Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Sprotyrover on April 18, 2017, 11:32:31 am
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Jeremy Corbyn just pooped his pants! :turd: :turd: :turd:
General Election 8th June...Bring it on ! :suicide:
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Labour in disarray have no chance.
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Labour in disarray have no chance.
Well, one chance, promise to halt Brexit. 49% of the country didn't want it.
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Unfortunately it looks like it. I hope Labour can now pull together and get their policies over at last.
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I can see what happened to the Tories in 1997 happening to Labour this year. Complete decimation, with many of the possible leaders (after Corbyn finally does the decent thing) losing their seats and not being able to stand for Leader. The result being that Labour ends up with it's own version of William Hague. I'd want Dan Jarvis as the next leader, he'd appeal to middle England and wouldn't carry any of the Miliband/Corbyn baggage that would prolong the division the party is in at the moment. The only problem with that, though, is a friend of mine knows him and doesn't think he'd want to be Leader because he's a widower with kids to raise. I hope my friend is wrong...and that Jarvis manages to hold onto his seat!
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Dan Jarvis did lose his first wife but I thought he had remarried. If he can't hang on in Barnsley Central then the PLP will be able to travel in the same taxi.
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This is a disaster.
The purpose of calling an election is simply for the Tories to crush any opposition for the time when the inevitable garbage will follow their hard Brexit madness. They know that they're likely to come away from this with a 100+ seat majority.
This is driven by Labour weakness, wouldn't have happened with a strong Labour opposition. They must be shitting themselves, as am I. This is probably the most important period in our lifetimes and we'll be led through it by this bunch of sociopaths who'll soon have a huge mandate.
Hope I'm wrong.
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And Sturgeon will still be peddling the lie that the only way to keep out the Tories is to vote SNP despite the fact that Labour's annihilation (partly self inflicted) in Scotland is what has given them their majority, effectively.
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time to get grass-roots activists and that huge labour membership organised and hit those seats we actually have a chance of winning.
as a side note - can any Tory voters on here actually say how the cons have been a force for good over the past 7 years and why the working/middle classes should vote for them?
Took me 5 mins to come up with a list of how they've pretty much f**ked up most things in that time:
Class sizes increasing and public school funding being cut
highest rate of teachers leaving the profession in a decade
Over 1200 Sure Start centres closed
Small businesses paying more in tax and NI
Inheritance tax cuts for the rich
Zero hour contracts at an all time high being used for Low Unemployment propaganda
Child trust funds abolished
EMA scrapped
Tuition fees trebled and uni grants for the poorest abolished
Gulf between the rich and the poor the widest it has been in over 100 years
1/4 families have less than £100 in savings
Over 1 million public sector jobs lost in last 7 years
social care cuts have directly led to over 30,000 deaths
its there a positive side to the tories I'm missing?
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Employment up and income taxes decreased are two easy ones....
Labour is in bother for this election, be some turnaround if they get a decent result, but after the past few years not insurmountable.
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I think that Labour needs to come to terms that most of their voters have views which are slightly to the right of Ghengis Khans and re build their party accordingly.
If I'm not mistaken I believe the largest vote to leave came from us in the north.
I agree with Glyn Wigley about Dan Jarvis, some of the 'Luvvies' who post on here have to come to terms with the fact that the Idiots currently running Labour need putting into a care home for the Mentally unstable.
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Employment up and income taxes decreased are two easy ones....
If you don't include zero-hour contracts it's down. I know a few people on zero-hour contracts;they can go over a week without work, yet aren't able to claim benefits because they are in employment. Very sneaky.
Income tax decreases put money in people's pocket, but yet again the rich save more because of it. It's like they can't give something to the poor without giving a bit more to the rich. EVERYTHING they do is steered toward the top 10%, and it I can't remember it being this brazen.
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The only good thing about this is that at least we'll get the Labour shambles over with now rather than it dragging on till 2020. Once Corbyn and his mates have gone at least there'll be a chance of a Labour recovery and maybe even victory in five years - the alternative is having the Tories in for at least eight years.
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The only good thing about this is that at least we'll get the Labour shambles over with now rather than it dragging on till 2020. Once Corbyn and his mates have gone at least there'll be a chance of a Labour recovery and maybe even victory in five years - the alternative is having the Tories in for at least eight years.
Do you mean Labour returning to Centrist policies? Worked well last time didn't it. NOT.
Why do you think Corbyn is so popular amongst the grass root Labour supporters.
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The only good thing about this is that at least we'll get the Labour shambles over with now rather than it dragging on till 2020. Once Corbyn and his mates have gone at least there'll be a chance of a Labour recovery and maybe even victory in five years - the alternative is having the Tories in for at least eight years.
Do you mean Labour returning to Centrist policies? Worked well last time didn't it. NOT.
Why do you think Corbyn is so popular amongst the grass root Labour supporters.
So how many seats do you think Labour will gain at this election then?
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Probably just as many as they would have got being Tory apologists.
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The only good thing about this is that at least we'll get the Labour shambles over with now rather than it dragging on till 2020. Once Corbyn and his mates have gone at least there'll be a chance of a Labour recovery and maybe even victory in five years - the alternative is having the Tories in for at least eight years.
Bloody hell nearly a first me agreeing with Glyn :) :) :)
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Probably just as many as they would have got being Tory apologists.
Waffle and avoidance worthy of Teresa May at PMQs. Tell us how many Labour MPs you think a party that is popular just with Labour grass root supporters is going to return. You must have an idea how much better it's going to do than a centrist party otherwise you wouldn't have said what you did.
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Labour will lose and they will lose handsomely, there's no doubt about it. The right wing press are going to have an absolute field day attacking Corbyn and unfortunately our nation is full of people who still insist on believing what they read in the papers irrespective of how discredited they are.
Personally I quite like Corbyn. I don't necessarily agree with all of his opinions and policies, however he's offering something differen. Mainstream politics has let down so many people over the decades that something has to change. But it won't. John Lennon was right when he said politicians can get away with anything as long as they ensure people have enough for fags, beer and a telly.
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Glyn
I've no idea how many seats Labour will gain or lose.
What I do know is that they failed miserably with watered down Tory policies in 2015 so the party quite rightly have returned to democratic socialist values which is where they should be. And one day they will get back into power with that approach if they've got the guts to stick with it.
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Glyn
I've no idea how many seats Labour will gain or lose.
What I do know is that they failed miserably with watered down Tory policies in 2015 so the party quite rightly have returned to democratic socialist values which is where they should be. And one day they will get back into power with that approach if they've got the guts to stick with it.
The main reason Labour failed in 2015 is that they were led by the charisma vacuum that is Ed Miliband. Were centrist policies a disaster in 1997, 2001 and 2005? Or socialist policies a triumph in 1983? History is not on your side, I'm afraid.
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Yes you're right about Milliband. Nobody listened to what he had to say apart from Hell Yes.
It stinks.
Joe Public hasnt a clue what Corbyn's policies are either (and most of them would benefit all right minded people)He's just the old loony left in a crumpled jacket.
