Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: selby on November 19, 2017, 08:33:23 am
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Another tough away game across the border,perhaps made harder with their result against Bradford yesterday.
They will be looking to get back to winning ways as soon as possible to carry on with their promotion push,and we will probably have to be at our best to carry on our little unbeaten run.
Will we stay with our one up front formation?
Will Coppinger play two games in four days?
Will our very good away support be at Wigan in numbers?
If Coppinger does not play who will come into the side?
If we go unbeaten will our support still think the game turgid and insipid (most probably)?
Are the Wigan pies really the best sold at football grounds?
All questions to discuss and many more,What do you think?
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TBH selby, I don’t mind us setting up to be hard to beat, especially away at places like Wigan.
Another away point would be a good return on two tough games.
DF seems to have learned from some of his mistakes and is apparently happy to be playing with a more cautious approach against the better teams.
We have had some good results against Wigan in recent seasons and with them having lost at home on Saturday the pressure will be more on them than us, which could work in our favour.
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Some old foes in their team line up Morsey,Roberts and the manager Cooke from hard games against Chesterfield.
Coppinger,if he plays owes Morsey one for a terrible tackle at Chesterfield that if memory serves cost Copps a few weeks out injured.
Roberts was avery good player at this level but has not pulled any trees up since leaving Chesterfield,and the Wigan crowd do not rate their goalkeeper that much.
Although they seem have been everyones favourite team to storm the division at the start of the season,other teams including Shrewsbury seem to have other ideas,and the poition of favourites seems to be lying heavy on their shoulders.The fact that I was told at the Rotherham game they have offered £400k for the Ipswich centre forward playing at Rotherham says they are not the finished article,and if we play well we could come away with a result. Lets hope so.
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Some old foes in their team line up Morsey,Roberts and the manager Cooke from hard games against Chesterfield.
Coppinger,if he plays owes Morsey one for a terrible tackle at Chesterfield that if memory serves cost Copps a few weeks out injured.
Yes after about 9 minutes wasn't it ? We were looking "good" and they knew where the danger was coming from
Copps was out as you say for weeks
Anyway back to Wigan ...
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I think whiteman will come in for copps, and it wouldn't surprise me if he starts Mason instead of either of the wing backs..... a point will be a great result for us. If we a can get an early goal, they will start to feel the pressure, and we can achieve a positive result... we don't have a bad record their either.... roll on Tuesday.
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Firstly let me say that I hope Coppinger at least starts the game,as an oldie myself I think that people think too much about players ages, and their ability to play two matches close together in this country. I dont think it is so important in other countries such as Italy,and older players are picked for what they can bring to the team if they are match fit.
But if he is not picked I would still stick with Marquis as the loan striker if thats how it is labeled.Whiteman would I think be thought of as the logical replacement by most supporters and I would not argue with that,but I would be very tempted to try Mandeville in a direct swop and into the role that Coppinger plays.
I think that it could result in him finding his best position,he is the a player with the ability and close control to beat a marker,and can execute and see a pass.When he has played in the first team he has mostly played as a second striker,but in the Cheka Trade,and in the development games I have watched he has been at his best when playing slightly behind a striker in the Coppinger role,and has still had the ability to score and be a threat in front of goal,as against Scunthorpe in the C.T.
Having said all that,as I said if Copps is up for it, and the rest are fit, I would make no changes from the team that started at Fleetwood. All hypothetical,But what do you think?
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This is one of those games where I fear we could get tonked.
However, if we go there and manage to produce one of our better displays, we could just as easily pinch a cheeky 1-0 win or something.
I don't expect us to win.
If we get a draw, I'd very happy.
If we got a win then I'd be chuffing delighted.
Whatever happens at Wigan, I sincerely hope we can follow it up with an impressive performance (and preferably a win) against MK Dons, otherwise it'll be Groundhog Day, Part 325 of our season so far.
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MY home game hoorah, apart from again its not on a Saturday.
Nobody has tonked us and dont think they will here,Blackburn away anyone?
