Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: PopStander on April 03, 2017, 09:54:57 am
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What can the club do to get people in?
We're winning games, top of the league, could be promoted Saturday. It's happening on the pitch.
Would cheap tickets bring people back?
Free tickets?
Better advertising?
Free drink?
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The club for whatever reason have never got a grip of this.
Its straightforward.
Get strategic marketing consultants to pitch for the job of increasing the attendances at Doncaster Rovers home matches. Its a marketing challenge. The brief would be to deliver consistent gates of 10, 12, 14,000 (whatever the target is set at) through increased season ticket sales or whatever the consultants would present as their solutions.
I've got no idea how DRFC manage their strategic marketing but I doubt from our low attendances, bearing in mind we have been a relatively successful club over the last 10-15 years, its been dealt with in a grown up way.
Of course it would cost money but the long term benefits would offset any initial sizeable outlay.
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Keep winning the more successful the more will come
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The club for whatever reason have never got a grip of this.
Its straightforward.
Get strategic marketing consultants to pitch for the job of increasing the attendances at Doncaster Rovers home matches. Its a marketing challenge. The brief would be to deliver consistent gates of 10, 12, 14,000 (whatever the target is set at) through increased season ticket sales or whatever the consultants would present as their solutions.
I've got no idea how DRFC manage their strategic marketing but I doubt from our low attendances, bearing in mind we have been a relatively successful club over the last 10-15 years, its been dealt with in a grown up way.
Of course it would cost money but the long term benefits would offset any initial sizeable outlay.
This.
The club needs a proper social media professional as well. The content and engagement through its current channels is laughable.
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Was this one of your ideas you sent them? 'Employ an expert'?
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Saturday should be advertised as promotion party, get people in to see us be promoted, but I've heard nothing about it.
The Black Bank which is run by fans are doing something for the Exeter game.
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Not everyone can attend weekly, an expat membership where you get a certain amount of admissions per season rather than just pay on the day. Would be happy to pay a smaller fee to be part of the club for a membership as a distant member
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I'm not sure an ex-pat membership makes much financial sense for the Club. The numbers involved would be very low and I would see it as, if you are already prepared to pay the expense of travelling from overseas then you're not likely to be put off having to pay an extra few quid per game.
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And the club receive nothing. Charging for an overseas membership creates another revenue stream for the club. Look at all the larger teams. Most of their revenue comes from fans that are not season ticket holders
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The club for whatever reason have never got a grip of this.
Its straightforward.
Get strategic marketing consultants to pitch for the job of increasing the attendances at Doncaster Rovers home matches. Its a marketing challenge. The brief would be to deliver consistent gates of 10, 12, 14,000 (whatever the target is set at) through increased season ticket sales or whatever the consultants would present as their solutions.
I've got no idea how DRFC manage their strategic marketing but I doubt from our low attendances, bearing in mind we have been a relatively successful club over the last 10-15 years, its been dealt with in a grown up way.
Of course it would cost money but the long term benefits would offset any initial sizeable outlay.
This.
The club needs a proper social media professional as well. The content and engagement through its current channels is laughable.
We had one of those and people didn't seem to care for him.
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And the club receive nothing. Charging for an overseas membership creates another revenue stream for the club. Look at all the larger teams. Most of their revenue comes from fans that are not season ticket holders
I doubt it would be much of a revenue stream. What would this membership get an ex-pat? Cheaper tickets? If so, why would the club want to promote that, unless the ex-pat would never turn up. In which case why would the ex-pat want to buy it.
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The club for whatever reason have never got a grip of this.
Its straightforward.
Get strategic marketing consultants to pitch for the job of increasing the attendances at Doncaster Rovers home matches. Its a marketing challenge. The brief would be to deliver consistent gates of 10, 12, 14,000 (whatever the target is set at) through increased season ticket sales or whatever the consultants would present as their solutions.
I've got no idea how DRFC manage their strategic marketing but I doubt from our low attendances, bearing in mind we have been a relatively successful club over the last 10-15 years, its been dealt with in a grown up way.
Of course it would cost money but the long term benefits would offset any initial sizeable outlay.
This.
The club needs a proper social media professional as well. The content and engagement through its current channels is laughable.
We had one of those and people didn't seem to care for him.
He loved himself before the job
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He was a professional in the sense that he got paid to work.
I wouldn't have called him proper though.
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In general, bpoolrover has got it spot on. Marketing for a one-off, like this Saturday, should be ramped up but as yet we have seen nothing.
As a Club, you sometimes have to wonder whether we are switched on. For atmosphere the Moat suffers badly when only half full. The team are doing their bit, but the Club seem to be lagging behind but at least, like the team, they're pretty consistent.
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from an outsider's perspective, the oft-mentioned idea of making a real effort to engage with the local Polish community seems like a fairly simple step that could reap decent rewards...seems to be suggested on here on a regular basis, generally agreed to be a good idea, then not acted upon in any meaningful way at all; more Pole's that come along the better IMHO - they seem to love their football and are fond of generating a mental atmosphere when sufficiently interested...
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He was a professional in the sense that he got paid to work.
I wouldn't have called him proper though.
Dunno, he got us in the spotlight a few times. Even if some of his initiatives were a bit embarrassing.
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He did raise the profile occasionally, but to what end?
The Fleetwood highlights video - where nothing at all happened about from the kick off - was in most national papers, trending on social media etc. - but if you saw that and you were from Donny would it make you want to go and watch a game?
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Why not have a public Consultation with a drop in or a series of desks in town centre PLUS an online forum at the same time and ask the simple question with no suggested answers. "Why do you not attend DRFC home games? Not too hard isnt that. then the professionals will know what they have to do.
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Ticketless tickets .... a few of my mates moan that they have to go and buy a ticket or if done on net go and pick it up
Barcode scanner could solve this ala theme parks zoos etc
In fact thinking about it why bother printing season tickets just have a card that could be scanned
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All these suggestions are undoubtedly valid but they're tactical activity.
Whats required is strategic campaign being delivered by proper marketeers who are tasked with measurable strategic goals – such as increased gates of +2K, +4K – whatever is decided by the club as targets – within say a 12-18 month period and beyond.
How they do that is then a series of tactical activities that will deliver the agreed goals. The club / directors / whoever makes these decisions arent doing the big bit of work upfront which then defines, guides and connects the various work streams.
This is all very standard marketing stuff. I can only think Terry and Dick aren't overly concerned about attendances and don't want to spend the money on attempting to improve our gates. They're both proper business heavyweights so there'll be a reason for it somewhere in the recesses of the KM.
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In my opinion the best way to understand why people aren't attending games is to ask them. The club could use a variety of methods to question a cross section of the population of the town to understand what's stopping them going. For example I'm sure that the club will still have the contact details of former season ticket holders. A survey of them will give us one insight. Additionally, online and face to face surveys could be carried out with people/supporters across the town, for example those who've never had a season ticket but go to most games, those who only attend occasionally, those who used to attend but have stopped and those who've never gone to a match for x amount of years.
Many people have shared their own feedback of why people have stopped going on this forum in the past, but I feel that a more organised and structured approach would give the club a key insight. Once they have this knowledge they can begin to create a marketing plan that answers the 'concerns' of those who have either stopped going or never started going in the first place. Indeed, you could have a 2 pronged marketing campaign aimed at those 2 groups of people.
Just my thoughts...
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Ticketless tickets .... a few of my mates moan that they have to go and buy a ticket or if done on net go and pick it up
Barcode scanner could solve this ala theme parks zoos etc
In fact thinking about it why bother printing season tickets just have a card that could be scanned
I must admit, i'm surprised we haven't introduced etickets. Would make everyone's life a whole lot easier.
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Etickets are a good idea, the only drawback i could see is that eticketing doesn't discriminate between a home supporter and an away supporter
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Surely it will only allow access to predetermined area
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Interesting to suggest expats as a potential income stream. I am an expat and buy a season ticket because I wish to support the club. I offer my ticket to the club when I cannot get to matches so that they may offer it to a worthy cause of which they have identified many in the community.
