetto maths to see if it would have made a difference to the outcome. I'm getting the result it would have made it much much closer but not actually changed the outcome. Anyone know better?
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Motion of no confidence now against Corbyn
Good. He cannot survive this. His leadership over this issue has been disastrous. If he had come out with energy and enthusiasm for the EU, we'd be in a different world today. He is an utter calamity and he's as much to blame for this result as Cameron.
I and many other labour voters would have voted out whoever the leader was.
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Regarding Bradford as an example (and Batley where I work) it does seem that some (not all, Dave!) people have voted to leave the European Union in part to stop non EU migration which is, quite frankly, bonkers.
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Idler, I do wonder living in a city like Bradford as you do, with a long and complex history of migration, how you make such a seemingly simple distinction between foreigner and native. Genuine question?
Listening to waiting room conversations gives a good clue plus the number of Eastern European names now being called.
My wife was also a nurse for 25 years so we know plenty in the health service. My daughter has also been a teacher for some years so I also know plenty of people that work in education.
Each part of the country, indeed each part of a city will have it's own reasons for the way it voted.
Me I think that the EU is a swollen bureaucracy that we could never have reformed from the inside. Remaining member states may benefit from reforms that might have kept us in once we have gone.
I already commented that a friend's German son-in-law commented that they daren't have a referendum or a majority would want to leave.
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Idler
Once again. It is thoroughly well demonstrated that migrants pay MORE in tax than they take out in services.
If you have a problem with getting NHS access, the reason is NOT migrants. It's Govt decisions on spending.
Do you think the next Govt with Johnson, IDS and Gove in charge and Farsge snapping at their b*llocks will spend more on public services?
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I'm still sticking to 54-46 Remain.
^ The moment the civilised world knew leave would win.
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I'm still sticking to 54-46 Remain.
^ The moment the civilised world knew leave would win.
Aye. I did it to convince the bookies to change the odds...
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They DID and fartarse (me) fell for it as usual
I have but £25 left in my "pot" and sorry England but its all going on us beating Iceland ! Just got to decide whether we can do them in 90 mins for 1/3 or "qualify" anyhow at for 1/5.
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Also thinking openly here about the decision not to allow 16/17 year olds the right to vote in this referendum. I am trying to do some ghetto maths to see if it would have made a difference to the outcome. I'm getting the result it would have made it much much closer but not actually changed the outcome. Anyone know better?
On that subject, and at the risk of talking to myself, I caught a news article earlier - a street interviewer was getting the voice of 'ordinary' people in Barnsley. They interviewed Shelia (let's just call her that). Shelia was wearing a shellsuit you see. Pink and green it was, all kind of pastel colours. She was also wearing big bulky white sunglasses as well. Shelia voted out of course, and couldn't really explain why. They also interviewed this young women who worked in the market selling gold who had eyebrows that would pass as runways if she was stood close to an airport. She said something to the tune of 'Britain for British'.
The last interview was with this old couple. 'Which way did you vote?' said the inquisitive reporter. 'Out', came the reply. 'Why?'. 'One word, immigration'. Of she trotted into the sunset while her husband followed about 5 yards behind with his Sainsburys bags in hand adamantly trying to keep up and, although it looked like he desperately wanted to engage in a critical debate, he just simply turned to the camera and chortled.
Now, be wrong to make generalisations, but the few 16/17 year olds I know, in my family and what not, generally tend to be quite lucid, enthusiastic, energetic, sometimes critical, sometimes naive people. I mean, I reckon they might just well be able give the older folk of Barnsley a run for their money. These are subversive thoughts really and I should probably let the custodians of democracy in Barnsley and elsewhere carry on.
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Wonder if they can even spell referendum in Barnsley...
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking anyone for being poorly educated. Education can mean a broad number of things and shouldn't just be measured by formal schooling. I mean, it seems indiscriminate to me to exclude young people based solely on the criteria of age when (I would guess) in nearly all instances it isn't the most important factor determining someone's capability (and suitability) to vote.
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I wasn't knocking the education of leave voters, for the record.
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Just the education of dingles?
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You would have been quite justified in doing so though, RedJ
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-live-results-and-analysis
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You would have been quite justified in doing so though, RedJ
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-live-results-and-analysis
You really are a nasty piece of work, you make me sick. Just because someone doesnt agree with you they must be stupid?
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Not at all. I'm not saying that at all.
The facts are there though. There was a clear correlation between educational achievement and the vote choice yesterday.
Now, as it happens, I know people with degrees who are as thick as pig shit when it comes to making joined up decisions. And the most politically insightful person I've ever met was my grandad who left school at 13 to go down the pit.
So no, I'm not calling people thick for disagreeing with me. But facts are facts. People with lower educational levels disproportionately voted Out yesterday. And vice versa.
I actually think that BOTH sides of that equation are worrying for the future cohesion of our country.
Ignoring those facts or saying that someone who raises them is a "nasty piece of work" who "makes you sick" is not going to change the existence of that divide. What really worries me at the moment is how we start to address it.
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Cameron said back when they were voted in, that he wouldn't serve the full term as prime minister. The eu out vote has just quickened his exit!.
I think long term leaving is going to be a good decision for our country, for many reasons i have mentioned before. Us leaving won't suddenly fix all the problems. Our country is much the same as many others, in that the money still isn't flowing quick enough.
I expected a drop in the value of the pound, it's the unknown for other countries, once things are being run as normal the value of the pound might even rise above what it was before we decided to leave.
I found both sides a little disgusting, the way they played on peoples fears, it just took me back to when the tories somehow were elected.
I really think the time is coming near, where there will be a reorganisation of how politics will go on into the future. The main parties saying pretty similar things, and the other alternatives, greens that want everybody on a bike, and everything to be solar powered!.
Or you have racist parties desperate to get they're claws into our great country, then you have the sneakier versions like farage, who play to the publics fears, and try to get in power by the backdoor.
Whatever happens him, and those of his ilk must not get to rule, otherwise the leave decision will be regretted. Did anybody see the heavies stood around him celebrating, did they look like the normal politician type to you?. That was a worrying scene for me, after the countries people had decided our fate.
The time is coming where people will show they're lack of belief in how things are. Some of this i suspect along with worrying about our country, was also a protest vote, people showing they have had enough of how things are being run!.
I don't think it was an easy decision to vote leave or remain, i suspect the characters involved on each side aren't really a factor. This vote is seen as a start in the right direction towards, the country being run for the people.
I don't see this decision being a major problem, because i see other countries following our lead, and leaving, starting the dismantling of the eu system.
I see our country having a bright future, after a small period when uncertainty reigns. We will still trade with other european countries, but we will also expand our market to sell to further afield.
And also we will be trading around the world, this will bring the cost of living down in the long term. Other countries leaders won't admit it, but a lot will admire our balls, to be the first to decide to leave. Those who voted leave still have the fears of what if it goes wrong, but i honestly don't think it will.
The main thing is, that whichever way you voted, we all want the best for our country, there will be multiple problems to be ironed out over the coming months. Then i see it calming down, deals being done and our country getting stronger!.