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Glyn
I've no idea how many seats Labour will gain or lose.
What I do know is that they failed miserably with watered down Tory policies in 2015 so the party quite rightly have returned to democratic socialist values which is where they should be. And one day they will get back into power with that approach if they've got the guts to stick with it.
The main reason Labour failed in 2015 is that they were led by the charisma vacuum that is Ed Miliband. Were centrist policies a disaster in 1997, 2001 and 2005? Or socialist policies a triumph in 1983? History is not on your side, I'm afraid.
Considering the Blair government declined in popularity sharply every year, and left a party in ashes, wiped off the map in Scotland, with a reputation for starting illegal wars, that is such electoral poison that it's still to this day brought up almost every week in PMQs, then history isn't exactly on your side either.
Labour are pretty much done for a good while, and Corbyn is certainly culpable. As is his front bench. However he's no more culpable than the PLP, who have behaved shockingly, or the media, who treated Corbyn even worse than they treated Miliband. It's like a perfect storm of crapness.
It's a shame too, as under Corbyn they probably had the best chance they've had since 1997. A united Labour, washing their hands of the Blair/Brown stink, and capturing the anti-establishment wave before it peaked with Brexit and Trump/Sanders could have been quite a force. Instead we've got right of centre Labour in Scotland where nobody wants them, pro-remain Labour MPs in heavy Leave areas, chancers like John Mann and Owen Smith too out for themselves to toe the party line, and a leader torn in two between his younger, remain-voting membership and his leave voting heartlands. Oh, and let's not forget those successful former Labour favourites Blair and Mandelson, who openly throw mud at the current leadership rather than talk up Labour's new policies which do prove popular when people get to hear about them. If you think all that can be laid at the door of Labour moving slightly left of centre I don't know what to tell you. The main reason Labour crashed and burned in 2015 - and continue to crash and burn in 2017 - was a generation in the making.
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A lot of sense being posted on here I can't see any end to this shambles until somebody like Dan Jarvis takes the helm.
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Yep - best thing for Labour - gave my membership up two months ago - is to get the obvious spanking that will result from this election and the best way to get rid of the unelectable Corbyn and move on. Meanwhile I will vote Lib Dem again in Harrogate.
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I'll be voting Lib Dem in Bradford but I expect Labour to win the seat anyway.
Tories a distant third.
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Yes that's right. Vote for the party that will get into bed with anyone for a bit of power.
They rightly were annihilated at the last election and now they've got the cheek to claim they are the only viable alternative, rubbing their hands expecting the second referendum seeking remainers to flood to them.
I voted to stay in the EU but I'd rather vote for UKIP than that completely dishonourable lot.
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I'm wondering if I should stick a bet on Labour having less than 150 seats. I haven't checked the odds yet but they can't be all that good surely? What staggers me though is the fact that left leaning folk seem to learn nothing from the history of their own party. Enthusing 20% of the electorate will get you 20% of the votes, and, resounding defeat. Groupthink gone mad at the moment. I too let my membership lapse recently.What's the point supporting an organisation that's in perpetual denial of political reality?
For the first time ever, I shan't be voting Labour.
BobG
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What was the point of supporting the Rovers when we were bottom of the Conference?
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At least Rovers were trying not to be bottom of the Conference.
Mind you, it's sort of a good analogy. How many supporters have buggered off the past few seasons when Rovers were so crap to have plummeted two divisions?
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Yes that's right. Vote for the party that will get into bed with anyone for a bit of power.
They rightly were annihilated at the last election and now they've got the cheek to claim they are the only viable alternative, rubbing their hands expecting the second referendum seeking remainers to flood to them.
I voted to stay in the EU but I'd rather vote for UKIP than that completely dishonourable lot.
Tommy my MP some years ago was Terry Rooney who came across as arrogant and distant. The Labour Party would ring before an election asking for support and that was it.
I always vote Lib Dems in the local elections because they make the effort to look after their constituents.
I voted for David Ward in the last two elections. He won one and lost the last vote. The vote is a straight split between Labour and Lib Dems. I may not agree with all of their policies but they will not form a government and do work hard for their constituents here. I got disillusioned with Labour, their record at local level is abysmal.
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At least Rovers were trying not to be bottom of the Conference.
Mind you, it's sort of a good analogy. How many supporters have buggered off the past few seasons when Rovers were so crap to have plummeted two divisions?
Yeah that's what I was getting at Glyn 😊
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Yes that's right. Vote for the party that will get into bed with anyone for a bit of power.
They rightly were annihilated at the last election and now they've got the cheek to claim they are the only viable alternative, rubbing their hands expecting the second referendum seeking remainers to flood to them.
I voted to stay in the EU but I'd rather vote for UKIP than that completely dishonourable lot.
Tommy my MP some years ago was Terry Rooney who came across as arrogant and distant. The Labour Party would ring before an election asking for support and that was it.
I always vote Lib Dems in the local elections because they make the effort to look after their constituents.
I voted for David Ward in the last two elections. He won one and lost the last vote. The vote is a straight split between Labour and Lib Dems. I may not agree with all of their policies but they will not form a government and do work hard for their constituents here. I got disillusioned with Labour, their record at local level is abysmal.
Righto idler I accept you are voting for honourable reasons. Nothing wrong with that.
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I just want a government that actually wants to act for all classes and unite the country. I don't think that it will ever happen.
Common sense seems to be sadly lacking these days.
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Would be nice idler but not in our lifetime.
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At least Rovers were trying not to be bottom of the Conference.
Mind you, it's sort of a good analogy. How many supporters have buggered off the past few seasons when Rovers were so crap to have plummeted two divisions?
Yeah that's what I was getting at Glyn 😊
So you agree that pissing off the fairweather fans just to concentrate on pleasing the hardcore fans who will always be there anyway isn't good sense? Because that's what appealing to just the grassroots Labour supporters equates to - you lose the floating voters you need to win an election.
As for having the b*llocks to carry on sticking to a set of socialist policies that floating voters won't vote for in the hope that somehow they'll get more support at the next election, that's like saying that if a man dies when you hang him, keep on hanging him till he gets used to it.
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Only a few weeks back a thread was started on here about that idiot Diane abbot. it was pointed out that while Labour had that fcukwit Corbin at the helm ,and that Labour were in a mess.
They have been in a mess since Corbin got his feet in under the Labour table but no fcuker could see this or point it out and nothing was done about it.
Labour have just been sleep walking with pillocks like abbot hanging off Corbin's shirt tails dragging the party more into a mess.
It's not just Corbin that's the problem with Labour as there is a bag full of like minded within its ranks .
It would be a cold day in hell if I was ever to vote Labour and the lib dems can go and get them sens felt.i would rather vote for 'lord such and the monster raving loon party ' if he stood.
Green Party can stop licking each other's fannys and eat some meat as they are not worth the ink on the voting slip as it's a wasted vote as things stand today.
