Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: esdailles left foot on November 22, 2017, 09:40:34 pm
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Did the end of last season's capitulation effect this season's form. Massively in my opinion
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If we had won the league as we probably should have done, I think expectation levels would have gone through the roof even more than they already have with some supporters.
At least that dip in form/complete bloody catastrophe made us all realise that we weren't as invincible as we'd like to think and lowered expectation levels from what they otherwise would be.
Last season, for me, is over and done with now though. Promotion was the aim and we achieved it. The title would have been nice, and we should have had it, but we still achieved our ultimate aim before a ball was kicked.
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Not at all in my opinion,
We started this season well
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Not at all in my opinion,
We started this season well
Do you know Dickos, I do actually PMSL at you sometimes!!
To use your maxim of 8 games as a measure of form - unless you want to change it again to suit your own purposes - we actually picked up 6 points from those 8 games, so we actually started the season very badly.
Now if you want to reduce it to 3 games, we picked up 5 points from 3 games which was not bad at all.
But that means if course that we've picked up 15 points from our last 16 games. So, which is it to be today??
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4 April 2017.
“Rovers will now turn their attention to securing the League Two title. And Ferguson insists he will have no problem making sure his players remain focused for the final five games.
“The first thing’s done - promoted,” he said. We can now focus on the next five games and make sure we win the league...We’re six points ahead with five games to go. We want to go unbeaten for the rest of the season.”
14 April - drew 0-0 vs Mansfield
17 April - lost 1-0 vs Blackpool
22 April - lost 2-1 vs Wycombe
29 April - lost 3-1 vs Exeter
6 May - lost 2-1 vs Hartlepool
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4 April 2017.
“Rovers will now turn their attention to securing the League Two title. And Ferguson insists he will have no problem making sure his players remain focused for the final five games.
“The first thing’s done - promoted,” he said. We can now focus on the next five games and make sure we win the league...We’re six points ahead with five games to go. We want to go unbeaten for the rest of the season.”
14 April - drew 0-0 vs Mansfield
17 April - lost 1-0 vs Blackpool
22 April - lost 2-1 vs Wycombe
29 April - lost 3-1 vs Exeter
6 May - lost 2-1 vs Hartlepool
We beat Mansfield and drew with Colchester 0-0 didn’t we?
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I think there's an impact. Some of it is confidence some of it is lack of talent some of it is learning and some bad management.
The most prevalent thing is we can and will improve.
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4 April 2017.
“Rovers will now turn their attention to securing the League Two title. And Ferguson insists he will have no problem making sure his players remain focused for the final five games.
“The first thing’s done - promoted,” he said. We can now focus on the next five games and make sure we win the league...We’re six points ahead with five games to go. We want to go unbeaten for the rest of the season.”
14 April - drew 0-0 vs Mansfield
17 April - lost 1-0 vs Blackpool
22 April - lost 2-1 vs Wycombe
29 April - lost 3-1 vs Exeter
6 May - lost 2-1 vs Hartlepool
Not quite right mate, the 14th April game was a 1-1 draw at Colchester.
If i remember correctly, after the Mansfield game we had players who were "not available" for various reasons for the rest of the season but they suddenly were available again after it became apparent that winning the title was not going to be as easy as had been thought.
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Not at all in my opinion,
We started this season well
Do you know Dickos, I do actually PMSL at you sometimes!!
To use your maxim of 8 games as a measure of form - unless you want to change it again to suit your own purposes - we actually picked up 6 points from those 8 games, so we actually started the season very badly.
Now if you want to reduce it to 3 games, we picked up 5 points from 3 games which was not bad at all.
But that means if course that we've picked up 15 points from our last 16 games. So, which is it to be today??
As you've already proven stats can be displayed anyway you want to back your own argument so it's really a daft conversation
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It doesn't matter which statistics you use or which side of the fence you are on we are far too near the bottom.
Anybody that isn't concerned should be. The level of concern will vary with individuals but our tendency to shoot ourselves in the foot or collapse over the last few seasons mean that we need some daylight sooner rather than later.
