Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: BobG on November 27, 2016, 03:15:58 pm
-
hits the Rovers? There's a guy who must be bricking himself these days. Youth team coach who left rather suddenly a while ago now amidst all sorts of unpleasant stories.....
I hope we steer clear, but I don't reckon the odds are very high.
BobG
-
I think it's dangerous to begin pointing the finger, even if veiled. This is serious stuff. Especially so as Jim White on Talksport said tonight that at least 1 player believed to have been a victim has committed suicide. My first thought was probably the same as most of you are thinking.
-
Innocent until proven guilty. If there is anything to come out I'm sure that it will eventually.
-
I can't see anything dangerous in this thread Rob. I agree it's a very, very serious subject. As such it's open to comment - always provided unfounded and/or malicious allegations against identifiable individuals are not made. Which no one has.
Bob
-
Bob, reading your first couple of sentences then I would say you are singling someone out therefore accusing them of something without any facts.
I'd say that's a little dangerous!
-
Exactly my thought, Knockers, and unless there is clear evidence against anyone I hope that this atrocity doesn't taint our club.
-
When you think about it,it should have occurred to us all that there was a big atrocity waiting to come out..Lets face it for a sexual predator a football club is a very attractive target sadly...This could be bigger than operation yewtree when it all comes out...
There are always things that happen in a football club that we are never revealed publically..You hear the odd snippet,i've been told of one or two players who were released from contracts for lets just say "non footballing reasons" not involving kids though...
You can only keep your fingers crossed that historically we are not involved in any allegations but I think every club up and down the country has the potential to be involved unknowingly...However if any club did know what was happening and just made the problem go away without notifying the relevant authorities then that's a different matter...
-
My first thought was to wonder whether the sizable homophobic minority that football attracts has helped the perpetrators. It's notable that all those who have come forward so far are no longer in the game - can you imagine the chants a current player would get from some of the opposition crowd every time he played afterwards? Not to mention that we'd then get those who would then claim it was just 'banter'....
-
As much as I agree that homophobia still sadly exists in football,i would hope that even the morons who take part in that would draw the line at mocking child sexual abuse victims...
-
As much as I agree that homophobia still sadly exists in football,i would hope that even the morons who take part in that would draw the line at mocking child sexual abuse victims...
There's plenty of football fans who think any chant against an opposition player is a legitimate part if the game; regardless of subject, taste or general decency. We've had some on this forum defending potentially offensive chants as 'banter' and therefore actually a legitimate part of the game..!
-
I think it's something that is definetly on the decrease and in a few years wont exist at all..People have to remember that it's only recently in the last twenty years or so that its become unacceptable,before that everybody was homophobic,television programmes always poked fun and stereotyped homosexuality as did comedians,it was the norm....Now it's just part of life...One of my best friends is gay he didn't feel comfortable telling anyone until he was 30..He doesn't come across homophobia very much at all now in his everyday life and it genuinely has surprised him and thinks massive strides have been made in attitude's..Yes there will always be idiots but anybody who feels the need to abuse child abuse victims from the terraces is beyond educating....
-
That's all very well, but the fact that no professional player currently playing in this country has come out even in these enlightened days tells its own story.
And that story is the same one that I suspect is the reason any victims of homosexual abuse within the game have been reluctant to go public before now. In effect, the homophobic element are (or hopefully have been, in the past tense) protecting homosexual abusers, which is one hell of an irony.
-
As much as I agree that homophobia still sadly exists in football,i would hope that even the morons who take part in that would draw the line at mocking child sexual abuse victims...
Really, that does suprise me...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwk_hSVnlIc
-
I think it's something that is definetly on the decrease and in a few years wont exist at all..People have to remember that it's only recently in the last twenty years or so that its become unacceptable,before that everybody was homophobic,television programmes always poked fun and stereotyped homosexuality as did comedians,it was the norm....Now it's just part of life...One of my best friends is gay he didn't feel comfortable telling anyone until he was 30..He doesn't come across homophobia very much at all now in his everyday life and it genuinely has surprised him and thinks massive strides have been made in attitude's..Yes there will always be idiots but anybody who feels the need to abuse child abuse victims from the terraces is beyond educating....