I don't share the view we are weak on marketing . I think the Club Doncaster strategy is very good strategic thinking which both strengthens our identity in the community and generates extra income from the multitude of activities that go on at Keepmoat.
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We have to sell the dream back to those who became despondent because of past failures. Not everyone is as faithful as those of us who never stopped attending regularly despite our more recent failings. I must admit a lot of my enthusiasm went when the dream of reaching the Championship proved to be unsustainable (twice), and although I never stopped going, I can empathise with those who did.
The majority of those who no longer attend who I've spoken to told me they no longer go because actually reaching the promised land of Championship football wasn't anywhere near as good as the dream of getting there. They claimed that even with backing from the richest board we've ever had, and are ever likely to have again resulted in failure, meaning that we will never be anything higher than a third/fourth tier team.
Hopefully, this new dawn of building the club from within will prove otherwise, resulting in those who jumped ship becoming life-long fans again.
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from an outsider's perspective, the oft-mentioned idea of making a real effort to engage with the local Polish community seems like a fairly simple step that could reap decent rewards...seems to be suggested on here on a regular basis, generally agreed to be a good idea, then not acted upon in any meaningful way at all; more Pole's that come along the better IMHO - they seem to love their football and are fond of generating a mental atmosphere when sufficiently interested...
I've heard what sounded like eastern European languages a few times outside the Keepmoat & the people were all sporting Rovers scarves so there already seems to be some interest from that community in following us.
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Interesting to suggest expats as a potential income stream. I am an expat and buy a season ticket because I wish to support the club. I offer my ticket to the club when I cannot get to matches so that they may offer it to a worthy cause of which they have identified many in the community.
I don't share the view we are weak on marketing . I think the Club Doncaster strategy is very good strategic thinking which both strengthens our identity in the community and generates extra income from the multitude of activities that go on at Keepmoat.
We had similar posts in the programmes in the 50's when we had the other good spell playing Leeds, West Ham, Liverpool and Everton week in week out its not a new phenominan poor gates at Donny. Sure you have observed that Brian. Couple that with the conference years and a whole generation of weeds, wendies etc lost we need to buil a sustainable base. In the championship we had kids round Mexborough with rovers shirts on playing in the local parks. Its that kind of hook and ongoing sustainability we need to develop. Unfortunately we are top, but of division 4, so we need to keep doing things off the field and I am sure the lost souls will gradually return.
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Keep up the momentum on the pitch into next season. If the team are performing this time next season like they are now, then we will see a welcome upturn in attendances.
Sadly for some, there was alot of damage done over last few seasons. My dad and brother, who have been sth for years, gave up two seasons ago, rightly or wrongly. And before anyone moans about committment etc, my brother in particular was with the team through their darkest hour in the conference years home and away.
They just fell out of love with DRFC. It started way back during the "experiment" and was compounded with relegation into league two.
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My dad and brother were very loyal to the club for some years, yet they have not renewed for two seasons and no phone call from the club.
Im sure a correctly worded phone call with an incentive or two would go a long way to getting them back.
On a PR note, every chippy within a 5 mile radius of the keepmoat should have a flyer in the window advertising the next home game.
Ive seen this in other towns up and down the country.
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We have to sell the dream back to those who became despondent because of past failures. Not everyone is as faithful as those of us who never stopped attending regularly despite our more recent failings. I must admit a lot of my enthusiasm went when the dream of reaching the Championship proved to be unsustainable (twice), and although I never stopped going, I can empathise with those who did.
The majority of those who no longer attend who I've spoken to told me they no longer go because actually reaching the promised land of Championship football wasn't anywhere near as good as the dream of getting there. They claimed that even with backing from the richest board we've ever had, and are ever likely to have again resulted in failure, meaning that we will never be anything higher than a third/fourth tier team.
Hopefully, this new dawn of building the club from within will prove otherwise, resulting in those who jumped ship becoming life-long fans again.
This is more likely where the truth lay.
As someone who's worked with the club for a few years in the past, being a passionate supporter also frustrated at certain things that were barriers to people attending more regularly, I can assure you most of the above has been explored many times.
We have engaged a consultant which helped turn the club into a more fan engaged club than before and we are enjoying many of the benefits of this now. Not too long ago we were paying up to £480 for an adult season ticket and £28 on the gate. There were no memberships, multi tickets, pay on the gate, direct debits, offers, family deals, Black Bank etc, etc.
We have engaged with the Polish community in the past and the feedback was a general 'too expensive' and 'not interested'. The vast majority of workers who have migrated to Doncaster are intelligent people who can make their own minds up.
Whilst effective marketing will be a constant ongoing issue for the club, just because you don't know about it, doesn't mean to say it's not happening or being looked at. That said I'm sure the club/fan panel are always open to ideas.
As one who spent many an hour handing out leaflets, hanging posters in shops, you maybe surprised about the lack of interest in Rovers and in football in general.
I've done my time searching for the answers. Sometimes the truth hurts but I suspect the way we are going some faith may be restored and things will pick up again.
Did you take up any of the invitations to put your ideas forward Mr Frost?
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We have to sell the dream back to those who became despondent because of past failures. Not everyone is as faithful as those of us who never stopped attending regularly despite our more recent failings. I must admit a lot of my enthusiasm went when the dream of reaching the Championship proved to be unsustainable (twice), and although I never stopped going, I can empathise with those who did.
The majority of those who no longer attend who I've spoken to told me they no longer go because actually reaching the promised land of Championship football wasn't anywhere near as good as the dream of getting there. They claimed that even with backing from the richest board we've ever had, and are ever likely to have again resulted in failure, meaning that we will never be anything higher than a third/fourth tier team.
Hopefully, this new dawn of building the club from within will prove otherwise, resulting in those who jumped ship becoming life-long fans again.
This is more likely where the truth lay.
As someone who's worked with the club for a few years in the past, being a passionate supporter also frustrated at certain things that were barriers to people attending more regularly, I can assure you most of the above has been explored many times.
We have engaged a consultant which helped turn the club into a more fan engaged club than before and we are enjoying many of the benefits of this now. Not too long ago we were paying up to £480 for an adult season ticket and £28 on the gate. There were no memberships, multi tickets, pay on the gate, direct debits, offers, family deals, Black Bank etc, etc.
We have engaged with the Polish community in the past and the feedback was a general 'too expensive' and 'not interested'. The vast majority of workers who have migrated to Doncaster are intelligent people who can make their own minds up.
Whilst effective marketing will be a constant ongoing issue for the club, just because you don't know about it, doesn't mean to say it's not happening or being looked at. That said I'm sure the club/fan panel are always open to ideas.
As one who spent many an hour handing out leaflets, hanging posters in shops, you maybe surprised about the lack of interest in Rovers and in football in general.
I've done my time searching for the answers. Sometimes the truth hurts but I suspect the way we are going some faith may be restored and things will pick up again.
Did you take up any of the invitations to put your ideas forward Mr Frost?
As i've posted many times, i've emailed the club and several occasions and they only one who ever replied to me was Ryan Murrant.
I'd start with social media and actually begin engaging with people who ask questions to the club on Facebook and Twitter.
It isn't difficult. Has there been any social media promotion of this saturdays potential promotion winning game?
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The interest in football is there but unfortunately 6 or 7 games a week can be watched in your armchair
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Well hands up time! Since my dad and I gave up our season tickets after 1st season in the keepmoat, iv only gone when there is an offer on! Except Portsmouth away and only because my brother lives there and married to a big pompy family.
Its down to cost, above £20 lost me. Its a huge mental barrier. My two boys are season ticket holders and I listen, text them and consider myself a supporter but only attend 3/4 home games a year!
May be a stage of life thing but theres always better things to spend my money on.
Elephant in the room the COST of football. By the way im far from the poverty line, can walk to the moat from bessy, but I also value my cash! Football out valued me.
