Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: selby on January 02, 2018, 11:29:52 am
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A funny game to call, against a team who are not having the best of seasons, but have been far from ne of the worst teams we have played this season, and have given us a hard time of it in all our three meetings this season, and cannot be taken lightly
Their only away victory has come in this cup against Slough, in the second round, after beating another non league side Bromley in the first round, both scores being 4=0
Will Coppinger return?
Will we make other changes after a busy Christmas period?
Can we carry on our recent improvement in form?
Will our home crowd keep up the recent improvement in attendence numbers?
One to keep an eye on for the scouts among us, Harrison McGahey, a young defender who has played centre half, and right wing back against us this season, and has won their M.O.M. 5 times this season including 2 in the 3 matches against us. Plays No6,looks comfortable on the ball, is a big unit, and is only 21 yrs old, and could cover a position/ positions we are not over blessed in, and I think is out of contract at the end of the season.
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I like Rochdale. They’ve got a lot of good footballers and try and play the right way. Similar to ourselves inexperience has done for them at times I think. Hope they stay up.
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I think there may be a couple of changes, I can see Marquis getting a rest but if Copps is fit, I would start him.
I think Fergie wants to field a strong side, but I think we have enough to make a few changes and still be a threat.
We don't play in the league until Jan 13th, against in-form Plymouth. After 4 games in 11 days that's quite a decent break..
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With prize money of £67,500 at stake and the chance to progress to draw a plum fixture in a later round, I would expect this fixture to be taken very seriously by both clubs, and after the second half of the last game over Christmas it could become a little fiesty.
Rochdale came out in the second half revved up and put it about a bit, and could see that as the best way to knock us out of our stride.
A strong referee would be a bonus,but I think Marquis is too important to the way we play to be rested IDM, and they have been pretty strong down their centre in our other games against them this season.
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I don't disagree about resting Marquis - I would rather he plays personally - but I can imagine he might not start.
Definitely think this is a game we should be looking to win.
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Unless Marquis is injured I am sure he will play.
We just dont have anybody else in our squad who can do the job he does.
This match is just as important as any league game.
We would have a very good chance of drawing a big club in the 4th round. This could make Rovers a sizeable sum which would probably be given to DF to bring in a couple of players in the transfer window.
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I think DF may play with the same formation as played v Peterborough just to change it from our last game v Rochdale. If Copps has recovered then he'll be in the squad but unsure whether he'll start.
Gotta go for it as the reward is too great to take lightly.
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Rochdale came out in the second half revved up and put it about a bit, and could see that as the best way to knock us out of our stride.
Yes, they did play much better in the second half, but with Rovers 2-0 up, we played well within ourselves in order to restrict their chances. Had it been 0-0 or Us losing at half time, I think that you would have seen a different Rovers in the second half.
On the strength of what we saw on Friday and another Rochdale defeat against an out of form Blackpool on Monday, I think that we will have too much for them.
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Personally I think it is a good job we were 2-0 up at half time.
We were running on empty in the last 30 mins due to mixture of fatigue and illness.
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The fear is they have not won away from home against league opposition all season, and everyone knows how good we are at ending other teams bad runs of form, eek.
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The fear is they have not won away from home against league opposition all season, and everyone knows how good we are at ending other teams bad runs of form, eek.
We're so good at it that Rochdale came here last week and...didn't end that bad run of form.
It will have no bearing on the game in my opinion. Whether or not we can maintain our recent performance level will be the deciding factor, as Rochdale looked capable in defeat last week. But we were the better side and can be again here.
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R.A. I agree, let's hope you are right. It was meant to be a tongue in cheek statement.
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Does the availability of our loan players (including Houghton) depend on securing an extension (or permanent transfer) in time?
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One to keep an eye on for the scouts among us, Harrison McGahey, a young defender who has played centre half, and right wing back against us this season, and has won their M.O.M. 5 times this season including 2 in the 3 matches against us. Plays No6,looks comfortable on the ball, is a big unit, and is only 21 yrs old, and could cover a position/ positions we are not over blessed in, and I think is out of contract at the end of the season.
Good spot, Selby, and I agree he would be quite some asset if we were lucky enough to get him, but I think it's the left side that we will be looking to reinforce, as that's where we are on the light side. A good investment if we indeed we are interested.