On the evidence of the Millwall family discussed in another thread my bet is it will still be happening in 20 years time.
-
And who, precisely, have I accused?
I'm afraid I dsiagree. Profoundly, Rob, Knockers. Nobody is publicly identifiable from what I wrote. A few people will know the subject of my thought, but no one will have learned that from either me or what I wrote. Therefore my post contains no danger whatsoever to anybody. And, please remind yourselves, danger can only exist if something is said which is found to be libellous. To be libelled, somebody has to be identified (which hasn't happened), and, their reputation damaged (which also has not happened). So, my post is perfectly legitimate, proper and without risk to man and beast.
Bob
-
Bit aggressive there Bob.
Plus I think you underestimate how many people can quite easily suss out who you mean.
-
http://tinyurl.com/je2hnk8
-
Bit aggressive there Bob.
Plus I think you underestimate how many people can quite easily suss out who you mean.
There could also be people getting the wrong end of the stick snd thinking it be someone else
-
And it just generally paints our club in a bad light for the sake of what exactly? A suspicion? I'd rather we didnt go near that without anything resembling proof, thanks.
-
This man is a massive Kitson. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/darts/38139647 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/darts/38139647)
-
This man is a massive Kitson. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/darts/38139647 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/darts/38139647)
Presumably it's a 'real man' who's put Bennell where he is at the moment...
-
Best get collecting some more money for a solicitor
-
Knockers: 'sussing out' is NOT identifying someone. You might know the person, so might I. But only beacuse we knew information that was floating about at the time. I have not named anyone. Therefore no one has been impugned by my post. Simple. If you decide to publish that name, then you will have released it into the public comain. Not me. Your choice.
BobG
PS. Aggressive? Maybe. I'm sick of pillocks with half baked theories and very little knowledge claiming to be the arbiters of what I can and cannot say.
-
Bob, I don't know of any information that was floating about at the time the bloke you're referring to suddenly left the club. Now though, because of this thread you started, I am suspicious that he might be guilty of sexually abusing young footballers.
With this in mind, I could easily discover the name of the person you're putting under suspicion.
-
Good for you BB :) And it still would not have been me who released the information into the public domain.
Cheers
BobG
-
Good for you BB :) And it still would not have been me who released the information into the public domain.
Cheers
BobG
As self righteous as ever.
-
Good for you BB :) And it still would not have been me who released the information into the public domain.
Cheers
BobG
Ha ha, nice one Bob! I hope your victim and his brief takes your view on it!
By the way, did you read my previous link?
http://tinyurl.com/je2hnk8
-
I don't know the ins and outs of the law but I wouldn't have thought that you expose yourself to any lawsuit by starting this thread.
My question is why bother starting this thread at all? It's as if it's been written by some lonely old gossiping fishwife!
-
The initial post in this thread is pathetic, unnecessary and almost just leads to pointless rumour-mongering about any former youth team manager at any point in the last few decades.
It's a deplorable insult to those who have been previously involved in youth set-ups at any club, who are just decent human beings.
In any case, if there are any perverts out there who have committed crimes in a football environment, they deserve to be hung, drawn and quartered, but a lynch mob mentality achieves nothing - this has to be done through the proper legal channels and, those clubs who have covered things up (such as Crewe Alexandra) should be shut down.
In terms of homophobia in football, it's still very much prevalent from my experience. Could a player come out as openly gay? Possibly, but it would depend very much on the individual's personality and their popularity in the dressing room. That said, I personally think it'd be more damaging to a player's career as opposed to anything else.
Why? Did the BBC close down after Saville? Or the Catholic Church after their revaltions? Or the Scout Movement? Or Clifton College? Or British Olympic Swimming? Why should football clubs be treated differently to other organisations?
And why pick on Crewe and not Manchester City, Stoke, Newcastle, Chelsea?
You have done exactly what you said shouldn't be done with your lynch mob mentality - lets hang Crewe and it will be alright.
-
I'll just give you a quote that was in one of the papers this morning...
