Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Copps is Magic on February 24, 2018, 12:10:44 pm

Title: Sent home
Post by: Copps is Magic on February 24, 2018, 12:10:44 pm
It seems reports are emerging approximately 100 of our fans have been sent home on order of the SY Police.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Copps is Magic on February 24, 2018, 12:13:40 pm
I may add, there's been no trouble reported as of yet, this seems to be pre-emptive.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Padge_DRFC on February 24, 2018, 12:14:26 pm
5% of the away end empty. Stand where you wanna.

Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Mustapha-Dump on February 24, 2018, 12:14:51 pm
Walk ‘home’ to Bentley and get on there
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Filo on February 24, 2018, 12:16:18 pm
I may add, there's been no trouble reported as of yet, this seems to be pre-emptive.

If thats the case it stinks, SYP failed to do that in our home fixture
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: GazLaz on February 24, 2018, 12:18:25 pm
The fact that police can just send football fans home without question is disgraceful I think. It will have been because of what they were wearing and due to the fact they were making a bit of noise no doubt.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Copps is Magic on February 24, 2018, 12:19:28 pm
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/group-of-70-doncaster-rovers-fans-moved-out-of-rotherham-town-centre-by-police-1-9034172 (https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/group-of-70-doncaster-rovers-fans-moved-out-of-rotherham-town-centre-by-police-1-9034172)
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Filo on February 24, 2018, 12:23:39 pm
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/group-of-70-doncaster-rovers-fans-moved-out-of-rotherham-town-centre-by-police-1-9034172 (https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/group-of-70-doncaster-rovers-fans-moved-out-of-rotherham-town-centre-by-police-1-9034172)

The match commander is from the Doncaster area
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Lytham Rover on February 24, 2018, 12:25:17 pm
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/group-of-70-doncaster-rovers-fans-moved-out-of-rotherham-town-centre-by-police-1-9034172 (https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/group-of-70-doncaster-rovers-fans-moved-out-of-rotherham-town-centre-by-police-1-9034172)

Prevention is better than cure
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Padge_DRFC on February 24, 2018, 12:25:34 pm
That’s the end of that then their big day after 11 years ended with 5 minutes in the Sheffield postcode
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Campsall rover on February 24, 2018, 12:25:41 pm
5% of the away end empty. Stand where you wanna.
Not selfish are you Padge. Does’nt matter a jot about anyone else. What a considerate person yo are.
NOT.  :headbang:
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: charleydrfc on February 24, 2018, 12:26:17 pm
He's from stainy originally
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Filo on February 24, 2018, 12:29:00 pm
He's from stainy originally

Correct
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: anton123 on February 24, 2018, 12:30:21 pm
Any 1 want a ticket I’m at macdonalds in donny £20
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Copps is Magic on February 24, 2018, 12:31:14 pm
Quote
The Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2003 gives the police powers in designated areas to disperse groups of two or more where their presence or behaviour has resulted, or is likely to result, in a member of the public being harassed, intimidated, alarmed or distressed. The powers are controversial due to the discretion they accord to police and the infringements of individual's rights they entail.

In theory, then, if they 'disperse' they can go back to the game - bus/train/car.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: wesisback on February 24, 2018, 12:32:06 pm
Very poor form that. I'd love to know the criteria they've used to decide who gets sent home and who isn't. There will be plenty causing no trouble that are in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: mushRTID on February 24, 2018, 12:32:56 pm
It absolutely stinks it really does
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Filo on February 24, 2018, 12:34:55 pm
Very poor form that. I'd love to know the criteria they've used to decide who gets sent home and who isn't. There will be plenty causing no trouble that are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

There won't be any criteria, if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time then you'll get roped in, the Police are using a policy of guilty without trial
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: anton123 on February 24, 2018, 12:35:07 pm
Iv been sent home and made to sign a piece of paper that says if I return to Roth before 6 today I get £2500 fine or 3 months in nic , just for been in a pub before 10 o’clock was the excuse they gave me never been in trouble for fighting at football in my life gutted was looking forward to the game
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Copps is Magic on February 24, 2018, 12:37:11 pm
Iv been sent home and made to sign a piece of paper that says if I return to Roth before 6 today I get £2500 fine or 3 months in nic , just for been in a pub before 10 o’clock was the excuse they gave me never been in trouble for fighting at football in my life gutted was looking forward to the game

Sound disgusting mate. What did they threaten you with if you didn't sign?
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Filo on February 24, 2018, 12:38:04 pm
Iv been sent home and made to sign a piece of paper that says if I return to Roth before 6 today I get £2500 fine or 3 months in nic , just for been in a pub before 10 o’clock was the excuse they gave me never been in trouble for fighting at football in my life gutted was looking forward to the game

I should contact the FSF if I were you, if the pub was open at that time you have every right to enter it. What would they have done if you refused to sign the paper?
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: GazLaz on February 24, 2018, 12:38:07 pm
Iv been sent home and made to sign a piece of paper that says if I return to Roth before 6 today I get £2500 fine or 3 months in nic , just for been in a pub before 10 o’clock was the excuse they gave me never been in trouble for fighting at football in my life gutted was looking forward to the game

Did it kick off at all??
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: anton123 on February 24, 2018, 12:38:57 pm
Prob get locked up of £500 fine I’m discussed and will be complaining to South Yorkshire police
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Copps is Magic on February 24, 2018, 12:39:37 pm
Are our fans being disproportionately targeted? It seems whenever a big following comes to Donny they have the run of the town but when we take a big following they close down entire towns (Mansfield, Rotherham)
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: anton123 on February 24, 2018, 12:40:40 pm
They said there was a scuffle earlier reported so just sent every one in the weatherspoons home and now they moved on to the bridge (an away pub and sent them home ) ???
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Filo on February 24, 2018, 12:40:45 pm
Prob get locked up of £500 fine I’m discussed and will be complaining to South Yorkshire police

If you refused to sign the paper what could they lock you up for?

What would they charge you with?
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: silent majority on February 24, 2018, 12:41:33 pm
I think you should be contacting me with all the info you have. Send me a pm with contact details.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Filo on February 24, 2018, 12:43:20 pm
I think you should be contacting me with all the info you have. Send me a pm with contact details.

Well you have the match commabers name in that link to pass on to the FSF
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: ian1980 on February 24, 2018, 12:44:27 pm
Surely they can’t just walk into a pub and send everyone home....
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: anton123 on February 24, 2018, 12:44:38 pm
Silent Iv thrown the paper work away but they took my name and address etc and gave me a disorder clearence out of town
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Filo on February 24, 2018, 12:47:54 pm
Silent Iv thrown the paper work away but they took my name and address etc and gave me a disorder clearence out of town

Surely there are people you are with that still have the paperwork to follow this up
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: anton123 on February 24, 2018, 12:49:27 pm
There will be loads with the paper work as there is about 100 given them not all from same group
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: DonnyOsmond on February 24, 2018, 12:55:43 pm
So there was no trouble which led to this?
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: silent majority on February 24, 2018, 12:57:36 pm
Silent Iv thrown the paper work away but they took my name and address etc and gave me a disorder clearence out of town

Can you get somebody else with the paperwork? Make sure everybody holds on to what they have, individual assesments have to be carried out
 They can't treat everybody the same as one group.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Filo on February 24, 2018, 01:00:37 pm
Quote
Failure to comply with the direction to leave is a criminal offence.  Failure to surrender items is also a criminal offence.

The Court of Appeal in Carter v CPS [2009] EWHC 2197 (Admin) considered the conduct of proceedings involving the breach of directions given under a dispersal order.  The effect of the judgment is that all relevant documents should be made available to the court at the first hearing to enable it to ascertain whether the authorisation was admitted by the defence.

At the first hearing, the court will ask whether or not the validity of the authorisation is admitted.  If it is not admitted, the case should be put back for a short time on the same day to enable the defendant to consider the relevant documents.  If the defence seeks to challenge the authorisation, the question will arise whether the validity of the authorisation is a matter to be determined by the magistrates or by challenge to the High Court.  The Divisional Court in Carter v CPS [2009] EWHC 2197 (Admin) did not give guidance on the factors to consider in making this determination.

The Crown must prove all elements of the offence:

The authorisation was in effect and was valid
The officer was in uniform
The direction was given inside the relevant locality
The defendant knew that he was being given a direction under the authorisation
The direction given was lawful
The defendant failed to comply with the direction.
It is essential that a copy of the authorisation and the written notice are submitted to the CPS as part of the initial file provided by the police.  The CPS must have these documents in order to prove the validity as an element of the offence.

In order to prove that the officer acted lawfully, the validity of the authorisation must be proved.  It is suggested that the officer of the rank of inspector or above who gave the authorisation makes a s9 Criminal Justice Act 1967 (CJA) statement at the time he signs the authorisation confirming that he made it, setting out the brief grounds for his decisions and exhibiting the authorisation.  A copy of this statement can be used in all subsequent prosecutions.

A police officer seeking to give a direction pursuant to the authorisation and written notice should ensure that the terms of the direction are clear, for example, when the person must leave the area and the manner in which the person must do so (including the route).

The word 'disperse' is not defined in the Act.  The dictionary definition is 'to scatter, to go or drive or send in different directions'.  It is submitted that when an officer tells a group to disperse, this means they should all leave the area.

Sentencing
A person given a direction under s35 who fails without reasonable excuse to comply with it commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction -

(a) To imprisonment for a period not exceeding 3 months, or

(b) To a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.

A person given a direction under s37 who fails without reasonable excuse to comply with it commits an offence.  A person guilty of an offence under s37(3) is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 2 on the standard scale.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: wesisback on February 24, 2018, 01:11:20 pm
Is there a process if these disorder clearances are false to claim compensation from the Police? If there is I hope every single one of them claims even though it still won't make up for the loss of the day.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Friendly Miller on February 24, 2018, 01:26:00 pm
Stinks! Why does it being a free country go out the window when it comes to football fans?

I was once sent home from Scunthorpe train station with 2 of my kids just for being in a train station when other fans started chanting.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: raggytash on February 24, 2018, 01:34:34 pm
The copper in charge sounds a right t**t.... I think it would be a good idea if syp had the football intelligence officer at meet the owners meetings.... how can you justify a 41 year old and 2 daughters getting a dispersal order?? Absolutely disgusting especially when you think back Rotherham walked around town .....
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: normal rules on February 24, 2018, 01:38:42 pm
Quote
The Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2003 gives the police powers in designated areas to disperse groups of two or more where their presence or behaviour has resulted, or is likely to result, in a member of the public being harassed, intimidated, alarmed or distressed. The powers are controversial due to the discretion they accord to police and the infringements of individual's rights they entail.

In theory, then, if they 'disperse' they can go back to the game - bus/train/car.

a dispersal order will usually encompass a town centre and lasts for 24hrs. This would mean going to the game would be a breach of the order and therefore liable to arrest.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: RobTheRover on February 24, 2018, 01:43:12 pm
I'm with Martin now.

If anyone has the dispersal order notice please keep hold of it. We will put up more info later today. The notices have to be individually served upon you and have a reason why they have been served. It is not acceptable to issue "block" dispersal notices.

To answer the question regarding whether you can refuse to sign one, the answer is no you can't. You have to comply and then deal with it later through a different process.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Padge_DRFC on February 24, 2018, 01:44:54 pm
5% of the away end empty. Stand where you wanna.
Not selfish are you Padge. Does’nt matter a jot about anyone else. What a considerate person yo are.
NOT.  :headbang:

Where’s your - ? Poor from a vsc regular poster.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Padge_DRFC on February 24, 2018, 01:48:22 pm
I think the other 70 kicked a few kids in knew they’d get threw out of Rotherham when the real misters arrived and claimed a victory
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Filo on February 24, 2018, 01:51:52 pm
I'm with Martin now.

If anyone has the dispersal order notice please keep hold of it. We will put up more info later today. The notices have to be individually served upon you and have a reason why they have been served. It is not acceptable to issue "block" dispersal notices.

To answer the question regarding whether you can refuse to sign one, the answer is no you can't. You have to comply and then deal with it later through a different process.

For any on here that use the FB group, it would be useful to post this up there, this is not about VSC v FB group or individual disagreements, it's about infringing the rights of football fans in general
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: wesisback on February 24, 2018, 01:54:46 pm
I've asked Crofty to do it as I'm not in the group anymore.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Copps is Magic on February 24, 2018, 01:56:12 pm
Going off the facebook group it seems a good percentage of those dispersed have been successful in selling their tickets.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: bobjimwilly on February 24, 2018, 02:21:21 pm
its disgusting they can do this. I'm sure there were many innocent fans in that pub at the time who had no intention of causing trouble or even any history of doing so.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: colincramb on February 24, 2018, 02:21:59 pm
Going off the facebook group it seems a good percentage of those dispersed have been successful in selling their tickets.

Hopefully not to Rotherham fans
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: raggytash on February 24, 2018, 02:44:18 pm
I’d love to hear the reason why Rotherham fans can casually go to donny market areas with no escort or problem but donny youth mob yes I agree 70 plus is stopped straight away and sent back? Donny police are a bunch of fkg jobsworths and are shite at there job.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on February 24, 2018, 03:10:28 pm
I’d love to hear the reason why Rotherham fans can casually go to donny market areas with no escort or problem but donny youth mob yes I agree 70 plus is stopped straight away and sent back? Donny police are a bunch of fkg jobsworths and are shite at there job.

I suppose you think that Donny police should have indiscriminately chucked dispersal orders about left, right and centre too in order to have made you think they were doing their job properly then.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: PDX_Rover on February 24, 2018, 03:34:02 pm
There has to be legal recourse to this for fans with tickets. Appalling.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: raggytash on February 24, 2018, 04:10:47 pm
Tell me one fan fan who got one then???? Either side???
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: The Beast on February 24, 2018, 05:33:06 pm
Think the problem is Rotherham is such a poxy little place the town centre just can't accommodate big numbers. The police were useless letting Rotherham fans up above us spit on us while hitting my mate with a baton who is registered disabled.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Padge_DRFC on February 24, 2018, 05:46:08 pm
South Yorkshire police are terrible at everything
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: StocktonRover on February 24, 2018, 05:54:51 pm
Disgraceful policing today.
All the focus was on the Donny fans with Rotherham fans left to do largely as they like.

Why on earth were all the police on the lower level leaving the ground looking for Donny fans to breathe out of turn while the Rotherham fans above us were not policed and free to hurl abuse and spit at us.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Chris Black come back on February 24, 2018, 05:57:01 pm
Going to be very difficult for South Yorkshire Police to take the mantle for Worst Derby Day Policing from reigning heavyweight champions 'Humberside' Police.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Dn11 on February 24, 2018, 05:57:39 pm
Not just me who was spat on then disgusting
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Jim Dobbin on February 24, 2018, 05:59:36 pm
The underpant gang.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: silent majority on February 24, 2018, 08:32:22 pm
To be fair, this is rapidly becoming a SY Police tactic when policing derby games. They did the same thing to large numbers of Scunthorpe fans when we played them at the Keepmoat just prior to Christmas.

On that occasion we couldn't get any Scunthorpe fans to allow us to pursue legal action on their behalf, I'm hoping that there will be some DRFC fans who won't mind being the subject of a legal case. Whilst ever football supporters allow this to happen it will continue.

The cynic in me would suggest that SY Police are using this as an argument to pursue financial gain from SY football clubs.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Mark Wills on February 24, 2018, 08:37:31 pm
I got spit on and my elder father was punched and I got a head but on he way to the car !
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Donnywolf on February 24, 2018, 08:58:20 pm
Disgraceful policing today.
All the focus was on the Donny fans with Rotherham fans left to do largely as they like.

Why on earth were all the police on the lower level leaving the ground looking for Donny fans to breathe out of turn while the Rotherham fans above us were not policed and free to hurl abuse and spit at us.

... and whose bright idea was Parking the Coaches there thus making the road even narrower - and most people having to clamber over a wall  due to being "pushed off the road"
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: drfchound on February 24, 2018, 09:11:33 pm
Not just me who was spat on then disgusting





There was a bottle thrown down onto us at one point as we left the ground, near where the coaches were parked.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: RobTheRover on February 24, 2018, 11:28:45 pm
Rotherham fans hurling abuse down at the Rovers fans walking on the lower path. Cops in riot gear walking with the Rovers fans said precisely nothing at all.

SY police overtime bill?
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Bristol Red Rover on February 24, 2018, 11:44:29 pm
Rotherham fans hurling abuse down at the Rovers fans walking on the lower path. Cops in riot gear walking with the Rovers fans said precisely nothing at all.

SY police overtime bill?

What a legend protecting his fans, probs why he had to be subbed before the whistle.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: RobTheRover on February 25, 2018, 12:23:48 am
Lol
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: anton123 on February 25, 2018, 08:31:33 am
I was absolutely gutted to be sent home yesterday and was going to complain to syp police today but might send them a thank you letter now instead after a collapse like that 😂
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Wellington Vaults on February 25, 2018, 08:48:07 am
donny youth mob

That probably gives the game away tbh.  You turn up, wearing all the clobber, at 9am, calling yourself a “mob” and you are playing into the Police’s hands.  They monitor social media in advance of fixtures like this you know?

It would appear that brighter, more savvy, elements of Rover’s support, turned up early and avoided the SYP dragnet.  It’s not hard and often involves nothing more scientific than choosing a different pub to the Hoi Polloi.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: deebee on February 25, 2018, 09:16:50 am
All the above is the very reason I decided not to go.
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on February 25, 2018, 09:46:34 am
Was a bit hairy at the end, starting in the stadium when their fan ran in front goading. Loads of our chavs went piling down the steps with no regard for anyone else,  including a mum and her young daughter who were in the way when trying to make an orderly exit. Had she have not been pulled to safety, the idiots would have just trodden over the top of her and her daughter.

Then outside, you could see it coming. Some banter but also over the top abuse from a few fans on both sides leads to the inevitable when a minority lose perspective and their heads. There's always innocent bystanders getting caught up in it.

I can understand why folk are put off going although when you go to away games, you accept there's  some risk and thankfully most will minimise the risk by behaving respectfully.
A minority won't.

The exit from the stadium is nearly as bad as death alley at Millmoor. 
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Filo on February 25, 2018, 11:24:02 am
The egress from the away end at Rotherham is built for trouble, they've shoe horned a stadium into a site without adequate infrustructure to serve the stadium
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Donnywolf on February 25, 2018, 11:25:31 am
donny youth mob

That probably gives the game away tbh.  You turn up, wearing all the clobber, at 9am, calling yourself a “mob” and you are playing into the Police’s hands.  They monitor social media in advance of fixtures like this you know?

It would appear that brighter, more savvy, elements of Rover’s support, turned up early and avoided the SYP dragnet.  It’s not hard and often involves nothing more scientific than choosing a different pub to the Hoi Polloi.

Like Wetherspoons. Bouncer " Are you home fans" to me and mate
Me "Home Fans for what - Football ?"
Bouncer "Yes"
Me "No sorry - Beer Fan only"
Bouncer "OK Mate in you go"

Place packed with Millers Fans - no trouble. My mate even drank "Mighty Millers" Bitter from Chantry which was better than most of the rest of the day !
Title: Re: Sent home
Post by: Donnywolf on February 25, 2018, 11:30:23 am
The egress from the away end at Rotherham is built for trouble, they've shoe horned a stadium into a site without adequate infrustructure to serve the stadium

It will be adequate for most games they play and perhaps not even deployed v Shrewsbury Bury et al

However you are right - its inadeaquate when they do use it. Everything about it is worng except the "idea" of segregation.

Ideally the away fans should go Anti Clockwise leaving "them" the reat of the exits. It matters little cos after being abused from above (that would vanish) and herded through a gap too narrow for the Crown (that would vanish) - we ended up within 2 minutes running into "them" coming to get their Cars just by the Station AND at the Station it was a scrum of opposing Fans anyway

Bizarre