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Did the end of last season's capitulation effect this season's form. Massively in my opinion
No !!! It was the events of the clear out or lack of it . Williams being asked to leave then asked to stay ! Marquis procrastinating of a new deal , Middleton not going when DF wanted him to , Alex Kiwomya falling ill etc etc ...so it was quite a lot of things and for what it’s worth ‘imo ‘ the lack of for sight of the club by not securing signings early enough when they discovered that 2 of their targets were going elsewhere . We are left with a team predominantly made of League 2 experienced players and not enough quality.
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It doesn't matter which statistics you use or which side of the fence you are on we are far too near the bottom.
Anybody that isn't concerned should be. The level of concern will vary with individuals but our tendency to shoot ourselves in the foot or collapse over the last few seasons mean that we need some daylight sooner rather than later.
That is a reasoned summary that I hope most people would share. What is most concerning is that there seems to be little progression on the pitch and little seems to ever change. Have we actually moved on in two years? (noting we went backwards to League Two).
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How can Alex Kiwomya be a lack of foresight?
And which two of our first choice players went elsewhere?
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We were really unlucky with Kiwomya,nobody could have predicted that.We were also unlucky with Danny Andrews which for me has been the biggest blow.I wasn't that convinced of him to start with but he looked real quality before his bad injury..
As for Williams nobody really knows but the suspicion is he couldn't get a deal close to what he was on here and didn't want to go..Nobody can moan about the amount of budget used to secure the Marquis deal.Everybody on here was demanding it was done..
In a parallel universe Kiwomya would be flashing down the wing.Andrews would be making us hard to score against and Marquis and Williams would be banging them in for fun.So I don't think we are paying for last season's finish at all.We've just been really unlucky on how things have panned out with our key players..
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I am not really sure that since1969 was saying that Kiwomyas' situation is being included in his "lack of foresight" views.
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We definitely missed out on a striker in the summer, Fergie brought it up as one of the reasons for the Williams U-turn.
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I am not really sure that since1969 was saying that Kiwomyas' situation is being included in his "lack of foresight" views.
No . But I was saying the lack of foresight with regards to not signing two players who changed their minds about coming to the Rovers and not having possible replacements . Alex was just unlucky and Williams too as he was asked to stay.
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I am not really sure that since1969 was saying that Kiwomyas' situation is being included in his "lack of foresight" views.
No . But I was saying the lack of foresight with regards to not signing two players who changed their minds about coming to the Rovers and not having possible replacements . Alex was just unlucky and Williams too as he was asked to stay.
So I'll ask the question again, which two players changed their mind about coming to DRFC? And how can you possibly be sure that we didn't have replacements in mind?
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An unrelated question SM if I may.
Is your assessment that our budget this season is give or take in the top half for this league, or the bottom half?
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An unrelated question SM if I may.
Is your assessment that our budget this season is give or take in the top half for this league, or the bottom half?
My assessment, and information from other sources, is definitely top half!
I have a meeting with Shaun Harvey next week, should I ask him? 😉
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Thank you. Most would I am sure concur that top half is certainly “competitive”.
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Budgets certainly aren't the be all and end all. Just a quick look at the league tables throughout the country shows that the budget isn't a clear indicator of where sides will finish.
Examples, Burnley, sheff Utd, Shrewsbury, bury, Brighton, West Ham, Everton, Cardiff, chesterfield, Accrington Stanley. Etc etc etc
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Well, none of them have finished yet have they.
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Hound that's what I've been telling
You for weeks, about our league position
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Thank you. Most would I am sure concur that top half is certainly “competitive”.
Depends what you mean by 'competitive'.
Competitive for finishing 7th or 8th, or competitive for finishing 11th or 12th?
It's quite clear now that DF wasn't given a budget to finish top two, or even top six.
I think he's made that plain himself with subtle hints about how much some League 1 sides have had to spend this season.
It was also obvious that the well was dry when it became clear Kiwonya was going to miss most of the season well before the campaign started and nobody was brought in on loan to replace him.
