Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Donnywolf on July 24, 2018, 03:57:26 pm
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With the discussion on here still in full flow (70 Pages now) I just wondered what a "straw poll" on the issue would reveal now 2 years on
DFP are running a feature next week in which you can express in 150 words your view. I have tried to capture some of the options they have not - well 2 of them
They have also done a Poll and I saw the results which were interesting and it will be interesting to see if we as a group are in a similar mind
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I never voted because I didn't think it'd happen. I'd definitely vote remain given the opportunity again.
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I know the poll is in early stages but has the results so far surprised anyone?
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I know the poll is in early stages but has the results so far surprised anyone?
Not really, because the national polls suggest that any movement between Leave and Remain is very small. I suspect if you had a re-run tomorrow you might get a small majority for Remain, so that would be unsatisfactory.
Maybe things will change when the final deal is known - especially if the deal is essentially "No Deal."
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I know the poll is in early stages but has the results so far surprised anyone?
surprised me a bit, thought this forum was just a small clique of remoaners.
didn't think there were that many brexiteers on here.
come on guys speak up, and add balance to the continued tripe spouted by the remoaners !!
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Hahaha, continued tripe? rich, coming from you.
Or by 'tripe' do you mean "things that actual experts have said that I don't like"?
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I know the poll is in early stages but has the results so far surprised anyone?
surprised me a bit, thought this forum was just a small clique of remoaners.
didn't think there were that many brexiteers on here.
come on guys speak up, and add balance to the continued tripe spouted by the remoaners !!
Please do, speak up loud and clear, start by explaining any advantages of leaving, like having less money to worry about, don't have to get up too early in the morning cos I don't have a job, must be shed loads more.
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It does suggest that leavers tend not to get involved in this thread for some reason. Perhaps they refuse to accept the inevitable, often abusive attacks from the remoaners who insist the country is doomed because of them.
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often abusive attacks from the remoaners who insist the country is doomed because of them.
I mostly quote financial journalists and excerpts from reliable news sources, It's hard not to have a dig on occasions as it's mostly on open goal.
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Perhaps they read different papers to you!
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It does suggest that leavers tend not to get involved in this thread for some reason. Perhaps they refuse to accept the inevitable, often abusive attacks from the remoaners who insist the country is doomed because of them.
Maybe it's because most Brexiters I've seen don't have an argument beyond "it'll be alright", and it's easier to just ignore the thread and not say owt than actually have your worldview challenged and admit Murdoch, Farage, BoJo and the rest have pulled your pants down.
Top marks for citing "abusive attacks", then 3 words later using the word "remoaner" by the way. That is just great darts.
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Yerrrr but we're British, be reyt waint it. EU will be tripping over thereselves to make a deal.
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It does suggest that leavers tend not to get involved in this thread for some reason. Perhaps they refuse to accept the inevitable, often abusive attacks from the remoaners who insist the country is doomed because of them.
Maybe it's because most Brexiters I've seen don't have an argument beyond "it'll be alright", and it's easier to just ignore the thread and not say owt than actually have your worldview challenged and admit Murdoch, Farage, BoJo and the rest have pulled your pants down.
Top marks for citing "abusive attacks", then 3 words later using the word "remoaner" by the way. That is just great darts.
remoaners have no argument other than 'were doomed!'
no one's still explained how and why they think the average person on the street will be affected.
there are no facts for the benefits of remaining over leaving.
4 facts for the benefit of leaving
1. reclaim British sovereignty, elect a British government to govern Britain (no meddling from the eu)
2. millions per day not handed to the eu, money better spent elsewhere.
3. put the brakes on uncontrolled immigration (we are a small island with limited resources and infrastructure)
4. freedom to strike deals with the rest of the commonwealth and GLOBE.
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It does suggest that leavers tend not to get involved in this thread for some reason. Perhaps they refuse to accept the inevitable, often abusive attacks from the remoaners who insist the country is doomed because of them.
Maybe it's because most Brexiters I've seen don't have an argument beyond "it'll be alright", and it's easier to just ignore the thread and not say owt than actually have your worldview challenged and admit Murdoch, Farage, BoJo and the rest have pulled your pants down.
Top marks for citing "abusive attacks", then 3 words later using the word "remoaner" by the way. That is just great darts.
Haha! You call yourself a remoaner!
Regarding Murdoch and co, I voted remain, so can I accuse the scaremongers who predicted an immediate recession of pulling my pants down?
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Perhaps they read different papers to you!
Maybe they do BB but I learnt long ago that you shouldnt believe all you read and for something as important as this youd have to read more that one wouldnt you think?
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It does suggest that leavers tend not to get involved in this thread for some reason. Perhaps they refuse to accept the inevitable, often abusive attacks from the remoaners who insist the country is doomed because of them.
Maybe it's because most Brexiters I've seen don't have an argument beyond "it'll be alright", and it's easier to just ignore the thread and not say owt than actually have your worldview challenged and admit Murdoch, Farage, BoJo and the rest have pulled your pants down.
Top marks for citing "abusive attacks", then 3 words later using the word "remoaner" by the way. That is just great darts.
remoaners have no argument other than 'were doomed!'
no one's still explained how and why they think the average person on the street will be affected.
You must have overlooked the last 70 or so pages?
there are no facts for the benefits of remaining over leaving.
See above answer.
4 facts for the benefit of leaving
See previous 70 or so pages.
1. reclaim British sovereignty, elect a British government to govern Britain (no meddling from the eu)
Huh.
2. millions per day not handed to the eu, money better spent elsewhere.
Are you channelling Boris?
3. put the brakes on uncontrolled immigration (we are a small island with limited resources and infrastructure)
Were all immigrants.
4. freedom to strike deals with the rest of the commonwealth and GLOBE.
You already have that.
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I'm still remain but I can easily see why people would change their vote from remain to leave. This forum sums it up perfectly, the snotty attitudes of the Remain voters, to the point of patronising.
I've said for a while that the Leave vote would increase in a second referendum though you wouldn't think it from looking at the monotonous pages on Brexit on here or most social media apps. It's called an echo chamber.
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It does suggest that leavers tend not to get involved in this thread for some reason. Perhaps they refuse to accept the inevitable, often abusive attacks from the remoaners who insist the country is doomed because of them.
Maybe it's because most Brexiters I've seen don't have an argument beyond "it'll be alright", and it's easier to just ignore the thread and not say owt than actually have your worldview challenged and admit Murdoch, Farage, BoJo and the rest have pulled your pants down.
Top marks for citing "abusive attacks", then 3 words later using the word "remoaner" by the way. That is just great darts.
remoaners have no argument other than 'were doomed!'
no one's still explained how and why they think the average person on the street will be affected.
there are no facts for the benefits of remaining over leaving.
4 facts for the benefit of leaving
1. reclaim British sovereignty, elect a British government to govern Britain (no meddling from the eu)
2. millions per day not handed to the eu, money better spent elsewhere.
3. put the brakes on uncontrolled immigration (we are a small island with limited resources and infrastructure)
4. freedom to strike deals with the rest of the commonwealth and GLOBE.
Thank you for at least responding in more detail than "it'll be alright". However:
1. We're already sovereign, we already make many of our own laws, and most of the laws that are "forced" on us by the EU are in part written and ratified by us. I'm not sure a dodgy referendum that broke our own election laws and which has proven links to foreign money and influence is reclaiming sovereignty in any way.
2. We do send a lot of money to the EU, however in terms of our national budget, what we send is a pittance. The money we get back in trade deals, labour, EU subsidies, and so on dwarfs that by some way. Just look at Donny - the new bypass, Cast theatre, and so on.
3. We already have control over immigration. I've linked to this several times before, but here's the EU's law on the subject. Short version is we can kick out anyone who's deemed to be a "burden on the state" after 3 months. What does it mean to be a "burden"? That's up to us!
Directive 2004/38/EC introduces EU citizenship as the basic status for nationals of the Member States when they exercise their right to move and reside freely in EU territory. For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside in the territory of another EU country with no conditions or formalities other than the requirement to hold a valid identity card or passport. For longer periods, the host Member State may require a citizen to register his or her presence within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.
Migrant workers’ right to reside for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions, which vary depending on the citizen’s status: for EU citizens who are not workers or self-employed, the right of residence depends on their having sufficient resources not to become a burden on the host Member State’s social assistance system, and having sickness insurance. EU citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a period of five years of uninterrupted legal residence.
Source: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/41/free-movement-of-workers
Also EU migrants are a net benefit to the economy anyway and put in more than they take out, although exactly how much this is varies depending on how you spin it.
https://fullfact.org/immigration/do-eu-immigrants-contribute-134-every-1-they-receive/
4. We already have freedom to strike trade deals as part of the EU. All EU countries do. Germany sells shitloads of cars to China. Not long back we agreed to make a bunch of fighter jets for the Saudis. We ship whelks to Korea. Putting a huge trade barrier between us and our closest market - which is one of the largest economies in the world - so we can sell British beef to Australia (which we already can do if we want) seems daft to me.
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It does suggest that leavers tend not to get involved in this thread for some reason. Perhaps they refuse to accept the inevitable, often abusive attacks from the remoaners who insist the country is doomed because of them.
Maybe it's because most Brexiters I've seen don't have an argument beyond "it'll be alright", and it's easier to just ignore the thread and not say owt than actually have your worldview challenged and admit Murdoch, Farage, BoJo and the rest have pulled your pants down.
