Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: mushRTID on February 24, 2018, 05:32:24 pm
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Sorry Dickos but that’s just how I’m feeling
How have we lost that?
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Why? Played the right way against the in-form team in the league and narrowly lost to a dodgy penalty in the 103rd minute.
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Why? Played the right way against the in-form team in the league and narrowly lost to a dodgy penalty in the 103rd minute.
Because they were shocking and we’ve somehow lost. When do we look like learning?
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In 2018 we have played ten games in League One.
Won one game, drawn six games, lost three games.
Ten games, less than point a game average.
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I thought we played ok today a draw a fair result but that defending by wright was shocking
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In 2018 we have played ten games in League One.
Won one game, drawn six games, lost three games.
Ten games, less than point a game average.
I don’t know how anyone who went today can understand how we lost that FROM THAT POSITION.
Literally when the injury board went up they’d not had a shot. What happened?
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In 2018 we have played ten games in League One.
Won one game, drawn six games, lost three games.
Ten games, less than point a game average.
And we're 14th, arguably pretty much our level for this season taking all into account.
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After a performance like that and how unlucky we were it's absolutely ridiculous to dig out the manager.
But if you've always wanted him out then I suppose it's just another excuse to say it
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Time to go online and order my ticket for next week
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After a performance like that and how unlucky we were it's absolutely ridiculous to dig out the manager.
But if you've always wanted him out then I suppose it's just another excuse to say it
Who’s always wanted him out?
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In 2018 we have played ten games in League One.
Won one game, drawn six games, lost three games.
Ten games, less than point a game average.
You really are daft
So now your meaningless stat doesn't work you have changed it to ten games just so it works.
End of the day we have 42 points from 35 games so it makes a nonsense of your pathetic stat
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There is no point having this argument again.
For those that want Ferguson to stay, there is always an explanation for the results - playing teams in form, playing teams out of form but being due a victory, playing teams in top half, playing teams in bottom half - there is always a reason.
For those that want Ferguson to go, you have to realise that there is no way this Board is going to get rid of him this season. He is here to stay come what may until the summer.
It is looking a little dodgy now given our run of form and also now the final relegation spot is, with games in hand being won (which they rarely are), having potential for being on same points as us. I still think though that we will just stay up with just short of 50 points, which is around his recent League One record of around a point a game.
The question is what do we do at end of season?
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After a performance like that and how unlucky we were it's absolutely ridiculous to dig out the manager.
But if you've always wanted him out then I suppose it's just another excuse to say it
Who’s always wanted him out?
Lots of people who will be on here tonight,
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In 2018 we have played ten games in League One.
Won one game, drawn six games, lost three games.
Ten games, less than point a game average.
You really are daft
So now your meaningless stat doesn't work you have changed it to ten games just so it works.
End of the day we have 42 points from 35 games so it makes a nonsense of your pathetic stat
Have a cuppa and calm down dear!
These are objective facts. Pour yourself a cup and put on Radio 3. Breathe deeply..
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After a performance like that and how unlucky we were it's absolutely ridiculous to dig out the manager.
But if you've always wanted him out then I suppose it's just another excuse to say it
Who’s always wanted him out?
Lots of people who will be on here tonight,
You’re guessing. I’m the only one who’s said it tonight. And it’s the first time I have.
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Before the season started everyone would be delighted with midtable.
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Over Christmas we beat Bristol Rovers, Northampton and Rochdale.
We then drew against Peterborough, Plymouth, Shrewsbury and Scunthorpe. All of whom were either in-form or challenging for promotion/play-offs.
We then lost our last defender against Bristol Rovers and lost.
We then draw against two more decent sides in Charlton and Portsmouth.
The Walsall shambles, which in these games I've mentioned is probably easily our worst performance.
Easily beat Fleetwood.
Narrowly lose to in-form Rotherham in the 103rd minute.
So we're drawing against decent teams, beating the worst teams, had bad luck against Bristol Rovers at home and one terrible result against Walsall and people want him gone. The short termism is hilarious. If we win like 7 out of 10 would people be calling for a knighthood and freedom of the town?
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What a surprise there's another one of these threads. Load of rubbish and I think I'll not bother wasting my time on here tonight.
We worked really hard today, deserved something out of the game but their one-dimensional hoof into the box tactic was always going to pay off eventually. Beat Bury next week and I won't give a shit about this result anymore.
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After a performance like that and how unlucky we were it's absolutely ridiculous to dig out the manager.
But if you've always wanted him out then I suppose it's just another excuse to say it
Who’s always wanted him out?
Lots of people who will be on here tonight,
You’re guessing. I’m the only one who’s said it tonight. And it’s the first time I have.
To be honest I didn't look who'd posted it! As it mentioned me I presumed it was one of the usuals!
It's a terrible end to a game and everyone looks for something to blame, but we were so close to one of the best results we've had in a few years
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What a surprise there's another one of these threads. Load of rubbish and I think I'll not bother wasting my time on here tonight.
We worked really hard today, deserved something out of the game but their one-dimensional hoof into the box tactic was always going to pay off eventually. Beat Bury next week and I won't give a shit about this result anymore.
Good post! :thumbsup:
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It is looking a little dodgy now given our run of form and also now the final relegation spot is, with games in hand being won (which they rarely are), having potential for being on same points as us. I still think though that we will just stay up with just short of 50 points, which is around his recent League One record of around a point a game.
Not actually true.
Theoretically, if they all win their games in hand then Bury are 10 points behind us, MKDons 7, Northampton 4 and Fleetwood 2.
