Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: GazLaz on January 06, 2018, 06:37:05 pm
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In his interview he doesn’t sound happy that we didn’t win today to free some money up to strengthen. It got me thinking, how much did we get for the Arsenal trip and why hadn’t it been made available to strengthen?
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He’s doing his usual ‘ We only got 18 players now “ and “ Nothing happening with players coming in” Pathetic. It obvious the board don’t fancy putting money into a bottomless pit .
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Bottomless pit??
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He’s doing his usual ‘ We only got 18 players now “ and “ Nothing happening with players coming in” Pathetic. It obvious the board don’t fancy putting money into a bottomless pit .
What are you talking about. Please explain
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Rovers got 45% of the gate revenue from Arsenal. Probably around £200,000 + £7,000 prize money + £TV revenue from the game being shown internationally. No doubt commercial revenue got a boost as well.
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I quite like Fergie. I thought his interview comments were fair.
I also liked the fact that he said he won’t have the telly on Monday night at ten past seven. Neither will I because I’m mardy as f***
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I’d also think that the attendances are above what the initially budgeted for.
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He’s doing his usual ‘ We only got 18 players now “ and “ Nothing happening with players coming in” Pathetic. It obvious the board don’t fancy putting money into a bottomless pit .
I think that the Board may have looked at DF's last two Januarys and concluded that his acquisitions in those windows, ultimately, had no telling effect on the outcome of each season.
Personally, I quite like their attitude. Essentially, it puts a rocket up DF's arse to deliver consolidation in L1 with what he's got.
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The problem last January was he didn't get anything then either
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He’s doing his usual ‘ We only got 18 players now “ and “ Nothing happening with players coming in” Pathetic. It obvious the board don’t fancy putting money into a bottomless pit .
What are you talking about. Please explain
Listen to DFs postmatch interview.
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The problem last January was he didn't get anything then either
Conor Grant? What a waste that was!
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He’s doing his usual ‘ We only got 18 players now “ and “ Nothing happening with players coming in” Pathetic. It obvious the board don’t fancy putting money into a bottomless pit .
I think that the Board may have looked at DF's last two Januarys and concluded that his acquisitions in those windows, ultimately, had no telling effect on the outcome of each season.
Personally, I quite like their attitude. Essentially, it puts a rocket up DF's arse to deliver consolidation in L1 with what he's got.
We are not safe yet . IMO if we don’t solve scoring problems we will be dragged back . You can’t base your future on your past.
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The problem last January was he didn't get anything then either
Conor Grant? What a waste that was!
We agreed a fee for him didn’t we..where’s that money ?
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There's always two sides to the coin. He said himself, he has a budget and as always, it's his responsibility to manage it. That includes getting players out as well as in. We still have players on the books that will not play for us again.
On the flip side, we could say he's been unlucky with the injuries and illness so possibly should be given some leeway.
Difficult for us to make any judgment as we don't know enough of what goes on behind the scenes.
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I'd remain hopeful of us having a trick up our sleeve. He's not going to show all his cards in an interview is he?
Striker is desperately needed. My patience with Alfie May is starting to wear thin. He's had the benefit of the doubt in his first year at the club but it's becoming all too frequent that he looks out of his depth.
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The problem last January was he didn't get anything then either
Conor Grant? What a waste that was!
We agreed a fee for him didn’t we..where’s that money ?
Used on Mason or to sign Kiwomya, Andrew, Marquis, etc?
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I'd remain hopeful of us having a trick up our sleeve. He's not going to show all his cards in an interview is he?
Striker is desperately needed. My patience with Alfie May is starting to wear thin. He's had the benefit of the doubt in his first year at the club but it's becoming all too frequent that he looks out of his depth.
He's been one of our best players in the last couple of home league games.
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I'd remain hopeful of us having a trick up our sleeve. He's not going to show all his cards in an interview is he?
Striker is desperately needed. My patience with Alfie May is starting to wear thin. He's had the benefit of the doubt in his first year at the club but it's becoming all too frequent that he looks out of his depth.
He's been one of our best players in the last couple of home league games.
Not sure I agree. He runs around a lot but some of the chances he misses are inexcusable.
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Yeah it seems strange that the arsenal money, gates over 7200 budget (I think it was) and no further cash for Jan. Yet saying that the over budget money will just be eating into extra cash being put i to offset the directors payments for shortfall. I think if we can consolidate this year we will be in a great position in the summer with unwanted high earners off the books and possibly an already agreed summer signing for Houghton. We also have to remember we have long term injuries coming back that will be like signings in Jan/ Feb too. It may end up being good business not to add more in Jan and use it for the summer. Mid table with these players and more coming backshoild mean a plan to be ok, then really push on next season
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It seems to me that he had a budget but was promised money from the arsenal game, and now this hasn't materialised
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He’s doing his usual ‘ We only got 18 players now “ and “ Nothing happening with players coming in” Pathetic. It obvious the board don’t fancy putting money into a bottomless pit .
I think that the Board may have looked at DF's last two Januarys and concluded that his acquisitions in those windows, ultimately, had no telling effect on the outcome of each season.
Personally, I quite like their attitude. Essentially, it puts a rocket up DF's arse to deliver consolidation in L1 with what he's got.
We are not safe yet . IMO if we don’t solve scoring problems we will be dragged back . You can’t base your future on your past.
Don't disagree. You're right we're not safe. We've had a problem up front all season; but I'm not convinced that bringing in another couple of loanees - remember the quality of what's out there at this stage of the season compared to the close season - would make any real difference. My point is that DF's record of fixing things through a January window hasn't been good; well certainly not in his time with us. I can't help but feel that anyone he brings in at this stage of the season on a loan basis would be an outright punt.
Or are you suggesting that the Board blow a million or two in an over-inflated market for someone a bit more proven?
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It’s not budgets that gets results it getting players with ability and a willingness to go beyond there pay grade . We have not depth or resilience . We have players who fit the leagues demands but not much else.
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It’s not budgets that gets results it getting players with ability and a willingness to go beyond there pay grade . We have not depth or resilience . We have players who fit the leagues demands but not much else.
Budget makes a massive difference. You can sign better players if you have more money, you still have to get a tune out of them but it’s easier.
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We have a more than adequate budget to do well in this league. We have been told previously it is easily a top ten budget. The manager - whether Ferguson or whoever - needs to work to that decent budget and wring out more from his players, rather than seeking more cash. There are some senior players on good money but who are never going to play for us under the current manager (Cedric, Williams, Etheridge) and that money is wasted. It was not the decision of the Board to sign or hand out contracts to these players.
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Do well as finish midtable yes, but if we've expectations of moving up the league then now is the time to sign some players
Other sides around us will, and already have this week
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We have a more than adequate budget to do well in this league. We have been told previously it is easily a top ten budget. The manager - whether Ferguson or whoever - needs to work to that decent budget and wring out more from his players, rather than seeking more cash. There are some senior players on good money but who are never going to play for us under the current manager (Cedric, Williams, Etheridge) and that money is wasted. It was not the decision of the Board to sign or hand out contracts to these players.
Cedric and Etheridge were wrong decisions but DF didn’t sign one or if the highest wage earner in Williams.
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It's the 6th of Jan lets wait till the end of Jan before we all get suicidal
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It seems to me that he had a budget but was promised money from the arsenal game, and now this hasn't materialised
If this is true then it could be the start of a problem between DF and the board. Broken promises won’t go down well.
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All managers make the occasional bad signing, O'Driscoll signed Thomas, Payne, Brooker, Gary Woods, Souza. Saunders signed Harper and Fowler. Dickov signed Bywater, Razak, Main.
Williams is currently injured so may feature yet for us, Cedric is on-loan and they're paying some of his wages and we're probably going to get rid of Etheridge after his injury either on-loan or on a free.
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Get Williams and Coppinger off the wage bill in the summer and that will free up plenty.
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Get Williams and Coppinger off the wage bill in the summer and that will free up plenty.
Add to that Alcock.
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Get Williams and Coppinger off the wage bill in the summer and that will free up plenty.
Not to mention Cedric fully gone and then Alcock & Etheridge probably some more i've missed out. In the summer i'd expect decent signings.
Reality is in jan you've either got to spend cash, something most clubs at this level can't, or it's signing young players from the prem, personally i'd rather see what the lads in our squad have got
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I'd keep Copps in squad player role. He knows he can't play every game nowadays and so wages should reflect that.
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Get Williams and Coppinger off the wage bill in the summer and that will free up plenty.
Add to that Alcock.
I could also see Marosi going too. I know he's just signed a new deal but surely he'd want to play games and he's not going to get in front of Lawlor.
That's not to say I don't rate him. Will just be interesting to see what happens and if he has the ambition to play.
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There are a few strange goings on. Either someone is bluffing, or there has been some miscommunication. To suggest now that there is no money available is very odd.
We agreed a deal with Chelsea for Houghton and that didn’t come off. Houghton has now indicated that he could still sign in this window. But the latest inference is that we wouldn’t have any funds to do it. Odd.
Not getting through today was understandably a blow to the available funds. But hitting the jackpot would surely not have been in ‘the budget’ anyway. And as others said, crowd numbers have been decent and the Arsenal game was an unexpected bonus. So surely Ferguson was bluffing to suggest that there is now nothing in the pot.
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Get Williams and Coppinger off the wage bill in the summer and that will free up plenty.
Copps has got one more season in him but I think at this stage in his career he shouldn't be on top money anymore, add his wage reduction to the freed up wages of Williams, Alcock, ethridge and evina and we have a good amount of money to strengthen next season. I was told last season that Williams is on around 8k a week, that would pay for 2/3 decent players at this level.
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Get Williams and Coppinger off the wage bill in the summer and that will free up plenty.
Copps has got one more season in him but I think at this stage in his career he shouldn't be on top money anymore, add his wage reduction to the freed up wages of Williams, Alcock, ethridge and evina and we have a good amount of money to strengthen next season. I was told last season that Williams is on around 8k a week, that would pay for 2/3 decent players at this level.
I agree but £8K a week can't be right?
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There are a few strange goings on. Either someone is bluffing, or there has been some miscommunication. To suggest now that there is no money available is very odd.
We agreed a deal with Chelsea for Houghton and that didn’t come off. Houghton has now indicated that he could still sign in this window. But the latest inference is that we wouldn’t have any funds to do it. Odd.
Not getting through today was understandably a blow to the available funds. But hitting the jackpot would surely not have been in ‘the budget’ anyway. And as others said, crowd numbers have been decent and the Arsenal game was an unexpected bonus. So surely Ferguson was bluffing to suggest that there is now nothing in the pot.
Come on we should know by now not to believe a word that DF says when it comes to bringing player's in during transfer windows and the closed season.
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Gaz, if £8k was a lot 3 years ago for Williams, going on the Houghton issue, it may be that it is now the norm in this division, and releasing that money will not get you 2/3 players now.
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Get Williams and Coppinger off the wage bill in the summer and that will free up plenty.
Copps has got one more season in him but I think at this stage in his career he shouldn't be on top money anymore, add his wage reduction to the freed up wages of Williams, Alcock, ethridge and evina and we have a good amount of money to strengthen next season. I was told last season that Williams is on around 8k a week, that would pay for 2/3 decent players at this level.
I agree but £8K a week can't be right?
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Get Williams and Coppinger off the wage bill in the summer and that will free up plenty.
Copps has got one more season in him but I think at this stage in his career he shouldn't be on top money anymore, add his wage reduction to the freed up wages of Williams, Alcock, ethridge and evina and we have a good amount of money to strengthen next season. I was told last season that Williams is on around 8k a week, that would pay for 2/3 decent players at this level.
I agree but £8K a week can't be right?
That is what I was told by a friend who is a reliable source. This was the reason he refused to leave in the summer. Remember when we signed him he turned the blades down to sign for us.
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People keep mentioning the increased attendances this year.
I was told before the season that Virgin Trains had bought 1,400 seasons tickets (i believe that was the number) as part of the sponsorship deal. These seem to be being distributed to various groups to get them in the ground. Unique way of doing things but I don't think it necessarily corresponds to a massive increase in revenue.
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Williams isn’t on 8k a week.
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Williams isn’t on 8k a week.
How do you know he isn't
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Get Williams and Coppinger off the wage bill in the summer and that will free up plenty.
Copps has got one more season in him but I think at this stage in his career he shouldn't be on top money anymore, add his wage reduction to the freed up wages of Williams, Alcock, ethridge and evina and we have a good amount of money to strengthen next season. I was told last season that Williams is on around 8k a week, that would pay for 2/3 decent players at this level.
Not a chance it is 8k Maybe 5k If it’s 8k then Dickov must have robbed the bank of Bramall/Watson when they were not looking.
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I heard it was 6k a week can't remember who and it wasn't anyone ITK but remember we signed him after topping the league one scoring so he's going to be on a decent contract
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Get Williams and Coppinger off the wage bill in the summer and that will free up plenty.
Copps has got one more season in him but I think at this stage in his career he shouldn't be on top money anymore, add his wage reduction to the freed up wages of Williams, Alcock, ethridge and evina and we have a good amount of money to strengthen next season. I was told last season that Williams is on around 8k a week, that would pay for 2/3 decent players at this level.
Not a chance it is 8k Maybe 5k If it’s 8k then Dickov must have robbed the bank of Bramall/Watson when they were not looking.
I'm just repeating what a friend who knows Williams told me last season. My friend has no intrest in rovers or football but lives on the same street as him.
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I'm not so sure Williams would go around telling his neighbours his weekly wage.
Would he?
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There is no way this club would pay anybody £400,000 a year in league 1 not unless our ave gates were 11/12,000
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I'm not so sure Williams would go around telling his neighbours his weekly wage.
Would he?
You might do if u were up your own backside and liked to boast about your wealth like certain footballers do
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416k a year for ONE player!
You just need to compare that against our total wage bill to see how ridiculous that looks.
416k!
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Rovers got 45% of the gate revenue from Arsenal. Probably around £200,000 + £7,000 prize money + £TV revenue from the game being shown internationally. No doubt commercial revenue got a boost as well.
The official attendance for that match was 44,064. Adult tickets for the lower tier (where the vast majority of fans were) were £10 and kids/OAP tickets £5.
Even if you are generous and assume that the average ticket price was £10 (it wouldn’t have been because there were many, many kids and OAPs) there, the gross hate receipts would have been £440k.
Then, before the receipts are divvied up,Arsenal can deduct reasonable costs to arrive at a net figure.
EFL website:
20 Financial Rules
20.1 The proceeds of all matches (including replayed matches and admittance to the Visiting Club’s home ground where a beam back is provided) after paying thereout the travelling expenses of the Visiting Club, the ground and other expenses of the match including Value Added Tax, floodlighting of the playing pitch and ancillary lighting (not to exceed £200), advertising, printing, postage, police charges, turnstile operators, stewards, contribution to first aid helpers, costs incurred pursuant to Rule 14.7 (goal line technology and video referees if used) and clearing the ground of snow, provided in the case of the last mentioned item the Visiting Club is notified in advance of the match in question of the approximate cost (such net proceeds being hereinafter referred to as ‘the Net Cup Competition Gate’) shall save as set out below be divided as follows:
20.1.1 45 per cent to each Club taking part in such match;
Given that VAT will immediate take 20% off the gross receipts, and given the likely several thousand man-hours of effort associated with running a match at a 60,000 capacity stadium, I’d be surprised if the Rovers got as much as £100k from their share of the gate receipts.
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It seems to me that he had a budget but was promised money from the arsenal game, and now this hasn't materialised
Every manager at DRFC has a budget. Every manager in the EFL has a budget, its now part of EFL rules. Not sure where he has ever been promised extra money just because of the one game against Arsenal. Was this something he's said in public?
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BST, fair enough, probably about right. I wasn't trying to show it was a lot of money btw. Even 200k doesn't go far does it, presuming we're running at an operating loss.
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It seems to me that he had a budget but was promised money from the arsenal game, and now this hasn't materialised
Every manager at DRFC has a budget. Every manager in the EFL has a budget, its now part of EFL rules. Not sure where he has ever been promised extra money just because of the one game against Arsenal. Was this something he's said in public?
People have suggested that today's game determined whether we spent or not in January.
Gavin is always saying extra revenue the club receives will be used on the playing squad,
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There are a few strange goings on. Either someone is bluffing, or there has been some miscommunication. To suggest now that there is no money available is very odd.
We agreed a deal with Chelsea for Houghton and that didn’t come off. Houghton has now indicated that he could still sign in this window. But the latest inference is that we wouldn’t have any funds to do it. Odd.
Not getting through today was understandably a blow to the available funds. But hitting the jackpot would surely not have been in ‘the budget’ anyway. And as others said, crowd numbers have been decent and the Arsenal game was an unexpected bonus. So surely Ferguson was bluffing to suggest that there is now nothing in the pot.
Managers will always want a bigger budget than what has been agreed and allocated, its the way of the world. What I would suggest is that if he can put forward a good business case for signing someone else he would be listened to. Budgets therefore are fluid to a point, do well, attract the crowds, make progress and you will be listened to.
He'll be at the next board meeting, he can make his case there.
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It seems to me that he had a budget but was promised money from the arsenal game, and now this hasn't materialised
Every manager at DRFC has a budget. Every manager in the EFL has a budget, its now part of EFL rules. Not sure where he has ever been promised extra money just because of the one game against Arsenal. Was this something he's said in public?
People have suggested that today's game determined whether we spent or not in January.
Gavin is always saying extra revenue the club receives will be used on the playing squad,
Yep, and he's right. But today would have been a bonus, if you don't earn it you can't spend it. As for finding money for other signings see my post above.
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I've been told, ferguson and Wilcox had a meeting with the board a few weeks back and were told they couldn't approach any of their targets as the funds weren't available
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I've been told, ferguson and Wilcox had a meeting with the board a few weeks back and were told they couldn't approach any of their targets as the funds weren't available
You've been told wrong.
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Do well as finish midtable yes, but if we've expectations of moving up the league then now is the time to sign some players
Other sides around us will, and already have this week
There's the rub, we are handily placed & now would be the time to strengthen & have a go at reaching the play offs, or even bring in a couple to at least consolidate our position. If not, I really hope we have enough to get us through the remainder of the season.
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To reach the play offs we'd either have to spend an awful lot of money or get incredibly lucky with a couple of signings. More realistically, we just need the proverbial point a game from the last 20 to be safe from relegation. I can understand the board are reluctant to push the boat out this time, but I do think we need a left back and a replacement for Whiteman, though both will be loans.
Ideally I'd like a striker who could be an effective partner for Marquis, but unless Kiwomya really hits the ground running I fear we're stuck with what we've got.
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I've been told, ferguson and Wilcox had a meeting with the board a few weeks back and were told they couldn't approach any of their targets as the funds weren't available
You've been told wrong.
I'm not sure I have,
But let's leave it at that
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There's one thing for sure, if we don't strengthen this window then we are playing with fire. That team today will not see us safe at the end of the season. We were already missing experience in our midfield and that was with Whiteman in it.
We are trying to manage with 2 makeshift full backs and that really showed today. The strikers are having to work extremely hard in the hope they can cause defenders to make mistakes and are not getting many opportunities from players going round people.
We are crying out for re-inforcements and all we get is that there's no budget for it. Well, it's that same budget that will be the sole reason for yet another relegation. It's time to see sense. Plymouth will actually overtake us next week and look at the start they had! It's time to wake up and smell the coffee before it's too late.
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I would imagine that our manager is probably the highest paid or among the highest paid at the club. You would hope that our manager would be able to add something to the top 10 budget we have through motivation, nouse, tactics etc to get more out of a group of players. Got to look at value for money from players and management staff. No magic money tree folks!
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Plymouth will overtake us next week?
I bet Xmas is a blast, Chez Alan!
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There's one thing for sure, if we don't strengthen this window then we are playing with fire. That team today will not see us safe at the end of the season. We were already missing experience in our midfield and that was with Whiteman in it.
That’ll be the midfield that took us to a top half spot with 20 matches left?
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It is a fair point to make that even with Whiteman we don't really have much depth in centre midfielder. Houghton yes, potentially Rodney maybe, also Whiteman. All young lads and now one third down. Rowe, Copps and Blair either width of diamond or 10. Does not give us many options to change midfield around with so little depth or variety in centre midfield.
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Lots of parts to it. A message to the board perhaps. A message to our players, agents, other players, other clubs etc....
Basically don't believe a word they say. If he comes out and says he's got loads he's gonna be shafted in negotiations. Equally he may have some conflict with the board and is making a point. What is for sure is it is for a reason. Give him 1m he'll want 2 etc.
In recent years everything is done on the quiet. That should not change.
If I was in charge I would only look at youngsters for next year. We will not go down and should not aim to go up..We should aim to consolidate, give some others a run e.g. Mandeville, Garrett and see if they are good enough or not.
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BFYP
A voice of sanity at last.
Anyone on here fancy a game of poker?
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There are a lot of cheap season tickets due to people's ages which is great for the future but not sure the 7k figure will be as accurate
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There's one thing for sure, if we don't strengthen this window then we are playing with fire. That team today will not see us safe at the end of the season. We were already missing experience in our midfield and that was with Whiteman in it.
We are trying to manage with 2 makeshift full backs and that really showed today. The strikers are having to work extremely hard in the hope they can cause defenders to make mistakes and are not getting many opportunities from players going round people.
We are crying out for re-inforcements and all we get is that there's no budget for it. Well, it's that same budget that will be the sole reason for yet another relegation. It's time to see sense. Plymouth will actually overtake us next week and look at the start they had! It's time to wake up and smell the coffee before it's too late.
Previous four games Alan?
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That’ll be the midfield that took us to a top half spot with 20 matches left?
Read what I wrote, Billy, you know it's not the same midfield because we are a man down (through no fault of DF). Beestin, like May, will probably make a good player next season or the one after, but please don't tell me we are going to be relying on these lads to do the business. It's utterly wrong. As is this obsession with playing Mason all over the place, it's just not on.
So long as the budget's alright, though, everything will be fine.
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The way he said no, when asked, he means no. It’s not a game of poker. Can he possibly persuade the powers that be to give him some funds, possibly, but as of now I’m sure he’s expecting no more business. He doesn’t need to play poker, we will only be nicking loans and frees anyway.
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There are a few strange goings on. Either someone is bluffing, or there has been some miscommunication. To suggest now that there is no money available is very odd.
We agreed a deal with Chelsea for Houghton and that didn’t come off. Houghton has now indicated that he could still sign in this window. But the latest inference is that we wouldn’t have any funds to do it. Odd.
Not getting through today was understandably a blow to the available funds. But hitting the jackpot would surely not have been in ‘the budget’ anyway. And as others said, crowd numbers have been decent and the Arsenal game was an unexpected bonus. So surely Ferguson was bluffing to suggest that there is now nothing in the pot.
Managers will always want a bigger budget than what has been agreed and allocated, its the way of the world. What I would suggest is that if he can put forward a good business case for signing someone else he would be listened to. Budgets therefore are fluid to a point, do well, attract the crowds, make progress and you will be listened to.
He'll be at the next board meeting, he can make his case there.
Hopefully the next board meeting will take place on a date that still leaves time to act. I think there would be a clear business case for bringing in a young player with huge promise like Houghton on a permanent deal. Same goes for Whiteman, if Sheffield United decoded to sell. It would be hoped that other clubs don’t move for potential targets before our next board meeting.
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What comes first the Board meeting or the needs of the team?
Don't answer, I already who is going to say what!
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From what I know of Andy Watson he wants the Rovers to succeed just as much as his dad did; the transfer windows is not even a week old and the board have plenty of time to give Fergie the resources he needs to improve the squad, if they haven't already.
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After the fiasco with some of our signings last season , you would have thought quality would be on top of DFs list ,yet we keep signing wet behind the ears defenders (Mason) and give long contracts to over rated , over paid forwards (Marquis ) . Money is definitely not being splashed about but what we have is geing squandered it . What is the point to agreeing to loan players on short term only to loose them when they play well for us. There has to have been year long loans available. We are just being seen as a bargain basement club who’s board are just playing us all .
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That’ll be the midfield that took us to a top half spot with 20 matches left?
Read what I wrote, Billy, you know it's not the same midfield because we are a man down (through no fault of DF). Beestin, like May, will probably make a good player next season or the one after, but please don't tell me we are going to be relying on these lads to do the business. It's utterly wrong. As is this obsession with playing Mason all over the place, it's just not on.
So long as the budget's alright, though, everything will be fine.
Alan
I’ve just listened to Ferguson’s post-match interview. He says he’s concentrating on striking a deal to get Whiteman back (loan or permanent, he said) and if not, the priority will be to replace him like for like.
So that should ease your worry. The manager expects us to have a midfield of a similar quality to the one that took us to the top half.
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That is good to hear BST. Window is only 6 days in after all, not surprised people worried after the Whiteman news but this speculation about there being no money could get out of hand.