Top marks for citing "abusive attacks", then 3 words later using the word "remoaner" by the way. That is just great darts.
Haha! You call yourself a remoaner!
Regarding Murdoch and co, I voted remain, so can I accuse the scaremongers who predicted an immediate recession of pulling my pants down?
No, because we did have a dip in economic performance in line with what the experts expected, but the rising tide of the global economy meant we merely stagnated rather than nosedived into a recession. That "scaremongering" (which has largely come true) doesn't compare to the laundry list of shady stuff that the Leave campaign have been found to have pulled.
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Give it up MM. I’ve pointed out the numbers to B.B. times without end and he won’t have it.
He doesn’t see a decline in our GDP growth of more than 2% relative to our competitors [1] since the Vote as validating the predictions of the vast majority of economists that Brexit would be a Very Bad Thing.
[1] Roughly speaking, our GDP growth rate has gone down by about 1% while most of our competitors' has gone up by more than 1%. All other things being equal, we'd have expected our GDP growth rate to have risen by something like the amount that our competitors' has. So, all other things being equal, we'd expect to have ridden this mini boom like the USA, France, Italy, Germany, Japan, Canada etc have done over the past 18-24 months and for our GDP growth rate to be about 3%. Instead, it's about 1%. Because all things are NOT equal. There's something very big that has only affected the UK over the past 2 years.
So, we lost 2% of GDP in 2016-17. That meant we started 2017/18 with an economy already 2% smaller than it should have been. And then we lost 2% of growth in 2017/18. So, (forgive me Dutch, I'm playing fast and loose with compound values) we've lost the equivalent of about 6% of our annual economic output. Which is about £120billion. That's wealth that we as a country have already lost as a direct result of the vote. That's already the equivalent of SIX YEARS worth of the £350m/week figure, which was a lie in any case. It's more like 12 years worth of our actual net contribution to the EU.
By the way, the long term predictions of the BEST case scenario for Brexit are that we would see a 2% hit to GDP. That would mean that we'd lose ~£40bn of wealth every year. The Brexiters tell us that we could make that up by increasing exports to non-EU countries. Well yes. We could. The value of our exports to the Rest of the World is about £180bn per year, and a bit more than that to the EU. So we COULD make up £20bn per year of lost growth. By:
-maintaining our exports to the EU (won't happen because we are leaving the SM and CU)
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-increasing our exports to the rest of the world by 20% per year...without spending a penny on actually producing the exports, or
-increasing our exports to the rest of the world by 40% per year and make 100% profit on everything.
It's truly fairytale economics. Which is why no respected economist things there is any chance of us leaving in any way that doesn't make us poorer. The only leading economist who says that we could do this in the long run, says that the way to do that is to abolish import tariffs. But he also acknowledges that this would lead to the end of the entire manufacturing sector in the UK. And he says that's OK, because you would just "manage the decline" of the industrial areas (read: "encourage" everyone in Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester, Yorkshire etc to move down South). He also says that it's OK because there will always be jobs for people without high-level education or technical ability. Which is true of course. People who lose their jobs in manufacturing can always get jobs as road sweepers or barristas or supermarket security guard. That's what he means.
Boomstick, before reverting back to his default state of making childish insults, was asking how Brexit would affect the ordinary person. It's there in those numbers. We are going to be poorer as a country. That's inevitable. So how does he think we pay for our hospitals? Our schools? Our roads and railways? The Treasury has already massively extended the duration of formal Austerity (read: under-investment in public services) because of the hit that Brexit has already had on the economy. It's happening. Now.
THAT is how it's going to hit the ordinary person. Not a sudden smack in the face but a slow and inexorable erosion of the funding for the things that underpin society. That's what you've voted for. That's what is already happening and what will continue to happen way off into the 2020s.
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BST, why do you tell MM to give it up but then continue with your own mission?
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I know the poll is in early stages but has the results so far surprised anyone?
Not really, because the national polls suggest that any movement between Leave and Remain is very small. I suspect if you had a re-run tomorrow you might get a small majority for Remain, so that would be unsatisfactory.
Maybe things will change when the final deal is known - especially if the deal is essentially "No Deal."
Really ? So far 24 Remain and 20 Leave
54.5 % Remain
45.5 % Leave
Bearing in mind this is a heavy Leave area that is quite telling ; that's a 9% differential, those that didn't vote last time are probably more likely to not make the assumption that Remain would win easily this time !
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It's irrelevant really if you voted the same as last time hoola the interesting ones are the 3 who didn't vote last time and the 4 that Would change there vote to yes
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BST, why do you tell MM to give it up but then continue with your own mission?
I was giving him information for future discussions with people who might actually be prepared to engage with facts rather than just delight in being a smart arse.
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BST, why do you tell MM to give it up but then continue with your own mission?
probably for the same reason he wrongly accuses someone else of childish insults, when it's him that spouts them.
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BST, why do you tell MM to give it up but then continue with your own mission?
I was giving him information for future discussions with people who might actually be prepared to engage with facts rather than just delight in being a smart arse.
And do you think your voice of patronising superiority will convince people to change their mind? or maybe the more obnoxious among you who think trading insults will swing opinion in your favour?
I reckon there's more chance of reasonably minded remainers (like me) swapping sides.
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BST, why do you tell MM to give it up but then continue with your own mission?
I was giving him information for future discussions with people who might actually be prepared to engage with facts rather than just delight in being a smart arse.
And do you think your voice of patronising superiority will convince people to change their mind? or maybe the more obnoxious among you who think trading insults will swing opinion in your favour?
I reckon there's more chance of reasonably minded remainers (like me) swapping sides.
he likes to bask in his self superiority on here, where he can bully and patronize whomever disagrees with him.
if he engaged in any meaningful political discussion in the real world, with people with real political clout. he would get annihilated.
hence why he spends so long on here.
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It won't. I enjoy listening to James O'Brien debunking stuff but I'm under no illusion that he's exactly the kind of person that led to Brexit in the first place. The smug idea of superiority about which economists have said what, when in reality they're pissing in the wind as much as the next man.
It is worrying that the nation trusts a man like Nigel Farage over the the 'experts but the reality is he did a far better job of pinpointing how shit it is at the bottom rung and exploiting it than any of the Remain camp did. Vacant promises maybe but at least an understanding.
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Strewth, I agree with B.B. Make that five.
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It does suggest that leavers tend not to get involved in this thread for some reason. Perhaps they refuse to accept the inevitable, often abusive attacks from the remoaners who insist the country is doomed because of them.
Bremoaning again BB , oh my mates dont want bullying on here - Benrley this shite is unfolding I'm watching the Select committee for leaving the EU on Parliament......it's a booking mess !
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This a heavy Leave area and no-one needs to leave their name so why broomstick, BB .....would they be savaged by " Remoaners " . Believe me " Leavers " you aren't like ' buccaneers ' voting for an adventurous future - we are all going down the drain if this continues.
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If you was a brexiteer all they have to do is organise pop concerts on all over the country on the day of the vote, remember Glastonbury.
Hoola you could have gone to the friendly tonight to get depressed.
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Hoola / BST,
Prior to brexit I used to enjoy your postings and found them balance, amusing and interesting.
Im now sick to f**king death of your incessant patronising holier than though b*llocks on this and so many other threads where it gets dragged off topic into a brexit direction.
You’re assumption that anyone who doesn’t agree with you is a numpty/fool or other derogatory term is counter productive as has been pointed out by others.
I am strongly behind the leave decision for a number of reasons that make sense to me but which I don’t feel the need to post for people like you to try and pick through and give your spin.
I suspect that there are a great deal more like me who feel the same.
We’re all entitled to our opinions but we don’t have to explain them, defend them or debate them if we don’t want to - so lay off the patronising attitude to anyone ( even those you’ve never met or spoken to) who doesn’t agree with your views.
Rant over and no desire to enter into debate.
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Stockton
For the record, I have a lot of time for anyone who enters into a discussion on a topic. I’m sorry if presenting facts comes across as holier than thou, but there you go.
I could show you a dozen times that I’ve set out facts to address BB’s comment about the lack of a recession after the vote. I’ve done it respectfull and genuinely and never once had anything back but wisecracks.
Then you have Boomstick. Who regularly uses silly insukts in his posts. And yes I DID go over the top in responding to him. And I apologised publicly. And then he comes back using the same silly insults.
Those attitudes are ok? But me setting out facts is patronising b*llocks? Strange Times we’re living in.
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BST, far cleverer people than me have reiterated time and time again that there was scaremongering about an immediate recession if there was a leave vote. There was no immediate recession as far as they are concerned, and that's good enough for me. For whatever reason there wasn't one, isn't the point. The point is the prediction of an immediate recession was wrong.
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If taking the trouble to explain repeatedly, with indisputable fact and searingly clear logic why breaking from the EU will be a disaster for us is your idea of patronising then how about you try to explain with equally indisputable facts and clear logic why you think leaving would be better. Perhaps then the debate could take on a tone more agreeable to you.
In all of these 70 pages I can only remember one Leave voter who has gone to the trouble of explaining his reason for voting to leave (Idler if I recall, because he didn't like the direction toward a federation he believed the Union was moving). Fair enough, somebody with a thought out and reasoned explanation. If there have been others then I can only say they didn't make a convincing case as I really don't remember any of them. All I hear from the leave brigade is carping about being patronised instead of taking up the debate and making a convincing counter argument to support voting leave.
