Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: selby on December 18, 2017, 11:10:13 am
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Another new ground for me, and looks like a difficult place to go.
Only Wigan and Shrewsbury, the top two have won more than their 7 home wins, and only Rotherham have scored more than their 21 goals in home matches.
They have lost 4 home games 1 more than ourselves, but have not drawn a game all season home or away, but their defence has let in 45 goals in 22 matches.
So, will we be able to score? can we keep a clean sheet?
Would you make any changes?
And a big question,what is the traffic likely to be the weekend before Christmas?
Over to you.
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Wonder if Butler will be fit for this game he looked to be holding his groin for a good while after slipping as Oldham scored.
COYR
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I'm not sure we can make that many changes, Selby? Copps may be back in and hopefully Matty Blair (we really missed him last Saturday). That would mean Beestin to the bench and possibly May. Depends on what formation the manager goes with.
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Glosterred, it would be a big blow if he is out next week, he has been with Wright, one of our stand out players this season, his best period of form since joining us.
Between them they have formed a formidable defensive pairing, against the Arsenal they were outstanding.
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Alan,apart from another disappointing end to the game, I thought we played O.K. and would not make many changes. The defence played well across the back, and were not troubled that much apart from a couple of flurries that you would expect.
Beestin visibly tired in the last quarter, and we could have possibly played Mandeville deeper,with one up front (Marquis) but that is hindsight.
Beestin would have been the one I subbed and Alfie who had run himself out, apart from Coppinger if fit coming into the side I would be happy to leave it as last week.
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It is a funny old game, the Bristol Rovers supporters on their forum are complaining about how their three young loanees from premiership teams have failed to impress this season.
Their management team have stated that they need to bring in more experienced players, who have played at this level before.
Maybe a few people are beginning to accept that many of the young starlets from academies are not the answer and a new approach to putting a team together is needed.
Or is it that the type of football played at this level is too agricultural?
A tough one to answer, as many of the youngsters have got great talent.
My answer would be to reintroduce proper reserve team football. There must be youngsters who are failing to make progress because league football is a step too far at so young an age, and their mistakes are not accepted so readily, because of their lack of experience against men.
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Garrett struggled on saturday , we need creativity down the flanks which was sadly missing .
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Bezza, he was up against a good winger, full of confidence who started off the game taking him on down the line( probably told to do so by good scouting prior to the game).
He got beaten twice in that period, and was not covered and backed up,so the winger had a one on one. But the lad has a bit of pace, and got back defensively and gradually got on top of the winger.
I was surprised when he was substituted as by then he was bossing the winger and looked solid.
I think we have a good player in the making, decent in the air, finds a man down the line, and puts in a decent cross. He needs a bit more confidence to get forward, but at his age he holds his own to me and will only get better. I will add that I criticized Mason more than anyone, but feel he is growing into the right back position and has done O.K. in the recent games, a slip at Oxford cost us,but others could have done better for that goal as well.
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My answer would be to reintroduce proper reserve team football. There must be youngsters who are failing to make progress because league football is a step too far at so young an age, and their mistakes are not accepted so readily, because of their lack of experience against men.
That is a great idea. Reserve Team Football such as the Central League was good to watch and provided a great stepping stone for younger Players making their way in the profession without being too widely scrutinised by virtue of the lesser Attendances and Press coverage to name but 2
These days it is all too easy for say Man City to loan out player after player to lower League Clubs with virtually no "risk" to themselves and "we" the lower Clubs are instructed to give them game time and if they are poor "we" suffer.
The parent Clubs can sit back and watch how they loanees are doing and if it is judged that they wont make the higher echelons of the Parent Club they are released - but of course if the Loan Player looks useful / very useful they return to the Parent Club and are loaned out again and then nurtured and scrutinised at a Team in a higher Division (or even the same Division as the Parent Club i.e. In the Prem)
Bring back Reserve Teams - yes - but I bet it will be economics / cost that will prevent it happening
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Used to love going to belle vue to watch the reserve games.somtime reasonable crowd.gave young players potential to shine and many times they came up against players at the end of their careers but who were still good footballers.
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... and I am sure Rovers were pioneers by introducing the North Midlands League though that may be my selective memory !
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I remember the North regional league in the 60s
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So does Copps!
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Totally agree Selby, Butler and Wright have been very good at the back this season, but I wouldn’t worry much if Butler did miss out and Baudry started. It would leave us very short of centre backs if either Baudry or Wright was subsequently to pick up another injury, especially coming up to a busy festive period.
COYR
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It will be your nearest game Glosterred is it not. I hope we put a show on for you and get a early Christmas win for you(easier at work Monday).
Knowing us we will probably give them their first draw of the season, their equaliser coming from an own goal back pass from the half way line in the 98th minute.
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Used to love going to belle vue to watch the reserve games.somtime reasonable crowd.gave young players potential to shine and many times they came up against players at the end of their careers but who were still good footballers.
It is staggering that Rovers reserves average home attendance in 1950-51 was 2748, with a highest of 6659 (post war boom and all that).
Also I went to a reserve game in 1963 when 2835 were present. Mind you it was Alick Jeffrey's first game back.
By comparison our first team has twice averaged less than 2000 in the Football League - once in 1987-88 in tier 3 - the level we are playing at now.
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Used to love going to belle vue to watch the reserve games.somtime reasonable crowd.gave young players potential to shine and many times they came up against players at the end of their careers but who were still good footballers.
Also I went to a reserve game in 1963 when 2835 were present. Mind you it was Alick Jeffrey's first game back.
Me too ... got his Autograph when he opened Players entrance and stepped out. Lots of people (who had gone to see ONLY him) did not move but me at 12 was "In like Flynn"
Its all change now as I would probably only spot Copps Andy B and Liam M if they were out and about
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I have a theory about older supporters remembering how their heroes looked when they were younger, and do not know the present players Woolfie.
We looked for the great things they did when we were younger,and were excited by them.
We watch for b*llocks now, and try to forget them.
Its called knowing a bit more as you get older, and thinking things were better when we were young.
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Used to love going to belle vue to watch the reserve games.somtime reasonable crowd.gave young players potential to shine and many times they came up against players at the end of their careers but who were still good footballers.
It is staggering that Rovers reserves average home attendance in 1950-51 was 2748, with a highest of 6659 (post war boom and all that).
Also I went to a reserve game in 1963 when 2835 were present. Mind you it was Alick Jeffrey's first game back.
By comparison our first team has twice averaged less than 2000 in the Football League - once in 1987-88 in tier 3 - the level we are playing at now.
In the 50s Rovers Reserves competed in the Midland League, usually against other teams' first XIs. The games were played on Saturday afternoons. The Reserves would usually be at home when the Rovers First Team was away.
As few fans travelled in those days, other than to FA Cup Ties or local derbies, watching the Reserves was the way you got your football fix for the week. Hence the decent crowds.
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I can remember watching Harry Gregg play for the reserves at B.V. when Ken Hardwick was keeping him out of the first team.
The Midland League was a great training ground for young players, I can remember my dad taking me to Peterborough who were a non league side then in the Midland League.
Dad was the referee that day, and the crowd seemed massive.
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And a big question,what is the traffic likely to be the weekend before Christmas?
Appalling. The obvious way to come is off the M32 at Junction 2 where there is a big Tesco and IKEA and head past them up the hill on Muller Road. Its busy enough on an ordinary weekend but is going to be manic on Saturday.
It may be worthwhile staying on the M5 and coming off at Junction 16 then following the A38 all the way to the ground. Its slower due to all the lights and roundabouts, but you will miss that Tesco/IKEA junction.
Loads of street parking off Muller Road or Kellaway Avenue.
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I can remember watching Harry Gregg play for the reserves at B.V. when Ken Hardwick was keeping him out of the first team.
The Midland League was a great training ground for young players, I can remember my dad taking me to Peterborough who were a non league side then in the Midland League.
Dad was the referee that day, and the crowd seemed massive.
Yes I agree and in fact in those days we had four streams .. Football League , Reserves in the Midland League .. a team of 18 - 20yr olds in the Alliance and an Under 18 side in the Northern Intermediate League . Plus of course Doncaster Boys who won the English Schools trophy in 1959. That was a development structure but my reflection looking back was that the coaching was poor and I know the lads who moved up from Donny boys to Rovers Intermediates were disappointed and few made the grade , in fact only Billings and Fairhurst .
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It will be your nearest game Glosterred is it not. I hope we put a show on for you and get a early Christmas win for you(easier at work Monday).
Knowing us we will probably give them their first draw of the season, their equaliser coming from an own goal back pass from the half way line in the 98th minute.
Not from Wheatley Hills it won’t be my nearest game, had the username for years from when I was living down in Gloucestershire
COYR
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I can remember watching Harry Gregg play for the reserves at B.V. when Ken Hardwick was keeping him out of the first team.
The Midland League was a great training ground for young players, I can remember my dad taking me to Peterborough who were a non league side then in the Midland League.
Dad was the referee that day, and the crowd seemed massive.
Yes I agree and in fact in those days we had four streams .. Football League , Reserves in the Midland League .. a team of 18 - 20yr olds in the Alliance and an Under 18 side in the Northern Intermediate League . Plus of course Doncaster Boys who won the English Schools trophy in 1959. That was a development structure but my reflection looking back was that the coaching was poor and I know the lads who moved up from Donny boys to Rovers Intermediates were disappointed and few made the grade , in fact only Billings and Fairhurst .
Fred Taylor?
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Glosterred, I don't know if it is an illusion broken, or I should be pleased you escaped back to gods own country.
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I agree with Gloster....... why change a long standing geographically based moniker just because you have moved ;)
Signed
A former resident of The Netherlands
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It is like the great escape, or did they get fed up of you talking about a team they had never heard of?
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I can remember watching Harry Gregg play for the reserves at B.V. when Ken Hardwick was keeping him out of the first team.
The Midland League was a great training ground for young players, I can remember my dad taking me to Peterborough who were a non league side then in the Midland League.
Dad was the referee that day, and the crowd seemed massive.
Yes I agree and in fact in those days we had four streams .. Football League , Reserves in the Midland League .. a team of 18 - 20yr olds in the Alliance and an Under 18 side in the Northern Intermediate League . Plus of course Doncaster Boys who won the English Schools trophy in 1959. That was a development structure but my reflection looking back was that the coaching was poor and I know the lads who moved up from Donny boys to Rovers Intermediates were disappointed and few made the grade , in fact only Billings and Fairhurst .
Grainge, that stat actually shows how hard it is for young footballers to break through into the pro ranks, and to stay there is even harder.
The two you mention, Billings and Fairhurst, only made 39 appearances between them over about four years in the early sixties before being let go.
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And a big question,what is the traffic likely to be the weekend before Christmas?
Appalling. The obvious way to come is off the M32 at Junction 2 where there is a big Tesco and IKEA and head past them up the hill on Muller Road. Its busy enough on an ordinary weekend but is going to be manic on Saturday.
It may be worthwhile staying on the M5 and coming off at Junction 16 then following the A38 all the way to the ground. Its slower due to all the lights and roundabouts, but you will miss that Tesco/IKEA junction.
Loads of street parking off Muller Road or Kellaway Avenue.
Solid advice :cool:
I'd definitely avoid J2 of the M32, it'll be chocca, and instead go J16 of M5 and down the A38 as suggested.
J1 of the M32 may be okay too, esp if you're coming along the westbound M4, then head along the dual carriageway of Filton Road and hang in a left down Filton Ave to the stadium.