If I live in Scotland I would never have voted for that poisoned dwarf sturgeon ,sooner put a solid 4by2 round her swede .
That leaves conservative or U.Kip
Ukip have done what they set out to do as in brexit and are now a spent force since Farge left.
So if a gun was held to my head I vote blue > conservative >
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Only a few weeks back a thread was started on here about that idiot Diane abbot. it was pointed out that while Labour had that fcukwit Corbin at the helm ,and that Labour were in a mess.
They have been in a mess since Corbin got his feet in under the Labour table but no fcuker could see this or point it out and nothing was done about it.
Labour have just been sleep walking with pillocks like abbot hanging off Corbin's shirt tails dragging the party more into a mess.
It's not just Corbin that's the problem with Labour as there is a bag full of like minded within its ranks .
It would be a cold day in hell if I was ever to vote Labour and the lib dems can go and get them sens felt.i would rather vote for 'lord such and the monster raving loon party ' if he stood.
Green Party can stop licking each other's fannys and eat some meat as they are not worth the ink on the voting slip as it's a wasted vote as things stand today.
If I live in Scotland I would never have voted for that poisoned dwarf sturgeon ,sooner put a solid 4by2 round her swede .
That leaves conservative or U.Kip
Ukip have done what they set out to do as in brexit and are now a spent force since Farge left.
So if a gun was held to my head I vote blue > conservative >
Brilliant stuff. Hilarious! 😀😁
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Gentle reminder that Corbyn's "socialist" policies are actually quite popular with the floating voters and public at large.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/85102/poll-shows-public-support-jeremy (https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/85102/poll-shows-public-support-jeremy)
Maybe if the leadership, front bench, PLP at large and Scottish Labour could all get on the same page they could actually get somewhere. Oh well.
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Would be nice idler but not in our lifetime.
.... or anyone elses imho
Barons and Serfs. It was ever thus. The Barons introduce new "benefits" from time to time and the Serfs are sometimes pleased (even appeased) with what they get from the "deal" BUT
... they are still Serfs and always will be.
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I keep on reading that Corbyns policy's are well liked by more than enough.
But it's just not Corbyn that's the problem with Labour ,likes of abbot are only adding to its downfall.
Close links to the unions don't help these days I guess ,ask the poor fcukers that live on the southwestern line into and out of London.
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I'm wondering if I should stick a bet on Labour having less than 150 seats. I haven't checked the odds yet but they can't be all that good surely? What staggers me though is the fact that left leaning folk seem to learn nothing from the history of their own party. Enthusing 20% of the electorate will get you 20% of the votes, and, resounding defeat. Groupthink gone mad at the moment. I too let my membership lapse recently.What's the point supporting an organisation that's in perpetual denial of political reality?
For the first time ever, I shan't be voting Labour.
BobG
Circular logic though innit that Bob? They're unelectable, so I won't vote for them?
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I keep on reading that Corbyns policy's are well liked by more than enough.
But it's just not Corbyn that's the problem with Labour ,likes of abbot are only adding to its downfall.
Close links to the unions don't help these days I guess ,ask the poor fcukers that live on the southwestern line into and out of London.
The British public are by and large not interested in his policies. It makes their brain hurt.
They didn't vote for Milliband coz he was boring and talked like he had a cold. They won't vote for Corbyn coz he's a loony commie who looks old and scruffy and loves Hamas and the IRA. Which is b*llocks.
I wish someone would tell me what is so bad about the whole raft of Corbyn's policies.
I've asked ...no reply.
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The love from corbyn towards ira is one the one thing don't sit well with me at all.
You can bet your last dollar that the ira today ,yesterday or whatever day don't love him ,and will only use him where and when.
Then you bring the hamas situation to the table and it spells 'wrong'ern ' to me .
Christ I bet corbyn is spooning a nest of adders at night time
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Now that I am back in England , I'm just pleased to have a ballot paper with no SNP candidate !!
In saying that , expect the Tories to run the SNP close in my old constituency in Moray ( Angus Robertson MP )
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HIghlandrover, does sturgeon still have pulling power north of the boarder ?
I see that she is pushing for yet another yes/ no vote ,will she get a swing to her way on the strength of brexit ?
Suppose when it comes to general election in June ,if the SNP do lose seats to conservatives or are run close by the cons it will effect her and snp's yes/no vote .
The sooner she is fcuked off the better ,as Iam sick of hearing her
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But it's just not Corbyn that's the problem with Labour ,likes of abbot are only adding to its downfall.
That's the crux of it, really. Anyone who thinks Labour will be better off after Corbyn goes is kidding themselves. Labour's shambles is a generation in the making, as I've said before.
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I'm at odds with this one.....I've always said that if you cant be bothered to vote you cant moan...but I'm seeing life from the other side of the fence...I've always voted Tory and I thought they did a great job in rescuing the country from the ashes of the last labour government but the last few years have been very unimpressive and I'm totally disconnected from them at the minute...
I cant and wont vote Lib dem because I believe in democracy and that cant be thrown away on the back of a quick recovery plan by promising to block brexit in the hope of attracting the 49%..Farron is a disgrace for doing that...And as for Labour,same old story..great at promising things they cant pay for and they cant run themselves at the minute, so how can they expect you to vote them in to a run a country....I'm at a total loss because none of them appeal in the slightest...
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Not on facebook , like you I was getting sick of the sight of Sturgeon . To me she appears to have control of the Central Belt ( Glasgow-Edinburgh ) but not as much in the north and north east and certainly not with the older generation who have basically ALL voted No ! People are certainly peed off with performances of Police Scotland and Education to name just 2 .
Over the past few years the Tories have been doing better and better in the Moray district but Angus Robertson the local MP has been popular due to his support of the military bases at Lossie , Kinloss and Fort George
Possibly be a clean sweep for the SNP though .
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I cant and wont vote Lib dem because I believe in democracy and that cant be thrown away on the back of a quick recovery plan by promising to block brexit in the hope of attracting the 49%..Farron is a disgrace for doing that...
I thought democracy was all about voting?
You seem to imply that Farron is a bandwagon-jumper whereas the Lib Dems have been a staunch and consistently pro-EU party all along. Perhaps you think they should just give up their principles like those Brexiteers with the big gobs keep telling Remainers to do?
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The love from corbyn towards ira is one the one thing don't sit well with me at all.
You can bet your last dollar that the ira today ,yesterday or whatever day don't love him ,and will only use him where and when.
Then you bring the hamas situation to the table and it spells 'wrong'ern ' to me .
Christ I bet corbyn is spooning a nest of adders at night time
Yet you will vote for a party who were in negotiations with the IRA for several years whilst professing in public that they would never deal with terrorists?
You will also vote for a party who sold the ingredients to Syria to make their chemical weapons, bombs for Saudi Arabia to drop on villages in Yemen, and Turkey and the Philippines to do who knows what to their own people.
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Was it not Labour that went into Iran while been lead down the garden path by that prick president brush
Which in turn after gadaffi was no more it left a country with no strong arm leadership that brought likes of isis to all our doorsteps in Europe .
