Post by: The Red Baron on June 29, 2016, 03:40:46 pm
Sounds more Mickey Mouse than ever.
Post by: Muttley on June 29, 2016, 04:07:25 pm
Up to 4 overage players permitted?
2 points for a win on penalties after a drawn game?
Have they lost their marbles?
Post by: RoversAlias on June 29, 2016, 04:44:49 pm
Post by: DearneValleyRover on June 29, 2016, 05:34:38 pm
Post by: RedJ on June 29, 2016, 05:55:00 pm
So, it's now U23 not U21?Christ, that used to be how they decided games back in the old days in MLS. Even the yanks decided it was f**king ridiculous!
Up to 4 overage players permitted?
2 points for a win on penalties after a drawn game?
Have they lost their marbles?
Post by: glosterred on June 29, 2016, 05:55:05 pm
COYR
Post by: Away Rover on June 29, 2016, 06:38:41 pm
Post by: Dagenham Rover on June 29, 2016, 06:39:30 pm
A compelling or commercially attractive reason.
Sums it up really ............stick yer cup up yer jacksy
Post by: DearneValleyRover on June 29, 2016, 06:54:18 pm
Post by: The Red Baron on June 29, 2016, 07:27:29 pm
Post by: duggiesmyhero on June 29, 2016, 07:35:08 pm
Post by: DearneValleyRover on June 29, 2016, 09:36:31 pm
If the PL clubs are fielding Development teams surely we should do the same?
You would think so but when has it been a level playing field, no doubt the same rules apply as previous seasons for league clubs but PL over valued over rated b sides will be allowed to do as they please. don't attend dont watch sky for the reults don't talk about it. To be exact don't acknowledge the competition exists, encourage everyone you know to feel the same, they will use this as a way to develop future England sides along with the mid winter break to justify Englands national failings, deflecting away from the reality.
Post by: jonnydog on June 29, 2016, 11:47:38 pm
f**king pricks these decision makers who should only really be given the choice of 2 methods of suicide! Just Kitsons!
Post by: DonnyOsmond on June 30, 2016, 08:16:03 am
Post by: The Red Baron on June 30, 2016, 08:39:12 am
The winter break might help imo. We do go into tournament's with a number of players looking burnt, give them a couple of week to get their breath back in January and go again.
I'm very suspicious about the mid-winter break. I suspect the big clubs would use it to travel abroad and play lucrative friendlies.
Post by: darren61 on June 30, 2016, 10:10:16 am
Post by: Mustapha-Dump on June 30, 2016, 12:24:13 pm
Post by: Filo on June 30, 2016, 12:27:15 pm
So let me get this right, we could be drawn in the northern section group a with Chesterfield, Grimsby and Man City, and city could play Joe Hart, Kompany, Silva and Aguero with 7 kids played at Stockport in front of 800 fans where it'll be £20 to get in and were supposed to take this seriously? Game has gone
I'd welcome Joe Hart and his floppy wrists in goal 😀
Post by: Sad-Rovers on June 30, 2016, 06:49:40 pm
(http://doncasterroverssupportersgroup.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/FLT-628x372.jpg)
http://doncasterroverssupportersgroup.org/the-football-league-trophy-a-commercial-execution/
Post by: Mr1Croft on June 30, 2016, 07:27:14 pm
Post by: drfchound on June 30, 2016, 08:16:05 pm
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on June 30, 2016, 08:57:55 pm
A winter tournament would soon be introduced for the big clubs to take advantage of the break and make even more dosh.
It'll be introduced so that Sky have something to fill airtime with more like.
Post by: Muttley on June 30, 2016, 09:01:22 pm
Post by: RedJ on June 30, 2016, 09:03:38 pm
I'm boycotting! We really need to show solidarity among all L2 & L3 teams to show that the clubs, FL & PL that they cannot ignore that the fans are the lifeblood of the game.
L3? f**k sake. You're from the future aren't you. The bas**rds went and did it.
Post by: Muttley on June 30, 2016, 09:16:17 pm
I'm still very skeptical about the benefits of this new format, but I'm prepared to give it a chance over the course of the season.
I think everyone is acutely aware of where it's leading in the long-term (or where the Premier League wants it to lead), but I hope '20,000 turning up at Tottenham' or wherever else, doesn't get blurred with the actual player development.
If they want to develop their precious darlings through competitive game time, why don't they just set up their own league/cup competitions?
Post by: Muttley on June 30, 2016, 09:16:49 pm
I'm actually from the pastI'm boycotting! We really need to show solidarity among all L2 & L3 teams to show that the clubs, FL & PL that they cannot ignore that the fans are the lifeblood of the game.
L3? f**k sake. You're from the future aren't you. The bas**rds went and did it.
Post by: RoversAlias on July 01, 2016, 08:58:53 am
Post by: Jenny on July 01, 2016, 09:05:12 am
Post by: Muttley on July 01, 2016, 09:54:34 am
http://www.againstleague3.co.uk/bteamboycott-signup/
Post by: bobjimwilly on July 01, 2016, 11:32:56 am
Post by: ravenrover on July 01, 2016, 11:46:46 am
Post by: Dagenham Rover on July 01, 2016, 11:50:13 am
Post by: The Red Baron on July 01, 2016, 11:50:26 am
A question for all the people who are saying they will boycott, if the team we are drawn against is a L1 or L2 will you still boycott?
I think the general idea is to stay away from all matches in the competition. As I understand it we will play one B team and two FL sides in a four team group.
Post by: Dagenham Rover on July 01, 2016, 11:52:07 am
Post by: DearneValleyRover on July 01, 2016, 12:20:19 pm
Post by: The Red Baron on July 01, 2016, 12:25:02 pm
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on July 01, 2016, 12:30:28 pm
Post by: The Red Baron on July 01, 2016, 12:38:45 pm
Isn't the idea to boycott the competition now it's been hijacked?
Isn't the idea to boycott the competition now it's been hijacked?
That's how I see it.
Post by: Muttley on July 01, 2016, 12:42:52 pm
Post by: dknward2 on July 01, 2016, 01:04:25 pm
Post by: Copps is Magic on July 01, 2016, 01:10:48 pm
Post by: Copps is Magic on July 01, 2016, 01:15:31 pm
Post by: Sad-Rovers on July 01, 2016, 05:44:21 pm
I'm boycotting all of them - both in protest at the Football League & Premier League for introducing it, but also to protest at DRFC for not voting against it.
