Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: The Red Baron on November 05, 2018, 04:10:07 pm
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https://www.instagram.com/jimmymac_11/?hl=en
I see that the FA is "investigating" comments made by McClean on Instagram following Stoke's game at the weekend. It seems McClean (who chooses not to wear a poppy symbol on his shirt) was given a rough time of it by some of his own fans and responded by calling them cavemen (you can see the post at the link above).
Now, on the one hand I accept McClean's decision not to wear the poppy, something he has been consistent about. I would point out to him that plenty of Irish people fought and died for the Allied side in both World Wars, but I appreciate he is making a particular point.
If you read what he says, I struggle to see how it could be deemed offensive or insulting. The term caveman is often used to describe people thought to hold outdated views, and if thought offensive would land a lot of "progressives" in the dock. I also think that if a footballer is abused by his own fans he's entitled to express some disapproval in public.
I am no fan of McClean: anyone who boasts approvingly about listening to music glorifying the IRA, or who chooses to quote a convicted IRA terrorist, doesn't come very high on my list of favourite people. However I think this is a matter to be dealt with between him, Stoke City and their supporters, and the FA should butt out.
(Incidentally I don't think Stoke City covered themselves in glory here. McClean's objections to the poppy symbol are well known, so was there really any need for them to put out a statement last week drawing attention to the matter?)
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This is an inevitable situation that we have landed in. By corporatizing the poppy (ie by attaching it to groups, such as football teams) you inevitably highlight people who choose (for WHATEVER reason) to opt out.
Wearing a poppy is supposed to be a positive action. It was never supposed to be a political act, but it is becoming one. That is deeply sad, and very divisive.
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He hates Britain but is happy to be paid in British pounds. Scum of the highest order, I hope some one breaks his leg.
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He hates Britain but is happy to be paid in British pounds. Scum of the highest order, I hope some one breaks his leg.
Wasn’t his dad killed by a British soldier? I can see why he doesn’t want to wear on. Matic didn’t wear one either.
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Can't see the problem, it would be nice if everyone did but it's his choice and that should be respected
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He hates Britain but is happy to be paid in British pounds. Scum of the highest order, I hope some one breaks his leg.
Wasn’t his dad killed by a British soldier? I can see why he doesn’t want to wear on. Matic didn’t wear one either.
No, although some people from the estate where he grew up were killed on Bloody Sunday.
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Can't see the problem, it would be nice if everyone did but it's his choice and that should be respected
I agree, but that's not really the point at issue.
The point is, footballer takes a particular stance, he gets it in the neck for it from a section of his club's supporters. The footballer hits back, but not in an offensive or abusive manner, and the FA weighs in.
The FA has already shown poor judgement of late bringing charges against Jose Mourinho that were thrown out (IMO for perfectly valid reasons) by the independent commission. I think they are showing poor judgement again by getting involved in this. It makes one think that the FA compliance department either hasn't got enough to do or has it's priorities wrong (eg their total lack of interest in the long-running farce at Blackpool.)
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He hates Britain but is happy to be paid in British pounds. Scum of the highest order, I hope some one breaks his leg.
Wasn’t his dad killed by a British soldier? I can see why he doesn’t want to wear on. Matic didn’t wear one either.
Matic didn't, and didn't attract similar hostility. I would point out that the back story is different to McClean's but I also don't recall Manchester United putting out a statement last week and hence drawing attention to the matter.
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Quite agree mate,as you say stoke handled it wrong 2, as far as what he is supposed to have said to the fans if they can't handle that they need something better in there lives to do
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James McClean seems to thrive on the conflict he causes every year, I wouldn’t be surprised if his next port of call after Stoke City is Celtic
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Seems that someone at the FA has seen sense.
https://mobile.twitter.com/PAdugout/status/1059513611503181828/photo/1
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James McClean seems to thrive on the conflict he causes every year, I wouldn’t be surprised if his next port of call after Stoke City is Celtic
Seems like he might find some kindred spirits there.
https://mobile.twitter.com/TheLewisMcinnes/status/1057779691996749825/video/1
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He hates Britain but is happy to be paid in British pounds. Scum of the highest order, I hope some one breaks his leg.
I hope you or anyone else you know has never smoked cheap smuggled fags.
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He's nothing but an immature attention seeking Kitson.
He should play for that vile club celtic where he would fit right in
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He hates Britain but is happy to be paid in British pounds. Scum of the highest order, I hope some one breaks his leg.
I hope you or anyone else you know has never smoked cheap smuggled fags.
Don't smoke.
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Wearing a poppy is a personal choice. It’s worth pointing out that there was a proportion of WW1 and WW2 veterans who refused to wear a poppy too.
Regarding McLean, I completely disagree with him but I support his right to express his opinion.
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Wearing a poppy is a personal choice. It’s worth pointing out that there was a proportion of WW1 and WW2 veterans who refused to wear a poppy too.
Regarding McLean, I completely disagree with him but I support his right to express his opinion.
I'd say that by not wearing a poppy he's not expressing an opinion at all, it's only the poppy nazis who've made him have to express one.
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Wearing a poppy is a personal choice. It’s worth pointing out that there was a proportion of WW1 and WW2 veterans who refused to wear a poppy too.
Regarding McLean, I completely disagree with him but I support his right to express his opinion.
I'd say that by not wearing a poppy he's not expressing an opinion at all, it's only the poppy nazis who've made him have to express one.
I'd say you retract that obscene comment of 'poppy nazis'
What a f**king ridiculously obscene comment .
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I'd welcome an alternative that covers the people who take a noble idea, distort it to their own perverted ideology and then seek to impose that ideology on others to the point of wanting injury upon those who won't accept it.
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Whether there is an alternative word to use or not, coming on armistice weekend “poppy nazis” is an inconsiderate and offensive phrase to use under the circumstances.
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I'd welcome an alternative that covers the people who take a noble idea, distort it to their own perverted ideology and then seek to impose that ideology on others to the point of wanting injury upon those who won't accept it.
I don't think the Nazis had many noble ideas. It is a poorly used phrase I'm afraid.
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I’m sure that Glynn didn’t use the phrase to cause offence or to demean the importance of Remembrance Sunday.
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OK. I'll retract poppy nazi and replace it with poppy KGB. As they were on our side in the war I presume that's OK?
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I’m sure that Glynn didn’t use the phrase to cause offence or to demean the importance of Remembrance Sunday.
No I didn't intend any disrespect to Remembrance Sunday, just disrespect to those who in turn disrespect the dead by using them to harass others. I used it because they should be fought against, just as the fallen fought against other forms of fascism.
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I can remember school in early 80s wearing a poppy as my dad always brought the family them and getting laughed at off the other kids as hardly anyone did. It's a shame that it's become more of a corporate thing than a personal choice. I was reading yesterday about the first 20 or so years after the first world war when they held fancy dress balls and they celebrated surviving and the parts played but these fell out of favour and it became a more solemn event we recognise today
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Isn't the concept of the poppy a symbolisation of freedom (of choice), so not wearing one is the Individuals right allowed by the very poppy itself.. (heard this debate on the radio)
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That's the principle Adam.
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Unfortunately, having freedom also gives you the right to be a Kitson.
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As a ex servicemen who saw active service in the first gulf war this really does make my blood boil..Not because he refuses to wear a poppy that is his choice but because it's being turned into a political side show...I wear a poppy to remember the people who gave there lives while in the service of our great nation,whether that be the first world war,second,falklands or even servicemen who died in the course of service during peace time..
These people gave there lives so we could have this freedom of choice to wear a poppy or not,he through his own circumstances decides not too and that's fair enough,its not compulsory but a choice...
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WC.
Excellent post. That pretty much wraps the whole thing up.
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He hates Britain but is happy to be paid in British pounds. Scum of the highest order, I hope some one breaks his leg.
I hope you or anyone else you know has never smoked cheap smuggled fags.
What a strange and unsettling comment for Axholme to make
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He hates Britain but is happy to be paid in British pounds. Scum of the highest order, I hope some one breaks his leg.
I hope you or anyone else you know has never smoked cheap smuggled fags.
What a strange and unsettling comment for Axholme to make
I know where the majority of the profits from smuggled fags goes. And I bet that most of the people who buy them thinking they're sticking one to the government would choke on them if they knew who they were really funding.
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A few years ago I decide to stop buying a poppy for remembrance day. I've now gone fully over to refusing to wear one even if given it for free and I suppose this gives me an excuse to explain that. (Having said that a Serbian refusing to wear a poppy and then having apparent indifference to WW1 seems a bit rich to me, I mean he might as well have had a black hand in place of the poppy).
anyway all my reasons can all fall under the heading: It's about remembering the catastrophe of WW1 and trying to make sure it never happens again... but no-one does that anymore.
1. Ok so now wearing a poppy for a fortnight is a uniform of conformality and anyone who disobeys is angrily singled out (and yes the Fascists would admire that level of controlling the populace wouldn't they, it doesn't take a political genius to figure that out). That now means the majority of people wearing or telling others to wear poppies are not actually remembering or reflecting on anything and are just doing something they think they're suppose to do.
I won't put a number on it but if you think in your own head about this. What percentage of poppy wearers this year would know: Which years WW1 took place in, At least 4 countries on either side of the conflict, At least 2 leaders or heads of state of those countries at the time of the conflict (UK had 3 during so should be easy). and whether the Nazis were or weren't in power (50/50 Question).
Using a trivial analogy I would say it would be roughly the same sort of numbers who wear NY Yankees hats and don't know any current player,any former players, what sport it is or that it even is a sport.
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2. Of those that do know the answers to the very bare basics of WW1 history. The vast majority I've encountered usually still refuse to learn any lessons from it and wear the poppy like a football shirt. "We won, We beat the German Kraut Sausage munching bosh, Just like in '66 and just like when Farage shows Merkel whose boss with Brexit" (I know not everyone who wears a poppy thinks like this but everyone who thinks like this wears a poppy and there's about 17.4 million of them). The lessons of WW1 aren't Britannia rules the waves no-one messes with us or they get it! The lessons should be let's never ever again have such a needless loss of young lives for absolutely no reason.
3. I have an attitude towards the people who served on both sides of the conflict in WW1 that is similar to how I feel about those that suffered the holocaust in WW2. Its difficult to comprehend how we as an entire species even managed to come up with that as an idea, If you were to come up with the worst nightmare you could ever think of you'd still have to times it by 10 to get anywhere near close and not just a few but millions and millions actually lived through it... as a young person might say WTF!
So the money from selling poppies going to those people no-one could ever have an issue with surely. However, those soldiers are not around anymore and the money just goes to people who joined the military voluntarily as a career and the nightmare of trench warfare no longer exists and it's been replaced with press a button to eviscerate a middle eastern village type warfare (I suppose you might get repetitive strain injury). The money once given to the PTSD and mustard gas flashbacks victims of WW1 are now given to competitors in Prince Harry "Worthy" disabled people Olympics.
That's not a charity I prioritize personally (fair enough if YOU do) and resent being pressured into giving money to Prince Harry's vanity project that glorifies Patriotic Warfare when that is almost the exact opposite of what I think money given in remembrance of WW1 should go towards.
Thanks for listening/reading
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If you are wondering what I replaced the pointless poppy with in order to remember and reflect on those forced into action in WW1 it was this:
A weekend of Telly:
> Days that shook the World: Franz Ferdinand Assassination (45min Documentary)
> 37 Days To War (2 part Mini-Series About the lead up to WW1, It's about 3 Hours)
> All Quiet on the Western Front (1930 Hollywood Film about life in the trenches, based on a German book. Probably about 2 hours)
> World War One In Colour (Channel 5 Mini-series narrated by Kenneth Branagh.10 Episodes - Only watched 3 1/2 though)*
+ Random episode of Blackadder goes forth on Gold
> First World War The Final hours (I think that's what it was called anyway - It's a new thing on the BBC Iplayer about the negotiations that brought about the 11 of the 11 of the 11 of the 11 ending)
> Hitler: The Rise of Evil (2 part mini-series about Hitlers rise from Soldier to Leader set mainly in the inter war period and starring Robert Carlyle as Hitler)
> Downfall (2004 German film about Hitler's bunker and the end of the European war)
From princips single shot to hitlers single shot In 7 Docu-Dramas
*World War One In Colour got a bit samey:
Episode 1 :The schillfen plan and other interesting stuff
Episode 2 :A variety of battles in both east and west
Episode 3 :Trench warfare begins - Everyone gets needlessly slaughtered
Episode 4 : Everyone gets needlessly slaughtered
Episode 5 : Everyone gets needlessly slaughtered
Episode 6 : Everyone gets needlessly slaughtered
Episode 7 : Everyone gets needlessly slaughtered
Episode 8 : Everyone gets needlessly slaughtered
Episode 9 : Everyone gets needlessly slaughtered
Episode 10 :Everyone gets needlessly slaughtered. Germany surrenders
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You ought to watch They Shall Not Get Old too. It's brilliant.
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Yeah heard good things about that I'll have to get it watched