Was it not Labour that opened its doors and arms to all and sundry from Eastern Europe and Middle East, Africa , Tim buk bloody two.
Was it not Labour that run up massive debts for the country last time they was in.
Was it not Labour that chucked money and houses to any f**ker that's out
Of work either with a limp or breading like rabbits > cash for kids > now has a new meaning .
Is it not labour that has gone so far to the left ,that if they was all in a swimming pool they could only do a left armed circle motion .
Is not Labour that have abbot in its ranks .
And most important is it not Labour that have moved so far from the working class into middle class that they have taken untold voters with them thinking they are now middle class
What can Labour do for the working class?
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f**king hell Oslo. I know you've claimed several times you don't like posting facts but that is literally the wrongest post I've ever seen on this forum. And I was here for all Madmick's spells.
How many times a day does Diane Abbott pop into your thoughts, by the way? I feel like she spurned you once.
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Mate I never back my facts up as I just go from memory ,which today
is shocking I admit .
But there is some valid points in that rant and the message board police will soon be along to put us right .
I stand by my Labour to middle class b*llocks thou
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Ahem... NOF, it's Tim buk bloody tu and breeding like rabbits.
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Was it not Labour that went into Iran while been lead down the garden path by that prick president brush
Which in turn after gadaffi was no more it left a country with no strong arm leadership that brought likes of isis to all our doorsteps in Europe .
Was it not Labour that opened its doors and arms to all and sundry from Eastern Europe and Middle East, Africa , Tim buk bloody two.
Was it not Labour that run up massive debts for the country last time they was in.
Was it not Labour that chucked money and houses to any f**ker that's out
Of work either with a limp or breading like rabbits > cash for kids > now has a new meaning .
Is it not labour that has gone so far to the left ,that if they was all in a swimming pool they could only do a left armed circle motion .
Is not Labour that have abbot in its ranks .
And most important is it not Labour that have moved so far from the working class into middle class that they have taken untold voters with them thinking they are now middle class
What can Labour do for the working class?
I'll start:
Iraq not Iran
Gaddafi was overthrown during a Conservative-Lib Dem coalition Government, not Labour
Freedom of movement in the EU was a key part of the Maastricht Treaty - signed by the Conservative Government in 1992.
Timbuktu is in Mali. Citizens of Mali need a visa to work in the UK.
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Thanks for the above mr syme I allways get Iraq and Iran mixed up and what's a 'q' and a 'n' between skollars as it's all down to the oil.
Gadaffi > Hussain > got these two mixed all the time aswell tbh ,they all look the same too me.
Hussain > Iraq
Gadaffi > Iran They both left a power vacuum when they was run out of whatever city and both country's were supplied a army of isis .
Labour was at the helm for the first mess and conservatives for the second as pointed out.
One mistake that you missed as it was bush not brush ,you can have that one on me .
As for that treaty In 1992 signed by the cons ,was it not on blairs watch as in tony when he laid the welcome Matt out for half of Eastern Europe without really vetting any of them and chucking money back to Eastern Europeans who were living in U.K. for their kids they had back in their home lands,via tax credits or whatever it was.
How do you stand on Labour > middle class punt ?
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Interesting, the company I work for a very large multinational but American based company used to have local based I suppose controllers for want of a better word, local knowledge, local geographical knowledge etc etc things worked pretty well, they moved everything to an Eastern European country ....absolute chaos no understanding whatsoever, 4 years down the line its still total utter chaos I may have worked the area for 20 odd years but I don't know nothing and they've been in their job a whole three weeks but they know better! most of them are so arrogant its untrue and they are moving more and more support services over there how the hell we have any contracts left is unbelievable.
I was talking to one of the decent ones the other evening they had a comedian on their national tv the other night apparently he was making jokes half the country work for my firm now and the other half start tomorrow :blink:
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How do you stand on Labour > middle class punt ?
I am trying work out how labour can have both 'moved to the middle classes' and 'have gone so far to the left ,that if they was all in a swimming pool they could only do a left armed circle motion' at the same time?
In my day policies aimed at benefitting the working class/people on lower incomes were termed socialist and on the left. Those aimed at the middle class were centrist.
So either the party has moved left and is persuing policies that benefit the working class - or it hasn't and is 'a middle class punt'. It can't be both.
It was Gordon Brown who said 'we are all middle class now' btw.
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It's just my impression that labour is moving towrads middle class from my wonky eye.
But for sure whatever eye you are looking from labour is as far away from the working class than it's ever been today.
I mean you watch sky news today and voters saying they have voted for labour all their life ,but they will vote conservative come june because of the state labour is in .this would never have been heard of some 20 years ago .
In the long term this might be the making of labour ,as corbyn will be shown the door and maybe the fruit cakes will be shown the door with him.
saying the above all the media and experts and polls was saying U.K. Would vote to remain on brexit
They also claimed that Clinton (silly bitch) would get in .
Now most are saying or expecting a conservative white wash > I might have a £100 on labour as one thing for sure the British voters don't like to be spoke down too like they was with brexit.
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Just watched BBC news just now which backs up my statement about the great British public.
They did a vox pop type thing in Bolton about who they are voting for and why. Christ almighty if that's a true representation of the electorate I give up. Not a f**king clue between em.
It reminded me of a Gumby sketch from Monty Python.
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I mean you watch sky news today and voters saying they have voted for labour all their life ,but they will vote conservative come june because of the state labour is in .this would never have been heard of some 20 years ago .
You're right. It was 34 years ago.
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The news go all out to find the muppets it makes good telly and sells papers the Mr Average don't get a look in no matter what they say
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The news go all out to find the muppets it makes good telly and sells papers the Mr Average don't get a look in no matter what they say
Especially Sky and Fox News, who pick the ones spouting what their owner wants us to believe.
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The news go all out to find the muppets it makes good telly and sells papers the Mr Average don't get a look in no matter what they say
Especially Sky and Fox News, who pick the ones spouting what their owner wants us to believe.
Crikey Glyn me an you agreeing twice in a few days :)
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If I want to know what's really going off I watch Al Jazeera news,BBC and the like are propaganda machines.
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The news go all out to find the muppets it makes good telly and sells papers the Mr Average don't get a look in no matter what they say
Especially Sky and Fox News, who pick the ones spouting what their owner wants us to believe.
Whoever they pick to interview what's the problem ,it could well be a 8 eyed 12ft purple monster but so long they have a vote and asked who they will vote for what's the issue.
Their single vote is as good as yours ,or is it that you don't like their answer .
You do know that the tv news stations might be talking to them for 3 or 4 mins each and will cut out
and screen what they want to screen,hence a 5 second showing .
Are you expecting a 8 page summary with full use of the English oxford dictionary in best BBC English
you couple of snobs
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I joined the LD's the day after the last General Election. I had been a lifelong LD voter but voted Labour last time (as many others probably did) to send a message regarding the lack of spine in the former coalition government.