My understanding is there was a show of hands for, which was enough to carry it. I believe Rovers didn't vote for but didn't have the opportunity to vote against, if that makes sense.
Post by: Muttley on July 01, 2016, 06:01:26 pm
Post by: bpoolrover on July 01, 2016, 07:15:19 pm
Post by: bobjimwilly on July 06, 2016, 11:25:39 am
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on July 06, 2016, 12:02:49 pm
Post by: Retdon1 on July 06, 2016, 12:05:26 pm
Post by: Filo on July 06, 2016, 12:22:08 pm
Post by: The Red Baron on July 06, 2016, 12:30:13 pm
So it's one rule for one and one rule for another in regards to which players u must select
I agree, although the five first teamers rule probably works quite well for a club like us. It will mean we have scope to play youngsters like Marosi, Mandeville, Longbottom and Pugh without putting them alongside a load of under-18s.
Post by: DannyRovers on July 06, 2016, 03:52:47 pm
Post by: wing commander on July 06, 2016, 04:09:16 pm
It says that it helps to develop British youngsters although I wonder how many British players are in these development squads
I cant believe that clubs voted for this,in 5 or 10 years time they could look back at this moment akin to Turkeys voting for Christmas....I certainly wont be attending any of them...
Post by: RoversAlias on July 06, 2016, 04:38:27 pm
I hated the sound of it at first but after reading the full format I am coming round to it a little more. A trip to a 'invited clubs' first team stadium and the fact that its extra money from the 'invited clubs' gate receipts to league 1 & 2 makes it a bit better.
Do you want to go to, say, Man City away to watch Rovers play the academy squad in an 80% empty stadium? I'd much rather go to grounds like that when they're going to be full, and it's going to be a proper, senior game of football. It isn't at all worth it in my opinion.
Post by: Dutch Uncle on July 06, 2016, 04:40:25 pm
We can probably add Lund, Middleton, Etheridge, Wright and Garratt to the list who can benefit from extra experience, even if some may be first team startersSo it's one rule for one and one rule for another in regards to which players u must select
I agree, although the five first teamers rule probably works quite well for a club like us. It will mean we have scope to play youngsters like Marosi, Mandeville, Longbottom and Pugh without putting them alongside a load of under-18s.
Post by: The Red Baron on July 06, 2016, 05:13:05 pm
Post by: Muttley on July 06, 2016, 05:29:25 pm
There is a rumour that Man United have pulled out so a replacement will have to be found.
Also rumours that Liverpool are going to decline.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-likely-turn-down-11576325
Post by: The Red Baron on July 06, 2016, 06:07:59 pm
The competition seems to be unravelling fast. Pity the FL didn't confirm the entries.
Post by: Dagenham Rover on July 06, 2016, 07:35:37 pm
Post by: Sammy Chung was King on July 07, 2016, 04:12:31 am
Post by: silent majority on July 07, 2016, 09:58:30 am
Did the supporters have any say in this at all,were the FSF even consulted about this...?? Maybe a question for SM to answer..He did say they had a meeting with them later this month but the rules have been ratified and released so is that just lip service to let the fans have a moan while smiling and understanding the concerns but in reality not giving a toss what we think...
It says that it helps to develop British youngsters although I wonder how many British players are in these development squads
I cant believe that clubs voted for this,in 5 or 10 years time they could look back at this moment akin to Turkeys voting for Christmas....I certainly wont be attending any of them...
I doubt anybody was consulted beforehand, even the clubs had it presented to them as a fait accompli. We meet with the FL regularly on a whole range of topics but this upcoming meeting is with the new Chairman and he's agreed to meet with representatives of clubs from up and down the country. I wouldn't call it lip service but I doubt we will influence this years trial, that seems to be going ahead with enough votes cast to warrant that. The meeting itself will be more interesting on the topic of the 'whole game solution' which will affect us even more. That for me is the real issue.
Post by: drfc1951 on July 07, 2016, 10:20:35 am
A fair few from all clubs will, 'Geoffrey it'!.
Had to think about that one but got there eventually
Post by: wing commander on July 07, 2016, 10:29:13 am
I hope this all falls round their ears...Did the new Chairmen have any input into the great plan of not putting the plans in place and getting the bigger clubs agreement first??? If so it doesn't bode well that he is up to much...
Post by: silent majority on July 07, 2016, 10:54:11 am
By the looks of it the bigger clubs are deciding against taking part because they don't want us cloggers playing on there precious turf, and would much rather play their home games at the development stadiums they rent for there 2nd team matches...ie the stadiums we play in anyway every Saturday...
I hope this all falls round their ears...Did the new Chairmen have any input into the great plan of not putting the plans in place and getting the bigger clubs agreement first??? If so it doesn't bode well that he is up to much...
It wouldn't be the Chair making those decisions, it'll be the CEO, Shaun Harvey.
Post by: The Red Baron on July 07, 2016, 11:04:58 am
By the looks of it the bigger clubs are deciding against taking part because they don't want us cloggers playing on there precious turf, and would much rather play their home games at the development stadiums they rent for there 2nd team matches...ie the stadiums we play in anyway every Saturday...
I hope this all falls round their ears...Did the new Chairmen have any input into the great plan of not putting the plans in place and getting the bigger clubs agreement first??? If so it doesn't bode well that he is up to much...
It wouldn't be the Chair making those decisions, it'll be the CEO, Shaun Harvey.
Says it all if Harvey's fingerprints are on it!
Makes you wish for the good old days of Alan Hardaker.
Post by: The Red Baron on July 07, 2016, 11:09:53 am
Did the supporters have any say in this at all,were the FSF even consulted about this...?? Maybe a question for SM to answer..He did say they had a meeting with them later this month but the rules have been ratified and released so is that just lip service to let the fans have a moan while smiling and understanding the concerns but in reality not giving a toss what we think...
It says that it helps to develop British youngsters although I wonder how many British players are in these development squads
I cant believe that clubs voted for this,in 5 or 10 years time they could look back at this moment akin to Turkeys voting for Christmas....I certainly wont be attending any of them...
I doubt anybody was consulted beforehand, even the clubs had it presented to them as a fait accompli. We meet with the FL regularly on a whole range of topics but this upcoming meeting is with the new Chairman and he's agreed to meet with representatives of clubs from up and down the country. I wouldn't call it lip service but I doubt we will influence this years trial, that seems to be going ahead with enough votes cast to warrant that. The meeting itself will be more interesting on the topic of the 'whole game solution' which will affect us even more. That for me is the real issue.
Exactly, SM.
As I've said on here before, I think the outline they are proposing has some merit, but not if the aim is simply to bring in B Teams.
Post by: The Red Baron on July 07, 2016, 02:59:48 pm
At this rate we'll be able enter our own B Team! :lol:
Post by: bpoolrover on July 07, 2016, 03:21:17 pm
Post by: The Red Baron on July 07, 2016, 03:57:23 pm
http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2016/07/07/blues-to-play-in-efl-trophy
Post by: The Red Baron on July 08, 2016, 12:40:09 pm
Reading Reserves on a Tuesday night it is.
I wonder if those clubs who voted for this hare-brained idea assumed that the likes of Spurs and Man United had already been sounded out about participating?
Post by: The Red Baron on July 08, 2016, 12:43:52 pm
The Mirror is reporting that Spurs have pulled out.
At this rate we'll be able enter our own B Team! :lol:
Wonder if they'll do the same in 11 months time when the vote happens for eight new teams in the Football League.
As I said elsewhere, the inept handling of this whole affair makes it unlikely that the FL clubs will touch the "whole game solution" with a barge pole.
Thinking back, the whole B Teams thing didn't come so much from the Premier League as from Greg Dyke and the FA. So perhaps it is not surprising that the PL clubs have not bought into this.
Post by: NickDRFC on July 08, 2016, 12:50:43 pm
Post by: The Red Baron on July 26, 2016, 02:12:12 pm
Post by: The Red Baron on July 27, 2016, 08:43:38 am
Middlesbrough Ressies on a Tuesday night anyone?
Post by: The Red Baron on July 27, 2016, 09:45:05 am
Port Vale
Rochdale
Scunthorpe
Sheff U
Shrewsbury
Walsall
Cambridge
ROVERS
Grimsby
Hartlepool
Mansfield
Notts Co
Derby B
Leicester B
Middlesbrough B
Sunderland B
Post by: NickDRFC on July 27, 2016, 09:58:52 am
Post by: The Red Baron on July 27, 2016, 10:07:16 am
Jesus Christ. The North East really is a bit of a wilderness in terms of big clubs isn't it! Are Hull not involved? I can see that Newcastle have opted out.
I don't think Hull are a Cat One academy. I think they only got Cat Two fairly recently.
Post by: The Red Baron on July 27, 2016, 10:14:58 am
Post by: The Red Baron on July 27, 2016, 10:16:53 am
Mansfield Town
Derby County Reserves
Post by: GazLaz on July 27, 2016, 10:21:38 am
Post by: Wild Rover on July 27, 2016, 11:16:35 am
Post by: MrFrost on July 27, 2016, 11:18:53 am
It goes to penalties and the winner gets 2 points I think
Post by: The Red Baron on July 27, 2016, 11:22:22 am
I don't think they are allowing draws.
It goes to penalties and the winner gets 2 points I think
Yes, drawn games a point each but then a shoot out with the winner getting a bonus point.
Post by: Wild Rover on July 27, 2016, 11:25:08 am
•Groups to include one invited club and at least one club from each of Leagues One and Two.
•Clubs to play each other once, either home or away. Invited clubs will play one home game at the club’s First Team stadium.
•Clubs will be awarded three points for a win and one point for a draw. In the event of a drawn game after ninety minutes, a penalty shootout will be held with the winning team earning an additional point.
•The top two teams will progress to the Knockout Stage.
Post by: The Mighty Brian Rowe on July 27, 2016, 12:08:11 pm
Port Vale
Mansfield Town
Derby County Reserves
Oooooh, the glamour :)
Post by: Muttley on July 27, 2016, 12:08:39 pm
Cheltenham drawn in Northern group with Bolton, Everton & Blackpool!
Cambridge in a Northern group, but Peterborough (which is further north) in a southern group!
West Ham exempted from using Olympic Stadium for their home fixture.
Still no dates for specific games so impossible for those supporters who wish to attend to book travel/time off work.
I note that Newcastle who were trumpeted as one of the teams to be part of the competition don't feature in the draw.
I will be boycotting this competition and urge all right-minded Rovers supporters to do the same. We need to show the football authorities that they cannot interfere with the integrity of the sport and its competitions by introducing arbitrary elements such as B teams / academy teams in order to satisfy the whims of the Premier League.
Post by: Muttley on July 27, 2016, 12:22:48 pm
Match Day 1 – w/c 29th August 2016
Port Vale v Derby County
Mansfield Town v Doncaster Rovers
Match Day 2 – w/c 3rd October 2016
Doncaster Rovers v Derby County
Port Vale v Mansfield Town
Match Day 3 – w/c 7th November 2016
Doncaster Rovers v Port Vale
Derby County v Mansfield Town
We don't even get the "bonus" of a trip to Pride Park so that we can gaze in wonderment at the auspicious surroundings, the likes of which we have never seen before.
Post by: wing commander on July 27, 2016, 01:08:39 pm
It was difficult to imagine how they could find a bigger idiot than the last one but step forward Mr Harvey....All these big organisations (IOC,fifa,efl) don't give a toss about fans its always what's in it for them....
Post by: Alan Southstand on July 27, 2016, 01:25:31 pm
Post by: Draytonian III on July 27, 2016, 01:35:21 pm
Post by: Drover on July 27, 2016, 01:43:59 pm
With our injury situation as it is, its a competition we could do without.
Can we play alot of youth too?or is it not allowed?If they make it a farce,then why should we be able to treat it like a farce back to them.
Also,theres a 5 week gap inbetween each game,is it just me who find that strange?15 weeks to complete a 3 game group?
Post by: wing commander on July 27, 2016, 02:09:32 pm
Post by: Drover on July 27, 2016, 02:17:29 pm
Post by: The Red Baron on July 27, 2016, 02:27:33 pm
Post by: RoversAlias on July 27, 2016, 05:50:53 pm
Post by: DonnyOsmond on July 27, 2016, 10:57:17 pm
Post by: Sammy Chung was King on July 27, 2016, 11:48:19 pm
Post by: The Red Baron on July 28, 2016, 08:31:00 am
With our injury situation as it is, its a competition we could do without.
Can we play alot of youth too?or is it not allowed?If they make it a farce,then why should we be able to treat it like a farce back to them.
Also,theres a 5 week gap inbetween each game,is it just me who find that strange?15 weeks to complete a 3 game group?
The competition rules state that L1 and L2 clubs must field full strength sides or face a fine of £5000. Of course there are ways of getting round this (a sudden crop of injuries) but I think the FL will be watching out for any club that fields their under 21s or youth team.
Have to say I like the idea I've seen from Oxford and Portsmouth fans that those boycotting the games should offer to donate the ticket price to cover any fines!
As for the dates, they are exactly the same as they would have been for the usual first three rounds. I agree it is a bit of a nonsense for a group format though.
Post by: idler on July 28, 2016, 09:40:21 am
That didn't go down well with City fans either as a lack of respect.
Post by: The Red Baron on July 28, 2016, 09:43:03 am
A few seasons ago Gary Megson brought a couple of players off very early during a tie with Bradford City, laughing as he did so.
That didn't go down well with City fans either as a lack of respect.
It was a proper competition in those days. Now it has been totally devalued I wouldn't blame any manager who decided to circumvent the rules.
Post by: Muttley on July 28, 2016, 01:29:58 pm
As for the dates, they are exactly the same as they would have been for the usual first three rounds.
Unless you're called Chelsea, in which case you can pick and choose dates to suit yourself.
Post by: The Red Baron on July 28, 2016, 01:34:46 pm
As for the dates, they are exactly the same as they would have been for the usual first three rounds.
Unless you're called Chelsea, in which case you can pick and choose dates to suit yourself.
True, but that illustrates one of the problems with the competition. The first few rounds are scheduled to coincide with international breaks. Most of the biggest clubs lose their U-21 players to international duty.
You'd think someone in the EFL might have thought of this...
Post by: The Red Baron on July 28, 2016, 01:51:01 pm
http://www.londonnewsonline.co.uk/2435/dons-boss-efl-trophy-changes-slapdash/
Post by: drfchound on July 28, 2016, 05:51:53 pm
How is it decided which venue games are at?. As each team plays each other just once, its entirely possible DRFC could be at home to Derby, but away at the other 2, losing the away games, but drawing with derby ( assuming a positive result is not required in group stage), so one point for DRFC and competition at an end. Conversely DRFC may be away at Derby and home to other 2, winning home games and going through to KO stage. Strange way of doing things.
Or..... Rovers could win all three games and go through....or win one at home and one away and go through......or win one, draw two and win two penalty shoot outs and go through......or perhaps some other combination.
Post by: Woodhead Passer on August 02, 2016, 12:53:02 pm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36953689 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36953689)
Post by: Mr1Croft on August 02, 2016, 05:56:33 pm
Portsmouth fans planning on going to the EFL Trophy games, then walk out straight after the game kicks off.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36953689 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36953689)
Again, like a Boycott needs 100% buy in from all concerned. Pompey being fan owned probably means there is sufficient cause for the fans not to directly starve money from the club.
Personally I'd rather boycott, if all fans did the same then all clubs would suffer financially and therefore have no choice but to vote with their feet next year when asked if these changes should be permanent.
Post by: silent majority on August 02, 2016, 07:02:38 pm
Post by: arkseyrover on August 02, 2016, 07:36:02 pm
Post by: Muttley on August 02, 2016, 09:26:28 pm
I'll give the competition a chance - in principle, the idea of academy teams playing in a mens tournament isn't necessarily a bad thing,
It really, really is.
L1 & L2 clubs assemble their teams under strict financial rules and then compete on (relatively) equal terms. No such restriction on the multi-million pound youth squads at Chelsea et al.
The EFL Trophy rules only allow minor changes to the regular "first team" for L1 & L2 clubs, but place no such demands on the participating Premiership/Championship teams who are only restricted by age conditions.
The rationale for the Premiership/Championship teams joining the EFLT is to aid their players improvement which will in turn impove the England national squad!!! But there's no requirement for them to only play their English youth!
If the Premiership/Championship teams really want to play in the EFLT, they should try getting themselves relegated a couple of divisions. And if they want their precious youngsters to get a bit more competitive game time, then why don't they set up their own league or cup competition, rather than spoiling someone else's competition and chance of a day out at Wembley.
Post by: Muttley on August 02, 2016, 10:43:31 pm
Or maybe the Prem teams can hold off from buying every Tom Dick and Harry at 7 years old before chucking them on the scrapheap and allow them to develop more naturally at lower league clubs.
The only scope this idea has got is to destroy the whole integrity of the existing league system.
What next? International B teams in the World Cup?
Post by: Sammy Chung was King on August 03, 2016, 01:59:48 am
This is unneccesary meddling, because the national team failed. I'm all for trying to improve things for us to better at tournaments, but what was wrong with the loan system, as was?.
If they want to help england, give the national manager a training camp, once a month for 2-3 days. Have a midseason break around christmas.
Stop rewarding young lads far too early, giving them too much money, too soon, and taking away motivation to do better.
Instead of just loaning our english kids to local clubs lower down, loan them abroad as well, it would improve them in all sorts of ways. And get the coaching lower down improved, and make courses to become a top coach, affordable to the ordinary man!.
Post by: The Red Baron on August 03, 2016, 07:44:30 am
They could play against "men" in their own Prem/Champ reserve/youth/old pro's league, without compromising the integrity of someone else's competition.
Or maybe the Prem teams can hold off from buying every Tom Dick and Harry at 7 years old before chucking them on the scrapheap and allow them to develop more naturally at lower league clubs.
The only scope this idea has got is to destroy the whole integrity of the existing league system.
What next? International B teams in the World Cup?
High time that limits were placed on the numbers of professionals, particularly Development players, that big clubs can register. It would allow a greater spread of talent through the game and let players find their proper level.
It is the logical counterpart to the loan changes that have been brought in.
Post by: idler on August 03, 2016, 07:47:50 am
They will be wanting to cut the Premier League down to get the games in next.
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on August 03, 2016, 07:55:10 am
Or maybe the Prem teams can hold off from buying every Tom Dick and Harry at 7 years old before chucking them on the scrapheap and allow them to develop more naturally at lower league clubs.
