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Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Mustapha-Dump on November 23, 2017, 07:25:21 pm

Title: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: Mustapha-Dump on November 23, 2017, 07:25:21 pm
I’ve just watched a short clip on sky sports from a programme called the debate and Craig Bellamy was a guest, discussion the above.

It’s something that fascinates me greatly and I have spoken about it for hours on end with my mother in law who happens to be gay, and I arrive at the same conclusion every time I talk to her about it, and that is that in my opinion the biggest hurdle would be us, the fans.

I say ‘us’ and hopefully I say it wrongly, I know I personally would have no problem with it, as I shouldn’t it isn’t a problem, but how would it make you feel?

I can’t help but feel that if you’re 1-1 away from home and you concede a last minute goal scored by a gay player there be a derogatory comment, and I also can’t help but feel it wouldn’t be dealt with in the same way racism would be, although in my opinion it is largely the same.

So how would it affect you? Would it affect you? Would it bother you? I’ve never seen it spoken about on here really so thought it was worth an ask.

Personally I have got zero issue with our star man having a Friday night in with his fella as long as he does the business on a Saturday!
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: since-1969 on November 23, 2017, 07:27:45 pm
 :thumbdown:
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: DonnyOsmond on November 23, 2017, 07:37:35 pm
I'm not narrow minded. I don't care if one of our players is gay or straight. As long as they give 100% every game.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: Bessie Red on November 23, 2017, 07:40:55 pm
I'm reckon we have probably already conceded a last minute goal scored by a gay player although we just dont know he is gay. And that is where I stand on the debate ie why do we need to know the sexuality of footballers, I really couldnt care less.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: since-1969 on November 23, 2017, 07:49:51 pm
With the amount coloured football boots these days on display Im beginning to think it’s a subliminal signal being sent out that gay players are already out there.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: The Red Baron on November 23, 2017, 08:15:28 pm
I'm reckon we have probably already conceded a last minute goal scored by a gay player although we just dont know he is gay. And that is where I stand on the debate ie why do we need to know the sexuality of footballers, I really couldnt care less.

That doesn't narrow it down much!
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: dickos1 on November 23, 2017, 08:16:24 pm
Why did u put thumbs down?
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: roversdude on November 23, 2017, 08:24:00 pm
Doesn’t bother me but what does is having things rammed down my throat
If there were campaigns for ‘straight’ people there would be hell on

Btw saw the Craig Bellamy piece and as much of a kitson he is, I couldn’t help but think he was very articulate and well spoken
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: Katesby on November 23, 2017, 08:25:03 pm
:thumbdown:

Expand?
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: IDM on November 23, 2017, 08:32:50 pm
A footballer is a footballer, end of, as far as I am concerned..

Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: drfchound on November 23, 2017, 08:40:26 pm
Doesn’t bother me but what does is having things rammed down my throat
If there were campaigns for ‘straight’ people there would be hell on

Btw saw the Craig Bellamy piece and as much of a kitson he is, I couldn’t help but think he was very articulate and well spoken




Had to chuckle at the first sentence in your post.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: NickDRFC on November 23, 2017, 08:53:52 pm
Doesn’t bother me but what does is having things rammed down my throat
If there were campaigns for ‘straight’ people there would be hell on

Btw saw the Craig Bellamy piece and as much of a kitson he is, I couldn’t help but think he was very articulate and well spoken

Difference is that straight people haven't been persecuted for years...

It wouldn't bother me but there's no way they would escape abuse initially. You'd hope that any homophobic abuse would be stamped out though and once one footballer comes out I would have thought a few more would follow. I can't see it happening for a few years yet though.

Incidentally, is it just me or are there fewer gay-related jibes these days at games? 15 years ago every long haired player on the opposition team would be greeted with "rent boy, rent boy" as soon as he went down injured but I can't remember the last time I heard something like that?
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: Bessie Red on November 23, 2017, 09:07:19 pm
I'm reckon we have probably already conceded a last minute goal scored by a gay player although we just dont know he is gay. And that is where I stand on the debate ie why do we need to know the sexuality of footballers, I really couldnt care less.

That doesn't narrow it down much!
My point is why do people always need to know the sexuality of someone in the public eye. It just doesnt matter in this day & age so why debate it!! Personally I couldnt give a flying f@ck who they are sleeping with.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: RedJ on November 23, 2017, 09:08:09 pm
With the amount coloured football boots these days on display Im beginning to think it’s a subliminal signal being sent out that gay players are already out there.

Christ, I hope this is just a shit joke, otherwise a ridiculous comment.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: drfchound on November 23, 2017, 09:24:07 pm
In the music and tv/ enetainment business it seems as though being gay is the way to be to get on and do well.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: Katesby on November 23, 2017, 09:35:24 pm
In the music and tv/ enetainment business it seems as though being gay is the way to be to get on and do well.

You're making it sound as though it's an option/life choice.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: CrippyCooke on November 23, 2017, 09:40:30 pm
Anyone who has an issue with a player's sexuality is in a very sad place.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: drfchound on November 23, 2017, 09:46:41 pm
In the music and tv/ enetainment business it seems as though being gay is the way to be to get on and do well.

You're making it sound as though it's an option/life choice.





Ha, I am not tying to do anything except say how it appears to be in my view.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on November 23, 2017, 10:02:21 pm
It does not matter one jot. Who cares. If the first thought that comes in to someones mind when the said player scored, is about his sexuality, then they have a problem!
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: DonnyOsmond on November 23, 2017, 10:11:46 pm
They did a study a year or so back and 8% of fans said they'd stop supporting their team if they signed a homosexual player. Embarrassing stuff.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: CrippyCooke on November 23, 2017, 10:14:22 pm
In the music and tv/ enetainment business it seems as though being gay is the way to be to get on and do well.

You're making it sound as though it's an option/life choice.


Ha, I am not tying to do anything except say how it appears to be in my view.

Drivel.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on November 23, 2017, 10:18:24 pm
Clearly people would shout abuse and would use it as a form of what they call 'banter'. Yep it's wrong and I wouldn't do it.

However is it any different to abuse for being ginger, or a woman or Scottish?  Hard to know, abuse is abuse are any better than others?

Would I care if any of our players were gay? Not one bit. Have I got gay friends who watch football every week home and away? Yep I have and they're just football fans, sexuality is irrelevant.

In 2017 that it's a topic of conversation is a shame, it really should not matter.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: Draytonian III on November 23, 2017, 10:27:45 pm
It's 2017, who cares what people are, I bet everyone on this forum knows at least one gay person. Times have changed as soon as the first player says that he is gay others will follow suit and within 2 or 3 years nobody will raise the issue. Who cares.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: idler on November 23, 2017, 10:36:32 pm
They did a study a year or so back and 8% of fans said they'd stop supporting their team if they signed a homosexual player. Embarrassing stuff.
So that means 92% are ok with it.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 23, 2017, 10:39:03 pm
They did a study a year or so back and 8% of fans said they'd stop supporting their team if they signed a homosexual player. Embarrassing stuff.

Doesn't surprise me. That kind of bigoted attitude is dying out but not as fast as one would like.

30 years ago, there were people who subtracted the goals scored by John Barnes when England played because they didn't count. I remember grown men shouting "Ain't no black in the Union Jack" at Rufus Brevett and Mark Rankine.

That sort of attitude is incomprehensible today. There's only a tiny percentage of fans who would be bigoted against gay players today. It's best to ignore them and let them slowly die out.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: Scooter on November 23, 2017, 10:42:25 pm
I have heard reports of gay players playing for premier league clubs. When they go to a red carpet event that are photographed with a female model on their arm and their male partner is inside the building away from the press.
It shouldn’t matter about a players nationality, race or sexuality if he plays well for our club he becomes a hero or legend if he doesn’t play well he is just labelled as shit

I also read the report that a percentage of fans would stop watching their club if they had a gay player. What a load of b*llocks.

Would anyone on here stop watching Rovers if Copps came out as gay? (I’m not saying he is before people overreact)
The answer is a big fat No!

Just need a few players to come out, the media will get over excited and then it will settle down
There will be some comments from fans but we have a more tolerant society compared to some of our Eastern European friends
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: ck-rtid on November 23, 2017, 10:44:19 pm
Couldn't care less, we are all human, we all bleed red, we all die in the end, just be happy. I have gay friends some who i served with in the army, no one was bothered then either, just treated like normal as they should be
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: anne honemous on November 23, 2017, 10:45:07 pm
The problem is that any player coming out would make themselves a target for potty-mouthed bigots in the stands and even certain dressing rooms.

They would be tagged as a gay footballer rather than a footballer who happens to be gay.

A player would either have to be exceptionally brave or completely stupid to come out during their career. Why would you take the risk of exposing yourself to potential hostility in an already powder-keg environment?

If it was common knowledge about who the gay/bisexual footballers are in this country, then maybe the situation would be different.

But there'd always be abusive comments/jokes/banter, just as there is about every taboo subject and like there has been for years.

Things can change quickly in football as well, which doesn't help this matter.

For example, a club could sign a few bad eggs which could upset the dynamic of a dressing room who are supportive towards a gay player. Or, after a bad run of results, the club could change manager and you could get a new manager who doesn't want that gay player in his team.

If a player wants to come out, they'd be much more sensible doing it after retirement like Thomas Hitzelsperger.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: since-1969 on November 23, 2017, 10:57:57 pm
:thumbdown:

Expand?
It’s about perception . Either you give S**t or don’t . I do believe it should remain private and I think players will not flourish until it’s no longer a point of discussion or contested by opinions.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: Chris Black come back on November 23, 2017, 11:01:33 pm
Personally, I could not care less. How folk choose to live their life is their business. What happens on pitch is what matters.

I also think that times have moved on and most folk would equally not be bothered. Few backward folk maybe but very, very few.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: roversontheup on November 23, 2017, 11:03:36 pm
I think part of the problem now is that it has all been blown out of proportion. It has become such a talking point in mens football. Fans discuss it, papers and magazines write about it, and television broadcast programmes about it. It sometimes seems the whole country is waiting for a pro footballer to come out as gay.

I can't wait for the day when someone, or preferably many players do come out. The the game can really tackle any homophobic abuse.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: RoversAlias on November 23, 2017, 11:19:42 pm
However is it any different to abuse for being ginger, or a woman or Scottish?  Hard to know, abuse is abuse are any better than others?

I hear sexist comments shouted when there are female assistant referees at games, or if the One Call girls walk past the stand etc. and those kind of comments make me shake my head just as much as a homophobic jibe would. There's just no need for it in this day and age.

I do think that if a player came out as gay there would be abuse, but I would like to think that would die down and hopefully become as badly viewed by the wider crowd as someone making a racist comment would. These things take time in society unfortunately and until a player actually does it I don't think we're going to know quite how football as a sport would react to it.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: RedJ on November 23, 2017, 11:34:00 pm
Bit different but Robbie Rogers (ex Leeds, LA Galaxy) came out as gay. Sad that he chose to retire virtually immediately afterwards, but since came back from retirement to play in MLS. I wonder what type of abuse he got before he jacked it in last year.

You'd have to think his career would've continued beyond 30 as well if he'd not outed himself.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: DMnumber4 on November 24, 2017, 10:53:03 am
Any footballer coming out as gay would surely baulk at the amount of media attention it would get, never mind parochial abuse from supporters.

Maybe if everyone backed off a little and didn't see so much "need" for it then the players (there will be more than one of the 2,000 professionals we have in the Football League) can come out whenever.

Sad indictment of football is that in cricket (Steven Davies), rugby league (Keegan Hirst) and rugby union (Gareth Thomas and Nigel Owens) no one bats an eyelid.


*As a footnote, there doesn't seem to be a pro male tennis or golfer that is gay, where's the clamour there?
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: since-1969 on November 24, 2017, 11:11:11 am
Why make comment at all , let’s face the law has come of age and it should now be of no ones concern as it is a personnel matter and prejudice and bigotry are unlawful . Your opinion is to be kept to yourself and your views made obsolete. Religion and it’s views have brought into line with common thinking and for those who feel caught up in  media attention are free to relax and gain confidence that it’s unexceptable to voice or show distaste at what was ones viewed  as lewd and improper behavior. I think it’s now become a non subject and it’s spot light should be extinguished for all time . Live and let be those who only want to get on with their lives .
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: VivaRovers on November 24, 2017, 11:21:37 am
It's encouraging to see so many people saying that it wouldn't bother them at all, shows a significant shift in attitudes from say, 10 years ago.

I think the reason why a current professional coming out matters is what it would mean for any young aspiring footballers who are gay, and as such may currently choose not to pursue the career and the sport because it's seen as an area that isn't for them as there is still seen to be a stigma in the sport about being gay. People need role models that they can identify with.

Incidentally, it's interesting how it is viewed completely differently in the women's game where scored of top football professionals are openly gay, including the previous England captain.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: drfchound on November 24, 2017, 12:34:07 pm
In the music and tv/ enetainment business it seems as though being gay is the way to be to get on and do well.

You're making it sound as though it's an option/life choice.


Ha, I am not tying to do anything except say how it appears to be in my view.

Drivel.




Not drivel at all mate.

Just pointing out that in the entertainment industry people there are lots of people who are openly gay and are propelling their careers forward off the back of it.
Look at how many people make sure that people are aware that they are gay and make jokes about it.

The point was being made to show how it is a polar opposite to the football world.

Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on November 24, 2017, 02:51:59 pm
In the music and tv/ enetainment business it seems as though being gay is the way to be to get on and do well.

You're making it sound as though it's an option/life choice.


Ha, I am not tying to do anything except say how it appears to be in my view.

Drivel.




Not drivel at all mate.

Just pointing out that in the entertainment industry people there are lots of people who are openly gay and are propelling their careers forward off the back of it.
Look at how many people make sure that people are aware that they are gay and make jokes about it.

The point was being made to show how it is a polar opposite to the football world.



Presumably if it's such a benefit to their careers then there would be lots of straight people in the entertainment industry claiming they're gay to further their career?
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: drfchound on November 24, 2017, 03:11:54 pm
In the music and tv/ enetainment business it seems as though being gay is the way to be to get on and do well.

You're making it sound as though it's an option/life choice.


Ha, I am not tying to do anything except say how it appears to be in my view.

Drivel.




Not drivel at all mate.

Just pointing out that in the entertainment industry people there are lots of people who are openly gay and are propelling their careers forward off the back of it.
Look at how many people make sure that people are aware that they are gay and make jokes about it.

The point was being made to show how it is a polar opposite to the football world.



Presumably if it's such a benefit to their careers then there would be lots of straight people in the entertainment industry claiming they're gay to further their career?





Not quite the way i was intending it to be read but i guess someone might twist things a bit.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: NickDRFC on November 24, 2017, 03:57:51 pm
Hound, I'm not sure that showbusiness has much relevance to football in this case as they are completely different industries. It's certainly less taboo and more socially acceptable to be out in entertainment, but if you look back that wasn't really the case even fairly recently - George Michael didn't come out until he'd left Wham, Elton John was married etc. Now I don't know how much of this was down to stigma but I'd imagine at least part of it.

Being gay in that line of work obviously isn't an issue anymore (not that I'd agree it's an advantage - would Adele, for example, have sold more records if she was a lesbian? I doubt it) and maybe in years to come we'll see a number of openly gay footballers. I think it would just take one (extremely brave) man to do it and then several would follow within the next few years.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: Mike_F on November 24, 2017, 04:03:45 pm

Would anyone on here stop watching Rovers if Copps came out as gay?


If Copps came out as gay I don't think there's a Rovers fan alive who'd refuse him a go on their starfish!
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: 5minstogo on November 24, 2017, 09:26:20 pm

Would anyone on here stop watching Rovers if Copps came out as gay?


If Copps came out as gay I don't think there's a Rovers fan alive who'd refuse him a go on their starfish!

Put me down for double helpings 👍
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: Copps is Magic on November 24, 2017, 11:12:45 pm
I've fantasised about it so many times sometimes I think it's already happened.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: Jonathan on November 25, 2017, 01:57:00 pm
It’s an interesting discussion point.

It really shouldn’t matter at all, and principally I agree with those that say it doesn’t matter and they really couldn’t care less about a footballer’s sexuality. Personally I’m not interested at all and it has nothing to do with the game.

