Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: selby on October 20, 2018, 06:43:57 pm
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The games are coming thick and fast again, with this one being probably the most attractive league game of the lot, and probably the largest crowd of the season.
If we play well it could also be the best atmosphere of the season, with the Sunderland fans adding to the occasion travelling in their numbers.Lets hope it is just that, a great game, and an occasion we can look back on with fondness in future years.
Hopefully Kane will be fit after looking like he picked up a knock against Gillingham, who like Fleetwood singled him out for some special attention.
The game is now a 14 man game, the substitutes being as important as the starting 11, and with Crawford and Anderson we are looking better in that area, also I would expect Wright to come back in contention.
Sunderland are now looking what they should be in this division, heading for the top two and promotion, and seem to be getting their act together and more consistent.
Would you make any enforced changes?
Can we prove our credentials and take the points against everyone's favourites for automatic promotion.
Can our crowd rise to the occasion and make as much noise as the away fans will.
Lots to discuss, please have your say.
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Hopefully Marquis is ok. He came over to the bench at one point and appeared to be coughing up blood. The club doctor let him play on so probably he'll be ok.
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no
hopefully
probably not
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I hope Copps will be ok to feature in most of the game.
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Don’t forget Kane went off injured too
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I guess it depends on what Kanes injury is but he has three days recovery time so hopefully will be ok.
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Just hope we can start converting our chances or it will be a long night.
It will be a great atmosphere just hope we can thrive in it we need to get the first goal that will be the difference between winning and losing
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Just hope we can start converting our chances or it will be a long night.
It will be a great atmosphere just hope we can thrive in it we need to get the first goal that will be the difference between winning and losing
It will if we then keep a clean sheet. ;)
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I can sum up Tuesday in one word:
Cattermole
If he doesn't cripple someone in our middle 3 before half time, then we'll be lucky. Got yet another yellow today at Shrewsbury. Let's hope, for once, we have a good ref.
Number of issues for me:
Will we start to take our chances?
Will we defend better, particularly from set pieces?
Will Copps find it one game too many?
Lose on Tuesday and we could drop out the top 6 and we could find it difficult getting back up there.
Win and it's a whole new ball game and morale booster.
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I think we will lose Tuesday but will give them a good game. We are very dangerous going forward but conceding 9 goals in 3 games is a lot and a bit of a concern so I think Sunderland will have too much for us.
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If copps can't do Saturday & Tuesday then for me Crawford in for him, obviously Wright back in and i'd maybe find a space for J.Anderson in midfield for Blair maybe just to make us a little more physical.
If we've got our shooting boots on we could get a massive result and even if we haven't we'll give them a close game with lots of goals i'm sure
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It’s starting to look more and more that our defence needs a cool head and not just brawn , Butler is looking tired and beaten up matches and ANDREWS is erratic with his passing and often slow to get back into position leaving Butler with too much to do . Whiteman is another who forgets his abilities are limited and gets caught in possession too often in games . Over all against physical teams our defence or left floundering and weak . 7 goals at home in two games is plain enough to see.
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Tough test this, no shame if we lose really but I hope we don't of course. Wright has to come back in, Anderson wasn't good enough today for me. I hope Kane and Copps are both fit enough to play, otherwise I'd be bringing in Crawford and, if needs be, Taylor.
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Tough test this, no shame if we lose really but I hope we don't of course. Wright has to come back in, Anderson wasn't good enough today for me. I hope Kane and Copps are both fit enough to play, otherwise I'd be bringing in Crawford and, if needs be, Taylor.
If we lose it would be 4 points from a possible 15. Not exactly playoff form
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I didn't say anything about form though, I meant from the perspective of Sunderland being a very good side and easily a team you expect to see in the top 2/3 by the end of the season.
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It’s starting to look more and more that our defence needs a cool head and not just brawn , Butler is looking tired and beaten up matches and ANDREWS is erratic with his passing and often slow to get back into position leaving Butler with too much to do . Whiteman is another who forgets his abilities are limited and gets caught in possession too often in games . Over all against physical teams our defence or left floundering and weak . 7 goals at home in two games is plain enough to see.