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I can remember watching Harry Gregg play for the reserves at B.V. when Ken Hardwick was keeping him out of the first team.
The Midland League was a great training ground for young players, I can remember my dad taking me to Peterborough who were a non league side then in the Midland League.
Dad was the referee that day, and the crowd seemed massive.
Yes I agree and in fact in those days we had four streams .. Football League , Reserves in the Midland League .. a team of 18 - 20yr olds in the Alliance and an Under 18 side in the Northern Intermediate League . Plus of course Doncaster Boys who won the English Schools trophy in 1959. That was a development structure but my reflection looking back was that the coaching was poor and I know the lads who moved up from Donny boys to Rovers Intermediates were disappointed and few made the grade , in fact only Billings and Fairhurst .
Grainge, that stat actually shows how hard it is for young footballers to break through into the pro ranks, and to stay there is even harder.
The two you mention, Billings and Fairhurst, only made 39 appearances between them over about four years in the early sixties before being let go.
There were three more from the Intermediate team in those years , Barry Swallow , Ray Veale and Barry Staton .. the first two had decent creers , Barry with us then York City and Ray with us then Everton and then USA somewhere .A meagre crop though .As a ryder to all that , other clubs were actively recruiting in our area and in particular Wolves who had a thriving local academy and were members of the Northern Intermediate League and recruited three of my school mates from Thorne Grammar school ( a RUGBY only school)!.
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Wath Wanderers was the Wolves hotbed of talent
I have posted this a few times and here is some more info from a year or so back
Wolverhampton provided lots of Miners into the Donny / Barnsley areas along with many others from Durham Scotland and other areas with Mines. My own family of course came from there though I am a dyed in the wool first generation Tyke !
Wolves had a "nursery Club" in Wath Wanderers and as such produced / recruited many local Players for the parent club. I will look for the thread we did a while ago on Wath Wanderers
https://www.facebook.com/Wath-Wanderers-FC-1404875066418481/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blackcountry/content/articles/2005/04/25/wath_wanderers_feature.shtml
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I agree with Gloster....... why change a long standing geographically based moniker just because you have moved ;)
Signed
A former resident of The Netherlands
Although Irish Rover would have a certain ring to it!
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I was at TGS at the same time and know the three lads you are on about.
I bet we know each other.
PM time ?
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Well, I am one of the people that are very proud of the wide range of supporters, geographically spread around the world that our team attracts.
I would imagine that most, if not all are Doncastrians by birth, but were supporters of the club as youngsters.
To continue their support from afar is fantastic, more power to your elbow lads, think of it more as a crusade to spread the word, think of it this way, it will not be as hard as our penance at home, trying to educate uneducated Barnsley, Sheffield, and worst of all Leeds fans.
And a special thanks for reading some of my ramblings on my match threads, it looks like we will have to pay special attention to a lad called Bodin on Saturday.
Their supporters rate him highly, and expect him to attract big money in the transfer window.
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I agree with Gloster....... why change a long standing geographically based moniker just because you have moved ;)
Signed
A former resident of The Netherlands
Although Irish Rover would have a certain ring to it!
May I point out at this stage that my abbreviation DU does not mean I am a Democratic Unionist voter :lol:
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An important game tomorrow, against a team that realistically we should be near to with regard to a league position.
Harrison a big strong target man, and Bodin seem to be the main threats as far as goals are concerned, and the team in general look to be a strong big outfit.
One thing I hope we do not repeat is to put too much emphasis on the state of the pitch at Bristol. Fergie did that at Newport last season, talked about it all week,picked a team and played hoof ball, on a pitch that was far from as bad as we had made out, resulting in a draw that,in a period when we were by far the best team in the division cost us a potential two points, and probably the championship.
One thing of interest on their forums is the news that they organise a Christmas pastie party, I hope they include us in the festivities, and they are as good as the ones at Plymouth.
A very Happy Christmas to everyone, and a happy new year, a win tomorrow would be a good start here's hoping.
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Remember a guy called mick commons who used to train with wth with Wolves juniors.he was from highfields be in his late seventies now.was a good footballer.
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Come on lads, can we have an early Christmas present please.
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after Gillingham winning last night it puts us further down the table, would be nice to get a result today.
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Very tough game i think, even though they are not much further up the league than us.
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The day has been a long day, back in the house about 9-30 pm, but at least we have seen a game out at last, although after playing well in the first half and playing on the front foot, we started to sit deeper in the second half and invited pressure on our defence again.
I have seen the discussion on the two biggest talking points, our goal, and their disallowed goal.
I had a great view of both incidents from the back of the goal, Rowe shoved the ball past the defender, who put his leg across him as he burst through, and resulted in him going over the leg and his hip, in my view a definite penalty.
The interesting thing to me about their disallowed goal is the fact that our supporters who said it was not out of play, and they were in line with it must have been stood on the right hand side to my view from behind the goal.
Harrison was between those spectators when he played the ball obscuring their view, the lino who disallowed it was on the corner flag looking across directly at the ball down the goal line, he gave it out of play,and it looked well out of play from behind the goal to me, and the only Bristol players who objected at first were on the edge of our box. The right decision to me.
The supporters who did not think Mason took penalties obviously did not go to the Cheka Trade games, where he shelled a couple in in the shoot outs, it topped off his best game of the season, and was part of a very impressive back four in which all four players played very well.
Houghton had a terrific first half, and showed why Fergie is keen to sign him on a free, Marquis and Beestin played well, but hardly threatened to score, but worked hard across the line, Rowe being our biggest threat with his runs into the box.
The most pleasing thing was that it was more a good team effort than outstanding individual performances, the main thing was three points, now can we go back to back.
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The day has been a long day, back in the house about 9-30 pm, but at least we have seen a game out at last, although after playing well in the first half and playing on the front foot, we started to sit deeper in the second half and invited pressure on our defence again.
I have seen the discussion on the two biggest talking points, our goal, and their disallowed goal.
I had a great view of both incidents from the back of the goal, Rowe shoved the ball past the defender, who put his leg across him as he burst through, and resulted in him going over the leg and his hip, in my view a definite penalty.
The interesting thing to me about their disallowed goal is the fact that our supporters who said it was not out of play, and they were in line with it must have been stood on the right hand side to my view from behind the goal.
Harrison was between those spectators when he played the ball obscuring their view, the lino who disallowed it was on the corner flag looking across directly at the ball down the goal line, he gave it out of play,and it looked well out of play from behind the goal to me, and the only Bristol players who objected at first were on the edge of our box. The right decision to me.
The supporters who did not think Mason took penalties obviously did not go to the Cheka Trade games, where he shelled a couple in in the shoot outs, it topped off his best game of the season, and was part of a very impressive back four in which all four players played very well.
Houghton had a terrific first half, and showed why Fergie is keen to sign him on a free, Marquis and Beestin played well, but hardly threatened to score, but worked hard across the line, Rowe being our biggest threat with his runs into the box.
The most pleasing thing was that it was more a good team effort than outstanding individual performances, the main thing was three points, now can we go back to back.
Got to agree with that summary. I thought mason just shaded MOM ahead of Lawlor.
What took you so long to get home? I got back to my house up in the NE around 9:30
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Stockton, we got stuck in traffic for about an hour getting out of the ground travelling only about 1 mile in that time.
Forgot to mention the terrific match saving save by Lawlor, a fantastic save, thanks for reminding me.
I thought we should have put the game to bed when May totally ignored Rowe near the end when he was totally unmarked inside him in front of goal, but meaningful strikes at goal were a rare sight today at both ends.
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Fortunately we drove and parked away from the ground. Got away and onto motorway quite quickly and back at Donny by just after8. Then the final leg back up north.
Lawlor made a few decent saves, the free kick, a couple across him low down and he commanded his box well.