Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Donnywolf on April 14, 2018, 06:12:36 am
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.... on infrastructure in Syria suspected of being part of their Chemical Weapons "arsenal"
USA UK and France in joint op
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Good as it's shocking what they're doing. But it's not just chemical weapons we should be concerned about. The country has killed thousands.
And still there are many who disagree with action.
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Should we be stocking up on tinned food and breathing apparatus?
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Good to see a PM with balls and who is not an appeaser
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Good to see a PM with balls and who is not an appeaser
She's just Trumps bitch
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I do not trust people in that part of the world, I am not sure TV is not manipulated, I am not sure some of the actions are not manipulated to get us involved, a lack of clarity as to who are the opposition leaders in Syria, who supplies them with the weapons to resist the state. And the lack of clarity in following up just how the supposed victims have recovered who were in the TV pictures, if indeed they are victims at all? Everything about the incident makes me doubt everything about whether it is a set up or not.
Having said all that, once the USA decide to go, we have to follow, Labour would do the same, and we have too many self promoting members of parliament to get an agreement on anything.
We are probably nearer to being a US state than a EU member at the moment, can we stop paying the MPs and Lords wages and save some money? and let them look after us.
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Selby
You “do not trust people in that part of the world”?
Dear God...
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Good to see a PM with balls and who is not an appeaser
I hope she doesn't have balls...
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Interesting article from the Tass news agency in Moscow.
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5124989/amp?__twitter_impression=true
It stresses that the missiles were not fired into any sector for which the Russians had air defence responsibilities.
Hopefully we take that as meaning that Russia accepts that its own forces were deliberately NOT targeted.
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Interesting article from the Tass news agency in Moscow.
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5124989/amp?__twitter_impression=true
It stresses that the missiles were not fired into any sector for which the Russians had air defence responsibilities.
Hopefully we take that as meaning that Russia accepts that its own forces were deliberately NOT targeted.
It just stinks of collusion between Russia and the West, the West tell Russia we have to do something, Russia says they have to be seen to oppose any bombing but agree to it, move their assets out of the way and the west bimb areas where there are no Russians, everyone is happy and the rhetoric can continue
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Of course there is this...
https://mobile.twitter.com/MEEPPSison/status/984987875736477696/photo/1
You want a conspiracy theory? Here’s one.
The FBI net is rapidly closing in on Trump regarding his collusion with Russia and their interference in getting him elected.
He IS Putin’s pawn. There is no doubt whatsoever about that. It’s just a case of waiting for the Soecial Investigator’s remorseless investigation to grind on and structure the evidence.
But in public relations terms, it would be great for Trump to be able to say “I’m NOT in Putin’s pocket. Hell I’ve been prepared to go to war against him.”
So Putin allows/encourages his man in Damascus to use chemical weapons. Or Putin has his own forces use them.
Which gives Trump an opportunity to show how big and tough and anti-Russian he is.
While in reality it’s all stage-managed for the TV viewing of the wavering Trump supporters.
Note that the bombing started late afternoon/early evening USA time. Just right to dominate the evening news and people’s evening Twittering...
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There is one major issue from our side.
May has had a week to recall Parliament and to put our involvement in these strikes to a vote. She CHOSE not to do so. Reportedly because she knew that she would lose the vote.
That’s British democracy in 2018.
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No doubt all these parts come in to it bst. There is much at work in all this.
The point for us in Britain though can we really watch whilst chemical weapons are used? Surely not?
Our role was also very very small..if anything about sending a message that we don't accept it etc. The overriding problem is that Syria is the battleground for most of the world right now.
As for parliament I don't know what to make on that. We never used to go parliament for every single action did we?
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Good to see a PM with balls and who is not an appeaser
I hope she doesn't have balls...
She has bigger ones than the great appeaser Corbyn
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There is one major issue from our side.
May has had a week to recall Parliament and to put our involvement in these strikes to a vote. She CHOSE not to do so. Reportedly because she knew that she would lose the vote.
That’s British democracy in 2018.
She didn’t have to, that’s British democracy in 2018
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The only way to sort the Syria mess out is for Russia and the West to work together, invade Syria take control and organise free and democratic elections in whats left of Syria, once that has been achieved organise a witdrawal and let them get on with it
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This attack has probably been fairly ineffective but needed to be done and imo should be doubled each time going forward.....it's worrying that it seems ineffective.
Corbyn is very wrong on this matter....talk with Assad and the Russians is he joking ?
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And still there are many who disagree with action.
[/quote]
Apparently, from polls, only 22% of Britons would support missile strikes as reported in the i today.
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This attack has probably been fairly ineffective but needed to be done and imo should be doubled each time going forward.....it's worrying that it seems ineffective.
Corbyn is very wrong on this matter....talk with Assad and the Russians is he joking ?
This is why Corbyn will never be PM, as great as his domestic policies sound, his international policies and pacifism are killing him and the Labour party
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There is one major issue from our side.
May has had a week to recall Parliament and to put our involvement in these strikes to a vote. She CHOSE not to do so. Reportedly because she knew that she would lose the vote.
That’s British democracy in 2018.
She didn’t have to, that’s British democracy in 2018
Henry V111th powers ?
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Take this to Parliament and wrongly imo the vote to strike Syria hard ( a lot harder than this attack ) .....and you would in all likelihood lose the vote again .
Action should have been taken last time.
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Strange, isn't it, that the financial future of the UK is decided by 'the people' but when it comes to deciding to launch an attack on another country the PM knows best?
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If you’re worried (as I am) about the normalisation of chemical weapons, and you want to stop their use, this is NOT the way to do it. This is box office for the people back home, but it doesn’t stop the development and use of those weapons.
The only way to stop Assad using them is to get Russia to pressurise him not to use them.
The only way to get Russia to do that is to pressurise them to act that way. By imposing ball-breaking sanctions on them. Seize the assets of Russian gangsters in London. Expel them from the UK and tell them they can’t have their kids educated here. Ban our companies from working in any way whatsoever with the big Russian firms.
That would do it. But it’s hard and it’s behind the scenes and it doesn’t make good TV. So instead we’ll chuck in a few missiles and call it job done.
f**k me, what a world...
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Here's a handy cut-out-and-keep guide to who supoorts/attacks who in the Syrian conflict.
No easy way of unravelling this ball of spaghetti!
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Have to agree with hoola don't see what option we had really, not sure how you get Russia to pressurize Syria as Putin seems to be pulling most of the strings and Putin is probably more dangerous than Assad
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Russia says Syrians shot down 71 out of 110 missile fired! Not good value in my view!
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Russia says Syrians shot down 71 out of 110 missile fired! Not good value in my view!
And you believe that?
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So now ex pats inCypress pooping themselves waiting for retaliation from Syria on RAF Akroutiri!
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Bpool.
I’ve set out an alternative above. Which bit of that don’t you agree with?
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So now ex pats inCypress pooping themselves waiting for retaliation from Syria on RAF Akroutiri!
That won't happen
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Russia says Syrians shot down 71 out of 110 missile fired! Not good value in my view!
They also didn't use chemicals on their ex spy......
Laughable from them this morning. "Sovereign nations should none attacked".
Ukraine anyone?
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Russia says Syrians shot down 71 out of 110 missile fired! Not good value in my view!
And you believe that?
The first casualty of war is truth as we all know
We over here have no idea even what capability "they" have to shoot anything down but imo I doubt if they stopped any inbound missile
Meanwhile wait for the probably fake pictures of the said Missiles hitting a) Hospitals b) Schools c) civilian areas
This may have happened of course but "we" will deny - as each side in both scenarios - will say the other side is the one lying !
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There won’t be any images of missiles hitting civilian targets. That would require a serious retaliation from the Russians and that’s the last thing they want to do.
Everyone gets what they want from this.
Trump can bluster about how this proves he’s not in Putin’s pocket and idiots in the USA will believe him.
Putin can say that Russia is acting in the interest of peace, and idiots in the West will believe him.
Everyone gets what they want. Apart from the poor bas**rds who were gassed last week.
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So now ex pats inCypress pooping themselves waiting for retaliation from Syria on RAF Akroutiri!
They will be pinning that badge from Mother Russia on your chest soon Comrade Sproty don't worry- ' pooping themselves inCypress ' indeed .
Where is Cypress btw and are you Carling Rover ?
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Bpool.
I’ve set out an alternative above. Which bit of that don’t you agree with?
it is of course possible bst, its like anything else just a opinion as none of us will ever no the truth anyway
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Our reaction to this gassing incident together with the ‘spy’ poisoning was, to my mind, too hasty. We were too quick to pin blame onto Syria and Assad for the chemical weapon outrage and onto Russia for the nerve agent attack with very little proper evidence other than an a general agreement they were the most likely culprits.
Naturally had it been debated and voted on in parliament before the strike that delay would mean any evidence would certainly have been lost and the munitions hidden.
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Our reaction to this gassing incident together with the ‘spy’ poisoning was, to my mind, too hasty. We were too quick to pin blame onto Syria and Assad for the chemical weapon outrage and onto Russia for the nerve agent attack with very little proper evidence other than an a general agreement they were the most likely culprits.
Naturally had it been debated and voted on in parliament before the strike that delay would mean any evidence would certainly have been lost and the munitions hidden.
Sorry Donny Dub but have you been actually listening or reading the events as they have unfolded ? I'm just wondering exactly which conspiracy theory you are following at present ?
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Let's look at this logically. If the 'targets' were indeed chemical weapons and storage facilities as claimed then the last thing anyone with even half a brain would want to do is blow them up and scatter those chemicals to the four winds.
Just think about it for a few seconds, just think about the problems that would cause for local, innocent, people, all those gasses and nerve agents released into the local atmosphere yesterday.
This morning, we see pictures of people at the supposed wrecked chemical weapon sites without gas masks and, apparently, suffering no ill effects. The same, one supposes, for the camera man taking the video. Compare that to Salisbury, where a small amount of chemical substance was smeared on one door handle and even now parts of the town are still no-go areas!
This appears to me to be a charade of immense proportion. And if it is, one has to ask the question - WHY?
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While we’re talking about Russia and war, this poll shows just how ill-informed we Brits are.
https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/984832675302330369
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While I agree BST, the plain answer is that without one of the three main players, the result could have been significantly different. UK, USA and Russia all played a unified part.
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If Germany did n't have to fight a war on the Westetn Front I doubt Russia would have drove the Germans back on the Eastern Front
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Yep, in laymans terms, Hitler bit off more than he could chew and spread his forces too thinly.
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Filo
Russia had already turned the tide on the Easten Front with the Battle of Kursk, 12 months before D-Day opened up the Western Front. By the time of D-Day, the Germans were in full-scale retreat in the East.
RR
I agree that it was a common effort. This sums it up neatly.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/947109803020685312/photo/1
There’s very few people I meet though, who know just how great the Soviet Union’s sacrifice was compared to ours.
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Former head of the British Army gets cut off when he doesn't give the 'right' answer....
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+former+head+of+british+armed+forces&qs=PF&cvid=b66c57a23f844f18adf3dfaf7e3bc9ef&refig=109dfb550c6f4cb4cf33592210cada30&cc=GB&setlang=en-US&PC=DCTS&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dyoutube%2bformer%2bhead%2bof%2bbritish%2barmed%2bforces%26form%3dEDGNTT%26qs%3dPF%26cvid%3db66c57a23f844f18adf3dfaf7e3bc9ef%26refig%3d109dfb550c6f4cb4cf33592210cada30%26cc%3dGB%26setlang%3den-US%26PC%3dDCTS&view=detail&mmscn=vwrc&mid=A24036BAF9E6DF076807A24036BAF9E6DF076807&FORM=WRVORC
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I’ll tell you what’s deeply concerning about the retired General’s comments. The fact that he can see no motive for Syria to use chemical weapons when in fact there are blatantly obvious reasons for them to do so.
The French Govt released a declassified intelligence briefing in this issue yesterday. (I’d post a link to it but the report has some very distressing images of children who had been affected by the gas attack and it’s not suitable to post that in here.)
The report noted that use of gas by the Syrian Govt forces in urban fighting had occurred several times before and always with the same motivations: to flush opposition fighters out of their buildings and hence make it safer for the Govt forces to mop them up, and to terrorise the civilian population into evacuating and/or not assisting the opposition. Those tactics meant that the Syrian Govt forces could finish off the opposition with minimal casualties to themselves.
That is so bleeding obvious that it is horrifying that a retired British general would not stop and consider it before spouting off on TV. The logic of why Assad’s forces would use gas is a micro version of the logic of why the USA dropped atom bombs on Japan. America was winning the war. They could have won it without using WMD. They used WMD a)to finish off Japan’s will to fight with minimal casualties to US forces and b) to demonstrate to future enemies that they had the capability and the will to use such weapons. Precisely the same motives can be attributed to Assad.
I hope and trust that our current generals have clearer tactical and strategic brains than this one.
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I’ll tell you what’s deeply concerning about the retired General’s comments. The fact that he can see no motive for Syria to use chemical weapons when in fact there are blatantly obvious reasons for them to do so.
The French Govt released a declassified intelligence briefing in this issue yesterday. (I’d post a link to it but the report has some very distressing images of children who had been affected by the gas attack and it’s not suitable to post that in here.)
The report noted that use of gas by the Syrian Govt forces in urban fighting had occurred several times before and always with the same motivations: to flush opposition fighters out of their buildings and hence make it safer for the Govt forces to mop them up, and to terrorise the civilian population into evacuating and/or not assisting the opposition. Those tactics meant that the Syrian Govt forces could finish off the opposition with minimal casualties to themselves.
That is so bleeding obvious that it is horrifying that a retired British general would not stop and consider it before spouting off on TV. The logic of why Assad’s forces would use gas is a micro version of the logic of why the USA dropped atom bombs on Japan. America was winning the war. They could have won it without using WMD. They used WMD a)to finish off Japan’s will to fight with minimal casualties to US forces and b) to demonstrate to future enemies that they had the capability and the will to use such weapons. Precisely the same motives can be attributed to Assad.
I hope and trust that our current generals have clearer tactical and strategic brains than this one.
I think you are wrong Billy, the Syrians weren't finishing any last group of die hard resistance fighters off, the place had virtually surrendered, how many injured fighters do you see on these videos? Two days after the fighting ended they let a 3 mile long column of coaches leave the place.
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If I'm reading what Corbyn is saying right, that every military action needs to be debated in parliament thats me finished with Labour while he is in charge. I'm no fan of the PM, but i do believe that the PM should have the right to decide on such actions without the restraints of having to go to the house, no matter who the PM is
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Sproty.
I know you won’t listen to anything that’s not on RT but just engage brain for a moment.
Last Saturday, when the attack happened, resistance WAS still ongoing in East Gouta. Over the days after the attack, resistance stopped.
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On Corbyn’s approach to war, THIS is the best analysis I’ve seen.
https://mobile.twitter.com/daverich1/status/985405910129537024
As someone who was involved with the Far Keft in the 80s, every word of that rings true. The key point is to know your ideological line and be faithful to it. It’s about the concept that there is a scientific analysis of history and politics to study and apply.
It’s b*llocks because it doesn’t take into account the myriad intricacies of the real world. But it seduces people who are looking for certainty and what appears to be a morally good stance.
Most of us grow out of it when we start engaging with the real world. Corbyn never has done.
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Billy I know this discussion has progressed quite a bit since my post and your reply, but you should know I don't believe in, or trust god either.
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I’ll tell you what’s deeply concerning about the retired General’s comments. The fact that he can see no motive for Syria to use chemical weapons when in fact there are blatantly obvious reasons for them to do so.
The French Govt released a declassified intelligence briefing in this issue yesterday. (I’d post a link to it but the report has some very distressing images of children who had been affected by the gas attack and it’s not suitable to post that in here.)
The report noted that use of gas by the Syrian Govt forces in urban fighting had occurred several times before and always with the same motivations: to flush opposition fighters out of their buildings and hence make it safer for the Govt forces to mop them up, and to terrorise the civilian population into evacuating and/or not assisting the opposition. Those tactics meant that the Syrian Govt forces could finish off the opposition with minimal casualties to themselves.
That is so bleeding obvious that it is horrifying that a retired British general would not stop and consider it before spouting off on TV. The logic of why Assad’s forces would use gas is a micro version of the logic of why the USA dropped atom bombs on Japan. America was winning the war. They could have won it without using WMD. They used WMD a)to finish off Japan’s will to fight with minimal casualties to US forces and b) to demonstrate to future enemies that they had the capability and the will to use such weapons. Precisely the same motives can be attributed to Assad.
I hope and trust that our current generals have clearer tactical and strategic brains than this one.
Billy, I suggest you take a look at this link from late last year....
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+robert+stuart+fabrication&view=detail&mid=389DDC34584A09EA6F68389DDC34584A09EA6F68&FORM=VIRE
Then look back at what footage the BBC and others showed in this latest 'supposed' chemical attack....
Then ask yourself why, if several supposed chemical weapons and storage facilities were subsequently destroyed by rocket attack, no one at all was harmed by the release of chemicals that would have happened at the time and immediately following?
So, was the retired General cut off because he was wrong? Or because his answer didn't fit the 'agenda'?
Something, somewhere isn't right!
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Thought the targets were chemical weapons infrastructure sites not storage sites, hence no need for protective equipment
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NNK
Right. That’s 20 minutes of my life I’m notgetting back. Nothing more than ad hominems, hints, supposition and unsubstantiated allegations.
Regarding collateral casualties from attacking the facilities, I have no idea how close they were to civilian zones. But in any case, sarin isn’t stored as sarin. It’s stored as two safe pre-cursor chemicals. So there wouldn’t be any release of lethal gas.
As for the retired general, if that was some sort of censorship attempt it’s not really been very successful has it, because the Twittersphere is on fire with conspiracy allegations. Me, I gave you my take on the sense of what he was saying. Regarding him getting cut off, it happens frequently when interviewees are rambling and an ad break is impending.
On a wider issue, you DO realise that Putin’s entire approach is based around getting smart people like you to see demons in everything and believe nothing. Then he’s free to commit his crimes and retain plausible deniability. It’s clearly working and it scares the living shite out of me.
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Thought the targets were chemical weapons infrastructure sites not storage sites, hence no need for protective equipment
Gloster, it depends on which reports you choose to believe. However, let's take the supposition that they were only chemical weapons infrastructures - would there not be chemical weapons in at least one of them? And if there were then, ipso facto, there would be chemicals in them? And those chemicals would be released into the local environment, the ones that people were seen climbing all over this morning with no ill effects?
But then, lets suppose that they were manufacturing bases for chemical weapons but with no chemicals there, unlikely - but let's go with that for a moment. If this is the case then the Asad regime still has chemical weapons stored somewhere, so what was gained by this exercise?
The whole issue is 'wrong' on so many levels.
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NNK
As I said. Sarin and most other nerve agents are stored as non-toxic pre-cursor chemicals.
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Billy I once read an article (whether true or not I don't know) a few years ago, but put the theory forward that Saddam's nerve agents and mustard gas had been moved to Syria, before the inspectors arrived in Iraq.
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NNK
Right. That’s 20 minutes of my life I’m notgetting back. Nothing more than ad hominems, hints, supposition and unsubstantiated allegations.
Regarding collateral casualties from attacking the facilities, I have no idea how close they were to civilian zones. But in any case, sarin isn’t stored as sarin. It’s stored as two safe pre-cursor chemicals. So there wouldn’t be any release of lethal gas.
As for the retired general, if that was some sort of censorship attempt it’s not really been very successful has it, because the Twittersphere is on fire with conspiracy allegations. Me, I gave you my take on the sense of what he was saying. Regarding him getting cut off, it happens frequently when interviewees are rambling and an ad break is impending.
On a wider issue, you DO realise that Putin’s entire approach is based around getting smart people like you to see demons in everything and believe nothing. Then he’s free to commit his crimes and retain plausible deniability. It’s clearly working and it scares the living shite out of me.
Billy, I'm sorry if you got nothing at all from those 20 minutes and that it did not in any way get you to question the whole issue.
You're quite correct in respect of Sarin, however there's currently no proof that that was what, if anything, was used here. People out there have been saying that they could smell chlorine for starters and I'm sure that if the Asad regime has chemical weapons they will have a multitude of options to choose from. It seems unlikely to me that we could bomb any chemical weapons location without release of at least something toxic into the atmosphere, your mileage may vary.
On the wider issue. Following the lies propagated by our media - Hilsborogh, Orgreave, Brexit etc etc - do you not think it at all reasoable to challenge what the media tells us? I don't look for deamons, I look for truth. I was taught to question anything that didn't meet the 'duck' principle; and what's happening in Syria right now doesn't walk like a duck, nor does it quack like a duck, to me at least.
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NNK
Seems to me you are making a lot of assumptions in one direction, with very little proof.
In situations like this, where the facts are blurred, my take is to look at the track records.
There have been numerous chemical weapons incidents in Syria, as confirmed by the OPCW. Whilst the OPCW does not have the mandate to apportion blame,there are numerous independent witnesses who have spoken out giving evidence of how it could only have been the Assad regime who carried out those attacks previously.
Meanwhile, you have the track records of Putin and Assad. Putin made his reputation by flattening Grozny. An utterly barbaric campaign against militants, which deliberately terrorised civilians into abandoning support for the Chechen rebels. Putin and Assad have applied that lesson in the way they have flattened large sections of Aleppo.
Both of them have previous form as war criminals who have shown flagrant disregard for the norms of combat, or for their responsibilities for civilians. You HAVE to look through that lens. Those are the people we are dealing with here.
