Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: bobjimwilly on November 29, 2017, 03:30:13 pm
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42166663
:facepalm:
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Is anyone honestly surprised? I know this term has lost all meaning in politics because it's thrown around a lot when it really shouldn't be, but the man is legitimately stupid.
He's spent 70 years working in dictatorships, where he's never been questioned because he's always had more money and power than the people he deals with. He isn't going to just unlearn all that because of some pesky notion of democracy.
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is it stupidity or senility? Either one bodes nothing but ill for the world.
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is it stupidity or senility? Either one bodes nothing but ill for the world.
I get the impression it's just sheer bloodymindedness.
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It's definitely stupidity. He can barely read, can't really speak, has no ability to think on his feet whatsoever so he throws out the crappest lies you'll ever hear. He's never worked a day in his life and never had to learn a thing, because of his grotesque inherited wealth.
He makes Dubya look like the greatest statesman in history.
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It’s absolutely not stupidity. It’s all part of a plan that he has developed and perfected under the guidance of Bannon.
He doesn’t give a shite who he pisses off, what aggression he causes, who might end up getting killed by the passions that he stirs.
It’s all about convincing enough people that he shares their bigotry, that the bigotry is OK and that the so-called “liberals” are their enemy.
Do that well enough and he might get a big enough constituency supporting him to be able to survive anything that Mueller can throw at him.
Outraged people expressing outrage is precisely the response he wants. It entrenches opinions among his supporters.
Don’t forget this is a man who has:
Admitted to being a sex offender.
Admitted that he fired the head of the FBI because he was investigating Trump’s alleged wrongdoings.
Deliberately picked a fight with the mayor of the capital city of his country’s closest ally after a major terrorist outrage.
Failed to pass any significant legislation in 11 months despite controlling both houses of Congress.
Been demonstrated time and again beyond any doubt to lie about anything from the trivial to the gravest international issues.
...and STILL nearly 40% of Americans approve of his performance.
f**k knows what the answer is. People like this only come along once a century or so. And it usually doesn’t end well.
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Agree with your summation of his character Billy. I said he would be gone by new year - getting closer with no change yet unfortunately?
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I think it’s touch and go whether he’ll still be here by Xmas next year. It’ll take that long for Mueller to put his case together. Then it’s up to Congress. If the Republicans still control it after the mid-session and Trump’s ratings are still high enough, they’ll support him.
Morality is out the window on the Republican side. It’s all about beating the Democrats any way they can. Look at the Alabama Republican elected officials last week who said that, even if Roy Moore is a predatory paedophile who abused 14 year old girls, people should still vote for him because the alternative is a Democrat Senator.
Read that again.
Absorb it.
And realise how far through the looking glass Trump’s Republican Party is.
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I would say impeachment is still fairly unlikely, but if any President in history was to be successfully impeached, it'd surely be Trump. I think what is more likely is he just gets bored, wanders off and quits.
I disagree with one point BST - you say he hasn't achieved anything in 11 months. Well, today he managed to make the British public feel sympathy for Theresa May after his Twitter attack last night. Let that one sink in for a minute. Even his mate Farage has criticised him for this latest outburst.
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Do you think he knew that Teresa May was in an Islamic country when he retweeted these, or do you think he neither knew nor cared?
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If he didn’t have his finger hovering over the big button you could write this off as a very poor sitcom (from the 70’s)
Seriously think someone will take him out soon - then again it would probably prove his point
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If he didn’t have his finger hovering over the big button you could write this off as a very poor sitcom (from the 70’s)
Seriously think someone will take him out soon - then again it would probably prove his point
Just after the seventies (1982) but definitely not a poor sitcom, as it was written by the fantastic Marshall & Renwick:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D5q1ZyMpFo
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Oh my gosh, so much stuff here to talk about. Agree with a lot of what is written here and interestingly just read that they are thinking he has dementia, as Jucy suggests. This could have a grain of truth or it could be a convenient excuse for his erratic and egomaniacal behavior, and possibly some of both. We have seen, like Billy says, that he loves to stir the pot no matter the outcome, as song as his name is in the news every day. He doesn’t care about the big picture at all which is terrifying. He is now close to passing a new tax reform, which of course favors the rich, but since most of Congress are Republicans (known for being richer, believing in trickle-down economics), may get through his first accomplishment of his admin. Also, the stock market is at its highest ever! So does the Congress with no conscience back the lunatic president and/or derail the Russia investigation or back Muller’s findings? I know I’m thinking for former, sadly!!
