Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: nortikorner on February 13, 2018, 08:35:23 pm

Title: Time as Come
Post by: nortikorner on February 13, 2018, 08:35:23 pm
Three Nil down at halftime  he as to go
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: RoversAlias on February 13, 2018, 08:36:34 pm
Here we go again. This forum is the true doldrums nowadays.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: Samson Vidal on February 13, 2018, 08:36:54 pm
Its like weve time travelled back to That dreadful run
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: BerlinRed on February 13, 2018, 08:37:55 pm
Here we go again. This forum is the true doldrums nowadays.

Watching this, I'm finding it hard to disagree to be honest. Gutless.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: Retdon1 on February 13, 2018, 08:39:41 pm
It's happening again. Do we give him the chance to save us this time around or get rid now
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: Park Rover on February 13, 2018, 08:42:11 pm
Tinkering again, 3 at the back tonight. Being hammered by a team who were below us, we are in a relegation battle. Nothing to do with glass half empty it’s fact
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: watto-drfc on February 13, 2018, 08:43:55 pm
Get rid and get Gareth ainsworth in
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: esdailles left foot on February 13, 2018, 08:46:02 pm
Here we go again. This forum is the true doldrums nowadays.

What do you expect?
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: esdailles left foot on February 13, 2018, 08:46:18 pm
Has
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: RoversAlias on February 13, 2018, 08:47:47 pm
Here we go again. This forum is the true doldrums nowadays.

Watching this, I'm finding it hard to disagree to be honest. Gutless.

I do understand that, it's not good at all that we're 3-0 down at half time away to Walsall and are in a serious malaise of late, but the term "knee jerk" has never been more applicable than to Rovers fans I feel.

Every setback leads to a load of people crying 'Fergie Out!'. I understand worry that we'll repeat last year, I understand we haven't quite been good enough the last couple of games and we haven't won in a while but it's far from panic stations and the loss of three top defenders to injury in the space of a week has not helped.

I just feel like every topic on the VSC forum the last few months is either a thread moaning about Fergie or a thread involving loads of pointless, childish bickering between a few posters. I'm tired of it, I want to see more level-headed and reasonable discussion of the football team.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: watto-drfc on February 13, 2018, 08:51:18 pm
Ok is Tommy Rowe a left back???
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: nortikorner on February 13, 2018, 08:57:39 pm
I don't want to go to Forest Green
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: CrippyCooke on February 13, 2018, 08:58:39 pm
Get rid and get Gareth ainsworth in

Why would he leave at this point in the season?
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: since-1969 on February 13, 2018, 09:10:31 pm
Here we go again. This forum is the true doldrums nowadays.

Watching this, I'm finding it hard to disagree to be honest. Gutless.

I do understand that, it's not good at all that we're 3-0 down at half time away to Walsall and are in a serious malaise of late, but the term "knee jerk" has never been more applicable than to Rovers fans I feel.

Every setback leads to a load of people crying 'Fergie Out!'. I understand worry that we'll repeat last year, I understand we haven't quite been good enough the last couple of games and we haven't won in a while but it's far from panic stations and the loss of three top defenders to injury in the space of a week has not helped.

I just feel like every topic on the VSC forum the last few months is either a thread moaning about Fergie or a thread involving loads of pointless, childish bickering between a few posters. I'm tired of it, I want to see more level-headed and reasonable discussion of the football team.
  “Knee jerk “ It is NOT, denial of our over all abilities  it most certainly is . Our form is just rubbish , we are happy to scrape draws from possible defeats . Excuses of one thing or another has been substituted for the obvious   truth , that we are just not good enough to compete , because of insufficient resources have not  been put into the teams deficiencies from the start of the season . If we survive this season , then honesty of teams expectations going forward needs addressing.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: bobbymax on February 13, 2018, 09:21:25 pm
TBH, in he midst of a hammering is not the time for rational thought.
However, performances are deteriorating rapidly and we are offering no goal threat.
One does have to question why on earth the manager has switched to a back three tonight with unfamiliar players when we have never mastered the formation with our first-choice defence. Smacking of panic and desperation to me and I've never been among the 'Fergie Out' brigade before. Should we lose to Fleetwood as well, the s**t would definitely hit the fan.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: Retdon1 on February 13, 2018, 09:26:00 pm
If we don't win Saturday then time has come to get rid... get someone like mark warburton or Brian McDermott in
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: since-1969 on February 13, 2018, 09:31:50 pm
DF is a good manager but like most managers he needs consistency from his players .when you don’t get two games the same it’s hard to explain how he can take things to another level. I believe our poor preseason has layed the foundation for where we are now . Players coming in on loan then injuries, then more loans coming in . This is not a team but a jig saw . The solution has to lay in getting to player signed up from the start and with sufficient experience at level required.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: drfchound on February 13, 2018, 09:33:27 pm
DF is a good manager but like most managers he needs consistency from his players .when you don’t get two games the same it’s hard to explain how he can take things to another level. I believe our poor preseason has layed the foundation for where we are now . Players coming in on loan then injuries, then more loans coming in . This is not a team but a jig saw . The solution has to lay in getting to player signed up from the start and with sufficient experience at level required.





We have just had two similar performances in a row.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: since-1969 on February 13, 2018, 09:35:27 pm
1-1?& 4-2 ?
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: BigH on February 13, 2018, 09:36:36 pm
Being dispassionate about it, if the Board do decide to make a change then it has to be this week. Thirteen games left; 3 wins/3 draws or 2 wins/6 draws to stay up.

And if someone new were to come in then they'd have to be a proven quantity in this division who could work with the current backroom setup, with the probable exception of Strachan.

Otherwise, there's no point and DF should stay on.

Not an easy decision.



Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: wesisback on February 13, 2018, 09:40:00 pm
1-1?& 4-2 ?
One was a terrible performance against a team that failed to capitalise. One was a terrible performance against a team that did. The only inconsistency is the opposition.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: the vicar on February 13, 2018, 09:50:49 pm
He does have to go but who would come in surly nor Derry or the knobhead from Grimsby
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: DonnyOsmond on February 13, 2018, 09:50:58 pm
Get rid and get Gareth ainsworth in

Him who their fans hate for his negative football? :lol:
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: pib on February 13, 2018, 09:53:24 pm
Get rid and get Gareth ainsworth in

Him who their fans hate for his negative football? :lol:

I'm no Gareth Ainsworth fan but if Wycombe fans are complaining at being 3rd in the league they need to get some perspective.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: drfchound on February 13, 2018, 09:55:21 pm
1-1?& 4-2 ?




Performances, not results.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: drfchound on February 13, 2018, 09:58:50 pm
Get rid and get Gareth ainsworth in

Him who their fans hate for his negative football? :lol:





Negative, 63 goals in 32 games against our 39 in 33.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: DonnyOsmond on February 13, 2018, 10:03:05 pm
Get rid and get Gareth ainsworth in

Him who their fans hate for his negative football? :lol:





Negative, 63 goals in 32 games against our 39 in 33.

We scored 85 last season in that league with our manager. So how does that mean Ainsworth would be different?
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: drfchound on February 13, 2018, 10:04:21 pm
I am not saying he would am I ?
I was suggesting that his record is anything but negative this season.

Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: DonnyOsmond on February 13, 2018, 10:09:05 pm
I am not saying he would am I ?
I was suggesting that his record is anything but negative this season.



I'm just going from comments I've heard from Wycombe fans, albeit not recently.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: drfchound on February 13, 2018, 10:11:18 pm
Ah.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: Geoff Blakesley on February 13, 2018, 10:16:15 pm
I don't have anything against the guy but he seems incapable of averting slumps and downward spirals. He thinks that tactics will get us out of trouble rather than making the most of what he has got. Playing three at the back will see him sacked and the team relegated but somehow he stubbornly sticks to it along with the diamond.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: drfchound on February 13, 2018, 10:18:47 pm
That is a fair enough summary Mr B.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: dickos1 on February 13, 2018, 10:22:43 pm
Not sure how you can stubbornly stick to two different systems.
And he's already stopped a terrible run once this season
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: DonnyOsmond on February 13, 2018, 10:38:04 pm
Me personally, I see that a manager needs plenty of time to build something long term, look at SOD for instance, people wanted him out before he turned water into wine. At the moment though were playing 90% crap football, its mostly just hoof it up to Marquis or out wide and hopefully win a challenge in the air, no actual build up play. Were basically not even playing the first half of games and only starting on the 45th minute then chasing games. The bad run has ended up after the defensive injuries, yes there was a few draws before that but some were against quality teams like Shrewbury.

I hate the short termism of the game nowadays, you give a manager time and he'll succeed. Give another manager this squad and he might not know what to do with it mid season without the option to bring players in and we end up going backwards, you end up in a spiral.

He needs till the end of the season and as long as we stay up and play more entertaining then he stays for next season. If we carry on only playing the second half of games and playing hoofball then its a no for me.

I want a manager that uses his midfield and plays entertaining football but there's so few British managers like that, I'd go for ROK or a foreign manager. ROK would hopefully be a SOD minus bringing on a defender with 10 mins to go for a striker and conceding late goals and the shit defending of corners.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: Chris Black come back on February 13, 2018, 10:49:10 pm
Or - were the crap bits of SOD actually all the doing of ROK? Who knows....
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: RoversAlias on February 13, 2018, 11:07:17 pm
Get rid and get Gareth ainsworth in

Him who their fans hate for his negative football? :lol:

I'm no Gareth Ainsworth fan but if Wycombe fans are complaining at being 3rd in the league they need to get some perspective.

That reminds me of another club's fans about 9-10 months ago...
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: The Red Baron on February 13, 2018, 11:19:34 pm
I'm not calling for his head but that performance was totally unacceptable on any level. I have to wonder if he can get the best out of the players at his disposal. All three midfielders were shocking tonight. I don't think Kongolo should still be here, but Whiteman and Houghton are just not performing at the level they are capable of. And Tommy Rowe is being wasted at left back, although I didn't think he played particularly well tonight.

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark, to coin a phrase. We dodged a bullet on Saturday, not so tonight. If there isn't a big improvement on Saturday then I might be be persuaded that changing the manager offers our best chance of staying up this season.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: Akinfenwa on February 14, 2018, 12:03:33 am
I too dislike the short termism when it comes to hiring/firing managers, but I don't think just giving any old manager plenty of time guarantees that things will work out either. Being too patient with the wrong manager could end up being just as detrimental as knee-jerk short-termism.

There's clearly a balance to be struck and the manager deserves time to get things right. However if the manager proves incapable of showing sufficient progression towards the long term goals then I think you'd be mad not to consider your options IMO.

Fergie will fall into that category if it looks like he can't hack it in League 1 (again) with a supposedly decent budget. If he struggles to keep the club in the league and the football is far from encouraging then what's the point?
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on February 14, 2018, 12:35:31 am
What worries me and many others I guess, is the drop in performance levels of too many players.

We know it's a team performance that matters but players like Houghton and Whiteman who were worthy of 7 or 8/10 performances are now struggling for 5s or 6s. They just don't seem to be doing what they're capable of. We can't sustain anything if only a couple of players achieve 7/10 each week.

It's not a new phenomenon so, it points to DF doing the same things and expecting better results.

In his defence though, or rather our central defence is made up players who have mustered half a dozen appearances between them. We need Baudry back pronto and Butler as soon as possible.

Once again, the character of the players is going to be seriously tested.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: Rovers91 on February 14, 2018, 06:15:30 am
DF is a good manager but like most managers he needs consistency from his players .when you don’t get two games the same it’s hard to explain how he can take things to another level. I believe our poor preseason has layed the foundation for where we are now . Players coming in on loan then injuries, then more loans coming in . This is not a team but a jig saw . The solution has to lay in getting to player signed up from the start and with sufficient experience at level required.

How are players meant to get consistency when he doesn't know his best team or formation and is constantly tinkering with the team. The blame is with the manager and not players. He got us relegated when we shouldn't have, we finished 3rd in a one horse race and now performances are heading to another relegation battle even though the players he has are better than that.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: DonnyOsmond on February 14, 2018, 07:54:18 am
DF is a good manager but like most managers he needs consistency from his players .when you don’t get two games the same it’s hard to explain how he can take things to another level. I believe our poor preseason has layed the foundation for where we are now . Players coming in on loan then injuries, then more loans coming in . This is not a team but a jig saw . The solution has to lay in getting to player signed up from the start and with sufficient experience at level required.

How are players meant to get consistency when he doesn't know his best team or formation and is constantly tinkering with the team. The blame is with the manager and not players. He got us relegated when we shouldn't have, we finished 3rd in a one horse race and now performances are heading to another relegation battle even though the players he has are better than that.

You adapt to the opposition in front of you...

If the team you feel plan B would be better against the team you're up against then he should play plan B, you don't stick to plan A blindly.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: Campsall rover on February 14, 2018, 08:36:43 am
DF is a good manager but like most managers he needs consistency from his players .when you don’t get two games the same it’s hard to explain how he can take things to another level. I believe our poor preseason has layed the foundation for where we are now . Players coming in on loan then injuries, then more loans coming in . This is not a team but a jig saw . The solution has to lay in getting to player signed up from the start and with sufficient experience at level required.

How are players meant to get consistency when he doesn't know his best team or formation and is constantly tinkering with the team. The blame is with the manager and not players. He got us relegated when we shouldn't have, we finished 3rd in a one horse race and now performances are heading to another relegation battle even though the players he has are better than that.

You adapt to the opposition in front of you...

If the team you feel plan B would be better against the team you're up against then he should play plan B, you don't stick to plan A blindly.
That’s working well isn’t it?
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: DearneValleyRover on February 14, 2018, 08:42:37 am
Playing a 4-4-2 formation was getting us results, we were competitive even if not winning and solid but he tinkers with the diamond and 3-5-2 which don't work, it's this aspect which is so infuriating.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: DonnyOsmond on February 14, 2018, 08:44:34 am
DF is a good manager but like most managers he needs consistency from his players .when you don’t get two games the same it’s hard to explain how he can take things to another level. I believe our poor preseason has layed the foundation for where we are now . Players coming in on loan then injuries, then more loans coming in . This is not a team but a jig saw . The solution has to lay in getting to player signed up from the start and with sufficient experience at level required.

How are players meant to get consistency when he doesn't know his best team or formation and is constantly tinkering with the team. The blame is with the manager and not players. He got us relegated when we shouldn't have, we finished 3rd in a one horse race and now performances are heading to another relegation battle even though the players he has are better than that.

You adapt to the opposition in front of you...

If the team you feel plan B would be better against the team you're up against then he should play plan B, you don't stick to plan A blindly.
That’s working well isn’t it?

I'm not saying he's picking the best plan A and B possible or the ones I would but you have to have different options and adapt.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: acko on February 14, 2018, 08:54:41 am
Its not a problem weather should stay or go,the problem goes deeper his relationship with the chairman is rocky to say the least.Survival this season is a must and IMO we should have enough points in hand to do this.Then at the end of season give him a bigger enough budgett so he can build is own side instead of all these loan players.Its something hes never had and if another manager took over working with the same restraints would find it very difficult.The board dont seem to be interested in what goes on on the playing side but there again we dont have a John Ryan or Dick Watson at the club who were both passionate about the club.IMO either DF will go or the current chairman before the season ends and i know which way i would vote but i fear it will be the other one what stays
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: phil old leake on February 14, 2018, 09:13:04 am
Stick with DF until the end of the season. I think we have just about enough to survive. End of season and review it then   Changing now and it will go 2 ways. 
The way things are going I think we can say goodbye to Houghton signing on a permanent
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: Campsall rover on February 14, 2018, 09:15:30 am
Its not a problem weather should stay or go,the problem goes deeper his relationship with the chairman is rocky to say the least.Survival this season is a must and IMO we should have enough points in hand to do this.Then at the end of season give him a bigger enough budgett so he can build is own side instead of all these loan players.Its something hes never had and if another manager took over working with the same restraints would find it very difficult.The board dont seem to be interested in what goes on on the playing side but there again we dont have a John Ryan or Dick Watson at the club who were both passionate about the club.IMO either DF will go or the current chairman before the season ends and i know which way i would vote but i fear it will be the other one what stays
Nothing to do with budgets. We have a competitive budget for this league almost certainly it is a top 10 budget.
The problem is 1) We don’t have a set way of playing a system that fits the players we have.
2) A manager who tinkers with formations match after match and during matches sometimes 3/4 times in the same match.
2) A manager who plays two of ou most creative forward ( attacking midfielders ) as conventional full backs in a 4 or wing backs in a 3/5
The only people at fault are Ferguson & Strachan. Not the players. The players don’t are confued, disjointed, and are NOW SERIOUSLY LACKING IN SELF BELIEF & CONFIDENCE abased on what I saw last night.
Time for a new voice in the dressing room. I would give him his P45 on Saturday at 5-00pm unless we see a huge transformation on Saturday and it will have to be huge to even beat what I think is pretty  poor Fleetwood team.
I would make Russ Wilcox caretaker manager and let the board take their time in finding the right man to take us forward.
Any thoughts from others out there on this would be good to hear.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: anton123 on February 14, 2018, 09:42:55 am
4-4 f**king 2 please on Saturday solid in the middle of the park and pace on the wings with blare n Alex come on fergi it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to work out
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: Cantley Rover on February 14, 2018, 09:51:09 am
He is obsessed with playing 3 at the back. It has never worked for us but he is so stubborn it is as if he is sticking with it to try and prove a point.
Ditch the 3 at the back and play with 2 centre backs and 2 full backs then we might have a chance of staying in this division.
Title: Re: Time as Come
Post by: dickos1 on February 14, 2018, 10:13:32 am
When we play 4 at the back and get beat or play shite nobody blames the system. But when it's 3 at the back it's the first thing people use.
We've won a few games this season with 3 at the back.