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Cost does come into football but with a similar record in 2003 /4 when we were champions in division 3 (league2) we had crowds of the same level. It's league 2 football
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Donny is a one team town with a lager than most towns catchment area,but said town has 5 other much bigger near by city's teams taking u told football fans away on match days.
John Ryan could never get his head round this FACT and it will never change.be happy for what we get now .
Should rovers get back into championship crowds will have gone up from today yes,but that's via duoble increase in away support and untold glory seeking rovers fans .
God help if rovers should ever get into the prem as that will be truely horrible experience for the rovers fans today that pay out for season or match day tickets.
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It's funny people complain about £20. I could spend that in half hour round town and so do others probably on booze but wouldn't think twice about it
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I think the 'experiment' has far more to answer for our decline in attendances than most people care to admit.
As for strategic marketing, as far as I'm aware there is groundwork being laid and the focus of this in the last few years has been aimed towards the families and 'junior' supporters to build a fan base from scratch rather than try and entice most of the Doncaster public who have already decided their loyalty to Rovers long ago.
I'm sure they are currently engaging with around 80 of the 125 or so Doncaster schools, in the past 5 years we've often been high up the leaderboard nationally for player visits to schools, we've had the Rovers Roadshow and on top of that seen targeted improvements in the Family Stand be it through Donny's Deli, activities underground, tickets for attendance schemes and so forth. We also remain one of top clubs in the country in terms of our junior to adults in our attendances.
Obviously the true result of this and its success won't be seen by most currently at the club, they are paving the foundations for future generations which doesn't seem an entire waste if you ask me. Take this years Season Ticket campaign for example, the U24 category is specifically designed to bridge the gap from young fans to full paying adults, it's part and parcel of what the club is trying to do.
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Everyone's different. For example. Of our group, at our height there we 10 season ticket holders. In recent times this shrank to just two. Part way into the season, this went back up to three.
Of the remaining 7, 6 dropped out due to the dire consequences of the Dickov era. 3 of them are having a sabbatical and will not return until next season having had the stuffing knocked out of them.
2 remain members and attend regularly but not every home game.
One other has come of age and has 'other' interests and commitments.
One other, was here for the ride but is not a Rover through and through (nor any other team) . Has even declined free tickets having 'Better things to do'.
All of the above do not need any special marketing, they observe from a distance and cost is not a barrier.
Come the next couple of seasons, we may be back up to 8. This could easily be reflected amongst those missing 1000s we know are out there.
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Don't get how people can just stop like that
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Two of our regular group didn't renew this season, for family reasons.
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Don't get how people can just stop like that
Exactly. It's not in our DNA 😉. We have to accept that other folk are not the same and life is full of other distractions!
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There used to be seven of us, now there's three.
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Must be me but out of 6 of us who went everywhere I'm just about last man standing
One died three drifted away and one comes now and then
The dire football was main reason
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Everyone's different. For example. Of our group, at our height there we 10 season ticket holders. In recent times this shrank to just two. Part way into the season, this went back up to three.
Of the remaining 7, 6 dropped out due to the dire consequences of the Dickov era. 3 of them are having a sabbatical and will not return until next season having had the stuffing knocked out of them.
2 remain members and attend regularly but not every home game.
One other has come of age and has 'other' interests and commitments.
One other, was here for the ride but is not a Rover through and through (nor any other team) . Has even declined free tickets having 'Better things to do'.
All of the above do not need any special marketing, they observe from a distance and cost is not a barrier.
Come the next couple of seasons, we may be back up to 8. This could easily be reflected amongst those missing 1000s we know are out there.
Hopefully we'll start bringing back the people lost from the Dickov era.
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There used to be seven of us, now there's three.
What's the story with yours BB if you don't mind me asking?
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Cost does come into football but with a similar record in 2003 /4 when we were champions in division 3 (league2) we had crowds of the same level. It's league 2 football
Our average gate in 2003/04 promotion season was 6900 if my memory serves me correctly.
We are over 1000 down on that this season.
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We have to sell the dream back to those who became despondent because of past failures. Not everyone is as faithful as those of us who never stopped attending regularly despite our more recent failings. I must admit a lot of my enthusiasm went when the dream of reaching the Championship proved to be unsustainable (twice), and although I never stopped going, I can empathise with those who did.
The majority of those who no longer attend who I've spoken to told me they no longer go because actually reaching the promised land of Championship football wasn't anywhere near as good as the dream of getting there. They claimed that even with backing from the richest board we've ever had, and are ever likely to have again resulted in failure, meaning that we will never be anything higher than a third/fourth tier team.
Hopefully, this new dawn of building the club from within will prove otherwise, resulting in those who jumped ship becoming life-long fans again.
This is more likely where the truth lay.
As someone who's worked with the club for a few years in the past, being a passionate supporter also frustrated at certain things that were barriers to people attending more regularly, I can assure you most of the above has been explored many times.
We have engaged a consultant which helped turn the club into a more fan engaged club than before and we are enjoying many of the benefits of this now. Not too long ago we were paying up to £480 for an adult season ticket and £28 on the gate. There were no memberships, multi tickets, pay on the gate, direct debits, offers, family deals, Black Bank etc, etc.
We have engaged with the Polish community in the past and the feedback was a general 'too expensive' and 'not interested'. The vast majority of workers who have migrated to Doncaster are intelligent people who can make their own minds up.
Whilst effective marketing will be a constant ongoing issue for the club, just because you don't know about it, doesn't mean to say it's not happening or being looked at. That said I'm sure the club/fan panel are always open to ideas.
As one who spent many an hour handing out leaflets, hanging posters in shops, you maybe surprised about the lack of interest in Rovers and in football in general.
I've done my time searching for the answers. Sometimes the truth hurts but I suspect the way we are going some faith may be restored and things will pick up again.
Did you take up any of the invitations to put your ideas forward Mr Frost?
As i've posted many times, i've emailed the club and several occasions and they only one who ever replied to me was Ryan Murrant.
I'd start with social media and actually begin engaging with people who ask questions to the club on Facebook and Twitter.
It isn't difficult. Has there been any social media promotion of this saturdays potential promotion winning game?
This isn't exactly true is it?
Shaun Lockwood contacted you when he was at the club, I also attempted on numerous occasions to set up meetings and to allow you to put your point of view across. Each time you responded the same way by stating 'why should I do the clubs job for them?'
As for promoting this weekends game I've seen it it mentioned about 7 or 8 times already today from Facebook, through twitter etc etc.
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There were 5 of us that were all season ticket holders and did most away games too. Now there's only 2 of us that go every week, 1 doesn't have a season ticket because he can't make midweek games but still attends most Saturday games home and away, and the other 2 hardly come at all now unless it's a good all day away trip. The 2 who don't come much now stopped coming 1 year into the Dickov era and have found different things to do on a Saturday.
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...you mean there are other ways to spend your Saturday?
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We have to sell the dream back to those who became despondent because of past failures. Not everyone is as faithful as those of us who never stopped attending regularly despite our more recent failings. I must admit a lot of my enthusiasm went when the dream of reaching the Championship proved to be unsustainable (twice), and although I never stopped going, I can empathise with those who did.
The majority of those who no longer attend who I've spoken to told me they no longer go because actually reaching the promised land of Championship football wasn't anywhere near as good as the dream of getting there. They claimed that even with backing from the richest board we've ever had, and are ever likely to have again resulted in failure, meaning that we will never be anything higher than a third/fourth tier team.
Hopefully, this new dawn of building the club from within will prove otherwise, resulting in those who jumped ship becoming life-long fans again.
This is more likely where the truth lay.
As someone who's worked with the club for a few years in the past, being a passionate supporter also frustrated at certain things that were barriers to people attending more regularly, I can assure you most of the above has been explored many times.
We have engaged a consultant which helped turn the club into a more fan engaged club than before and we are enjoying many of the benefits of this now. Not too long ago we were paying up to £480 for an adult season ticket and £28 on the gate. There were no memberships, multi tickets, pay on the gate, direct debits, offers, family deals, Black Bank etc, etc.
We have engaged with the Polish community in the past and the feedback was a general 'too expensive' and 'not interested'. The vast majority of workers who have migrated to Doncaster are intelligent people who can make their own minds up.
Whilst effective marketing will be a constant ongoing issue for the club, just because you don't know about it, doesn't mean to say it's not happening or being looked at. That said I'm sure the club/fan panel are always open to ideas.
As one who spent many an hour handing out leaflets, hanging posters in shops, you maybe surprised about the lack of interest in Rovers and in football in general.
I've done my time searching for the answers. Sometimes the truth hurts but I suspect the way we are going some faith may be restored and things will pick up again.
Did you take up any of the invitations to put your ideas forward Mr Frost?
As i've posted many times, i've emailed the club and several occasions and they only one who ever replied to me was Ryan Murrant.
I'd start with social media and actually begin engaging with people who ask questions to the club on Facebook and Twitter.
It isn't difficult. Has there been any social media promotion of this saturdays potential promotion winning game?
This isn't exactly true is it?
Shaun Lockwood contacted you when he was at the club, I also attempted on numerous occasions to set up meetings and to allow you to put your point of view across. Each time you responded the same way by stating 'why should I do the clubs job for them?'
As for promoting this weekends game I've seen it it mentioned about 7 or 8 times already today from Facebook, through twitter etc etc.
The only person from the club to contact me was Ryan Murrant and I met with him. End of. So don't make things up to suit your agenda please.
Yep there's a brief Facebook post. Cant see anything. On twitter or the official site.
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Cost does come into football but with a similar record in 2003 /4 when we were champions in division 3 (league2) we had crowds of the same level. It's league 2 football
Yes it is league 2 football. It is also league 2 football for all the other teams in our league.
So why are Luton averaging nearly 8000 and Plymouth nearly 9000
Yes Plymouth's population is similar to Doncaster's over 300,000 and they have a huge catchment area, although most of West Devon and Cornwall is sparsely populated. Plymouth similar to us have come down from the Championship in recent years. So why do they command 3000 more fans on ave this season than us?
As for Luton they are a smaller town than us and have been in the conference and league 2 for the last 7/8 seasons. They have spent most of this season in a play off position. So why are they commanding gates 2000 above ours? These are questions we seriously need to address.
Yes I know the last 2 1/2 seasons prior to this one have been dire but when we are top of the league, scoring goals for fun and playing attractive attacking football the crowds should be returning in a much greater number than they are doing at present. What is the answer, what needs to be done that isn't being done to get those empty seats at the Moat filled? I am still trying to work out what will work without the club losing revenue. It has to be something that will increase revenue.
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Cost does come into football but with a similar record in 2003 /4 when we were champions in division 3 (league2) we had crowds of the same level. It's league 2 football
Yes it is league 2 football. It is also league 2 football for all the other teams in our league.
So why are Luton averaging nearly 8000 and Plymouth nearly 9000
Yes Plymouth's population is similar to Doncaster's over 300,000 and they have a huge catchment area, although most of West Devon and Cornwall is sparsely populated. Plymouth similar to us have come down from the Championship in recent years. So why do they command 3000 more fans on ave this season than us?
As for Luton they are a smaller town than us and have been in the conference and league 2 for the last 7/8 seasons. They have spent most of this season in a play off position. So why are they commanding gates 2000 above ours? These are questions we seriously need to address.
Yes I know the last 2 1/2 seasons prior to this one have been dire but when we are top of the league, scoring goals for fun and playing attractive attacking football the crowds should be returning in a much greater number than they are doing at present. What is the answer, what needs to be done that isn't being done to get those empty seats at the Moat filled? I am still trying to work out what will work without the club losing revenue. It has to be something that will increase revenue.
They are bigger clubs.
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Well hands up time! Since my dad and I gave up our season tickets after 1st season in the keepmoat, iv only gone when there is an offer on! Except Portsmouth away and only because my brother lives there and married to a big pompy family.
Its down to cost, above £20 lost me. Its a huge mental barrier. My two boys are season ticket holders and I listen, text them and consider myself a supporter but only attend 3/4 home games a year!
May be a stage of life thing but theres always better things to spend my money on.
Elephant in the room the COST of football. By the way im far from the poverty line, can walk to the moat from bessy, but I also value my cash! Football out valued me.
I understand you have a £20 barrier but the price of a regular matchday ticket for an adult is £20. If you paid £10 for membership, as I did, then that price is £17 but you must buy before the day of the game.
A £299 season ticket would have been £13 per game. OK not everyone can afford a ST nor can go to enough games, but if you go to at least 4 then the membership already pays back.
You may have been put off by higher prices in previous seasons, and that's fair enough, but this season it has been really easy to pay less than £20..
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We have to sell the dream back to those who became despondent because of past failures. Not everyone is as faithful as those of us who never stopped attending regularly despite our more recent failings. I must admit a lot of my enthusiasm went when the dream of reaching the Championship proved to be unsustainable (twice), and although I never stopped going, I can empathise with those who did.
The majority of those who no longer attend who I've spoken to told me they no longer go because actually reaching the promised land of Championship football wasn't anywhere near as good as the dream of getting there. They claimed that even with backing from the richest board we've ever had, and are ever likely to have again resulted in failure, meaning that we will never be anything higher than a third/fourth tier team.
Hopefully, this new dawn of building the club from within will prove otherwise, resulting in those who jumped ship becoming life-long fans again.
This is more likely where the truth lay.
As someone who's worked with the club for a few years in the past, being a passionate supporter also frustrated at certain things that were barriers to people attending more regularly, I can assure you most of the above has been explored many times.
We have engaged a consultant which helped turn the club into a more fan engaged club than before and we are enjoying many of the benefits of this now. Not too long ago we were paying up to £480 for an adult season ticket and £28 on the gate. There were no memberships, multi tickets, pay on the gate, direct debits, offers, family deals, Black Bank etc, etc.
We have engaged with the Polish community in the past and the feedback was a general 'too expensive' and 'not interested'. The vast majority of workers who have migrated to Doncaster are intelligent people who can make their own minds up.
Whilst effective marketing will be a constant ongoing issue for the club, just because you don't know about it, doesn't mean to say it's not happening or being looked at. That said I'm sure the club/fan panel are always open to ideas.
As one who spent many an hour handing out leaflets, hanging posters in shops, you maybe surprised about the lack of interest in Rovers and in football in general.
I've done my time searching for the answers. Sometimes the truth hurts but I suspect the way we are going some faith may be restored and things will pick up again.
Did you take up any of the invitations to put your ideas forward Mr Frost?
As i've posted many times, i've emailed the club and several occasions and they only one who ever replied to me was Ryan Murrant.
I'd start with social media and actually begin engaging with people who ask questions to the club on Facebook and Twitter.
It isn't difficult. Has there been any social media promotion of this saturdays potential promotion winning game?
This isn't exactly true is it?
Shaun Lockwood contacted you when he was at the club, I also attempted on numerous occasions to set up meetings and to allow you to put your point of view across. Each time you responded the same way by stating 'why should I do the clubs job for them?'
As for promoting this weekends game I've seen it it mentioned about 7 or 8 times already today from Facebook, through twitter etc etc.
The only person from the club to contact me was Ryan Murrant and I met with him. End of. So don't make things up to suit your agenda please.
Yep there's a brief Facebook post. Cant see anything. On twitter or the official site.
Its on twitter, the clubs official twitter
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Plymouth have always attracted decent crowds due to their location and catchment. Barring Exeter it's a long way to travel to another league club.
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Cost does come into football but with a similar record in 2003 /4 when we were champions in division 3 (league2) we had crowds of the same level. It's league 2 football
Yes it is league 2 football. It is also league 2 football for all the other teams in our league.
So why are Luton averaging nearly 8000 and Plymouth nearly 9000
Yes Plymouth's population is similar to Doncaster's over 300,000 and they have a huge catchment area, although most of West Devon and Cornwall is sparsely populated. Plymouth similar to us have come down from the Championship in recent years. So why do they command 3000 more fans on ave this season than us?
As for Luton they are a smaller town than us and have been in the conference and league 2 for the last 7/8 seasons. They have spent most of this season in a play off position. So why are they commanding gates 2000 above ours? These are questions we seriously need to address.
Yes I know the last 2 1/2 seasons prior to this one have been dire but when we are top of the league, scoring goals for fun and playing attractive attacking football the crowds should be returning in a much greater number than they are doing at present. What is the answer, what needs to be done that isn't being done to get those empty seats at the Moat filled? I am still trying to work out what will work without the club losing revenue. It has to be something that will increase revenue.
They are bigger clubs.
Brilliant reply Mr Frost is that your most constructive solution to our gates.
Total garbage, how do you come to the conclusion that they are bigger clubs. Answer that statement please because I would like to see the evidence that backs that up.
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I don't think the Mansfield fixture itself needs marketing at all, nor any individual match.
Anyone with a passing interest in Doncaster Roves can easily find out about the fixture and how to get a ticket. We managed well enough in the days before the internet and social media, so can do so now.
Where marketing promotions can and would help, IMHO, is if there is a ticket offer on. That is a different matter altogether.
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At their peak, didn't rovers have 7/8k Sth? ( 1st championship season)
The club could correspond with all those who were sth and are now not to ask , why not?
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Cost does come into football but with a similar record in 2003 /4 when we were champions in division 3 (league2) we had crowds of the same level. It's league 2 football
Yes it is league 2 football. It is also league 2 football for all the other teams in our league.
So why are Luton averaging nearly 8000 and Plymouth nearly 9000
Yes Plymouth's population is similar to Doncaster's over 300,000 and they have a huge catchment area, although most of West Devon and Cornwall is sparsely populated. Plymouth similar to us have come down from the Championship in recent years. So why do they command 3000 more fans on ave this season than us?
As for Luton they are a smaller town than us and have been in the conference and league 2 for the last 7/8 seasons. They have spent most of this season in a play off position. So why are they commanding gates 2000 above ours? These are questions we seriously need to address.
Yes I know the last 2 1/2 seasons prior to this one have been dire but when we are top of the league, scoring goals for fun and playing attractive attacking football the crowds should be returning in a much greater number than they are doing at present. What is the answer, what needs to be done that isn't being done to get those empty seats at the Moat filled? I am still trying to work out what will work without the club losing revenue. It has to be something that will increase revenue.
Both Luton and Plymouth have traditionally averaged higher attendances than us. The reasons are given in the posts above. If there was a magic wand that would bring all these people back, I'm sure the club would wave it. For a good proportion it seems things are not irretrievable and promotion and a progressive outlook will bring many back.
As Mr Croft says, the youth and young adults are being targeted and assisted so we should see growth in these groups, which is good for the future.
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The Mansfield game has been on the official Twitter at least 7 times since yesterday.
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Cost does come into football but with a similar record in 2003 /4 when we were champions in division 3 (league2) we had crowds of the same level. It's league 2 football
Yes it is league 2 football. It is also league 2 football for all the other teams in our league.
So why are Luton averaging nearly 8000 and Plymouth nearly 9000
Yes Plymouth's population is similar to Doncaster's over 300,000 and they have a huge catchment area, although most of West Devon and Cornwall is sparsely populated. Plymouth similar to us have come down from the Championship in recent years. So why do they command 3000 more fans on ave this season than us?
As for Luton they are a smaller town than us and have been in the conference and league 2 for the last 7/8 seasons. They have spent most of this season in a play off position. So why are they commanding gates 2000 above ours? These are questions we seriously need to address.
Yes I know the last 2 1/2 seasons prior to this one have been dire but when we are top of the league, scoring goals for fun and playing attractive attacking football the crowds should be returning in a much greater number than they are doing at present. What is the answer, what needs to be done that isn't being done to get those empty seats at the Moat filled? I am still trying to work out what will work without the club losing revenue. It has to be something that will increase revenue.
They are bigger clubs.
Brilliant reply Mr Frost is that your most constructive solution to our gates.
Total garbage, how do you come to the conclusion that they are bigger clubs. Answer that statement please because I would like to see the evidence that backs that up.
They are bigger clubs. Look at their comparative histories.
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I don't think the Mansfield fixture itself needs marketing at all, nor any individual match.
Anyone with a passing interest in Doncaster Roves can easily find out about the fixture and how to get a ticket. We managed well enough in the days before the internet and social media, so can do so now.
Where marketing promotions can and would help, IMHO, is if there is a ticket offer on. That is a different matter altogether.
That's very naive.
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There used to be seven of us, now there's three.
Do you live in Midsommer?
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If he does, he's only got two more weeks then it'll be him getting bumped off...
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Mr Frost evidence please not ridiculous statements.
We have spent 5 of the last 9 seasons in the Championship.
Don't think Plymouth or Luton have or have I been on a different planet since August 2008
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Since 1990 lutons average home attendance has never dropped below 5000. In fact looking back through their whole history there was only two seasons below 5k. 1988 and 1989.
Based on average crowds history would show that they are a better supported club purely based on numbers. Source - Wikipedia.
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Mr Frost evidence please not ridiculous statements.
We have spent 5 of the last 9 seasons in the Championship.
Don't think Plymouth or Luton have or have I been on a different planet since August 2008
I'm sure you can base how big a club is based solely on the last ten years.
Plymouth and Luton are bigger clubs than us.
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Mr Frost evidence please not ridiculous statements.
We have spent 5 of the last 9 seasons in the Championship.
Don't think Plymouth or Luton have or have I been on a different planet since August 2008
I'm sure you can base how big a club is based solely on the last ten years.
Plymouth and Luton are bigger clubs than us.
So that's your evidence is it Mr Frost just simply telling me without anything to substantiate it.
Brilliant.
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From 71 to 2003 rovers never got above 5k average bar one season. On many seasons the average never made 3k in this period.
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How many fans that followed us through thick and thin have either died or become to old or infirm to attend matches?
I can think of loads over the last few years and these are the sort of fans that are hard to replace.
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There used to be seven of us, now there's three.
What's the story with yours BB if you don't mind me asking?
Three stopped going because after all the endeavour to get to the Championship, they felt there was a lack of further investment to keep us there. They also thought Sean O'Driscoll wasn't up to the job and should have been sacked long before he actually was, and in fact said they'd not renew their season tickets as long as he was in charge, claiming the 'Tippy-Tappy' style football didn't help in our struggle to compete in the Championship.
Basically, and no doubt like the vast majority, whatever reasons people give for no longer going, the common denominator is we simply stopped winning regularly.
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Mr Frost evidence please not ridiculous statements.
We have spent 5 of the last 9 seasons in the Championship.
Don't think Plymouth or Luton have or have I been on a different planet since August 2008
I'm sure you can base how big a club is based solely on the last ten years.
Plymouth and Luton are bigger clubs than us.
So that's your evidence is it Mr Frost just simply telling me without anything to substantiate it.
Brilliant.
Like I said. Look at our comparative histories. All the evidence is there.
They are bigger clubs.
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Plymouths average attendance has only dropped below 5k for three seasons in the clubs history. They have been a very well supported club whose average season attendances are mostly in 5 figures.
In summary, Luton and Plymouth have much better attendances historically than rovers. Plymouth significantly more. In a lot of cases double what rovers have had
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From 71 to 2003 rovers never got above 5k average bar one season. On many seasons the average never made 3k in this period.
We were in league div 3/4 and conference during those years.
What about all the years in late 40's and 50's when Belle Vue regularly had gates of 20,000 plus.
2008/09 11,994 2009/10 10,950
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Why did Murrant leave?
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Mr Frost evidence please not ridiculous statements.
