Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: VSC on May 11, 2018, 11:01:54 am
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Once again we have to say thank you to the club for the level of detail and discussion we were allowed.
Analysis of Doncaster Rovers Limited (Previously Patienceform Limited) Financial Statements for the year ended 30 June 2017.
The financial statements up to 30th June 2017 for Doncaster Rovers Ltd (trading as Doncaster Rovers Football Club) have been completed and were passed to the Viking Supporters Co-operative for analysis. The results of which are set out below.
Company Structure.
To standardise matters, dispense with any confusion and to fall in line with the corporate image of Club Doncaster, the company name was changed from Patienceform Limited to Doncaster Rovers Limited.
Post Balance Sheet but prior to the date of the Report of the Directors, the club sadly had to come to terms with the passing of one of the Directors, Mr Richard Watson, who will be greatly missed and very fondly remembered. We have so much to thank him for.
Changes to the structure of the shareholding had taken place in the previous year to 30th June 2016 when Club Doncaster became a large shareholder of this club. There were no further changes in the year to 30th June 2017.
Loans and “Debt to Equity conversion”.
During the previous year to 30th June 2016, it had been reported that there was a conversion of debt to the owners to equity provided by Club Doncaster. This had freed up the company from a large amount of debt to the owners. Loans within the club had been reduced at that time from £12.4M to £614K. During the ensuing year ended 30th June 2017, further cash was injected into the club in line with expectations and also in line with previous years. The cash injection came from Club Doncaster and at 30th June 2017, the outstanding loans by Doncaster Rovers Limited rose from the £614K of the previous year to £2.6M.
Accounting Loss.
In the financial year ended 30th June 2016, the financial loss suffered was £2.08M. However, given that there had been a small residue of owners’ loans written off in that year (£155K), the loss was more realistically £2.24M. This can be compared to the loss in the year ended 30th June 2017 of £2.14M.
Thus the club, despite relegation to League 2, had managed expectations extremely well, because of the Directors and staff controlling the spending budgets.
This shows progress towards the aim of making the club sustainable (albeit in small strides).
Decrease in Income.
At the end of the 2015/16 season, it was disappointing to find the club had finished in poor position in League 1 and the 2016/17 season would be fought out in League 2. As a result, Income in the year ended 30th June 2017 fell against the figures achieved in the prior year (lower matchday revenue and broadcasting revenue etc.). It can be noted overall income in the year ended 30th June 2017 was £4.93M against the previous year of £5.35M.
Wages.
Previously, the total wage bill had increased by £650K, but this year to 30th June 2017 saw a decrease of £331K. Although administrative staff and stadium staff had increased by 26, the football squad and support staff had decreased by 19. Given the higher level of wages of the football squad and support staff, it is to be expected that this would fund the increase in administrative and stadium staff and allowed for the further savings.
Overall.
Once again, the owners have shown their immense financial support of the club by not only carefully controlling the monetary out-goings, but also by the injection of further cash of around £2M via Club Doncaster during the year. As the loss suffered by the club was £2.14M, then it can be seen that in the main this is shored up by the cash injection.
Many clubs in a year of relegation suffer extreme hardship and increased losses.
This club, during the year, has not let itself financially spiral out of control
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Why don't the administration staff come under Club Doncaster?
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Obviously getting back into the Championship with a competitive side would help the balance sheet .
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Just goes to show how generous our owners are. Losing £2 million per year over the last 10 years means that the three major shareholders have donated £20 million for OUR enjoyment
We should be very grateful.
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Forgot to mention that their conversion of debt to equity has meant we are in a very healthy position compared to other clubs.
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Any reason the wage bill figure isn’t in the post?
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Just goes to show how generous our owners are. Losing £2 million per year over the last 10 years means that the three major shareholders have donated £20 million for OUR enjoyment
We should be very grateful.
Aye, but according to some because they aren't in the papers and on the radio every week they are the worst thing to happen to the club.
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Lots of positives in there considering our relegation. We should indeed be grateful to our owners, not just for injecting cash via Club Doncaster and writing off loans, but for continuing their aim to make the club self sustainable.
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We are all ambitious and suppose it comes at a price. There has to a method to achieving success without pumping in oligarchs amounts of cash and I think our board are on top of their game .
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Do we really need the constant snide remarks about posters who might not happen to agree with with others opinions.
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Touchy!
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Do we really need the constant snide remarks about posters who might not happen to agree with with others opinions.