Also worrying on the world stage is his yes, Russian contacts. Yes I do believe Putin has something on him, along with huge bank loans to him during the last economic crisis when he couldn’t get loans from US banks, but also I’m reading now that Russia is behind large amount of drugs being produced in Russia, synthetic opioids, fentenyl and some thing else I can’t remember and is sending it into our country through the largely unchecked Canadian border. But looking at Putin’s possibly grand scheme, might it be a good way to destabilize a country (in addition to spreading ‘fake news’) by diving and ruining the country morally and economically through uncontrolled drug use? So if you really want to think about a possible big picture for Putin think about his possible role in Brexit with fake news breaking up the EU, breaking up America and is a way to create a wedge whereby he can possible somehow gain a foothold in both places. Or am I reading too many spy books?? Please say I am!
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Hi Ruth.
if you want an insight into what Putin has on Trump, this is the place to be reading.
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
It's heavy going. He's a Law Professor and ex-prosecuter. He has systematically and clinically put together the threads of evidence. Who was where, when. Who said what to whom. Who has demonstrably lied. Who did/said what immediately after meeting whom.
I try to put aside 15 mins every night to catch up on his latest threads. The Press have recently started cottoning onto to the apparent fact that this guy has a better handle on the ins and outs than probably anyone other than Mueller. If Abramson's stuff is correct (and it's so flawlessly put together that I can't see how it can't be) then Mueller has more than enough threads to string Trump up and have him impeached. It's a case now of a) Mueller doing his job thoroughly and b) the politics of the Republican Party vs the strength of the US Constitution.
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Bloody Hell! And As I was writing that, it's just flashed up that Flynn is being charged.
Abramson said this was coming several weeks ago. He even pretty much predicted when it would happen. Read this ongoing twitter thread to see what his take is on the importance of this news.
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/936602442996813824
Especially posts 8 & 9.
Remember, Trump fired Comey precisely because he was coming down hard on Flynn. Trump asked Comey several times to go easy on Flynn. That can only mean that Flynn has (as Abramson says) incriminating evidence on Trump. If Flynn really has cut a deal with Mueller to get a reduced sentence in turn for helping Mueller, this could well be the start of the end for Trump.
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It really baffles me how the American right, who normally are so fond of frothing, far-fetched conspiracy theories involving their own Government, are now steadfastly refusing to accept that the Trump campaign committed any wrongdoing despite the mounting evidence.
Clinton was a dire candidate, but look at all the bizarre theories the Right was willing to believe about her, with not a shred of evidence. Yet we now have swivel eyed, fervent American patriots waving Russian flags at Trump rallies as a show of support despite the mountains of evidence already. I cannot wrap my head around the mindset of that part of America.
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20 years of Fox News pumping lies and ambiguities into people's heads. It adds up.
It adds up to an environment where truth is out the window, and all that matters is whether someone is on our side or the other one. If they're on our side, we'll ignore every scrap of negative information about them and believe every piece of positive news.
It is truly terrifying, the job that Murdoch has done over the years.
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Thanks for the links Andy, these are amazing. I will follow him on twitter. Fingers crossed that this Flynn charge is the start of something bigger, but the WH is already down playing it. Time will tell.
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I watched Question Time last night and the whole panel and the entire audience abhorred those tweets of Trump.
I was surprised that they have not yet been found to be fake. The panel never discussed this possibility nor did they find their content disturbing especially if they originated in Britain.
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I watched Question Time last night and the whole panel and the entire audience abhorred those tweets of Trump.
I was surprised that they have not yet been found to be fake. The panel never discussed this possibility nor did they find their content disturbing especially if they originated in Britain.
