Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: bobjimwilly on December 17, 2018, 06:39:40 pm
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She didn't seem happy after JC announced this :lol:
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1074726533766504448
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Reported that if she doesn't grant time for that then he's going to table a vote of no confidence in the government.
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Sweet Jesus what a f**k up.
The DUP have said they're not supporting this move, but voting for May, The ERG won't vote for it and will vote for May.
May is on the ropes and Corbyn offers her an out. A way to have the confidence of Parliament expressed in her.
And even if it DOES pass, it means nothing.
I do sometimes wonder if he is a f**king plant, whose aim is to balls up every promising Labour situation.
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So 117 Tory MPs register a vote of no confidence in May as their Leader (including of course as their PM) and lose and are miffed as hell
Then a few days later they will presumably NOT register a Vote of no confidence in her as their PM !
Its not as if it is a Vote of Confidence in them and their Party which they would of course vote against
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So 117 Tory MPs register a vote of no confidence in May as their Leader (including of course as their PM) and lose and are miffed as hell
Then a few days later they will presumably NOT register a Vote of no confidence in her as their PM !
Its not as if it is a Vote of Confidence in them and their Party which they would of course vote against
My enemies enemy is my friend.....
They fear an election most likely and given they want Brexit, their only choice now is to baxk May.
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It's a cheap stunt destined to fail,which he knew before he tabled it and proves he's not fit to be even considered as a pm of this country.. An embarrassment to his party and if you want to know why in last weeks figures, May's public popularity is the highest since the election.. That's him right there...
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Time to sack the lot, have a general election for a completely new parliament, with every sitting MP banned from standing for election again for 20 years. And the same with the members of the House of Lords.
The people of this country have only given them one job to do and they have shown that they are completely incapable of doing it.
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Clever tactics from Corbyn.
This is a precursor move, to raise a VoC in May.
It will lead on to a vote of confidence in the government under the terms of the Fixed Term Parliament Act.
Pressure on the Tory dissenters to hold a consistent position.
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Clever tactics from Corbyn.
This is a precursor move, to raise a VoC in May.
It will lead on to a vote of confidence in the government under the terms of the Fixed Term Parliament Act.
Pressure on the Tory dissenters to hold a consistent position.
That's how I read it as well. When the Tories give her a vote of confidence AGAIN and then she comes back and her deal fails to get through Parliament AGAIN, Corbyn will be in a good position.
Or they don't entertain the vote at all and May looks scared.
I could have it all wrong and he could fumble it, in which case he'll look a reight tit, but as of now it looks like a canny move.
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Tories again showing their true colours, putting party before Country, how can 117 MP’s vote to savk her as their party leader, i.e. not fit for purpose, but then vote for her to lead the Country, f**king hypocrites the lot of em
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But the Tory rebels will NOT vote against May when it means strengthening Labour.
It's nothing to do with their consistency. It's about their priorities.
You call a vote of confidence only when you know you have a chance to wound or kill off the opponent. This one will do nothing but strengthen her. Absolutely stupid.
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So the question is:
Does May have the confidence to hold the vote of confidence in herself or if she doesn't can the HofC have confidence in her?
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But the Tory rebels will NOT vote against May when it means strengthening Labour.
It's nothing to do with their consistency. It's about their priorities.
You call a vote of confidence only when you know you have a chance to wound or kill off the opponent. This one will do nothing but strengthen her. Absolutely stupid.
So in effect their priorities are the best interests of their party, and not the best interests of the Country
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Yep.
As was predictable from two years ago.
An example. I have a very intelligent friend who is having his mid-life crisis as a Momentum member. He regularly berates me for not supporting the Brexit path that leads to a Labour Govt.
He wants an ERG Hard Brexit because it will wreak economic carnage and make the Tories unelectable for a generation. Then we can go marching off to a Socialist Utopia.
I've tried to gently, and not-so-gently point out that a Socialist Government inheriting an economy that has shrunk by 10% is not my preferred outcome. For which, I'm accused of being a comfortable, middle class Blairite.
It's enough to make you weep.
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This makes me so mad.. Whether your a Tory or labour supporter the position we are in is beyond Party politics, it's what's best for the Country... It's people like the above who make Labour unelectable and fail to hold the government to account..
How anybody can claim these are clever tactics from Corbyn is beyond me, in one stroke he has reunited unionists, and hard line brexiteers behind a pm who was on her arse..You only go down the no confidence route when you know the outcome.. Turkeys don't vote for Xmas.. I'm a rare thing on here, a Tory supporter.. And I'm grateful that Corbyn is across the bench, I really am...
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It is a no risk option for Corbyn.
Labour knew that May would react as she has. The inconsistency in the positions of the DUP and ERG have been fully demonstrated. They were always going to support the government position in public.
Sometimes an action is not directed to a winning position at the outset. It is part of a longer game.
If you can't see that, then maybe you have not seen the whole picture in the political game!
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Corbyn is testing the water for a more significant no confidence vote against the government. He knows that he must win any no confidence vote against the government because, if they were to lose, the Labour Party are obliged to ‘look into’ other options including a second referendum, which is the last thing he wants.
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Albie
I'm afraid that is the line that comes from starting from an assumption of Corbynite Infallibility.
The real issue here is that Corbyn's inner circle (by which I mean Corbyn, Milne and McCluskey) fundamentally want us to leave the EU. Every words they had ever uttered on the subject up to 2016, and every word since then screams that out. Throughout their careers they have castigated the EU as a rich man's club that acts as a bulwark against socialism. Their foreign policy is based on two principles:
1) Western Capitalism the Great Economic Problem in the world. The EU is a key stone in the wall of Western Capitalism. Therefore the EU is on the wrong side and should be opposed.
2) American foreign policy is the great threat to peace in the world. Russia is the biggest counterbalance to that. Therefore Russia must be supported and enemies of Russia must be opposed. The EU strongly acts as a barrier against Russian foreign policy being wielded in Europe. Therefore the EU is on the wrong side and should be opposed.
Go and read ANYTHING that any of those three ever wrote or said on those topics, other than when they had to mumble support for the EU during the referendum campaign. That background is why Corbyn was on Westminster Green at dawn on the morning after the referendum screaming tha we had to trigger Art. 50 immediately. Getting us out of the EU is one of his two key foreign policy dreams. The other one being getting us out of NATO.
You HAVE to start from that foundation if you're going to understand what is going on at the moment. Cut through the rest of the bullshit and start there.
Corbyn does not want a second referendum. The overwhelming number of his MPs, party members and Labour party voters DO want a second referendum. He was boxed into a corner at Conference in September, when Conference passed a resolution demanding that, if the party were unable to force an early General Election, they would campaign for a Second Referendum.
If Corbyn tables a motion of no confidence in the GOVERNMENT, and loses, he has blown the chance of forcing a GE. So his party would have to campaign for a second referendum. That is an outcome that Corbyn cannot countenance. So he will not push for a NC vote against the Government, because he knows he will lose it.
So, the vote against May is a bit of political theatre. Appear to be taking up the cudgels against the Govt, when in reality, you are avoiding the real fight, because you know what the result of that would be.
I am sick to the back teeth of well-meaning left-leaning people being bewitched by Corbyn and not looking at what the deeper drives are here. You are being deceived and played.
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HA.
Thank you. You summed up my ramble in 2 lines.
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Corbyn might have misjudged the situation, but then you can rely on May to score an own goal by refusing to allow time for it to happen and get it over with - which makes it look as if she's just as big a coward about this vote as the Brexit one.
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BST,
So to be clear, are you saying Labour should move a motion of no confidence in the government, or not?
If the answer is no, because it would not succeed, why do you assume a new referendum in June/July 2019 would deliver a different outcome to no deal under the May default fallback?
A new referendum needs an Act of Parliament. There are not the numbers in favour to deliver that, at the moment. After an Act was passed, the minimum time to organise a ref is 22 weeks or so. Well past the current March deadline to exit.
The idea that I am being "deceived and played" is a convenient fiction from your standpoint. I start from an understanding of the numbers constraint alone.
You might be interested in the analysis from Vernon Bogdanor in the Guardian;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/18/theresa-may-not-safe-conservative-party-mutiny
Please do not get lost inside your own assumptions. Always best to triangulate them in a reality check!
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Corbyn might have misjudged the situation, but then you can rely on May to score an own goal by refusing to allow time for it to happen and get it over with - which makes it look as if she's just as big a coward about this vote as the Brexit one.
Hope she does just that !
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It's not cowardice from May.
She'd upping the ante.
She's saying to Corbyn, "No, you're not having your political theatre, pointless vote of NC in ME. So, the ball's back in your court. The next move of a strong and principled Leader of the Opposition is to call a vote of NC in the GOVERNMENT. Ready when you are."
But he won't. Because of what I and HA say above.
His ideological obsession means that he is now boxed in and he has no alternative strategies. And May goes on...
I suspect John O'Donnell is spitting fire in private. He is the brains at the top of the Labour party. Corbyn is a 20 year old student activist in a pensioner's body. O'Donnell has not hidden his annoyance over the summer with Corbyn's team's infantile foreign policy blunders hindering Labour while O'Donnell was winning the economic argument hands down. O'Donnell is a supporter of a second referendum. Because, as Shadow Chancellor, he knows that there's no point Labour winning power after crashing out of the EU.
I'm beginning to wonder whether Corbyn will survive the next three months. His policy on THE most important issue facing us is directly opposed to that of the man who was his closest Shadow Cabinet colleague, and against what the overwhelming majority of the Labour members want. It's not a good situation.
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Corbyn might have misjudged the situation, but then you can rely on May to score an own goal by refusing to allow time for it to happen and get it over with - which makes it look as if she's just as big a coward about this vote as the Brexit one.
But now the Tories are gathering round her. She's playing for them basically saying ok we don't like your deal but given it's all we can get we will take that over Corbyn. They've gone from slating her to the story now being Corbyn's vote going nowhere. Now he gets the criticsm for not taking it further. An easy line to use against him from.May when he accuses her of being scared of a vote she will just say some say that of him. Cue pressure back on him.
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Corbyn might have misjudged the situation, but then you can rely on May to score an own goal by refusing to allow time for it to happen and get it over with - which makes it look as if she's just as big a coward about this vote as the Brexit one.
But now the Tories are gathering round her. She's playing for them basically saying ok we don't like your deal but given it's all we can get we will take that over Corbyn. They've gone from slating her to the story now being Corbyn's vote going nowhere. Now he gets the criticsm for not taking it further. An easy line to use against him from.May when he accuses her of being scared of a vote she will just say some say that of him. Cue pressure back on him.
She's not letting them gather round here though - if that's what she wants she ought to let the vote go ahead and they'll all be voting for her and showing unity in grand style. But she isn't doing that, and despite what BST says, her squashing Corbyn's motion hot on the heels of her stifling one Commons vote already isn't going to make her look strong to the public. It just makes her look shiftier than ever.
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Speaking as an ordinary voter it is a terrible situation all round. Instead of getting on running the Country the Government has been tied down trying to solve the divisive matter of a Referendum that was too divisive
The shame is for the Country itself - and it appears nobody is winning
I would hope that there is a Peoples Vote on the Deal May has evolved - or a No Deal - and if you dont like those 2 would you like to just Remain ? Its not a second Referendum as such but is a way ofsomving what Parliament does not seem to be able to !
Then whichever way it goes I want people to remember what a s**t strom this is and continues to be and how THEY have NOT been served by any of the mainstream Parties (maybe SNP have served Scotland and DUP have served NI - but Im no expert). How the MPs behave like Kids you would expel rom Class etc etc and maybe how they eventually went against the wishes of 17.4 Million Voters
Then I would love a complete new Electoral system whichever way we eventually roll with Leaving or Remaining in the EU. One that is fairer and one that is common practice in almost every modern Western democracy
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Glyn
It doesn't really matter what she looks like now. There isn't going to be a GE anytime soon. And she won't lead the Tories into the next GE anyway.
So the whole NC in HER vote is utterly pointless. It's the classice example of:
1) Something must be done.
2) The NC in May vote is something.
3) Therefore the NC Vote in may must be done.
Corbyn is stalling and avoiding the real issue. Which is that there is only one way out of this shit storrm and that is a second referendum.
The Tories and DUP will not vote to bring down the Govt. So there's not going to be a GE. That option is out.
There is no majority in Parliament for ANY deal. Not May's. Not Starmer's. Not the ERG's. So those options are out.
There is no majority in Parliament to allow a No Deal outcome. So that option is out.
Second Ref is the only way out of the impasse. But Corbyn doesn't want that, so he's deflecting and stalling.
A f**king curse on both him and May. Two f**king useless third raters when we need clear-headed visionaries.
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Reading the posts by our resident political analysts on here I am not surprised that our politicians are also at each other’s throats.
No disrespect intended to the likes of Albie, Glyn,Wilts or BST et al but each of you has a strong opinion, run out a lot of “facts” and many of those facts are discredited by one of the others.
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The second referendum vote (if it was to get voted through Parliament) is such an easy way to solve this pantomime. They are very reluctant to go down that route though presumably because they think it’s a threat to democracy perhaps.
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The second referendum vote (if it was to get voted through Parliament) is such an easy way to solve this pantomime. They are very reluctant to go down that route though presumably because they think it’s a threat to democracy perhaps.
A second referendum would be my preference too Gaz.
If however we got another leave outcome would we be in a better place than we are today though?
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BST,
You tend to avoid any question which does not suit.
Be careful you do not turn into Alaistair Campbell.
It would be irrational for Labour to support a second referendum (before a GE), at this stage.
(See my earlier post on the time it takes to set up).
Firstly, it is against party policy set out at conference.
Secondly, the numbers in the HoC do not support it presently.
Third, the timing does not fit with the decision making framework.
Fourth, deciding the options to put is not possible until the May deal is voted upon.
Fifth, the outcome may have been overtaken by events by the time of a vote.
Six, it could introduce more turbulence, rather than settle matters, as the HoC cannot be bound by an advisory poll.
Let me set out a possible sequence of events.
1. May delays until mid January, but then her deal is rejected, never to again see light.
2. Stocks and Shares fall as a result of increased possibility of no deal.
3. Sterling falls, and short sellers bet against brand UK.
4. Tory financial backers get nervous, and May is forced to walk the plank.
5. Changes are then made via the Grieve Amendment, which offer new options.
6. New Tory leader gets Brexit extension to allow time for changes to be tested in HoC.
7. At this point, a decision needs to be made about whether consent exists to proceed.
Then we might have a discussion about whether a new referendum was a better option than a GE.
I am not against Ref2, but it is just not a runner until other things are in place.
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Gaz
They are not avoiding Ref2 because of concerns about democracy.
It is THE most democratic outcome for all sorts of reasons which have been laid out at length here.
They are opposing it (for now) for ideological and party political reasons.
We WILL have Ref2, because there's no viable alternative.
And everyone who is suggesting that there will be riots if we do (like that little scrote Darren Grimes) should be prosecuted for incitement if anything remotely resembling civil unrest occurs.
Regarding civil unrest, it's worth reflecting that the Leave voters were heavily skewed towards the 50+ age group. So we might have civil unrest, but I'd back the coppers to handle several thousand gammons with dodgy backs and knees if it came to a standoff.
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How could they justify unrest? It’s still a democtic vote, just after a period of time when more info had become available. In law you can have a retrial if new evidence becomes available.
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Albie.
1)Thanks for the Campbell comment. I was missing that one on my Corbynista insult bingo card. I'm getting close to a line now.
2) I wasn't saying that Corbyn should prioritise Ref2 over GE. Please don't put words in my mouth. There's enough people twisting and misinterpreting words without someone as smart as you doing it.