Having seen the brutality of an unfettered Tory government since then, it's become increasingly apparent just how much of an influence the LD's held in the coalition, quietly scuppering some of the more extreme Tory plans.
In return for these concessions and - most significantly - the raising of the income tax earnings threshold they too readily conceded ground on their tuition fees pledge. That was a huge mistake by a weak leader in Nick Clegg. He should have foreseen the backlash and the fact that the Tories and their press would hold four aces while the LD's would be chasing a busted flush.
Since I joined the party, there have been some really engaging and progressive projects involving the consultation of the membership around how best to rebuild and revitalise the party. Much of this is an ongoing project dubbed "My Liberal Britain" which aims to define how the party can best go about planning for and campaigning on the way to build a fairer, more balanced and more tolerant society.
I'm pleased that there a strong theme in there around rewarding and encouraging hard work and helping those less fortunate whilst incentivising endeavour.
There was also a consultation around the stance on EU membership post the Brexit vote. My vote in this process was in favour of accepting the decision and lobbying hard for the best possible relationship with the EU (i.e. a "soft" Brexit). The majority voted in favour of campaigning to remain in the EU and that single issue is clearly going to form the basis of the GE manifesto.
My main concern is that Tim Farron is too easy a target for the press thanks to his ludicrous religious views. I didn't vote for him in the leadership election but I was rather uninspired by all the choices on that front. His voting record of late has been very much in line with the liberal agenda but it's a shame that given the unique circumstances of the Brexit-dominated election when the party could be in its strongest position for a decade we've got someone so vehemently committed to sky-fairyism at the helm.
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I cant and wont vote Lib dem because I believe in democracy and that cant be thrown away on the back of a quick recovery plan by promising to block brexit in the hope of attracting the 49%..Farron is a disgrace for doing that...
I thought democracy was all about voting?
You seem to imply that Farron is a bandwagon-jumper whereas the Lib Dems have been a staunch and consistently pro-EU party all along. Perhaps you think they should just give up their principles like those Brexiteers with the big gobs keep telling Remainers to do?
No but I'm a believer in Democracy...The referendum was sold to us on a no going back vote..Regardless of how you voted that was democracy in action...Make no bones about it the Liberals as a party were no longer a major force,they were relegated into the pot containing the Greens,ukip,and monster raving loonies....This is seen by them as a opportunity to entice voters with a promise they cant deliver....BREXIT is happening like it or not and it'smy opinion that all Political party's should be working together to make sure that from this point on we get the best deal for Britain...It's going to be hard enough as it is with the liberals saying they are going to vote against the proposals regardless of what they are...In the old days Farron would be hung from the tower gates for treason...I'm not sure weve made much progress since ;-)
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I cant and wont vote Lib dem because I believe in democracy and that cant be thrown away on the back of a quick recovery plan by promising to block brexit in the hope of attracting the 49%..Farron is a disgrace for doing that...
I thought democracy was all about voting?
You seem to imply that Farron is a bandwagon-jumper whereas the Lib Dems have been a staunch and consistently pro-EU party all along. Perhaps you think they should just give up their principles like those Brexiteers with the big gobs keep telling Remainers to do?
No but I'm a believer in Democracy...The referendum was sold to us on a no going back vote..Regardless of how you voted that was democracy in action...Make no bones about it the Liberals as a party were no longer a major force,they were relegated into the pot containing the Greens,ukip,and monster raving loonies....This is seen by them as a opportunity to entice voters with a promise they cant deliver....BREXIT is happening like it or not and it'smy opinion that all Political party's should be working together to make sure that from this point on we get the best deal for Britain...It's going to be hard enough as it is with the liberals saying they are going to vote against the proposals regardless of what they are...In the old days Farron would be hung from the tower gates for treason...I'm not sure weve made much progress since ;-)
If the Lib Dems run on a manifesto to block article 50 and get in and block it as per their promise, that IS democracy.
I'm not sure how you can say Lib Dems were relegated to the level of the Greens and then say they're making harder by voting to block Brexit. There's f**king NINE of them. It's like a mouse trying to block a motorway.
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During my lifetime I've lived under right wing governments, centre right governments, left wing governments and centre left governments, coalition governments, governments with huge majorities and governments with virtually no majorities. Do you know what the common denominator out of all of these is? I've not benefitted from any of them. Not one. My life, and that of my family, hasn't improved from any of them being in power.
I've been laid off 3 times, had massive negative equity on my house, I've been on needless strikes, I've been stung by unscrupulous bosses, I've seen the neighbourhood I used to live in decimated by high crime rates, drug use and general feelings of no prospects, we've bombed countries I've never heard of, we've sold bombs to countries I've never heard of, I've paid a fu**ing fortune for petrol, I've had terrorists want to blow us up, I've had 1% annual wage rises while bosses get 15% and a bonus, I've sat in A&E for 4 hours cos the doctors are on their arses, I've seen school fields built on, I pay a fortune for energy prices, I see schools that cant afford to provide every kid with a pen, I've seen my pals building firm go bust because he was continually being undercut by EU workers. I could go on and on.
And my point? Whoever wins the election will not stop the shit that the average person has to put up with every single day. Tories, Labour, Liberal etc..etc... none of them really give a shit about any of us.
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During my lifetime I've lived under right wing governments, centre right governments, left wing governments and centre left governments, coalition governments, governments with huge majorities and governments with virtually no majorities. Do you know what the common denominator out of all of these is? I've not benefitted from any of them. Not one. My life, and that of my family, hasn't improved from any of them being in power.
I've been laid off 3 times, had massive negative equity on my house, I've been on needless strikes, I've been stung by unscrupulous bosses, I've seen the neighbourhood I used to live in decimated by high crime rates, drug use and general feelings of no prospects, we've bombed countries I've never heard of, we've sold bombs to countries I've never heard of, I've paid a fu**ing fortune for petrol, I've had terrorists want to blow us up, I've had 1% annual wage rises while bosses get 15% and a bonus, I've sat in A&E for 4 hours cos the doctors are on their arses, I've seen school fields built on, I pay a fortune for energy prices, I see schools that cant afford to provide every kid with a pen, I've seen my pals building firm go bust because he was continually being undercut by EU workers. I could go on and on.
And my point? Whoever wins the election will not stop the shit that the average person has to put up with every single day. Tories, Labour, Liberal etc..etc... none of them really give a shit about any of us.
Absolutely nailed it. Post of our lifetime. Simple as.
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The news go all out to find the muppets it makes good telly and sells papers the Mr Average don't get a look in no matter what they say
Especially Sky and Fox News, who pick the ones spouting what their owner wants us to believe.
Whoever they pick to interview what's the problem ,it could well be a 8 eyed 12ft purple monster but so long they have a vote and asked who they will vote for what's the issue.
Their single vote is as good as yours ,or is it that you don't like their answer .
You do know that the tv news stations might be talking to them for 3 or 4 mins each and will cut out
and screen what they want to screen,hence a 5 second showing .