Rochdale could be one point behind but would need to gain 15 points from 5 games to do so.
Wimbledon would be one point behind, and Oldham level
4 of those teams need to catch us.
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Good stattery as ever Dutch. My point was not quite that sophisticated though - Oldham currently occupy the last relegation spot and win their games in hand (unlikely as I said) then they would be on same current points as us (which is true). We wouldn't of course be in drop zone, which is why I didn't make that point - but rather we are within striking distance of the misfiring and misfortunate currently below us.
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What a surprise there's another one of these threads. Load of rubbish and I think I'll not bother wasting my time on here tonight.
We worked really hard today, deserved something out of the game but their one-dimensional hoof into the box tactic was always going to pay off eventually. Beat Bury next week and I won't give a shit about this result anymore.
Don’t waste your time then. Have you never had doubts?
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Over Christmas we beat Bristol Rovers, Northampton and Rochdale.
We then drew against Peterborough, Plymouth, Shrewsbury and Scunthorpe. All of whom were either in-form or challenging for promotion/play-offs.
We then lost our last defender against Bristol Rovers and lost.
We then draw against two more decent sides in Charlton and Portsmouth.
The Walsall shambles, which in these games I've mentioned is probably easily our worst performance.
Easily beat Fleetwood.
Narrowly lose to in-form Rotherham in the 103rd minute.
So we're drawing against decent teams, beating the worst teams, had bad luck against Bristol Rovers at home and one terrible result against Walsall and people want him gone. The short termism is hilarious. If we win like 7 out of 10 would people be calling for a knighthood and freedom of the town?
Going from recent form of beating most of teams below us, drawing against better teams, with the odd defeat here and there.
Bury (H)
Southend (A)
Bradford (H)
Blackburn (H)
Blackpool (A) - Blackpool at Easter again wtf?
Wimbledon (H)
Gillingham (A)
MK Dons (A)
Oxford (H)
Oldham (A)
Wigan (H)
We should manage around 15 points IMO.
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Good stattery as ever Dutch. My point was not quite that sophisticated though - Oldham currently occupy the last relegation spot and win their games in hand (unlikely as I said) then they would be on same current points as us (which is true). We wouldn't of course be in drop zone, which is why I didn't make that point - but rather we are within striking distance of the misfiring and misfortunate currently below us.
Fair point CBCB, and I am certainly looking down the table rather than up at the moment.
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Yet again Dickos you totally miss the point. YES we would probably all accept a position of mid table mediocrity which is probably where we will end up. BUT how can you keep defending our added time capitulation week in week out.
It's not the fact that we lose games it is how we lose them. It really is becoming a standing joke whether we concede a corner or free kick in added time we know what's coming next.
Yes it may have been a poor decision for the penalty but should we have been in a position to give the referee the option of giving that penalty?
Is it a coincidence that we seem to concede a goal when we substitute Coppinger?
It is about game management and it more and more seems to me we have a manager who can't seem to manage those situations.
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What a surprise there's another one of these threads. Load of rubbish and I think I'll not bother wasting my time on here tonight.
We worked really hard today, deserved something out of the game but their one-dimensional hoof into the box tactic was always going to pay off eventually. Beat Bury next week and I won't give a shit about this result anymore.
Don’t waste your time then. Have you never had doubts?
I won't be doing. After logging off now I'm going to spend my evening away from the internet, away from football and I'll forget all about how I felt when that penalty got awarded.
I've had doubts about Fergie a few times but to come on here after that performance (I'm assuming you were there Mush, if not then this is a different conversation) and the manner of the defeat and say the manager is at fault or needs to be sacked is nonsense to me. He can't legislate for Anderson's injury, nor can he legislate for Marosi being unlucky in not getting to that loose ball first in the box. Or Wright not kicking it into touch as it ran on before that. These things happen in football and with the way Rotherham played, we did very well to keep them at bay for 80 minutes considering our track record with defending set pieces and crosses. Every player put a great shift in today, we deserved at least a point from the game and will hopefully be able to put it behind us next week and get a win that'd take us onto 45 points, almost touching distance to League One safety.
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Yet again Dickos you totally miss the point. YES we would probably all accept a position of mid table mediocrity which is probably where we will end up. BUT how can you keep defending our added time capitulation week in week out.
It's not the fact that we lose games it is how we lose them. It really is becoming a standing joke whether we concede a corner or free kick in added time we know what's coming next.
Yes it may have been a poor decision for the penalty but should we have been in a position to give the referee the option of giving that penalty?
Is it a coincidence that we seem to concede a goal when we substitute Coppinger?
It is about game management and it more and more seems to me we have a manager who can't seem to manage those situations.
Ferguson in his after match interview had no complaints about the penalty decision.
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Yet again Dickos you totally miss the point. YES we would probably all accept a position of mid table mediocrity which is probably where we will end up. BUT how can you keep defending our added time capitulation week in week out.
It's not the fact that we lose games it is how we lose them. It really is becoming a standing joke whether we concede a corner or free kick in added time we know what's coming next.
Yes it may have been a poor decision for the penalty but should we have been in a position to give the referee the option of giving that penalty?
Is it a coincidence that we seem to concede a goal when we substitute Coppinger?
It is about game management and it more and more seems to me we have a manager who can't seem to manage those situations.
Week in week out??
Can't discuss something with someone who is just making nonsense up.
we've also scored late goals to get something from games!
Scunny, charlton, Peterborough,
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No need for any over-reaction after today.