We are now left with just two strikers (Beestin is supposed to be a creative midfield player in the words of DF) - one who is out of form when it comes to scoring goals and one who seems to be out of favour with Fergie.
How he could rotate him off the bench at Wigan is a mystery.
Kiwomya's illness has been a massive blow not only to the lad himself but also to the club.
Much was expected of him and his pace.
So if there was a lack of foresight, for me it was not replacing him.
And was that Fergie's fault or the board's?
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Hound that's what I've been telling
You for weeks, about our league position
I won’t disagree about that...........we could yet finish in the bottom four, we are certainly heading that way just now.
Now if SM is right about us having a top half budget, in my eyes our current position or worse at the end of the season would be abject failure.
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I agree, but I don't think using solely the budget to determine where everyone should be finishing is a very intelligent way
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I agree, but I don't think using solely the budget to determine where everyone should be finishing is a very intelligent way
Jus o confirm this, I haven’t said that.
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A good manager will over achieve with his budget, a bad manager's team will under perform. It sounds simplistic but some managers do always seem to cope with a small budget and others fritter away theirs.
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I wonder what was the last time that we had a bad run of injuries and still exceeded expectations?
This year, we're not into Winter and we've already had the following be injured for substantial lengths of the season.
May
Andrew
Kiwomya
McCullough
Baudry
Williams
I suspect there aren't many clubs at this level who do well when more than a quarter of their first team squad are out for extended periods.
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The best guide - but absolutely not certain - of success is the amount of money available.
The reason we struggled in the Championship once the SOD magic wore off was that we were being massively outspent. SOD could bridge the gap only for so long but then we ended up with Sam Hird and Richard Naylor as a CB partnership.
We have a top half budget but a bottom six team. That really is regrettable.
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The best guide - but absolutely not certain - of success is the amount of money available.
The reason we struggled in the Championship once the SOD magic wore off was that we were being massively outspent. SOD could bridge the gap only for so long but then we ended up with Sam Hird and Richard Naylor as a CB partnership.
We have a top half budget but a bottom six team. That really is regrettable.
It's still too skewed with the wages for me.
We probably have 4/5 players on top two wages for this division, yet the rest of our team are on mid-table mediocrity wages.
Ultimately, we have a very mediocre team at the moment.
I just hope DF is allowed the finances to freshen things up in January and sign the certain type of players which we all know we're lacking.
Fingers crossed.
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The best guide - but absolutely not certain - of success is the amount of money available.
The reason we struggled in the Championship once the SOD magic wore off was that we were being massively outspent. SOD could bridge the gap only for so long but then we ended up with Sam Hird and Richard Naylor as a CB partnership.
We have a top half budget but a bottom six team. That really is regrettable.
CBCB
O'Driscoll went on record at the start of 2011/12 saying something to the effect of, "Finally we have a wage budget that's competitive in this division."
And yet, to add to what you said, our back 6 in his final home game in charge was:
Woods
Dumbuya
Hird
Naylor
Friend
Spurr
Two out of six who were remotely Championship quality. And we started the season with seven defeats and a draw.
It's not always about money...
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I thought SO'D uttered something along the lines of 'We need to accept that sometimes you have to take a step backwards to go forwards' - effectively hinting that 2011-12 was going to be a season where we'd struggle and probably get relegated, after we stayed up on the final day of the 2010-11 and lost at Middlesbrough.
I remember reading a piece on it.
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Here it is...
I recalled a post-match press conference at Middlesbrough, following a 3-0 defeat on the final of the day of the 2010/11 season, that has always stuck with me.
Rovers had just limped to Championship safety, winning just two games out of their last 26 in all competitions. They finished the season one place above the drop zone and O’Driscoll made the point that the club, given their resources, might eventually have to accept relegation to League One in order to put in place a viable long term plan for future success and sustainability.
At the time I remember thinking it might set off a few alarm bells in the boardroom.