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BB
As I’ve patiently explained a dozen times, our GDP growth dropped immediately by 1% after the vote. While the rest of the world was going through an unexpected boom and having GDP growth rates going up by more than 1%. It’s clear that, relative to the rest of the world, our growth rate shrank by 2% or more. Which, had we not been buoyed by the global mini boom, would have put us into official recession.
It’s perfectly clear and unarguable. We’ve lost a huge amount of wealth directly because of the vote. The fact that this has not resulted in a formal recession is totally secondary. Ignoring the facts of what has actually happened and focussing on the semantics of a word is over such a hugely important issue is, to me, a strange stance to take.
Hopefully that won’t come across as holier than thou patronising b*llocks.
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I think there were two more pies; aidanstu who wanted government support for the steel industry and darrenw who was disenchanted with the state of the country, so fair play to them too (will those posters excuse me if I have quoted them incorrectly).
I dont have anything more to say other than what has already been said. Wes and pies make some good points, much of the rest is rambling and ranting over the same old ground, except to keep repeating we can't go back to June 2016. There's no time machine. It's fairly clear no deal is economic and social madness (what colour should the new ration books be?) but so would trying to turn the clock back. In a poll at the weekend 38% of people said they would support a new far-right party, 38%!! You think it can't get worse, oh yes it can.
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Genuine question here to those who think the Remoaners are patronising are holier than thou and all the rest. How ARE we supposed to make our argument?
If someone constantly repeats something that's objectively false - such as, say, that we had no control over immigration from the EU - how should we challenge that point without being patronising? How else can you deconstruct someone's argument other than laying out facts, based on evidence, logic, and expert studies? How should we respond when someone keeps repeating things that aren't true? If someone tells you that the sky is green and grass is blue, do you just sit there and let them repeat it over and over without challenging it because everyone's entitled to an opinion?
These are all genuine questions, I'm not trying to be sarcastic even with that last one, just using a metaphor to get my point across.
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Excellent post MM. You put it far better than I have done, and far less confrontationally.
And THIS is why it matters.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44959300
Read that. Stop and thing what is going on in politics across the world. Stop and think about Trump saying tonight “What you are reading and hearing is not what is happening.” And if everyone is not at least a tiny bit nervous about the implication of that, the implications being that criticism is always false and facts are pliable to suit your aims, then I really do fear for where we are heading.
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I'm still remain but I can easily see why people would change their vote from remain to leave. This forum sums it up perfectly, the snotty attitudes of the Remain voters, to the point of patronising.
I've said for a while that the Leave vote would increase in a second referendum though you wouldn't think it from looking at the monotonous pages on Brexit on here or most social media apps. It's called an echo chamber.
Don't be daft Wes this all started with a gobshite called Farage and his mates from the Alt Right . The gobbing off continued from thereonin. Rich blokes with their hedge funds to protect, outside agents from Russia shoving loads of cash at them to destroy Europe with a view to benefit both Putin and Trump in the medium to long term . Guess what it worked .
Separating us off as a nuclear power and pivot between France and Germany then left the whole of Europe at their mercy.
Who suffers the poor , the weak , the disabled from the lies they have been spouting ? If pointing all that and more out is patronising then what were people supposed to do . You know the ones labelled " moaners " from the very start Wes ? It's not patronising to try and point your position out especially on such an important subject. Project Fear will soon begin - do you think we enjoy pointing that out WE SUFFER AS WELL !!
" Remoaners " ffs people get a grip , we were for once in a century actually BENEFITTING from EU Re - Development funds in this region . Money that for generations had been raised here for the Exchequer had gone to London and the South- West - we NEVER got our share back ever. Our infrastructure crumbled, factories and mines closed and guess what - decades long imbalances were starting to be re- addressed .
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If you was a brexiteer all they have to do is organise pop concerts on all over the country on the day of the vote, remember Glastonbury.
Hoola you could have gone to the friendly tonight to get depressed.
I'm not depressed - I'm angry that our politicians have let our people down .
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BST, far cleverer people than me have reiterated time and time again that there was scaremongering about an immediate recession if there was a leave vote. There was no immediate recession as far as they are concerned, and that's good enough for me. For whatever reason there wasn't one, isn't the point. The point is the prediction of an immediate recession was wrong.
Tell that to our people who live abroad and here that travel . What was once a £1000 to them is now only £800 Just because the £ has devalued - holidays are dearer, rates of exchange are weaker, companies are starting to pull out or no re- investing and we haven't even left yet . That's not patronising bollox that's factual .
Stockton nobody has been patronising , must admit I don't like the " Remoaner " label either but I don't whinge about it . If you don't want to enter the debate that's your choice entirely , shame you don't want to see what the " moaners and unpatriotic " half of the population have to say but that's how entrenched some are on both sides. I'm sorry if I have upset you in any way by discussing with like- minded people OFF- TOPIC the future well being of our country .
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Looking forward to my rationing book.
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Looking forward to my rationing book.
Will it be blue though?
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BST, far cleverer people than me have reiterated time and time again that there was scaremongering about an immediate recession if there was a leave vote. There was no immediate recession as far as they are concerned, and that's good enough for me. For whatever reason there wasn't one, isn't the point. The point is the prediction of an immediate recession was wrong.
Heres some light reading for those that doubt what Brexit will bring:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-800-worse-off-households-food-poverty-inflation-a8064286.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/poverty-britain-joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-theresa-may-social-mobility-commission-million-a8089491.html
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/04/britain-society-inequality-trade-brexit-is-not-the-way
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/18/brexiters-vote-poverty-even-worse-than-austerity
https://money.cnn.com/2017/03/02/news/economy/child-poverty-brexit-uk/index.html
https://www.cer.eu/publications/archive/policy-brief/2016/brexit-britain-poor-man-western-europe
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Looking forward to my rationing book.
Who says you are getting one ? It's the old and wisest at the front of the queue ;)
Cue the patronising complaints - I'm only joking hence the............ ;)
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BST, far cleverer people than me have reiterated time and time again that there was scaremongering about an immediate recession if there was a leave vote. There was no immediate recession as far as they are concerned, and that's good enough for me. For whatever reason there wasn't one, isn't the point. The point is the prediction of an immediate recession was wrong.
Heres some light reading for those that doubt what Brexit will bring:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-800-worse-off-households-food-poverty-inflation-a8064286.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/poverty-britain-joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-theresa-may-social-mobility-commission-million-a8089491.html
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/04/britain-society-inequality-trade-brexit-is-not-the-way
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/18/brexiters-vote-poverty-even-worse-than-austerity
https://money.cnn.com/2017/03/02/news/economy/child-poverty-brexit-uk/index.html
https://www.cer.eu/publications/archive/policy-brief/2016/brexit-britain-poor-man-western-europe
FAKE NEWS the lot of it Sydney - none of it comes from The Mail/ Express/Sun.
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Petrol rationing books were issued during the 1973 oil crisis.
They were never needed.
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BST, far cleverer people than me have reiterated time and time again that there was scaremongering about an immediate recession if there was a leave vote. There was no immediate recession as far as they are concerned, and that's good enough for me. For whatever reason there wasn't one, isn't the point. The point is the prediction of an immediate recession was wrong.
Heres some light reading for those that doubt what Brexit will bring:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-800-worse-off-households-food-poverty-inflation-a8064286.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/poverty-britain-joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-theresa-may-social-mobility-commission-million-a8089491.html
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/04/britain-society-inequality-trade-brexit-is-not-the-way
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/18/brexiters-vote-poverty-even-worse-than-austerity
https://money.cnn.com/2017/03/02/news/economy/child-poverty-brexit-uk/index.html
https://www.cer.eu/publications/archive/policy-brief/2016/brexit-britain-poor-man-western-europe
FAKE NEWS the lot of it Sydney - none of it comes from The Mail/ Express/Sun.
I apologise for my omissions:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5782504/money-key-brexit-trade-deal/
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/794812/Brexit-news-trade-expert-UK-better-off-leaving-EU-joining-NAFTA
https://www.vox.com/2016/6/21/11974600/brexit-eu-euro-disaster
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3808814/Britain-better-EU-Brexit-says-Germany-business-chief.html
Feel the warm.
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Petrol rationing books were issued during the 1973 oil crisis.
They were never needed.
No, the price of petrol just went up about 35-40% instead.
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Hoola / BST,
Prior to brexit I used to enjoy your postings and found them balance, amusing and interesting.
Im now sick to f**king death of your incessant patronising holier than though b*llocks on this and so many other threads where it gets dragged off topic into a brexit direction.
You’re assumption that anyone who doesn’t agree with you is a numpty/fool or other derogatory term is counter productive as has been pointed out by others.
I am strongly behind the leave decision for a number of reasons that make sense to me but which I don’t feel the need to post for people like you to try and pick through and give your spin.
I suspect that there are a great deal more like me who feel the same.
We’re all entitled to our opinions but we don’t have to explain them, defend them or debate them if we don’t want to - so lay off the patronising attitude to anyone ( even those you’ve never met or spoken to) who doesn’t agree with your views.
Rant over and no desire to enter into debate.
hear hear !
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Stockton
For the record, I have a lot of time for anyone who enters into a discussion on a topic. I’m sorry if presenting facts comes across as holier than thou, but there you go.
I could show you a dozen times that I’ve set out facts to address BB’s comment about the lack of a recession after the vote. I’ve done it respectfull and genuinely and never once had anything back but wisecracks.