This is the key issue, clubs taking on hundreds of youngsters and keeping many in so called development teams etc when in reality they just aren't good enough. The Whitehouse and Mckay transfers to Leeds prove that. None of the three were anything like good enough but clubs like that have circa 40-50 players in first team/development teams.
A better model would be bigger clubs linking up with the smaller clubs to get the players out on loan or even sold with first purchase offers etc. Put the funding in to better facilities at the lower levels and then everyone wins.
Post by: The Red Baron on August 03, 2016, 08:09:53 am
The mid winter break will mean starting the season earlier or finishing later. This reduces time for lucrative pre-season tours so are they going to squeeze games in during the break. What about every two years when it's the World Cup or Euros?
They will be wanting to cut the Premier League down to get the games in next.
Idler,
The logic of the FL's Whole Game Solution would see the PL cut to 18 or even 16. It seems illogical to have Leagues 2 and 3 the same size as the PL. Fixture congestion is arguably a bigger problem for Man United than it is for Donny Rovers.
Post by: RedJ on August 03, 2016, 11:45:12 am
Or maybe the Prem teams can hold off from buying every Tom Dick and Harry at 7 years old before chucking them on the scrapheap and allow them to develop more naturally at lower league clubs.
This is the key issue, clubs taking on hundreds of youngsters and keeping many in so called development teams etc when in reality they just aren't good enough. The Whitehouse and Mckay transfers to Leeds prove that. None of the three were anything like good enough but clubs like that have circa 40-50 players in first team/development teams.
A better model would be bigger clubs linking up with the smaller clubs to get the players out on loan or even sold with first purchase offers etc. Put the funding in to better facilities at the lower levels and then everyone wins.
Aye but that comes dangerously close to "feeder club" status, which I think is barred in England.
Post by: idler on August 03, 2016, 07:13:46 pm
Man Unt. and the rest want the best of both worlds though. They want to be in every competition going as long as possible, have the best players possible so obviously internationals will cause problems. They also want to be going to every corner of the globe at every opportunity to promote the club brand.The mid winter break will mean starting the season earlier or finishing later. This reduces time for lucrative pre-season tours so are they going to squeeze games in during the break. What about every two years when it's the World Cup or Euros?
They will be wanting to cut the Premier League down to get the games in next.
Idler,
The logic of the FL's Whole Game Solution would see the PL cut to 18 or even 16. It seems illogical to have Leagues 2 and 3 the same size as the PL. Fixture congestion is arguably a bigger problem for Man United than it is for Donny Rovers.
When I started watching football there were 92 league clubs and fair enough bigger clubs got a bigger say. Now even the Premier League is more or less three divisions in one. Eventually it will implode because of greed, hypocrisy and the total abuse of the fans that are the life blood of the sport.
Post by: The Red Baron on August 04, 2016, 04:32:32 pm
http://mobile.efl.com//news/article/2016/checkatrade-check-in-as-trophy-title-sponsor-3225432.aspx
Post by: bobjimwilly on August 04, 2016, 05:16:46 pm
Post by: The Red Baron on August 17, 2016, 10:32:12 am
http://spfl.co.uk/challenge-cup/results/
They have under 20s rather than under 23s.
Post by: The Red Baron on August 17, 2016, 10:34:12 am
Now the Checkatrade Trophy.
http://mobile.efl.com//news/article/2016/checkatrade-check-in-as-trophy-title-sponsor-3225432.aspx
Best name I have heard for it is the "Chaka Khan Trophy."
Maybe because ain't nobody gonna watch it!
So, for Paint Pot read Chaka Khan.
Post by: Sammy Chung was King on August 18, 2016, 12:30:54 am
Post by: The Red Baron on August 18, 2016, 05:20:27 pm
Post by: mattco on August 18, 2016, 07:07:28 pm
Post by: Retdon1 on August 18, 2016, 07:11:12 pm
Post by: The Red Baron on August 26, 2016, 09:00:45 am
http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-united/james-shield-s-sheffield-united-column-what-a-complete-and-utter-farce-1-8089791
Post by: bobjimwilly on August 31, 2016, 12:07:25 pm
Photos showing empty grounds as fans across football boycott EFL Trophy (http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/photos-showing-empty-grounds-as-fans-across-football-boycott-efl-trophy/story-29669235-detail/story.html)
Checkatrade Trophy: Low crowds & manager cameos (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37226544)
Post by: Sammy Chung was King on September 01, 2016, 12:29:17 am
I didn't realise the same thing was happening in Scotland with the Irn-Bru Trophy.
http://spfl.co.uk/challenge-cup/results/
They have under 20s rather than under 23s.
I noticed the same, i suspect that's where the idea came from. For me there was nothing that a few tweaks here and there wouldn't have solved with the loan system. It was pretty much bang on just a few loop holes needed tightening.
The young players got experience from getting of their comfort zone and dropping down the league's to learn.
How playing a few games in a third rate cup, because that's what they have made it, is supposed to improve our chances for england i have no idea. The young players would learn more joining foreign sides as well as having stints in the lower league's, then you have the best of both worlds.
Post by: idler on September 01, 2016, 09:26:05 am
The foreign lads won't like the physicality and neither will their clubs.
Any cards only count in this competition as well so you won't miss league games.
Post by: RedJ on September 01, 2016, 09:35:41 am
I didn't realise the same thing was happening in Scotland with the Irn-Bru Trophy.
http://spfl.co.uk/challenge-cup/results/
They have under 20s rather than under 23s.
I noticed the same, i suspect that's where the idea came from. For me there was nothing that a few tweaks here and there wouldn't have solved with the loan system. It was pretty much bang on just a few loop holes needed tightening.
Well not sure what loans have to do with this, but...
In response to your point, it was FIFA that ended the emergency loans system. It was actually scrapped a few years ago but the FA got us a few extra years.
Post by: bpoolrover on September 01, 2016, 01:17:17 pm
Post by: glosterred on September 01, 2016, 06:11:44 pm
COYR
Post by: Muttley on September 01, 2016, 06:26:44 pm
The tickets for the Derby and Port Vale games are now available, I have bought mine and will be there supporting my team, Doncaster Rovers and not the competition.
COYR
Give Rovers a shout from me then, cos I will definitely not be there!