Are you expecting a 8 page summary with full use of the English oxford dictionary in best BBC English
you couple of snobs
Nothing wrong with members of the public having opinions. but it's not them who decides who ends up on screen, is it?
The problem is these stations do not have to show balance in their political coverage as the BBC has to according to its Charter. So they don't show any balance.
And you can shove your 'snob' comment back up your arse where it came from.
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I cant and wont vote Lib dem because I believe in democracy and that cant be thrown away on the back of a quick recovery plan by promising to block brexit in the hope of attracting the 49%..Farron is a disgrace for doing that...
I thought democracy was all about voting?
You seem to imply that Farron is a bandwagon-jumper whereas the Lib Dems have been a staunch and consistently pro-EU party all along. Perhaps you think they should just give up their principles like those Brexiteers with the big gobs keep telling Remainers to do?
No but I'm a believer in Democracy...The referendum was sold to us on a no going back vote..Regardless of how you voted that was democracy in action...Make no bones about it the Liberals as a party were no longer a major force,they were relegated into the pot containing the Greens,ukip,and monster raving loonies....This is seen by them as a opportunity to entice voters with a promise they cant deliver....BREXIT is happening like it or not and it'smy opinion that all Political party's should be working together to make sure that from this point on we get the best deal for Britain...It's going to be hard enough as it is with the liberals saying they are going to vote against the proposals regardless of what they are...In the old days Farron would be hung from the tower gates for treason...I'm not sure weve made much progress since ;-)
They can very easily deliver a second referendum on the negotiated terms so that everybody can make 'an informed decision' (Teresa May's own words!). No doubt you'll say that going with what the people vote for in another referendum isn't democratic or something...
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That argument is flawed, its nowhere near that easy..If they have a second referendum on the terms and that gets voted against then we are in a world of trouble as a country...Were do you go from there..GO cap back in hand to the EU with a "Please Sir can I have some more" ??? or repel article 50 at the last minute with all the penalty's that brings??...Leaving a undemoctratic outcome....
Crazy....The country was given the choice and it decided....We cant keep demanding votes until you get the decision you want...Thankfully the Tory's will win with a big majority and it will go through on the best terms we can negotiate as mandated by the British people...
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That argument is flawed, its nowhere near that easy..If they have a second referendum on the terms and that gets voted against then we are in a world of trouble as a country...Were do you go from there..GO cap back in hand to the EU with a "Please Sir can I have some more" ??? or repel article 50 at the last minute with all the penalty's that brings??...Leaving a undemoctratic outcome....
Crazy....The country was given the choice and it decided....We cant keep demanding votes until you get the decision you want...Thankfully the Tory's will win with a big majority and it will go through on the best terms we can negotiate as mandated by the British people...
The people have voted without knowing what the consequences will be before, why can't they do it again..?
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That argument is flawed, its nowhere near that easy..If they have a second referendum on the terms and that gets voted against then we are in a world of trouble as a country...Were do you go from there..GO cap back in hand to the EU with a "Please Sir can I have some more" ??? or repel article 50 at the last minute with all the penalty's that brings??...Leaving a undemoctratic outcome....
Crazy....The country was given the choice and it decided....We cant keep demanding votes until you get the decision you want...Thankfully the Tory's will win with a big majority and it will go through on the best terms we can negotiate as mandated by the British people...
The people have voted without knowing what the consequences will be before, why can't they do it again..?
and without knowing the full consequences of remaining ;)
Go back cap in hand saying please sir can we stay? do you think we wouldn't get totally and utterly stitched up
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Thought this was going to be a post about smell around Sprotbrough lol
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Hold on Oslo. You've just spent about 10 posts saying Labour are so far left it's untrue - and now you've just said they're moving to the middle class. Which is it man?????? Try writing down your impressions and thoughts on a piece of paper before you type them up. It'll help you spot the crass ones before they come back to bite yr bum.
Cheers!
Bob
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Do I miss something here ,where does it say that what ever class you are it's set in stone that your left or right wing or just sat on the fence.
I class myself as working class so what will that make me?
What political stance will a upper class person have ?
And what side of the fence will a middle class chap stand on?
As for the Labour Party they for sure don't seem to have a working class backbone anymore at all ,half fvthe fcukers are sending their kids to private schools .
How can you determine anybody's political stance via their class ?
I pointed out that Labour are so far left that if they was in a swimming pool they be going round in a circle, and that they was no longer working class party as they all seem/want to be middle class .
So you are saying that you can't be middle class and left wing at the same time ?
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Oslo
Corbyn is trying to give the Labour party back it's 'working class' backbone as you call it.
That's the main reason he's being vilified.
It's all about claiming the middle ground nowadays no matter how good and fair left wing policies are.
It's very sad IMO.
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He has no chance as nobody is that stupid to belive corbyn if that's is his goal as a leopard can't change its spots .
But Iam confused as fcuk about this class b*llocks to what your political stance is deemed to be
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And my point? Whoever wins the election will not stop the shit that the average person has to put up with every single day. Tories, Labour, Liberal etc..etc... none of them really give a shit about any of us.
Disagree with this. Different governments do make a difference on nearly everything that affects us. Do changes is taxes not affect you? Do hospital waiting times not affect us? Do class sizes not affect us? Do closing of sure-starts affect us? Do changes in council budgets not affect us? Do cuts to the police and fire brigade not affect us?
However, your view is shared by a lot of people, and that is certainly what Governments in power want us to believe; go with the status quo as the opposition won't really make a difference.
On a side note, Owen Jones make a good point today in a live TV interview; who do you think is more likely to lay awake at night worrying about issues affecting working families and the poor (and how to address those issues) - Mrs May or Mr Corbyn? Personally, I think May sleeps like a baby.
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My problem is i don't see any of the parties as worth voting for. For years we have had to listen to the lies peddled only seeing them when they want your vote. Already the prime minister has shown herself to be a liar she isn't for the' just barely managing' she is for the big companies and the rich and well off.
My ideal party would be one that tries to serve the whole electorate rich, middling and poor. I don't want people punished for doing well but i also don't want disabled people getting their benefits stopped if they are genuine. I want a government that is fair with all.
I don't like the labour mindset of sneering at anybody doing well and i don't like the conservatives using the poor as their punchbag. Immigrants and people on benefits according to the papers are ruining the entire country the problem is both are only a small percentage of the country.
I also think the liberals are just too wishy washy, ukip are a one policy party and are almost finished and the greens are just the greens. I will vote i'm almost sure who i will vote for but will decide nearer the time.
How i see it the conservatives as cruel a party as they are have the only leader. Corbyn seems to have a lot of principles and ideas but i think it would scare him witless if he was in power. He's an ideas man somebody who sits at the end of the table who has a million different ideas everyday and he comes up with a good one here and there.
His problem is he is controlled by the unions as the other parties are controlled by their major money people. The whole political system needs a good wash to clean all the dirt, bull..it lies and deceit that has accumulated over the years. The first past the post system is old fashioned like them or not four million votes and not one mp for ukip that can't be right.
