Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Filo on November 13, 2017, 08:19:45 pm
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Two clear as day handball pens denied for Sweden, I bet the Northern Irish are spitting feathers!
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Refs must be related .
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Not seen decisions that poor since the sending off was overturned other week
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Two clear as day handball pens denied for Sweden, I bet the Northern Irish are spitting feathers!
They were the type of Penalties we dont seem to get either !
Thought Ref was doing well till the first Pen and now he has "gone off" big time
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I don't think the ref has got the bottle to give anything against Italy in the San Siro
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Well thats one of the Heaveyweights not going to the World Cup Finals 😂😂😂😂😂
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A World Cup without Italy is like a cone with no ice cream! 🇮🇹😱
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No Holland either. No USA and no Chile.
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A shoe 👠 in for Engerland then. 💩💩
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Well thats one of the Heaveyweights not going to the World Cup Finals 😂😂😂😂😂
This is the worst Italian team in over half a century and it's been said widely for a couple of years.
Conte got the best out of the team at Euro 2016 and turned them from a bunch of misfits into a cohesive unit that were difficult to break down and hard to play against - which showed in results in that tournament (beating Spain, Belgium, drawing with Germany).
That success of building a team far better than the sum of its parts, was purely down to Conte's tactics, style and management.
There's reasons, or excuses as it would be better put, as to why this catastrophic failure has now happened.
Being drawn with Spain in the same qualifying group for the World Cup was unfortunate. One of the two was always going to end up in the play-offs, and even though Italy beat Spain with a tactical masterclass at Euro 2016, Spain are still the better of the two teams - and so it proved.
Being drawn with Sweden in the play-offs was also bad luck as it was probably the toughest opponents that they realistically could have got.
That's the bad luck element.
The truth is this team is desperately weak and contains too many cowards and Ventura's tactics have also been appalling at times throughout qualifying. Being negative in Spain and playing defensive 'contain the opposition' football at 3-0 down was one thing; his decision to leave Insigne on the bench was his 'umbrella' moment.
He'll never manage a club in Italy again as he's made a mockery of the country.
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Italian football has been on the decline for quite a while. Conte's ability was the outlier in their recent tournament runs.
This should put it into perspective for England a little bit (along with the Dutch), but I bet it doesn't.
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No. I don't think it should put our situation into context. Italy have been struggling for 4-6 years. We've been shite for most of the past quarter century.
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No. I don't think it should put our situation into context. Italy have been struggling for 4-6 years. We've been shite for most of the past quarter century.
Yet we've still qualified for the World Cup every time for the past six tournaments spanning most of that quarter century, something Italy and Netherlands can't say. So my point stands and is perhaps enhanced by what you've said there BST.
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My grouse with England hasn't usually been with qualifying. We're generally, reasonably competent flat-track bullies.
But that's not really much of a claim if you aspire to be a real contender. And that's where we collapse. Pretty much every time we come into contact with top-10 global sides. Or even top-25/30 sides over the past few years.
Tell you what. I'd take Italy and Netherlands' record at major tournaments these past 25 years over ours, any day. And yes, they've failed to qualify from far tougher groups than ours. But I suspect we'll not progress very much further than they managed. Hope I'm wrong but I don't hope that much. It's tough to keep hoping when you see your side failing on a biennial basis.
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My grouse with England hasn't usually been with qualifying. We're generally, reasonably competent flat-track bullies.
But that's not really much of a claim if you aspire to be a real contender. And that's where we collapse. Pretty much every time we come into contact with top-10 global sides. Or even top-25/30 sides over the past few years.
Tell you what. I'd take Italy and Netherlands' record at major tournaments these past 25 years over ours, any day. And yes, they've failed to qualify from far tougher groups than ours. But I suspect we'll not progress very much further than they managed. Hope I'm wrong but I don't hope that much. It's tough to keep hoping when you see your side failing on a biennial basis.
I think when we end up in another tough qualifying group, we might struggle.
We've been fortunate to not get any high quality opponents in our qualifying groups for a good few years.
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Netherlands group may have been tougher but they still got beat by teams like Bulgaria,
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My grouse with England hasn't usually been with qualifying. We're generally, reasonably competent flat-track bullies.
But that's not really much of a claim if you aspire to be a real contender. And that's where we collapse. Pretty much every time we come into contact with top-10 global sides. Or even top-25/30 sides over the past few years.
Tell you what. I'd take Italy and Netherlands' record at major tournaments these past 25 years over ours, any day. And yes, they've failed to qualify from far tougher groups than ours. But I suspect we'll not progress very much further than they managed. Hope I'm wrong but I don't hope that much. It's tough to keep hoping when you see your side failing on a biennial basis.
If you apply the same thoughts to lower league football Billy you would never watch the Rovers though.
I stopped getting too upset over England after South Africa, that was a bridge too far for me. Losing to Iceland while in Rhodes surrounded by Russians and Ukranians laughing wasn't too clever though.
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My grouse with England hasn't usually been with qualifying. We're generally, reasonably competent flat-track bullies.
But that's not really much of a claim if you aspire to be a real contender. And that's where we collapse. Pretty much every time we come into contact with top-10 global sides. Or even top-25/30 sides over the past few years.
Tell you what. I'd take Italy and Netherlands' record at major tournaments these past 25 years over ours, any day. And yes, they've failed to qualify from far tougher groups than ours. But I suspect we'll not progress very much further than they managed. Hope I'm wrong but I don't hope that much. It's tough to keep hoping when you see your side failing on a biennial basis.
I think when we end up in another tough qualifying group, we might struggle.
We've been fortunate to not get any high quality opponents in our qualifying groups for a good few years.
And that's all about to change;
http://www.uefa.com/uefanationsleague/news/newsid=2507364.html#/
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It's about time we adopted a different attitude and go with the intention of winning the tournament but if we get beat along the way so what.
We hit the lowest of the low when we froze, ironically against Iceland. As soon as we get to a mindset of thinking it's no disgrace to lose, we might actually play with more freedom.
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until england get a proper manager i dont see much changing.hjs reason for leaving wiltshire was because he wasnt in the first team at Arsenal.then he picks the likes of origi,delph and players what are truly out of their depths at international level.and as a point of iinterest how many of the current squd would get into the arsenal team.And a final point in a world cup season matches against Germany and Brazil our top players cry off with so called injuries.Bet they are all fit for saturday
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crikey Acko has Origi changed nationality?
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Did anyone think it was deja vu ? For some reason I wanted Sweden to win (irrational maybe) and they just invited pressure upon themselves by giving the ball away all the game
Defending was inspired and a bit fortunate at times and I was on the edge of my seat especially in the second half. As I do when watching Rovers in similar positions I kept thinking the opposition would do it finally. Could not believe it turned into a nail biter. I bet Swedish fans were beside themselves with anguish
What was the game we played recently and won 1-0 and BB I think said on here that was the longest last 85 minutes ever !
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sorry ravenrover i ment Solanki
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England are at least getting to these tournaments. It may seem a cakewalk against inferior nations but we always get the job done, five straight qualifying campaigns now without a worry.
I say it again, this is far better than Italy and Netherlands who would give anything to be in our position. The Dutch lost to Bulgaria in qualifying and came 3rd in their group. Italy were held at home by Macedonia for crying out loud! This is what I mean by perspective.
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England are at least getting to these tournaments. It may seem a cakewalk against inferior nations but we always get the job done, five straight qualifying campaigns now without a worry.
I say it again, this is far better than Italy and Netherlands who would give anything to be in our position. The Dutch lost to Bulgaria in qualifying and came 3rd in their group. Italy were held at home by Macedonia for crying out loud! This is what I mean by perspective.
I don't think our qualifying record is to be sniffed at, but I disagree with your fundamental point. They would give anything to be in our position now, of course, as we are heading to the WC and they are not. However, if someone offered me the possibility of foregoing this World Cup, but guaranteeing a win within the next 10 years and a couple of runners up spots in the Euros (Italy's record over the last 10 years) or a semi finals and a final appearance at the following 2 World Cups I would snap their hand off.
Italy were held at home to Macedonia and knocked out in the play-offs this time but have been to 3 major finals in 10 years, including winning the biggest of all. We have come through each qualifying round (well, not 2008) and scraped the quarters twice. Not sure how you can argue that they'd rather be in our position.
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You're right of course if we look backwards, but I'm talking about the present and future. We are better set up to succeed in future tournaments at this moment in time than either of those nations. Obviously I wish we'd been to a major final (or even semi final) in the time that Italy have won the World Cup and the Dutch got to the final, but I'm talking about going forward. People moan about Southgate but he's doing a decent job so far in my opinion, and I've more faith in us next summer than I ever did with Hodgson in charge.
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I'd just like us to win a knock out game so it gives me a reason to get absolutely plastered and bounce around as if we'd have a chance of winning the thing.
Not asking for much.
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The thing is with Southgate is he's not bowing to media pressure to play who they want to play, lots of fresh enthusiasm coming through at the moment
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It's like Groundhog Day lads.
Every two years, the same reasons for optimism are trotted out...
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It's like Groundhog Day lads.
Every two years, the same reasons for optimism are trotted out...
Almost as predictable as your two year cycle of reminding us what a middling record we have and how few world class players we've produced ;)
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I've stopped following England, they're not successful enough for my liking. I just support Donny Rovers now!
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What is the point of England going to the finals after playing dour, boring, frightened football scraping through preliminaries against third and fourth rate opposition just to be a dull, boring embarrassment when they come up against real teams. Complete waste of time.
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It's a long.time since I felt even slightly nationalistic at the euros or world cup. Seeing giants fall, miserably, and the fresh enthusiasm of minnows triumph or fail, that's the beauty of these competitions.
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You've got it Nick. And I've not been wrong yet have I?
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Tournaments are a farce anyway. You need plenty of luck to win them. The format isn’t designed to find the best team.
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Amazing how lucky those Germans are though eh?
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Aye. And how unlucky we have been.
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What is the point of England going to the finals after playing dour, boring, frightened football scraping through preliminaries against third and fourth rate opposition just to be a dull, boring embarrassment when they come up against real teams. Complete waste of time.
Might a well just give the trophy to the Germans now then and save a lot of money.
Probably give Blackburn and Wigan the automatic promotion places for L1 this year while we are at it and not bother anyone to challenge them eh.
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Tournaments are a farce anyway. You need plenty of luck to win them. The format isn’t designed to find the best team.
The whole fun and excitement of a tournement is that it engages luck, form, prep, desire, confidence, risk, team spirit, embracing the physical and cultural football "terroir" of the host country, and so on. The cream will still tend to rise. But what you might call luck is more than the throw of the dice, it involves attitude and "riding the wave". That's something that England for example haven't pulled off for a long time, and I doubt will do this time round, but if they do it could be exciting.
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I think Greece are possibly the best team to have won a tournament in recent years.
Their tactics were entirely negative; a totally defensive anti-football style purely designed to stifle the opposition, slow the game and pinch something off half chances, but it worked and they were unbreakable and unspectacular in the same breath.
Other countries have won it through having talented players who could sometimes turn a game on its head in one single moment.
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Usually, a team that is unambiguously in the top 3-4 in a tournament on overall performances is the one that goes on to win it. That's been the case in every World Cup I can think of. Yes, there's luck - France should probably have won in 82, although Italy were glorious when they hit form. Brazil in 78 if the Peruvian Govt hadn't offered to throw the match with Argentina in return for having a dozen political prisoners sent home to be tortured. Netherlands in 74 if they'd not tried ducking about in the final. Maybe Germany in 06, although in that semi-final, Italy were magnificent. Apart from that, I can't think of a tournament in my lifetime where the very best side in the competition hasn't won it.
So luck doesn't really play that much of a part.
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I think England grew into being the best team at Italia 90 after a dodgy beginning, we were also the best team at Euro 96.
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Italia 90?
Best team?
We drew against Ireland and Holland and labouredto beat Egypt.
We ground out a result against Belgium.
We beat Cameroon courtesy of two penalties. One of which was questionable.
We rose to the occasion against West Germany for sure. But you can't truly say we were the best team in the tournament. West Germany had been consistently far stronger than us. Italy (with home advantage) were at least as good as us. Argentina, similarly. I'd say we were where we finished. 4th best.
Euro 96.
Again. Plodding in the qualifiers bar that gem of a performance against Holland.
Nothing special against Spain.
A decent showing in the semi, but we weren't the clearly better side. You might just about make a case that we were the best side. But then we did have home advantage. And we couldn't make that work for us.
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I still don't know how Portugal managed to win Euro 2016.
They didn't win a single group game, finishing 3rd with 3 draws, and only ended up winning 1 game in normal time, the semi-final against Wales.
It was the most underwhelming winner of an international tournament I've seen.
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Looking at the England squad it seems nowadays that if you simply exist on the periphery of a Premier League squad then you're in!
Are we really this desperate? I suppose we are.
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I still don't know how Portugal managed to win Euro 2016.
Ronaldo.
A world class player that turned a totally average team and made them into something special.
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Italia 90?
Best team?
We drew against Ireland and Holland and labouredto beat Egypt.
We ground out a result against Belgium.
We beat Cameroon courtesy of two penalties. One of which was questionable.
We rose to the occasion against West Germany for sure. But you can't truly say we were the best team in the tournament. West Germany had been consistently far stronger than us. Italy (with home advantage) were at least as good as us. Argentina, similarly. I'd say we were where we finished. 4th best.
Euro 96.
Again. Plodding in the qualifiers bar that gem of a performance against Holland.
Nothing special against Spain.
A decent showing in the semi, but we weren't the clearly better side. You might just about make a case that we were the best side. But then we did have home advantage. And we couldn't make that work for us.
Thanks for correcting my viewpoint, obviously not entitled to an opinion.
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Not at all mate. I was just giving my own view.