“If kids’ teams in Manchester knew about him, and [Barry] Bennell’s reputation had stretched all the way to grassroots junior football 40 miles away from Crewe, it's strange, to say the least, that Crewe are saying they had heard absolutely nothing to trouble them about their own employee.”
How that football club acted, regardless of how many years ago this was, is absolutely deplorable. For all the kids that have come through their system, and were abused, how do you think they feel about Crewe Alexandra F.C. - and not just their tormentor, but the other people at that club who claim to have never heard a thing?
And, yes, if other clubs become more central to this disgraceful scandal, they should be shut down too.
Absolutely hilarious given that on every other contentious subject raised on this forum you invariably say that whatever it is just part of life, nothing can be done and that people should just shrug their shoulders, get on with their lives and ignore it. Presumably Crewe followed your advice!
-
The initial post in this thread is pathetic, unnecessary and almost just leads to pointless rumour-mongering about any former youth team manager at any point in the last few decades.
It's a deplorable insult to those who have been previously involved in youth set-ups at any club, who are just decent human beings.
In any case, if there are any perverts out there who have committed crimes in a football environment, they deserve to be hung, drawn and quartered, but a lynch mob mentality achieves nothing - this has to be done through the proper legal channels and, those clubs who have covered things up (such as Crewe Alexandra) should be shut down.
In terms of homophobia in football, it's still very much prevalent from my experience. Could a player come out as openly gay? Possibly, but it would depend very much on the individual's personality and their popularity in the dressing room. That said, I personally think it'd be more damaging to a player's career as opposed to anything else.
Why? Did the BBC close down after Saville? Or the Catholic Church after their revaltions? Or the Scout Movement? Or Clifton College? Or British Olympic Swimming? Why should football clubs be treated differently to other organisations?
And why pick on Crewe and not Manchester City, Stoke, Newcastle, Chelsea?
You have done exactly what you said shouldn't be done with your lynch mob mentality - lets hang Crewe and it will be alright.
Story on BBC news website: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-38164314 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-38164314)
I note the following:
"He said he did not tell the club about the abuse at the time because "it's not the sort of thing you talk about is it? Especially in football".
The implication then is, how much has gone unreported to the clubs themselves, therefore how could they have reacted?
Also, if the allegations are historical, they may pre-date a time when DBS vetting was mandatory or before "safeguarding" was a buzz word.
The abuse is wrong, on any level, and at any time. However it is only in recent years that victims have been heard.
Have there been any "cover ups" or just a case of ignorance in the sense of being unaware of what was going on?
-
I'll just give you a quote that was in one of the papers this morning...
“If kids’ teams in Manchester knew about him, and [Barry] Bennell’s reputation had stretched all the way to grassroots junior football 40 miles away from Crewe, it's strange, to say the least, that Crewe are saying they had heard absolutely nothing to trouble them about their own employee.”
How that football club acted, regardless of how many years ago this was, is absolutely deplorable. For all the kids that have come through their system, and were abused, how do you think they feel about Crewe Alexandra F.C. - and not just their tormentor, but the other people at that club who claim to have never heard a thing?
And, yes, if other clubs become more central to this disgraceful scandal, they should be shut down too.
Absolutely hilarious given that on every other contentious subject raised on this forum you invariably say that whatever it is just part of life, nothing can be done and that people should just shrug their shoulders, get on with their lives and ignore it. Presumably Crewe followed your advice!
So I take it that you'd be quite happy to protect a paedophile in order to protect the image of your football club, which is basically what has happened?
That, for me, is as bad, if not worse, than the perverted individual. He's only accountable for his own actions - the individuals at the club, who collectively were aware of rumours/allegations, should have come together, withdrew his employment, and reported their concerns to the relevant authorities - it doesn't matter if it was 1980, 1990, 2000 or right now. There's a moral obligation and they failed in their duty, so they could prevent their football club from going through a scandal, two or three decades ago.
If other clubs are found to have done the same thing, they should be closed down too.
Firstly, of course I don't want paedophiles proteted, that wasn't what I was commenting about. I was pointing out your inconsistent approach to things. It seems you either want to do nothing because nothing can be done or you want to be leading the torch and pitchfork mob.
Secondly, far from being closed down, if a club dismissed anybody based on rumours and allegations, they'd be sued for wrongful dismissal faster than you could string them up. And further to that, they cannot report any concerns based purely on the victim's evidence to the relevant authorities - it's the victims decision to do so, not theirs.
-
Yet on previous occassions you have defended the right of a (at that time) convicted sex attacker to play professional football and not condemned the employment of a convicted peadophile by a football club?
Then you go picking out Crewe for their lack of action yet ignore that Chelsea paid someone to keep quite - good luck in closing them down.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/man-city-facing-multi-million-compensation-claim-over-abuse-allegations-youth-player-1594340
And of course times are different now. Graham Riz served 6 months out of a 12 month sentance for under-age sex in 1999. And when he came out he went back to being youth team coach at Chelsea - you reckon that would happen now!
(Apologies to all for spelling and gramma - I have left my glasses at work)
-
You don't even want to be associated with Rovers. Hardly a strong point for you to make.
-
I'll accept and get on with most things in life, but I'll draw a line long before the protection of paedophiles as it's absolutely disgraceful.
Ultimately, that's what Crewe Alexandra did - purely for their own benefit (as Barry Bennell, football-wise, was possibly a good scout), but they also kept quiet about their allegations to protect their own reputation.
Nevertheless, would you want to pump any money into an organisation where young kids have been sexually exploited by a pervert? Would you feel comfortable if you were a parent of any kid who has represented the youth set-up at that club over the past 30/40 years?
And finally, do you feel at ease with the fact that three conflicting accounts from off-field individuals at Crewe Alexandra in the 1980s have come to light over the past 10 days - yet the two individuals who are still involved in that organisation to this day claim to have 'heard nothing, seen nothing', etc.
So you want a club to whom a victim has made an allegation - in confidence - to then, without any other evidence or agreement from the victim - break that confidence and go blabbing to someone else? Well done Rigo, you've just created another reason for victims not to come forward; which, by the way, would protect the paedophiles you profess to want rooting out.
-
Are you making the same points on a Crewe forum?
-
Newcastle United accused of cover-up by victim
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/dec/01/newcastle-accused-cover-up-1990s-abuse
Chelsea appointed a convicted paedophile as a coach and paid off a victim of another abuser
Hearts re-employed a convicted paedophile and a convicted (at that time) rapist should be allowed to play football.
Yet only Crewe have done anything wrong. Your a funny bloke Rigo.
-
Not quite. Being found not guilty isn't the same as being proven innocent, by a long way. It just means there isn't enough evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the person is guilty.
-
Hearts re-employed a convicted paedophile and a convicted (at that time) rapist should be allowed to play football.
You're on about Ched Evans...
At no point during his career has he played for a professional football club whilst being a convicted rapist.
His conviction for rape was quashed before he signed for Chesterfield, but with the second trial to follow, he reverted back to being 'a footballer accused of rape' - just as he was during the 2011/12 season at Sheffield United.
I know you might have missed it, because you're a little bit selective with things you see, but he was proven innocent at the second trial.
Innocent or insufficient evidence/unproven.
Unsavoury whether innocent or guilty.
-
Not disputing that, just being a pedantic bas**rd really.
-
I can't stop thinking that the change of direction of this thread has been done deliberately to divert the attention of the OP subject.
I'd like to know the views of contributors who haven't commented on the OP.
I won't hold my breath!
-
I wrote about three posts and then deleted them BB because some fans know exactly who Bob is referring to.
If there is anything to come out then I'm sure it will.
When I went to Oswin Ave school in Balby in the early 60s the music teacher in his 60s would call you to his desk if you were misbehaving and rub your backside while telling you to behave. Annoying and not very nice but the lads in the class made a joke of it. Now everybody would be wanting compo. It didn't ruin any of our lives.
-
Hearts re-employed a convicted paedophile and a convicted (at that time) rapist should be allowed to play football.
You're on about Ched Evans...
At no point during his career has he played for a professional football club whilst being a convicted rapist.
His conviction for rape was quashed before he signed for Chesterfield, but with the second trial to follow, he reverted back to being 'a footballer accused of rape' - just as he was during the 2011/12 season at Sheffield United.
I know you might have missed it, because you're a little bit selective with things you see, but he was proven innocent at the second trial.
No I'm not. I'm on about this thread from April - when Evans was still a convicted rapist and you argued he should be allowed to return - and your double standards. You say people employed by Crewe today should be punished for what a bloke they sacked in 1992 did. Yet you argue that a (at that time) convicted rapist should be allowed to play.
http://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=257198.msg627908#msg627908
-
I can't stop thinking that the change of direction of this thread has been done deliberately to divert the attention of the OP subject.
I'd like to know the views of contributors who haven't commented on the OP.
I won't hold my breath!
You will need to ask the person who changed the direction of the thread why he did it BB. I can only guess.
Like Idler I too began an earlier response but didn't see fit to post it. So I shall now.
In my view if anyone has any suspicions that anyone employed at any time by Doncaster Rovers was involved in abuse of young footballers (as you say you do in post #23) they should report this to the police immediately. The stories that have come out in past few days of the lives ruined have been heartbreaking and difficult to watch, but the most telling aspect has been that this is the first time they have told their stories, they kept them secret because they didn't think anyone whould believe them or listen. Well now is the time to break the silence - but in the correct manner.
I have no idea who Bob is talking about - and frankly dont want to know. I hope his fears are groundless. But if they aren't then I hope that jutice takes it course. The subject is far to serious for points scoring on fans forum.
-
It does make me wonder after all this time, if all the claims coming forward are in fact genuine or simply jumping on the bandwagon in the hope of a nice payoff. I felt the same during the Jimmy Saville case, perhaps it's just me being a little cynical
-
Hearts re-employed a convicted paedophile and a convicted (at that time) rapist should be allowed to play football.
You're on about Ched Evans...
At no point during his career has he played for a professional football club whilst being a convicted rapist.
His conviction for rape was quashed before he signed for Chesterfield, but with the second trial to follow, he reverted back to being 'a footballer accused of rape' - just as he was during the 2011/12 season at Sheffield United.
I know you might have missed it, because you're a little bit selective with things you see, but he was proven innocent at the second trial.
He wasn't proved innocent. he was found not guilty. There's a big difference! Innocent means he didn't do it. Not guilty means it cannot be proved he did it.
Either way he's guilty of being an arsehole.
-
Again, would you feel comfortable right now, as a fan, wearing your replica shirt/scarf in the knowledge that the organisation whose colours you are displaying is one where paedophile activities have taken place, and the organisation basically did nothing about it.
Thats a non-argument Rigo. Fans support their clubs for the football, and what may or may not happen behind the scenes is rarely any reason to change that, as utterly abhorrent as this episode is Its like saying to Catholics they shouldn't go to communion because some of the church's priests are paedophiles.
I think the responsible thing to do is support the clubs to get their houses in order so this cant happen again, and deal with those who covered it up - remember, a lot of these cases are from the 70s and 80s when there were far less stringent checks on who has access to children in all walks of life. That isnt the case now. there are all sorts of guidelines now for coaches and young player's parents about acceptable contact, avoiding lone contact, etc.
-
Again, would you feel comfortable right now, as a fan, wearing your replica shirt/scarf in the knowledge that the organisation whose colours you are displaying is one where paedophile activities have taken place, and the organisation basically did nothing about it.
Thats a non-argument Rigo. Fans support their clubs for the football, and what may or may not happen behind the scenes is rarely any reason to change that, as utterly abhorrent as this episode is Its like saying to Catholics they shouldn't go to communion because some of the church's priests are paedophiles.
I think the responsible thing to do is support the clubs to get their houses in order so this cant happen again, and deal with those who covered it up - remember, a lot of these cases are from the 70s and 80s when there were far less stringent checks on who has access to children in all walks of life. That isnt the case now. there are all sorts of guidelines now for coaches and young player's parents about acceptable contact, avoiding lone contact, etc.
Presumably Rigo feels that Stoke Mandeville, the BBC and the Boy Scouts should all be closed down because paedophile activities have occured there..