Then you have Boomstick. Who regularly uses silly insukts in his posts. And yes I DID go over the top in responding to him. And I apologised publicly. And then he comes back using the same silly insults.
Those attitudes are ok? But me setting out facts is patronising b*llocks? Strange Times we’re living in.
What insults ? the only one who throws them is you.
you even apologised for it, but then continue with your bullying tactics from the safety of your keyboard .
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Boomstick
You use the term “Remoaner” in pretty much every post. It’s petty, snide, childish and indicates that you’ve no intention of engaging in discussion.
I’ve pointed this out numerous occasions. You’ve never changed. You (rightly) complained about me using an insult. I apologised immediately and stopped.
Draw your own conclusions.
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A few years ago I went to have a look at Gibralta for the first time and spent a day mooching around, I think of that day when I think of Britain post Brexit, sort of back to the sixties really, bad food and bad service.
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A few years ago I went to have a look at Gibralta for the first time and spent a day mooching around, I think of that day when I think of Britain post Brexit, sort of back to the sixties really, bad food and bad service.
Surely I won't have to lose my local Italian Restaurant...?!
Bloody Cameron should never have had this referendum!
;)
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BST, far cleverer people than me have reiterated time and time again that there was scaremongering about an immediate recession if there was a leave vote. There was no immediate recession as far as they are concerned, and that's good enough for me. For whatever reason there wasn't one, isn't the point. The point is the prediction of an immediate recession was wrong.
Heres some light reading for those that doubt what Brexit will bring:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-800-worse-off-households-food-poverty-inflation-a8064286.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/poverty-britain-joseph-rowntree-foundation-report-theresa-may-social-mobility-commission-million-a8089491.html
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/04/britain-society-inequality-trade-brexit-is-not-the-way
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/18/brexiters-vote-poverty-even-worse-than-austerity
https://money.cnn.com/2017/03/02/news/economy/child-poverty-brexit-uk/index.html
https://www.cer.eu/publications/archive/policy-brief/2016/brexit-britain-poor-man-western-europe
FAKE NEWS the lot of it Sydney - none of it comes from The Mail/ Express/Sun.
I apologise for my omissions:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5782504/money-key-brexit-trade-deal/
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/794812/Brexit-news-trade-expert-UK-better-off-leaving-EU-joining-NAFTA
https://www.vox.com/2016/6/21/11974600/brexit-eu-euro-disaster
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3808814/Britain-better-EU-Brexit-says-Germany-business-chief.html
Feel the warm.
Haha great patronising- fake news at its very best . Soon be bigger than the Eu . Lol
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A few years ago I went to have a look at Gibralta for the first time and spent a day mooching around, I think of that day when I think of Britain post Brexit, sort of back to the sixties really, bad food and bad service.
Surely I won't have to lose my local Italian Restaurant...?!
Bloody Cameron should never have had this referendum!
;)
For me it would be my local tapas restaurant.
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Every single conversation I've had with anyone who voted for Brexit, the issue always came back to immigration. No matter how anyone tries to sugar coat it, that was the hot-topic at the time and that is exactly what Farage et al played off. Some of the concerns I've heard were legitimate; a friend of mine was dealing with a lot of trouble, in his council job, caused by the Romanian immigrants in Donny, and he saw the damage the minority were doing do the existing communities, so when remain politicians failed to address these issues, or denied they were happening, it made people like him very mad.
Obviously since the referendum we've heard how this sort of immigration will continue from existing EU countries even after Brexit, so my friend in this particular example was actually lied to. And those pesky politicians get away with it!
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I agree with most of that but is it Farage's fault that it will continue after Brexit? Didn't he want an Australian style immigrant selection process?
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I agree with most of that but is it Farage's fault that it will continue after Brexit? Didn't he want an Australian style immigrant selection process?
Didn't he also say 80 million Turks were queuing up to enter Britain?
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I agree with most of that but is it Farage's fault that it will continue after Brexit? Didn't he want an Australian style immigrant selection process?
He did but I personally wouldn't agree with that system anyway. Many of the argument against immigration from EU countries were either fabricated or made out to be worse than they are. The argument was made that immigration is the cause of no jobs, too many kids in schools, immigrants flooding our hospitals, immigrants all claiming maximum benefits etc etc, when all of it is bullsh*t. There are obviously problems in certains parts of the country, but that should and can be handled by local councils and local policies customised to the needs of the local economy i.e. just because we had a problem with Romanian immigrants in Doncaster does not mean we should kick out all romanians from the entire country!
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Did Farage want all immigrants out or just the problem ones?
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Who knows what he was wanting when he unveiled this poster?
(https://res.cloudinary.com/dods/image/upload/c_fill,g_center,h_500,w_1120/v1/UK%20politicians/nigel_f_vndn8u_uvhsxa.jpg)
Whatever it was, there was no mention of immigration selection processes. By which I mean that it wasn't a poster that was designed to encourage a sensible debate on the pros and cons of immigration, was it?
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Wasn't that his vision of what would happen in a few years with the common asylum policy?
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I’ve no idea. You tell me. I don’t really set much store by the predictions and comments that Farage made during the campaign.
He campaigned on the “fact” that we pay £350m/week to the EU. We don’t.
He predicted that 80 million Turks would get the right to move to the U.K. They won’t.
He said that we should look at Norway as an example of a successful country outside the EU. Ignoring the fact that they are in the SM and accept freedom of movement.
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Currently running :-
Remain..........32
Leave ............24
Surprising me so far, however those that have either changed their mind or are minded to vote this time virtually cancel each other out . Despite the way Brexit is going seems locally many would still ìbe happy with a potential cliff edge.
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Using the logical assumption that this poll is based on readers of this thread only, it suggests so far, despite the posts being largely in support of remaining, their efforts have failed to prevent two and a half times more people changing their mind in favour of leaving than have gone in favour of remaining.
It seems the outcome is greatly dependent on the new voters to make up the deficit.
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A point on the Australian solution to immigration.
The lnp government is a coalition of right wing liberals and further the right National party.
The lnp is wholeheartedly supported by the majority of the media which is centre right or right wing and mostly Murdoch owned.
Deaths at sea is used by the lnp as an excuse to stop the boats when really its dog whistling to the many racists that hide behind this policy. Labor voters would prefer not to torture people in off shore concetration camps and are in a moral dilemma over this issue. Labor cannot now be seen to be weak (or dont have the guts) as they know if they opt to make this an election issue they will be crucified by the media and lose. Media diversity is a massive problem in Australia and the lnp relaxed the laws about media concentration last year knowing that this will benefit them as seen today as an entertainment company launched a takeover for an established news company which will see it obliterated in a mountain of clickbait.
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Surprised more people would switch to Leave over Remain.
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I dont think they have?
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In the poll. 5 would switch Remain > Leave. Only 3 would switch Leave > Remain.
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I voted leave.
I voted leave to leave, not to remain in, in a watered down membership.
What is there not to understand? If I say I am leaving the house, I leave. I do not go out but say I may just stay in a little bit.
May is a traitor as well as being useless. Sack her off and get Rees Mogg in for a no deal Brexit.
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If I say I am leaving the house, I leave. I do not go out but say I may just stay in a little bit.
When do you leave? Where are you going? How do you get there? Walking? Driving? Bus? How are you getting back? What will you wear? Are you getting food out or having tea at home? Are you going alone or not? What's the weather like, do you need a coat?
That metaphor is actually perfect because, just like Brexit, there are a million and one possibilities that you can take from "leaving the house". It's far too vague a statement to be summed up with a yes or no answer. Before you leave the house, you know where you're going and what you're doing. Brexit is like leaving the house because you've been told there's free beer at the pub, only to get there and find the prices have been hiked and there's a fiver door fee now as well. And they only serve Carling.
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And they only serve Carling? Maybe they admired the way he wound up folk on here.
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If I say I am leaving the house, I leave. I do not go out but say I may just stay in a little bit.
When do you leave? Where are you going? How do you get there? Walking? Driving? Bus? How are you getting back? What will you wear? Are you getting food out or having tea at home? Are you going alone or not? What's the weather like, do you need a coat?
That metaphor is actually perfect because, just like Brexit, there are a million and one possibilities that you can take from "leaving the house". It's far too vague a statement to be summed up with a yes or no answer. Before you leave the house, you know where you're going and what you're doing. Brexit is like leaving the house because you've been told there's free beer at the pub, only to get there and find the prices have been hiked and there's a fiver door fee now as well. And they only serve Carling.
The question was leave or remain. Leave won, so the anti-democracy remainiacs need to get over it, shut up and deal with it. Out is out!
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If I say I am leaving the house, I leave. I do not go out but say I may just stay in a little bit.
When do you leave? Where are you going? How do you get there? Walking? Driving? Bus? How are you getting back? What will you wear? Are you getting food out or having tea at home? Are you going alone or not? What's the weather like, do you need a coat?
That metaphor is actually perfect because, just like Brexit, there are a million and one possibilities that you can take from "leaving the house". It's far too vague a statement to be summed up with a yes or no answer. Before you leave the house, you know where you're going and what you're doing. Brexit is like leaving the house because you've been told there's free beer at the pub, only to get there and find the prices have been hiked and there's a fiver door fee now as well. And they only serve Carling.
The question was leave or remain. Leave won, so the anti-democracy remainiacs need to get over it, shut up and deal with it. Out is out!