Although calling other people's opinions snide pretty much negates your point.
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So German Rovers comment isn't snide /sarcastic or whatever way you want to put it then?
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So German Rovers comment isn't snide /sarcastic or whatever way you want to put it then?
Depends entirely on your opinion, which you're entitled to, as is he.
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This is a genuine question - our club is now owned by Club Doncaster.
It would be interesting to know who are the Directors of Club Doncaster and who controls the controller, as it where.
I presume it is the Watson / Bramall families exclusively?
Also, I presume Club Doncaster has other priorities, so we are owned by an entity for which Rovers is not the exclusive priority.
To an extent this just formalises life ie when JR etc controlled the club they did not spend every penny on Rovers due to other priorities, but formalising this in a corporate entity does make this more stark, perhaps.
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Any reason the wage bill figure isn’t in the post?
The accounts above which are in the public domain do not show wages or staff the information that VSC have seen about wages must be the version that are not in the public domain.
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It's a bit like The Daily Mail.... Read it all but trust little
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Any reason the wage bill figure isn’t in the post?
The accounts above which are in the public domain do not show wages or staff the information that VSC have seen about wages must be the version that are not in the public domain.
Ah ok. There’s obviously a reason the exact figures were not disclosed.
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Fair saving though on wages
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It's a bit like The Daily Mail.... Read it all but trust little
Well you can't lie in your accounts and the VSC has f**k all to gain by lying in their commentary of said accounts so not sure what this is meant to mean.
Any reason the wage bill figure isn’t in the post?
The accounts above which are in the public domain do not show wages or staff the information that VSC have seen about wages must be the version that are not in the public domain.
Ah ok. There’s obviously a reason the exact figures were not disclosed.
Do football clubs not have the right to publish abbreviated accounts so they can keep stuff like that under wraps? doesn't really make sense to tell the world how much you're paying your playing staff imo. And not for the reasons some people will claim...
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It's a bit like The Daily Mail.... Read it all but trust little
Well you can't lie in your accounts and the VSC has f**k all to gain by lying in their commentary of said accounts so not sure what this is meant to mean.
Any reason the wage bill figure isn’t in the post?
The accounts above which are in the public domain do not show wages or staff the information that VSC have seen about wages must be the version that are not in the public domain.
Ah ok. There’s obviously a reason the exact figures were not disclosed.
Do football clubs not have the right to publish abbreviated accounts so they can keep stuff like that under wraps? doesn't really make sense to tell the world how much you're paying your playing staff imo. And not for the reasons some people will claim...
The club as I understand it in the case of Doncaster Rovers Ltd accounts are not obligated to show wages as they are accounts for a small business and are no longer Full accounts.
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The accounts are available on Companies House (have been since March). They only show the balance sheet, and although you can work out the profit/loss by the movement in retained earnings there’s no disclosure of turnover or wages (haven’t double checked but that’s my understanding). So presumably a lot of the commentary in the OP has come from discussions with the club rather than analysis of the accounts.
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Are Financial Statements different to public domain accounts?
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Clearly the release of the current information in this format is ment to show the backing of the board and that it’s willingness to continue picking up the slack . We ask quiet a lot of questions on here , and it’s obvious that some of it filters back . Having players wages inthe public domain would only be unsettling to the management and seen to be a unhelpful where Player moral has to be maintained.
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Are Financial Statements different to public domain accounts?
No it's just there are rules on what you have to do. If you can minimise the returns then you do so.
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The story in Bradford is that the German board want to go down the route of having a team of young players that they have developed able to be sold for a profit.
Obviously on lower wages than senior pros and the ceiling on wages is rumoured to be £1,500 for new signings. Good luck with that strategy.
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In the old days the club's accounts showed far more detail, including the the overall playing side wage bill, income from attendances etc.
Is there any reason the club currently does not want to disclose more to its supporters?
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In the old days the club's accounts showed far more detail, including the the overall playing side wage bill, income from attendances etc.
Is there any reason the club currently does not want to disclose more to its supporters?
Yes the reasons mentioned numerous times....
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Almost as if he's trying to be a shit stirrer, as per...
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Thanls for the summary of latest accounts VSC. Another 2 million. The club has never had such a clean balance sheet nor such a clear business plan. Could you add info concerning the composition of the shareholdings in Club Doncaster please.?
Envoyé de mon EVA-L09 en utilisant Tapatalk
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In the old days the club's accounts showed far more detail, including the the overall playing side wage bill, income from attendances etc.
