Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: selby on November 22, 2017, 09:42:19 am
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The game has taken on a whole new importance to us after our poor game at Wigan,and other teams below us in the table picking up points to narrow the gap at the bottom of the table.
Will we see a number of changes?
Or will Fergie see it as just one bad game and make minimal changes?
Do we go four at the back?
How will being completely outplayed by a better team affect our players confidence?
Will we play with one up front?
What do you think?
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I think 3 at the back suits us when we're looking to take the game to the opposition. Yesterday 4-5-1 would've been a better system as we knew we'd be under the cosh.
So I think stick with 3, but need players getting closer to marquis.
I think I'd give coops a free role to support him and not have to worry about defensive duties as much
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We need to play 3-4-1-2 instead of 3-4-2-1... We need to get someone up top with marquis... Idd move Rowe to the left wing back role as toffolo is not good enough, and have copps in the 10 role behind the front 2... Everyone talks about fergy only knows how to play attacking football, but I've seen very little of that lately. The football we're playing is awful, so slow and ponderous. Time for a change
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Haven't really got a good track record against MK Dons have we?
I think things need mixing up a bit up top. Get Mandeville up there with Marquis. For all of John's running and endeavour it's not paying off is it. 1 goal in 3 (not through our man, may I add) isn't good enough. I'd take a horrible 1-0 off John's quiff at this rate.
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The only thing worth talking about the MK Dons game is that we win. However it happens we HAVE to win. No excuses, no the refs shite etc etc. A win is the only important thing
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No pressure there then MFD quite a motivational speech that,I am sure everyone at the club is aware we need to win,How would you line up? would you change the team?what tactics would you adopt?would you ball them out or try to inspire them to play to their maximum ability? All things to discuss between ourselves,who are their danger men?how do you think they will set up against us?are we capable of getting the win we need?
It would be good to know your views,it is an open debate.Me I am hoping for a reaction to last night, and would play Mandeville,and play Baudry on the right of a four.
Lawlor
Baudry Wright Butler Toffolo/Garrett
Houghton
Blair Coppinger Rowe
Mandeville
Marquise
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The only thing worth talking about the MK Dons game is that we win. However it happens we HAVE to win. No excuses, no the refs shite etc etc. A win is the only important thing
Yet if we win playing shit you'll be the first on here saying so
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I would take any win and any kind of performance to get it as things stand right now.
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I'd give Marosi a whirl - Lawlor hasn't been pulling any trees up. I would also start with Whiteman and consider giving Ben Khemis a game - not sure why we signed him, if only to warm the bench.
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We need to play 3-4-1-2 instead of 3-4-2-1... We need to get someone up top with marquis... Idd move Rowe to the left wing back role as toffolo is not good enough, and have copps in the 10 role behind the front 2... Everyone talks about fergy only knows how to play attacking football, but I've seen very little of that lately. The football we're playing is awful, so slow and ponderous. Time for a change
To play Rowe in the left wing back role is a complete waste of his ability.
He should be scoring at least 10 goals a season in this league but he will not get many playing as a wing back.
He is our most creative player along side Copps so needs to be playing in an advanced mid field role.
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The only thing worth talking about the MK Dons game is that we win. However it happens we HAVE to win. No excuses, no the refs shite etc etc. A win is the only important thing
Yet if we win playing shit you'll be the first on here saying so
I don't give a monkey's elbow how we win to be honest.
Here goes then:
Marosi in for Lawlor. Lawler inspires no confidence in me whatsoever. Every shot from distance seems to beat him and his distribution is awful.
I'd ditch the back 3 and go with a back 4. Bring in a right back, I guess it would have to be Allcock as there's no-one else, Baudry and Butler centre half and Toffolo left back (we don't have another)
4 in the middle and play with some width. Coppinger and Rowe wide with Houghton and Whiteman central and then 2 up front - a good old 442 that we can actually play.
Up front Marquis wouldn't be playing for me for a while, focus his mind a bit. Play Mandeville and Beestin up front. They couldn't do any worse
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Would rather have Mason than Alcock. Leave Marquis in just give him a strike partner. He is working hard it's just not happening for him in front of goalatvthevpresent time.
Once he gets a couple under his belt in a winning team then his confidence will come back. He can still get 15+ gaols this season.
