Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: NickDRFC on July 10, 2016, 05:30:52 pm
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Gary Lineker has just suggested that it's Andy Murray. I'm struggling to disagree.
The floor is open...
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Rigo casting the net.
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Daley Thompson was great at ten sports not just one so he should get it!
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Not going to bite. The only other plausible name I can think of right now is Steve Redgrave.
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Rigo casting the net.
Fishermen never win SPOTY !
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Andy Murray? Greatest British sportsman of all time?
Christ, we don't half get things out of perspective. He's a very, very good tennis player, but he's not even in the top three globally in his era.
You have to choose someone who's dominated his event globally for a long period.
No question: Phil Taylor.
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Gary Lineker has just suggested that it's Andy Murray. I'm struggling to disagree.
The floor is open...
Trouble is you have to compare apples with pears.
Individual sports person v Team Sports person and then the same discussion on the sports persons effect on his or her Sport be that Tennis or Rowing or F1 or Football.
Is Hamilton "better" than Mansell or Stirling Moss . I say yes
Is Murray the best Tennis Player we have produced ? Lets say yes for the sake of argument
Now is Hamilton "better" than Murray ? I would say yes (but its very subjective) and I have not added Lester Piggott AP McCoy for Racing Booby Moore Bobby Charlton for Footy Daley Thompson Athletics Sir Steve Redgrave Rowing Chris Froome Cycling
Cant be done imo
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I'll see your Phil Taylor and raise with Arthur Shufflebottom. 9 times fives and threes champion and crib grand master.
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There's nothing to bite at anyway, unless you're really becoming that precious.
Anyway, Lennox Lewis?
The question "who is the greatest British sportsman of all time" you named someone who had a half decent playing career north of the border and didn't represent his country. Admittedly he was then arguably the finest manager (note manager, not player) of his or any other generation.
You're either fishing or a f***ing idiot.
Congratulations on reeling me in.
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Actually, it's got to be Big Daddy.
He never, EVER lost. And look at the size of some of his opponents. Big Daddy was a phenomenon.
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Actually, it's got to be Big Daddy.
He never, EVER lost. And look at the size of some of his opponents. Big Daddy was a phenomenon.
Kendo Nagasaki beat him
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CB Fry!
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Andy Murray? Greatest British sportsman of all time?
Christ, we don't half get things out of perspective. He's a very, very good tennis player, but he's not even in the top three globally in his era.
You have to choose someone who's dominated his event globally for a long period.
No question: Phil Taylor.
I Have to disagree. He's been in top three for some time. Federer, Nadal, Djok..to get to 10 GS finals and win 3 is top class.
Phil Taylor just plays a pub game
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Mark Cavendish and Froome
Murray
Hamilton
J Root, Anderson, Cook, Broad
Itoje, Haskell,
Definitely blessed with great sports people at the moment
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Fred Perry won 10 major titles including Wimbledon three times and 4 Grand Slams - and he was also world Table Tennis Champion at the same time.
Andy Murray isn't even the greatest British tennis player of all time - never mind all-round sportsman. Wait till he has his own clothing range, then he might be close.
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Mark Cavendish and Froome
Murray
Hamilton
J Root, Anderson, Cook, Broad
Itoje, Haskell,
Definitely blessed with great sports people at the moment
Wiggins has virtually done it all on the bike so arguably him too.
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Fred Perry didn't play in the same era as 3 players who could arguably be called the 3 finest players of all time. If Murray had been born ten years earlier this wouldn't even be up for debate.
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Fred Perry won 10 major titles including Wimbledon three times and 4 Grand Slams - and he was also world Table Tennis Champion at the same time.
Andy Murray isn't even the greatest British tennis player of all time - never mind all-round sportsman. Wait till he has his own clothing range, then he might be close.
Murray would beat Perry though
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Well yeah, he's dead...
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Andy Murray? Greatest British sportsman of all time?
Christ, we don't half get things out of perspective. He's a very, very good tennis player, but he's not even in the top three globally in his era.
You have to choose someone who's dominated his event globally for a long period.
No question: Phil Taylor.
I Have to disagree. He's been in top three for some time. Federer, Nadal, Djok..to get to 10 GS finals and win 3 is top class.
Phil Taylor just plays a pub game
Coventry.
You misunderstand me.
When people look back on the period 2000-2020, or 2005-2020, they won't have Andy Murray in the top 3 of the era.
And I think you missed the sarcastic note about Phil Taylor. I figured that if we were going to consider Stephen Hendry, we ought to be also considering the REAL maestros of athletic endeavour.
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If we're talking sportspeople who have for some period or in some way dominated their respective sports then I would throw in names such as;
Jonathan Edwards
Lennox Lewis
Brownlee Brothers
Chris Froome
Kevin Keegan
Tanni Grey-Thompson
Gareth Bale I think will be a contender in a few years time, as will Ennis if she can do it at two Olympics. I can't take Redgrave seriously. Sitting in a boat with his middle class chums in a past-time not many people take part in in the first place.
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There is a blindingly obvious one that no-one has mentioned, who wins hands down for me.
Mo Farah.
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BST - Mo Farah was another I thought but hadn't mentioned. Good shout.
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There is a blindingly obvious one that no-one has mentioned, who wins hands down for me.
Mo Farah.
Only done it at one Olympics though, whereas plenty of others have done it at two. Why would he come above those?
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We are very very fortunate....definitely punch above our weight.
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Because he has utterly dominated his events at every major championship for 6 years.
He doesn't just peak for Olympic Games. He has been consistently pretty much untouchable on a consistent basis for years.
That puts him in extremely rare company in the history of his sport. Probably only Usain Bolt can unequivocally say he has a better record.
I can't think of any other British sportsman in a serious sport who has so utterly dominated his global competitors for so long.
Maybe Daley Thompson.
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I can't think of any other British sportsman in a serious sport who has so utterly dominated his global competitors for so long.
Then Chris Hoy must have slipped your mind. A man who has done it at 3 Olympics and unequivocally dominated for 10 years.
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Gary Lineker has just suggested that it's Andy Murray. I'm struggling to disagree.
The floor is open...
if you are proposing a scottie dog
you've got to put George best in ?
uk
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Yeah, good one.
I guess he slipped your mind too in your original list. Sunday nights, eh?
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Chris Hoy is always on my mind.
Anyway, my list was slightly left-field. I think probably only one of those names (Lewis) would get in a top-10 list if it was put to popular vote.
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Everyone seems to be forgetting James Hayter, that one goal is worth more than just 2 Wimbledon titles!
COYR
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Everyone seems to be forgetting James Hayter, that one goal is worth more than just 2 Wimbledon titles!
COYR
Chris Balderstone.
Played in a County Championship match and Football League match on the same day.
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There is a blindingly obvious one that no-one has mentioned, who wins hands down for me.
Mo Farah.
I was reading through this thread and was going to suggest him. Crazily good but for me has to step up to marathon. On that note Paula radcliffe is a world record holder yet we don't mention her? She was miles ahead of her peers.
Hamilton also a good shout but he has had a car far better than the rest. He's not Schumacher who did it without having the best car at times.
Quite a few good shouts on the cycling front isn't there aswell.
Lots of bright young stars to come also. For a small country we're doing well.
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Probably a good reason why Paula Radcliffe isn't mentioned in a discussion of the best British sportsman eh BFYP!
Beryl Burton is the best British sportswoman - and so good in her time she could beat most of the men around too.
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Very true. But why only talk men???
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Very true. But why only talk men???
Now thats a better question!!
I still say Beryl Burton. What I missed out from my earlier post is that for 2 years she not only held the women's world record - but also a men's world record. Who else has ever done that? Her women's record still stands - from 1967. The men of course were professional - she worked on a rhubarb farm.