We have spent 5 of the last 9 seasons in the Championship.
Don't think Plymouth or Luton have or have I been on a different planet since August 2008
I'm sure you can base how big a club is based solely on the last ten years.
Plymouth and Luton are bigger clubs than us.
So that's your evidence is it Mr Frost just simply telling me without anything to substantiate it.
Brilliant.
Like I said. Look at our comparative histories. All the evidence is there.
They are bigger clubs.
Show me the evidence. What is your definition of a bigger club?
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From 71 to 2003 rovers never got above 5k average bar one season. On many seasons the average never made 3k in this period.
I'm not trying to paint rovers support in a bad light, merely signposting some to the facts about our crowds compared to the likes of Plymouth or Luton. Even during the twilight seasons in the champ both Luton and Plymouth were still matching our support.
We are, all things considered, not as well supported as either club.
In the 40s and 50,s every club got huge attendances. They were the hay days of football.
We were in league div 3/4 and conference during those years.
What about all the years in late 40's and 50's when Belle Vue regularly had gates of 20,000 plus.
2008/09 11,994 2009/10 10,950
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Mr Frost evidence please not ridiculous statements.
We have spent 5 of the last 9 seasons in the Championship.
Don't think Plymouth or Luton have or have I been on a different planet since August 2008
I'm sure you can base how big a club is based solely on the last ten years.
Plymouth and Luton are bigger clubs than us.
But we have proved on the pitch we are the best team so far this season in the league. Supporters don't win games managers and players do.
I don't see all this preoccupation with club size and supporters, get it right on the pitch consistently and supporters will return, if they are still interested in the team. We have a level of support this might improve if we play at a higher level.
What the club needs to do is not turn off supporters, they have done that, I hope the tide is turning but it will be a slow rebuild when it comes to supporters.
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From another angle, as inferred above, the life cycle means we lose supporters through natural causes. Have we done enough to replace them? I hold my hands up, I've not fathered any offspring (To my knowledge) so I'm a contributor to the decline! 😉
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My son goes mostly when I do as do the grandkids but not always together.
The problem is that I drive and pay for the kids and drinks.
At 68 I don't go to every game now so when I stop coming or driving that might be it for my family.
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Lincoln City got over 7000 gate tonight so does that mean Lincoln are a bigger club than Rovers. We averaged 3,600 when we were promoted out of the conference.
I think we are a bigger club than Lincoln but how do you measure accurately the size of a club?
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Brilliant reply Mr Frost is that your most constructive solution to our gates.
Total garbage, how do you come to the conclusion that they are bigger clubs. Answer that statement please because I would like to see the evidence that backs that up.
more extended periods of playing at a higher level; Luton were first tier barely twenty years ago and had remained at that level for over a decade prior to that; that's the single biggest factor in establishing a bigger fan base; the only possible criteria that you could say Rovers are "bigger" than either of those two is the number of fourth tier promotions we've won, which is fairly piss-pot given that every one of those follows a relegation (or promition from the conference, if you want to be pedantic) !
even a cursory look at plymouth's league record shows them to have been a second/third tier side for the majority of their history; luton are div one/two - we're three/four - there's no real contest....
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For the record, I am not pre occupied in supporter base size, whether a club is big or not etc etc. I don't care about it.
The numbers speak for themselves.
We are what we are. A club that has dwelled mainly in the lower leagues, three and four as they were for many years, with a limited support base, affected by geographical proximity to historically more successful clubs with more perceived social appeal (eg Leeds)
The crowds will swell if we skirt into the championship again. It will be another fleeting spell though.
History has shown rovers to be a yo yo club over the years. I predict this will continue.
Rovers are on an upward curve though at the moment, so let's enjoy it while it lasts.
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Lincoln had a spell from 1948 to 1960 where they attracted 5 figure crowds (old league 2). On the whole though, on average, I'd say Lincoln have a lot of similarities with Rovers based purely on numbers, taking out league differences.
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What about all the years in late 40's and 50's when Belle Vue regularly had gates of 20,000 plus.
2008/09 11,994 2009/10 10,950
for the post-war years that we managed five figure averages, plymouth attracted more fans than us on for all but two seasons, when we had marginally higher gates; since 1945 luton's attendances have topped five figure averages for the season on more than twice as many occasions as ours have, and plymouth have managed it a couple more times than luton, so that removes the attendance argument from the equation fairly categorically...
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Lincoln City got over 7000 gate tonight so does that mean Lincoln are a bigger club than Rovers. We averaged 3,600 when we were promoted out of the conference.
I think we are a bigger club than Lincoln but how do you measure accurately the size of a club?
How big a club is, is very subjective.
Looking at attendances alone and ignoring league differences, Lincoln and rovers are very similar.
I would say they are about the same.
They are on the verge of league football again, have a similar support base, and are even talking of a new out of town ground.
Within the next 5 seasons, I have no doubt we will be seeing them v rovers in a league game.
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My lad used to come with me but then he turned into an Emo so he just stays at home, plays his guitar and listens to My Chemical Romance instead.
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have a look at the "all time" figures
league position - average attendance
rovers - 64th - 7061
luton - 44th - 10317
argyle - 49th - 12301
lincoln - 61st - 5606
that includes seasons out of the football league, as 10th in the conference equates to a position of 102nd or whatever
so, by the numbers, we're pretty much on a par lincoln but can forget competing with the other two
other factors - trophies won, relative quality of players based on something quantitive like the total number of international caps won while at each club, possibly - but i can't quite be arsed to work all that out right now
however, what can be said absolutely unequivocally is that red and white hoops are a far, far better kit than green, orange, or whatever lincoln might be poncing about in, so on that basis, they can all get to f**k, really....
;-)
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And none of the above has absolutely anything to do with the op's question!
But Herman gets my vote for the best response to the side-tracked subject.
Back to the original topic, I hope, we are doing some good things, but I just get the feeling we could be doing a lot more. Like I said previously, you simply can't argue that the team and management are not doing their bit, but do we really think the Club are fully in sync?
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BB strange isn't it our group followed throughout the years when we were pants
I honestly feel that the success we had ruined our long standing fan base, but obviously built up a new layer of fans who then only know our recent history
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Why did Murrant leave?
He was shown the door
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have a look at the "all time" figures
league position - average attendance
rovers - 64th - 7061
luton - 44th - 10317
argyle - 49th - 12301
lincoln - 61st - 5606
that includes seasons out of the football league, as 10th in the conference equates to a position of 102nd or whatever
so, by the numbers, we're pretty much on a par lincoln but can forget competing with the other two
other factors - trophies won, relative quality of players based on something quantitive like the total number of international caps won while at each club, possibly - but i can't quite be arsed to work all that out right now
however, what can be said absolutely unequivocally is that red and white hoops are a far, far better kit than green, orange, or whatever lincoln might be poncing about in, so on that basis, they can all get to f**k, really....
;-)
Right thanks for those stats Herman. It's a shame Mr Frost can't come up with anything at all to substansiate his statements.
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I don't think the Mansfield fixture itself needs marketing at all, nor any individual match.
Anyone with a passing interest in Doncaster Roves can easily find out about the fixture and how to get a ticket. We managed well enough in the days before the internet and social media, so can do so now.
Where marketing promotions can and would help, IMHO, is if there is a ticket offer on. That is a different matter altogether.
That's very naive.
No, it isn't..
What were our average attendances in seasons 1980/81 and 1984/85?
I can't vouch for the source quickly but one place I found http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/donr.htm (http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/donr.htm) suggests 5412 and 4103 respectively.
In each of those seasons we had a "big" game, the promotion clincher vs Bournemouth in 1981 with 11,373 there http://www.11v11.com/matches/doncaster-rovers-v-afc-bournemouth-02-may-1981-46421 (http://www.11v11.com/matches/doncaster-rovers-v-afc-bournemouth-02-may-1981-46421)
And in 1985 our biggest game for a decade was the FA Cup tie vs QPR, when 10,583 were there. http://www.thestar.co.uk/retro/retro-1985-cup-run-for-doncaster-rovers-1-6697062 (http://www.thestar.co.uk/retro/retro-1985-cup-run-for-doncaster-rovers-1-6697062)
I was at both games, as many on here would be too. Both fixtures doubled the average attendances and no social media marketing etc.