That’s why we need McCullough. I know most people don’t want or will like to hear that but with him in the holding role we would not iMO be conceding as many goals.
Whiteman has been a relevation this season but he is better with the ball than he is without it as are ALL our midfielders and there lies our problem.
Great to watch and we will score goals and be royally entertained but the price we will pay is VERY FEW IF ANY CLEAN SHEETS.
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Surley the Barnsley game is the most attractive fixture to attend
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It’s starting to look more and more that our defence needs a cool head and not just brawn , Butler is looking tired and beaten up matches and ANDREWS is erratic with his passing and often slow to get back into position leaving Butler with too much to do . Whiteman is another who forgets his abilities are limited and gets caught in possession too often in games . Over all against physical teams our defence or left floundering and weak . 7 goals at home in two games is plain enough to see.
That’s why we need McCullough. I know most people don’t want or will like to hear that but with him in the holding role we would not iMO be conceding as many goals.
Whiteman has been a relevation this season but he is better with the ball than he is without it as are ALL our midfielders and there lies our problem.
Great to watch and we will score goals and be royally entertained but the price we will pay is VERY FEW IF ANY CLEAN SHEETS.
I like McCullough, but he doesn’t suit this system, Whiteman is much more dynamic in that position
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It’s starting to look more and more that our defence needs a cool head and not just brawn , Butler is looking tired and beaten up matches and ANDREWS is erratic with his passing and often slow to get back into position leaving Butler with too much to do . Whiteman is another who forgets his abilities are limited and gets caught in possession too often in games . Over all against physical teams our defence or left floundering and weak . 7 goals at home in two games is plain enough to see.
That’s why we need McCullough. I know most people don’t want or will like to hear that but with him in the holding role we would not iMO be conceding as many goals.
Whiteman has been a relevation this season but he is better with the ball than he is without it as are ALL our midfielders and there lies our problem.
Great to watch and we will score goals and be royally entertained but the price we will pay is VERY FEW IF ANY CLEAN SHEETS.
I like McCullough, but he doesn’t suit this system, Whiteman is much more dynamic in that position
Agreed Filo but the point I am making is we a vulnerable without the ball.
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Surley the Barnsley game is the most attractive fixture to attend
Not much attractive about Barnsley tbh.
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It’s starting to look more and more that our defence needs a cool head and not just brawn , Butler is looking tired and beaten up matches and ANDREWS is erratic with his passing and often slow to get back into position leaving Butler with too much to do . Whiteman is another who forgets his abilities are limited and gets caught in possession too often in games . Over all against physical teams our defence or left floundering and weak . 7 goals at home in two games is plain enough to see.
That’s why we need McCullough. I know most people don’t want or will like to hear that but with him in the holding role we would not iMO be conceding as many goals.
Whiteman has been a relevation this season but he is better with the ball than he is without it as are ALL our midfielders and there lies our problem.
Great to watch and we will score goals and be royally entertained but the price we will pay is VERY FEW IF ANY CLEAN SHEETS.
I like McCullough, but he doesn’t suit this system, Whiteman is much more dynamic in that position
Agreed Filo but the point I am making is we a vulnerable without the ball.
Probably correct, but the downside it would hinder our attacking threat
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Sixth in the league at this point in the season means we are not a bad side, and has been done with one of our best players missing (Rowe)who has the experience and skill to give us that little bit more ballance.
I myself Cannot see why McCullough could not be able to play in the side, this sudden not being able to cover ground never being brought to the for by any of our supporters in the past when he has played as a defensive midfielder, a position he has been man of the match in picked by the supporters on more than a couple of occasions.
His injury problems stopped him being a fixture here, but at Tranmere he looks over that and has not missed a game to my knowledge since he went there, and they have been solid, giving very few goals away since he signed for them.
Whether he wants to be here, or the manager wants him here, I would not know. but to my mind he would give us more options, cover more than one defensive position, and because of that would strengthen our present squad, and I would happily welcome him back in January if he continues to show the form he is in at Tranmere.
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The form of Whiteman is why. He's really kicked on in this team. He was excellent yesterday. I've been critical of him but McCann has got a lot out of him. Only grumble was him not getting a winner from his efforts late on.
Tough but a game this next one we are more than capable of winning. We are not a bad side.
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BYP, I agree about Whiteman playing well, in my opinion he is the most improved player in the squad from last season along with Mason, and is becoming a very important player in the system we play.
I am suggesting that Luke would strengthen the set up and give us a choice as a team, whether he, or the manager would want that is another question. But he is our player until the end of the season, and having watched us this season, I would have him back here in January.
I am not suggesting he is better or should replace Whiteman, far from it, but could compliment him in some games, or part of games.
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I’d have McCullough back as well. I’m not his biggest fan but he is a very different player to the midfielders we have at the moment and is an option to tighten things up when we need to.
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He is tailor made not to fit into the McCann 433 formation. The midfield three need to be highly mobile and able to get both up and down and out wide. Luke is many things but highly mobile is not one of them. His passing is also not strong enough to sit in the middle of that three.
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Back to the Sunderland game, at Shrewsbury the game changed when Sunderland Made substitutions early in the second half, one being Lynden Gooch late of this parish, who provided the cross for the first goal.
Their manager has tightened them up since arriving, and has recognised that they have had to be more streetwise in this division.
We will be able to compare our star Marquis with Maja, who is tying at the top of the scoring charts for this division on 9 goals with John, so a little sideshow there.
Adam Mcgeachy was given the star man status in the FL paper, although substituted after 57 minutes, so whether injured or not he made an impression on the reporter.
A good game is in prospect, one we will have to raise our game in to compete, and which we are well capable of doing.
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I’d have McCullough back as well. I’m not his biggest fan but he is a very different player to the midfielders we have at the moment and is an option to tighten things up when we need to.
Are the midfielders we have now that bad though, defensively i mean? for all our attacking Gillingham had 4-5 shots. One of the goals our striker lost his man is, that isn't an issue with our defenders or midfielders. The other two (i didn't have the right angle for the 1st admittedly) look to be mistakes from a stand in centre half who's never really let us down before.
To limit the opposition to so few shots is good defending. Personally don't think we need LM to tighten things up at all and if he wants to be a midfielder he's found his level. A few decent games for us when we were struggling doesn't make him good enough for a playoff chasing side, which we are now
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I’d have McCullough back as well. I’m not his biggest fan but he is a very different player to the midfielders we have at the moment and is an option to tighten things up when we need to.
Are the midfielders we have now that bad though, defensively i mean? for all our attacking Gillingham had 4-5 shots. One of the goals our striker lost his man is, that isn't an issue with our defenders or midfielders. The other two (i didn't have the right angle for the 1st admittedly) look to be mistakes from a stand in centre half who's never really let us down before.
To limit the opposition to so few shots is good defending. Personally don't think we need LM to tighten things up at all and if he wants to be a midfielder he's found his level. A few decent games for us when we were struggling doesn't make him good enough for a playoff chasing side, which we are now
I'm not suggesting he was needed yesterday. I know we didn't concede many shots yesterday, but how about at Rochdale when it was wave after wave of attacks?
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Whiteman is proving to be a cracking all round midfielder in my view. He’s not scared to get a foot in, but most impressive is what he does with the ball. The amount of incisive forward passes that cut out a number of the opposing players is becoming a big part of our play. Helped obviously by the good movement up top. It’s great to watch at the moment and they all seem to know what they’re doing.
Once again credit must go to McCann and the coaching staff for the work behind the scenes to get everyone so well drilled.
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Well, something's definately not right - 7 conceded in 2 home games, with so few shots on target and against pretty ordinary sides. Is there an element of 'not being switched on' when we play teams who we think we should beat?
It's got to be a combination of things, obviously, but there have been some glaring errors made, bordering on the lackadaisical which takes me back to the point I'm making above.
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I can sum up Tuesday in one word:
Cattermole
If he doesn't cripple someone in our middle 3 before half time, then we'll be lucky. Got yet another yellow today at Shrewsbury. Let's hope, for once, we have a good ref.
Number of issues for me:
Will we start to take our chances?
Will we defend better, particularly from set pieces?
Will Copps find it one game too many?
Lose on Tuesday and we could drop out the top 6 and we could find it difficult getting back up there.
Win and it's a whole new ball game and morale booster.
A number of answers to your issues:
We have scored six goals in the last 2 games;
All teams concede goals from set pieces, we are no worse than any other team;
Copps is on fire, arguably showing the best form of his amazing career.
Lose on Tuesday would be no cause for shame - Sunderland are the favourites to win this league and some people (no names) thought we didn’t have a strong squad at the start of this season. We might drop out of the top six but I’m optimistic we could get back in there.
Next?
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Next ......Is to win this match on Tuesday and for the lads not to freeze because of the name we are playing . It's Sunderland - to be respected , decent fans but let's face it they've done nowt for years .
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We didn’t freeze when we used to play the weeds in L1 and they (allegedly) are a much bigger name in football.
We have no reason to fear Sunderland any more than any other team in our division.
Anyone can beat anyone.
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Agree Hound, games like this should inspire the team and supporters, if they don't there is something wrong.
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.... and as Richie Wellens put it at Elland Road when that "weasel" Wise said "we would freeze like Rabbits in Headlights" - we are 11 men playing 11 Men and the 30000 plus in the Ground can make as much noise and be as hostile as they like but WE are simply playing 11 men not all of them !
We did well too - great result and a greta performance !
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one of the best laughs ever Wolfie, when Wise tried to stare our team down as they came out of the tunnel, and Greeny I think patted his head.
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Thanks for the answers, Pancho, but who's questions were you answering?
I'm well aware that we have scored 6 goals in our last 2 games, but that doesn't answer the first question. I was referring to our chances to goals scored and, although I didn't make it clear, I was referring more to our home games.
The stats of most teams above us would appear to contradict your answer to the second question.
And, for the third, I never asked whether Copps was on fire, I asked if Tuesday would prove a game too many for him. As I keep saying, he's only human, after all.
And I never inferred there would be any shame in losing on Tuesday.
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one of the best laughs ever Wolfie, when Wise tried to stare our team down as they came out of the tunnel, and Greeny I think patted his head.
He was a Chelsea weasel along with the then Chairman Ken Bates. Can’t believe they got any where near Leeds as there was no love lost between the two clubs in the late 60’s and early 70’s.
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Thanks for the answers, Pancho, but who's questions were you answering?
I'm well aware that we have scored 6 goals in our last 2 games, but that doesn't answer the first question. I was referring to our chances to goals scored and, although I didn't make it clear, I was referring more to our home games.
The stats of most teams above us would appear to contradict your answer to the second question.
And, for the third, I never asked whether Copps was on fire, I asked if Tuesday would prove a game too many for him. As I keep saying, he's only human, after all.
And I never inferred there would be any shame in losing on Tuesday.
How many goals have the teams above us conceded from set pieces Alan, compared to how many we've conceded?
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Vaya, how the hell do you expect me to answer that? Which makes a mockery of the original answer, also.
Where I am coming from, most of the team's above us have conceded fewer, therefore the probability is that they have conceded fewer from set pieces.
Look, let's not make a big thing of this one point - it's a discussion. Have a go at answering the three questions yourself.
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Alan, part of the attraction of our team this season is how good the games have been. I can see like me that you have enjoyed watching us this season, and part of the attraction is we have a rick in us.
Even the fleetwood game, we got mullered with the score, but not on the field. I think this season has been great to watch, and would have snatched your hand off to be where we are at the start of the season at this juncture.
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I can sum up Tuesday in one word:
Cattermole
If he doesn't cripple someone in our middle 3 before half time, then we'll be lucky. Got yet another yellow today at Shrewsbury. Let's hope, for once, we have a good ref.
Number of issues for me:
Will we start to take our chances?
Will we defend better, particularly from set pieces?
Will Copps find it one game too many?
Lose on Tuesday and we could drop out the top 6 and we could find it difficult getting back up there.
Win and it's a whole new ball game and morale booster.
That’s a bit dramatic. He’s hardly a hatchet man.
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In the last two home games we have conceeded 7 goals.
3 from set pieces, 1 from the penalty spot and 3 from open play.
We have scored three, 2 from set pieces and one from open play.
In both games we have been entertaining we should have scored more goals mostly from open play then instead of 1 point from two home games it should have been 6 points, minimum of 4.
We must try and improve conceding goals from set plays and it’s opposition defenders that scored. On Saturday marked by a striker.
Teams do score from set plays and we may not help ourselves with the overall height of our squad.
Copps was good on Saturday and if he had been more accurate with his shooting should have had two goals. Both chances were fired straight at the keeper. Yet he is providing most assists for the chances we take.
The good thing is the three substitutes on Saturday all contributed to our fight back so if Copps does have to come off on Tuesday night we should be ok. I saw a comment from a poster that we conceeded when he went off again. But really don’t know how he would have stopped the goal from the corner plus we had already conceeded two with him on.
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I can sum up Tuesday in one word:
Cattermole
If he doesn't cripple someone in our middle 3 before half time, then we'll be lucky. Got yet another yellow today at Shrewsbury. Let's hope, for once, we have a good ref.
Number of issues for me:
Will we start to take our chances?
Will we defend better, particularly from set pieces?
Will Copps find it one game too many?
Lose on Tuesday and we could drop out the top 6 and we could find it difficult getting back up there.
Win and it's a whole new ball game and morale booster.
That’s a bit dramatic. He’s hardly a hatchet man.
He is officially the "dirtiest" Player in the Premiership era according to this :
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stats-show-sunderlands-lee-cattermole-13901864
Discipline in 271 Games
Yellow cards 88
Red cards 7
Fouls 422
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That’s a bit dramatic. He’s hardly a hatchet man.
Can we revisit this after Tuesday's game?
Not dramatic at all, for me he's the nearest thing to Joey Barton. Can be a game changer but can also be a nasty piece of work. I have knowledge of him from his Middlesbrough days, through a late friend of mine, and I can tell you he was an a**hole then, so why should he be any different now?
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“Dirty” players these days just aren’t that dirty are they. You can’t get away with it any more.
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If it is just down to bookings, I raise you Whiteman.
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Seems Herbie's a doubt for the game which isn't ideal so not sure whether Anderson or Crawford will be drafted in.
Both did OK for me in the minutes they had on Saturday. Anderson has a more physical stature and can get about the pitch and Crawford perhaps has more creative guile.
Not sure who I'd go for but whomever McCann puts out there needs to be switched on from the off. Let's go at them and see what happens.
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Well, something's definately not right - 7 conceded in 2 home games, with so few shots on target and against pretty ordinary sides. Is there an element of 'not being switched on' when we play teams who we think we should beat?
It's got to be a combination of things, obviously, but there have been some glaring errors made, bordering on the lackadaisical which takes me back to the point I'm making above.
Alan going from memory 2 Fleetwood goals were from poor/non existant marking from corners 1 was a pen poor decision by Marco and the other a total cockup by Joe, on Saturday you had a superb strike from 25 yards past an unsighted keeper, a poor attempt at defending by Tom and another bit of poor defending by JM from a corner. I make that 6 out of 7 caused by our poor individual defending. It's not often that that many end up in attempts on or actual goals.
My main concern is as it has been since the days of The Corporal, poor defending from set pieces, but generally we have defended well so far this season as well as having a bit of luck on our side for a change.
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I can sum up Tuesday in one word:
Cattermole
If he doesn't cripple someone in our middle 3 before half time, then we'll be lucky. Got yet another yellow today at Shrewsbury. Let's hope, for once, we have a good ref.
Number of issues for me:
Will we start to take our chances?
Will we defend better, particularly from set pieces?
Will Copps find it one game too many?
Lose on Tuesday and we could drop out the top 6 and we could find it difficult getting back up there.
Win and it's a whole new ball game and morale booster.
just checked Cattermole out he's had 7 yellow cards in his last 9 league games so we could have had a sweep on what minute he gets booked
he's scored 3 goals all way from home this season 2 in one game which caused Jeff Stelling to have an orgasm on TV when he scored 2 in one game -- before that he had scored 2 in nearly 200 games
strangely Slumberland's last 3 league matches have all been away so this will be 4 in a row so to put it mildly they will all know their jobs
https://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=43076
just wonder if these 2 might have a date somewhere in London in May ?
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Well, game just finished. Overall we were the better team. Finishing let us down but having said that Sunderland defending was excellent at times. We ran out of steam a bit the last quarter whereas Sunderland with their mega millions parachute payment, could bring on high quality players to see the game out. Their goal had a slice of luck about it, but we weren’t outclassed and in fact, another day we get a point or more.
Most telling was the fact that we kept 4000 Sunderland fans quiet for the majority of that game. They are a good team and should be promoted. We can match them though.
It was a really good match and I’m dead proud of the lads tonight.
One thing about the ref. He bottled a lot. I think the booking count ended equal or thereabouts but there was some nasty stuff from some of their players. He booked a couple of our lads for really soft things yet missed a lot of cynical pushes and kicks.
Still, there we are. Onwards. We didn’t disgrace ourselves and I’m full of optimism despite the result.
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It was a very good performance in terms of effort and committment but, as free scoring as we have been our end product and decision making was shocking. We absolutely bottled that game IMO. Alfie May and Jermaine Anderson :headbang:
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Second half we faded but for the first hour we were excellent. You have to consider the team we were up against. They were rattled. I don’t think our decision making was shocking at all. Explain?
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He who hesitates. We hesitated at times and they didn't. Summed up in the way we didn't take our two one on one's and the way they pounced on our mistake.
We also hesitated when in good positions on the edge of their box in the 2nd half.
They have the work ethic, the intelligence, guile and cynicism to be successful. We are not there yet but need to apply the same and learn from how Sunderland managed the game.
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Well, game just finished. Overall we were the better team. Finishing let us down but having said that Sunderland defending was excellent at times. We ran out of steam a bit the last quarter whereas Sunderland with their mega millions parachute payment, could bring on high quality players to see the game out. Their goal had a slice of luck about it, but we weren’t outclassed and in fact, another day we get a point or more.
Most telling was the fact that we kept 4000 Sunderland fans quiet for the majority of that game. They are a good team and should be promoted. We can match them though.
It was a really good match and I’m dead proud of the lads tonight.
One thing about the ref. He bottled a lot. I think the booking count ended equal or thereabouts but there was some nasty stuff from some of their players. He booked a couple of our lads for really soft things yet missed a lot of cynical pushes and kicks.
Still, there we are. Onwards. We didn’t disgrace ourselves and I’m full of optimism despite the result.
That is a pretty fair summary mate.
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We played well but i don't think we were the better team. In the second half especially Sunderland kicked on and did a great job of making life difficult for us. Don't get me wrong, I was happy with our performance tonight aside from the finishing but i do think they were a better side overall.
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Second half we faded but for the first hour we were excellent. You have to consider the team we were up against. They were rattled. I don’t think our decision making was shocking at all. Explain?
I thought first half we were excellent but second half doubts, nerves or both set in a bit. Coupled with Sunderland tightening up and we never looked like scoring.
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Second half we faded but for the first hour we were excellent. You have to consider the team we were up against. They were rattled. I don’t think our decision making was shocking at all. Explain?
He who hesitates. We hesitated at times and they didn't. Summed up in the way we didn't take our two one on one's and the way they pounced on our mistake.
We also hesitated when in good positions on the edge of their box in the 2nd half.
They have the work ethic, the intelligence, guile and cynicism to be successful. We are not there yet but need to apply the same and learn from how Sunderland managed the game.
Exactly what he said. Absolutely cacked ourselves when it mattered. Shooting positions blasted over, one on ones missed, shots scuffed (Marquis) good forwards take at least 2 of those chances. One that sticks in my mind in particular is where Andrew played the ball in behind and put Marquis through, defender behind him yet manages to get a challenge in?
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The one on ones, Wilks is the only player with the strength and speed in our side to make that chance, and the pull back on him took two to three yards off him allowing the goalkeeper time to close him down. No foul and he could have gone around the keeper, as it was he did all he could and it was a good save.
Blair had time and space to go around the keeper, opened his body up because he didn't trust his left foot, and made it easy for the keeper to go the right way.
Both had the pace to get away from defenders, but the ease of the chances were totally different in what the player had to do to score.
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man of the match poll now up: https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=267704
(apologies for it being so late)
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... a bit like Numbers 6 8 AND 17 'S tackles maybe :woohoo: