Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: not on facebook on September 13, 2017, 10:58:05 pm
-
So if you had the choice which one would you plough any of your spare cash into that you have knocking about or under your bed matteress .
I understand that bitcoins have been out longer as the crypto ones are the new kids on the block,hence to say you will get more crypto for your $$$$ since they will be far cheaper.
Iam thinking about pissing a wedge up the wall into one of these two .
anyone one out there gone down same road .
-
I'm sure your hundred quid won't affect the world's trade balance whichever you choose.
-
£100 is fcuk all out here sir,a good barman will get that in tips after one shift in the right pub.
Anyway slack knackers if you had put £100 into bitcoins when they first came out ,you would have many many more £100s now lined up behind it .
-
I've got dough in Bitcoin and Litecoin.
-
Was talking to a young lad the other day about This, he's pulling £150 a week from it.
-
Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency?
I've got bitcoin, ethereum and litecoin.
-
I had a very small balance of Bitcoins dating back to about 4 years ago, I'll be damned if I know how to access them now which is frustrating given they will be worth a fair bit more
-
I had a very small balance of Bitcoins dating back to about 4 years ago, I'll be damned if I know how to access them now which is frustrating given they will be worth a fair bit more
Be worth ten times more probably. I think there's a good chance Bitcoin will get up to $100k a coin eventually. Massively dependent on how China handle the market though.
-
Geoff, Why do you have to attack or mock any and every thing posted by NOF. I realize some of his comments are a bit out there and sometimes controversial. From your past posts, I have formed a picture of you being a very well educated and knowledgeable individual. BUT I find constant sniping extremely juvenile and equally irritating, and from my perspective only serves to show yourself up.
-
I am interested also in this subject. I hear the phrase mining the currency. What is this and how does it work? as the currency exists in a virtual world.
-
I am interested also in this subject. I hear the phrase mining the currency. What is this and how does it work? as the currency exists in a virtual world.
Iam just reading up on it as I know bugger all at the moment as Iam tinkering on the idea of spewing a serious wedge into whatever crypto coin or currency.
From what I pick up litecoin is cheaper to get out of the ground than bitcoin hence it sells you can buy it at a cheaper price .
But all the indications point out that bitcoin has more going for it today.
Iam going into this blind as a bat tbh.
-
I had a very small balance of Bitcoins dating back to about 4 years ago, I'll be damned if I know how to access them now which is frustrating given they will be worth a fair bit more
Is the reason why you can't access you bitcoin stash because you can't recall your password or login details or something
-
Geoff, Why do you have to attack or mock any and every thing posted by NOF. I realize some of his comments are a bit out there and sometimes controversial. From your past posts, I have formed a picture of you being a very well educated and knowledgeable individual. BUT I find constant sniping extremely juvenile and equally irritating, and from my perspective only serves to show yourself up.
BR It don't bother me one bit tbh,let him horse on .infact can't the top table get mr syme
back on board then I will be getting flack from two fronts .the more the better as they say.
At least it saves me having to splash out on crimbo cards .
-
I am interested also in this subject. I hear the phrase mining the currency. What is this and how does it work? as the currency exists in a virtual world.
Iam just reading up on it as I know bugger all at the moment as Iam tinkering on the idea of spewing a serious wedge into whatever crypto coin or currency.
From what I pick up litecoin is cheaper to get out of the ground than bitcoin hence it sells you can buy it at a cheaper price .
But all the indications point out that bitcoin has more going for it today.
Iam going into this blind as a bat tbh.
For anyone wondering they're mined online using people's computers, not actually in a hole. You only get a few pence a day of you were to consider it but your electricity bill would outweigh the bitcoin you get back.
-
I've heard there are companies that can mine it for you for a commission.
-
Knackers the above has done it for me as I got the wrong end of the stick completely .
I have been kicking around if the dam stuff is mined out of the ground where do al the coins go ,and now it turns out its mined online .
Think I will call it a day and leave my wedge in the stocks/ funds that I have paid into since 2011.
-
I've heard there are companies that can mine it for you for a commission.
Do they all have NCB donkey jackets on
-
I've heard there are companies that can mine it for you for a commission.
Do they all have NCB donkey jackets on
Yes, virtual ones 😉
-
Knackers the above has done it for me as I got the wrong end of the stick completely .
I have been kicking around if the dam stuff is mined out of the ground where do al the coins go ,and now it turns out its mined online .
Think I will call it a day and leave my wedge in the stocks/ funds that I have paid into since 2011.
:laugh:
-
They are worth investing in though.
Bitcoin has gone from around £100 in 2013 to around £3,000 now.
Litecoin has gone from around £2 in 2013 to £40/£50 now.
Ethereum has gone from around 50p in 2015 to £250 now. It does fluctuate a bit more though.
Don't worry anyone interested you can buy 0.00001 of a bitcoin or the others.
-
It has been labeled fraud today by respected financial people.
-
If it is so easy to make a good profit why aren't financial advisors and millionaires buying them up?
-
If it is so easy to make a good profit why aren't financial advisors and millionaires buying them up?
I thought that too.
-
If it is so easy to make a good profit why aren't financial advisors and millionaires buying them up?
I could be way off the mark here but I will have a uneducated stab .
Maybe it's because bitcoin has the possibllty to put a spanner into the works of how the banking system was built on and cause havoc after a certian point.
This will also tie in with so called respected financial advisors claiming bitcoin etc etc to be labeled fraud .
If bitcoin is really really successfull in whatever amount of years ,it could well change the whole banking structure and how we spend are currency.
I thought that too.
-
It has been labeled fraud today by respected financial people.
CEO of bank labels something they don't have any control over as a fraud shock.
-
If it is so easy to make a good profit why aren't financial advisors and millionaires buying them up?
Because unlike real currencies which are backed up by gold, virtual currencies worth are based on nothing more than peoples' confidence in them, which strikes me as very South Sea Bubble. They're all very well to make money out of if you time it right and get out before they disappear down the plughole.
https://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21599053-chronic-deflation-may-keep-bitcoin-displacing-its-fiat-rivals-money
-
It has been labeled fraud today by respected financial people.
CEO of bank labels something they don't have any control over as a fraud shock.
That's the exact way I read it
-
It has been labeled fraud today by respected financial people.
CEO of bank labels something they don't have any control over as a fraud shock.
That's the exact way I read it
Why? Banks don't control hard currencies either.
-
It has been labeled fraud today by respected financial people.
CEO of bank labels something they don't have any control over as a fraud shock.
That's the exact way I read it
If you fancy some light reading, investigate blockchains. This is the technology that underpins it all, and makes it completely fraud proof. This is probably also why the banks are against it, no chance to syphon a bit off for themselves.
-
It has been labeled fraud today by respected financial people.
CEO of bank labels something they don't have any control over as a fraud shock.
That's the exact way I read it
If you fancy some light reading, investigate blockchains. This is the technology that underpins it all, and makes it completely fraud proof. This is probably also why the banks are against it, no chance to syphon a bit off for themselves.
I was going to write a big post about this earlier but I get bored after a couple of sentences. You've hit the nail on the head though there Rob, the blockchain is the genius behind all this, it will be used for all sorts of things in the future.
-
If it is so easy to make a good profit why aren't financial advisors and millionaires buying them up?
They are. JP Morgan just bought loads, that's just one example.
-
Maybe I'm just old fashioned but if it was so good I would have thought that rich people, George Soros etc. would pile in and take an easy profit quickly.
-
How do you know they haven't?
-
I don't.🙂
-
Bitcoin reached $10K this week. :)
-
For those that like to know a bit more;
https://is.gd/yUOb1j
Like others have said, the blockchain technology of the distributed ledger has many potential applications.
The major change it makes possible is "disintermediation", where middle men who take a cut for services rendered are no longer necessary. Think Banks making a wedge on currency transfers across borders, for example.
Early days of the revolution, and I bet what become the most common uses are yet to emerge.
-
It has been labeled fraud today by respected financial people.
CEO of bank labels something they don't have any control over as a fraud shock.
That's the exact way I read it
If you fancy some light reading, investigate blockchains. This is the technology that underpins it all, and makes it completely fraud proof. This is probably also why the banks are against it, no chance to syphon a bit off for themselves.
Just had a lovely run on ONL on blockchain..Quadrupled my investment in 6 weeks... lovely
-
Well I have just read through this thread and it’s links and I have one question........where can I get the book “Bitcoin and Blockchain for Dummies?” ;)
-
Under the link I gave above, there is a graphic explaining Blockchain down at the bottom of the page.
Bit more here, with the through links to follow;
https://is.gd/zIys5l
I think it is probably for those who know what they are doing, rather than the general public.
-
Think I fall into the latter category. Despite reading quite a bit on this I still can’t really see the benefits to the ordinary person in the Street.
-
Think I fall into the latter category. Despite reading quite a bit on this I still can’t really see the benefits to the ordinary person in the Street.
I put in just £20 into Bitcoin in June, I now have £80.
-
Think I fall into the latter category. Despite reading quite a bit on this I still can’t really see the benefits to the ordinary person in the Street.
I put in just £20 into Bitcoin in June, I now have £80.
So have you bought them to spend and if so how what can you spend them on at present or have you bought as an investment to increase in value in which case how do you time getting out?
-
You can spend them online, not really sure what on other than some shadier stuff (usenet, etc). As for timing your get out, it's only like gambling on share prices.
-
Yeah pretty much what RedJ said. I'm not thinking about getting put at the moment though as it looks like it'll only be heading further up.
-
South Sea Bubble
-
South Sea Bubble
Dutch tulip bulbs as well.
-
I truly hope that those of you who were buying into this bubble in November and December got out at the upper end of the market.
Classic bubble, built on nothing but the mad dash to join in.
-
I truly hope that those of you who were buying into this bubble in November and December got out at the upper end of the market.
Classic bubble, built on nothing but the mad dash to join in.
Nope. The dip was expected and its expected by the end of this year it'll be even stronger looking. HODL.
-
DO. That’s been said of EVERY bubble in history b
-
OK we'll see in a few months ;)
-
DO. That’s been said of EVERY bubble in history b
Usually by people desperate for it to be the truth.
-
I truly hope that those of you who were buying into this bubble in November and December got out at the upper end of the market.
Classic bubble, built on nothing but the mad dash to join in.
Nope. The dip was expected and its expected by the end of this year it'll be even stronger looking. HODL.
So losing more than half it's value in about a month is - to you - just 'a dip'? How much is your £80 worth now?
-
DO
I’m not interested in who’s right and wrong in a year’s time. I’ve just seen people played on these bubbles too many times.
Look at how this bubble has developed.
https://mobile.twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/959802675457134592/photo/1
And how the dot com bubble developed 18 years back.
https://mobile.twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/959803029938728960/photo/1
They both share a theme. People convinced that there was a game-changing technology that could not fail. But Bitcoin is built on piss and wind, just like Pets.com was back in 2000. A few smart people will have made a phenomenal killing on Bitcoin. But those who got in in Oct-Dec last year are going to get fleeced if they haven’t got out by now, or the next few weeks.
-
I truly hope that those of you who were buying into this bubble in November and December got out at the upper end of the market.
Classic bubble, built on nothing but the mad dash to join in.
Nope. The dip was expected and its expected by the end of this year it'll be even stronger looking. HODL.
So if the “dip” was expected, you will have sold out at the top of the market then re-bought in the dip ready for the meteoric rise?
Am I right?
-
I suppose you were expecting today’s “dip” too.
When does a “dip” become a “slide”?
DODL
-
It’s seems like there is a world wide price correction going on in all the global markets. Anyone who bought at inflated prices in such a voulotile market deserves to do their money. I’m sure it will go back up, all about buying at the right times though. You should never buy anything when everyone else is buying it, you’ll never get any value. Buy when everyone else is desperate to sell.
-
It’s seems like there is a world wide price correction going on in all the global markets. Anyone who bought at inflated prices in such a voulotile market deserves to do their money. I’m sure it will go back up, all about buying at the right times though. You should never buy anything when everyone else is buying it, you’ll never get any value. Buy when everyone else is desperate to sell.
I might agree with that if - IF - there was anything supporting the value of these other than people's blind faith in it. Once that's gone, it'll never get it back.
-
Phases of an asset price bubble.
(http://financeandcareer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/psychology-of-asset-bubbles.jpg)
It’s happened time after time. This one is working out precisely to script. The only question is whether there was any underlying trend growth for the price to revert back to, and if so, how low that level is. I suspect it will be some way below $1000.
-
I got involved at very reasonable prices. My mates started jumping on the band wagon at stupid prices, around the $14k+ mark. I told them that a reasonsble entry price was around $6500. They couldn’t see what was happening and didn’t listen. It’s dropped down to the 200 day moving average and bounced off I think, not had the charts up to be honest because that gives me a taste for trading again and that just takes over my life with the amount of work I put into it.
-
Gaz
I’m not sure a 200 day moving average matters at all in an asset bubble. The past 50-100 days have had ridiculously over-inflated prices and that will massively skew the 200 day average.
The only thing that matters inbthe medium term (and that means a month or two given how rapidly this bubble developed) is the underlying true value. I’ve not seen anything that convinced me that the true value is anything higher than it was for the 3 years or so before the bubble started to inflate last Spring. That would indicate a value of a few hundred dollars. Nothing’s changed in the fundamentals since then to justify anything higher.
-
Possibly, the answers are usually in the candlesticks though. Those Japanese rice traders never went far wrong!
50/200 day MA, Fibonacci ratios and Bollinger Bands were my key indicators.
The fact that governments around the world are doing all they can to halt its progress I find interesting. Are they doing it because they see it as a threat to their central banking system? Although I think at the moment “crypto currency” is a misnomer, it’s more a crypto commodity, I do think in theory it could be a blueprint for a world wide currency.
-
They're probably trying to halt its progress because people use it for shady stuff on the deep/dark web.
-
Maybe they're just trying to protect people from themselves.
-
Gaz
I’ve heard that line about how Bitcoin could revolutionise the concept of currency. Maybe I’m too thick to understand but I just don’t get it.
Currency has two purposes.
1) To act as a means of exchange that’s better and more controlled than barter.
2) To act as a store of value - if you have £10 in your wallet on Monday and don’t spend it for a week, you know you have the wealth to buy £10 of stuff on Friday.
Both require a certain stability in the value of the currency. If a currency is massively appreciating in value, there’s no way I’m buying anything today because if I hold onto it until tomorrow, I’ll be able to buy twice as much stuff. And vice versa when it’s collapsing in value. I can’t spend the bleeding stuff fast enough.
So, at the moment Bitcoin stupendously fails that test. In the past 2 months it’s gone up in value 20 fold then lost 75% of that peak value. How can you use it as a means of exchange or a sensible store of wealth?
But let’s assume it settles down. Then you can use it as a means of exchange.
What about the store of wealth? What gives Bitcoin it’s inherent value? What stops it being worthless?
Traditional currencies have value because they are backed by the balance sheet and the policies of the relevant national central bank. In simple terms, the central bank holds assets that balance the currency in circulation. In theory, you could take a pound coin to the Bank of England and ask for a pound’s worth of, say, Govt bonds which the BoE holds. And generally, Govt bonds are the safest stores of value in the world. Because if, say, the UK collapsed to the point where its Govt can’t honour its debts, you’re in a world where every bit of certainty has collapsed.
So, as long as the central bank’s balance sheet is ok, there are strong assets underpinning the value of the currency. Of course, it’s possible that Govts might default on their bonds in which case the currency is, literally, worthless. But most currencies in most countries in most times have this buttressing support of their Govt and central bank. It’s what gives confidence to people to hold currency as a store of value.
Bitcoin. What on Earth underpins Bitcoin’s value? Nothing whatsoever. Literally, nothing. There is no organisation that you can go to with a Bitcoin and say, “I’m relying on you to ensure that one Bitcoin will always be backedby a really, really stable asset.”
Bitcoin’s value exists because people think it’s worth something. But if people stop thinking it is worth something, there is literally nothing to prevent it from being worthless.
So no, I don’t see how in practice it can ever be a sensible currency.
-
Bitcoin and stability.
From Sunday morning to Tuesday morning, the price of Bitcoin fell by over a third. From Tuesday morning to today, it's up by over 40%.
That is not a currency. No currency could possible be used if you're unable to guess its worth form one hour to the next. And violent oscillations like that also show that the market is not working correctly in terms of properly assessing the true worth of Bitcoin. The oscillations are being driven by a manic desire to get in on the upswing or get out on the downswing.
-
Bitcoin and stability.
From Sunday morning to Tuesday morning, the price of Bitcoin fell by over a third. From Tuesday morning to today, it's up by over 40%.
That is not a currency. No currency could possible be used if you're unable to guess its worth form one hour to the next. And violent oscillations like that also show that the market is not working correctly in terms of properly assessing the true worth of Bitcoin. The oscillations are being driven by a manic desire to get in on the upswing or get out on the downswing.
I’m sure the thinking is that as liquidity and the number of transactions increase, so will stability. That’s a long way off though.
-
Could do Gaz. Still the issue about what underpins the value of Bitcoin. As far as I can see, it’s nowt but trust of users. That can evaporate in a flash.
-
We are lucky that we live in a country where the currency is pretty stable, and is underlined by the Bank of England hence your trust in the system. I’m sure if you spoke to a Venezuelan about central banking system and the real value of conventional currency, they may think differently.
-
Just because the Venezuelan currency has undergone inflation doesn't mean it's less stable that Bitcoin - there are more than one reasons for inflation. Even the Venezuelan currency is backed by the country's gold reserves, such as they are - what does Bitcoin have? Anything at all?
-
Aye, there are countries which have wildly unstable currencies. But few of them these days. Central banks do know how to stabilise and underpin currencies as long as there is the political will.
There is another issue with Bitcoin, which was pushed very hard by aficionados when it first started. Bitcoin effectively allows you to opt out of the government tax collection process.
Sounds wonderful, but if that was the way that all transactions were made, then the current model of collective services paid for by tax collapses. That’s one of the reasons why Bitcoin has been so popular among libertarians.
https://pando.com/2013/04/17/why-libertarians-and-gold-hoarders-love-bitcoins/
Personally, I’ve always thought that paying tax in large amounts and having commensurate high quality collective services is the mark of an advanced, civilised society. Look at the list here. Apart from a few oil states, there aren’t many advanced countries with very low taxes and very few poor countries with high taxes. Would you rather live in Chad or Sweden?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
Someone asked why developed states’ Governments have been so anti-Bitcoin. There’s a good answer up above. If Bitcoin did take off and lead to a collapse in tax revenue, that’s a world that not many of us would want to live in.
-
I’ve just seen Bitcoin being accepted as a payment method on a retail site for the first time. Will this soon become the norm?
-
Here’s a bit of a problem with the Bitcoin model.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43030677
Figures I’ve seen indicate that Bitcoin mining uses up the same amount of electricity as the entire nation of Singapore. About 0.25% of all the world’s electricity output.
Put it another way. Bitcoin mining currently uses up the equivalent of all the output of Eggborough and Drax running at full power, 24 hours a day. And the consumption has trebled in the past 4 months.
-
It needs to be regulated,it is the safe haven for the gangsters,pimps, Drug Cartels and terrorists interested in laundering money and also funding illegal activity.
-
It needs to be regulated,it is the safe haven for the gangsters,pimps, Drug Cartels and terrorists interested in laundering money and also funding illegal activity.
Yeah, they should leave that to the bankers.
-
It needs to be regulated,it is the safe haven for the gangsters,pimps, Drug Cartels and terrorists interested in laundering money and also funding illegal activity.
Yeah, they should leave that to the bankers.
Yeah, the bankers that are subject to all sorts of anti-moneylaundering legislation that the cryptocurrencies aren't - which is why cryptocurrencies are the criminals and terrorists first choice of hiding what they're doing. But that's OK as long as the bankers get pissed on, isn't it?
-
which bitcoin wallet does everyone use?
-
which bitcoin wallet does everyone use?
Bread wallet I use.
-
I truly hope that those of you who were buying into this bubble in November and December got out at the upper end of the market.
Classic bubble, built on nothing but the mad dash to join in.
The price rise is because the blockchain technology is actually unbelievable and can add more value to society and have lower costs than traditional monetary systems. It will go up even further.
Did you see JP Morgan leaked cyrcytpocurrency report?
-
I see the Icelandic Government has kicked off, Bitcoin miners have been setting up production facilities in Iceland where George thermal power sources mean relatively cheap Electricity. There are currently so many that they are using 40% more power than the entire human population of 340,000. The Icelandic Goverment is looking to bring in regulation as the production units bring little in the way of jobs or revenue to the country as a whole.
-
I see the Icelandic Government has kicked off, Bitcoin miners have been stting up production facilities in Iceland where ge thermal power sources mean relatively cheap Electricity. There are currently so many that they are using 40% more power than the entire human population of 340,000. The Icelandic Goverment is looking to bring in regulation as the production units bring little in the way of jobs or revenue to the country as a whole.
This is a problem for crypto especially as it becomes more mainstream, where will the miners go? China have already started kicking them out also
-
Well aye.
How can a currency have any underpinning value without some “work” being done to give it that value? You can’t conjure value out of thin air.
It’s effort and work that gives the basic value to a currency. If every person in Ruritania lies in bed thrapping off all day, the Ruritatian Real won’t be worth much.
Back to Bitcoin. You could argue that it has a basic value if you have to “invest” $5000 of electricity to mine each Bitcoin. But that assumes that people are prepared to see that as a real investment with a real value behind it. The moment people stop trusting Bitcoin as a currency, it is worthless and all that electricity expenditure is worthless.
-
Also, if they don't submit to anti-laundering controls I can eventually see countries just outlawing any transactions in cryptocurrencies altogether.