Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: selby on August 06, 2018, 11:09:50 am
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Another physical encounter in front of us this coming weekend if reports on their game against Blackpool and the return of Akinfenwa is anything to go by.
I wonder if he still thinks we are situated so far up north?
Their manager Gareth Ainsworth has to be commended over the last few seasons for his teams achievements on little resources money wise, and continually have battled in games, made it hard for the opposition, and in Akinfenwa have a player who has goals in him and must be up there in the all time assist league for the players around him,if we let him boss us down the middle of the park we are in for a hard afternoon.
Reading their report against Blackpool their midfield four play a high energy game, are very fit, and Ainsworth gets them, and expects them to cover large distances in the game. Bowyer the Blackpool manager, who also expects his players to play with energy and physicality commended their efforts, and said after the game how difficult it was for them to control the game in that area, and free kicks and set pieces were hard to defend against.
So we have it all to do again next Saturday, match a physical side, and try and impose our game on them.
We are no longer the shrinking violets we were up to last Christmas, on Saturday look far more threatening in attack, but will have to try and retain the ball in midfield better. Whatever happens I expect our central defenders and full backs to be severely tested physically, but they have learnt to deal with that looking at the performances since last Christmas.
Keeping Marquis in the next few days is imperative, or getting a massive fee and a couple of good replacements, that is if people think he can ever be replaced, which would be hard to do. Hopefully teams will not come in for him and upset the apple cart.
As for changes in our team from last weekend, it would be difficult to justify any at all. Yes we were outplayed in periods of the game, but we put in a hell of hard work and a performance at a difficult place to go to be proud of.
I would like to see McCullough at least on the substitutes bench, but hey ho, changing the starting eleven to my mind would be hard on any of the players, so the same as for me, and enjoy the ride.
Would you change any of the team from Saturday?
Will we adopt the same formation at home?
Will Akinfenwa be our biggest physical test of this season?
Are we a team that will score lots of goals this Season?
Will a team come in for Marquis late on this week, and are we in a position to rebuff any approach if they do?
Will we have any plan, or targets in mind if that situation raises its head?
Lots of things to discuss, lots of different ideas, Please have your say.
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If we let Bayo bully the centre halves we'll have f**ked it.
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I don’t think Kane was brought in to sit on the bench so he could be put in for Whiteman moving Crawford to the right. I also think he will rest Copps and play Taylor if he’s fit.
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At the end of our promotion season season Bayo bossed our central defenders (Butler and Wright I ]at Wycombe .It is a job for Wright and Anderson.
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It will be a good individual battle between Akinfenwa and Butler.
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Because of Bayo maybe Anderson for Wright.
Kane for Crawford.
Crawford for Coppinger.
Taylor on the bench for Kiwomya.
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Because Wycombe will probably come and try to settle back for a 0-0 I think we will need Coppingers skill to unlock them.
No way should he be left out, especially for a home game.
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After going to the game away at Wycombe a couple of seasons ago, I think this could be a game for Anderson to come in and attempt to deal with him.
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I don't think he'll change anything. He'll try and give this formation every chance of working and hope we can play more like the second half performance v Southend. I doubt he'll knee jerk and put Kane in just yet.
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Coppinger by his standards had a quiet game on Saturday, especially in the first half when he was starved of the ball in the first half hour, because of Southend's total domination of midfield in that area.
In the last quarter of that half he came much more central. got more on the ball and we came into the game a lot more, and Rowe and Crawford had someone to play with. this continued after half time when we were dominant for the first half hour of that half.
If you watch the Wilkes goal closely, he received the ball with his back to goal, and a defender tight up behind him, Coppinger made a run on the outside causing the defender to drop off Wilkes a couple of yards to cover the run, giving Wilkes the room to turn and get his shot off.
As soon as Coppinger went off, and Crawford, we were left with Whiteman and Blair who give us energy, but are not the best at controlling the ball and tend to give it away in poor defensive areas, which was what happened and we were hanging on.