Is there any reason the club currently does not want to disclose more to its supporters?
Crazy. Next they'll not be disclosing things about Central American-based hedge funds.
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It's a perfectly valid question and it really is amazing that when all you are requesting is greater transparency that people seem to want to close ranks.
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It's a perfectly valid question and it really is amazing that when all you are requesting is greater transparency that people seem to want to close ranks.
Why were you not requesting greater transparency when a dodgy hedge fund was involved?
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It's a perfectly valid question
That had already been answered.
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I think I’d like to understand the basis of the question, Lifelong Supporter. Why do you really want to know and what would be the benefit of finding out? Are you actually trying to imply that they’re covering up the details of the wage bill as the club is no longer remunerating its playing staff adequately? I think you know that’s not the case so you're just objectionably shit stirring for the sake of it, yet again.
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Never really understood why the average fan has any interest in the accounts, years gone by we never saw or heard about them. Did it change us from being fans, not one iota. So why now?
COYR
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And most fans haven't got a f**king clue how to read or interpret accounts anyway.
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Just another stick to beat the board with! Trying anywhichway to prove they are spendthrift owners. Quite ironic really as mentioned above about the transparency of the two takeovers, stringing people along he dearly wanted to believe they were the answer to our prayers. Even Louis Tomlinson said he'd been misled.
It's about time some folk found something else to do and left the powers that be to get on with managing the finances the best they can. Pumping in extra millions in here and there isn't going to happen. Until some genuine new money comes along any progress we make will be down to good honest business and management principles.
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Like I said the hysteria in response is quite astonishing.
Just to answer one or two points as no-one seems to be able to answer mine.
Filo: I think I did. But if I didn't it shouldn't preclude me from making the same request now.
Red J: If the question has already been answered I apologise. Must have missed it. Just post me a link.
Jonathan: I'm not implying anything, or stirring anything. In fact you can't stir anything if there is nothing there to stir. I made a point that we used to get far more detail and wondered why we didn't now, that's all.
glosterred: Actually, years gone by the accounts were always available at the annual shareholders meeting and reported in the newspaper so we did see and hear about them. However good or bad they were it wouldn't change me from being a fan either.
RedJ: I've heard it said that most fans don't have a clue about football either but it doesn't stop them watching or commenting about it.
DonnyBazROver: Far from looking for sticks to beat the board with I've said many times before I think we have some good directors and we should be grateful for their benevolence. But that should never mean they should not be open to question and even criticism at times. Finally, my understanding of the word spendthrift is someone who spends money extravagantly, irresponsibly or recklessly and I would never accuse the owners of that, let alone try to prove it!
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A couple of things to note, there's loads of examples of clubs managing to tip the balance in this League and get promoted on miles smaller budgets and even more examples of those with massive budgets failing miserably, I don't think it's that important as a benchmark of the Owners intentions.
Despite reading this post, I'm no wiser as to why they wouldn't include that information. It may not be relevant to us as supporters and may create moaning but i don't think anyone would look at £2million put in for the last financial year and truly expect to be squeezing somebody else's money for free.
It was the start of last season that Gavin Baldwin stated we had a competitive budget which was vague at best as it didn't state competitive against what ambition. If it was promotion you would expect it would be behind Blackburn and Wigan (obviously) But similar to the pack that follows behind should we wish to compete for the Championship. We've lost a number of big earners this year with Williams and Evina on a decent sum and Baudry potentially not far behind. The players that we bring in this year should give us a good indication of whether we're looking at a wage reduction or not.
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Never really understood why the average fan has any interest in the accounts, years gone by we never saw or heard about them. Did it change us from being fans, not one iota. So why now?
COYR
it does not change our lives knowing It dunt even change us being fans , as you say it's a need to know thing and we don't need to know
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A couple of things to note, there's loads of examples of clubs managing to tip the balance in this League and get promoted on miles smaller budgets and even more examples of those with massive budgets failing miserably, I don't think it's that important as a benchmark of the Owners intentions.
Despite reading this post, I'm no wiser as to why they wouldn't include that information. It may not be relevant to us as supporters and may create moaning but i don't think anyone would look at £2million put in for the last financial year and truly expect to be squeezing somebody else's money for free.