Post by: glosterred on September 01, 2016, 07:01:48 pm
The tickets for the Derby and Port Vale games are now available, I have bought mine and will be there supporting my team, Doncaster Rovers and not the competition.
COYR
Give Rovers a shout from me then, cos I will definitely not be there!
Will do
COYR
Post by: Sammy Chung was King on September 02, 2016, 01:08:15 am
I didn't realise the same thing was happening in Scotland with the Irn-Bru Trophy.
http://spfl.co.uk/challenge-cup/results/
They have under 20s rather than under 23s.
I noticed the same, i suspect that's where the idea came from. For me there was nothing that a few tweaks here and there wouldn't have solved with the loan system. It was pretty much bang on just a few loop holes needed tightening.
Well not sure what loans have to do with this, but...
In response to your point, it was FIFA that ended the emergency loans system. It was actually scrapped a few years ago but the FA got us a few extra years.
My brain tends to wander in other directions from the post at hand. I have only found that out myself watching the transfer window programme on five live.
Post by: bobjimwilly on October 04, 2016, 11:19:15 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wXcK1fBuz8
Another man from the FA suggesting, in his opinion, the EFL Trophy is perfect to develop young players from Premier League and Championship academies. He briefly mentions it's a good platform for teams "throughout the leagues" to improve their younger players; obviously is not aware that "Each EFL Club shall play its full available strength in and during all Matches." (EFL Trophy Rules (http://www.efl.com/global/trophyrules.aspx)). These videos just come across as the EFL still trying to justify the ridiculous rule changes :thumbdown:
Post by: bobjimwilly on October 04, 2016, 11:35:51 am
Post by: wing commander on October 04, 2016, 12:10:05 pm
Post by: DonnyOsmond on October 04, 2016, 12:32:56 pm
I agree with Karl Robinson. Competition is changed to help develop young players yet we get punished for playing ours, it's ridiculous.
Also, looking back at this page I reckon Paul McKay would be pushing for a place in our team this season but not the other two.
Post by: selby on October 04, 2016, 01:30:06 pm
Post by: IDM on October 04, 2016, 01:33:09 pm
Play the regional groups in pre season..
Post by: The Red Baron on October 05, 2016, 06:14:22 am
We used to have them and I can remember some games being poorly attended then.
Post by: bobjimwilly on October 05, 2016, 10:27:51 am
Post by: glosterred on October 05, 2016, 02:27:28 pm
COYR
Post by: selby on October 05, 2016, 03:08:52 pm
It is also showing up how weak the current academy system is at our bigger clubs, as well as the coaching of the young players.Not many players seam to have any individual flair, or confidence to do the unexpected.
Lets hope a more acceptable format to the fans of the smaller clubs can be found for next season.
As for myself ,I find it funny that after one game sides like Derby are having to resort to first team players to be competative,while we seam to think it O.K. to play our younger players(or if you like a weekand team)to protect the fist team players in smaller sqauds.
It comes down to quality,they are not as good as they think,and the lower league sides are better than the vast majority of supporters think they are.
Post by: roversdude on October 05, 2016, 06:24:58 pm
Post by: Sammy Chung was King on October 06, 2016, 01:35:32 am
Play the regional groups in pre season..
A good idea that. Play so many pre season games then make this cup the traditional 'curtain opener'.
Post by: albie on November 08, 2016, 03:09:57 pm
The revamped EFL Trophy is a complete and utter failure – and here’s why | John Ashdown | Football | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/nov/08/efl-trophy-football-league-failure)
I think gates will be very low again, discredited competition and parky weather.
I hope whoever dreamed up this idea is found a less demanding role in future.
Post by: The Red Baron on November 08, 2016, 04:50:12 pm
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-cup-that-is-dividing-football-x36b0v6cb?shareToken=640c66625ba96a615474880818a183ba
I actually think he's used the competition pretty well, although I think he's really used it in place of a Development Team.
However, he's right that if two B Teams reach the final it will be a bit of a disaster. I'd say it will be if one gets there.
Post by: DearneValleyRover on November 08, 2016, 06:27:25 pm
Just wonder, if and it is an if, Rovers got to the final, how many of those who have been boycotting the games will come out of the woodwork and support Rovers at Wembley?
COYR
I wouldn't go.
Post by: Prez on November 08, 2016, 06:57:40 pm
Post by: Superspy on November 08, 2016, 07:43:36 pm
I'm glad it seems to be shaping up as a massive failure...much like a lot of us predicted it to be.
Post by: The Red Baron on November 08, 2016, 07:49:10 pm
Post by: Superspy on November 08, 2016, 07:56:48 pm
The daftness of the rules – which, it should be pointed out, are not new this season – leads to situations such as Bradford City substituting their goalkeeper Colin Doyle after three minutes of their game against Bury. “I thought he had a poor 45 seconds,” said the Bantams’ assistant manager, Kenny Black.
Post by: drfchound on November 08, 2016, 08:50:48 pm
Post by: NickDRFC on November 08, 2016, 09:04:27 pm
Post by: GazLaz on November 08, 2016, 09:53:58 pm
Peter Crouch, a very promising under 21's player and a possible England player if he gains sufficient experience from playing in this competition.
Don't you think their young lads benefit from playing along side him though? I do.
Post by: Retdon1 on November 08, 2016, 10:00:35 pm
Peter Crouch, a very promising under 21's player and a possible England player if he gains sufficient experience from playing in this competition.
Don't you think their young lads benefit from playing along side him though? I do.
Problem is they only had 2 or 3 young English lads in there side
Post by: steve@dcfd on November 08, 2016, 10:01:47 pm
Post by: drfchound on November 08, 2016, 10:10:05 pm
Peter Crouch, a very promising under 21's player and a possible England player if he gains sufficient experience from playing in this competition.
Don't you think their young lads benefit from playing along side him though? I do.
To be fair Gaz, the competition is designed to give playing experience to young English players and not too many of them are getting game time.
Post by: steve@dcfd on November 08, 2016, 10:24:09 pm
Peter Crouch, a very promising under 21's player and a possible England player if he gains sufficient experience from playing in this competition.
Don't you think their young lads benefit from playing along side him though? I do.
To be fair Gaz, the competition is designed to give playing experience to young English players and not too many of them are getting game time.
You are right it should be U21 from the premier U21 leagues but our young professionals have got games and three good results.