1-1 draw cant wait!
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Firstly let me say that I hope Coppinger at least starts the game,as an oldie myself I think that people think too much about players ages, and their ability to play two matches close together in this country. I dont think it is so important in other countries such as Italy,and older players are picked for what they can bring to the team if they are match fit.
But if he is not picked I would still stick with Marquis as the loan striker if thats how it is labeled.Whiteman would I think be thought of as the logical replacement by most supporters and I would not argue with that,but I would be very tempted to try Mandeville in a direct swop and into the role that Coppinger plays.
I think that it could result in him finding his best position,he is the a player with the ability and close control to beat a marker,and can execute and see a pass.When he has played in the first team he has mostly played as a second striker,but in the Cheka Trade,and in the development games I have watched he has been at his best when playing slightly behind a striker in the Coppinger role,and has still had the ability to score and be a threat in front of goal,as against Scunthorpe in the C.T.
Having said all that,as I said if Copps is up for it, and the rest are fit, I would make no changes from the team that started at Fleetwood. All hypothetical,But what do you think?
Unless Copps is injured I hope and expect that he will start the game.
It is regularly reported that he is right up there as one of the fittest members of the squad.
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My biggest concern is that they lost at home yesterday so will be smarting from that.
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My biggest concern is that they lost at home yesterday so will be smarting from that.
Yep, agreed but it also puts pressure on them to win.
A draw only gives them one point from six in two home games, a defeat would be a total disaster for them.
If we have a good start to the game it could make it a tough night for Wigan.
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I've backed us to lose in the PvO but it would be very Rovers-ish if we went and won.
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I fancy May to return after to the bench and come on to score in a 2-1 win!
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DonnyBaz, thats another talking point,if we carry on with our present one up front,Where do you see Alfie getting in the team? or will he become a bit part player,used as a sub as Whiteman and Mandeville?
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It wouldn't be too difficult to switch from 3-4-2-1 to 3-5-2. We would probably do it if chasing a game.
My feeling is we will be more likely to play two up front at home. I don't think Alfie is ready yet - possibly the Checkatrade next week or the FA Cup.
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DonnyBaz, thats another talking point,if we carry on with our present one up front,Where do you see Alfie getting in the team? or will he become a bit part player,used as a sub as Whiteman and Mandeville?
I’d put May in Copps or Rowe position. They should be getting into the box as well as Marquis they are not. Both are Luxury players at the moment, both technically good but like the rest of the side are found wanting offensively and do not contribute defensively. At least with Alfie he would break a gut to get in the box and get back to assist defensively.
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Steve ,Mandeville has played the position before well, and has probably scored more goals to minutes on the field than Alfie,and is the cleverer more talented player.
Alfie is a crowd favourite because of his effort and being seen as a player plucked from nowhere,do I like him yes, I just think that from what I have seen of the players we have got, Mandeville is best suited to supporting a lone striker from a withdrawn position up front in the Rowe Coppinger role.
If Marquis is injured Alfie is the ideal man up front,or to come on as a substitute.But at the moment for this Wigan game,injuries apart I would play the same team as at Fleetwood.
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Steve ,Mandeville has played the position before well, and has probably scored more goals to minutes on the field than Alfie,and is the cleverer more talented player.
Alfie is a crowd favourite because of his effort and being seen as a player plucked from nowhere,do I like him yes, I just think that from what I have seen of the players we have got, Mandeville is best suited to supporting a lone striker from a withdrawn position up front in the Rowe Coppinger role.
If Marquis is injured Alfie is the ideal man up front,or to come on as a substitute.But at the moment for this Wigan game,injuries apart I would play the same team as at Fleetwood.
This is where we disagree Mandeville is technically is good but that’s where it stops. He as no pace he is easily taken off the ball and in league 1 is not good enough. Like you I was at the last development game where he was poor along with Williams. Also he’s scored 1 goal in 544 minutes per goal and Alfie scored 5 had Two assists in 192 min per goal. Alfie as played overall twice as many minutes.