He needs support both ON and OFF the pitch.
So all those Marquis bashers need to get behind him or last season really will be a one off for him.
Confidence and self belief is KING for all strikers so get off his back and give him the support he needs.
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Can't drop wright,
Marquis needs confidence, not playing terrible but no confidence in front of goal, only scoring will bring that back.
We would get overrun in the middle of the park playing 4-4-2,
I wouldn't play marosi
Lawlor
Alcock Baudry
Wright Butler
Kongolo. Houghton. Rowe
Whiteman coppinger
Marquis
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Baudry at left back? Surely Garratt deserves a go in that position?
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Could play Baudry at right back.
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Our best partnership at centre back last year was Baudry and Butler and we haven't started with just those two all season. Give them a go in a back two.
Wright has had a good season but we're 18th in the league, no one is undroppable.
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We need to play 3-4-1-2 instead of 3-4-2-1... We need to get someone up top with marquis... Idd move Rowe to the left wing back role as toffolo is not good enough, and have copps in the 10 role behind the front 2... Everyone talks about fergy only knows how to play attacking football, but I've seen very little of that lately. The football we're playing is awful, so slow and ponderous. Time for a change
To play Rowe in the left wing back role is a complete waste of his ability.
He should be scoring at least 10 goals a season in this league but he will not get many playing as a wing back.
He is our most creative player along side Copps so needs to be playing in an advanced mid field role.
I would normally totally agree, but if we are to persist with the current formation, but with 2 strikers, that leaves either copps or Rowe to play the 10 role. Copps can't play any where else which is why I would move Rowe to the left intil Jan when we can hopefully strengthen in that area. I don't rate toffolo, and not seen enough of garret. We also need to strengthen at right wing back. Blair is well off form currently, and is still to prove he's good enough at this level. Alcock and Mason offer nothing going forward either.
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Yeah baudry left back, he's left footed, he's a defender, he's not looked great since he's come back at centre half.
Would be a very solid back four that, with houghton just in front.
Then let the other 5 create
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What ever formation we play we need 2 upfront, the midfield just does not get up quick enough to help marquis
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Baudry is struggling to play left side of the centre halves, he'd have no chance at left back. Got no pace either.
A lot of square pegs, round holes being suggested here. Beestin and Mandeville up front? Neither of them are out-and-out strikers, in fact I'd say both are best suited to playing in the #10 role. Dropping Wright makes utterly no sense, he's been our most consistent performer all season along with Butler.
People wonder why managers don't do things the fans suggest...
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Playing baudry at left back would be because he's struggling at centre half.
Full back is the easiest position on the park to play, and we still keep his height for set pieces.
Tofilo cant defend
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Your logic is flawed in my opinion, sorry. Marquis is struggling up front, so should we try him at full back too since it's so easy? Or Lawlor maybe, since he has his critics?
I'm exaggerating now, but you know what I mean. Wing back is a specialist position, and whether we like it or not Fergie seems intent on playing with them. Toffolo is getting better with more game time, I don't think Baudry is a realistic option as a full back at all. He isn't mobile enough, doesn't have the pace and won't know the positional sense you need. If he's struggling, take him out the team. Garratt is a left back and has done well when called upon this year.
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Baudry has played full back in his career, he's played there for us.
Of course he'll know the positional sense, full back is a simple position.
I used to play centre midfield when I played, I played there for rovers youth team, our manager got sacked and dave cowling took over, he didn't fancy me as a midfielder and played me left back, id never played there in my life.
All you need to do is play the ball into the channel and it looks like a great ball, and you've only to worry about defending against one player.
Baudry is a defender first and foremost so he'd slot in there no problem
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Game's moved on since then Dickos. Full backs have been expected to be attacking players since the days of Roberto Carlos and Cafu. The general trend recently to go with 3 centre backs and 2 wingbacks has only pushed them further up the pitch.
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Wasn't that long ago Swinton 😂
I know, but I think we need to go back to basics, have a solid back four with proper defenders in it, similar to under Saunders.
And then have 4 or 5 attack minded players
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Baudry isn't left footed.
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Only problem dickos is all our midfield and 1 forward have no intention of running the channels
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Baudry is our most gifted player in defence when he has the ball at his feet when defending on the right side of defence, but does not look as confident or comfortable on the left side when bringing the ball out of defence to me.
He is not a natural left footed player,which does not help the set up of the team that a natural left footed player gives you.
People know my thinking about loan players having to play or we pay their wages, and that is the only reason I can see why Toffolo plays instead of Garrett,who when he has played has been just as good,although Toffolo has done OK. I just do not think there is a lot between them appart from experience.
As I hinted in my line up,I would play Mandeville up with Marquis,but just withdrawn behind him,and would make Marquis play and stay up front as I think he is trying to cover too much ground and coming too deep.
The right side of the Blair/Rodney Coppinger Rowe midfield would be my worry.Blair and Rodney are both good going forward but are poor in defence good going forward,and is the reason I picked Baudry on the right for experience and to bully them into getting back when needed. so a fluid 4 1 3 1 1 if you want.
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Baudry isn't left footed.
Apart from the fact that he is not left footed, is out of form even in his favoured position, no evidence he can play full back let alone wing back, has no notable pace or evident crossing ability, why should he not be forced to play left full back?
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My mistake if he isn't, but he must be comfortable with both feet then, as he uses his left foot regularly.
I never said he should play wing back, completely different position to full back.
A centre half should comfortably be able to play full back and vice versa.
O Connor, friend, being two examples off the top of my head who were comfortable in either
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The only reason I suggested dropping Wright is so we could play with 2 specialist full backs and 2 specialist centre halves.
In the bigger scheme of things the 2 centre halves could be any of Wright, Baudry or Butler. I don't think it would make much difference really as none of the 3 is any better/worse than the other.
Having seen the highlights from Wigan, and in particular the third goal, I would definitely bring in Marosi. I think I could have saved that
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The only reason I suggested dropping Wright is so we could play with 2 specialist full backs and 2 specialist centre halves.
In the bigger scheme of things the 2 centre halves could be any of Wright, Baudry or Butler. I don't think it would make much difference really as none of the 3 is any better/worse than the other.
Having seen the highlights from Wigan, and in particular the third goal, I would definitely bring in Marosi. I think I could have saved that
Wright has been our best player this season.
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Dickos1,I agree that Baudry is two footed and a good player,but my friend and I have noticed he is more reluctant to come forward with the ball himself, and does not look for the out ball but passes it back inside to Butler to clear down the channels when played left side.
He is just not as comfortable on the left side to me,and it takes something away from his game which we cannot afford.
I have tried to pick a side and formation that I think would suit the players we have got,rather than shoe horn players into positions.I would have no problem with either Blair/Rodney,Toffolo/Garrett playing in the positions I have chosen them as I think there is nothing between them in what they bring to the team, and you could play Whiteman instead of Blair or Rodney on the right side midfield.
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My mistake if he isn't, but he must be comfortable with both feet then, as he uses his left foot regularly.
I never said he should play wing back, completely different position to full back.
A centre half should comfortably be able to play full back and vice versa.
O Connor, friend, being two examples off the top of my head who were comfortable in either
Having O'Connor play at centre back on a regular basis ruined the best right back we've had in my time. What we wouldn't do for O'Connor and Gareth Roberts now?
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Dickos, in this thread you've basically now said that the left back slot is closer in style to centre half than wing back when it isn't. Baudry himself said only days ago that he has been having to get used to playing left side of the three because it isn't something he's used to or as naturally adept at as playing on the right.
It's really as simple as this: to a good football manager, a sensible solution to selection problems is never to play players out of position like that. Anyone remember when Dickov decided to start a season with no right backs, and the solution was to play Luke McCullough there even though he was a young, slow as a snail centre half? And Dickov was never a good manager.
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The only thing worth talking about the MK Dons game is that we win. However it happens we HAVE to win. No excuses, no the refs shite etc etc. A win is the only important thing
Yet if we win playing shit you'll be the first on here saying so
I don't give a monkey's elbow how we win to be honest.
Here goes then:
Marosi in for Lawlor. Lawler inspires no confidence in me whatsoever. Every shot from distance seems to beat him and his distribution is awful.