We took Coppinger off ten minutes before we needed to, just when he and Rowe were getting the better of their midfield,and when for the first time in the game Coppinger was getting on the ball, and ended up with players again ( Whiteman and Blair ) in areas of the field where they are not suited in my opinion.
Of course others will disagree with me and I accept that they are entitled to do so.
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Watching the replay closely again of the Wilks goal, it was Crawford not Copps who did the clever run outside Wilks.
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It's a tough one to call this as we haven't actually seen Kane play and don't know how he will adapt to league 1 physicality..That said a home game is the right time to see, so I would leave Copps on the bench and take it from there..
As much as people don't want to hear it,Copps cant go on forever and I've a feeling his game time might be more limited this year,so the sooner we see what Kane can offer the better..
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Why would Kane come in for Coppinger? Copps is playing wide right of the front three and Kane has been signed as a central playmaker. He's in the conversation for Whiteman or Crawford's spot in the team not Coppinger's.
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Because like what has been muted above I think Kane will partner Whiteman and Crawford will be pushed out to replace Coppinger..GM seems to want to increase our pace by the looks and that's no longer Copps strength..It will be interesting to see which way he plans to go at home when it's down to us to attack..
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I can't see Crawford playing in the front three. He's there to be busy and resourceful in the middle three. The alternatives to Coppinger are Kiwomya and Beestin from the looks of things.
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There's something I don't get about the Copps situation; he's an attacking midfielder, and according to lots of posters on here, has no leadership qualities on the field; so how is it that almost every time he's subbed, we concede goals?; surely it can't be just coincidence.
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There's something I don't get about the Copps situation; he's an attacking midfielder, and according to lots of posters on here, has no leadership qualities on the field; so how is it that almost every time he's subbed, we concede goals?; surely it can't be just coincidence.
We did score after he went off as well!
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The alternative to Copps is Taylor I believe
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The alternative to Copps is Taylor I believe
Long term he will be (hopefully) but I'd be surprised if he's in contention for a start before September.
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I keep forgetting about Taylor, you're right he's the other one.
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The manager told us that Taylor was still a week to 10 days away from being fully fit and that was a week ago. We could find him in the squad on Saturday, but first 11? Not sure. Depends on training this week.
I agree with Kane’s inclusion as well.
Let’s see.
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The alternative to Copps is Taylor I believe
Long term he will be (hopefully) but I'd be surprised if he's in contention for a start before September.
I’m really going on McCann’s comments of its about the squad and picking teams to suit the game, Taylor has more bite than Copps so if fit I expect he will play however after 60 mins bring on a fresh Copps against a tiring defence
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All this talk of who is going to be in our starting 11 or even in the squad is nice to see. Looking at Wycombe did anyone else noticed they only named 5 subs on Saturday and also had a player sent off? Not sure if they’re short of players or always name 5 subs?
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Because like what has been muted above I think Kane will partner Whiteman and Crawford will be pushed out to replace Coppinger..GM seems to want to increase our pace by the looks and that's no longer Copps strength..It will be interesting to see which way he plans to go at home when it's down to us to attack..
Copps has never been really quick.
He uses his skill and brain to beat defenders.
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The thing is, there are a number of permutations now, which can only be good news if the manager uses the options well.
As said before it would be great if we were 3-0 up and bring Copps On rather than visa versa.
There aren't many players who can contribute to seeing a game out better than Copps who can read things, hold a ball up, bring others into a game, and more likely run the clock down in their half rather than our own.
It's just getting to a point where the team can be just as positive and threatening without him. For me that will be a test of how good this squad is.
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The funny thing is, we obviously have good options now.
Only last week people were saying our squad was a weak one.
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Copps has had twice the playing career that Taylor has had, and was dominating division 1 defences last season, while Taylor was having an enforced holiday.