-
I have asked him that already Glyn (and the Catholic Church) and he ignored it. Just as he is ignoring Bannell's involvement with Manchester City, Chelsea paying a victim to keep quiet and what happened at Newcastle and Southampton. All he is interested in is his own personal witch-hunt against Crewe.
-
Perhaps he'd also like to have the internet shut down given that paedophiles use it to spread their disgusting material too!
-
So you know everything that went on at Crewe, and who knew what, and who did what, and when etc??
Do you??
Justice should rightly be served on those who deserve it for these abhorrent crimes, and if that involves senior folks at Crewe from those days, then so be it.
But who made you, Rigo, judge jury and executioner??
-
As I said, he continues to ignore Bannell's involvement with Manchester City & Stoke, Chelsea paying a victim to keep quiet and what happened at Newcastle and Southampton. All he is interested in is his own personal witch hunt against Crewe - apparently because they are a 'boring, lower league club'!!!
-
Still not commenting on those other clubs then?
-
Course he isn't, he's too busy jerking himself off at everyone's reactions.
-
I doubt very much that Abromovich would have been in the dark about the Chelsea payment so he too should be banned from involvement in football?
I wonder where CFC would be without his millions.
-
Well how does everyone feel about this now?
I'm still very uncomfortable about the fact that Crewe have buried their heads in the sand and reneged on their promise to have an independent inquiry, which would have offered more findings/resolutions to ensure this thing never happens again.
It's very worrying the same regime is still incharge at that place.
The way they've shunned the victims in this appalling matter is outrageous. The fact they had an advert in the programme the day after Barry Bennell was sentenced advertising for a scout in the Manchester area is incompetent. The fact they had photos of Bennell on the walls, three months after this scandal broke, is disgusting.
I feel for the Crewe fans with a conscience, who've watched their beloved club bury their heads in the sand and do nothing. They have had their memories of many years tainted and have been let down. Those who still support the regime which protected a paedophile (knowingly or not) and talk of Gradi and Bowler as legends, I pity.
Nobody will ever think of Crewe in a positive way for a long time and their reaction to this scandal over the months has been disgusting. Gradi and Bowler, and their placepeople at the club should resign in principle that this happened on their watch.
I did hope Crewe would go bust. Now I just hope the survivors can bring about the change that disgusting little football club desperately needs.
Crewe have absolutely shamed football with their attitude!
Isn't there a Man City forum you can bother?
-
Funny you should mention Man City Wes - as Rigo still appears to have his head in the sand about them - and what came out in the trial that it was known not just Bennell but another member of staff was abusing boys there.
Manchester City, one of the clubs most seriously implicated in the Barry Bennell sexual abuse scandal, have been accused of putting hundreds of boys in danger after it emerged they were warned by one of their own coaches in the late-1970s it was “general knowledge” he was a risk to children.
Bennell, who is facing complaints from another 86 former footballers, continued scouting and coaching for City’s junior teams, raping and molesting countless boys in seven years connected to the club, even though high-ranking officials had been warned to keep away from a man who now faces the rest of his life in prison and has been described as having “almost an insatiable appetite” for young boys.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/feb/15/manchester-city-barry-bennell-warning
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/three-manchester-city-players-taking-14260452
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/barry-bennell-guilty-manchester-city-14294279
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42723116
-
The focus will shift from Crewe once the solicitors start putting in for compensation for victims
Please note this is aimed at solicitors and not the victims who had courage to stand up and be counted
-
Oh ffs BobG You think you know something - big deal = I for one don't give a shit, But if it's a big part of your life spit it out otherwise shut the f up,
-
This could end up being the slowest row in forum history.
-
Oh ffs BobG You think you know something - big deal = I for one don't give a shit, But if it's a big part of your life spit it out otherwise shut the f up,
I think you’ll find it’s 16 months since he said anything on this thread, so maybe he already shut the f up...?
-
Oh ffs BobG You think you know something - big deal = I for one don't give a shit, But if it's a big part of your life spit it out otherwise shut the f up,
I think you’ll find it’s 16 months since he said anything on this thread, so maybe he already shut the f up...?
He shut the f up a long time ago, anyone know where Bob G has got to?