Post by: DonnyOsmond on November 08, 2016, 10:56:50 pm
Post by: Draytonian III on November 08, 2016, 10:58:23 pm
Post by: Dagenham Rover on November 08, 2016, 10:59:41 pm
Post by: The Red Baron on November 08, 2016, 11:02:07 pm
Restrict PL and Championship sides to Under-21s only, and don't penalise L1 & L2 sides for playing who they want and you've got the basis of a competition.
We have used it extremely well. Lots of experience for the youngsters and we've qualified. Teams like Norwich who are stuffed full of reserve teamers in their late 20s are the real problem.
Post by: idler on November 09, 2016, 12:06:33 am
Well, back in August, I said I'd give this competition a chance even though I was skeptical.Why use the US spelling of sceptical Rigo.
Given that the 'experiment' (where has that term been used before?) is now over, I'm even more skeptical about it - given that a significant number of 'youth' teams have opted to field what could by and large be classed as first team players.
I've given it a fair chance, seen a couple of games, and I don't think it's worked.
Karl Robinson summed it up perfectly a while ago, then some of these teams took the urine sample, threw it in the face of the Football League, and made the tournament appear even less credible.
Hopefully, the 'experiment' won't go any further and it'll go back to being a bog standard straight knockout competition next season - maybe with invited teams from the upper echelons of the Conference Premier.
I hate yanks messing with our language. Somebody in Poldark even said snuck as opposed to sneaked yesterday. In 18th century England even.
Rant over.😉
Post by: eastender on November 09, 2016, 01:13:49 am
tonights attendance 1,495 (including 92 from Vale)
That's more than 4 times as many as Middlesbrough (308) got against Shrewsbury.
In other news Oxford and Chelsea were involved in the longest Penalty shoot out in English Football , 34 pens were taken before Oxford lost ,but still went through.
The second round draw will take place on Thursday morning at 10.30am,
Post by: Sammy Chung was King on November 09, 2016, 02:17:22 am
I'm not adverse to change if i can see a good idea. The penalties if a game ends up a draw is good experience for young players who might one day pull on the national shirt.
The problem is the way it has been packaged it has turned too many fans away so the taking a penalty in front of a full stadium isn't happening.
How i see it, it has given us a few more games where we can have a look at young players who need some experience. Tonight's line up for us was probably stronger than the one picked for the Oldham game. That i found a touch strange i think the stronger line up should have been in the FA cup
Post by: dijit8 on November 09, 2016, 01:32:17 pm
Extend international breaks to all 4 divisions and play these international break fixtures in the midweeks freed up by scrapping the EFL trophy.
Yes I enjoyed Cardiff and its great to be at Wembley for the final but the poor turnouts and lack of interest from most clubs (and fans) unless they get to the later stages doesn't merit the competition staying.
Not sure what the EFL get from sponsorship but i am sure they can come up with ways of recouping this somehow.
Post by: IDM on November 09, 2016, 01:57:39 pm
3rd and 4th division teams only ie 48 clubs. 16 mini groups of 3 teams= 2 games each, then a qualifying round of either the top 2 (32 teams) or the mini group leaders (16 teams). You then have 4 or 3 further rounds later in the season, including the final. Each club gets to play at least 2 games and one home one away, in the groups of 3.
Post by: The Red Baron on November 10, 2016, 09:55:21 am
Going to be Oldham, isn't it?
Post by: bobbymax on November 10, 2016, 09:56:30 am
I have said it before, and I will say it again. Make the group stages as local as you can and play them as pre-season games. You'll still have time for 3 or 4 other friendlies, as well as getting the fixtures out of the way. Delay the later rounds until after the FA Cup 3rd round, so that most clubs would by then be out of the FA and League cups.Far too sensible a suggestion for Shaun Harvey and his cronies
3rd and 4th division teams only ie 48 clubs. 16 mini groups of 3 teams= 2 games each, then a qualifying round of either the top 2 (32 teams) or the mini group leaders (16 teams). You then have 4 or 3 further rounds later in the season, including the final. Each club gets to play at least 2 games and one home one away, in the groups of 3.
Post by: Drover on November 10, 2016, 10:38:04 am
Post by: Drover on November 10, 2016, 10:39:07 am
Post by: GazLaz on November 10, 2016, 10:41:27 am
Post by: The Red Baron on November 10, 2016, 10:54:03 am
Post by: knockers on November 10, 2016, 11:02:39 am
Post by: GazLaz on November 10, 2016, 11:34:37 am
Post by: Mac the hooped man on November 10, 2016, 11:52:57 am
Nobody cares!Thanks for speaking up on my behalf. So much appreciated.. I don't think!!
Post by: IDM on November 10, 2016, 11:57:05 am
Post by: selby on November 10, 2016, 12:15:26 pm
The format this year is nothing the club can do about.
Stop harping on and making excuses or pretend you are on your own crusade,get down and back the team.
Post by: bobjimwilly on November 10, 2016, 12:29:51 pm
Stop harping on and making excuses or pretend you are on your own crusade,get down and back the team.
you gonna get down of that horse soon selby?
Post by: glosterred on November 10, 2016, 12:36:53 pm
COYR
Post by: selby on November 10, 2016, 01:03:55 pm
We have used the competition the right way,our manager has been great with his selections, and has used the rules to our advantage.
That's all the club can do this season, and has to get on with an unpopular situation.
The supporters who have not attended have missed out on some good performances by our youngsters,who have mostly rubbished the early season thoughts that our squad lacked depth.
The competition is far from perfect,but I feel has been good for the Rovers by giving the younger players an opportunity.
Post by: IDM on November 10, 2016, 01:57:23 pm
Post by: bobjimwilly on November 10, 2016, 02:06:55 pm
It's unfortunate but the only way to make the EFL consider their decisions more seriously in future, and maybe even listen to us fans, is to boycott the competition. I'm sure those fans that do boycott feel bad for not supporting the team and still want them to do well.
Post by: Lincoln Rover on November 10, 2016, 02:25:19 pm
However if Donny Rovers were playing a comptetive game then I will try my level headed best to get there. The two home games in this comp have been good to watch and get me out of the house.
Mrs Lincoln Rover can ( quite rightly) question my sanity for a three hour round trip for an EFL trophy game, but when it's Donny or watching catch up to on Neighbours, I know why I'll rather be.
Post by: The Red Baron on November 10, 2016, 02:52:21 pm
This season's fiasco has been another reason not to bother, but I have followed the team's efforts and I do think we've derived some benefits from it.
Would I go to the Final if we got there? Probably, but I'd think long and hard if we were playing a B Team.
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on November 10, 2016, 03:25:04 pm
Post by: selby on November 10, 2016, 04:02:17 pm
I dont think that is right,in seven pages of this subject nobody has posted that supporters should go to the matches,so why give credence to those not supporting the club and wanting everyone to know.
They should be contacting the F.L.the only people that will change the format,and yes I have by the way,and admittedly have had no reply as yet.
Post by: Colin C No.3 on November 10, 2016, 04:03:10 pm
I'm still very skeptical about the benefits of this new format, but I'm prepared to give it a chance over the course of the season.
I think everyone is acutely aware of where it's leading in the long-term (or where the Premier League wants it to lead), but I hope '20,000 turning up at Tottenham' or wherever else, doesn't get blurred with the actual player development.
If they want to develop their precious darlings through competitive game time, why don't they just set up their own league/cup competitions?
I think their point is that they want to test them in a different age group (i.e. mens football and not Under 21s/18s or whatever).
For me, the best policy is still to loan the young players out (just on six-month deals now to get around FIFAs new rules) and let them learn that way.
We'll see how it works out. I have my reservations...
Don't get splinters up your arse sitting on that fence.
This competition makes The Anglo Scottish Cup look like the Champions League!
Post by: IDM on November 10, 2016, 08:26:05 pm
If the top leagues want to have a tournament for their development squads - for all the right reasons and to develop young english players - then so be it. Just not this one.
Post by: Muttley on November 10, 2016, 08:50:08 pm
If they want to have a cup competition to give their starlets a bit of experience, then why don't they just devise their own cup competition? The EFL were incredibly conceited to think that fans of lower league teams would bow down to worship the glory of these PL kids, and even more misguided in the belief that this farce would help the England team improve.
Post by: IDM on November 10, 2016, 09:06:22 pm
No it was a bad idea in principle. This competition is a cup for lower division sides, for a realistic chance to reach a national cup final like we did 10 seasons ago..
If the top leagues want to have a tournament for their development squads - for all the right reasons and to develop young english players - then so be it. Just not this one.
I completely disagree with the 'it's always been a competition for lower league sides, so it should stay that way' argument.
Most Under 18s (and 21s) need to develop as both individuals and players, as the gulf between senior/youth football is huge. For every Jack Grealish, who can probably handle himself in mens football straight away, there's plenty who can't.
So the two options are to either get out on loan (but that's become tougher with the emergency loan rules from this season), or compete in a tournament like this which was probably aimed to bridge that gap.
The problem is it's gone from Premier League academy teams to Category One Under 23 teams, to Derby County naming Jason Shackell and others, Stoke City naming Peter Crouch and Norwich City naming what can by and large be classed as reserve team players.
So, essentially, quite a lot of players in Under 21 academy teams have missed out on this opportunity which was presented to them when the concept first came to light, and the whole thing has become an even bigger farce than what it was when Premier League teams started withdrawing and attendances plummeted to just a few hundred at some games.
The quite simple conclusion, in my opinion, is that the format hasn't worked.
What is wrong with leaving well alone???
and no, it was not aimed to bridge any gap, the Associate Members Cup, in its subsequent guises, has been going since 1983/4 and apart from a little period involving Conference sides, has always been for lower league clubs..
By all means find a way to help develop the young players at top teams, so why not do that elsewhere?
You have concluded that this hasn't worked, so it was wrong in the first place??
Post by: roversontheup on November 10, 2016, 09:42:03 pm
By all means come up with some plan for developing English under age players but NOT this competition!
Post by: Dagenham Rover on November 10, 2016, 09:57:56 pm
No it was a bad idea in principle. This competition is a cup for lower division sides, for a realistic chance to reach a national cup final like we did 10 seasons ago..
If the top leagues want to have a tournament for their development squads - for all the right reasons and to develop young english players - then so be it. Just not this one.
I completely disagree with the 'it's always been a competition for lower league sides, so it should stay that way' argument.
Most Under 18s (and 21s) need to develop as both individuals and players, as the gulf between senior/youth football is huge. For every Jack Grealish, who can probably handle himself in mens football straight away, there's plenty who can't.
So the two options are to either get out on loan (but that's become tougher with the emergency loan rules from this season), or compete in a tournament like this which was probably aimed to bridge that gap.
The problem is it's gone from Premier League academy teams to Category One Under 23 teams, to Derby County naming Jason Shackell and others, Stoke City naming Peter Crouch and Norwich City naming what can by and large be classed as reserve team players.
So, essentially, quite a lot of players in Under 21 academy teams have missed out on this opportunity which was presented to them when the concept first came to light, and the whole thing has become an even bigger farce than what it was when Premier League teams started withdrawing and attendances plummeted to just a few hundred at some games.
The quite simple conclusion, in my opinion, is that the format hasn't worked.No it was a bad idea in principle. This competition is a cup for lower division sides, for a realistic chance to reach a national cup final like we did 10 seasons ago..
If the top leagues want to have a tournament for their development squads - for all the right reasons and to develop young english players - then so be it. Just not this one.
totally agree, however they aren't using it to to develop young English players if they were it might just have added a tiny little bit of credence to to the format but not much :)
Post by: The Red Baron on November 11, 2016, 01:59:37 pm
https://mobile.twitter.com/AgainstLeague3/status/797072631069556736?p=v
Post by: RedJ on November 11, 2016, 02:34:13 pm
Post by: DonnyOsmond on November 11, 2016, 03:13:16 pm
Post by: albie on November 16, 2016, 07:28:58 pm
Luton furious as English Football League fines 12 clubs for breaching ‘full strength’ policy | Football News | Sky Sports (http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11735/10659767/luton-furious-as-english-football-league-fines-12-clubs-for-breaching-8216full-strength8217-policy)
Others treated more leniently, but still punished.
Post by: Superspy on November 16, 2016, 07:38:25 pm
"That is clearly disingenuous and by fining us this amount the EFL is effectively saying that promoting young talent is only acceptable if they're with an EPPP1 club, and they are depriving their own member clubs' young players access to first-team football."
Post by: bobjimwilly on November 23, 2016, 02:38:19 pm