But there’s an overwhelming fact that demolishes all the conspiracy theories about Douma. We COUKD find out who was responsible if the OPCW were given the remit if establishing blame as well as the fact of the existence of an attack. Britain, France and the USA proposed doing exactly that at the UN last week. Russia vetoed that idea.
That trumps everything. The rest is all bullshit. That one veto rendered it impossible to actually determine the truth. And then the bots from the Internet Research Agency and their useful idiots in the West fill the void with plausible conspiracies.
This is a vital issue. Step away from the conspiracy theories for a moment and look at the big picture. And ask yourself which side you are prepared to give the benefit of the doubt to.
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Good to see a PM with balls and who is not an appeaser
Is that why she never had children?
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While we’re talking about Russia and war, this poll shows just how ill-informed we Brits are.
https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/984832675302330369
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear .....there is no hope for u going backwards.
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NNK
Seems to me you are making a lot of assumptions in one direction, with very little proof.
I think we're both making assumptions, based on the lack of any hard evidence. My assumptions are based on what I see and what makes, (or doesn't make), sense to me. Quite a number of people have said to me that they too can't understand why, if we bombed chemical weapons establishments, no harmful chemicals were released into the atmosphere.
In situations like this, where the facts are blurred, my take is to look at the track records.
There have been numerous chemical weapons incidents in Syria, as confirmed by the OPCW. Whilst the OPCW does not have the mandate to apportion blame,there are numerous independent witnesses who have spoken out giving evidence of how it could only have been the Assad regime who carried out those attacks previously.
Indeed, so the question that has to be asked is why not take action before? Why wait until the civil war is practically over? Your previously stated view on this is just another assumption, and you may be right; I somehow can't see it personally.
Meanwhile, you have the track records of Putin and Assad. Putin made his reputation by flattening Grozny. An utterly barbaric campaign against militants, which deliberately terrorised civilians into abandoning support for the Chechen rebels. Putin and Assad have applied that lesson in the way they have flattened large sections of Aleppo.
Both of them have previous form as war criminals who have shown flagrant disregard for the norms of combat, or for their responsibilities for civilians. You HAVE to look through that lens. Those are the people we are dealing with here.
I don't disagree Billy, but the current attack on supposed chemical weapon establishments, (whatever you conceive them to be), doesn't address those issues. It doesn't stop Putin supporting Assad's regime and it doesn't stop Assad oppressing those who oppose him, his regime or democracy.
But there’s an overwhelming fact that demolishes all the conspiracy theories about Douma. We COUKD find out who was responsible if the OPCW were given the remit if establishing blame as well as the fact of the existence of an attack. Britain, France and the USA proposed doing exactly that at the UN last week. Russia vetoed that idea.
That trumps everything. The rest is all bullshit. That one veto rendered it impossible to actually determine the truth. And then the bots from the Internet Research Agency and their useful idiots in the West fill the void with plausible conspiracies.
Ah, the veto card. The history of who has used their veto in the UN is very interesting....
(https://i.imgur.com/sin2Ir8.png)
The lower, (blue), part of the USSR/Russia bar are USSR vetoes, the upper, (orange), are Russia itself.
Here's what those vetoes were used for
(https://i.imgur.com/NuQ4nSM.png)
Sadly, I don't have access to anything more recent than 2014, but those vetoes all appear to me to be based on vested interests/outside agreements, including our own. It is not surprising then that Russia vetoed that particular resolution. It doesn't make it right in my mind, but it does make it understandable.
This is a vital issue. Step away from the conspiracy theories for a moment and look at the big picture. And ask yourself which side you are prepared to give the benefit of the doubt to.
I haven't taken sides on this issue; I have simply looked at things, as presented by the media, and formed a judgement that raises questions in my mind as to why, now, we take this action and what was likely to be achieved by it. Also, why Syria when there are equal and worse atrocities being committed in other parts of the world that are less near resolution, (if you can call subjucation a resolution), that we could justifiably be involved with?
It will be interesting to watch May's speech to Parliament later today. Hopefully a few facts will be put forward that will shed more light on the whole matter. I certainly hope we're not looking at another Iraq type situation, where the public were clearly lied to for political ends.
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Could anybody tell me why we haven't bombed Israel for murdering 16 Palestinians on good Friday?
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The President of the United States has no interest in doing so.
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An interesting piece from the usually reliable Robert Fisk in the Independent;
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html
Very difficult to clear the air from the various vested interest pitches in the mainstream media.
I don't know what happened in Douma, but at least I know I don't know.
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An interesting piece from the usually reliable Robert Fisk in the Independent;
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html
Very difficult to clear the air from the various vested interest pitches in the mainstream media.
I don't know what happened in Douma, but at least I know I don't know.
Again like you I'm not sure what I think I know anymore either .
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It's getting more worrying by the minute....
https://youtu.be/lSXwG-901yU
Who to believe? Well....
in 1999 - They lied about Yugoslavia
in 2003 - They lied about Iraq
in 2011 - They lied about Libya
in 2018 - Are they now lying about Syria?
May says she and the French have evidence. Perhaps it's time to share it.
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NNK
Just a thought. The locals in Douma are now under the control of the Syrian and Russian armed forces. In that situation, would YOU go running up to a journalist and say "Them bas**rds gassed us"? Or would you be looking to show the people with the guns that you weren't one of the troublemakers?
By the way. In what way did "they" lie about Yugoslavia? If you want an example of a disgraceful act by the West, think back to Srebrenica, where we had peacekeepers who were instructed not to engage local militias. That led to the mass murder of 8,000 civilians and gang rapes of the women left behind. The action in 1999 was intended to put pressure on Serbia to prevent the same thing happening in Kosovo.
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We are talking about the alleged massacre in the Kossovan village of Racak which occurred in January 1999. The was the excuse used by NATO to Bomb Serbia and kill 2 ,500 civilians, plus destroy the infrastructure of the entire country.
The Serbian Police had been involved in a day long fire fight in and around the village of Racak, where an armed unit of the KOSOVO LIBERATION ARMY which had been conducting murders etc in the area,after the day long fight which was filmed by a French TV news team the Serbian Police withdrew,and the next day the KLA invited the press into the village claiming thar 45 civilians had been killed by the Serbs who had cut their throats and shot them.the various observers noted that none of the bodies had slashed open throats ,there was little or nothing in the way of cartridge cases in the ditch. The bodies were taken to Pristina and examined by three independent Pathologists, they found, clothing had been removed and replaced on most of the bodies, i.e. Uniforms replaced with civilian clothing, most of the bodies had been killed by rounds fired at range in all different angles, 37 of the bodies had Gunpowder residue on their hands.Indicating recent firing of guns.all slash injuries and near range bullet wounds had been caused several hours after death.
.all were males of military age.
Despite all of the doubt Madeline Albright used the massacre as an excuse for Clinton to push for NATO Bombing, NATO gave Serbian an ultimatum which they knew they would never agree to,a bit like the one Hitler tried to impose in 1941, ie unlimited military access to the entire country.
The Serbs refused and NATO murder 2,500 of them.
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Billy. Quite simply, we don't know. Certainly, that part of Douma is still in rebel hands, so it could be equally argued that the people saying there was no gas attack are at risk from the rebels controlling that area themselves.
I don't know, you don't know, the public at large and most of Parliament apparently don't know. Given the history of lies that have gone before, surely it is right to question this action and not accept it blindly? Which is why I ended my last post by saying "May says she and the French have evidence. Perhaps it's time to share it.". She said that in Parliament yesterday, she also said that she had to keep it secret. Perhaps keeping it secret prior to the rocket attack could be justified on the basis of net letting the Syrians or Russians know of our intentions before hand, (though I believe DT tweeted much), but what justification could she have now for not sharing it?
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Oh, and here's a lucky coincidence....
https://www.rt.com/uk/424392-may-husbands-capital-group/
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NNK
For goodness sake! Check the facts for yourself!
BAe Systems share price has NOT rocketed since last Saturday. Go and look it up!
On Friday 6 April, the day before the gassing in Douma, it was 601.8p. On Friday 13 April, the day before the missile attacks, it was 595.0p. Today it is 601.0p. Over the last 12 months it has oscillated between 535-670p. By no possible rational assessment can it be said to have been significantly affected by the raid last Saturday.
Don’t you SEE what RT’s approach is? They don’t give a shit about the truth. They want these concepts to be uncritically accepted and propagated. And you are doing that.
There’s no excuse for that. You can check the facts in seconds before you propagate lies.
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Sproty
I don’t know where you read about these things, but you are spouting Russian/Serbian propaganda there.
1) Racak. Go and read what the head of the UN/OECD Kosovo Verification Mission said about Racak. About how he and his team were prevented from going into Racak before the atrocity by Serb militias. About how he watched the massacre from an adjacent hillside. About how, when he finally got into Racak the place was littered with bodies that had been decapitated or shot in the head.
That’s the man who was appointed by the UN and OECD to make sure that another Srebrenica didn’t happen.
I know you won’t read around this because you’re not actually interested in doing so, are you? You prefer to swallow the justifications that came from the people who question whether Srebrenica happened, and who have never criticised the Serbian role in the Balkans catastrophe. And who pump out propaganda blaming the West for everything. And behind Serbia, once again we have the hand of Russia, pulling the strings and deceiving the gullible in the West.
And by the way, no credible analyst thinks there were 2,500 deaths as a result of the NATO bombing. Human Rights Watch which conducted an extremely detailed analysis reckons there were about 500. Or 1/16th of the number of people massacred at Srebrenica.
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I looked it up saw you were talking about William Walker,(Madeline Albrights Bitch) the man who bullied forensic Pathologist Helena Ranta and I immediately switched off
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The President of the United States has no interest in doing so.
And neither does our Israeli loving Conservative Party - incidentally I am NOT anti-Semitic but on the whole do have problems with the warmongers in the Israeli Foreign Ministry.
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The President of the United States has no interest in doing so.
And neither does our Israeli loving Conservative Party - incidentally I am NOT anti-Semitic but on the whole do have problems with the warmongers in the Israeli Foreign Ministry.
The other Bunch that needs sorting is the house of Saud, murdering women and children by the hundreds in Yemen.
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An interesting piece from the usually reliable Robert Fisk in the Independent;
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html
Very difficult to clear the air from the various vested interest pitches in the mainstream media.
I don't know what happened in Douma, but at least I know I don't know.
Albie, i don’t know either but then again why would we know?
If the French and UK governments do have information to support their actions, why should they share it with the public.
To do so might put the lives of say, SAS men working behind enemy lines or informants.
We don’t need to know everything that the people in high places know.
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Could anybody tell me why we haven't bombed Israel for murdering 16 Palestinians on good Friday?
Because we would get our arses kicked
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Could anybody tell me why we haven't bombed Israel for murdering 16 Palestinians on good Friday?
Because we would get our arses kicked
Good point!
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Sorry Hound, I have to disagree with you.
If the UK is going to take military action, without parliamentary approval, then the least we can do is demonstrate our case.
I agree that the security of individuals should be preserved, but if you allow politicians (of whatever party) to take the "I know Best" position, then they will abuse that trust for political advantage.
What you are suggesting gives them an open ticket to act without justification. It would not pass muster in a court of law, and it should not go unchallenged in any other context.
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Srebrenica definitely happened - of that there is no question . To deny that is on a par with Holocaust denial, or the behaviour of the Pol POT regime for the Khmer regime .
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Who’s mentioned srebrenica
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Who’s mentioned srebrenica
Sorry I thought you had judging by Billys response to you earlier in the thread re. Russo - Serbian propaganda . Reading back I notice you didn't actually deny the tragedy that was Srebrenica happened. For those that don't know about it - over 8000 Bosnian Muslims were massacred. In the same time scale and conflict as Racak of course.
Just one amongst many reasons why the enlargement of the EU has been beneficial for security on the continent for all of us especially in today's climate.
Incidentally I have seen the " supposed " staging of the chemical attack by the White Helmets - I'm still not convinced that this might just be a staging of a very dubious staging
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Who’s mentioned srebrenica
Sorry I thought you had judging by Billys response to you earlier in the thread re. Russo - Serbian propaganda . Reading back I notice you didn't actually deny the tragedy that was Srebrenica happened. For those that don't know about it - over 8000 Bosnian Muslims were massacred. In the same time scale and conflict as Racak of course.
Just one amongst many reasons why the enlargement of the EU has been beneficial for security on the continent for all of us especially in today's climate.
Incidentally I have seen the " supposed " staging of the chemical attack by the White Helmets - I'm still not convinced that this might just be a staging of a very dubious staging
Sorry yourself Hoola, srebrenica was 1996 500 miles away and in the Bosnia conflict, the perpetrators of the Massacre had nothing to do with Racak which was an attempt by the Serbian Police to sort out a terrorist group in the heart of Serbia.
You have had to fall back on something which happened half a decade earlier because you can't find any evidence to justify the Bombing of Serbia.
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Who’s mentioned srebrenica
Sorry I thought you had judging by Billys response to you earlier in the thread re. Russo - Serbian propaganda . Reading back I notice you didn't actually deny the tragedy that was Srebrenica happened. For those that don't know about it - over 8000 Bosnian Muslims were massacred. In the same time scale and conflict as Racak of course.
Just one amongst many reasons why the enlargement of the EU has been beneficial for security on the continent for all of us especially in today's climate.
Incidentally I have seen the " supposed " staging of the chemical attack by the White Helmets - I'm still not convinced that this might just be a staging of a very dubious staging
Sorry yourself Hoola, srebrenica was 1996 500 miles away and in the Bosnia conflict, the perpetrators of the Massacre had nothing to do with Racak which was an attempt by the Serbian Police to sort out a terrorist group in the heart of Serbia.
You have had to fall back on something which happened half a decade earlier because you can't find any evidence to justify the Bombing of Serbia.
250 miles apart / 3 years earlier , the Račak massacre was carried out by Serbian security services in Kosovo NOT Serbia , Srebrenica by the Scorpions a paramilitary force from wait for it ....Serbia on over 8000 Bosnian Muslims in Bosnia .
There's a theme running through them both and it's called the disgraceful behaviour of the State of Serbia .
Sproty never let facts get in the way will you , half a decade = 3 1/2 years and 500 miles = 250 miles the REAL distance apart . Now unless we are talking about 2 entirely different massacres, I would say you were at best guilty of not checking your facts or at worst trying to make me look like a fool when you didn't need to ; after all I had already apologised to you . Why you felt the need to do that is beyond me ?
In conclusion , I have you out on location ( Kosovo is not Serbia ) , time scale , distance between locations and of course the perpetrators of both massacres.
So I have you defending Murdering Serbs as well as a poisoning Syrian regime . Both nations have form but you would prefer to believe the former were " hard done by / bombed for no reason " and the latter was a " set up " potentially staged by the White Helmets
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So you are claiming that Radovan Karadic and general Raymond Mladic were behind both incidents?
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Oh and Kosovo is a Province of Serbia, there are approx 1200 Serbian orthodox Churches and monasteries in Kosovo most dating back to the 13 th century.
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Oh and Kosovo was a Province of Serbia, there are approx 1200 Serbian orthodox Churches and monasteries in Kosovo most dating back to the 13 th century.
Fixed
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So you are claiming that Radovan Karadic and general Raymond Mladic were behind both incidents?
I don't recall putting any names to either let alone both incidents - I merely mentioned Serbia .
Thanks Red for the " WAS " correction . Serbia also thought it alone represented or WAS Yugoslavia. The same Serbia that has been Russian backed for centuries now the Russians have moved in with their buddies in Syria.
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NNK
For goodness sake! Check the facts for yourself!
BAe Systems share price has NOT rocketed since last Saturday. Go and look it up!
On Friday 6 April, the day before the gassing in Douma, it was 601.8p. On Friday 13 April, the day before the missile attacks, it was 595.0p. Today it is 601.0p. Over the last 12 months it has oscillated between 535-670p. By no possible rational assessment can it be said to have been significantly affected by the raid last Saturday.
Don’t you SEE what RT’s approach is? They don’t give a shit about the truth. They want these concepts to be uncritically accepted and propagated. And you are doing that.
There’s no excuse for that. You can check the facts in seconds before you propagate lies.
I have no idea what RT say about them but check out the share price of Avon Rubber PLC. One of their subsidiaries is Avon Protection Systems (who manufacture gas masks and protection equipment for the military) and whose CEO has been quite prominent in the media recently. Purely by chance I'm sure.
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NNK
For goodness sake! Check the facts for yourself!
BAe Systems share price has NOT rocketed since last Saturday. Go and look it up!
On Friday 6 April, the day before the gassing in Douma, it was 601.8p. On Friday 13 April, the day before the missile attacks, it was 595.0p. Today it is 601.0p. Over the last 12 months it has oscillated between 535-670p. By no possible rational assessment can it be said to have been significantly affected by the raid last Saturday.
Don’t you SEE what RT’s approach is? They don’t give a shit about the truth. They want these concepts to be uncritically accepted and propagated. And you are doing that.
There’s no excuse for that. You can check the facts in seconds before you propagate lies.
Billy, that link was sent to me in good faith, didn't have time to check it, it was late.
It seems that it has subsequently been edited by RT, though the word 'rocketed' is still used.
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Meanwhile, the plot thickens....
Russia plans to bring healthy people from Syria to the Hague this week who were allegedly "dying" in a video taken shortly after a suspected chemical attack.
In an exclusive interview with ITV News, the Russian Ambassador to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) said Russia aims to "unmask" what it says are "unforgivable lies" over the alleged incident.
He said Russia will bring 17 Syrians from Douma - the site of the alleged attack - seven of whom are "perfectly identifiable as dying people" in a video by the White Helmets rescue worker group.
The video purported to show people suffering from a chemical weapons attack, allegedly launched by the Syrian regime - the Russians claim it is a fake video.
Ambassador Alexander Shulgin said each of the seven will be able to point to themselves in the video, at a "special briefing" at the OPCW headquarters.
The attack in Douma, which allegedly killed as many as 75 men, women and children, triggered retaliatory strikes by the US, UK and France against some of the Syrian regime's chemical facilities.
http://www.itv.com/news/2018-04-24/russia-has-witnesses-to-unmask-unforgivable-lies-over-alleged-chemical-attack-in-syria/
....particularly if those people can indeed be identified and show no ill effects.
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Meanwhile, the plot thickens....
Russia plans to bring healthy people from Syria to the Hague this week who were allegedly "dying" in a video taken shortly after a suspected chemical attack.
In an exclusive interview with ITV News, the Russian Ambassador to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) said Russia aims to "unmask" what it says are "unforgivable lies" over the alleged incident.
He said Russia will bring 17 Syrians from Douma - the site of the alleged attack - seven of whom are "perfectly identifiable as dying people" in a video by the White Helmets rescue worker group.
The video purported to show people suffering from a chemical weapons attack, allegedly launched by the Syrian regime - the Russians claim it is a fake video.
Ambassador Alexander Shulgin said each of the seven will be able to point to themselves in the video, at a "special briefing" at the OPCW headquarters.
The attack in Douma, which allegedly killed as many as 75 men, women and children, triggered retaliatory strikes by the US, UK and France against some of the Syrian regime's chemical facilities.
http://www.itv.com/news/2018-04-24/russia-has-witnesses-to-unmask-unforgivable-lies-over-alleged-chemical-attack-in-syria/
....particularly if those people can indeed be identified and show no ill effects.
Exactly I wonder too if they intend to dig up the remains of the many who died from previous well - documented attacks as well as bring in the thousands reported missing presumably tortured to death by the regime ?
There's little doubt in my mind that the Assad regime has used any means at its disposal to bring their people to heel. Might this have been a set- up ? Of course the Syrian people may have used any means or foul to bring their plight to the attention of the world given their situation but somehow I doubt it .
-
Meanwhile, the plot thickens....
Russia plans to bring healthy people from Syria to the Hague this week who were allegedly "dying" in a video taken shortly after a suspected chemical attack.
In an exclusive interview with ITV News, the Russian Ambassador to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) said Russia aims to "unmask" what it says are "unforgivable lies" over the alleged incident.
He said Russia will bring 17 Syrians from Douma - the site of the alleged attack - seven of whom are "perfectly identifiable as dying people" in a video by the White Helmets rescue worker group.
The video purported to show people suffering from a chemical weapons attack, allegedly launched by the Syrian regime - the Russians claim it is a fake video.
Ambassador Alexander Shulgin said each of the seven will be able to point to themselves in the video, at a "special briefing" at the OPCW headquarters.
The attack in Douma, which allegedly killed as many as 75 men, women and children, triggered retaliatory strikes by the US, UK and France against some of the Syrian regime's chemical facilities.
http://www.itv.com/news/2018-04-24/russia-has-witnesses-to-unmask-unforgivable-lies-over-alleged-chemical-attack-in-syria/
....particularly if those people can indeed be identified and show no ill effects.
Exactly I wonder too if they intend to dig up the remains of the many who died from previous well - documented attacks as well as bring in the thousands reported missing presumably tortured to death by the regime ?
There's little doubt in my mind that the Assad regime has used any means at its disposal to bring their people to heel. Might this have been a set- up ? Of course the Syrian people may have used any means or foul to bring their plight to the attention of the world given their situation but somehow I doubt it .
Do you mean those Syrian rebels who would slit your throat and then slowly saw it off whilst they raped your daughter in front of you are those the ones you are sticking up for?
-
Meanwhile, the plot thickens....
Russia plans to bring healthy people from Syria to the Hague this week who were allegedly "dying" in a video taken shortly after a suspected chemical attack.
In an exclusive interview with ITV News, the Russian Ambassador to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) said Russia aims to "unmask" what it says are "unforgivable lies" over the alleged incident.
He said Russia will bring 17 Syrians from Douma - the site of the alleged attack - seven of whom are "perfectly identifiable as dying people" in a video by the White Helmets rescue worker group.
The video purported to show people suffering from a chemical weapons attack, allegedly launched by the Syrian regime - the Russians claim it is a fake video.
Ambassador Alexander Shulgin said each of the seven will be able to point to themselves in the video, at a "special briefing" at the OPCW headquarters.
The attack in Douma, which allegedly killed as many as 75 men, women and children, triggered retaliatory strikes by the US, UK and France against some of the Syrian regime's chemical facilities.
http://www.itv.com/news/2018-04-24/russia-has-witnesses-to-unmask-unforgivable-lies-over-alleged-chemical-attack-in-syria/
....particularly if those people can indeed be identified and show no ill effects.
Exactly I wonder too if they intend to dig up the remains of the many who died from previous well - documented attacks as well as bring in the thousands reported missing presumably tortured to death by the regime ?
There's little doubt in my mind that the Assad regime has used any means at its disposal to bring their people to heel. Might this have been a set- up ? Of course the Syrian people may have used any means or foul to bring their plight to the attention of the world given their situation but somehow I doubt it .
Do you mean those Syrian rebels who would slit your throat and then slowly saw it off whilst they raped your daughter in front of you are those the ones you are sticking up for?
Yep the same one's and those who crucify of course. I'm presuming from that post Sproty you think that some have exceptions and can commit horrific crimes as long as you support them.
War crimes against civilians are NEVER excusable whosoever commits them Regime or contra - regime are they . Who decides you , The Hague or an RT commentator ?
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The war in Syria would have been over years ago if we had not armed the likes of Isis etc. Assad isn't perfect but he is the best option .
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Sproty
Go on then. Where is the evidence that the West has directly armed ISIS?
And of course, by your logic WWII would have been over a lot sooner without Lend-Lease or the Arctic Convoys.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/14/nearly-third-weapons-used-isil-battlefield-manufactured-eu-report/
Also Google Operation Timber Sycamore
http://www.newsweek.com/how-isis-got-weapons-us-used-them-take-iraq-syria-748468
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https://www.wired.com/story/terror-industrial-complex-isis-munitions-supply-chain/
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/14/nearly-third-weapons-used-isil-battlefield-manufactured-eu-report/
Also Google Operation Timber Sycamore
http://www.newsweek.com/how-isis-got-weapons-us-used-them-take-iraq-syria-748468
Ok I've read both your stories in neither of them have I found any assertion that the US directly armed ISIS . Yes weapons intended for the anti- Assad forces reached them, yes EU and US mmanufactured arms were smuggled over the border and yes early caches were captured from Iraqi forces.
Is it your contention that the West particularly the US deliberately supplied Isis with the majority of their arms ?
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/14/nearly-third-weapons-used-isil-battlefield-manufactured-eu-report/
Also Google Operation Timber Sycamore
http://www.newsweek.com/how-isis-got-weapons-us-used-them-take-iraq-syria-748468
That supply doesn't look very direct to me.
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Billy was the poster who wanted to know if They had directly armed Isis,not me, when do you ever expect to see that proven, the supply of arms has been a cloak and dagger business for thousands of years, even Charles Martel brought in the death penalty for any merchant who sold a Byrnie to the Avjars! But the west has certainly been supplying Arms by proxy to Isis and co, prove to me that is not the case.
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Billy was the poster who wanted to know if They had directly armed Isis,not me, when do you ever expect to see that proven, the supply of arms has been a cloak and dagger business for thousands of years, even Charles Martel brought in the death penalty for any merchant who sold a Byrnie to the Avjars! But the west has certainly been supplying Arms by proxy to Isis and co, prove to me that is not the case.
Why the hell should anybody have to prove your contention is false? It's your contention, no-one else's.
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What contention?
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Sproty
Go on then. Where is the evidence that the West has directly armed ISIS?
And of course, by your logic WWII would have been over a lot sooner without Lend-Lease or the Arctic Convoys.
World war 2 would have gone better for us in late 1941 early 1942, as we would have sent 600 Matilda and Valentine tanks to Malasia along with 150 Hawker Hurricanes and 150 bombers
But instead we sent the stuff to Stalin, and subsequently lost 2 Capital Ships ,Malaysia,Singapore and Burma.
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What contention?
The war in Syria would have been over years ago if we had not armed the likes of Isis etc
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What contention?
No that's is a fact, it's well in the public domain just do some googling you'll get hundreds of hits.
The war in Syria would have been over years ago if we had not armed the likes of Isis etc
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What contention?
No that's is a fact, it's well in the public domain just do some googling you'll get hundreds of hits.
The war in Syria would have been over years ago if we had not armed the likes of Isis etc
Who do you mean by the 'we' though? Western governments or just western arms merchants?
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Glynn study some you tube films of the fighting there is a certain percentage of kit being used which can only have come from a Western Government source, because the kit is only exclusively produced for them.
AK 47 and run of the mill stuff is easy to buy out there but the Anti tank and anti Air missiles aren't.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-WSdGasWpg
This is interesting and they are £40 k a chuck!
https://www.mintpressnews.com/how-did-syrian-rebels-end-up-with-anti-aircraft-missiles-known-as-manpads/237246/
Once they start using stuff that is only available from US military supplies, it's a no brainier.
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" it's a no brainier. " - you buy all this stuff lock, stock and asking barrels don't you ?
So full of Russian propaganda it's untrue , are you sure you aren't a troll ? One- sided crap constantly !
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" it's a no brainier. " - you buy all this stuff lock, stock and asking barrels don't you ?
So full of Russian propaganda it's untrue , are you sure you aren't a troll ? One- sided crap constantly !
I have been on you tube and watched a film which is one of dozens made by Syrian Rebels assembling a Tow Missile aiming and firing it at Syrian Army tanks which blow up ,crew members in the vicinity run for their lives.
That's not staged .
You can only get that kit from Regimes that are super friendly to the US
Israel.Saudi Arabia ,West Germany.those nations have signed a guarantee with the US that they will not supply Kit to any other party without the prior permission of the US.
Instead of coming on here and trying to belittle me I suggest you use that 2lb of useless fat that is resting between your ears to do some simple google searches .
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Sproty
Syrian Rebels or ISIS?
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Nobody's ever captured weapons. Ever.
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Sproty
Syrian Rebels or ISIS?
Syrian Rebels who were never vetted Billy.
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Glynn the only possible source of Western equipment which could have been captured would have been from the Iraqi Army 2 years ago. Now I did see a lot of Humvees in Isis Hans but I doubt that the Iraqi Army had Tow missiles or Man pads.
Technical stuff like Tows and Man pads require trained operators, who would train them...CIA, also captured stuff has a brief shelf life, if the Iraqi Army lost any Tows you would be talking about a max of 2 Dozen.
Germany captured hundreds of thousands of items of kit in 1940/1941 but it only had a short lifespan due to lack of parts and maintenance,they particularly had a thing for the Morris military Truck.
From the films I have seen on you tube the Rebels have shot off hundreds of Tows (£40,000 a pop) so doubt they are captured stock
Hmmm 2,300 Humvees in Mosul alone!
https://www.globalresearch.ca/where-does-isis-get-all-those-tanks-weapons-and-shiny-new-toyota-trucks/5490040
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A good example of what happens to equipment which falls into the hands of un trained muppets is Iran.
At the time of the revolution Iran had one of the most modern and heavily equipped Airforces in the world. Including 56 F14 Tomcat fighters,only the Us had them,150 F4 Phantoms,150 f5e Fighters, and the second large military helicopter fleet in the West.
All of the Pilots and technical staff were regarded as disloyal followers of the Shah and were either killed, put in prisons or led. A couple of years later the entire fleet was grounded , no parts and no body to fly maintain them.Sadam Hussein saw his chance and attacked. Iran was saved when some cleric went into a Prison and gave the few remaining Pilots and ground crew an amnesty. The Israelis clandestinely supplied spare tyres and other parts to get 30 or so Phantoms into the Air and the ravages of the Iraqi Air Force were curbed.
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" it's a no brainier. " - you buy all this stuff lock, stock and asking barrels don't you ?
So full of Russian propaganda it's untrue , are you sure you aren't a troll ? One- sided crap constantly !
I have been on you tube and watched a film which is one of dozens made by Syrian Rebels assembling a Tow Missile aiming and firing it at Syrian Army tanks which blow up ,crew members in the vicinity run for their lives.
That's not staged .
You can only get that kit from Regimes that are super friendly to the US
Israel.Saudi Arabia ,West Germany.those nations have signed a guarantee with the US that they will not supply Kit to any other party without the prior permission of the US.
Instead of coming on here and trying to belittle me I suggest you use that 2lb of useless fat that is resting between your ears to do some simple google searches .
I don't need to belittle you - you do a sterling job on your own you obnoxious tw*t.
Incidentally you weren't belittled but instead of watching you- tube vids all day ; you might like to think about how easily you lack balance and for that matter how easily you are to convince .
As for that " pound of useless fat " comment - you basically just confirmed what most of us had already noticed about you and I pointed out to you in my first paragraph .
What is wrong with you " know it all " ?
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22906965
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" it's a no brainier. " - you buy all this stuff lock, stock and asking barrels don't you ?
So full of Russian propaganda it's untrue , are you sure you aren't a troll ? One- sided crap constantly !
I have been on you tube and watched a film which is one of dozens made by Syrian Rebels assembling a Tow Missile aiming and firing it at Syrian Army tanks which blow up ,crew members in the vicinity run for their lives.
That's not staged .
You can only get that kit from Regimes that are super friendly to the US
Israel.Saudi Arabia ,West Germany.those nations have signed a guarantee with the US that they will not supply Kit to any other party without the prior permission of the US.
Instead of coming on here and trying to belittle me I suggest you use that 2lb of useless fat that is resting between your ears to do some simple google searches .
I don't need to belittle you - you do a sterling job on your own you obnoxious tw*t.
Incidentally you weren't belittled but instead of watching you- tube vids all day ; you might like to think about how easily you lack balance and for that matter how easily you are to convince .
As for that " pound of useless fat " comment - you basically just confirmed what most of us had already noticed about you and I pointed out to you in my first paragraph .
What is wrong with you " know it all " ?
He said 2lb 😀😀😀😀😀
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22906965
Typical BBC no mention of the TOW missile source .
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" it's a no brainier. " - you buy all this stuff lock, stock and asking barrels don't you ?
So full of Russian propaganda it's untrue , are you sure you aren't a troll ? One- sided crap constantly !
I have been on you tube and watched a film which is one of dozens made by Syrian Rebels assembling a Tow Missile aiming and firing it at Syrian Army tanks which blow up ,crew members in the vicinity run for their lives.
That's not staged .
You can only get that kit from Regimes that are super friendly to the US
Israel.Saudi Arabia ,West Germany.those nations have signed a guarantee with the US that they will not supply Kit to any other party without the prior permission of the US.
Instead of coming on here and trying to belittle me I suggest you use that 2lb of useless fat that is resting between your ears to do some simple google searches .
I don't need to belittle you - you do a sterling job on your own you obnoxious tw*t.
Incidentally you weren't belittled but instead of watching you- tube vids all day ; you might like to think about how easily you lack balance and for that matter how easily you are to convince .
As for that " pound of useless fat " comment - you basically just confirmed what most of us had already noticed about you and I pointed out to you in my first paragraph .
What is wrong with you " know it all " ?
I did say 2 pounds! Oh and by the way You are the obnoxious one in this 'Discusion' you are taking on someone who has a considerably wider knowledge base than your self and all you can do is resort to childish insults.
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It makes me laugh when the media speak about 'moderate' rebels, who the hell are they supposed to be? Assad may not be perfect but he is the best choice fore stability in the country. It's no good trying to impose Western style so called 'democracy' on these people, they are centuries away from that.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22906965
Typical BBC no mention of the TOW missile source .
Terribly sorry for not linking to somewhere listing every individual piece of equipment and it's source, especially seeing as that isn't the intent of the article. No doubt you can? Apropos what the article does say, are you still certain that only the west has supplied arms to ISIS?
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22906965
Typical BBC no mention of the TOW missile source .
Terribly sorry for not linking to somewhere listing every individual piece of equipment and it's source, especially seeing as that isn't the intent of the article. No doubt you can? Apropos what the article does say, are you still certain that only the west has supplied arms to ISIS?
When did I say that Glynn?
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" it's a no brainier. " - you buy all this stuff lock, stock and asking barrels don't you ?
So full of Russian propaganda it's untrue , are you sure you aren't a troll ? One- sided crap constantly !
I have been on you tube and watched a film which is one of dozens made by Syrian Rebels assembling a Tow Missile aiming and firing it at Syrian Army tanks which blow up ,crew members in the vicinity run for their lives.
That's not staged .
You can only get that kit from Regimes that are super friendly to the US
Israel.Saudi Arabia ,West Germany.those nations have signed a guarantee with the US that they will not supply Kit to any other party without the prior permission of the US.
Instead of coming on here and trying to belittle me I suggest you use that 2lb of useless fat that is resting between your ears to do some simple google searches .
I don't need to belittle you - you do a sterling job on your own you obnoxious tw*t.
Incidentally you weren't belittled but instead of watching you- tube vids all day ; you might like to think about how easily you lack balance and for that matter how easily you are to convince .
As for that " pound of useless fat " comment - you basically just confirmed what most of us had already noticed about you and I pointed out to you in my first paragraph .
What is wrong with you " know it all " ?
I did say 2 pounds! Oh and by the way You are the obnoxious one in this 'Discusion' you are taking on someone who has a considerably wider knowledge base than your self and all you can do is resort to childish insults.
There you go again ' bigging ' yourself up - you have no idea of the knowledge and experiences that me or indeed others possess as you are far too busy using this as a forum for your self-agrandissement . Rather than treating it as somewhere you can come and discuss all manner of matters in a decent and reasonable way - something you appear to have completely forgotten when attempting your piss poor put- down of my intelligence ; why don't you try and engage for once .
Incidentally you don't think that that this is a childish insult :- " Instead of coming on here and trying to belittle me I suggest you use that 2lb of useless fat that is resting between your ears " .
Who the F**k do you think you are ?
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Hey Hoola, take a chill pill and let's just get back to discussing the theme of the thread,life is too short to be falling out!