Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: DonnyOsmond on May 14, 2018, 12:06:58 pm
-
https://m.soundcloud.com/user-914121770/loi-weekly-s02e13 (https://m.soundcloud.com/user-914121770/loi-weekly-s02e13)
39 mins in. Some bits on the Experiment and Ferguson. Isn't here now but still rates Ferguson as a manager.
-
It’s the opinion of a few players I believe.
Mate of mine is very good mates with Lee Butler and Copps and used to go away with them quite regular. Apparently Copps has said that Fergie is one of the best managers he’s played under, he also didn’t rate Dickov or his approaches very much.
-
That’s another player who says Darren Ferguson is a good manager. Even when Darren let him go. That bit about money out of his own pocket?
The experiment experience for the players yet again comes across as mutiny not unity no wonder it failed, whoever was responsible.
-
What bar did he own?
-
What bar did he own?
I think it was the Marketplace Ale and Deli bar
-
What bar did he own?
I think it was the Marketplace Ale and Deli bar
That’s the bar in town (with the deli). Keegan’s was the marketplace bar in Bawtry. Decent little venue located between the Crown and the Dower House.
-
He owns one in Ireland too .. or at least did.
-
What bar did he own?
I think it was the Marketplace Ale and Deli bar
That’s the bar in town (with the deli). Keegan’s was the marketplace bar in Bawtry. Decent little venue located between the Crown and the Dower House.
Ah. Put two and two together and came up with 5!
-
I thought the Bawtry bar was owned by his ex girlfriend’s mother. Didn’t his ex win a beauty competition for over 30’s or milfs or something like
-
Dickov was a chancer. End of story.
-
According to the article in the Star, Keegan stated that Fergie will need a good budget if Rovers are to reach the upper levels of League One. I suppose that takes us back to the question posed in another thread, what constitutes a good budget?
-
I suppose that takes us back to the question posed in another thread, what constitutes a good budget?
One that is based around a robust set of assumptions. It should also be subject to review, approval and regular monitoring. Or were you talking about the specific figures? In which case I have no idea!
-
Not necessarily about the size, but how you use it.
Wouldn't know from first hand experience, mind.
-
Wolves were in freefall when he took over in fairness, Crawley were in the shit and he almost kept them up - they were in with a great shout on the final day of the season I'm fairly sure, and Chesterfield had sold a lot of their best players and not really given him the resources to replace them, because they were up shit creek financially, as we're now seeing.
-
Dean Saunders is a dreadful, awful manager and he got found out very quickly once he left us. Not at all surprised he failed miserably everywhere he went after us. He had half a season to keep Wolves up, they should've never gone down. And his Crawley side we faced was one of the worst I've seen at this level.
The one thing I will ever credit him for is the recruitment in the summer of 2012 that set us up for promotion (and I still think Flynn made a big difference to our hopes as well as his additions to just sweeten the quality of the squad) because he brought in some vital players. But he's no football manager.
-
RA, you my be right about him as a manager, but as a broadcaster on Talksport I find him and Gordon Strachan two of the best guests they have.
He is insightful and as ever entertaining, probably an ex player who struggles to get their ideas across, although I think from his attitude it would be more one of not accepting the lack of effort by modern players that gets peoples backs up.
The one thing you can say about his time at the Rovers, is that he left us in a better position than where we were when he first came, and probably regrets ever leaving us at the time he did.
-
Dean Saunders is a dreadful, awful manager and he got found out very quickly once he left us. Not at all surprised he failed miserably everywhere he went after us. He had half a season to keep Wolves up, they should've never gone down. And his Crawley side we faced was one of the worst I've seen at this level.
The one thing I will ever credit him for is the recruitment in the summer of 2012 that set us up for promotion (and I still think Flynn made a big difference to our hopes as well as his additions to just sweeten the quality of the squad) because he brought in some vital players. But he's no football manager.
Well he turned us into a TEAM didn’t he. Might not have been pretty to watch at times, but mighty effective and the team spirit was brilliant. A proper unit they were. If that makes him a bad manager then he must have been one of the worst ever. ;)
-
If you listen to Saunders on talk sport I think he comes across well. Talks some sense and his explanations and thoughts appear well thought out
-
Must admit he comes across as a bit of a clown when I hear things about the kind of stuff that was going off during the experiment but I think it's been established that that was a farce and should be written off as such. He obviously did something right to get that team running through brick walls for each other.
-
I wonder if it's only Rovers fans that can treat success with so much apathy yet embrace mediocrity so enthusiastically?
-
RA, you my be right about him as a manager, but as a broadcaster on Talksport I find him and Gordon Strachan two of the best guests they have.
He is insightful and as ever entertaining, probably an ex player who struggles to get their ideas across, although I think from his attitude it would be more one of not accepting the lack of effort by modern players that gets peoples backs up.
The one thing you can say about his time at the Rovers, is that he left us in a better position than where we were when he first came, and probably regrets ever leaving us at the time he did.
If you class where we were when he arrived as being untouched by "the experiment" then he didn't leave us in any better place than when he arrived, however that certainly isn't his fault and fair play to him for persevering past that period for us and, as I gave him credit for before, building a good squad that went on to win the title after he left.
-
Am I right in saying that Sean O'Driscoll said that he'd taken the club as far as he could, prior to him leaving?
-
Am I right in saying that Sean O'Driscoll said that he'd taken the club as far as he could, prior to him leaving?
I think so. I think relegation was inevitable that season. Whether SO'D could have taken us straight back up while slashing the wage bill like Saunders and Flynn did I'm not so sure.
-
I think SOD said he'd need to rebuild and going down may have been required to do that but I don't think JR was keen on us going backwards even if it eventually meant going forwards, we did end up going down anyway though.
-
I think SOD later said he regretted making that comment as it effectively ‘got him the sack’ (his words).
-
Just read Keegan's piece. You can understand the disruption 'the experiment' was likely to cause and did cause. From SO'Ds perspective, it would have gone against his principles and, to a point, maybe he had taken us as far as he could. No shame in that at all.
You can also understand JR's desperation to keep us in the Championship. Given where we were, and McKay selling him an escape plan, it was maybe worth a gamble but I think everyone realised it was a short term gamble and normal service needed to be resumed sooner rather than later, as it just wasn't sustainable. Ironically, I would have thought the 'football men' would have advised against the experiment. I reluctantly supported the experiment then and, possibly would now. It could have succeeded.
In Saunders position, he gave it his best shot at managing the situation but, as Keegan said, as soon as the experiment ended, he quickly assembled (with the help of his fellow Welshman) a team with many opposite, and desirable characteristics. Grit and determination. For that, I would have liked to see Saunders finish what he'd started.
Let's hope we don't find ourselves in that same position again. Hindsight tells us it's better to take your medicine, take the relegation and rebuild without the catastrophic consequences of losing Co-owners, dividing fans and taking far too long to repair the damage.
-
Back to Keegan - he was a player of limited ability and needed a ‘playmaker’ alongside him. That is not meant as disrespectful to PK as what he did in breaking up play he was bloody good at. We missed a player of his ilk last season.
Unfortunate that injuries took their toll on him and limited his appearances for us. With PK you always got 100% and I wish him well for the future
-
How any Rovers fan can call Saunders a dreadful manager is beyond me
-
How any Rovers fan can call Saunders a dreadful manager is beyond me
Agreed. Fergies football is just as poor to watch just without the backbone to see out games. The squad Saunders built is one of my favourites of my Rovers supporting lifetime.
-
How any Rovers fan can call Saunders a dreadful manager is beyond me
Saunders is a poor manager. Just ask the players that have played for him.
-
If Dean Saunders is such a good manager, why isn’t he managing now and why was he sack from Wolves.
COYR
-
Every football manager I've ever heard of has been sacked by at least one team.
-
Look at his achievements as manager, there is not a lot to cheer about.
COYR
-
If Dean Saunders is such a good manager, why isn’t he managing now and why was he sack from Wolves.
COYR
You could say that about a lot of managers. Loot at Penney. Look at Curbishley. Look at SO'D. I don't think anyone would deny their achievements but for whatever reason they've not done a lot as first team managers recently, by choice in most cases. Maybe Saunders finds the money better in his punditry work for the amount of work and travel he has to do.
-
Being a football manager is extremely hard work and stressful. Just because they are not in a managers job now doesn't mean they were crap at it. If you can earn a living elsewhere in a far less stressful environment, who can blame them?
-
If he was as good as some people are saying them there would have been a offer he couldn’t refuse. I for one didn’t think he was that good as a manager.
COYR
-
Nobody has said he was good enough to be holding on to at any price, especially when Wolves would have paid us for his release.
The team he assembled the season we won this division, on paper, was nowhere near a top end contender yet they managed to take the trophy.
-
If Dean Saunders is such a good manager, why isn’t he managing now and why was he sack from Wolves.
COYR
If SOD was such a good manager why was he sacked by Forest and why isn't he managing now?
Just shows how silly your post was doesn't it.
-
If Dean Saunders is such a good manager, why isn’t he managing now and why was he sack from Wolves.
COYR
If SOD was such a good manager why was he sacked by Forest and why isn't he managing now?
Just shows how silly your post was doesn't it.
Not really, I wasn’t talking about Sod I was talking about Saunders and I standby what I said, I don’t think he was a good manager
COYR
-
Can you expand on that? Why don’t you think he was a good manager and please don’t churn out any well such and such a player said, please give me your own thoughts. Thank you
-
SOD was doing a great job at Forest but new owners came in and wanted a big name. So Alex McCleish was appointed and made a balls of it. Forest fans wanted SOD to stay.
COYR
[/quote]
If SOD was such a good manager why was he sacked by Forest and why isn't he managing now?
Just shows how silly your post was doesn't it.
[/quote]
-
Can you expand on that? Why don’t you think he was a good manager and please don’t churn out any well such and such a player said, please give me your own thoughts. Thank you
Can you tell me why you think he was a good one. And please don’t churn out well such and such a player said. Please give me your own thoughts. Thank you
COYR
-
He built a squad decimated after the experiment that could mix it with the best of this division at the time and while built a team that played ugly, we were incredibly hard to beat. He was by no means my favourite manager by any stretch but he was a miles better manager than Dickov and as I've already stated, I much preferred the squad he had then to the one we have now.
-
Can you expand on that? Why don’t you think he was a good manager and please don’t churn out any well such and such a player said, please give me your own thoughts. Thank you
Can you tell me why you think he was a good one. And please don’t churn out well such and such a player said. Please give me your own thoughts. Thank you
COYR
"I can't answer your question so I'll deflect attention away and try and get away with asking my own in response."
-
No not really, you say why you think he was a good manager. IMHO he wasnt
COYR
-
I liked the squad that Saunders put together. But I wouldn’t credit him with too much managerial nous. The wage bill in 12/13 was outrageous. Pretty much the same wage bill that Dickov had in 13/14 in the Championship and far, far higher than any wage bill we’ve had in L1 before or since.
In that light, anything other than promotion would have been a disaster. And whilst I enjoy watching a team based on solidity and steel, given what he spent in wages, I think we had the right to have expected a bit more silk than he produced.
-
Every football manager I've ever heard of has been sacked by at least one team.
Never heard of Bob Paisly then?
-
Alex Ferguson?
Every football manager I've ever heard of has been sacked by at least one team.
-
Saunders seems to be an interesting character but the Under the Cosh podcast offers a real insight, from several players who played under him, about his man management skills. He gets hammered by a few of them for letting the players such as Dioulasso and beye run rings round him, lacking a back bone and by doing so causing deep rifts in the squad. For me he was a character, built a good side in his second season that played some of the dullest football I’ve ever seen; he also lacked any form of loyalty in the way he left Wrexham and rovers so for me I’d not have him back and can see why he never really progressed after leaving donny.
-
Alex Ferguson?
Every football manager I've ever heard of has been sacked by at least one team.
Ferguson was sacked by St Mirren
-
Saunders seems to be an interesting character but the Under the Cosh podcast offers a real insight, from several players who played under him, about his man management skills. He gets hammered by a few of them for letting the players such as Dioulasso and beye run rings round him, lacking a back bone and by doing so causing deep rifts in the squad. For me he was a character, built a good side in his second season that played some of the dullest football I’ve ever seen; he also lacked any form of loyalty in the way he left Wrexham and rovers so for me I’d not have him back and can see why he never really progressed after leaving donny.
It always makes me laugh when people go on about loyalty.
I presume you have only ever worked for one company then?
I have moved from one company to another to better myself in my career. Never for a minute did I think I was being disloyal.
-
No not really, you say why you think he was a good manager. IMHO he wasnt
COYR
You were asked first as to why he isn't a good manager. Answer the man's question.
-
Every football manager I've ever heard of has been sacked by at least one team.
Never heard of Bob Paisly then?
Nope
-
I liked the side Saunders built but I couldn’t give him too much credit for winning the title. I could be wrong but I think we were 4th or 5th when left and Flynn brought in some influential players after Saunders had left
-
I thought we were first or second when Saunders left, but I could be mistaken
-
No not really, you say why you think he was a good manager. IMHO he wasnt
COYR
You were asked first as to why he isn't a good manager. Answer the man's question.
Okay, he over saw the failed experiment which was poorly handle due to his poor man mangerment skills, something that is essential to all good managers.
He allowed internal conflict to to be rife with a them and us attitude in the team.
He allowed personnel not to train fully
He played players that were not good enough when better players were on the bench or not even in the match day squad.
Personnel were signed and didn’t play, why allow this?
When he played Doncaster Rovers players the following season we saw a vast improvement in standards, but then he jumped ship and moved to Wolves, did nothing there and got sacked. He wasn’t able to turn them around.
Since then he has moved down the league and done absolutely nothing with the teams he went to.
Now you tell me why you think he was a good manager.
Happy now pal
COYR
-
Every football manager I've ever heard of has been sacked by at least one team.
Never heard of Bob Paisly then?
Nope
Bob Paisley, Joe Fagin, Bill Shankly.
None if those were sacked.
Topical subject bearing in mind the CL game today.
-
Regarding the "experiment" do you think he had much choice in which player was brought in, who played, when they trained etc because I don't, to use that single season as a reason for being a good or bad manager is unreasonable. He may not have been responsible for bringing in the whole 1st team for the 2nd season but Flynn can't be given all the credit. The style of play may have been poor on the eye but it was very effective and as for jumping ship there are not many managers in their 1st job as a League manager who wouldn't want to go to a "bigger club" in a higher league given the opportunity. As for what he did having jumped ship I couldn't give a monkeys for me he did a good job as manager of DRFC.
I think I've given my answer without any hearsay did you?
-
I liked the side Saunders built but I couldn’t give him too much credit for winning the title. I could be wrong but I think we were 4th or 5th when left and Flynn brought in some influential players after Saunders had left
We were 2nd when Saunders left. Level on points with Tranmere. Behind them by 3 GD.
Record under Saunders that season.
P26 W15 D5 L6 PPG1.92
Record under Flynn
P20 W10 D4 L6. PPG 1.70
It’s a myth that Flynn improved the side that Saunders left. We dropped from title-winning form to play-off form under Flynn. We won the title because:
a) The best side from the first half of the season (Tranmere) collapsed.
b) The best side in the second half of the season (Bournemouth) had had a shocking first half.
c) Everyone else was distinctly average.
So, although we faltered badly under Flynn, so did no side could take advantage of it. There was only one side that had title winning form over the last 20 games and they were coming from so far back that they couldn’t beat us to the title.
Flynn was a decent man I’m sure but he very, very nearly made a reight balls up of that season.
-
I still don’t get why people think Saunders was a good manager,his overall win ratio as a league manager must be one of the worst in recent years. I don’t count his time at Wrexham because that is non-league
-
I liked the side Saunders built but I couldn’t give him too much credit for winning the title. I could be wrong but I think we were 4th or 5th when left and Flynn brought in some influential players after Saunders had left
We were 2nd when Saunders left. Level on points with Tranmere. Behind them by 3 GD.
Record under Saunders that season.
P26 W15 D5 L6 PPG1.92
Record under Flynn
P20 W10 D4 L6. PPG 1.70
It’s a myth that Flynn improved the side that Saunders left. We dropped from title-winning form to play-off form under Flynn. We won the title because:
a) The best side from the first half of the season (Tranmere) collapsed.
b) The best side in the second half of the season (Bournemouth) had had a shocking first half.
c) Everyone else was distinctly average.
So, although we faltered badly under Flynn, so did no side could take advantage of it. There was only one side that had title winning form over the last 20 games and they were coming from so far back that they couldn’t beat us to the title.
Flynn was a decent man I’m sure but he very, very nearly made a reight balls up of that season.
Look at Bournemouth's home form late in the season that year.
I went and I'm sure that they had lost about three on the trot before we beat them 1-2 with that late goal from James Husband.
A far better performance than the one I witnessed at MK Dons the previous Tuesday.
-
They lost five on the bounce including our rather fortunate win against them. But those were the only 5 they lost in the last 20 games. They won 14 and drew 1 of the other 15. Best form of the closing section of the season by far.
Shame about that one draw, eh?
-
With Saunders the plus was the team around him both on and off the pitch - eg JR, Jones, Flynn. Some of that was due to him. He himself was the right personality as manager even if lacking in some of the in game abilities. The trainer he brought in - forget his name - seemed to be a very big part of what was going on. I think he helped create a disciplined backbone and approach to the play.
Really interesting view on the experiment from Keegan, though hadn't realised it was SOD who brought us up from the Conference :laugh: thanks for that link :thumbsup:
-
As an aside, I just looked up the players who came in with "The Experiment" - apart from Diouf and Fortune they all practically disappeared off the football radar after being with us - Robert being the best of the rest with one season in League 1. There's no doubt McKay scammed us.
-
With Saunders the plus was the team around him both on and off the pitch - eg JR, Jones, Flynn. Some of that was due to him. He himself was the right personality as manager even if lacking in some of the in game abilities. The trainer he brought in - forget his name - seemed to be a very big part of what was going on. I think he helped create a disciplined backbone and approach to the play.
Really interesting view on the experiment from Keegan, though hadn't realised it was SOD who brought us up from the Conference :laugh: thanks for that link :thumbsup:
Mal Purchase? Arguably the best thing about that season. We seemed to always have a full squad to choose from every week.
-
With Saunders the plus was the team around him both on and off the pitch - eg JR, Jones, Flynn. Some of that was due to him. He himself was the right personality as manager even if lacking in some of the in game abilities. The trainer he brought in - forget his name - seemed to be a very big part of what was going on. I think he helped create a disciplined backbone and approach to the play.
Really interesting view on the experiment from Keegan, though hadn't realised it was SOD who brought us up from the Conference :laugh: thanks for that link :thumbsup:
Dave Penney brought us up from the Conference didn't he?
-
They lost five on the bounce including our rather fortunate win against them. But those were the only 5 they lost in the last 20 games. They won 14 and drew 1 of the other 15. Best form of the closing section of the season by far.
Shame about that one draw, eh?
I was there Billy and I'm not sure that it was fortunate. We gifted them a late goal courtesy of Jamie McCombe and then had the willpower to go to the other end and score. The only fortunate bit was the Husband tackle that won us the ball near the half way line in the build up. It was a good hard tackle but I expected the ref to blow, as did their guy that lost the ball.
-
No not really, you say why you think he was a good manager. IMHO he wasnt
COYR
You were asked first as to why he isn't a good manager. Answer the man's question.
Okay, he over saw the failed experiment which was poorly handle due to his poor man mangerment skills, something that is essential to all good managers.
He allowed internal conflict to to be rife with a them and us attitude in the team.
He allowed personnel not to train fully
He played players that were not good enough when better players were on the bench or not even in the match day squad.
Personnel were signed and didn’t play, why allow this?
When he played Doncaster Rovers players the following season we saw a vast improvement in standards, but then he jumped ship and moved to Wolves, did nothing there and got sacked. He wasn’t able to turn them around.
Since then he has moved down the league and done absolutely nothing with the teams he went to.
Now you tell me why you think he was a good manager.
Happy now pal
COYR
So we totally ignore the fact that he completely rebuilt the squad in the space of one summer and would've won the league at a canter because he had a tough time in the Championship and got some decisions wrong? He would've likely had little say over who came in and I'd bet there was some hand in saying who had to play as well.
Wolves were a sinking ship in freefall when he took over, which was a daft decision, but he'd have been unambitious if he hadn't taken it on. Chesterfield were setting off up shit creek financially when he went in there and had started selling off their key players, and as we've seen since were a shit show behind the scenes. Crawley looked dead and buried when he went in, got it to the last day of the season and very nearly survived.
And if your "allowed personnel to not train fully" comment is regarding Habib Beye, Bobby Robson used to let Lauren Robert f**k off to Paris and not come back until part way through a week. Not that I'm comparing their abilities but it's a nonsense point.
-
I thought we were first or second when Saunders left, but I could be mistaken
Second.
-
With Saunders the plus was the team around him both on and off the pitch - eg JR, Jones, Flynn. Some of that was due to him. He himself was the right personality as manager even if lacking in some of the in game abilities. The trainer he brought in - forget his name - seemed to be a very big part of what was going on. I think he helped create a disciplined backbone and approach to the play.
Really interesting view on the experiment from Keegan, though hadn't realised it was SOD who brought us up from the Conference :laugh: thanks for that link :thumbsup:
Dave Penney brought us up from the Conference didn't he?
Yeah, Keegan got it wrong.
-
I think with hindsight, every other job in his career since DRFC has shown Saunders to be a poor manager. As well as the amount of nonsense he spouts on TV/radio.
Can't deny that he had a very good half-season with us in 2012. Whether that was down to him, the players he brought in, luck, a temporary burst of genius/inspiration or what, I don't know. I liked him at the time but it's clear that he's a bit of a joke manager now.
As for Keegan, thought he was a decent player for us and a shame he was injured so much. He did everything that people wanted to think Mark Wilson did. Got his foot in and made simple passes.
-
I think with hindsight, every other job in his career since DRFC has shown Saunders to be a poor manager. As well as the amount of nonsense he spouts on TV/radio.
Can't deny that he had a very good half-season with us in 2012. Whether that was down to him, the players he brought in, luck, a temporary burst of genius/inspiration or what, I don't know. I liked him at the time but it's clear that he's a bit of a joke manager now.
As for Keegan, thought he was a decent player for us and a shame he was injured so much. He did everything that people wanted to think Mark Wilson did. Got his foot in and made simple passes.
If you think Keegan and Wilson were decent players it asks a lot of questions about your judgment of Dean Saunders.
-
I think with hindsight, every other job in his career since DRFC has shown Saunders to be a poor manager. As well as the amount of nonsense he spouts on TV/radio.
Can't deny that he had a very good half-season with us in 2012. Whether that was down to him, the players he brought in, luck, a temporary burst of genius/inspiration or what, I don't know. I liked him at the time but it's clear that he's a bit of a joke manager now.
As for Keegan, thought he was a decent player for us and a shame he was injured so much. He did everything that people wanted to think Mark Wilson did. Got his foot in and made simple passes.
If you think Keegan and Wilson were decent players it asks a lot of questions about your judgment of Dean Saunders.
Read it again, I was saying quite the opposite to "Mark Wilson was a decent player"
Keegan, however, was OK. He put in some good performances in the Championship.
I'll let you know if I'm ever arsed what you think about my judgement of anything. 👍
-
I think with hindsight, every other job in his career since DRFC has shown Saunders to be a poor manager. As well as the amount of nonsense he spouts on TV/radio.
Can't deny that he had a very good half-season with us in 2012. Whether that was down to him, the players he brought in, luck, a temporary burst of genius/inspiration or what, I don't know. I liked him at the time but it's clear that he's a bit of a joke manager now.
As for Keegan, thought he was a decent player for us and a shame he was injured so much. He did everything that people wanted to think Mark Wilson did. Got his foot in and made simple passes.
If you think Keegan and Wilson were decent players it asks a lot of questions about your judgment of Dean Saunders.
Read it again, I was saying quite the opposite to "Mark Wilson was a decent player"
Keegan, however, was OK. He put in some good performances in the Championship.
I'll let you know if I'm ever arsed what you think about my judgement of anything. 👍
Fair enough. I did misread what you wrote.