But it does matter, and there’s a reason why gay footballers evidently don’t feel comfortable with being open about it. Would you want to be the football player that had cameras pointing in their face - not because of their ability, character, achievements or anything they’ve done, but simply because of who they’re attracted to? I don’t think I would. It’s totally unfair and unnecessary, but I think that’s why gay footballers seemingly feel the need to hide their lives away.

I don’t think a few throwaway shouts from the terraces are necessarily the issue, they happen anyway irrespective of race, sexuality or anything else. It’s the 8% (you’d hope that is not truly representative, but honestly I don’t know) that say they would stop supporting their club for fielding a gay player that are the real problem, and they’ll be stirred by the media fanfare.

It’s all well and good for us to say we’re not bothered. But some people clearly still are and discrimination does still exist. It’s a shame.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: i_ateallthepies on November 25, 2017, 02:20:59 pm
That's a fair point Jonathan, and speculating on how that 8% factor might further inhibit a gay footballer from coming out, he may fear for his career prospects if it were shown to reduce takings on the gate.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: WheatleyRover on November 25, 2017, 04:05:29 pm
People can do what they want, but can we please stop with all this politically correct bs, nobody can speak there mind anymore  social engineering at its finest
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on November 25, 2017, 04:17:25 pm
People can do what they want, but can we please stop with all this politically correct bs, nobody can speak there mind anymore  social engineering at its finest

What's the 'politcally correct bs' regarding the subject of this thread?
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: Donny Dub on November 25, 2017, 05:10:56 pm
I'm reckon we have probably already conceded a last minute goal scored by a gay player although we just dont know he is gay. And that is where I stand on the debate ie why do we need to know the sexuality of footballers, I really couldnt care less.

We don’t need to know do we, can’t we just leave it like this?
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: RedJ on November 25, 2017, 05:38:50 pm
People can do what they want, but can we please stop with all this politically correct bs, nobody can speak there mind anymore  social engineering at its finest

Yer, them gret jessie arse bandits can do what they want behind closed doors. :silly:
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 25, 2017, 05:46:00 pm
Wheatley.

Who’s stopping you saying what you want?
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: RoversAlias on November 25, 2017, 07:11:50 pm
People can do what they want, but can we please stop with all this politically correct bs, nobody can speak there mind anymore  social engineering at its finest

This thread has been a good, mature discussion so not sure what you're referring to here?
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: roversontheup on November 25, 2017, 07:44:53 pm
I understand when people say they don’t need or want to know a players sexuality and that we should just leave it as it is but there is another aspect to consider. Until this is all brought out into the open by pro footballer/s coming out in public and then over time made into a non issue by football and media those closet footballers have to live their lives in secret and in fear of being outed. Not able to live a normal life with their partners.
That is a terrible indictment of the football industry in 21st century.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: anne honemous on November 25, 2017, 08:04:54 pm
I understand when people say they don’t need or want to know a players sexuality and that we should just leave it as it is but there is another aspect to consider. Until this is all brought out into the open by pro footballer/s coming out in public and then over time made into a non issue by football and media those closet footballers have to live their lives in secret and in fear of being outed. Not able to live a normal life with their partners.
That is a terrible indictment of the football industry in 21st century.

I don't think it helps that 'being gay' has a certain stereotype attached to it by some sections of society such as a 'gay accent' and being overly effeminate towards others, or dressing a certain way.

If there was to be a gay footballer come out then I'd be 100% cast iron certain they won't fit the above stereotype and they would just want to be a footballer who happens to be gay, rather than 'the gay footballer' which is the tag they'd inevitably get labelled with.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: RedJ on November 25, 2017, 08:14:23 pm
Wheatley.

Who’s stopping you saying what you want?
The "lefties" and or/PC Brigade no doubt.
Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: One_Matty_Lucas on November 25, 2017, 10:08:52 pm
With the amount coloured football boots these days on display Im beginning to think it’s a subliminal signal being sent out that gay players are already out there.

Stuck-in-1969...

Title: Re: A discussion between adults.. A gay footballer
Post by: Mustapha-Dump on December 01, 2017, 09:52:50 am
Thank you to everybody who participated in this thread, I found it very interesting reading through all the replies, even the ones I didn’t agree with. This was never supposed to turn into an argument or even a debate really I just wanted to see what different reactions people would have, thank you to all!