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There is a blindingly obvious one that no-one has mentioned, who wins hands down for me.
Mo Farah.
I was reading through this thread and was going to suggest him. Crazily good but for me has to step up to marathon. On that note Paula radcliffe is a world record holder yet we don't mention her? She was miles ahead of her peers.
Hamilton also a good shout but he has had a car far better than the rest. He's not Schumacher who did it without having the best car at times.
Quite a few good shouts on the cycling front isn't there aswell.
Lots of bright young stars to come also. For a small country we're doing well.
Hamilton? A bloke who drives a car?
And people have a go at Redgrave who excelled in what is a physically demanding sport.
Daley Thompson probably gets it for me.
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C B Fry look his record up
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Lester Piggott
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Lennox Lewis-Dominated his era, and faced everybody who had a vague chance of taking his titles, and in the top ten of boxings all time great champions, in my opinion.
Bobby Moore, captained england to win the world cup, while also fighting cancer, probably our best ever captain and one of the best defenders we have had.
Bobby Charlton, world cup, european cup winner, former england record goalscorer, rated as one of the best of his era.
Bob Fitzsimmons, our first heavyweight champion of the world, the first three time winning champion boxer.
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Why am I not surprised no one else has mentioned the obvious?
England's greatest ever export...........................David Beckham
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Either CB Fry or Dennis Compton
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Fred Perry won 10 major titles including Wimbledon three times and 4 Grand Slams - and he was also world Table Tennis Champion at the same time.
Andy Murray isn't even the greatest British tennis player of all time - never mind all-round sportsman. Wait till he has his own clothing range, then he might be close.
He's got his own range of Mints
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I'll see your Phil Taylor and raise with Arthur Shufflebottom. 9 times fives and threes champion and crib grand master.
Krowpach and Bowkett - spelling probably crap were from Donny & were Table Footy Champions on t' Indoor League with Freddie Truman
Talking of Cricket has Ian Botham got a mention yet ?
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Ah having checked there is no Botham and not a single Golfer either. There must be a Golfer that can be "compared" along with the rest of these surely ?
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Albert 'halitosis' Clutterbuck. Bentley's very own Blow Football world champion back in the 1950's.
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Ah having checked there is no Botham and not a single Golfer either. There must be a Golfer that can be "compared" along with the rest of these surely ?
harry vardon
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Nick Faldo for golf
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Hedley Verity, Yorkshire and England Cricketer and soldier
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Mo Farah definitely up there but so is Murray. Triple Grand Slam champion, reigning Olympic champion and multiple ATP titles in such a competitive era at the top of the game. There are not enough superlatives for Murray in my view. He squeezes every ounce of ability out of himself through pure graft, hard work and dedication. You never see him making the wrong headlines and he doesn't court fame or distracting cosmetic advertising contracts. If only our footballers could take a leaf out of his book. It's his attitude and endeavour that makes him an all time great for me. It's all about opinions but personally I'd accept no argument that questions his place amongst the greats in this country.
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Dutch, Selby, Billy:
You forget the man who revolutionised the sport of cricket, played first class cricket for 44 seasons, and dominated almost every single one of them. A man whose record even today is still one of the very best. The man whose technical innovations and enormous influence left a lasting legacy. The man who was the first all rounder, and outstanding at it too. The man who excelled at all the essential skills of batting, bowling and fielding - though it's for his batting that he is most renowned. He is held to have invented modern batsmanship. He was particularly admired for his mastery of all strokes, and his level of expertise was said by contemporary reviewers to be unique. He generally captained the teams he played for at all levels because of his skill and tactical acumen.
The man was nominally an amateur cricketer - but he is said to have made more money from his cricketing activities than any professional cricketer. He was an extremely competitive player and, although he was one of the most famous men in England, he was also one of the most controversial on account of his gamesmanship and moneymaking.
William Gilbert Grace. Other than William Webb Ellis no Englishman, in any sport, can claim to have had such a profound and long lasting impact on his chosen sport. I give the crown to W G on the grounds that he played, dominated, the sport as well as revolutionised it. William Webb only did that second bit. He ended up a vicar!
BobG
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Jonathan
I wouldn't argue that Murray is AMONG the greats. No question.
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Roy Race?
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Roy Race?
What about Blackie Gray?, very underrated.
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Bob
I suppose it depends whether you are trying to answer the old fashioned question of who was the greatest sportsman in ability, achievement etc across multiple sports, or who has had the most success or influence on one sport. Grace and many others have been better at cricket than Compton, but none have also played for Arsenal in the old First division. CB Fry is usually touted as the best all rounder in that sense.
A special mention for a friend of mine - Peter (PJ) Wilson. In the early 1970's a broadsheet (Times I think) ran a reader competition for the best current British sportsman (no women) and he won. He was a schoolteacher in Oxford, a GB Hockey star, Welsh squash international, County champion tennis player, and a several other things as well. Off course his name probably helped the readers' choice - remember the comic character 'The Great Wilson'!
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No doubt we need the return of Superstars where I seem to remember Downhill Skiers were the "fittest" of all the Sportsmen
Reckon Lewis Hamilton cant be far off the fittest even though he sits down in his Sport !
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Ahh, Superstars. How I loved Superstars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8vwE3_MKDY
Actually, the World Superstars finals were dominated by a Canadian footballer and a couple or three pole vaulters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstars#World_Superstars
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Ahh, Superstars. How I loved Superstars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8vwE3_MKDY
Actually, the World Superstars finals were dominated by a Canadian footballer and a couple or three pole vaulters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstars#World_Superstars
Superstars, used to love it.
Can remember one year in the world one though where Jody Schekter greased his legs with cooking oil so he could get more traction in the squat thrusts!
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Reckon Lewis Hamilton cant be far off the fittest even though he sits down in his Sport !
In F1 I believe its now Button a very active tri athlete. Before 100% it was Webber all round fitness junkie.
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Dave Cusack? :)
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David Icke, wasn't he the son of God or something? Should be s#*t hot then!! number 2 in the world ever.
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How about Ricky Hatton.
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Ahh, Superstars. How I loved Superstars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8vwE3_MKDY
Actually, the World Superstars finals were dominated by a Canadian footballer and a couple or three pole vaulters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstars#World_Superstars
Superstars, used to love it.
Can remember one year in the world one though where Jody Schekter greased his legs with cooking oil so he could get more traction in the squat thrusts!
My favourite bit EVER was Stan Bowles shooting the Table and shitting himself. Sure I found it on Youtube once
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There is a blindingly obvious one that no-one has mentioned, who wins hands down for me.
Mo Farah.
Well, as I was saying...
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Phil Taylor.
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Ahh, Superstars. How I loved Superstars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8vwE3_MKDY
Actually, the World Superstars finals were dominated by a Canadian footballer and a couple or three pole vaulters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstars#World_Superstars
Superstars, used to love it.
Can remember one year in the world one though where Jody Schekter greased his legs with cooking oil so he could get more traction in the squat thrusts!
My favourite bit EVER was Stan Bowles shooting the Table and shitting himself. Sure I found it on Youtube once
Kevin Keegan falling off his bike?
Brian Jacks was pretty good..
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Farah's a phenomenon. In the last seven seasons, he's been in 20 European, World or Olympic finals. He's won 17 golds, 1 silver, 1 bronze and has one 4th place finish.
The bronze and 4th place were in events outside his core speciality (half marathon and 3000m). The silver was 5 years ago.
In the hierarchy of track athletes who have dominated their event(s) globally for long periods, he's probably fourth, behind Usain Bolt, Carl Lewis and Ed Moses. Maybe he shares fourth with Paavo Nurmi and Emil Zatopek, but they didn't compete anywhere near as many times at the highest level because the World Championships didn't exist then.