Remainiacs! I like that one. Marks for originality at least. I think what is more anti-democracy is bending over for Russia, offshore millionaires, and rich Tory politicians who want to become PM, and selling out your country just so you can thumb your nose at people and go "ner ner, we won, you lost, get over it". Swings and roundabouts innit.
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https://youtu.be/O_pUgkECn9s
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If I say I am leaving the house, I leave. I do not go out but say I may just stay in a little bit.
When do you leave? Where are you going? How do you get there? Walking? Driving? Bus? How are you getting back? What will you wear? Are you getting food out or having tea at home? Are you going alone or not? What's the weather like, do you need a coat?
That metaphor is actually perfect because, just like Brexit, there are a million and one possibilities that you can take from "leaving the house". It's far too vague a statement to be summed up with a yes or no answer. Before you leave the house, you know where you're going and what you're doing. Brexit is like leaving the house because you've been told there's free beer at the pub, only to get there and find the prices have been hiked and there's a fiver door fee now as well. And they only serve Carling.
The question was leave or remain. Leave won, so the anti-democracy remainiacs need to get over it, shut up and deal with it. Out is out!
But there's different kind of outs we can take.
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If I say I am leaving the house, I leave. I do not go out but say I may just stay in a little bit.
When do you leave? Where are you going? How do you get there? Walking? Driving? Bus? How are you getting back? What will you wear? Are you getting food out or having tea at home? Are you going alone or not? What's the weather like, do you need a coat?
Do you go out the back door or out the front door?
Do you walk straight down the path or stop and shit in your neighbour's hedge?
Do you go to work at the market that you've always worked at, or get waylaid and inadvertently destroy £120bn your wealth on the way?
Loads of ways you can leave the house Axholm.
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If I say I am leaving the house, I leave. I do not go out but say I may just stay in a little bit.
When do you leave? Where are you going? How do you get there? Walking? Driving? Bus? How are you getting back? What will you wear? Are you getting food out or having tea at home? Are you going alone or not? What's the weather like, do you need a coat?
That metaphor is actually perfect because, just like Brexit, there are a million and one possibilities that you can take from "leaving the house". It's far too vague a statement to be summed up with a yes or no answer. Before you leave the house, you know where you're going and what you're doing. Brexit is like leaving the house because you've been told there's free beer at the pub, only to get there and find the prices have been hiked and there's a fiver door fee now as well. And they only serve Carling.
The question was leave or remain. Leave won, so the anti-democracy remainiacs need to get over it, shut up and deal with it. Out is out!
But don't you understand that it was a binary question to a multipoint issue. A simple Yes/No was silly in the extreme.
As MM has said, there are multiple ways of leaving the EU, several of these were put forward by the various Leave organisations prior to the electio - The Norwegian Model, the Swiss Model, the Hard Break model, etc etc. Which Leave did you vote for? and do you honestly think that everyone who voted Leave voted for the same kind of leave you did? Heck, I even know people who voted leave simply as a protest vote in the firm belief that Remain would win anyway!
And if it's as simple as you appear to suggest then why are we two years down the line with no agreement?
Let's take your Going Out analogy to it's logical conclusion... are you simpy suggesting that we walk away from the EU, close the door, stop trading with them? Stop interchanging security information with them? Stop all joint ventures with them? implement a hard border between Northern and Southern Ireland? Because that's what your Going Out analogy means.
The whole thing is an ill thought out mess, and it isn't Teresa May's fault, why do you think there hasn't been a leadership challenge in the Tory Party? Those idiots like Mogg and Johnson don't have solutions either and they clearly don't want their reputations tarnishing by picking up this poisoned chalice! Far easier for them to say, when it's all gone wrong, "we would have done it differently"
Oh, and it's not up to us Remainers to 'deal with it', that's down you Wrexiteers to to come up with the solutions to 'deal with it', after all, you voted for it!
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Let me give my honest the opinion as a remoaning remaniac.....
You Brexiteers have been hoodwinked by Farage and a few far right self serving already rich Tory MPs like Rees-Mogg and his hedge funds. NONE of their wild promises will come true.
There are NO benefits and loads of negatives in leaving the EU especially for most of us ie the Northern working class.
Do you think that the London fixated Tory Government would have made the money available for all the developments in Donny and other places up here?
Nope it's all EU funding. Look around you ffs.
All I hear from Brexiteers is stupid sabre rattling nationalistic nonsense. Can practically hear them humming Land of Hope and Glory.
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I voted leave.
I voted leave to leave, not to remain in, in a watered down membership.
What is there not to understand? If I say I am leaving the house, I leave. I do not go out but say I may just stay in a little bit.
May is a traitor as well as being useless. Sack her off and get Rees Mogg in for a no deal Brexit.
Ok you get outside and realise it's pissing it down and you've only got a t shirt on what do you do in your oh so simplified world - do you think hmm might need to go home and put a jacket on, even stay in or rather look like a drenched tit in the pub ?
I know what sensible people do and it's not what you do .
Ffs Axholme that metaphor is shite like Brexit.
Oh and this " Brexiteer " terminology was picked out very deliberately in the early days to make some mugs sound and feel like glorious musketeers " all for one and one for all "- perhaps even buccaneers. All very romantic rather than being a Remoaner eh ?
Personally I prefer principals......
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If I say I am leaving the house, I leave. I do not go out but say I may just stay in a little bit.
When do you leave? Where are you going? How do you get there? Walking? Driving? Bus? How are you getting back? What will you wear? Are you getting food out or having tea at home? Are you going alone or not? What's the weather like, do you need a coat?
That metaphor is actually perfect because, just like Brexit, there are a million and one possibilities that you can take from "leaving the house". It's far too vague a statement to be summed up with a yes or no answer. Before you leave the house, you know where you're going and what you're doing. Brexit is like leaving the house because you've been told there's free beer at the pub, only to get there and find the prices have been hiked and there's a fiver door fee now as well. And they only serve Carling.
The question was leave or remain. Leave won, so the anti-democracy remainiacs need to get over it, shut up and deal with it. Out is out!
So having a General Election two years after the previous one is democratic, but having an referendum more than two years after the last is anti-democratic!
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Who knows what he was wanting when he unveiled this poster?
(https://res.cloudinary.com/dods/image/upload/c_fill,g_center,h_500,w_1120/v1/UK%20politicians/nigel_f_vndn8u_uvhsxa.jpg)
Whatever it was, there was no mention of immigration selection processes. By which I mean that it wasn't a poster that was designed to encourage a sensible debate on the pros and cons of immigration, was it?
Scroll down the Facebook ads and you will find our new border soon will be with Syria - ( notwithstanding that we aren't even in Schengen ) but that the populations of not only Turkey but also Serbia, Albania, North Macedonia and Montenegro will be arriving for not only jobs but also treatment on the NHS imminently.
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So let me get this right, you are all happy with being told what to do by the unelected likes of Junker and his henchmen, banks and international big business. I'd rather throw in my lot with Russia.
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So let me get this right, you are all happy with being told what to do by the unelected likes of Junker and his henchmen, banks and international big business. I'd rather throw in my lot with Russia.
I presume from this this that you are hppy to believe the lies you read in the Dail Mail? You clearly have no understanding of how the EU works.
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So let me get this right, you are all happy with being told what to do by the unelected likes of Junker and his henchmen, banks and international big business. I'd rather throw in my lot with Russia.
We get to tell them what to do just as much as they can to us. But you'll never read that in the papers.
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So let me get this right, you are all happy with being told what to do by the unelected likes of Junker and his henchmen, banks and international big business. I'd rather throw in my lot with Russia.
junker, the biggest piss head alcoholic we never elected.
the man's a liability for the eu, 😂
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So let me get this right, you are all happy with being told what to do by the unelected likes of Junker and his henchmen, banks and international big business. I'd rather throw in my lot with Russia.
junker, the biggest piss head alcoholic we never elected.
the man's a liability for the eu, 😂
I'd say May is a bigger liability for the UK...and she's sober!
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So let me get this right, you are all happy with being told what to do by the unelected likes of Junker and his henchmen, banks and international big business. I'd rather throw in my lot with Russia.
junker, the biggest piss head alcoholic we never elected.
the man's a liability for the eu, 😂
I'd say May is a bigger liability for the UK...and she's sober!
She was a shit Home Secretary. Why anybody thought she'd be any better as a PM is beyond me.
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In the kingdom of the serially incompetent Tories, the woman who answers every criticism with dog-whistle racist lines is queen.
And before anyone starts mithering about accusations of racism, go and do some research on the things she did and said as Home Secretary. And then ask yourself why she managed to become the darling of the party when she was self evidently unable to find her way past a wooden soundbite.
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So let me get this right, you are all happy with being told what to do by the unelected likes of Junker and his henchmen, banks and international big business. I'd rather throw in my lot with Russia.
I presume from this this that you are hppy to believe the lies you read in the Dail Mail? You clearly have no understanding of how the EU works.
It works like Nazi Germany.
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What's that, the Daily Mail?
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Axholm
I’m going to risk sounding condescending here but you are talking b*llocks. Frighteningly ignorant b*llocks.
The underpinning principle of what has become the EU was always precisely to prevent anything like Nazi Germany ever rising again.
Europe (of which we are an integral part) has always been a powder keg. Because there are so many different nations and groups and philosophies living in such a small space. It’s a more dangerous region than any other one on earth.
Between AD 111 and 1945, an army crossed the Rhine to do battle on average every 37 years. As of 1945, we British had been involved in 4 major continental wars in the previous 130 years.