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I was talking to 3 Bradford fans and they said Taylor should never have left and he will be a great player for us if he can get his head sorted. He went to pot again after McCall left
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Same team as Southend for me, give them a chance to get use to the system because it wasn't working in the first half.
Would agree as others say a physical battle and also expecting both teams to score
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At the end of our promotion season season Bayo bossed our central defenders (Butler and Wright I ]at Wycombe .It is a job for Wright and Anderson.
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it was actually butler and Baudry at Wycombe in league 2
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Copps has had twice the playing career that Taylor has had, and was dominating division 1 defences last season, while Taylor was having an enforced holiday.
Nobody's comparing the 2 players Brian; people are just talking about situations and game management; imagine utilising both players in a match when they're both at their best; that would be a hell of a threat to the opponents.
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Just had a quick look at Wycombe' s starting 11 on saturday. Could be a very entertaining game as they look to have a very physical squad and many in their 30s. Much the opposite to us. Will have to be good defensively on set pieces. Ill go for a very tight game 2-1 Rovers. Marquis and Rowe.
Marosi
Mason
Wright
Anderson
Butler
Andrew
Whiteman
Crawford
Rowe
Wilkes
Marquis
Subs:
Lawlor
Amos
Taylor
Coppinger
Kane
Kiwomya
Blair
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Steve, we have just won our first game I think in six, against a team that finished last season with a long run of wins in games at home.
Kiwomya came on as substitute and played wide, and with Wilks gave us raw speed on the flanks for the last 20 minutes, something we have not had for years.
Kiwomya also looked far more threatening than in any game last season, and Coppinger had been a large part, with Rowe, of us getting back in the game when he moved more central.
I cannot see for the life of me why people want to bring someone else in, other than going on reputation and a past significant fee paid for him that he never warranted after being bought, or just wanting change because he is a new name on the team sheet. If he plays in the reserves, plays well, gets fit, then yes, or is put on the subs bench comes on and performs.
That is what he has to do for me, not because of his past or his name. Some of the people pushing for him to play will not have gone to Southend or watched his couple of half games in preseason, but read that some Bradford supporters thought he was a good player twelve months ago.
He is no longer their player, he has to prove it here, and not at the expense of players who have just proved their worth in a difficult game.
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Steve, we have just won our first game I think in six, against a team that finished last season with a long run of wins in games at home.
Kiwomya came on as substitute and played wide, and with Wilks gave us raw speed on the flanks for the last 20 minutes, something we have not had for years.
Kiwomya also looked far more threatening than in any game last season, and Coppinger had been a large part, with Rowe, of us getting back in the game when he moved more central.
I cannot see for the life of me why people want to bring someone else in, other than going on reputation and a past significant fee paid for him that he never warranted after being bought, or just wanting change because he is a new name on the team sheet. If he plays in the reserves, plays well, gets fit, then yes, or is put on the subs bench comes on and performs.
That is what he has to do for me, not because of his past or his name. Some of the people pushing for him to play will not have gone to Southend or watched his couple of half games in preseason, but read that some Bradford supporters thought he was a good player twelve months ago.
He is no longer their player, he has to prove it here, and not at the expense of players who have just proved their worth in a difficult game.
Brian, what on earth are you talking about?. I never suggested bringing anyone in, or making any changes to last Saturday's team; I was merely talking about how Copps and Taylor could both be utilised in a game when they're both fit and at their best, which Taylor clearly isn't yet.
You're just banging on all the time about Taylor's past and how he performed pre-season; you're obviously not happy he's been signed, so your argument is with GM, nobody else.
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That is wrong Steve, now he has signed I want him to do well, I probably got the wrong end of the stick with your post, but to my mind he is behind Wilks And Kiwomya at this time, and will have to play well for his place, as it should be.
I do however think he and one or two others will take some part against Scunthorpe, although I want us to take the game seriously with the money we can make from a good draw if we get through.
What we do want to do is keep our better players on the field longer, Coppinger is one of those, and we do not want to fall into the trap of bringing him off for the sake of it, which at times we have done to our cost.
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According to DFP one unnamed player who did the full 90+ on Saturday is injured and could be out 4 weeks or more. So there will have to be at least one change in the line-up.
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Not sure it’s relevent how he did in Pre season etc.
Mcann will see him every day in training and If he thinks he’s going to give us a better chance of beating someone he’ll play him.
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Dickos, exactly, he sees him in training as he does all the playing staff, reputations should count for nothing when judging playing ability.
That is exactly what I am talking about, people are pushing for his inclusion on here who may have not even seen him play.
This so called mystery injury may or may not help to get him established either on the bench or in the team.
If it is Crawford I would shove Whiteman in that position and bring in McCullough myself, and include Taylor on the bench if he is now match fit.
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Dickos, exactly, he sees him in training as he does all the playing staff, reputations should count for nothing when judging playing ability.
That is exactly what I am talking about, people are pushing for his inclusion on here who may have not even seen him play.
This so called mystery injury may or may not help to get him established either on the bench or in the team.
If it is Crawford I would shove Whiteman in that position and bring in McCullough myself, and include Taylor on the bench if he is now match fit.
Who's pushing for his inclusion, Brian?.
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Other reasons why I'm looking forward to the first home game of the season are.
The new extended fan park outside the BVB, including vendors selling street food. We have campaigned for competition for Centre plate with food they just cannot deliver. At last it looks as though that manopoly has been broken and fans will have a real good choice improving the pre-match offering.
I always look forward to seeing the pristine pitch and having had a sneaky peek earlier this week, it looks a picture.
These are just a couple of more things to wet the appetite before we see the new regime kick a ball in anger at home for the first time.
It may be still holiday season but news of our opening victory can't have done any harm so I really hope there will be in excess of 6500 to enjoy it.
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Hope there will be 8500
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The funny thing is, we obviously have good options now.
Only last week people were saying our squad was a weak one.
Attacking midfielder wise we do have great options, Blair, copps, Taylor, Crawford, Rowe,
We’re probably as strong as any side with that type of player.
But we still don’t really have good options for the number 9, full back or defensive midfielder.
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I think Andrew and Amos between them have got left back sewn up. The right side isn't as strong. Mason needs to get tougher, I still don't think Lund is up to it but I can't see GM adding anyone there just yet.
Yet to see Taylor to see what he can bring to the party plus I don't see why Wilks couldn't adapt to the centre forward position if required. He's a big strong boy!
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The new system will alter our perceptions of some of the players as to how they adapt to it.
The wide front men Wilks and Coppinger, until they went looking for the ball after about 30 minutes on Saturday were passengers as we were pinned back and over run.
In the second half Coppinger, Crawford and especially Rowe got to grips with their roll, which brought Wilks and Marquis into the game.
After the substitutions were made, Blair and Whiteman struggled to get a grip, and we lost the ball easily.
The system is work in progress, but it needs players in the central midfield area that can take care of the ball when they get it, and especially have a good first touch, I have my doubts about whether all our players will adapt.
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If Crawford is injured I’d okay kiwomya and Wilks with Marquis and coppinger in the middle 3.
He played most of last season as a central midfielder. Coppinger and Rowe ahead of a defensive midfielder would be very good
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Good shout that Dickos, Taylor to cover Coppinger in the later stages if required. I think experience is important in that area in this new system, and both bring that to the table, know what areas to be in, and when and where to play the ball.
Hopefully Crawford's injury, or whoever it is, is not as serious as feared.
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If Crawford is injured I’d okay kiwomya and Wilks with Marquis and coppinger in the middle 3.
He played most of last season as a central midfielder. Coppinger and Rowe ahead of a defensive midfielder would be very good
I don't personally think Coppinger has the energy to play in that middle 3. He played #10 most of last season, it's not as demanding a role in terms of stamina and getting up and down the pitch. I can't see him being used there by McCann unless he's out of more dedicated central options.