And as I recalled that press conference, O’Driscoll smiled wryly. “That got me the sack by the way,” he interjected tellingly.
My question was whether he now felt vindicated? Rovers are now driven by a long term plan to be sustainable - exactly what he had suggested five years ago. “Not really,” he said. “I was right in the start. “When somebody comes in and says they can get you in the Premier League and you haven’t got to spend any money, if you believe that then you’re stupid.”
O’Driscoll was, of course, referring to the ill-fated ‘experiment’ that arguably prompted and then followed his sacking. What he appears to confirm is that the seeds of doubt about his tenure were sown not just by his team’s poor form on the pitch but by those very comments he made at Middlesbrough.
‘Accepting relegation’ is not something that would have sat kindly with then-chairman John Ryan, who was still daring to dream about guiding Rovers all the way from the Conference to the Premier League.
So when the ‘experiment’ idea was put to Ryan, now aware of O’Driscoll’s viewpoint, he was probably more inclined to go with it. The only way was up for Ryan, not down, and not long term.
O’Driscoll has long since moved on from Doncaster. In the meantime he has worked for Crawley Town, Nottingham Forest, Bristol City and Liverpool, as well as coaching England’s Under 19s. He is now firmly focused on the future with Walsall.
But his comments seem to suggest what we probably already knew - that his exit from the Keepmoat and the circumstances surrounding it, some five years on, still rankles with him to this very day.
https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers/doncaster-rovers-that-got-me-the-sack-by-the-way-o-driscoll-1-7721709
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We had our days of glory and the club couldn’t and wouldn’t go on paying out without progress that was sustainable. We are in far better place financially now but progress will be at a financial growth pace and not at a speculative one . DF is being tested to find quality young players who he can build on and start to establish a foundation. I’m no a fan of DF because HIS past days very much mirrored Rovers and O’Driscoll’s .
The so called plan for the future has got of to a stuttering start and IF we survive relegation it will require a full rethink of player purchases and better contingency planning now that the loan market and purchase market are linked to the same start/finish date .
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I thought SO'D uttered something along the lines of 'We need to accept that sometimes you have to take a step backwards to go forwards' - effectively hinting that 2011-12 was going to be a season where we'd struggle and probably get relegated, after we stayed up on the final day of the 2010-11 and lost at Middlesbrough.
I remember reading a piece on it.
That was a weird season, that. It felt as though we were clinging on for dear life and we made it by the skin of our teeth but the day we confirmed our survival I'm sure the gap was six points and although it was a catastrophe we were never really in actual danger of falling into the bottom three because they were that far adrift.
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The best guide - but absolutely not certain - of success is the amount of money available.
The reason we struggled in the Championship once the SOD magic wore off was that we were being massively outspent. SOD could bridge the gap only for so long but then we ended up with Sam Hird and Richard Naylor as a CB partnership.
We have a top half budget but a bottom six team. That really is regrettable.
We ain't in the bottom 6
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Must have time on your hands comrade.
The sixth bottom team is Wimbledon (who beat us) on 19 games and 20 points with minus 6 goal difference.
We are on 19 games and 20 points and minus 5 goal difference.
So we are a one goal off being in the bottom six.
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I've got two seconds yes mate
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The Squad is good enough to fight for the play offs Its the Formation we play.Some players play week in week out without criticism where others are castigated week in week out on this forum
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The Squad is good enough to fight for the play offs Its the Formation we play.Some players play week in week out without criticism where others are castigated week in week out on this forum
i very much doubt we’ll get anwhere near the play offs , injuries and out of form players has seen to that , DF is pulling his hair out trying to get Marquis to just get a shot on target and with others not pulling their weight we are what we’ve earned so far this season but the January window could help if there is a quality striker looking for a club .
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The Squad is good enough to fight for the play offs Its the Formation we play.Some players play week in week out without criticism where others are castigated week in week out on this forum
This squad is nowhere near good enough to be near the play offs.
I do agree with what you say about formations. Half the time the players don't seem to have a clue what they're supposed to be doing, but we are where we are because that's how good we are