Going into the game I didn't expect anything in terms of a result although I thought that, with the team we had out, we'd at least give them a game. Which we did.
I just feel for the players because for lengthy periods they played well; we just got beasted at the death.
We're a young side but if we can get through this season, stay up and keep the core of the squad together then, with a couple of astute acquisitions, I think we could potentially do well next season.
We need a couple of leaders there's no doubt about that. You can see that's what we're missing.
As for the points we need; two wins, three draws. You'd have to think we can do that.
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Honestly thought the players played brilliantly up to their first goal. They battled and battled all game.
I think Fergie would get next to no criticism if he showed some ability to address our obvious weaknesses throughout the season (conceding from corners/crosses, conceding late goal, formations that don't work) but he seems to display a dogged tendency not to.
It's seriously zapping my enjoyment out of watching the team. It's just impossible to feel comfortable - like even to have an extended period of just playing well. Surely we should be aiming for that by now?
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It is like Brexit - I honestly think it best not to mention it as folk are so engrained.
Take the weakness at corners and set-pieces, and the propensity to run out of steam on occasions late in game.
To one side it is a sign of poor management not addressing a repeated weakness displayed by not the odd player, but by the team as a whole - suggesting it is a systemic rather than individual problem.
To the other side, it can be easily dismissed as work in progress or due to player turnover.
Best put this all to bed and revisit at end of season. Until then it is all hot air as folk are so split and also our Board is not going to do anything until May anyhow.
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I’ll put my cards on the table. A win and a draw will keep us up. I think we’ll get 54-55 points but we’ll not need more than 46.
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That is a bold prediction BST - we shall see. I can see your logic though.
Must admit I add half a pinch of salt ever since you predicted that Theo would be a double figure striker at Championship level (he has scored 0 in 20 League One games this season).
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Yet again Dickos you totally miss the point. YES we would probably all accept a position of mid table mediocrity which is probably where we will end up. BUT how can you keep defending our added time capitulation week in week out.
It's not the fact that we lose games it is how we lose them. It really is becoming a standing joke whether we concede a corner or free kick in added time we know what's coming next.
Yes it may have been a poor decision for the penalty but should we have been in a position to give the referee the option of giving that penalty?
Is it a coincidence that we seem to concede a goal when we substitute Coppinger?
It is about game management and it more and more seems to me we have a manager who can't seem to manage those situations.
Week in week out??
Can't discuss something with someone who is just making nonsense up.
we've also scored late goals to get something from games!
Scunny, charlton, Peterborough,
What is nonsense about conceding goals after the 80th minutes against each of the following teams?
Blackburn
Rochdale
Shrewsbury
Walsall
Rotherham (twice)
Oxford
Oldham
Portsmouth
Bristol Rovers
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Losing like that isn’t just “one of those things” unfortunately. It happens to us time and time again.
It’s a tactical problem and a mentality problem. We sat in inviting pressure as the second half wore on, and I could’ve written the script of what was going to happen.
Mentally, we can’t withstand any sort of pressure whatsoever. It’s all good winning games like last week against hopeless sides that don’t show up, but when we are seriously tested we fall to pieces.
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Your memory’s playing tricks on you CBCB. I’d assumed you’d be more on the ball given how obsessive you are on that topic.
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That is a bold prediction BST - we shall see. I can see your logic though.
Must admit I add half a pinch of salt ever since you predicted that Theo would be a double figure striker at Championship level (he has scored 0 in 20 League One games this season).
Don't knock BST's predictions, they are very useful for betting purposes and can be very financially rewarding.
Just read his forecasts and back the opposite!
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Yet again Dickos you totally miss the point. YES we would probably all accept a position of mid table mediocrity which is probably where we will end up. BUT how can you keep defending our added time capitulation week in week out.
It's not the fact that we lose games it is how we lose them. It really is becoming a standing joke whether we concede a corner or free kick in added time we know what's coming next.
Yes it may have been a poor decision for the penalty but should we have been in a position to give the referee the option of giving that penalty?
Is it a coincidence that we seem to concede a goal when we substitute Coppinger?
It is about game management and it more and more seems to me we have a manager who can't seem to manage those situations.
Week in week out??
Can't discuss something with someone who is just making nonsense up.
we've also scored late goals to get something from games!
Scunny, charlton, Peterborough,
What is nonsense about conceding goals after the 80th minutes against each of the following teams?
Blackburn
Rochdale
Shrewsbury
Walsall
Rotherham (twice)
Oxford
Oldham
Portsmouth
Bristol Rovers
sorry I thought you said added time capitulation week in week out!
Oh you did!!
So we've conceded in 10 games after the 80th minute is that really your point.
If so it's a shit one!
Most teams will have conceded after the 80th minute on numerous occasions.
How many have we scored after the 80th minute?
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Game management needs to be Bettet cops holds he ball why take him off
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If you want to know who the pessimists are take note of the usual glum heads on this thread
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Always good to be upbeat after conceding two later goal to lose the game against your local rivals.
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We’ve a lot in common BB. I frequently get things about the future wrong. You frequently get things about the present wrong.
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I just feel sick to my stomach after that. A Rotherham fan called Pete called in radio dee dah and summed it up well I thought.
We played well with our tactics but he made a good point that they went gunho to win the game whilst we tried to hold on for deer life towards the end instead of going for the kill when we were 1-0 up.
I’m just disappointed because we bring it on ourselves too often and we don’t learn from mistakes. The lead up to the penalty was just ridiculous, first by wright and then Marosi diving at the players feet when all he had to do was stand tall against him and usher him out.
Like I say, I feel sick to my stomach to lose to them lot like that and it’ll take some getting over.
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Did we have the conceding late issue last season? I've forgot.
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It is true that no rovers fan can be confident at 1-0 going into the last 10 min its got to the point where i don't flinch at the equaliser and even accept it as inevitable while just hoping we can keep it at a draw.
And to be honest i don't feel surprised when we end up losing from that position, disappointed but not even slightly surprised. The players must feel the same inevitability which is why it keeps happening.
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I'm not arguing cause it has been a problem earlier in the season.
But before today when was the last time it happened?
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Yet again Dickos you totally miss the point. YES we would probably all accept a position of mid table mediocrity which is probably where we will end up. BUT how can you keep defending our added time capitulation week in week out.
It's not the fact that we lose games it is how we lose them. It really is becoming a standing joke whether we concede a corner or free kick in added time we know what's coming next.
Yes it may have been a poor decision for the penalty but should we have been in a position to give the referee the option of giving that penalty?
Is it a coincidence that we seem to concede a goal when we substitute Coppinger?
It is about game management and it more and more seems to me we have a manager who can't seem to manage those situations.
Week in week out??
Can't discuss something with someone who is just making nonsense up.
we've also scored late goals to get something from games!
Scunny, charlton, Peterborough,
What is nonsense about conceding goals after the 80th minutes against each of the following teams?
Blackburn
Rochdale
Shrewsbury
Walsall
Rotherham (twice)
Oxford
Oldham
Portsmouth
Bristol Rovers
sorry I thought you said added time capitulation week in week out!
Oh you did!!
So we've conceded in 10 games after the 80th minute is that really your point.
If so it's a shit one!
Most teams will have conceded after the 80th minute on numerous occasions.
How many have we scored after the 80th minute?
I am sure that if we lost the next 6 games 3-0 with all the goals conceded after 80 minutes you would find some positives in it.
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I'm not arguing cause it has been a problem earlier in the season.
But before today when was the last time it happened?
Earlier this month against Portsmouth actually.
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No, but don't try and make a point and then when you realise it's nonsense change your point in the same arguement.
It's not happened for a long time where we've conceded in the last minute, we've actually been scoring goals in the last minute recently. But Theo's hardly gets mentioned and if it does then it's we were lucky or we got away with it
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I'm not arguing cause it has been a problem earlier in the season.
But before today when was the last time it happened?
Not sure but bet it wasn't that long ago either way its just a Doncaster Rovers trait for me not a manager issue its been like this for ages with donny, apart from the year we went up as champions, even under SOD it was a consistent trait
Be interesting to see if all other clubs fans think the same of their team, i.e. we just remember it better because its our team, or if we genuinely are terrible late on in games... i think its the latter unfortunately
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I'm not arguing cause it has been a problem earlier in the season.
But before today when was the last time it happened?
Earlier this month against Portsmouth actually.
Give over including added time there were 15 mins to go
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I bet over the season we have scored almost as many goals after the 85th minute as we have conceded.
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We was by fare the better side most of the game, it was not Ferguson's fault we got 2 terrible injurys now was it if they had stayed on we would of won I'm sure
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I'm not arguing cause it has been a problem earlier in the season.
But before today when was the last time it happened?
Earlier this month against Portsmouth actually.
Give over including added time there were 15 mins to go
I give in you win. You will never see anything wrong so no point discussing anything with you.
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I win what?
Showing you that the point you were trying to make was incorrect?
Earlier in the season we struggled with late goals, but since the turn of the year I don't agree we have, it happened today and you seem to have forgotten it hasn't happened for 2 or 3 months
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I bet over the season we have scored almost as many goals after the 85th minute as we have conceded.
We have scored 5 and conceded 10 but I'm sure you will find a reason for that in some weird kind of positive way.
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Not really no.
But I'm sure since the Oldham game in mid December today was the first time we'd conceded any late goals.
So we had obviously sorted it as we'd conceded 8 or 9 before that!
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Not really no.
But I'm sure since the Oldham game in mid December today was the first time we'd conceded any late goals.
So we had obviously sorted it as we'd conceded 8 or 9 before that!
So your not counting the goal Bristol Rovers scored in the 85th minute at the end of January then?
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Bristol Rovers 85min and Portsmouth 81min.
Balanced against that though were our goals in 90min v Scunthorpe, Peterborough and Charlton.
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In the first half today we were far and away much better than Rotherham and at half time I thought we might go on and win the match.
I think Anderson’s injury was a big turning point as he had dominated their forwards.
We all know about the “what happens when Coppinger comes off” fact but I was surprised that Ferguson made the decision to make the change as we were about to defend a free kick.
Now I know that Copps wouldn’t have been in there to head the ball away but not many managers make a change when they are about to defend a situation like that do they.
However the defenders were obviously distracted because the bloke headed in unchallenged.
It was an unusual thing to do when the player coming off wasn’t injured.
We were worth a point today and it is probably the worst I have felt all season at the end of a game.
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Not really no.
But I'm sure since the Oldham game in mid December today was the first time we'd conceded any late goals.
So we had obviously sorted it as we'd conceded 8 or 9 before that!
So your not counting the goal Bristol Rovers scored in the 85th minute at the end of January then?
We did say after the 85th minute but you can have that one if you really want it.
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Bristol Rovers 85min and Portsmouth 81min.
Balanced against that though were our goals in 90min v Scunthorpe, Peterborough and Charlton.
We did say after the 85th minute though
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I didn't though.
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You joined in a conversation and gave examples that were irrelevant then
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What's to say about Ferguson that hasn't been said a million times before?
He hasn't got a clue how to react when we're defending a point (or three) and the other team cranks up the pressure. Just defend the penalty area and hope for the best. Twelve!! points lost after the 85 minute mark this season tells its own story, yet only three gained in the same time period. He is truly a master of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
I don't know about anyone else but I'm sick of that humiliating feeling, like having your pants pulled down, conceding in the last minute again and again. And even worse, knowing that it's coming.
I'm tired of seeing the embarrassingly negative time wasting / stifling tactics deployed in these situations on a regular basis, despite the fact that it doesn't even f**king work half the time.
I'm frustrated with the half-baked idea that this team can just sit back, invite pressure and hope that we get lucky when defending endless waves of attacks, and offering very little threat at the other end. How many more times are we going to get our fingers burnt with this shit?
I'm annoyed at our incompetence when it comes to defending set-pieces. Ten goals conceded from these just in this calendar year, and it doesn't look like stopping.
So do I have ever increasing doubts with someone who delivers the above approach to football? Of course. And that's regardless of whether we stay up / finish mid-table or whatever this season.
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Post number 34 mentions the 80th minute, not the 85th.
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You joined in a conversation and gave examples that were irrelevant then
You asked the question "How many have we scored after the 80th minute?".
You literally set the parameters as being after the 80th minute.
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Cantley stated we had conceded 10 after the 85th min and scored 5.
We were just identifying that the majority of that ten were between august and mid December.
Up until today we hadn't conceded any after the 85th min since the Oldham game.
So we had managed to sort it out
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Over Christmas we beat Bristol Rovers, Northampton and Rochdale.
We then drew against Peterborough, Plymouth, Shrewsbury and Scunthorpe. All of whom were either in-form or challenging for promotion/play-offs.
We then lost our last defender against Bristol Rovers and lost.
We then draw against two more decent sides in Charlton and Portsmouth.
The Walsall shambles, which in these games I've mentioned is probably easily our worst performance.
Easily beat Fleetwood.
Narrowly lose to in-form Rotherham in the 103rd minute.
So we're drawing against decent teams, beating the worst teams, had bad luck against Bristol Rovers at home and one terrible result against Walsall and people want him gone. The short termism is hilarious. If we win like 7 out of 10 would people be calling for a knighthood and freedom of the town?
Going from recent form of beating most of teams below us, drawing against better teams, with the odd defeat here and there.
Bury (H)
Southend (A)
Bradford (H)
Blackburn (H)
Blackpool (A) - Blackpool at Easter again wtf?
Wimbledon (H)
Gillingham (A)
MK Dons (A)
Oxford (H)
Oldham (A)
Wigan (H)
We should manage around 15 points IMO.
Forget about Blackburn and Wigan but there are four or five winnable games in there. The others we should be looking to get a draw.
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Wish I could be as confident as you about four or five winnable games TRB.
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Bury, Bradford, mk dons, Oldham, oxford, Wimbledon, Blackpool,
We need to be getting at least ten points from these
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With the exception of Blackburn, Wigan & probably Gillingham none of those fixtures should overly worry us.
We’ll get at least 12, maybe 16 from those games.
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Having time to reflect... dead unlucky today. We were much the better team first half. They came at us second half. Anderson going off really turned the game. A draw was probably a fair result given their pressure in the last half hour.
The penalty. Never a penno. Ref totally mugged.
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With the exception of Blackburn, Wigan & probably Gillingham none of those fixtures should overly worry us.
We’ll get at least 12, maybe 16 from those games.
I wonder what the thoughts will be if we fail to get say, 10 or 12 points from those seven games.
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I’m pleased he has found someone else to argue with. :thumbsup:
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Bury, Bradford, mk dons, Oldham, oxford, Wimbledon, Blackpool,
We need to be getting at least ten points from these
I’m banking on 12/13 points from those above fixtures. But then i am always a positive half glass full person. Positive thinking. 56/57 min no of points final tally. :woohoo:
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1 win in 2018' tells me every game is going to be hard.
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right...
for everyone who thinks Ferguson is a shite manager, and Rovers are having a poor season, where exactly do you really think in your heart of hearts think we should be ?
we've existed, barely, in the second tier of english football for six seasons over the last sixty (count 'em - sixty) years; on the back of a multi-millionaire benefactor and his collusion with other well-monied individuals, who somehow enabled us to punch way above our weight for a short time before falling back to where we historically, and realistically, should be
look at the championship - there are probably two clubs that we can sensibly look at and think "we should be as good as them" (Brentford and Burton) - they are enjoying their outlier seasons in the sun, same as we did - replace them with blackburn and wigan, and there's arguably no-one in the higher level that we "should" replace based on any sensible criterion
even in league one, there are ten clubs or thereabouts who have a more rational claim to compete at a higher level - we're about where we should be, bobbing about in mid-table, hoping for the planets to align and a team of capable, well-adjusted players to coalesce more by luck than judgement; youth development seems to be at best treading water with regard to the number of genuine first team impact players who come through, we have no benefactor - it would take an absolute genius manager to get a play-off push out of the current squad, and genius managers - strangely enough - are few and far between
the angst on here at the perceived lack of upward momentum staggers me - but maybe i'm missing something - tell me why we should be doing better, how it should happen and for what quantifiable reasons other than blind faith and hope; to constantly criticise for reality not coming up to scratch compared to nothing more than pipe-dreams seems asinine, deluded almost - and don't get me started on moaning about the quality of performance in games where points are forthcoming...
maybe it's the demographic on here - more folk who started watching in the first decade of this century where promotions and visits to elland road, bramall lane, st andrews and the like were on the menu season after season rather than colchester, accrington and barnet - is it only miserable old gits who have any genuine sense of perspective on things ?
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With the exception of Blackburn, Wigan & probably Gillingham none of those fixtures should overly worry us.
We’ll get at least 12, maybe 16 from those games.
I wonder what the thoughts will be if we fail to get say, 10 or 12 points from those seven games.
8 games.
We need 8 points from 12 games so if we manage to get 10 from 8 games I would think everyone would be happy. As we'd be safe with another 4 games to go
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right...
for everyone who thinks Ferguson is a shite manager, and Rovers are having a poor season, where exactly do you really think in your heart of hearts think we should be ?
we've existed, barely, in the second tier of english football for six seasons over the last sixty (count 'em - sixty) years; on the back of a multi-millionaire benefactor and his collusion with other well-monied individuals, who somehow enabled us to punch way above our weight for a short time before falling back to where we historically, and realistically, should be
look at the championship - there are probably two clubs that we can sensibly look at and think "we should be as good as them" (Brentford and Burton) - they are enjoying their outlier seasons in the sun, same as we did - replace them with blackburn and wigan, and there's arguably no-one in the higher level that we "should" replace based on any sensible criterion
even in league one, there are ten clubs or thereabouts who have a more rational claim to compete at a higher level - we're about where we should be, bobbing about in mid-table, hoping for the planets to align and a team of capable, well-adjusted players to coalesce more by luck than judgement; youth development seems to be at best treading water with regard to the number of genuine first team impact players who come through, we have no benefactor - it would take an absolute genius manager to get a play-off push out of the current squad, and genius managers - strangely enough - are few and far between
the angst on here at the perceived lack of upward momentum staggers me - but maybe i'm missing something - tell me why we should be doing better, how it should happen and for what quantifiable reasons other than blind faith and hope; to constantly criticise for reality not coming up to scratch compared to nothing more than pipe-dreams seems asinine, deluded almost - and don't get me started on moaning about the quality of performance in games where points are forthcoming...
maybe it's the demographic on here - more folk who started watching in the first decade of this century where promotions and visits to elland road, bramall lane, st andrews and the like were on the menu season after season rather than colchester, accrington and barnet - is it only miserable old gits who have any genuine sense of perspective on things ?
Best post I've read on here in a very long time
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Bury, Bradford, mk dons, Oldham, oxford, Wimbledon, Blackpool,
We need to be getting at least ten points from these
With the exception of Blackburn, Wigan & probably Gillingham none of those fixtures should overly worry us.
We’ll get at least 12, maybe 16 from those games.
I wonder what the thoughts will be if we fail to get say, 10 or 12 points from those seven games.
8 games.
We need 8 points from 12 games so if we manage to get 10 from 8 games I would think everyone would be happy. As we'd be safe with another 4 games to go
I could have sworn I saw someone list seven games earlier and suggest we needed ten points from them.
Maybe not.
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right...
for everyone who thinks Ferguson is a shite manager, and Rovers are having a poor season, where exactly do you really think in your heart of hearts think we should be ?
we've existed, barely, in the second tier of english football for six seasons over the last sixty (count 'em - sixty) years; on the back of a multi-millionaire benefactor and his collusion with other well-monied individuals, who somehow enabled us to punch way above our weight for a short time before falling back to where we historically, and realistically, should be
look at the championship - there are probably two clubs that we can sensibly look at and think "we should be as good as them" (Brentford and Burton) - they are enjoying their outlier seasons in the sun, same as we did - replace them with blackburn and wigan, and there's arguably no-one in the higher level that we "should" replace based on any sensible criterion
even in league one, there are ten clubs or thereabouts who have a more rational claim to compete at a higher level - we're about where we should be, bobbing about in mid-table, hoping for the planets to align and a team of capable, well-adjusted players to coalesce more by luck than judgement; youth development seems to be at best treading water with regard to the number of genuine first team impact players who come through, we have no benefactor - it would take an absolute genius manager to get a play-off push out of the current squad, and genius managers - strangely enough - are few and far between
the angst on here at the perceived lack of upward momentum staggers me - but maybe i'm missing something - tell me why we should be doing better, how it should happen and for what quantifiable reasons other than blind faith and hope; to constantly criticise for reality not coming up to scratch compared to nothing more than pipe-dreams seems asinine, deluded almost - and don't get me started on moaning about the quality of performance in games where points are forthcoming...
maybe it's the demographic on here - more folk who started watching in the first decade of this century where promotions and visits to elland road, bramall lane, st andrews and the like were on the menu season after season rather than colchester, accrington and barnet - is it only miserable old gits who have any genuine sense of perspective on things ?
It is a very fair question to ask.
For all the reasons you cite, unless we do have a sudden and freak influx of finance beyond our self-generated resources (as JR and the KM2 provided c2006-2011 in particular) we are a League One side - albeit a competitive one. I see Championship football as a laudable aim but not one that is likely to arrive with any great regularity.
We are underperforming this season. We have I think only rarely been in the top half all season and have spent most of the season in or just above the bottom third. Yet we have a top 8 budget and our home gates are top 10. This after being relegated in 15/16 when I presume we were roughly similarly resourced, is a bit disappointing frankly.
So to answer the question, I would expect us this season to have been consistently in the top half. Not play offs, but certainly consistently in top half.
I would add as well for broad context, that after our last promotion upwards to the third tier (season 04/05) we finished 10th with 66 points (we are currently 24 points behind that total, at 42 points).
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Herman, your post really is a good one mate.
I started watching the Rovers in 1962 and for most of the years since then, as you say, we have been third of fourth tier and even worse than that at times.
For most of my early years of watching it was almost always fourth tier.
As you can see I have had my share of the hard times so getting to the Championship under SoD was unbelievable really.
I will never forget that day at Wembley.
Those golden years do give you a thirst for more though and it has been well versed by the club that they have a five year plan to make us a sustainable Championship club.
They have done their best to get the supporters to buy into that so in my view it isn’t unreasonable for us to want it again.
The avoidable relegation two years was hard to take and obviously bouncing straight back was great even though it was tinged with the disappointment of blowing what should have been a title win.
I am on record as saying that I will be delighted if we manage to finish in mid table this year and haven’t said that the manager should be sacked but I am often surprised at some of the things he does.
I would like to think that we could build on that over the next year or two and maybe, just maybe, get back to the Championship.
I am not silly though and understand that should we ever manage that we would inevitably find it very hard to stay there.
As hard as it would be though there are the good days to enjoy, beating some of the bigger clubs, seeing my team at the bigger venues.
I am very much in the old gits section of fans that you mention but still have hopes and ambitions so don’t feel bad about wanting my team to do well.
I know we can’t win every week but reserve the right to discuss what went wrong when we don’t without some posters calling me and others, moaners.
There is nothing wrong with having hopes and ambitions, is there?
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Against a team that has won 7 on the trot and not lost in around 12 league games it was going to take quite an effort to break their confidence and beat them but for those that can't accept that I'm not sure you are ever going to be happy with the results whatever league we're in and whomever we play. Sometimes reality is what it is, we come up against a better team that is in form. When you look at the scores from Rotherham's games and the teams they played we did no better or worse, give our players and manager a break ffs.
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I would add as well for broad context, that after our last promotion upwards to the third tier (season 04/05) we finished 10th with 66 points (we are currently 24 points behind that total, at 42 points).
that's spot on - great reference point, and what should perhaps have been the stated ambition from the off for the season; i think the nebulous "five year plan" may be the root cause of the dissatisfaction - a finite timescale for something that requires so many intangibles to fall in to place, just plays in to the hands of impatient sorts...
There is nothing wrong with having hopes and ambitions, is there?
not at all - if there are no hopes and ambitions, you might as well pack up watching the game altogether; the divisive criticism on here, though, does seem beyond the pale at times - it seems very much as if folk have expectations rather than dreams, that's what I find hard to stomach; if the club are fuelling such unrealistic aims, that's perhaps where the ire needs to be directed - not the saps put in place to oversee (manage !) progress, but i understand their imperative to appear forward thinking from a business point of view if nothing else. i think that a stated aim of year on year improvement would have been a far better approach than a fixed-term plan - particularly when you consider that any promotion achieved through incremental, organic growth is likely to be more sustainable than any overblown, shouting and screaming "going4it" approach....
hope this continues to generate plenty more thoughtful responses - restores the faith, a bit !
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For what it is worth, I agree with you that some of the posts on here are way OTT, on both sides of the DF fence.
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Bury, Bradford, mk dons, Oldham, oxford, Wimbledon, Blackpool,
We need to be getting at least ten points from these
With the exception of Blackburn, Wigan & probably Gillingham none of those fixtures should overly worry us.
We’ll get at least 12, maybe 16 from those games.
I wonder what the thoughts will be if we fail to get say, 10 or 12 points from those seven games.
8 games.
We need 8 points from 12 games so if we manage to get 10 from 8 games I would think everyone would be happy. As we'd be safe with another 4 games to go
I could have sworn I saw someone list seven games earlier and suggest we needed ten points from them.
Maybe not.
You replied to andysly, even quoted what he said in your post. So what does that have to do with what I said?
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I think that timing is everything. Had we been 2-0 down and pulled one back and finished strongly pushing for an equaliser fans would have gone home reasonably happy.
Being 1-0 up as the game is closing knowing our record of conceding late goals and seeing your worst football nightmare become reality is bound to upset fans. Especially to a local rival. After a few days things calm down.
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Wouldn't be as bad if it didn't seem to happen time and time again.
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Wouldn't be as bad if it didn't seem to happen time and time again.
That's the nail on the head really.
Ferguson has a lot of qualities as a manager. He's certainly got more of an idea than his predecessor by a long way. The massive frustration is less so with results, and more to do with a failure to acknowledge and address the same weaknesses that appear over and over again.
- late goals conceded owing to lack of mental strength and/or poor tactical decisions and substitutions
- susceptibility from set plays and aerial balls into the box
- dramatic collapses in form
- (to a lesser extent) lack of a "Plan C" when 442 diamond/352 and associated tactics don't work.
I don't think most people expect Championship football, at least not for the foreseeable, but what's management about if not continuous improvement and squeezing more and more out of your team?
I'm by no means part of the Ferguson out brigade, but the guy needs to wake up to the same problems that keep costing us.
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Wouldn't be as bad if it didn't seem to happen time and time again.
That's the nail on the head really.
Ferguson has a lot of qualities as a manager. He's certainly got more of an idea than his predecessor by a long way. The massive frustration is less so with results, and more to do with a failure to acknowledge and address the same weaknesses that appear over and over again.
- late goals conceded owing to lack of mental strength and/or poor tactical decisions and substitutions
- susceptibility from set plays and aerial balls into the box
- dramatic collapses in form
- (to a lesser extent) lack of a "Plan C" when 442 diamond/352 and associated tactics don't work.
I don't think most people expect Championship football, at least not for the foreseeable, but what's management about if not continuous improvement and squeezing more and more out of your team?
I'm by no means part of the Ferguson out brigade, but the guy needs to wake up to the same problems that keep costing us.
On reflection I do accept this thread may have been a little OTT. I can’t remember been as angry as I was after Saturdays game, so it was a poor time to come on here and post.
Your comments describe by feelings perfectly pib.
We’re just not learning and as frustrating as the end of the game was, nobody I spoke to was surprised about it.
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It would have been no good asking me owt after the Game. A few tried and apologies if you were one of these :
a) Hey mate which way to Station / Me "F*****g hell"
b) Where did we park the Car / Me "F*****g hell"
c) Would you like Chocolate sprinkles on your Coffee / Me "F*****g hell"
As I type this I believe I have improved a bit - as I have stopped using the 2 words above BUT still randomly beat my Steering Wheel or Worktop with a fist and a utter a simulataneous "b*****d (Things are looking up)
I know people say of games that was the best we Played / that was the worst we Played / thats the worst Ref we have ever had but in truth there were probably examples in the past that eclipsed each one BUT I think in truth I can believe I have ever been so utterly devastated after a Final whistle - including when we went out of the League
Someone may hep me with that of course !
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Against a team that has won 7 on the trot and not lost in around 12 league games it was going to take quite an effort to break their confidence and beat them but for those that can't accept that I'm not sure you are ever going to be happy with the results whatever league we're in and whomever we play. Sometimes reality is what it is, we come up against a better team that is in form. When you look at the scores from Rotherham's games and the teams they played we did no better or worse, give our players and manager a break ffs.
I can always accept losing. It’s going to happen. The problem is WE have lost that match on Saturday Rotherham DID NOT win it. We gave them 2 goals that were both preventable. We DO keep making the same mistakes time after time after time. This to me is what is so frustrating.
Basic dreading ie PUT IT INTO ROW Z and set pieces. How many is that it’s getting ridiculous.
In the first half at corners BEESTIN WAS MARKING SMITH. Can someone tell me what that was all about please?
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That’s defending not dreading. I need to proof read before posting :facepalm:
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It doesnt matter it made sense anyway - but you could edit it - and then remove the apology Post.
Its easy I have done it hundreds of times !
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I think we have a right to be livid after the game. Given our recent history of collapsing right at the death, it's inconceivable to me that Joe Wright didn't know what to do in that situation. It's inconceivable that DF hasn't talked through these scenarios in training and in the meetings/briefings. Given the tenacity Wright showed in normal time, how can he not know what to do???? 11, 500 people in the stadium knew what he should have done!!!
That's the frustrating thing, taking injuries aside, we have players who are capable of better standards. Given the right mental toughness, we could be right up there amongst it. I accept some of the young players are experiencing this sort of thing for the first time but we should have enough knowhow from the players and management to be able to see games out.
Get it sorted Darren.
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That’s defending not dreading. I need to proof read before posting :facepalm:
I think that there is a lot of basic dreading on set-pieces, though
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That’s defending not dreading. I need to proof read before posting :facepalm:
I think that there is a lot of basic dreading on set-pieces, though
We should hire Dr Dread, his meds would help.
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I have already advocated elsewhere that Row Z would be a good uption but perhaps he probably thought - instead of Row Z - if I tap it back to Marco he can launch it long and they will have a throw in (most likely) 30 yards from their goal instead of close to ours
Who knows - but the execution let him down as we know to our eternal cost !
This games outcome will be permanently lodged in my "crust" along with the likes of Stoke Wembley and Anfield (twice) unfortunately !
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Bury, Bradford, mk dons, Oldham, oxford, Wimbledon, Blackpool,
We need to be getting at least ten points from these
With the exception of Blackburn, Wigan & probably Gillingham none of those fixtures should overly worry us.
We’ll get at least 12, maybe 16 from those games.
I wonder what the thoughts will be if we fail to get say, 10 or 12 points from those seven games.
8 games.
We need 8 points from 12 games so if we manage to get 10 from 8 games I would think everyone would be happy. As we'd be safe with another 4 games to go
I could have sworn I saw someone list seven games earlier and suggest we needed ten points from them.
Maybe not.
You replied to andysly, even quoted what he said in your post. So what does that have to do with what I said?
Clearly, andyslys post was a follow on to yours that suggested we need ten points from the seven games you listed.
He never mentioned eight games, you did.
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Bury, Bradford, mk dons, Oldham, oxford, Wimbledon, Blackpool,
We need to be getting at least ten points from these
With the exception of Blackburn, Wigan & probably Gillingham none of those fixtures should overly worry us.
We’ll get at least 12, maybe 16 from those games.
I wonder what the thoughts will be if we fail to get say, 10 or 12 points from those seven games.
8 games.
We need 8 points from 12 games so if we manage to get 10 from 8 games I would think everyone would be happy. As we'd be safe with another 4 games to go
I could have sworn I saw someone list seven games earlier and suggest we needed ten points from them.
Maybe not.
You replied to andysly, even quoted what he said in your post. So what does that have to do with what I said?
Clearly, andyslys post was a follow on to yours that suggested we need ten points from the seven games you listed.
He never mentioned eight games, you did.
Can't you two just give it a rest?
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i was simply pointing out that andysly had replied to a post and my response had been linking the two together.
What is wrong with that?