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Last season he played deeper than he’s played in previous years, we had beestin pushed on ahead of him.
Copps says he’s as fit as he’s ever been, still leading all the pre season testing.
With someone more defensive behind him and Rowe that would be ideal in the middle of the park
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I agree Dickos, and it gets our better players on the ball in an important area, last season we were just as likely to see Rowe at left back.
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Last season he played deeper than he’s played in previous years, we had beestin pushed on ahead of him.
Copps says he’s as fit as he’s ever been, still leading all the pre season testing.
With someone more defensive behind him and Rowe that would be ideal in the middle of the park
Couldn’t agree more.
Apparently Copps still leads the way in training and is as fit as anyone.
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Fit as he may be he has never been the most stellar defensive player and to play in that three you need to be able to get up and down all areas of the pitch and contribute in defence. Add Copps to a front three that are being instructed to stay further forward and you will find we are very vulnerable off the ball. I don't believe Coppinger will be a top option for midfield but hopefully will remain first choice in the front three.
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It’s ok to disagree
I think as more games go by you will see the working of this formation, the two wide front players will have to get through an awful lot of work closing full backs down and tracking. And then also providing the width for us in attack.
The three midfielders will stay narrow and compact
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I agree, and am looking forward to getting to understand our new set-up better just as I'm sure the players are too!
I'm a big fan of Coppinger and hope he fits into it all I just don't see the middle three being the place for him.
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It may be still holiday season but news of our opening victory can't have done any harm so I really hope there will be in excess of 6500 to enjoy it.
Hope there will be 8500
My prediction last week was 1001 out (too high) so I will go 7500 this week and one of you will be right !
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It may be still holiday season but news of our opening victory can't have done any harm so I really hope there will be in excess of 6500 to enjoy it.
Hope there will be 8500
My prediction last week was 1001 out (too high) so I will go 7500 this week and one of you will be right !
6500 I reckon. Tough game this tomorrow as they're a physical side. I'm looking for us to play forward quickly and force them back. Would bring in Mccullough or Kane for Crawford and push Whiteman forward.
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Wycombe have strengthened since the opening game by signing Jason McCarthey a full back from Barnsley, and Bryn Morris from Shrewsbury a defensive midfielder in the window.
Whether they will be involved in the starting line up tomorrow who knows, but they kept a clean sheet last week against Blackpool, so I expect them to be a solid unit anyway, and physical.
An interesting game, and being at home,the first home game this season, we could do with an exciting game to watch, and a good result to open up our season and create interest.
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It will be a welcome back to Nathan Tyson
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Let's talk about the Wycombe game?
11 men in red and white will face up to 11 in blue. Hopefully there will be goals, and more for us than them. That will do for me ;)
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It will be a welcome back to Nathan Tyson
He was hobbling about on crutches before their game last week so maybe not.
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It will be a welcome back to Nathan Tyson
He was hobbling about on crutches before their game last week so maybe not.
Wycombe will also be a regular first teamer missing as he was sent off towards the end of their game last Saturday.
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Let's talk about the Wycombe game?
11 men in red and white will face up to 11 in blue. Hopefully there will be goals, and more for us than them. That will do for me ;)
Bump.!
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Very enjoyable and refreshing. Best pre-match I can remember for a long time. A real buzz, everyone in and around the fan park enjoying the weather and the entertainment.
The match delivered. Hopefully everyone can now see how McCann wants to play and the players seem fully committed to it. It's a good sign that you remember more about what the full backs did in their half, rather than ours.
Wilkes and Kane are quality but the balance of the team was up there so we can attack from all angles.
Kept up a good tempo throughout the game and we got the rewards. Still room for improvement but we've got to be happy with the entertainment on offer.
More of the same please.
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Liked that performance today. Very good.
Wycombe were a horrible cynical team who were wasting time from the first minute but we just brushed it off, stayed patient and coasted it in the 2nd half.
Wilks is clearly going to frustrate and delight in equal measure but there won’t be too many complaints if he keeps scoring goals like that.
Kane looked very good too. Early days but he looks very comfortable on the ball.
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I would swop Kane and Whiteman round personally but the system worked well today. Credit to all the team a job well done in the end.
1st half delivery into the box was poor, but it was only a matter of time before we stamped our authority on the game with goals.
Think Wycombe are nailed on for relegation though.
Yes I know it’s only 2 games.
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It'll never catch on this playing players in their natural positions and having a balanced team. McCann out :chair: :chair:
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As baz said,the whole experience of the game was enjoyable from a spectators view.
The before game entertainment went down well, helped by the weather, and the game delivered a result and an encouraging performance.
Everyone played well for me,we looked a balanced side, the substitutes got straight into the game when they came on, and our midfield bossed the game, and produced some excellent football.
Herbie Kane was outstanding on his debut. looked the complete all round player, and was a class apart, closely followed by Rowe and Whiteman who also played very well.
Every player did their bit however, the central defenders coping brilliantly with a physical battle, the full backs working the flanks well, getting crosses in and getting forward, Andrew putting in a shot from distance that was a terrific effort.
Then up front we had the two amigos, Marquis and Wilks, two complete pillocks if you play against them, or support the opposition, but two players you can only admire if you are a Rover.
Run the channels, physical presence, and scoring goals, what more could we ask for. Trouble with a capital T, and the pace and work rate until he tired of Kiwomya alongside them wide, didn't give the Wycombe defence much respite.
A good performance as far as I am concerned, the pleasing thing In Grants case is that Wilks, Crawford and Kane look excellent loan acquisitions, if they are a sample of the quality of signings he brings to the club, things can only get better.
And we only need another 44 points for safety, how many seasons have we been able to say that after only 2 games.
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Crawford isn't a loan and is injured! After that performance from young Kane, he will have a job on getting back in.
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More often than not the earliest games in the season are disjointed and dull..
This was anything but.. not perfect, but as good as we can realistically expect on game day 2..
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Everyone in the team looked like they knew the system and their place within it. Never once did we look like that under Ferguson.
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When we win our 1st 2 games of a season we get promoted don’t we as has been mentioned in another thread.
Going up, Going up ???
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Alan, well done you spotted the deliberate mistake all by yourself.
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loved the way Whiteman and Kane covered each other, 1 went forward the other dropped in no need for a full tme def mid with this set up.
1 disapointment for me was Kiwomya, far too nesh ran about a lot but did very little when he had the ball, in fact did he have the ball? For me Blair or Copps for the front right position at the moment
Overall I was very happy with that performance
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On the subject of Whiteman, he looked better today than I have seen him for a while.
He seemed much more physical in his approach.
There was a foul he committed early on and the Wycombe number ten ran at him, no doubt having a go at him.
Ben stopped and squared up to him and straight away their player backed off.
Also good to see that we took ages to get back into position after each of our three goals.
Something that other teams have done against us on a regular basis.
We do appear to have added “a bit of an edge” to our game.
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Yes said at the time it makes a change for us to stop someone in their tracks like Whiteman did, yes the chest came out and he stood tall when the player came back at him and quickly changed his mind
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The only thing I noticed today, and it will improve as the season gets going, is that quite a few of our lads were struggling at about the 65/70 minute mark. Mason was cramping up badly and was eventually subbed and same with Mr Wilks. Kane's incredible work-rate slowed about this time, but my, what a debut.
Other than that very small thing and, taking due consideration of the opposition, there was lots to admire about that performance.
We were all hoping young Kane would not turn out to be another Kongolo, well he certainly answered that question. 2 solid tackles in the first few minutes had me watching him in more detail and he really did get about the pitch. Long may it continue.
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Alan I agree, I said in a post last week that playing that system needs players on the bench to come on in midfield, and that substitutions in games are most likely to be to midfielders, than players up front as was more the norm in the past.