If i hear hard brexit or soft brexit again i'm going to chuck the telly through the window!. How i see it when you vote depends on your situation at the minute if you are doing well and making a lot of money then the conservatives will probably be your amour. If you are struggling on benefits and feel like you are getting kicked from pillar to post then even Corbyn is a risk worth taking. If you are middling along you will more than likely plump for the most unlikely prime minister in living memory in Tim Farron and the liberals.
The way i see it going is different from most predictions i actually see labour gaining back some seats lost to the conservatives i see her majority reducing a bit because i see people voting for the party rather than Corbyn. I think already people are tired of the conservative measures already pushed through. They rush things through riding roughshod over democracy.
Leaving the EU is a big win for them they can do what they want with the hours people are allowed to work they can destroy the benefits system that is there to help vulnerable people and they can finish off the nhs. I don't believe that a prime minister would do something as stupid as Cameron did getting rich well off people telling the ordinary man and woman how to vote without knowing they would vote the other way. Am i the only one who saw through that for what it was?-the way to obtain complete power.
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If I hear the beloved Mother Teresa say vote for a strong and stable government again, I'll kick the tele in. That's all she can say. No wonder she won't have a TV debate. If it's not written down for her as at PMQ's or a soundbite she's lost.
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Mussolini had a strong and stable government! :lol: :silly:
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Don't quite understand how not going live on the idiot box with the chance of tripping yourself up is look down on ,and how will this effect how she runs the country if there is a live tv debate or not .
She can tell her party's policy's via the media ,them fcuking yanks have a lot to answer for .
If the yanks started to jump into the river don year after year ,half of you plums would join in sooner or later .
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Although perhaps it should be a requirement to have a public debate, the fact that it's isn't means that she is quite within her rights not to take part in one. And why should she? Why would she risk what is considered to be a massive lead over her opponents for the sake of giving them a chance to seduce the public by no doubt talking fantasy about what they intend to do should they get in?
It would be like a double or quit scenario where Corbyn has everything to gain, and May has everything to lose.
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Surely PR would produce Governments without too much extremism ?
I know they can be unstable producing many many elections for some Countries (Italy) but we would end up with a more middle of the road approach and get fairer representation for so called minority Parties who might get 10% of the votes cast Nationwide but 0% of Seats in Parliament
I know the First past the Post system suits the big 2 Parties and so they wont be like Turkeys and vote for Christmas AND they did manage to "squash" the latest attempt for us to vote for it BUT we as a nation need to keep going going going till it is our way of voting
This is supposed to be a Democratic country as people keep telling those who voted Remain. Scottish Krankie despite losing the Independence Vote (a once a lifetime vote supposedly) will keep going and going till she / they get their way - and of course the Anti Europe people fought over 30 years for an exit from EEC and finally won. If they had lost they would have continued on and on - so I say lets head towards PR and keep on going till we get it (though too late for me I suspect)
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Refusing to take part in a live TV debate is cowardice, a sign of a person running scared of the opposition
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Refusing to take part in a live TV debate is cowardice, a sign of a person running scared of the opposition
That's one way of looking at it. The other is that it's pointless and it is. Many seem to have forgotten JC's new politics, including him. A better use of that time is a q and a I believe and much more grown up. The debates become a slanging match which helps none of us.
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Talking live on tv with a Kay burley type of tv presenter trying to up her/his protocall is sick .
Like I said before it's a yank custom and any idiot out here that falls for it will be turning up at the KMS car park hours well before kick off ,setting up untold bar bee Qs with a boot full of Budweiser having a cold one > shouting ' yeeeee harrr go rovers go '
How can you judge any PM via a tv debate ffs
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My ideal party would be one that tries to serve the whole electorate rich, middling and poor. I don't want people punished for doing well but i also don't want disabled people getting their benefits stopped if they are genuine. I want a government that is fair with all.
I also think the liberals are just too wishy washy
You've just described the party you want then dismissed the one with that exact manifesto as "too wishy washy".
I think I can see what you're trying to get at and it's one of the reasons I joined; to influence from within rather than stand outside moaning.
I've consistently given feedback that I absolutely believe that everybody is born with equal rights regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion or lack thereof etc. etc. That respect for freedom and a broader respect for a freedom of choice and thought is a core principal of liberalism. The flipside to that feedback is that I have just as consistently said that we must be very tough on those who willingly do things to endanger the freedom of others. Criminals, terrorists, fundamentalists and the like are enemies of the libertarian society and have made the decision to give up their rights. They cannot and must not be tolerated. The party needs to make efforts to overcome the common perception that they are all for the rights of the perpetrators whilst forgetting the victims of crime and criminality.
If you don't think a party out there represents you, join the one that is nearest to your ideal and do something about it!
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Talking live on tv with a Kay burley type of tv presenter trying to up her/his protocall is sick .
Like I said before it's a yank custom and any idiot out here that falls for it will be turning up at the KMS car park hours well before kick off ,setting up untold bar bee Qs with a boot full of Budweiser having a cold one > shouting ' yeeeee harrr go rovers go '
How can you judge any PM via a tv debate ffs
By what they say of course. It's not exactly difficult to grasp.
As for it being a Yank custom, I take it you've never heard the word hustings before?
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Refusing to take part in a live TV debate is cowardice, a sign of a person running scared of the opposition
It's someone with nothing to say and afraid of being shown as having nothing to say live on national tv. Her mantra this election is obviously going to be 'strong and stable government', which means sod all. I'd rather have a shambolic government going in the right direction than a strong one going in the opposite direction.
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I don't think there is much to be scared off tbh
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I don't think there is much to be scared off tbh
Plenty to be scared of when you don't know what to say when the opposition parties challenge her policies
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Although perhaps it should be a requirement to have a public debate, the fact that it's isn't means that she is quite within her rights not to take part in one. And why should she? Why would she risk what is considered to be a massive lead over her opponents for the sake of giving them a chance to seduce the public by no doubt talking fantasy about what they intend to do should they get in?
It would be like a double or quit scenario where Corbyn has everything to gain, and May has everything to lose.
If you can't face difficult questions from an invited and vetted tv audience - how on earth are you going to conduct difficult negotiations with European leaders/major world politicians/big business leaders?
If you claim to be so concerned about the country and people's fears - why wont you listed to their issues outside your own handpicked meetings?
Those are the questions Mrs M has to manage - does look a weaker leader not facing questions in a debate - or facing them and not being able to answer them?
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Surely PR would produce Governments without too much extremism ?
I know they can be unstable producing many many elections for some Countries (Italy) but we would end up with a more middle of the road approach and get fairer representation for so called minority Parties who might get 10% of the votes cast Nationwide but 0% of Seats in Parliament
I know the First past the Post system suits the big 2 Parties and so they wont be like Turkeys and vote for Christmas AND they did manage to "squash" the latest attempt for us to vote for it BUT we as a nation need to keep going going going till it is our way of voting
This is supposed to be a Democratic country as people keep telling those who voted Remain. Scottish Krankie despite losing the Independence Vote (a once a lifetime vote supposedly) will keep going and going till she / they get their way - and of course the Anti Europe people fought over 30 years for an exit from EEC and finally won. If they had lost they would have continued on and on - so I say lets head towards PR and keep on going till we get it (though too late for me I suspect)
Didn't we have a referendum about that which hardly anyone bothered to vote in?