The Dutch authorities have already said the one described as a migrant attacking someone on crutches was a Dutch national born and raised in the Netherlands and isn't a migrant in any way. They've also already been prosecuted and punished.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/m_tisserand/status/936360381529886720
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20 years of Fox News pumping lies and ambiguities into people's heads. It adds up.
It adds up to an environment where truth is out the window, and all that matters is whether someone is on our side or the other one. If they're on our side, we'll ignore every scrap of negative information about them and believe every piece of positive news.
It is truly terrifying, the job that Murdoch has done over the years.
On that topic.
https://www.alternet.org/story/154875/the_science_of_fox_news%3A_why_its_viewers_are_the_most_misinformed
The evilness of that bas**rd can hardly be overstated. He’s made hundreds of millions out of keeping people deliberately misinformed for political ends. I’ve got a bottle on ice for the day he croaks it.
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You’re going off the Brexit topic a little there Billy.
Your article and comments denigrate Murdoch and Fox News accusing him of suppressing news but surely the most dangerous issue these days are the lies that are published, the Fake news and biased reporting and you need go no further than your own BBC to be subject to that.
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DD
Let me get this straight. Are you saying that the BBC misinforms its watchers like Fox News does?
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DD
Let me get this straight. Are you saying that the BBC misinforms its watchers like Fox News does?
No I’m saying that both alternately promote and suppress news according to their political ideology. I would not accuse either of deliberately lying to their audience. Misinformation if deliberate is fake news, it may however happen retrospectively as more information comes to light. Entirely dirfferent scenarios.
Fake news is lying but misinformation
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DD
No news organisation can broadcast every available piece of information. There’s too much. So they inevitably have to make editorial decisions. If that’s what you mean by “promoting and suppressing” news then of course you are right.
If you think the BBC deliberately and consistently promotes a particular political angle in its editorial decisions, then I think you’re away with the fairies. It’s far from perfect but the BBC busts a gut to provide views from different sides of a debate. That’s where it is totally different tobFox. Fox deliberately and consistently highlights news stories, or aspects of news stories which are helpful to the right wing of the Republican Party. By no objective criteria can you judge the BBC to do that.
Or if you can, give me some evidence.
PS.
Evidence on Fox. I’ve just checked the front page of Fox News’s website. The first SIX stories are all ones which either downplay the importance of Flynn’s prosecution, or highlight small (and quickly corrected) mistakes in another media organisation’s reporting of the case, or simply and uncritically quote Trump’s denials if wrongdoing. It has links to two opinion pieces entitled:
“Did Flynn or Trump transition team violate Logan Act? No.”
And
“Flynn-sanity and why post-Election diplomacy is different than (sic) collusion.”
You will never EVER see that sort of editorialising from the BBC News.
And there’s not a single piece educating the viewers on what the really important aspects of yesterday’s news are. Namely:
1) If Flynn has done nothing wrong in speaking to the Russian ambassador, why did he lie about it when asked by the FBI?
and
2) Why has Flynn now turned State Evidence?
As I say, Murdoch deliberately and consistently chooses to keep his viewers and readers ignorant of things which viewers and readers of other outlets hear about. The man is scum and we’ll be a better civilisation without him.
Correction. They DO have an article about point 1. It’s entitled:
“Trump laments Flynn's lies to FBI about Russia contacts: 'There was nothing to hide!'”
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Well, it’s all falling apart faster than I anticipated.
The best advice you can take if you’re bang to Rights on something is “stay silent - let them work to prove you’re guilty.”
Or, if you’re a narcissistic ego manic with the self-control of a child who’s drunk a bottle of Aldi tomato ketchup, you can go on Twitter and admit to the entire world that you actively conspired to deceive the FBI.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/12/02/trumps-first-tweet-about-michael-flynns-guilty-plea-could-be-a-problem-for-him/?utm_term=.e10e344d1f77
In any sane world, that’s game set and match.
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he wud definitely win 1st prize in a daft pillock competition
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Well, it’s all falling apart faster than I anticipated.