Those wars were disastrous for Europe and for Britain. They killed millions and sucked up untold amounts of wealth and potential.
Nazi German was the culmination of that history.
And the EEC/EC/EU was designed to make a repeat of that impossible. It was designed to emphasise the commonality. To demonstrate that working and trading together would make us all better and richer than bombing and shooting each other.
As part of that, the EU has required member states to be functioning democracies. It won’t accept dictatorships. And look at how many EU members are now solid democracies, having had experience of dictatorship within living memory.
Spain
Portugal
Italy
Germany
Greece
Bulgaria
Romania
Estonia
Lithuania
Latvia
Poland
Czechia
Slovakia
Slovenia
Croatia
Austria
Hungary - more or less although Orban is treading a fine line with fascist authoritarianism.
The EU has done an incredible job of securing peace, prosperity, democracy and collaboration in Europe. We’re now in the 73rd year of peace on the Continent (ignoring the Yugoslavian Civil War, when they weren’t in the EU). That has never happened in recorded history.
Comparing the EU and Nazi Germany is f**king stupid.
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What's that, the Daily Mail?
The Mail did have some interesting views on Nazis at the time, to be fair.
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So let me get this right, you are all happy with being told what to do by the unelected likes of Junker and his henchmen, banks and international big business. I'd rather throw in my lot with Russia.
I presume from this this that you are hppy to believe the lies you read in the Dail Mail? You clearly have no understanding of how the EU works.
It works like Nazi Germany.
The EU extremination camps must be very well hidden then. Perhaps I should enquire about them with my local EU Gauleiter?
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If anything this just proves how sinister Vote Leave's campaigning was. It spreads these lies to people - the EU is just unelected bureaucrats, they're going to let Turkey join and we can't stop it, we have some dictator telling us what to do all the time - and it gets normal blokes like Axholme to compare it to Nazi Germany. Thing is, he's not the first person I've seen say that.
If you can't get non-political folk to turn out to vote for you, simply make stuff up until they have no choice. To me, that's not democracy. That's how dictatorships start, as we're seeing in our friends across the pond.
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If anything this just proves how sinister Vote Leave's campaigning was. It spreads these lies to people - the EU is just unelected bureaucrats, they're going to let Turkey join and we can't stop it, we have some dictator telling us what to do all the time - and it gets normal blokes like Axholme to compare it to Nazi Germany. Thing is, he's not the first person I've seen say that.
If you can't get non-political folk to turn out to vote for you, simply make stuff up until they have no choice. To me, that's not democracy. That's how dictatorships start, as we're seeing in our friends across the pond.
Funny that the EU gets compared to Nazi Germany when Vote Leave et al have nicked their campaign strategy from Josef Goebbels.
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So let me get this right, you are all happy with being told what to do by the unelected likes of Junker and his henchmen, banks and international big business. I'd rather throw in my lot with Russia.
It saddens me that not only you but millions like you peddle lies unwittingly and believe with every sinew in your bodies such ridiculous tripe . Some can no longer seperate fact from fiction, responsible from the irresponsible, news from fake news, friend from foe, national interest from self interest etc.
Is it impossible even at this late hour, to even ask you to look at what you must by now think of as anti- Brexit posts with a neutral eye or have we lost you altogether ? Just ask yourself ' what if some of the Remain posters on here might just have a point ' , What if they may be right about the past , present or future ? Not on everything but perhaps anything is that too much to ask ?
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Hoola you might be right in many ways, the way you answer people and the way you speak to people if they have a different opinion to you is enough to vote the opposite to you, I have met many a person off this messsge board and many others and never had a problem
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The whole point of my contribution to this topic is to point out that the country has voted and the majority of voters wanted to leave the EU.
From a personal point of view, I very nearly decided to vote leave because of the attitude of the remainers, not least some of them on this forum. I simply didn't like being on their side. I dislike being on their side even more now, since their attitude has become unacceptably appalling, not only to leave voters but to remainers (like me) who accept the result of the vote and want to go forward as a united nation.
Since the vote, claims ranging from lies to irregularities have risen suggesting the vote was distorted, resulting in some wanting a re-vote. My point is, because of the patronising and rude conduct of those who have given the loudest voice for the remainers, I reckon their behaviour throughout would have a detrimental effect on the chances of a reverse decision.
I've said all along that my personal opinion is irrelevant, but what is relevant is what seems to be a common reason why the leavers don't appear to be budging from their stance. Contrary to them defecting towards remain, it's more a case of remainers now wanting to leave.
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That might be your personal opinion BB but it certainly isn't born out by national polling data. They are still fairly even on whether the decision to leave was right or wrong and which way they would vote in a new referendum. With a small shift to the decision being wrong and voting to remain if anything.
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/uk-poll-results/
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In the kingdom of the serially incompetent Tories, the woman who answers every criticism with dog-whistle racist lines is queen.
And before anyone starts mithering about accusations of racism, go and do some research on the things she did and said as Home Secretary. And then ask yourself why she managed to become the darling of the party when she was self evidently unable to find her way past a wooden soundbite.
ah the last line of someone backed into a corner and losing an argument.
but ....but....but....but.... racist !!!
get a grip lad.
go on then, what did she say exactly that was racist?
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So it appears to OK for various people to ignore the truth, ignore detailed predictions by economists, ignore those that post these articles, ignore the facts and predictions that Britain would suffer economically with Brexit even though some of it has already kicked in, ignore all the evidence that the proponents of Brexit have have been dishonest in almost every way, ignore the facts that those in the lower socioeconomic parts of society will and do suffer most, ignore the gains and benefits that the EU has given to regional Britain and ignore the facts on the lack of transparency or planning around the vote or what to do after it and the total incompetence of a government fighting with itself rather than sorting out its own mess all of which has been set out in the previous 70 odd pages but has been ridiculed and scorned and then claim that their feeling have been hurt because those presenting the facts get fed up with the juvenile attitude of those that still appear to think the world is flat, give me a break.
Maybe this is where you should be looking:
https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/
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What exactly would be the point of telling you Boomstick? You’ve ignored every other bit of evidence you’ve been shown.
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What exactly would be the point of telling you Boomstick? You’ve ignored every other bit of evidence you’ve been shown.
is that because she said nothing remotely racist?
still waiting lad
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I’ve a list as long as your arm and a lot longer than your attention. But I’m not interested in convincing you because you don’t engage with facts.
So I’m playing it your way. My opinion is that Theresa May has spent a career endearing herself to the Tory Party membership by engaging in dog whistle racism. That’s my opinion. I don’t have to justify it to you.
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BB
There’s no excuse for patronising, rude behaviour. I’ve done it and I wish I hadn’t. In my case, it comes not from a wish to belittle someone but from frustration when people refuse to engage with the facts in a discussion.
I appreciate that what you see as rude and patronising attitudes is annoying and upsetting. You do know though that it’s not limited to one side of a debate. Have a think how many times people have been accused of being “liberal snowflakes” for taking offence at jibes.
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BST, I don't consider you as one of the main culprits and wasn't directing my comments at you.
I do find rude and patronising attitudes annoying, but not particularly upsetting because I expect them from certain people. If I was to be upset about anything, it would be because I post positive posts with the hope of a positive Brexit outcome, and it is THAT that appears to annoy all you doom-mongers. It's as if you really want me to be wrong, at all costs, because me being wrong would mean that you were right.
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Can I change my mind? The mainstream media has worried me there will be no food left and I will have the clap tomorrow because of a no deal Brexit.
Didn’t think it would come to this thank god we have the army on standby. This country will starve to death.
The mainstream media were on about fake news this week.
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Padge.
The mainstream media are simply reporting what the Govt is doing.
The Govt is making plans for massive stockpiling of non-perishable food and medicine. And the Govt has chosen not to give the promised weekly updates on the provisions they are making because they are concerned that it would cause panic.
You can tell yourself that everything in the papers that you don’t like is fake if you want. Doesn’t mean some of it isn’t true.
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BST, I don't consider you as one of the main culprits and wasn't directing my comments at you.
I do find rude and patronising attitudes annoying, but not particularly upsetting because I expect them from certain people. If I was to be upset about anything, it would be because I post positive posts with the hope of a positive Brexit outcome, and it is THAT that appears to annoy all you doom-mongers. It's as if you really want me to be wrong, at all costs, because me being wrong would mean that you were right.
No but your comments were most likely directed at me . " Patronising " perhaps but once you've engaged in a debate you too have been dismissive and have constantly rarely if ever conceeded any point however much the weight of evidence against your argument. You stated from the outset that you voted to Remain but have constantly argued the case for Leave. Personally I can't see any post where you have actually agreed with a Remoaner.
If I have patronised you or any other poster then I too like Billy earlier apologise but don't for one minute think that through any of these threads it's been one way traffic. Posters on here have bothered to construct long posts only for them to be dismissed out of hand , often with a single sentence. It's frustrating debating in such a manner - for what it's worth I am pulling an earlier post because I shouldn't have posted it .
Incidentally your posts have not always been positive.
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BB you said :-
" Since the vote, claims ranging from lies to irregularities have risen suggesting the vote was distorted, resulting in some wanting a re-vote. My point is, because of the patronising and rude conduct of those who have given the loudest voice for the remainers, I reckon their behaviour throughout would have a detrimental effect on the chances of a reverse decision."