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Most people got all of their info from the Doncaster evening paper in those days. In fact I'd hazard a guess that most households bought one so we actually would have had more media exposure but it will all have in the same place.
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Right thanks for those stats Herman. It's a shame Mr Frost can't come up with anything at all to substansiate his statements.
i'm paid (a significant amount) to do his dirty work for him...
:cool:
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have a look at the "all time" figures
league position - average attendance
rovers - 64th - 7061
luton - 44th - 10317
argyle - 49th - 12301
lincoln - 61st - 5606
that includes seasons out of the football league, as 10th in the conference equates to a position of 102nd or whatever
so, by the numbers, we're pretty much on a par lincoln but can forget competing with the other two
other factors - trophies won, relative quality of players based on something quantitive like the total number of international caps won while at each club, possibly - but i can't quite be arsed to work all that out right now
however, what can be said absolutely unequivocally is that red and white hoops are a far, far better kit than green, orange, or whatever lincoln might be poncing about in, so on that basis, they can all get to f**k, really....
;-)
Right thanks for those stats Herman. It's a shame Mr Frost can't come up with anything at all to substansiate his statements.
I told you to look at each clubs history for the evidence. If you'd done what I'd said you'd have found the evidence for yourself.
Fact is, I was right either way.
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I believe Murrant is at motherwell now
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I don't think the Mansfield fixture itself needs marketing at all, nor any individual match.
Anyone with a passing interest in Doncaster Roves can easily find out about the fixture and how to get a ticket. We managed well enough in the days before the internet and social media, so can do so now.
Where marketing promotions can and would help, IMHO, is if there is a ticket offer on. That is a different matter altogether.
That's very naive.
No, it isn't..
What were our average attendances in seasons 1980/81 and 1984/85?
I can't vouch for the source quickly but one place I found http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/donr.htm (http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/donr.htm) suggests 5412 and 4103 respectively.
In each of those seasons we had a "big" game, the promotion clincher vs Bournemouth in 1981 with 11,373 there http://www.11v11.com/matches/doncaster-rovers-v-afc-bournemouth-02-may-1981-46421 (http://www.11v11.com/matches/doncaster-rovers-v-afc-bournemouth-02-may-1981-46421)
And in 1985 our biggest game for a decade was the FA Cup tie vs QPR, when 10,583 were there. http://www.thestar.co.uk/retro/retro-1985-cup-run-for-doncaster-rovers-1-6697062 (http://www.thestar.co.uk/retro/retro-1985-cup-run-for-doncaster-rovers-1-6697062)
I was at both games, as many on here would be too. Both fixtures doubled the average attendances and no social media marketing etc.
So are you suggesting that social media marketing will have zero effect on attendances? That is simply not correct. If it wasn't effective there would be no point to it.
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I don't think the Mansfield fixture itself needs marketing at all, nor any individual match.
Anyone with a passing interest in Doncaster Roves can easily find out about the fixture and how to get a ticket. We managed well enough in the days before the internet and social media, so can do so now.
Where marketing promotions can and would help, IMHO, is if there is a ticket offer on. That is a different matter altogether.
That's very naive.
No, it isn't..
What were our average attendances in seasons 1980/81 and 1984/85?
I can't vouch for the source quickly but one place I found http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/donr.htm (http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/donr.htm) suggests 5412 and 4103 respectively.
In each of those seasons we had a "big" game, the promotion clincher vs Bournemouth in 1981 with 11,373 there http://www.11v11.com/matches/doncaster-rovers-v-afc-bournemouth-02-may-1981-46421 (http://www.11v11.com/matches/doncaster-rovers-v-afc-bournemouth-02-may-1981-46421)
And in 1985 our biggest game for a decade was the FA Cup tie vs QPR, when 10,583 were there. http://www.thestar.co.uk/retro/retro-1985-cup-run-for-doncaster-rovers-1-6697062 (http://www.thestar.co.uk/retro/retro-1985-cup-run-for-doncaster-rovers-1-6697062)
I was at both games, as many on here would be too. Both fixtures doubled the average attendances and no social media marketing etc.
So are you suggesting that social media marketing will have zero effect on attendances? That is simply not correct. If it wasn't effective there would be no point to it.
Err, you are the one saying it does - but presenting no evidence for that statement other than you say so.
I can tell you now that social media marketing makes no difference whatsoever to my attendance at Rovers - or any football match. I would be very surprised if it does make a difference to anyone posting on here. Yes it can have a place in attracting the 'floating fan' but so can any kind of marketing/publicity.
Where I do think social media has had an effect on out attendances is the negativity that some fans have taken too over the past few seasons has turned people away. Its easier to find a reason not to go than to go.
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I don't think the Mansfield fixture itself needs marketing at all, nor any individual match.
Anyone with a passing interest in Doncaster Roves can easily find out about the fixture and how to get a ticket. We managed well enough in the days before the internet and social media, so can do so now.
Where marketing promotions can and would help, IMHO, is if there is a ticket offer on. That is a different matter altogether.
That's very naive.
No, it isn't..
What were our average attendances in seasons 1980/81 and 1984/85?
I can't vouch for the source quickly but one place I found http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/donr.htm (http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/donr.htm) suggests 5412 and 4103 respectively.
In each of those seasons we had a "big" game, the promotion clincher vs Bournemouth in 1981 with 11,373 there http://www.11v11.com/matches/doncaster-rovers-v-afc-bournemouth-02-may-1981-46421 (http://www.11v11.com/matches/doncaster-rovers-v-afc-bournemouth-02-may-1981-46421)
And in 1985 our biggest game for a decade was the FA Cup tie vs QPR, when 10,583 were there. http://www.thestar.co.uk/retro/retro-1985-cup-run-for-doncaster-rovers-1-6697062 (http://www.thestar.co.uk/retro/retro-1985-cup-run-for-doncaster-rovers-1-6697062)
I was at both games, as many on here would be too. Both fixtures doubled the average attendances and no social media marketing etc.
So are you suggesting that social media marketing will have zero effect on attendances? That is simply not correct. If it wasn't effective there would be no point to it.
Err, you are the one saying it does - but presenting no evidence for that statement other than you say so.
I can tell you now that social media marketing makes no difference whatsoever to my attendance at Rovers - or any football match. I would be very surprised if it does make a difference to anyone posting on here. Yes it can have a place in attracting the 'floating fan' but so can any kind of marketing/publicity.
Where I do think social media has had an effect on out attendances is the negativity that some fans have taken too over the past few seasons has turned people away. Its easier to find a reason not to go than to go.
Absolute rubbish.
Social media is a proven way of marketing any kind of product or service, and this includes football.
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It is but largely only if the user wants to see it. If someone doesn't choose to see it they won't.
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It's an option, which shouldn't be dismissed just because one person on here says it makes no difference to him. There are plenty who don't use this site but still go to matches.
For me, and I have no proof because I don't work there, I just have the feeling that the Club admin/sales lags behind whatever we do on the pitch. They have for some considerable time and, whilst there has possibly been some improvements, there has to be so much more they could do.
There are plenty of ideas on here and possibly not all of them are goers, but some could be more then credible. Who checks out these things and who sets the strategy? Have we got one?
Whatever it is that gets tried, they do have to realise that an awful lot of support have been allowed to dwindle away and it will take a monumental effort to get them back, and more besides, if we are to maintain our push back to the Championship.
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BB strange isn't it our group followed throughout the years when we were pants
I honestly feel that the success we had ruined our long standing fan base, but obviously built up a new layer of fans who then only know our recent history
You could have a point roversdude. Without checking the figures it seems that when I started going in the mid-sixties Rovers crowds were dictated by games won rather than the higher the league they were in. For instance, I think I'm right in saying Rovers attendances were higher doing well in division 4 than they were doing badly in division 3.