I'd ditch the back 3 and go with a back 4. Bring in a right back, I guess it would have to be Allcock as there's no-one else, Baudry and Butler centre half and Toffolo left back (we don't have another)
4 in the middle and play with some width. Coppinger and Rowe wide with Houghton and Whiteman central and then 2 up front - a good old 442 that we can actually play.
Up front Marquis wouldn't be playing for me for a while, focus his mind a bit. Play Mandeville and Beestin up front. They couldn't do any worse
Simple,effective and with width...Back to basic's with our midfielders playing in positions they like..You've sold me on this one Mr Frost..
On Mandeville even with our problems upfront he didn't even make the match day squad for Wigan..You wouldn't have believed that this time last year when everyone was watching him.
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“They couldn’t do any worse” that’s not true is it! Beestin and Mandeville up front would be a disaster.
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Okay Gaz why do you say that??..i'm not sure how you can get much more disastrous than our current scoring record..How could it be worse??
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Dickos, in this thread you've basically now said that the left back slot is closer in style to centre half than wing back when it isn't. Baudry himself said only days ago that he has been having to get used to playing left side of the three because it isn't something he's used to or as naturally adept at as playing on the right.
It's really as simple as this: to a good football manager, a sensible solution to selection problems is never to play players out of position like that. Anyone remember when Dickov decided to start a season with no right backs, and the solution was to play Luke McCullough there even though he was a young, slow as a snail centre half? And Dickov was never a good manager.
I haven't said that at all
I've said it's easier for a centre back to play full back rather than wing back.
That's obvious.
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Okay Gaz why do you say that??..i'm not sure how you can get much more disastrous than our current scoring record..How could it be worse??
So you are saying it can’t be worse than 18th place and 20 points in 19 games?? It can.
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I'm not saying that at all..What I'm saying is that Marquis couldn't hit a cow arse with a banjo at the minute and he's even been at fault for us conceding..So I don't really see how giving those 2 a try for the MK Dons game would be a disaster..
If they gel and surprise us by scoring goals that's great and if they don't it will maybe give Marquis a rest and a reality check that he isn't invaluable..
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With what we have available must be very difficult to forcast a winning team for sat
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Goalkick,of course we can win this game,and I am sure we will have a good go of doing so.
We have just had two very hard away games,lots of fans thought that we would not even get the point we got at Fleetwood.
If we play well we have a very good chance of taking three points,lets hope so.
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Well it looks like being the perfect football watching day cold,not a lot of wind(except me of course) a low wintry sun which makes me wonder,will our goalkeeper wear a peaked hat or stand with his arm up shading his eyes as in the last home game.
It makes me wonder if it is vanity about their looks,or just not fashion,or is it they cannot afford the cap.
I dont think it would be vanity,as he hardly looked model class when wearing a bobble hat at the development game,must be the cost of a base ball cap then.
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I used to love seeing Old Man Sully don the keeper's hat on a sunny day.
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Well,after a horrible half of football,when the opposition looked like they would give us a good hiding, we changed our set up slightly brought Copps back into the fray in midfield where he got on the ball,and Beestin came on and gave us more width and turned the game on its head.
The conversation at half time with my friends,centred on just how poor we had been and we looked as if we had not met each other before,well we could not pass to each other,and it looked as if nobody wanted the ball.
The second half was just the opposite, Beestin played very well and was the catalist of most of our best play,players all of a sudden showed for the ball,and John Marquis at last had players around him to lay the ball off to.
The second goal actually came from a throw in something we have seemed incapable of throwing to our own players the last few weeks,and with the first being the result of a corner,they were more than a surprise to me.
Did we deserve 3 points probably just,but other teams would have spanked us in the first half. a word for Nail Mason,I have been his biggest critic,but hats off to him today he had two good halves,unlike most of his team mates,and showed an attacking side to his game which has not been evident to me before,My man of the match,I want to see more of this.
At the end of the day a win is a win and a handy 3 points,and we did show that as a team we can play more than one formation,although I hope we do not play one formation as badly again,and I have noted that Mason had a shot on target from outside the penalty area( I never thought I would see the day).
So from the depths of despair at half time,to a scruffy win and happy days at full time,the wife does not have to sleep in the shed,and the dog can have a biscuit,and I dont have to change my vest and underpants till our next loss.
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Must be interesting living in your house!
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vote for your man of the match --> https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=264391 :scarf: