Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: BillyStubbsTears on December 16, 2018, 04:03:24 pm
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We're in the middle of the worst political crisis in three generations.
We have a Government that has no idea how to pull us out of the hole we are in.
We have the weakest PM for a century.
We have a Tory party tearing itself apart in public.
We have over half of the Tory backbenchers publicly wanting the PM to be ousted.
When has there EVER been a more helpful political environment for an Opposition to be miles ahead in the polls?
https://mobile.twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1074306394575249409
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You are right Billy, it's clear that many voters don't feel either party represents them - because they are not right-wing enough.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/08/01/where-most-fertile-ground-new-party?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=new_party
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Wilts
What was clear from the 2017 election was that Labour has a set of domestic policies which have significant attraction to a broad swathe of the population.
My concern, ever since Corbyn's deification, has been that his stance on foreign policy issues would undermine that attraction.
The fact that, in this environment, Corbyn is still lagging May by double digits in polls of who would make the better PM ought to make every supporter of the Left stop and think. But, those of us who do so tend to find a torrent of abuse poured over our heads.
It is a f**king bizarre personality cult.
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Yep I was a massive Corbyn supporter prior to and following the last election but have been underwhelmed to say the least by his doings since then.
He's had several open goals and missed them all. Or he's been absent.
Even at last week's PMQ's he could have jumped all over the rubbish the Maybot was spouting but stuck to his script.
I'd have Kier Starmer replace him who would have a broader appeal and talks sense.
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Billy, the last time this came up the poll broke down the voting intentions into leavers and remainers. Labour had big support among remainers but very little with leavers. The Tories had a more even split although favouring leave.
It's nothing at all to do with foreign policy or even other domestic policies. People who want to leave the EU wont vote labour because, despite what you and Andrew Gwyne say, they belive Labour want to stay in the EU. That's why TM always mentions it at PMQ's.
Why do you think the government has spent hundreds of thousand of pounds of taxpayers money on an MI6 troll psyops company to plant disinformation about Corbyn in the press? And why do you think the English press hasn't covered it?
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/tory-minister-mislead-parliament-over-13738951
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Billy, the last time this came up the poll broke down the voting intentions into leavers and remainers. Labour had big support among remainers but very little with leavers. The Tories had a more even split although favouring leave.
It's nothing at all to do with foreign policy or even other domestic policies. People who want to leave the EU wont vote labour because, despite what you and Andrew Gwyne say, they belive Labour want to stay in the EU. That's why TM always mentions it at PMQ's.
Why do you think the government has spent hundreds of thousand of pounds of taxpayers money on an MI6 troll psyops company to plant disinformation about Corbyn in the press? And why do you think the English press hasn't covered it?
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/tory-minister-mislead-parliament-over-13738951
Sorry if I'm being thick... but is Brexit not foreign policy?...
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Wilts
Go and look at the polls.
Labour had two step drops in poll support over the past year.
March, following Corbyn's idiotic response to Salisbury.
July, following the grinding anti-Semitism shambles.
Frankly, I'm not massively bothered by your interpretation of what Labour's failure to convince the electorate is or isn't down to. The numbers are there. If you're not prepared to engage with them, there's not much point discussing it.
I'm perfectly well aware of the psy-ops story. It's disgraceful, but not unexpected. And the problem is, that it is not recycling lies. It's recycling established truths. If Corbyn and Milne didnt have a many years-long track record of being on the side of Russia and Putin in every single foreign policy issue, from Kosovo, through NATO policy, Ukraine, chemical weapons in Syria and Salisbury, to Brexit, there wouldn't be fertile soil for their highlighted stories to grown in.
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RedJ
Yes. And again, on that topic, Corbyn manages to turn a natural strength into an own goal.
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By the way, here's the polling evidence that I was talking about.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Uk2022polling15average.png
Tell yourself all you want, Wilts, that it's nothing to do with foreign policy. But if you're going to be honest and open in thinking about this, look when the two big drops in Labour support have happened. Both at times in which Corbyn was capturing news headlines for his infantile foreign policy stances.
Those two indulgences are the reason Labour are behind the most inept governing party in living memory.
But hey, I'm sure I'm wrong, and it's the world being unfair to Corbyn, who only wants nice things and peace.
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Billy wont agree I know but the reality is the British Public don't believe that the Labour party is capable themselves of coming up with any kind of alternative.
They see even more confusion from them as they do from the Tories,people don't know what Labours position actually is.They know they don't agree with the deal presented but not what there alternative is which may actually have a chance to be negotiated to conclusion..
Like the Tories it depends on which front bench spokesman is speaking at the time,they hear snippets of what Labour want but people rightly don't believe the EU would agree to the vast majority of it..
May's public popularity rating last week is now the highest since the election,thats quite unbelievable and the reason for that is simple.The public are starting to believe that whilst the deal is far from ideal,they believe she is doing her best to get the best deal she can for the Country.Whilst Corbyn and Labour are only acting like whats best for there Political party...
When a government is in as much disarray as this one,it should be a open goal for the opposition but they have the equivalent striker as Prince Moncriefe who keeps missing..
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I like Labour's policies and the work JC has put into them, and I like that the party is more socialist/left wing; but I can see the writing on the wall if/when he leads Labour into the next generation - a lot of Labour voters will not vote labour with him in charge, for whatever reason, simple as that. The party needs to recognise this and replace him if they want a serious chance of getting into power. I like JC as well; I think he is honourable, consistent and can truly empathise with the working class and anyone "worse off" than him, but it doesn't change that he is unelectable. Labour could even keep him on the front bench, just not as leader of the party.