It was almost inevitable back then that after promotion from division 4 we would struggle in division 3. Attendances would then drop quickly, probably because the vast majority of fans were less committed financially, as season tickets were far less popular than paying on the gate back then. This meant that many of the newly acquired fans who jumped on the promotion band wagon, very soon jumped back off once the team started losing. Attendances were far more sporadic than they are nowadays as a consequence.
It seems that crowd levels don't fluctuate as much as they used to, and this could well be because of season tickets. The choice of renewing a season ticket is made (obviously) prior to a season, and those who decide against renewing won't be easily influenced back during the season knowing the fact that it will normally cost them more per game than if they'd bought a season ticket in the first place.
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I also think that there are also a lot less people that go to games not involving their club. In the mid sixties we always had far bigger gates for more attractive games. We could go from 4-5k to 7-8k and this was at a time when normally there weren't as many away fans unless a local opponent.
I've watched Bradford City about four times since moving here in 1977.
I go when they play Rovers but once had free tickets v Newcastle, one fund raising game when they were in admin and a couple of times with mates. The admission price makes it a dear day if you have no great affinity with the club.
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Answer the bloody phones quicker please.
Ive been 'you are caller number three' for 15 mins now !!
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BB strange isn't it our group followed throughout the years when we were pants
I honestly feel that the success we had ruined our long standing fan base, but obviously built up a new layer of fans who then only know our recent history
Then its worth asking are these new layer 'fans of Doncaster Rovers' or 'fans of Football' .
Success will bring increased attendance, as its a lot easier to attract someone to watch a previous years Premiership side than Newport on a Tuesday night as well as more away fans ( think of the spike in away fans getting the Keepmoat in for the first time when we hit the Championship ), but most of these home fans are just customers not supporters and when the going gets tough they will find entertainment elsewhere ( its not Hard to get to a Man City game if you just want to get a few games a season in ) we will pick a few up for the long term but we are never going to be a club that pulls 10k in regularly in for a Fourth Division game in the modern era
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We missed the boat in the mid sixties. Good investment then and we could have built something.
Step forward (or backwards) Hubert Bates.
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A few people I know were of that opinion about today's owners 12 months ago. Hopefully, they're having a change of opinion.
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It needed a lot less money then though BB.
That was a real kick in the teeth for us fans.
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From what we see on here from the testimony directly from people we know who jumped off the bandwagon, it seems the consequences of the Dickov era and subsequent relegations have had a lasting effect.
Marketing by social media alone will have little or no effect on these folk. The real marketing comes from results, performances and a repairing of the wrongs to get us back to where we should have been.
Some may be lost forever but I reckon once we gain promotion and show that we still have ambition to progress, then we will see the number swell.
That doesn't mean social media marketing, or marketing through local press, doesn't have it's place, but it's not the main thing that will motivate people to return.
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It needed a lot less money then though BB.
That was a real kick in the teeth for us fans.
Yes it was mate, and EVERYBODY was unanimous about Bates' lack of ambition, when a bit more investment could have kept us in the second tier.
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We could have built the fan base as well.
A lot of miners moved to the area from Scotland and the North East in the years leading up to our promotion. Both places hotbeds of football and too far to travel to watch their home team.
An absolute disaster. We waited seven years for promotion and threw it away.
Look what Coventry did with Jimmy Hill as manager. He certainly got their ball rolling. We could have been similar.
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I don't think the Mansfield fixture itself needs marketing at all, nor any individual match.
Anyone with a passing interest in Doncaster Roves can easily find out about the fixture and how to get a ticket. We managed well enough in the days before the internet and social media, so can do so now.
Where marketing promotions can and would help, IMHO, is if there is a ticket offer on. That is a different matter altogether.
That's very naive.
No, it isn't..
What were our average attendances in seasons 1980/81 and 1984/85?
I can't vouch for the source quickly but one place I found http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/donr.htm (http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/donr.htm) suggests 5412 and 4103 respectively.
In each of those seasons we had a "big" game, the promotion clincher vs Bournemouth in 1981 with 11,373 there http://www.11v11.com/matches/doncaster-rovers-v-afc-bournemouth-02-may-1981-46421 (http://www.11v11.com/matches/doncaster-rovers-v-afc-bournemouth-02-may-1981-46421)
And in 1985 our biggest game for a decade was the FA Cup tie vs QPR, when 10,583 were there. http://www.thestar.co.uk/retro/retro-1985-cup-run-for-doncaster-rovers-1-6697062 (http://www.thestar.co.uk/retro/retro-1985-cup-run-for-doncaster-rovers-1-6697062)
I was at both games, as many on here would be too. Both fixtures doubled the average attendances and no social media marketing etc.
So are you suggesting that social media marketing will have zero effect on attendances? That is simply not correct. If it wasn't effective there would be no point to it.
No, I am saying it will be useful for ticket offers and promotions, rather than for general awareness.
If you are an occasional match-goer, but with an interest in DRFC and use the internet, chances are you'll look at DROS, follow on twitter etc already. But the issue is why those sorts of supporters don't attend matches more often. Promoting a fixture on social media will have little effect on those who have little desire to come along (for whatever reason).
However if there are offers etc that might help persuade them to come along, then yes, use all viable means to communicate.
It might only be me, but a few years ago I wasn't a regular spectator - I started coming again more frequently but I found out what I needed myself. I wouldn't have been swayed by club marketing in the basic decision to attend or not.
That's the difference I am trying to point out. Use the marketing tools when there is something new or different to put to supporters?
Sometimes in the past I would only know a game was on by reading the fixture list in that day's paper. I would then decide whether to go or not. I am still the same but I find the info myself. There are many stay away fans who will be in the same boat now, but folks aren't so unaware that they need things pushed at them all the time.
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Big club, massive club,small club,its how your club is perceived by other clubs supporters that counts.I think we are perceived as O.K.by most other clubs supporters.
If a league table was made up on this idea,I wonder how far down the table Millwall,Leeds,or Glasgow Rangers would be in other supporters tables.
Bigger attendances shit reputations.
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Now, as a ST holder I wouldn't object, I would even support a Freebie or a token £5/kids free, to come and try (again) before you buy, before the seasons out.
Now this may cause some complications for those who may have already purchased advance tickets. Now this would be something you'd use all media avenues to promote, although I suspect word of mouth would soon get about.
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This is all rubbish. We don't need investment. None at all. We've got now exactly what it takes to get more bums on seats down the Keepmoat. Fun too.
Simples. Make more babies.
BobG
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Perhaps Rovers could sell a range of condoms in club colours, albeit with pin pricks in them 😉. It could be a post promotion baby boom!
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Why did Murrant leave?
He was shown the door
Why though? Was it something he did that prompted it or does no one know?
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It needed a lot less money then though BB.
That was a real kick in the teeth for us fans.
Yes it was mate, and EVERYBODY was unanimous about Bates' lack of ambition, when a bit more investment could have kept us in the second tier.
What makes you think he had any money to invest?
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Look at the gates we were getting at the time. We were at that time the biggest club in the division.
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It needed a lot less money then though BB.
That was a real kick in the teeth for us fans.
Yes it was mate, and EVERYBODY was unanimous about Bates' lack of ambition, when a bit more investment could have kept us in the second tier.
What makes you think he had any money to invest?
I don't think Bates or the rest of the board were exceptionally rich, but I don't think extreme wealth was as imperative back then. What Bates did have then though was a well-supported club. A club that was surely more self-sustaining than it is now.
Perhaps it wasn't so much a case of lack of investment by means of Bates' own cash that made him so maligned by the public, but the lack of investment of the money the club must have inevitably made for itself.
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They not only pocketed a lot of gate money but sold good players.
The fans also paid for the new floodlights that the board or Bates then bragged about having.