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Just because she chooses not to have a TV debate doesn't necessarily mean she can't, it's more likely to mean that she doesn't need to. So I'll ask you again, if she doesn't need to, why should she, After all, she hardly going to convince you to vote for her is she?
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I'd like her to do it just to see if she can think on her feet. So far she's gone on about a strong and stable government and nowt else.
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So would I, Tommy.
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Do I miss something here ,where does it say that what ever class you are it's set in stone that your left or right wing or just sat on the fence.
I class myself as working class so what will that make me?
What political stance will a upper class person have ?
And what side of the fence will a middle class chap stand on?
As for the Labour Party they for sure don't seem to have a working class backbone anymore at all ,half fvthe fcukers are sending their kids to private schools .
How can you determine anybody's political stance via their class ?
I pointed out that Labour are so far left that if they was in a swimming pool they be going round in a circle, and that they was no longer working class party as they all seem/want to be middle class .
So you are saying that you can't be middle class and left wing at the same time ?
Yes you can be middle class and left wing - but what you can't be is a left wing party persuing policies that benefit the middle class.
In the UK left wing and right wing relate to economic policies and standpoints. Broadly speaking the left want a strong state, workers rights, a narrowing of the gap between rich and poor and high taxation for the rich. The right want a small state, individual freedom to earn what you want (for an employer like Mike Ashley to pay his workers below minimum wage whilst making huge profits for himself for instance) and low taxes.
Again broadly speaking: the upper class are the people at the top end of the social scale, the people with the most wealth and the means of gaining ever more wealth. They dont necessarily work as we would define it - but may. The middle class are professionals, shopkeepers, teachers - those with a middle income. The working class are people who work for someone else for a living - or depend on an income provided by someone else.
So you see there, yes you can be middle class and left wing - you are persuing policies that benefit those worse off than you. You can be working class and right wing - that is supporting policies which benefit those better off than you (if that's what you want to do). But what you can't be is a left wing party persuing policies for the middle class because that isn't left wing.
Here it is in a bit more detail
www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2113204
We'll start with the Right: On a social level, the right generally believes that a hierarchy in society is natural and normal. For them, the idea of a class system whereby the richer employ the poorer in a triangle is healthy because everybody benefits and it has historically been the natural order of things.
Their economic policy (generally speaking) complements this, by promoting a form of capitalism which gives more economic freedom to big businesses. This means fewer regulations and lower taxes. They argue that as big businesses grow they create jobs for the working class and gradually everyone gets richer.
The left on the other hand is more keen to reduce the gaps in society between the rich and the poor. They believe society should work together to help everybody, with schemes like the NHS and Benefits. They argue the rich should pay for this through taxes, thus reducing the gap between rich and poor.
To do this, economically, they need to raise taxes. They also prefer to regulate 'the Market', which means distributing the wealth created on the stock market and in banks so that it does not all end up in the pockets of millionaires but some of it goes to the country's problems.
The easiest way to think about it is the idea of 'State vs. Market'. The state is the government, using its power to solve problems that only the government can; healthcare, policing, schools etc. Those departments are the 'public sector'. The market is the capitalist force which creates wealth, such as business transactions and banking. This is the 'private sector'.
The left wants more state control and less market freedom. The right wants less state control and more market freedom.
The centre is a mixture.
So in UK politics, it is generally seen as being the Conservatives on the right, the Lib Dems in the centre, and Labour on the left. However, all of these are central compared to the extreme right of UKIP (Little state control, little sympathy for immigrants and a dislike of Europe) and the extreme left of Communism (State controls everything). We don't have a large communist party in Britain but the Greens are probably 'socialist' which is on the left and is a different system altogether to capitalism.
In the US it's different, there left and right relate to social policies, equal rights, gun control, abortion, immigration and health care, both main parties have similar economic ideas. I dont know about Norway.
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Just because she chooses not to have a TV debate doesn't necessarily mean she can't, it's more likely to mean that she doesn't need to. So I'll ask you again, if she doesn't need to, why should she, After all, she hardly going to convince you to vote for her is she?
Only the result on 8th June will give you the answer to that. I have given you my opinion in my reply above - if you think differently fine.
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The left wing support the working class, the right wing support the upper class. The middle class are, at best, an afterthought to both sides.
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Talking live on tv with a Kay burley type of tv presenter trying to up her/his protocall is sick .
Like I said before it's a yank custom and any idiot out here that falls for it will be turning up at the KMS car park hours well before kick off ,setting up untold bar bee Qs with a boot full of Budweiser having a cold one > shouting ' yeeeee harrr go rovers go '
How can you judge any PM via a tv debate ffs
By what they say of course. It's not exactly difficult to grasp.
As for it being a Yank custom, I take it you've never heard the word hustings before?
I find it predictable that like minded just like you allways dig up a fact .statement,bye law,and
present it by stepping out of your bubble and then back into to said bubble on another fact,statement,bye law sortie.
Tommy top it comes to mind .
Iam not even going to think about tracking around trying to find out WTF the word hustings means ,as some glow worm will have apply time and effort to do so
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If you're referring to me Oslo, I can't be bothered to reply most of the time.
As for class, I've always considered mesen working class despite having a middle class career.
For the record I love your posts, great entertainment, but completely disagree with your views on absolutely everything.
I wholeheartedly support Corbyn. He won't win the election but he'll have a ball fighting it and maybe do better than people think.
Hustings are when candidates share a platform, argue, present their credentials in front of the voters who then vote. They were a feature of elections for hundreds of years.
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Tommy you miss red what I said
Tommy top it > is a person who allways tops whatever you did
1...... if you did a foot long shit > tommy top it did a 2 ft long shit.
2......you held your breath under water for 3 mins > tommy top it did it for 7 mins.
3..... you earn £200 a week > tommy top it says he earns £ 350 a week .
4.....you drank 8 pints last night > tommy top it drank 13 pints.
Fcuk knows what you was rambling on about in those two paragraphs fella ,but I have a fealings you don't either > but tommy top it will
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Ah. Never heard of Tommy top sorry.
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And there I was thinking Tommy might have taught you a useful new word there Oslo!
Oh well :)
Cheers
BobG
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Nowt to be sorry about fella ,as your reaction post had me gob smacked and then in stitches of laughter mate.
Keep up the good work > far too many people have to proof read what they post on a forum thread instead of posting what comes straight into their heads straight away
> > > see how I have set me sen up their for the lurking backlash -> >>
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And there I was thinking Tommy might have taught you a useful new word there Oslo!
Oh well :)
Cheers
BobG
Bob > tommy top it knew what the new word was as he told me so