The best advice you can take if you’re bang to Rights on something is “stay silent - let them work to prove you’re guilty.”
Or, if you’re a narcissistic ego manic with the self-control of a child who’s drunk a bottle of Aldi tomato ketchup, you can go on Twitter and admit to the entire world that you actively conspired to deceive the FBI.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/12/02/trumps-first-tweet-about-michael-flynns-guilty-plea-could-be-a-problem-for-him/?utm_term=.e10e344d1f77
In any sane world, that’s game set and match.
I am loving this, but I still get nervous because it seems he gets away with anything because he just lies and denies it and nothing happens! Nothing ever happens!
And re: Seth Abramson, I did read a lot of his tweets and I’m thinking someone on Mullers team may be leaking him stuff they want explained so people will understand exactly what is happening and what it means legally. I am fascinated by it.
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I doubt Mueller is leaking. I think Abramson is just one of those people who underpins civilisation. He’s professional, highly intelligent and dogged. And driven to save his country from a criminal.
Back to Trump’s tweet - this is a colossal mistake. He’s now admitted that he knew IN FEBRUARY that Flynn had committed a Federal crime. But in March and April, he repeatedly asked the head of the FBI not to investigate Flynn. That is clear obstruction of justice, which is an impeachable offence.
I’m sure there’ll be dissembling and corrections spewed out, but he’s just painted himself into a corner. It was inevitable.
By the way. Not a single word about this tweet on Fox News front page...
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Well, it’s all falling apart faster than I anticipated.
The best advice you can take if you’re bang to Rights on something is “stay silent - let them work to prove you’re guilty.”
Or, if you’re a narcissistic ego manic with the self-control of a child who’s drunk a bottle of Aldi tomato ketchup, you can go on Twitter and admit to the entire world that you actively conspired to deceive the FBI.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/12/02/trumps-first-tweet-about-michael-flynns-guilty-plea-could-be-a-problem-for-him/?utm_term=.e10e344d1f77
In any sane world, that’s game set and match.
Just caught with that this morning. It looks as though Trump has handed Mueller the smoking gun he was looking for.
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And so the dissembling begins. Claims flying around that Trump’s lawyer wrote the tweet and made a mistake.
It’s like that moment on Road Runner where Wile E Coyote runs off the edge of the cliff but takes a couple of seconds to realise the gravity of the situation.
And Fox?
Nearly 24 hours after the President of the USA publicly admitted an impeachable offence, there is not a single word of that on their website.
The millions of Americans who get their news only from Murdoch are being deliberately insulated from that. What they have as the headline story instead is this.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/03/mueller-aide-fired-for-anti-trump-texts-now-facing-review-for-role-in-clinton-email-probe.html
So, when impeachment or resignation come, as one or the other surely will, the Fox customers will be incandescent at the injustice done to their hero. Who they believe to have done nothing wrong. Because the things he does wrong are never reported to them.
DD. Stop and have a think why Murdoch hates the BBC and uses every single one of his media outlets in this country to push an anti-BBC line and demand cuts in BBC funding. Think who that would benefit. And what the result would be.
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I doubt Mueller is leaking. I think Abramson is just one of those people who underpins civilisation. He’s professional, highly intelligent and dogged. And driven to save his country from a criminal.
Back to Trump’s tweet - this is a colossal mistake. He’s now admitted that he knew IN FEBRUARY that Flynn had committed a Federal crime. But in March and April, he repeatedly asked the head of the FBI not to investigate Flynn. That is clear obstruction of justice, which is an impeachable offence.
I’m sure there’ll be dissembling and corrections spewed out, but he’s just painted himself into a corner. It was inevitable.
By the way. Not a single word about this tweet on Fox News front page...
You’re probably right that Muller would not leak info. They just recently explained the reason they let two of their team go was because they had participated in anti Trump tweets. So it appears they are being very careful and doing everything by the book.
I can’t wait for this to completely roll out and the light comes on for people. Currently he is actively attacking the FBI and Comey. He is like Chuckie from Friday the 13th, he just keeps coming, unstoppable with wild eyes and a hatchet.