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You are not counting the games last season then,do it first team game for game
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Certainly think May will have to be content with a place on the bench when the time comes. There is a case for resorting to two up front at home so, likely that Kongolo would be sacrificed.
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Paul Cook has called on a section of the Wigan Athletic fanbase to eradicate the ‘negativity’ he felt was in the air during Saturday’s home defeat to Bradford City. A stoppage-time strike from Tyrell Robinson handed Latics their first loss in the league at the DW Stadium for eight months, after Chey Dunkley had equalised Charlie Wyke’s opener for the Bantams. And while admitting his men were second best for the majority of an absorbing encounter, Cook says they weren’t helped by some moaning and groaning from the stands. “What supporters do – and rightly so – is they watch a game and they voice an opinion,” he told the Wigan Post. “But more and more in the modern game, those opinions are based on a game-by-game basis. In my opinion, that is not how to manage it. “All of a sudden our crowd were a little bit niggly towards one or two of the players – and that’s not the way. That’s a job for me and the club to do. “Getting after your own players will never, ever work. “It will only result in negativity spreading round.
Read more at: https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/football/latics/cook-disappointed-at-negativity-spreading-round-1-8866129
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Paul Cook has called on a section of the Wigan Athletic fanbase to eradicate the ‘negativity’ he felt was in the air during Saturday’s home defeat to Bradford City. A stoppage-time strike from Tyrell Robinson handed Latics their first loss in the league at the DW Stadium for eight months, after Chey Dunkley had equalised Charlie Wyke’s opener for the Bantams. And while admitting his men were second best for the majority of an absorbing encounter, Cook says they weren’t helped by some moaning and groaning from the stands. “What supporters do – and rightly so – is they watch a game and they voice an opinion,” he told the Wigan Post. “But more and more in the modern game, those opinions are based on a game-by-game basis. In my opinion, that is not how to manage it. “All of a sudden our crowd were a little bit niggly towards one or two of the players – and that’s not the way. That’s a job for me and the club to do. “Getting after your own players will never, ever work. “It will only result in negativity spreading round.
Read more at: https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/football/latics/cook-disappointed-at-negativity-spreading-round-1-8866129
So, first job tomorrow is to silence the crowd. If we can get them on the home players' backs, so much the better.
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Selby, if you are counting last season's games, Marquis had one hell of a scoring rate last season but so far, according to some bright sparks on here, even he is not good enough! So, where does that leave Mandeville? You simply cannot compare what anyone did last season in league 2, we are in a much tougher league now and it's finding one or two in our first team out.
Alfie has the edge, for me, on both Mandeville and Williams at the moment, but only if he comes back from injury firing on all cylinders.
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A.S.I am only stating my personnel preffererence and would not be upset if Alfie starts and would support him 100% and hope with everything I have got that he did well.
I just find it hard to see where he fits in in the present formation, unless it was to replace Marquis,and then with reservations about his stature against big lumps down the middle.
I do think that if Coppinger or Rowe were injured then Mandeville would be the best replacement, if we were to keep the one up front formation.
The reason I started these threads was to get people to discuss our team and club between ourselves,and to see other peoples thoughts.I hope that they are doing that and people will join in say their piece and be constructive,I have been pleasantly surprised up to press and would like to thank everyone who has participated and hope that they will continue to do so and enjoy the banter.
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According to today’s press conference Alfie won’t be back in full training for another seven to ten days. So he won’t be available to play until December.
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I hope we do not rush him back before he is 100% fit. Although I think he is one of those players who will want to be back as soon as possible.
As Fergie pointed out we will need all our players this season.
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Looks like a wet miserable night at Wigan,some of our fans have already got misgivings about the referee,according to Fergie we are playing the best team in this league,and some people did not want them to lose to Bradford the game before we play them.
They are the reasons I have a good feeling about this game,I actually think we can do it tonight.