3) The rest of your hypothetical argument ignored the great big elephant in the room. What is the mechanism whereby the numbers stack up to result in the Govt being brought down. Who are the Tory or DUP MPs who would vote for an outcome that gave Corbyn a shot at No10?
A GE is simply not going to happen. The sooner Corbyn faces up to that, the sooner the opposition parties can unite on the only way out of this shitshow and start pulling in enough Tories to support that.
But I'll repeat (and talk about ignoring things...I'll wait patiently for your thoughts on this). Corbyn does not want Ref2. Because he wants us out of the EU.
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The second referendum vote (if it was to get voted through Parliament) is such an easy way to solve this pantomime. They are very reluctant to go down that route though presumably because they think it’s a threat to democracy perhaps.
A second referendum would be my preference too Gaz.
If however we got another leave outcome would we be in a better place than we are today though?
Yes, because it would be for a specific version of leave and not just a nebulous 'Brexit means Brexit' result. If Parliament refused to pass a version of Leave that the public had specifically voted for, the shit really would hit the fan. As it is, it's as it's been ever since the result of the 2016 referendum was announced - every shade of Brexiteer running round claiming their version of Brexit is what the people voted for and not somebody else's. And look where it's got us.
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The second referendum vote (if it was to get voted through Parliament) is such an easy way to solve this pantomime. They are very reluctant to go down that route though presumably because they think it’s a threat to democracy perhaps.
A second referendum would be my preference too Gaz.
If however we got another leave outcome would we be in a better place than we are today though?
Yes, because it would be for a specific version of leave and not just a nebulous 'Brexit means Brexit' result. If Parliament refused to pass a version of Leave that the public had specifically voted for, the shit really would hit the fan. As it is, it's as it's been ever since the result of the 2016 referendum was announced - every shade of Brexiteer running round claiming their version of Brexit is what the people voted for and not somebody else's. And look where it's got us.
…….it has got us into a right mess.
Because everyone on both sides tells us black is white we don't have a clue what is actually best for us.
This is what I was alluding to when I said you cant believe a word that is being said.
I am not really sure that anyone actually does know what is best.
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Gaz
They are not avoiding Ref2 because of concerns about democracy.
It is THE most democratic outcome for all sorts of reasons which have been laid out at length here.
They are opposing it (for now) for ideological and party political reasons.
We WILL have Ref2, because there's no viable alternative.
And everyone who is suggesting that there will be riots if we do (like that little scrote Darren Grimes) should be prosecuted for incitement if anything remotely resembling civil unrest occurs.
Regarding civil unrest, it's worth reflecting that the Leave voters were heavily skewed towards the 50+ age group. So we might have civil unrest, but I'd back the coppers to handle several thousand gammons with dodgy backs and knees if it came to a standoff.
Ha ha ha. Most fifty year olds would be ok in a tear up with OB. That's if you could prize the plod from the doughnut aisle in the supermarket. Let 'em come! :)
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But I'll repeat (and talk about ignoring things...I'll wait patiently for your thoughts on this). Corbyn does not want Ref2. Because he wants us out of the EU.
Well yes, that was Labour's manifesto commitment and he has been saying that for two years. It is only Theresa May who says he wants to remain.
What he has also been clear about is that he want's the softest form of Brexit with a CU & close to SM. You might not like it and you might not think it is achievable but that's what the official position of the Labour Party is - and it wont change until after the vote.
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Wilts.
He's been CLEAR about the CU and SM arrangements? He's had to be dragged kicking and screaming to that position by the Shadow Cabinet, McDonnell and Starmer in particular. Just last week he was in Lisbon thumping out the failings of the EU with a passion that never once came out during the 2016 campaign.
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The idea that Labour/Corbyn are somehow being decitful because they're following the path they said they would is a bit weird. I think people on both Left and right have started to assume if politians on "their" team say something they disagree with then that politian must be lying to confuse the idiots on the other side to vote for them.
If Corbyn says hes remain but is going to honour the Ref result. You can either assume he is and vote accordingly or you can assume hes a liar and not vote for him. However, it appears to me in these strange times people are voting on the assumption that the person they are voting for thinks the opposite of what they are saying and that thats somehow a good thing.
In the interest of balance Farage contantly talks about closing our boarders to the EU but opening them to Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, China etc.. Yet the xenophobes love him because hes only saying that to confuse the liberals.
I have to say i am enjoying BSTs "bring back the neolibs i didnt mean to pray for anarchy" schtick
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TM
Neolib. That's a line on my bingo card.
Top Man.
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BST,
Your points;
1)
The Campbell comparison is because he has been selling the same argument on the media, despite having no status.
He also does not understand (or ignores) the procedural requirements. These will not disappear because they are inconvenient.
2)
So you agree Corbyn should pursue a GE before lobbying for Ref2?
That is what he is doing, in line with party policy.
3)
I am not saying that a GE will result of necessity. It is a potential outcome, and the mechanism is likely to be creative abstention.
Tories like Boles, Grieve, Soubry, Allen and others withdrawing from the party whip.
The DUP must be taken with a large pinch of salt. Their position is not supported by many in NI, including some DUP voters (see the Guardian article I linked).
Sturgeon has been urging Corbyn to play the VoC card early..which he has wisely deferred.
It is perfectly possible a GE will not materialise...that does not mean Corbyn should not try to create the chance!
You may be right that privately Corbyn does not favour Ref2. That is nothing to the point.
He is following agreed conference policy, as I said before.
If you disagree with party policy, then bring forward a motion to the next conference in the normal manner, as any local Labour party can do.
I hope that helps!
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BST I was hoping you'd spot the song lyric too doubt theres many others that would have a chance.
Anyway im not sure any politician in power would call a ref2. You'd get called a dictator by ref1 fans (a lot of them vote for your party whoever you are).
A clearer answer on what brexit means would give the political class less wiggle room and it could well turn out brexit voters meant nuking Mongolia and locking up anyone swiss or something mad. The last ref can not have filled any politician with any confidence that the people can be trusted or predicted.
And where exactly is the last PM that called for a ref he already knew the answer to. Just in case youre wondering currently the worst PM in living memory is denying receiving a text from him because in might dent her street cred.
2nd Ref is great for me but I cant see us being trusted with that sort of resposibility ever again. By anyone.
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It's a funny dictator who lets the electorate tell him what to do!
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Can't see there being any chance of disorder we are too civilised for that,leave it to the French!
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You dont have to be a dictator or act like a dictator to be called a dictator and if you're called it enough times it'll stick regardless of logic, reason or definition of the word.
Also just because we view ourselves as more civilized than the dirty foreigners doesn't mean theres nothing we can do that would cause civil unrest.
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Here's a question, how much support is there for Corbyn's policy and approach?
Lots of questioning of May but is his correct and what would you do?
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Can't see there being any chance of disorder we are too civilised for that,leave it to the French!
Not being funny Sproty but an MP was shot dead the last time we had a referendum - and that bloke's side won! Last week two people were arrested in Bath for issuing right-wing death threats and today another one in Bristol was jailed for 5 years for having enough bomb making material to blow up half his street.
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Here's a question, how much support is there for Corbyn's policy and approach?
Lots of questioning of May but is his correct and what would you do?
That's an interesting question BFYP, I'll let you know after the vote!
I do think he is in a more difficult position than May. She 'only' has to placate her mad Brexiteers and the DUP where he has to placate people like BST and the big remain wing of his party - whilst also appealing to leavers in the country if he wants to increase his support to win a snap election.
I do think his chances of winning an election have increased slightly, several Tory MP's have said they will vote with Labour in a vote of confidence if May looses the MV and triggers No Deal - but no one seriously thinks she will.
If that doesn't work who knows what he might do, but the bookmakers are apparently shortening their odds on a referendum.
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Wilts
Bang on.
I've said times-many that Corbyn pulled a blinder in 2017, convincing both Leave and Remain leaning Labour voters that he was on their side.
I've also said that stance couldn't survive the Brexit process. By the time of the next GE he'll have had to pin his colours to one mast or the other.
That puts Labour's current anemic levels of support into context.
He's got a hell of a job on holding that level once the electorate sees what his real stance on Brexit is (whatever it is).
Which suggests that he perhaps ought to have been building a constituency that could survive that moment and still put him in a GE winning position.
The fact that only 25-30% of the electorate think he'd make a better PM than May suggests he ain't been doing that.
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BST
I'm not sure Corbyn convinced voters that he is both a leaver and remainer. I think the Torys did that for him. They have and continue to paint Corbyn as leave but the parlimentary Labour party as remain.
Whether its true or not is irrelevant its a tactically flawed approach from the Torys imo.
Stereotypically i think brexit voters believe theres 1 guy/stupid woman/person of nonspecific gender that runs the whole of Europe and tells all the other countries they arent allowed bendy bananas anymore and such.
Whereas Remainers might think the best intellectual minds across the continent get together and do studies and gather expert opinion to collectively decide the best course of action. Again stereotypical not everyone thinks the same but the majority probably hold an opinion close to one of those two.
So telling Remainers that Corbyn loves Brexit actually lands with leave voters (they think the leaders position is the most important.)
And telling Brexit voters Labour are all Remaniacs actually lands with remain voters (they think policy is decided collectively, So the partys position is the only one that matters)
If you own all the newspapers and write CORBYN IS A C*NT on the front cover everyday I'd expect him to go a lot sooner than he seems to be lasting and i think being seen as both leave/remain is helping Corbyn/Labour.
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There is still one viable option for Corbyn that no one is considering at the moment.
Given there is still no functioning devolved Government in Northern Ireland, Northern Ireland voted overwhelmingly to remain and the problem it is causing in negotiating an acceptable deal, a potential referendum on a United Ireland could be Corbyn's route to power.
Promising such a thing may convince the Sinn Fein MPs to take their seats to try and force a general election. It wouldn't give the opposition a majority, but it brings every vote to a knife edge and greatly increases the prospect of a no confidence motion being passed.
Polling in Northern and Replubic of Ireland does show support for a United Ireland is growing as the likelihood of No Deal increases.
If Northern Ireland suddenly disappear from the equation then all of a sudden an acceptable deal to the commons becomes more likely.
A Conservative Leader could never stand on such a manifesto pledge, but Corbyn can.
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Wow Mr1Croft that is a radical view - that will have the streets running with blood
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Do you not have to swear an oath to the Queen to take your seat? I can't see Sinn Fein ever doing that.
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Sinn Fein will never, ever take their seats in Parliament. I remember this being talked about after the 2017 election, it won't happen.
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MrCroft
Nice idealism there. Might be a practical problem or two. Like war in Ireland.
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And you don't start with a direct switch from the UK to ROI, you have a referendum on NI independence - after which they could stay in the EU on their own terms whilst the rest of the UK exits. There's a lot more chance of that succeeding because there's a whole bunch of people who would never vote to unite with Ireland who might vote for independence.
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There is still one viable option for Corbyn that no one is considering at the moment.
Given there is still no functioning devolved Government in Northern Ireland, Northern Ireland voted overwhelmingly to remain and the problem it is causing in negotiating an acceptable deal, a potential referendum on a United Ireland could be Corbyn's route to power.
Promising such a thing may convince the Sinn Fein MPs to take their seats to try and force a general election. It wouldn't give the opposition a majority, but it brings every vote to a knife edge and greatly increases the prospect of a no confidence motion being passed.
Polling in Northern and Replubic of Ireland does show support for a United Ireland is growing as the likelihood of No Deal increases.
If Northern Ireland suddenly disappear from the equation then all of a sudden an acceptable deal to the commons becomes more likely.
A Conservative Leader could never stand on such a manifesto pledge, but Corbyn can.
Well, I suppose if there's one thing that might force the DUP back into the bosom of Theresa that's it. It would be far worse than the prospect of a few customs posts.