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In the world of cycling i'd put Wiggins ahead of Hoy simply because Hoy's success has come exclusively in the Velodrome. Wiggins has done it on the road too
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But to counter that Mark most of Wiggins success has been as part of a team where most of Hoy's were individual. However if you put the hour record & TT World Campion in there too it has to go to Wiggins for that versatility and all round ability - even Hoy admits that.
However if Froome wins the Vuelta, which he is more than capable of doing, and becomes the first British rider to win two Grand Tours in the same year...
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.... AND if they had let CF off the leash that time when he was "second fiddle" to Wiggins and demonstrated he could blow Wiggo into the weeds he would perhaps have one MORE TDF whereas BW would have had one LESS
Sir DB called him off of course
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Ahh, Superstars. How I loved Superstars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8vwE3_MKDY
Actually, the World Superstars finals were dominated by a Canadian footballer and a couple or three pole vaulters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstars#World_Superstars
But how would athletes of today compare against ones from 25 years ago.....
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Well, it's like this...
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.... AND if they had let CF off the leash that time when he was "second fiddle" to Wiggins and demonstrated he could blow Wiggo into the weeds he would perhaps have one MORE TDF whereas BW would have had one LESS
Sir DB called him off of course
Froome would have nailed that stage if he hadn't been called back, but Wiggins would've still done enough in the time trials that year in my opinion. That tour was made for him.
Absolutely no doubting Froome is the better road rider, though, and will end up with an amazingly decorated record. But Wiggins' crossover achievements from track to road are astonishing and I'm not sure will be matched, and certainly shouldn't be devalued.
And this is before we get to Mark Cavendish - another all time great with an incredible record.
And Jason Kenny alongside Chris Hoy (and fast approaching Laura Trott).
Just to pick up the earlier comparison of the 'team based tour' vs the achievements of the likes of Chris Hoy alone. We mustn't forget the Team Sprint golds on the track.
In any case, the money poured into British Cycling has certainly not been wasted.
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For me you can't really have a definitive pick to rule over all sports, that one sportsman or woman is greatest. In my opinion it's easier to pick the greatest in each sport. Just thinking back did anybody else watch the saint and greavsie programme way back called 'Who was the greatest'?. It was on around the late eighties i think. Anyway these would be my picks for each sport.
FOOTBALL-George Best
BOXING-Lennox Lewis
GOLF-Nick Faldo
SNOOKER-Ronnie o'sullivan
DARTS-Phil Taylor
CRICKET-Joe Root
RUGBY LEAGUE-Martin Offiah
RUGBY UNION-Johnny Wilkinson
FORMULA 1-Nigel Mansell
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Joe Root? Very good player but better than Botham?
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Haha Joe Root! I actually think that by the time he's retired he will be England's top run scorer across all 3 formats and probably up there with the greatest batsmen of all time, but to put his achievements right now as the greatest ahead of Botham, Cook, Boycott, Gower, Stewart, Anderson, Trueman etc is utterly ridiculous.
EDIT: I've just had a quick look now and Root's current total of 4005 test runs is less than Robin Smith, Matt Prior and Mark Butcher. As I said, top player but you can't equate his achievements to those mentioned above (Botham et al, not Butcher!)
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Joe Root? Very good player but better than Botham?
Haha Joe Root! I actually think that by the time he's retired he will be England's top run scorer across all 3 formats and probably up there with the greatest batsmen of all time, but to put his achievements right now as the greatest ahead of Botham, Cook, Boycott, Gower, Stewart, Anderson, Trueman etc is utterly ridiculous.
EDIT: I've just had a quick look now and Root's current total of 4005 test runs is less than Robin Smith, Matt Prior and Mark Butcher. As I said, top player but you can't equate his achievements to those mentioned above (Botham et al, not Butcher!)
You are right in stat terms. I just think he is the best i have seen. I saw botham at the back end of his career, same gower, stewart, smith. Boycott before my time same for trueman. Butcher and prior good players but not greats. Anderson a fantastic bowler but i tend to go for batsman