It was the start of last season that Gavin Baldwin stated we had a competitive budget which was vague at best as it didn't state competitive against what ambition. If it was promotion you would expect it would be behind Blackburn and Wigan (obviously) But similar to the pack that follows behind should we wish to compete for the Championship. We've lost a number of big earners this year with Williams and Evina on a decent sum and Baudry potentially not far behind. The players that we bring in this year should give us a good indication of whether we're looking at a wage reduction or not.
Because they don't have to and full accounts take more time and money. Why do it if it's not needed? Also in a competitive market keep it confidential if you can.
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99.99% of companies in the land submit abbreviated accounts. Why would anyone give more information than they had to to competitors.
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A couple of things to note, there's loads of examples of clubs managing to tip the balance in this League and get promoted on miles smaller budgets and even more examples of those with massive budgets failing miserably, I don't think it's that important as a benchmark of the Owners intentions.
Despite reading this post, I'm no wiser as to why they wouldn't include that information. It may not be relevant to us as supporters and may create moaning but i don't think anyone would look at £2million put in for the last financial year and truly expect to be squeezing somebody else's money for free.
It was the start of last season that Gavin Baldwin stated we had a competitive budget which was vague at best as it didn't state competitive against what ambition. If it was promotion you would expect it would be behind Blackburn and Wigan (obviously) But similar to the pack that follows behind should we wish to compete for the Championship. We've lost a number of big earners this year with Williams and Evina on a decent sum and Baudry potentially not far behind. The players that we bring in this year should give us a good indication of whether we're looking at a wage reduction or not.
Because they don't have to and full accounts take more time and money. Why do it if it's not needed? Also in a competitive market keep it confidential if you can.
I'm no accountant so I don't have the knowledge you will have but I'd imagine anything declared on this report would be wage turnover for all colleagues within the business. Obviously the only area most of us would be bothered about would be the playing budget.
For me, the 'competitive' wording needs a bit of meat adding to the bones. What is it competitive for? If the aim this season is a top 6 finish, does that equate to a top 6 budget?
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Exactly. Talking about budgets is a complete waste of time because non of us can translate it in to whether it's a promotion budget or relegation budget.
We need a midfield General. Should we be able to pick one up who costs 2k a week, 3k, 4k, 5k, 6k? We do not have a clue. Makes me laugh when folk say 'we can't afford him' etc.
Well, we can afford Coppinger, Butler, Rowe and Marquis who have to be up there as top players in the division.
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For some years now we have met with the club when the accounts have been released, we've been able to table questions and discuss the items that we see as relevant. I can't remember when so many questions and debate has happened around this, therefore I feel a little clarification is called for.
Any good supporters trust will have as its main areas of concern the governance of the club, its ownership and shareholdings, and above all the financial viability of that football club. And that's the reason we meet and discuss these issues. We want to be assured that the club is in good hands, that its financially stable and to also see its direction of travel.
That's why the questions, and the report you see in the OP, is structured the way it is. We are concerned about ownership and shareholdings, along with current financial issues. What we are not concerned with is the size of the budget, and therefore all questions about playing matters are not important in a report like this. Its an overview, a snapshot of the club at a moment in time, and one that enables us to base our opinion on what we can see and hear.
And from those meetings its quite clear the club is in great hands. We are debt free! How many clubs can say that? There are no outstanding loans, no fear of administration through organisational or ownership changes, and to top it all a stadium that generates significant revenue streams that can only benefit us in the future. When has this club ever been able to do any of that in the past?
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Brilliant................Now what about ambition? How are we going to get promotion with a smaller playing squad? Is there going to be any more money for the manager to improve his squad?
These are the questions that most DRFC fans want answering.
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Brilliant................Now what about ambition? How are we going to get promotion with a smaller playing squad? Is there going to be any more money for the manager to improve his squad?
These are the questions that most DRFC fans want answering.
Those are possibly questions for a Meet the Owners event. You could ask them there directly.
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Brilliant................Now what about ambition? How are we going to get promotion with a smaller playing squad? Is there going to be any more money for the manager to improve his squad?
These are the questions that most DRFC fans want answering.
Those are possibly questions for a Meet the Owners event. You could ask them there directly.
Yeah. You're not going to get the answer to the future budget in the accounts for a previous year.
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Brilliant................Now what about ambition? How are we going to get promotion with a smaller playing squad? Is there going to be any more money for the manager to improve his squad?
These are the questions that most DRFC fans want answering.
Good to see you totally ignored the post then. And you obviously don't understand how things work if you genuinely think the board and/or manager are going to tell the world how much we have to spend.
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I always get the feeling that if I tell a salesman exactly what I wanted to spend on a car, kitchen glazing etc. I would end up paying that price for something that I might have got cheaper.
Telling clubs your budget lets them and agents hype up the price in my eyes.
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Budget and wages are irrelevant if we sign quality league 1 players in the summer. Gavin says the plan is to build for a consolidated Championship side by 2022. Therefore we need to start with improving the squad this upcoming season.
Whether it’s a big squad or small squad there must be at least 18 players who are up to league 1 standard. We need another 4/5 to get there. 4 is the minimum for me 1 centre half, 2 midfield players and a striker(the hardest and costliest). I would like those to be our players.
So to the VSC and the club it’s good we have a stable and debt free club. At the end of season 2017. What last season accounts show may be the same?
But that on its own won’t get us up the league won’t attract more supporters. We need to see results and performances Home is the preference but Away as well.
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Brilliant................Now what about ambition? How are we going to get promotion with a smaller playing squad? Is there going to be any more money for the manager to improve his squad?
These are the questions that most DRFC fans want answering.
Good to see you totally ignored the post then. And you obviously don't understand how things work if you genuinely think the board and/or manager are going to tell the world how much we have to spend.
]Brilliant................Now what about ambition? How are we going to get promotion with a smaller playing squad? Is there going to be any more money for the manager to improve his squad?
These are the questions that most DRFC fans want answering.
Good to see you totally ignored the post then. And you obviously don't understand how things work if you genuinely think the board and/or manager are going to tell the world how much we have to spend.
Nobody asked how much or what amount of money we have to spend. Learn to read and stop being a brown nose.
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So "is there going to be any more money for the manager" isn't asking how much we've got to spend?
They've already said the purpose of this wasn't anything to do with the playing budget, apologies for understanding the idea behind the report on the accounts x
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So "is there going to be any more money for the manager" isn't asking how much we've got to spend?
They've already said the purpose of this wasn't anything to do with the playing budget, apologies for understanding the idea behind the report on the accounts x
Of course it isn't asking how much have we got to spend. Surely even you can see that?
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I'll have watched Rovers for sixty years in August and can't remember ever being told what we were going to spend.
Surely the manager will have identified targets and submitted his list to the board. They will tell DF how much he has and let him get on with it.
Should a bargain or too good to miss player come up then the Board might stretch the budget further.
Our guesses on any budget will probably only be confirmed once signings are made.
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Some people are obsessed with "the budget".
Nowhere have I mentioned "the budget" I will repeat what I originally posted for those with a reading problem.
Now what about ambition? How are we going to get promotion with a smaller playing squad? Is there going to be any more money for the manager to improve his squad?
These are the questions that most DRFC fans want answering.
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Surely asking about money is a question about the budget, how you can argue otherwise I don't know.
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Surely asking about money is a question about the budget, how you can argue otherwise I don't know.
I don't know what the budget is do you?
Tell me the answer to how a club intend to progress by standing still in terms of finances or going backwards in terms of size of its squad.
We have very different ideas. I am ambitious and ambition involves a bit of speculation.
You on the other hand appear to be happy as long as we balance the books and acheive sustainability no matter what division we are in.
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Have they said we will stand still financially though?
As far as squad size goes Evina and Lund were loaned out last season and Williams barely featured so better quality rather than larger numbers makes sense. Loan players will feature again and Danny Amos looks to be good enough to join match day squads.
The board came up with their five year plan so I'm sure when the season is a month in, and we have had a chance to judge our new signings we might have an answer. What is ambition to one fan is stagnation to another. All we can do is wait and see.
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Surely asking about money is a question about the budget, how you can argue otherwise I don't know.
I don't know what the budget is do you?
Tell me the answer to how a club intend to progress by standing still in terms of finances or going backwards in terms of size of its squad.
We have very different ideas. I am ambitious and ambition involves a bit of speculation.
You on the other hand appear to be happy as long as we balance the books and acheive sustainability no matter what division we are in.
Why is the club standing still in terms of finances? The accounts show that despite a relegation to a lower league the money handed over by TB and the Watson family remained pretty consistent which was a major boost to our promotion chances and playing budget enabling us to achieve promotion at the first time of asking.
If you are as ambitious as you say you are then maybe you should be the one putting his hand in his pocket, or possibly finding another club to support, one that matches your ambitions in terms of squad size and quality.
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Red, looks like your idea of supporting a club is like getting married to a wife who spends her husbands money on trinkets.
Probably why the divorce rate is up.
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Surely asking about money is a question about the budget, how you can argue otherwise I don't know.
I don't know what the budget is do you?
Tell me the answer to how a club intend to progress by standing still in terms of finances or going backwards in terms of size of its squad.
We have very different ideas. I am ambitious and ambition involves a bit of speculation.
You on the other hand appear to be happy as long as we balance the books and acheive sustainability no matter what division we are in.
Why is the club standing still in terms of finances? The accounts show that despite a relegation to a lower league the money handed over by TB and the Watson family remained pretty consistent which was a major boost to our promotion chances and playing budget enabling us to achieve promotion at the first time of asking.
If you are as ambitious as you say you are then maybe you should be the one putting his hand in his pocket, or possibly finding another club to support, one that matches your ambitions in terms of squad size and quality.
I am putting my hand in my pocket. It is also probably fair to say a great number of Rovers fans are putting a higher percentage of their yearly income into the club than members of the board.
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Surely asking about money is a question about the budget, how you can argue otherwise I don't know.
I don't know what the budget is do you?
Tell me the answer to how a club intend to progress by standing still in terms of finances or going backwards in terms of size of its squad.
We have very different ideas. I am ambitious and ambition involves a bit of speculation.
You on the other hand appear to be happy as long as we balance the books and acheive sustainability no matter what division we are in.
Why is the club standing still in terms of finances? The accounts show that despite a relegation to a lower league the money handed over by TB and the Watson family remained pretty consistent which was a major boost to our promotion chances and playing budget enabling us to achieve promotion at the first time of asking.
If you are as ambitious as you say you are then maybe you should be the one putting his hand in his pocket, or possibly finding another club to support, one that matches your ambitions in terms of squad size and quality.
I am putting my hand in my pocket. It is also probably fair to say a great number of Rovers fans are putting a higher percentage of their yearly income into the club than members of the board.
That's not an argument though is it? Just because you spend £300 to £400 that doesn't make you ambitious nor a speculator, nor does it give you a right to demand that our owners spend more than the £2.2m they currently do, no matter what they earn.
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Surely asking about money is a question about the budget, how you can argue otherwise I don't know.
I don't know what the budget is do you?
Tell me the answer to how a club intend to progress by standing still in terms of finances or going backwards in terms of size of its squad.
We have very different ideas. I am ambitious and ambition involves a bit of speculation.
You on the other hand appear to be happy as long as we balance the books and acheive sustainability no matter what division we are in.
Why is the club standing still in terms of finances? The accounts show that despite a relegation to a lower league the money handed over by TB and the Watson family remained pretty consistent which was a major boost to our promotion chances and playing budget enabling us to achieve promotion at the first time of asking.
If you are as ambitious as you say you are then maybe you should be the one putting his hand in his pocket, or possibly finding another club to support, one that matches your ambitions in terms of squad size and quality.
I am putting my hand in my pocket. It is also probably fair to say a great number of Rovers fans are putting a higher percentage of their yearly income into the club than members of the board.
That's not an argument though is it? Just because you spend £300 to £400 that doesn't make you ambitious nor a speculator, nor does it give you a right to demand that our owners spend more than the £2.2m they currently do, no matter what they earn.
There is a difference however between "demanding" the directors put more money in and questioning their ambition.
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Surely asking about money is a question about the budget, how you can argue otherwise I don't know.
I don't know what the budget is do you?
Tell me the answer to how a club intend to progress by standing still in terms of finances or going backwards in terms of size of its squad.
We have very different ideas. I am ambitious and ambition involves a bit of speculation.
You on the other hand appear to be happy as long as we balance the books and acheive sustainability no matter what division we are in.
Why is the club standing still in terms of finances? The accounts show that despite a relegation to a lower league the money handed over by TB and the Watson family remained pretty consistent which was a major boost to our promotion chances and playing budget enabling us to achieve promotion at the first time of asking.
If you are as ambitious as you say you are then maybe you should be the one putting his hand in his pocket, or possibly finding another club to support, one that matches your ambitions in terms of squad size and quality.
I am putting my hand in my pocket. It is also probably fair to say a great number of Rovers fans are putting a higher percentage of their yearly income into the club than members of the board.
That's not an argument though is it? Just because you spend £300 to £400 that doesn't make you ambitious nor a speculator, nor does it give you a right to demand that our owners spend more than the £2.2m they currently do, no matter what they earn.
There is a difference however between "demanding" the directors put more money in and questioning their ambition.
If you were ambitious for the club int he way you want the directors to be, you'd be giving them more than the face value of anything you buy. I bet you don't. Just paying the face value of something sold doesn't make you an investor, just a consumer. Nothing more.
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Surely asking about money is a question about the budget, how you can argue otherwise I don't know.
I don't know what the budget is do you?
Tell me the answer to how a club intend to progress by standing still in terms of finances or going backwards in terms of size of its squad.
We have very different ideas. I am ambitious and ambition involves a bit of speculation.
You on the other hand appear to be happy as long as we balance the books and acheive sustainability no matter what division we are in.
Why is the club standing still in terms of finances? The accounts show that despite a relegation to a lower league the money handed over by TB and the Watson family remained pretty consistent which was a major boost to our promotion chances and playing budget enabling us to achieve promotion at the first time of asking.
If you are as ambitious as you say you are then maybe you should be the one putting his hand in his pocket, or possibly finding another club to support, one that matches your ambitions in terms of squad size and quality.
I am putting my hand in my pocket. It is also probably fair to say a great number of Rovers fans are putting a higher percentage of their yearly income into the club than members of the board.
That's not an argument though is it? Just because you spend £300 to £400 that doesn't make you ambitious nor a speculator, nor does it give you a right to demand that our owners spend more than the £2.2m they currently do, no matter what they earn.
There is a difference however between "demanding" the directors put more money in and questioning their ambition.
If you were ambitious for the club int he way you want the directors to be, you'd be giving them more than the face value of anything you buy. I bet you don't. Just paying the face value of something sold doesn't make you an investor, just a consumer. Nothing more.
So paying into the alliance each month makes me a consumer does it? I pay as much as I can afford to.
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This is what you tend to hear. How a number of discontents judge ambition, measuring someone's perceived wealth against the money being injected into the club year on year to support the clubs losses.
Just think for a moment, if we were not to receive that support, what would happen? There isn't a queue of genuine investors willing or able to pump in the kind of money you perceive that's needed to buy our way to promotion to the Championship.
I for one, am comfortable and grateful for their support and also believe we can achieve the objective by 'sustainable' means.
As supporters we pays our money and make our choices. I won't be chucking my pension pot at the club and I suspect TB and the Watson's won't either. That means they only are likely to have limited disposable income too.
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This is what you tend to hear. How a number of discontents judge ambition, measuring someone's perceived wealth against the money being injected into the club year on year to support the clubs losses.
Just think for a moment, if we were not to receive that support, what would happen? There isn't a queue of genuine investors willing or able to pump in the kind of money you perceive that's needed to buy our way to promotion to the Championship.
I for one, am comfortable and grateful for their support and also believe we can achieve the objective by 'sustainable' means.
As supporters we pays our money and make our choices. I won't be chucking my pension pot at the club and I suspect TB and the Watson's won't either. That means they only are likely to have limited disposable income too.
A man who at the last count had a net worth of £425 million with limited disposable income? What planet are you on?
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So you have access to his accounts? How he chooses to spend his money is his affair just as you make your choices in life.
Alternatively, you could have other ways to fund a football club year on year. Crowdfunder?
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This is what you tend to hear. How a number of discontents judge ambition, measuring someone's perceived wealth against the money being injected into the club year on year to support the clubs losses.
Just think for a moment, if we were not to receive that support, what would happen? There isn't a queue of genuine investors willing or able to pump in the kind of money you perceive that's needed to buy our way to promotion to the Championship.
I for one, am comfortable and grateful for their support and also believe we can achieve the objective by 'sustainable' means.
As supporters we pays our money and make our choices. I won't be chucking my pension pot at the club and I suspect TB and the Watson's won't either. That means they only are likely to have limited disposable income too.
A man who at the last count had a net worth of £425 million with limited disposable income? What planet are you on?
Ahhh. That's who it is.
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So you have access to his accounts? How he chooses to spend his money is his affair just as you make your choices in life.
Alternatively, you could have other ways to fund a football club year on year. Crowdfunder?
You need to get out more. Have you ever heard of the Sunday Times Rich list?
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So you have access to his accounts? How he chooses to spend his money is his affair just as you make your choices in life.
Alternatively, you could have other ways to fund a football club year on year. Crowdfunder?
You need to get out more. Have you ever heard of the Sunday Times Rich list?
Net worth isn't disposable income.
If it was, you'd probably be worth about £175,000 and would be putting in about £400.00 pa, which is pretty poor.
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So you have access to his accounts? How he chooses to spend his money is his affair just as you make your choices in life.
Alternatively, you could have other ways to fund a football club year on year. Crowdfunder?
You need to get out more. Have you ever heard of the Sunday Times Rich list?
Net worth isn't disposable income.
If it was, you'd probably be worth about £175,000 and would be putting in about £400.00 pa, which is pretty poor.
The point raised by DBR was that he is likely to have limited disposable income.
Not sure what the point you are trying to make is.
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Surely asking about money is a question about the budget, how you can argue otherwise I don't know.
I don't know what the budget is do you?
Tell me the answer to how a club intend to progress by standing still in terms of finances or going backwards in terms of size of its squad.
We have very different ideas. I am ambitious and ambition involves a bit of speculation.
You on the other hand appear to be happy as long as we balance the books and acheive sustainability no matter what division we are in.
So, Cantley. You want to others to speculate with their money to satisfy your ambition...
My God!! you are an ambitious fellow.
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So you have access to his accounts? How he chooses to spend his money is his affair just as you make your choices in life.
Alternatively, you could have other ways to fund a football club year on year. Crowdfunder?
You need to get out more. Have you ever heard of the Sunday Times Rich list?
Net worth isn't disposable income.
If it was, you'd probably be worth about £175,000 and would be putting in about £400.00 pa, which is pretty poor.
The point raised by DBR was that he is likely to have limited disposable income.
Not sure what the point you are trying to make is.
Don't worry, I think I've made it.
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Surely asking about money is a question about the budget, how you can argue otherwise I don't know.
I don't know what the budget is do you?
Tell me the answer to how a club intend to progress by standing still in terms of finances or going backwards in terms of size of its squad.
We have very different ideas. I am ambitious and ambition involves a bit of speculation.
You on the other hand appear to be happy as long as we balance the books and acheive sustainability no matter what division we are in.
So, Cantley. You want to others to speculate with their money to satisfy your ambition...
My God!! you are an ambitious fellow.
I would be more interested in seeing what their ambition is. Oh I forgot they want to get into the Championship with a smaller squad and spending less money. Now that is ambitious!
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Surely asking about money is a question about the budget, how you can argue otherwise I don't know.
I don't know what the budget is do you?
Tell me the answer to how a club intend to progress by standing still in terms of finances or going backwards in terms of size of its squad.
We have very different ideas. I am ambitious and ambition involves a bit of speculation.
You on the other hand appear to be happy as long as we balance the books and acheive sustainability no matter what division we are in.
So, Cantley. You want to others to speculate with their money to satisfy your ambition...
My God!! you are an ambitious fellow.
I would be more interested in seeing what their ambition is. Oh I forgot they want to get into the Championship with a smaller squad and spending less money. Now that is ambitious!
How is it less money, bearing in mind you've already stated you've no idea what the budget is, so don't have a starting point for comparison.
Why are you contradicting yourself?
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Literally no point trying to continue as he's already made his mind up what's what despite openly admitting he has no idea.
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I'm inclined to agree.
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A successful club needs good leadership both on and off the field, I think we have basically got both. Our on the field improvement has been good over a long period, our off the field improvement could be described as spectacular since our conference days.
Contrast that with Leeds, Portsmouth, Birmingham, Bolton, Sunderland, Derby County, Coventry City, Glasgow Rangers And others who in some cases are lucky to still be alive and kicking, mostly because at some point they have overspent and been ambitious, chasing a dream they could not afford.
In every case the only people to suffer have been the supporters, the players, the management, mostly just leave and get a better job elsewhere.
Nobody wants us to do well on the field more than me, but football has a way of costing more money than anything else I know when things are not run the correct way, and not many managers will not spend whatever they are given without a thought.
Financial leadership comes from the board, the manager runs the teams, and i expect the board to be prudent enough not to endanger the clubs sustainability, and thank them for the funds they inject every season to keep us competitive at our level whatever that is.
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There's one thing for sure, I'm not going to spend the whole close season worrying about something that I can't influence.
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There's one thing for sure, I'm not going to spend the whole close season worrying about something that I can't influence.
Absolutely right Idler, i shall be attempting to enjoy the world cup and leaving to worrying to the manager. COYR