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To late to take ticket back to office so have a spare if anyone is after one
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I think if we are honest we would all take a point..
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Donny at 19-4 on sky bet is well worth a punt. Given a fair wind we are good enough to win this game in my opinion.
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To late to take ticket back to office so have a spare if anyone is after one
I think that you can get a refund if the ticket isn't used.
Give our ticket office a ring tomorrow if you still have it.
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Donny at 19-4 on sky bet is well worth a punt. Given a fair wind we are good enough to win this game in my opinion.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha please stop isn’t too laughable !!!!
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Donny at 19-4 on sky bet is well worth a punt. Given a fair wind we are good enough to win this game in my opinion.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha please stop isn’t too laughable !!!!
I’d JM scores the sitter he missed we go in 1-1 and not 2-0.
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Donny at 19-4 on sky bet is well worth a punt. Given a fair wind we are good enough to win this game in my opinion.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha please stop isn’t too laughable !!!!
I’d JM scores the sitter he missed we go in 1-1 and not 2-0.
If he’d scored the sitter he missed against Walsall we would have gone in at half time 1-0, time for him to be rested, but unfortunately there isn’t much in reserve to play up front. Time for one of the kids?
COYR
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I think it's time for some of us to realise that we are not good enough. Being realistic doesn't make someone a lesser supporter than one who chooses to be happy-clappy.
I reckon as things stand the Pillocks among us are being more realistic than the Ostriches.
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I think it's time for some of us to realise that we are not good enough. Being realistic doesn't make someone a lesser supporter than one who chooses to be happy-clappy.
I reckon as things stand the Pillocks among us are being more realistic than the Ostriches.
Apparently being realistic makes some supporters moaners though.
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Being realistic is not throwing toys out of the pram when we lose away st the best side in the league
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Being realistic is not throwing toys out of the pram when we lose away st the best side in the league
I haven't seen anyone doing that so far tonight dickos.
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Why is everyone who is not happy-clappy a baby?
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Donnyjim?
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Why is everyone who is not happy-clappy a baby?
Happy clappy?
For not crying over an away defeat to best side in the league
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When we are bad, we are bad. When we are good, we are good. Normal fans can differentiate between the two. Happy-clappers, or super fans as I like to call them, can't.
Now, happy-clappers think the best way to handle their team being shite is to deny it, and bury their super fan heads in the sand, whereas the ordinary fans think the best way to handle their team being shite is to say that their team is shite!
Everyone handles despair differently!
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We were shocking tonight,
But normal fans can understand reasons why, but miserable whiny negative fans can't, and treat every defeat the same
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A very poor show tonight by all the team.Not one of our players would have got into the Wigan team tonight,and we were out played and out thought for 90% of the game.
We had a period in the first half of about 10 minutes when we looked like we could get into the game,then the referee went on a card count which disrupted the game for both sides,and then they dominated the game from then on.
The first two goals were the result of poor defending,but Wigan were streets ahead of us football wise.They played with width,put balls between and behind our defenders for their runners to run onto,and Morsey just strolled through the game for them in mid field.
There are games when you have off days,and games when the other team are just too good for you,and there are days like this, when it is a combination of both.
You have to feel sorry for Williams who was on the end of an absolutely terrible tackle that warranted a red card, but was not given as a foul by a referee who had a disy ten minute spell in the first half booking anyone and everyone that caused a player to fall over and disrupted the flow of the game completely.
I hope that Williams is not too badly injured and is not out again.
A bad day at the office all round,lets hope we can pick ourselves up at the weekend,after this showing we certainly need to.
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I'm actually quite glad we saved our worst performance of the season for undoubtedly our most difficult fixture of the season.
That's about the only consolation that can be taken from tonight.
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A.h.I cannot take any consolation in that performance,I thought we were on the up,and it just feels as if we are back where we started tonight.
It was not good enough,every player was outplayed by his opponent,we never came to terms with their wide players,and our midfield lacked any creativeness at all.Only Butler and Wright played anything like and they were overrun.