Reminded me of the lad who was on loan at Mansfield last season, was it Howkins, from West Brom? He was similar in stature and quite powerful. I wonder where he is now?
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An Alfie May Hat-trick will send 'em packing!
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Alan, he has impressed me in all three games, and must admit I was surprised last week when he was played at wing/full back, but he looked more than comfortable in that position, and if he plays to that standard regularly, I would be after him.
Another, if people would still want an experienced mid field player at this level would be Perkins, at Wigan.
Personally I would not bother too much about midfield or strikers, I know that may surprise you , we see different things, but I do see improvement in both players, I prefer one player, you the other.
Of course all that depends on our signing the loan players up for the rest of the season or on a permanent, which I would do if possible.
I would try and get Khemis, Beestin, Fielding, and Amos(tough to do at his age) loans at at least National League level, and let Alcock go if he could find a club.
The left back position is a tough one, I rate Garrett and think he will become a good player.Andrew definitely is. So as manager, we have had to cover that area since Andrews injury, and we have had more than one option, three at the back, Mason, or Garrett, and a couple of players who have dropped in there during a game.
I would not fetch in a permanent in as Andrew will be back next season, and I would hope that Garrett will by then be pushing him anyway, but a loan would stunt Garrett getting experience this season in which we have coped up to press and Garrett has made massive strides in by having to play.
I would be O.K. to go with what we have, unless getting in a good permanent young player like McGahey, keep the money and get a couple of Permanent good youngsters in the summer for next season.
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B.B. I really really hope so, nothing would give me more pleasure.
Although a couple by Mandeville,on as a second half sub would, then we could argue the toss who scored the better goals.
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Having listen to DF’s interview re signings he talked getting through and about a good draw in round 4 so the club get money. I assume this will help in any additional signings. He also says he’ll pick the strongest side he can.
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Fergie saying that is exactly what I want him to do, we need to have a go at this game,it is very important that the increased supporter interest is not lost.
Win this game, and the whole town would be buzzing with the right draw for the next round, and could encourage more people to take up the half season ticket offer, or the group of matches tickets.
It would be nice for our ticket sales for this game to keep pace with our recent league games attendances which have been better than recent seasons. The more that come to the games the better.
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I wouldn't want a permanent signing for left back, either. When Andrew got injured, the manager didn't hang about getting in a replacement, who is now injured and has returned to his parent club. I would rather a better option come in to see us through the remainder of this season. I agree with you on Garrett, but time is on his side, he's still very much at the learning stage.
My main target would be a midfielder and, again, a left sided player, as that gives us the option to play Tommy either at the tip of the diamond or as a support striker to Marquis. That would give us more bang for our buck.
A clinical striker would be the icing on the cake, but we don't have the funds for that sort of player, so we can forget that option.
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Hopefully no news is good news with regard to resigning our loan players.
I don't see any reasons for any problems, all have had good game time, all have started to show more experience, and game management to go with their obvious natural ability.
I hope we get the deal for Houghton across the line, it would show ambition
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I doubt we will hear anything till tomorrow. Hopefully some news then.
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I think we would hear if there were problems earlier than if they were to sign again, I hope so anyway.
Of our loan players the one that would not raise many eyebrows if he left would be Rodney. But I honestly think that he could become a big player for us in the second half of the season,and would be keen to sign him again.
He has that rare ability of being able to run past defenders, and is able to get a cross in while running at speed, and is now realising he can do it in games. He is also putting himself about a bit more when he has not got the ball, covering the player, and getting a tackle in. something that was lacking in his game just a few weeks ago.
Whether he will ever be good enough for City is open to debate, but now we have put in the work in the first half of the season, we might as well try and get the benefit of what he has learnt while with us.
If it works out well it may just encourage M.C. to let us foster other young players and build a relationship.
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I certainly hope you're right with the loanees, Selby. Not hearing anything concerns me, as I thought it was all cut and dried, especially with Whiteman anyway. Fair enough, Houghton's position is slightly different, in that we're trying to get him in permanent, which could take a bit longer (not much longer, though, I hope).
With Kongolo, I'm torn - but I guess it comes down to the fact he's now part of the scene and it would be a crying shame for all that work go to waste, so I hope he does extend. And, you're right, it will foster even better relationships with Citeh. Hell, they may even send us another one!
With Toffolo, I hope he replaces him as we can't afford to be without a good solid left back until the end of the season. If only Andrew was due back!!
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Alan, over the last couple of years I have noticed a close relationship with the local paper the Free Press usually being the first to announce any transfers.
Could tomorrow be their scoop day so to speak, one reporter certainly has his ear to the ground. Plus could Fergie have already completed some business, and is just keeping it close to his chest, as he did at Accrington, which proved to be Houghtons and Masons first game for us, but had been at the club in some secrecy in the week prior.
Fergie has proved to be a cute cookie at such things, and the staff are not the cullender of information we have had under previous managers.
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Oh for the days when Andy Liney used to be in the know, closely followed by everybody else!
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The weekly press conference is tomorrow. Would be a good time to announce some positive news.
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Fingers crossed here!
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With Kongolo, it's very easy just to judge him on what we see on the pitch. He clearly has ability and physically he's fit, strong and quite quick.
What we don't see is how he's adjusted to his new surroundings and playing league football and the pressure of playing for points not wanting to make mistakes.
After the initial excitement and the first few games, once the novelty wore off, he may have lost his mojo a bit. Has he made good friendships? Does he feel like an outsider? All these things add up to how well he's played.
I'm sure DF will be helping him and, I'm also sure Man City will want him to stay. I think we've yet to see the best of Rodders!
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Kongolo is a couple of years (at least) behind the likes of Houghton, Whiteman and Wright in terms of development. Got ability but green as grass.
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Kongolo is 19, 20 this month.
Whiteman is 21
Wright is 22
Houghton is 22
So yes he has lots to learn, this is his first months in league football, he is the youngest player in the first team squad. Only Longbottom when in the squad is younger.
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With Rodneys ability to do things on the pitch that other players at our club cannot do, it is up to the management to encourage him and play him in a position, and a team shape, where he can flourish.
That was the magic of our most recent promotions, the management got the team make up spot on, getting the best out of players who had had little or no success at other clubs.
Stock and Wellens had been jobbing players at other clubs, as were most of that team, but they gelled into one of the most attractive sides to watch outside the premiership. Built around the Jones McCombe centre the other side added a bit of flair as the season progressed, and with two good full backs that team was the best defence we have probably had.
Different ways of playing, just as interesting to watch, something that Fergie looks to be striving for, let's hope he does it.
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Wellens a “jobbing player”??? He was class whatever club he played for. Even went to Leicester an won player of the season.
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Wellens a “jobbing player”??? He was class whatever club he played for. Even went to Leicester an won player of the season.
Yes he did but that was after he left the Sean O’Driscol academy of football which made him into the player he became. Before he was at Rovers he was a very good player but not the finished article he became at Rovers.
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Wellens a “jobbing player”??? He was class whatever club he played for. Even went to Leicester an won player of the season.
Yes he did but that was after he left the Sean O’Driscol academy of football which made him into the player he became. Before he was at Rovers he was a very good player but not the finished article he became at Rovers.
The four seasons prior to joining us he made the PFA team of the year in his relative division.
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Yes Gaz, in the lower two leagues, caused trouble at Oldham and Blackpool, a jobbing player who needed us to get the best out of him, and players around him who brought the best out of him.
I have no doubt he could have played in the top flight if and it is an if he had got a manager who believed in him as he had here earlier in his career.
I am not doubting his ability, he was very very good, but moving about the lower league teams before he arrived here, thats a jobbing player to me, Like Perkins at Wigan.( who I am not comparing in ability by the way)
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Kongolo is 19, 20 this month.
Whiteman is 21
Wright is 22
Houghton is 22
So yes he has lots to learn, this is his first months in league football, he is the youngest player in the first team squad. Only Longbottom when in the squad is younger.
Mason isn't 21 until next week, and Mandeville not until next month. Garratt is also only just 21, Beestin still only 20. No doubting we have some decent young players at the moment.
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Which is why we need to balance that by signing someone in the 24-27 bracket. And not another loan!
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Which is why we need to balance that by signing someone in the 24-27 bracket. And not another loan!
Players at a premium age cost premium money.
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Ambition?
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Ambition?
Budget.
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Any guesses on the side for Saturday ?
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That’s for Rochdale to worry about and not for us to enlighten them !
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Dont think any of us picking the side would help Rochdale.
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Whiteman's not even on bench!
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Good job we’re not a one man team then!!
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Or even a two man team!
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Now Whiteman has left I would be tempted to have a pop at Perkins at Wigan.
I think he is out of contract at the end of the season, Wigan are looking to reduce their outgoings, and a 18 month contract could be acceptable to him. He has experience in abundance at this level, and could do a job this and next season.
Him and McGahey would do me.
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Perkins is far too old, doesn’t fit our strategy at all.
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Fair comment Gaz, 32 I think, but in the first half of the season there were times when we were crying out for a bit of experience, Whiteman has improved over the last two months, but before that hardly hit any high notes, the same with Rodney.
Sheffield United were not contemplating getting him back on loan a week or two ago. We have done the job with him they wanted to do 6 months early, get him ready for them.
Rodney has been the same and is now starting to get to grips with league 1 football, and we have got Houghton match fit again and his club, or agent think he can do better than us. That's reality and the dangers of the loan market, Barnsley used to let us develop, or step in and nick loan players who did well for us on a regular basis.
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Perkins is nothing more than a jobbing midfielder 😜
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35 I believe.
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If that is right Gaz, I would not touch him with a barge pole. No doubt they will have someone in mind.
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Born 21/06/82 so 36 in June this year. :thumbdown:
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I hope the prize of winning doesn't make us too cautious. Just go for it from the off and kick em while they're down.
Tommy Rowe said the season starts now. I'm sure he was referring to the league but it makes you wonder what he was doing before. It's about time he got on the scoresheet again so no better time to start 2018 as you mean to go on!
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I fear that the game will start where the last one finished, Rochdale pressing and being as physical as the ref lets them get away with. Tyler was torn a good un by their right winger particularly in the 1st half last game and I can see them putting pressure on that side. I see a very scrappy game and fear our cup run may be over, hope I'm wrong
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I certainly expect Rochdale to be very physical, but we are not as easy to push around now as we were eight weeks ago.
Just play our football and keep the mistakes to a minimum and we should have enough to get a result.
Most of our young players have a number of games at league level now, and have improved our home form of late.
We can go into the game confident we can get a result, and hopefully the crowd will also do its bit, and gets behind the lads.
If Coppinger and Rowe get into the game we have enough to win the tie.
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Wellens a “jobbing player”??? He was class whatever club he played for. Even went to Leicester an won player of the season.
Yes he did but that was after he left the Sean O’Driscol academy of football which made him into the player he became. Before he was at Rovers he was a very good player but not the finished article he became at Rovers.
The four seasons prior to joining us he made the PFA team of the year in his relative division.
.... and I dont remember much BUT I do remember this Forum was clamoring for him to sign AND ecstatic when he did !
So he was presumably a class act before he came here
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I fear that the game will start where the last one finished, Rochdale pressing and being as physical as the ref lets them get away with. Tyler was torn a good un by their right winger particularly in the 1st half last game and I can see them putting pressure on that side. I see a very scrappy game and fear our cup run may be over, hope I'm wrong
Andy Woolmer the Ref is often on Championship duty so perhaps he will be wise to their antics in a way that the Ref was not last time v Rochdale
He is on a Hat trick of Red Cards as well ! Also does not go mad with Yellows so he either lets stuff go or gets in the action "early" and that steadies the Players down !
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There was no doubting that Wolfie, he was well known as a good player, probably a great player in the small pond of the lower Leagues.
When we signed him he had been superseded at Blackpool by Charlie Adams ( now at Stoke,previously Liverpool. At no point was he touted to play at that level, but I am not saying he was not capable of it.
The fact is,although yes we knew what we were getting,and it excited us, He was in his mid twenties, had moved to a couple of lower league clubs( Blackpool and Oldham and ended up with us. Like Bishop at Scunthorpe a jobbing player.
Every generation has them, we could say the same about Coppinger, Stock,Mcindoe all players that if they had got the move their play deserved at certain times in their career, could easily have played at a higher or even the top level if given the chance.
P.S.
Was it Wellens who suckered Adams at Blackpool, and got him sent off against us?
I was not intending to say he did not have the ability to play higher, but pointing out where he played, and becoming a lower league jobbing player moving from club to club.
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Back on topic, we will need a strong and competent ref tomorrow because for sure, as others have said, Rochdale will almost certainly re introduce themselves with strong arm tactics.
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Yes back on subject Hound, Hill is expecting a reaction to the league fixture scoreline, and has analysed the game, and has openly stated that they will try and recreate their second half showing, when he thought they were the better side.
Rafferty should be back from injury, but Davies will miss the tie with a groin injury he picked up in the game at Doncaster.
They have a far better recent cup record than ourselves, in recent years getting to the 4th round 3yrs out of the last 4yrs, one of their scalps being Weeds 4yrs ago he he.
So recent history is in their favour, and they fancy it against us., and I think we can expect a few feathers to fly.
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The thing is though, we had half our team struggling with some sort of bug.
It won’t be easy and we have lost a goal scoring midfielder, which doesn’t help.
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If you are attending tomorrow please don't forget the foodbank collection, all contributions are welcome!
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Good ref in Andy Woolmer. He won’t stand any nonesence.
Expecting a very tough game tomorrow. Can’t believe Rochdale are 2nd to bottom. They are losing most games by 1 goal only.
One of the better teams to visit the Moat this season.
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One for the statoes, is this tie between the least successful league team (Rochdale) and the least successful F,A. cup side (us) who have played in the competitions since the war?
I don't know if the teams hold those unwanted records, but they cannot be far off.
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Brian as you will know Rovers got to Round 5 last 16 three years on the trot in the 50’s
Surely there must be clubs with a worst FA Cup record.
I know ours is pretty appalling but worst ???
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Paul, that was pathetic in front of goal, how we can dominate the second half like that and one of our front two strikers not threaten their goal at all, is beyond me.
And that miss by Beestin, its all right people thinking May and Beestin are good enough, but with Mason once again proving he cannot play left back , its like taking the field with eight men.
Well it has cost us £67,500 and counting, I hope they draw Man Utd away, they deserve to., and it might just open some peoples eyes.
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Good ref in Andy Woolmer. He won’t stand any nonesence.
😂😂😂😂
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Being cynical, you can't turn up for a game of football and only play 45 minutes of the 90 and expect to get away with it.
Tommy Rowe should hang his head in shame as he ambled and hid for most of the first half. The effort he put in in the second half just highlights what a lazy sod he can be. He's a senior pro who should be leading by example. His role in our relatively inexperienced team is pivotal but he cheated a wage in that first half.
Overall, we had enough chances to win comfortably and it's likely Beestin and Mason won't sleep very well tonight but at least they gave their best.
As much as we'd like May to succeed, he's not showing enough to convince me he's going to be good enough at this level.
It's a shame as it's a great opportunity missed to get through to the next round.
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Paul, I can remember coming on here five or six weeks ago and saying if Fergie continued to play Alfie, his lack of goals could cost him his job.
Hopefully it will not, but has gone a long way to probably costing him a couple of players in the window, with the chance of a big draw in the next round and the money it would have generated.
Everything I thought would happen did, we knew they would be physical, we Knew they would attack our wide backs, we are, and have been poor there in our other games against them. We are poor in front of goal, and when May plays with Marquis both dry up.
We have been fortunate in the last few weeks that midfielders, Butler, and Whiteman have scored, and masked the fact that the strikers are not functioning together.
Well barring a fantastic run of results that is not likely, that is season over, the chance of financial gains in two cups handed over to Rochdale, a team that have not beaten a league team away until today this season, and who must have been laughing their heads off when they saw our team sheet before kick off.
All week Fergie has said he would pick his strongest side, if he thinks that is it, we are in for a long drawn out battle against going down, Square pegs in round holes,and players not up to the standard required never gets a team anywhere.
If we let it go on, all the good work off the field this season,will be thrown away with the home crowd reducing as the season goes on.
And stand by for the same Physical and spoiling tactics against Plymouth, in fact they have built their away game reputation doing it in the last few seasons, and pulled our teeth out at the Keepmoat last season.
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And let me guess what or more likely who is your answer
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Brian you have started your last 2 posts Paul.
Is that me or another Paul. As I have said to you I agree about Alfie May 100%
He is still very much work in progress and should be on the bench and used as an impact player. He just was out muscled today and looked knackered 2nd half.
Big mistake as you said playing Mason at left back. It worked last week as he was ear marked to keep Maddison quiet.
He is a right back nothing else full stop.
The misses today were shocking particularly Beestin and Rowe. Tommy should have scored he is better than that. He was brill 2nd half apart from the miss.
4 penalty shouts 2 definitely, 2 not pens imo.
Foul on Marquis in first min red card all day long. Ref bottled it big time.
I thought Woolmer was a decent strong ref. How wrong can i be.
Absolute Joke he let Rochdale do what they liked.
One major positive today though was performance of Rodney.
Looked like a proper footballer today. A few poor crosses from him but what an improvement. We will need that from him now Whiteman has gone.
Think DF is just trying to manage Copps hence not starting and playing Beestin.
Possibly several hundred thousand pounds gone to Rochdale and not us unfortunately and that will have a serious impact this season and possibly the summer budget also.
Positive thinking though as anything else just drags you down.
Onwards and upwards.
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I don't blame DF , I blame his dad , we've never won when he's been to watch.
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That first tackle set the tone of the game, it does not take much for players to realise they can get away with the rough stuff.
Rochdale were given licence to push it to the limit after that tackle. The stiff arm elbow enacted on Coppinger is a six to eight match ban at rugby league and a player put on report.
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100% agreed. Yes we did need a strong ref. I thought Woolmer was when I heard yesterday he was doing our match.
I must have been thinking he was someone else.
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Paul, I can remember coming on here five or six weeks ago and saying if Fergie continued to play Alfie, his lack of goals could cost him his job.
Hopefully it will not, but has gone a long way to probably costing him a couple of players in the window, with the chance of a big draw in the next round and the money it would have generated.
Everything I thought would happen did, we knew they would be physical, we Knew they would attack our wide backs, we are, and have been poor there in our other games against them. We are poor in front of goal, and when May plays with Marquis both dry up.
We have been fortunate in the last few weeks that midfielders, Butler, and Whiteman have scored, and masked the fact that the strikers are not functioning together.
Well barring a fantastic run of results that is not likely, that is season over, the chance of financial gains in two cups handed over to Rochdale, a team that have not beaten a league team away until today this season, and who must have been laughing their heads off when they saw our team sheet before kick off.
All week Fergie has said he would pick his strongest side, if he thinks that is it, we are in for a long drawn out battle against going down, Square pegs in round holes,and players not up to the standard required never gets a team anywhere.
If we let it go on, all the good work off the field this season,will be thrown away with the home crowd reducing as the season goes on.
And stand by for the same Physical and spoiling tactics against Plymouth, in fact they have built their away game reputation doing it in the last few seasons, and pulled our teeth out at the Keepmoat last season.
So selby you are saying Alfie May was the reason we lost today? Not Beestin or Rowe for missing excellent chances? Nor whichever defender didn't stop Andrew heading in the winning goal, or the keeper? Or, you know, the entire team for their collective part in losing the football match, since rarely are results down to just one player out of 22 on a pitch?
This is starting to look like a vendetta and I simply don't think it's justified.
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Of course I think that Beestin and Rowe are at fault for missing them two chances, of course I think that the referee played a big part in our demise, You cannot blame May for missing chances today,he never got near the goal to miss any, and was not in the game in the second half, a part of the game we dominated.
If you think he had a good game R.A. you definitely see a different game to me. You seem to want me to comment on how I thought May played, well as a matter of fact I thought he was s***e.
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I actually think that is the poorest game I've seen May have since he joined us. His conversion rate is poor but he usually manages to either get a chance or make something happen by harrassing defenders. I thought he should have come off much earlier than he did.
Although the biggest error was not playing Coppinger from the start. Something I don't understand because he was rested on Monday and we clearly wanted to win this game. I understand his workload needs to be managed but with no midweek game next week it seemed madness not to start him.
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Selby I've said in other threads that May was poor yesterday, but he certainly wasn't the only one nor can he take the blame for our defeat.
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R.B. I agree entirely with your comments, the biggest mistake was made before a ball was kicked, and Coppinger not starting was not the only one made before the game.
What the bloody hell is going off with Wright. or is his situation another case of Fergie managing the situation.
I think he is out of contract at the end of the season, but I am not certain of that, but he must think why am I not playing after the way he has played this season, and could think I am getting away from this, if he is.