Can't you see why many Remainers are furious , as someone who voted Remain I thought you might have understood ? Some including me are still seething at this illegitimate Referendum .....
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The EU engineered a regime change in Ukraine which has led to the current problems.
The first Pan-European army of modern times was the Waffen SS.
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Hoola you might be right in many ways, the way you answer people and the way you speak to people if they have a different opinion to you is enough to vote the opposite to you, I have met many a person off this messsge board and many others and never had a problem
You have a point and I'm sorry but for me currently this is very personal perhaps I should start to look at the evidence you provide me with more closely.
Perhaps I get pissed off with being called unpatriotic, a Remoaner ( do you know how condescending that title is ? ), a snowflake even at one point an enemy of the people . Moaned at , cajoled to get behind a project that I distrusted from the start . I was right to distrust now the facts are coming out but not one of you brave Brexiteers has agreed with any sorry point raised by posters on here . Not once has someone said " do you know what they were wrong to whip up racial tensions ", " steal and manipulate millions of fb accounts with blatant lies " etc etc . NOT ONCE !
Now when I look through these pages I see many a poster agreeing that work needed to be done with immigration , plenty of criticism of Merkel the EU structure etc yet - we are accused of being intransigent, unable to recognise the weaknesses of the EU but EVERY Remoaner has done just that all the way through.
What's more they have done that in depth providing evidence, attachments for you to consider not agree with necessarily but just to consider .
Now if you can honestly say you have argued your case giving due care to at least look at the dozens possibly 100s of pieces of data and argued your case in the same depth then and only then would you have a point - have you ?
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The EU engineered a regime change in Ukraine which has led to the current problems.
The first Pan-European army of modern times was the Waffen SS.
Where did you get that idea from and what exactly are you suggesting here - that Brussels ousted Putin's puppet . Where on earth did you get that from ?
Only the USA would ever dare to confront Russia in that way surely ?
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Can I change my mind? The mainstream media has worried me there will be no food left and I will have the clap tomorrow because of a no deal Brexit.
Didn’t think it would come to this thank god we have the army on standby. This country will starve to death.
The mainstream media were on about fake news this week.
Of course you can if there is a 2nd Referendum Padge, good luck with the knobrot haha
I wonder where that story came from was it the Government itself ?
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I’ve a list as long as your arm and a lot longer than your attention. But I’m not interested in convincing you because you don’t engage with facts.
So I’m playing it your way. My opinion is that Theresa May has spent a career endearing herself to the Tory Party membership by engaging in dog whistle racism. That’s my opinion. I don’t have to justify it to you.
seems it's you that refuses to deal with facts.
still waiting for this list of things that may said, that was racist.
tick tock .....
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I’ve a list as long as your arm and a lot longer than your attention. But I’m not interested in convincing you because you don’t engage with facts.
So I’m playing it your way. My opinion is that Theresa May has spent a career endearing herself to the Tory Party membership by engaging in dog whistle racism. That’s my opinion. I don’t have to justify it to you.
seems it's you that refuses to deal with facts.
still waiting for this list of things that may said, that was racist.
tick tock .....
Sending "go home" vans around areas that had a high number of ethnic minorities based on f**k all.
Deporting black British citizens to the Caribbean to meet deportation targets. Many people don't know that the Windrush actually made several stops on its way to Britain and many passengers were white. Relatively few of these white folk got deported under May's instruction though, which is why people think the Windrush was just full of people from the Caribbean.
Told lies about an immigrant who couldn't be deported because they had a cat, which she repeated even though she knew it to be false.
This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure a decent Google will throw up a few more.
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I’ve a list as long as your arm and a lot longer than your attention. But I’m not interested in convincing you because you don’t engage with facts.
So I’m playing it your way. My opinion is that Theresa May has spent a career endearing herself to the Tory Party membership by engaging in dog whistle racism. That’s my opinion. I don’t have to justify it to you.
seems it's you that refuses to deal with facts.
still waiting for this list of things that may said, that was racist.
tick tock .....
Sending "go home" vans around areas that had a high number of ethnic minorities based on f**k all.
Deporting black British citizens to the Caribbean to meet deportation targets. Many people don't know that the Windrush actually made several stops on its way to Britain and many passengers were white. Relatively few of these white folk got deported under May's instruction though, which is why people think the Windrush was just full of people from the Caribbean.
Told lies about an immigrant who couldn't be deported because they had a cat, which she repeated even though she knew it to be false.
This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure a decent Google will throw up a few more.
links please.
although I do know that those 'go home vans' (they didn't even say that) were in reference to illegal immigrants only.
still waiting for the proof of anything remotely racist.
not even in the same league as Corbyn.
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/31/go-home-vans-11-leave-britain
"Go home or face arrest". Seems pretty cut and dried to me. They might have been "aimed" at illegal immigrants, but they were driven around areas with high numbers of ethnic minorities. What sort of message do you think that sends to people who are here legally, or even British people who's parents or grandparents were immigrants?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15171980
The "can't be deported because he has a cat" story.
I'm not going to bother with the Windrush stuff, just Google Windrush and take your pick. It was only in the news a few months back.
What were you expecting? Video footage of her with a burning cross and a white hood? There are other forms of racism that are dangerous, especially when they're coming from the government.
As for your last point, I'll just leave this image here.
(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/politics/2018/01/15/TELEMMGLPICT000127224536_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqrWYeUU_H0zBKyvljOo6zlmEHdkfrF9Qe28yVdP6jne4.jpeg?imwidth=450)
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That's Jezza isn't it , I couldn't believe that was still going on until 1994
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Shame he won't sort out the Jewish issue
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Boomstick
Frustrating isn't it? When someone just gives an opinion and doesn't back it up with anything substantive. Welcome to my world.
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I’ve a list as long as your arm and a lot longer than your attention. But I’m not interested in convincing you because you don’t engage with facts.
So I’m playing it your way. My opinion is that Theresa May has spent a career endearing herself to the Tory Party membership by engaging in dog whistle racism. That’s my opinion. I don’t have to justify it to you.
seems it's you that refuses to deal with facts.
still waiting for this list of things that may said, that was racist.
tick tock .....
Sending "go home" vans around areas that had a high number of ethnic minorities based on f**k all.
Deporting black British citizens to the Caribbean to meet deportation targets. Many people don't know that the Windrush actually made several stops on its way to Britain and many passengers were white. Relatively few of these white folk got deported under May's instruction though, which is why people think the Windrush was just full of people from the Caribbean.
Told lies about an immigrant who couldn't be deported because they had a cat, which she repeated even though she knew it to be false.
This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure a decent Google will throw up a few more.
links please.
although I do know that those 'go home vans' (they didn't even say that) were in reference to illegal immigrants only.
still waiting for the proof of anything remotely racist.
not even in the same league as Corbyn.
The 2014 Immigration Act and its consequences
https://www.facebook.com/LBC/videos/james-obrien-on-theresa-may-and-racism/10156054880771558/
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Lads, lads, lads. What's with all this evidence? I thought we were dealing with opinions, not evidence.
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The EU engineered a regime change in Ukraine which has led to the current problems.
The first Pan-European army of modern times was the Waffen SS.
Ignoring the fact that the Waffen SS were not an army (they didn't fight as one force together but as smaller units alone or alongside the Werhrmacht), if you are taking 'modern times' as post the Napoleonic Wars then surely the first pan-European army was that of the Habsburg Empire?
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Lads, lads, lads. What's with all this evidence? I thought we were dealing with opinions, not evidence.
That's just your opinion!
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The EU engineered a regime change in Ukraine which has led to the current problems.
The first Pan-European army of modern times was the Waffen SS.
Ignoring the fact that the Waffen SS were not an army (they didn't fight as one force together but as smaller units alone or alongside the Werhrmacht), if you are taking 'modern times' as post the Napoleonic Wars then surely the first pan-European army was that of the Habsburg Empire?
I think someone's forgotten the debt we owe the Prussians...without them we wouldn't have beaten Napoleon!
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Lads, lads, lads. What's with all this evidence? I thought we were dealing with opinions, not evidence.
Evidence is like buses you don't see one for ages - then they come all at once. Haha
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The EU engineered a regime change in Ukraine which has led to the current problems.
The first Pan-European army of modern times was the Waffen SS.
Ignoring the fact that the Waffen SS were not an army (they didn't fight as one force together but as smaller units alone or alongside the Werhrmacht), if you are taking 'modern times' as post the Napoleonic Wars then surely the first pan-European army was that of the Habsburg Empire?
I think someone's forgotten the debt we owe the Prussians...without them we wouldn't have beaten Napoleon!
Massive debt without Blücher and his troops the battle would have been lost . The strangest thing ever when I was young was a visit to Les Invalides and Napolean's tomb only to see an exhibition about how the great man almost if not actually won that battle. Seems the French believed the man was nigh on invincible and he was . We also forget that our soldiers fought alongside the Dutch - it was an Anglo- Dutch army lead by the great man .
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Remain 37..........56.9 %
Leave 28..........43.1 %
Movement due to new voters - it could be argued that many people who don't actually vote are happy to maintain the status quo. This is borne out so far with 5/6 voters choosing to vote Remain if there was a 2nd Referendum.
So far the 8/6 Remain / Leave of voters of either voters switching allegiance or deciding to vote for the 1st time suggests just a small change 4 : 3
What pollsters can't distinguish is quite how many of the 12,000,000 would vote this time and in what ratio and how many would switch allegiances amongst the 33,000,000 who voted the 1st time . Difficult to account for voter apathy etc .
Who would be a pollster - even on our small sample
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What's surprising on this vote isn't more people have changed there vote to leave than stay, I wonder what the reason for that is?
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What's surprising on this vote isn't more people have changed there vote to leave than stay, I wonder what the reason for that is?
There may be an embarrassment factor in play, maybe they didnt want to admit they voted leave without the facts or that they were told lies?.
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SO why aren't those who changed their vote from remain to leave even more embarrassed by joining the 'fools' in the knowledge of all the facts and all the lies?
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Because you've made such a compelling, crystal clear case for Leave, BB?
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48 % of the British troops at Waterloo were Irish, only 16% were English, the remainder being Scots and Welsh.
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Because you've made such a compelling, crystal clear case for Leave, BB?
And here's me thinking it was already a crystal clear case that we were all already leavers!
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SO why aren't those who changed their vote from remain to leave even more embarrassed by joining the 'fools' in the knowledge of all the facts and all the lies?
BB can we drop the ' fools ' stuff now , there's all sorts of daft abuse going on from both camps on here, fb, Twitter and generally. Brexiteers playing the ' mock ' paranoia card has run it's course now . We both know that there has been some mother fecking shite thrown at both camps .
To answer your question , perhaps it's because they just dont think ' the facts ' affect them
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48 % of the British troops at Waterloo were Irish, only 16% were English, the remainder being Scots and Welsh.
Only 25,000 out of the 68,000 commanded by the Iron Duke were British. Interestingly and bear in mind there were a further 50,000 Germans who joined the battle means only c. 30 % of the troops at the battle were British.
Many consider " it a very German victory " - however it must be considered a European victory bearing in mind there were English,Irish, Scots, Welsh, Walloons, Dutch, Flemish and of course nearly 60,000 Germans.
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SO why aren't those who changed their vote from remain to leave even more embarrassed by joining the 'fools' in the knowledge of all the facts and all the lies?
Perhaps they read the Daily Mail et al and believe the lies that the EU are being unreasonable and are holding us to ransome?
I've heard many people say such. Selby for instance?
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https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/brexitometer-shows-that-doncaster-people-have-changed-their-minds-about-brexit-1-9264949/amp?__twitter_impression=true (https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/brexitometer-shows-that-doncaster-people-have-changed-their-minds-about-brexit-1-9264949/amp?__twitter_impression=true)
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https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/brexitometer-shows-that-doncaster-people-have-changed-their-minds-about-brexit-1-9264949/amp?__twitter_impression=true (https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/brexitometer-shows-that-doncaster-people-have-changed-their-minds-about-brexit-1-9264949/amp?__twitter_impression=true)
Thanks Wes, I knew we could rely on good old south yorkshire common sense to prevail.
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Christ Wes that is an overwhelming thumbs down for Brexit- shame I didn't know Femi was in town. Hes a very bright lad who has been running rings round Farage etc ,they mustwant to run a mile when he rings them up on their radio programmes.
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Hoola, I don't read that as an overwhelming thumbs down for Brexit.
'Many of those interviewed expressed a desire for a "people’s vote" based on how the government should be negotiating leave terms', with the inclusion of an option to remain. That is hardly overwhelming.
It does suggest, however, that there would be a swing to the remain side with people changing their minds, not least because of the deep divisions caused by the original vote.
With that in mind, it does seem strange how the poll in this little forum community has gone in favour of more people switching their original vote to leave than to remain, despite the imbalance of more active remainers on this forum.
This reinforces my claim that the attitude of some of them has been counterproductive.
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With that in mind, it does seem strange how the poll in this little forum community has gone in favour of more people switching their original vote to leave than to remain, despite the imbalance of more active remainers on this forum.
Maybe it shows that people outside this forum more readily accept the facts and truth surrounding the leave campaign and the situation we are faced with now, whereas those on the forum appear to be trying to score points without accepting reality, just sayin'
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It’s fascinating. I always thought the snowflakes who got upset by hard discussion were supposed to be the namby pamby liberal types. But here we are saying that people are supporting Brexit for no other reason than that the other side are being horrid to them.
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Who said namby pamby liberal snowflakes got upset by hard discussion? They love hard discussion! They can't resist showing off their pretentious, holier than thou, do good attitude. They love calling anyone who disagrees with them anything from a dipshit to a racist.
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If you’re pointing that at me B.B., I apologised immediately for one (although that was aimed at someone who has called people “melts”, “f**king childish” and other things and never once apologised but there you go) and have never used the other.
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And maybe you could explain what you have meant by the word “snowflake” when you’ve frequently used it in the past?
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Of course, I was pointing it at you, Just like you were referring to me when you brought the snowflake jibe up. I was replying to your post! I know you apologised for that remark, and you went up in my estimation for doing so. I would also apologise for my namby pamby etc remark if I had anything to apologise for.
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I think the only forumer I've seen called (and myself called) a racist was Oslo, because come on now. That guy was to the right of Darth Vader.
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You could also think about apologising for accusing me of calling people racist while your at it.
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You can show me where I did accuse you of calling people racist, or failing that, apologise to me.
I said namby pamby liberal snowflakes can't resist showing off their pretentious, holier than thou, do good attitude. They love calling anyone who disagrees with them anything from a dipshit to a racist.
I accused you of calling someone a dipshit, not a racist. I was referring to the scale that snowflakes will go to in general.
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So you weren’t aiming that at me. That’s sorted.
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Apology accepted.
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Apology accepted.
Seems apologies are mounting up on our side eh BB - I don't think of you as a pretentious or holier than thou just a Remainer. It's great to have had you on our side from the start, upticking and generally supporting our band of brothers. Keep going with those thought - provoking posts ,you have challenged us all to constantly back up our arguments and it's working - it is with your help that we have managed to get those that didn't vote last time, to now consider voting with us and to nudge the dial slightly our way should there be another vote.
Just to clarify - by ' sides ' , at the end of the day we are just a bunch of supporters who most of the time are on the same side supporting our small town club . We are just used to having our backs to the wall. Brexit is just small fry compared to some of the campaigns we have all been engaged in over the years eh ?
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Thanks, Hoola. Always happy to help. You're right about us long-suffering Rovers supporters being hardy buggers too!
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Thanks, Hoola. Always happy to help. You're right about us long-suffering Rovers supporters being hardy buggers too!
Lol I knew you would take that in the spirit it was written in ..... now to somehow make the most out of this situation . We know there will be losers but somehow that has to be kept to a minimum . Do you remember that time when Swansea came to the Moat and we were playing really well under SOD . It was a night match and if I remember rightly they were the class team playing wonderful footy at the time . Anyway the up shot of it was ( bear with me here ) we lost 4-0 I think and both sets of fans walked away thrilled by the quality from both teams - they were magnificent but then so were we . I am just hoping that we get to get even the smallest win out of this, of course we went onto Wemberlee and humiliated the Weeds in front of 75,000 .
I don't want to feel humiliated and I know we are all afraid of that now. We just have to get summat out of this somehow.
Why do I mention that , well because we all have more that binds us together regionally than anything that divides us nationally ;) When all this shit is still around or even gone , we will still carry the spirit of our town in us.
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Yes, I remember the Swansea game. The two teams played exactly the same way but Swansea were so much better at it! I had to leave at halftime to go to a birthday party, but I was gutted to go because despite losing heavily it was a joy to watch.
It was an event that proved that life isn't all about winning, and sometimes more can be learnt from losing. That game certainly was a lesson in losing!
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Yes, I remember the Swansea game. The two teams played exactly the same way but Swansea were so much better at it! I had to leave at halftime to go to a birthday party, but I was gutted to go because despite losing heavily it was a joy to watch.
It was an event that proved that life isn't all about winning, and sometimes more can be learnt from losing. That game certainly was a lesson in losing!
Happy days we've had the worst and the best in Rovers players, management and especially boardroom antics since that glorious season . Whoever would have thought we would have played at both the New Wembley and of course The Millennium stadium in such a short period of time - both times outnumbered in the stadia but victorious. Oh for a season like that again and a result like that in these negotiations ......thought I would lighten the mood a bit .
Hope you all felt a warm glow for a bit at least......
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YEEEEESSSSSS my longest ever Thread !
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First time in history a thread about Brexit has got around to football. (There are plenty that have gone the other way around!)
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Wonder how a no deal would affect the Premier League. Will it make it impossible to sign foreign players?
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First time in history a thread about Brexit has got around to football. (There are plenty that have gone the other way around!)
Glad you appreciated it RB , just fed- up of day to day bad news.
Now what about Copps' hat trick in the play off second leg against Sarfend eh a wonder to behold.
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Wonder how a no deal would affect the Premier League. Will it make it impossible to sign foreign players?
It depends what the government decides to do about immigration rules. And they're not saying.
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Wonder how a no deal would affect the Premier League. Will it make it impossible to sign foreign players?
I think the billionaire club owners will be alright whatever happens! There'll probably be a few extra hoops to jump through which may well inflate player prices even further but I don't see foreign players being affected. Plenty of foreign players already come from outside the EU anyway.
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We have got to get away from Belgium and France, they are so good at football. I don't mind the Germans so much now, but in the past?
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We have got to get away from Belgium and France, they are so good at football. I don't mind the Germans so much now, but in the past?
Then of course there is Spain Selby, they had no right to match us at our game either .
Next thing is they will have golfers and tennis players......