Baudry does not look settled at all on the left side of a three,probably Butler would be better as the left side player,the wing backs however never got a grip of the wide players of Wigan
and never stopped a cross coming in all night.
It was poor,thats the only way to describe it.
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I agree that it was poor, but it's worse than playing poor in a six-pointer game and losing to a team around us in the league table.
I've already come to realise that one week we can be great, then the next week we can be atrocious and that sort of Jekyll & Hyde form is going to hinder us until at least the transfer window.
I have every belief that we'll survive though!
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We were shocking tonight,
But normal fans can understand reasons why, but miserable whiny negative fans can't, and treat every defeat the same
So what were the reasons why we were shocking last night?
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Main reason being they are far better than us, and have beaten others just as easily.
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Them being far better than us is no reason for us to be shocking.
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They were too good for us,
Big game on Saturday
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Another bad aspect from last night is that five of the six teams below us picked up points.
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2 of the bottom 4 got beat
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Another bad aspect from last night is that five of the six teams below us picked up points.
Except two of them lost. Things are still looking bleak, though.
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Yeah, you are right, so only four of the six below us picked up points.
I feel much better now.
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I still believe it will come good, but there are some pressing concerns.
At the start of the season we all believed it would be our defence losing us games. So far this season it's our attack that isn't winning us games.
Then to look at individuals.
Lawlor, has been doing okay, apart from some mind farts, looks promising.
Wright, had a bad game last night but has stepped up this year.
Baudry, maybe it's the position and role asked to play, but doesn't look as comfortable at the moment.
Blair, has the pace, has a big heart but sometimes lack the quality.
Toffolo, gutted to of lost Danny Andrew, but not sold on Toffolo yet. I think Garrett should of got more of a chance.
Houghton, isn't quite as good as we thought maybe.
Kongolo, a bit of an enigma, sometimes looks good, sometimes looks lost. I think it's down to his lack of experience and early stages of development.
Copps, is copps, but sadly cannot last forever.
Rowe, I like him, but I don't feel like he is used to the best of his ability.
Marquis, i understand he is low on confidence, support. But no excuses for missing some of these sitters. Watched the ball bounce of him like a brick wall too many times last night. Frustrating.
Williams, should be given a chance. When he came on last night, I thought it was his chance to prove himself. Got crunched and could barely walk. I have a feeling his days are numbered under Fergie.
Beestin, has shown promise, but last night looked so far out of his depth.
Whiteman, isn't suited to the Houghton role, isn't a good playmaker like Rowe and Copps. Maybe a box to box player?
And then looking at some of the others
Mason, gone from Real Madrid, to out of favour at Doncaster. Still not sure what his best position is
May, cannot be faulted for effort, but the jury is still out on if he can make the step up. Obviously injury has delayed that.
Kimoya, hopefully he can come back and be the support Marquis needs. But hopefully that's not in L2.
McCullough, also been a fan on his. But we cannot afford a player who is out 90% of the time.
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We've picked up points in our last 3 games when these sides haven't
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We've picked up points in our last 3 games when these sides haven't
Agreed but the points difference to the bottom club has now closed to only four points so there has been some change in circumstances.
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Whether it is their quality or experience, if I really think hard, the only two players who have performed at a consistent level this season have been Butler and Copps. Even those other players who have done pretty well have been erratic or made individual errors. You cannot really look around that team and say that 5-6 players are going to consistently give you good performances. This I think is the real core of our problem.
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To be fair though, a few weeks ago we won a game (might've been Bury, might've been before that) and gained points on almost the entire division because there were about 8 draws in 12 matches. Ebb and flow of a football season.
(You guys discussed it twice so I thought I'd put this in here too) :P
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just watched the highlights - all 3 goals were either lucky or sloppy. A lucky deflection, the 2nd one we gave 1 player far too much time in our box, and Lawlor should have done better for the 3rd, although the defending again was poor.
I'm sure we'll bounced back Saturday though! :scarf: :chair: