Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: RedJ on January 01, 2019, 08:43:27 pm
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Currently top goalscorer in the league. Just noticed that.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/league-one/top-scorers
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Nothing to see here, ..move on !
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If he carries on like he is one of two things will probably happen. We will get promoted or the will get bought in the summer.
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We need Feb 1st asap can't see him leaving us unless to a championship club now or to either Sunderland or maybe Portsmouth
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55 goals in 115 league appearances.
What a player.
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55 goals in 115 league appearances.
What a player.
1 in 2 is a very good return, he offers much more than just goals though which makes that return even better.
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One goal every other games for an extended period of time is more than very good. It is utterly exceptional. You only have a slack handful of players with that record spread across the entire league at any one time.
As you say Gaz, add his work rate and his indestructibility to that and you're talking about one of the best half dozen strikers in our long history.
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The people on here a month or so ago saying we should sell him have gone quiet.
Unbelievable really, he is as good as we’ve ever had
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So quick to criticise and then forget, always looking for a scapegoat? May , mandeville, Taylor, marquis, Wilks etc . Get a grip . Marquis top goal scorer in the league . Donny in the playoffs!! Life doesn’t get much better than this !!!
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Currently top goalscorer in the league. Just noticed that.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/league-one/top-scorers
These stats show 15 goals but no assists. Probably indicates that he is focussed on scoring when he gets the chance. Perhaps unlucky not to get an assist for the second goal against Oxford?
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As I said before, Marquis assists for 90 minutes, virtually every game..
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Doesn't every player 'assist' in games?
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You would think so, yes, which is why I don’t hold much by the assist statistics..
My point with Marquis is he runs his balls off virtually every game for the team, and if that doesn’t count as assisting, what does.?
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The stats are about goal assists, which are credited to players who pass the ball to the scorer.
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I know that BB, but they don’t tell the whole story..
Our 5th goal, was it Marquis who sent a great pass to Blair.? Blair gets the assist credit for the excellent cross but the chance was created by the pass before..
Our 3rd goal, who gets the assist.?
Our second goal, is the assist due to Wilks.?
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Of course, they don't tell the whole story but passing sequences can only go back so far otherwise the goalkeeper would probably have most assists!
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He pulled the ball back for mays goal against oxford, and as someone mentioned earlier similar v scunny
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That probably didn't count because the ball didn't go directly to May from his cross.
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I repeat, who gets an assist for our second goal.?
Sometimes I think there are stats produced for stats sake..
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Our second goal was scored direct from a free kick so nobody assisted!
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That’s the point.. you could argue Wilks deserves an assist for winning the free kick..
I’m of the same school of thought as Shankly and Clough, if your not assisting you shouldn’t be on the pitch.. for example, for our first goal there were other players the Dale defenders were concentrating on, leaving May unmarked.. do they get any credit for assisting that goal.?
Just my opinion but the assist stat can lose its meaning and relevance..
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Should the Rochdale defenders get credit for an assist?
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Now you’re taking the point too far..
The bigger point I am making is that whilst Marquis doesn’t have any assist credits against his stats this season, he makes a massive impact on the pitch beyond his goals.. to me that makes a mockery of having a stat for assists..
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The whole "assist" thing is a load of ba-baa. A pointless Americanism, bolted onto a game where it doesn't really apply.
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I feel you're arguing with semantics, IDM. The word "assist" is used in many contexts, yes Marquis assists our performance throughout the entire game, but that stat specifically refers to a "goal assist" and refers to the player who directly gives the ball to the goalscorer. Sometimes it is a case of common sense, like with Marquis assisting May's goal against Oxford - it's obviously not been credited to him cos it came off a defender and then May tucked it away - but that's how it goes sometimes. Stats only ever tell part of a story, and they can be misleading or used to prove points that may not necessarily be true, but when it comes to recording tangible statistics in football, recording goal assists is an important and useful aspect whereas saying "he assists the team every week" isn't.
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The whole "assist" thing is a load of ba-baa. A pointless Americanism, bolted onto a game where it doesn't really apply.
What a f**king surprise! Your new year's resolutions didn't include stopping your boring predictability did it, Billy!
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If someone takes a couple of players on gets to the byline pulls it back a defender gets a touch on it but it makes its way to our player then it’s an obvious assist from our player.
Just because a defender gets a touch on it shouldn’t stop it being an assist.
Players score goals that get deflection off defenders but it’s still their goal
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My point is that American Football is an entirely structured game, where players at each play have specific and very well planned roles to perform. That lends itself to judging players' performances by specific metrics.
Football is far more fluid than that. Listing "assists" is a crude bolting on of the metric approach. It's mildly interesting but doesn't really tell you that much.
Marquis here is a perfect example. What conclusion would someone reach, judging him on the "official" assist figures?
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RA you have given an example of where the assist thing falls over.
I think there is a place for these extra stats and analysis, and that is for the coaching staff and players IMHO.
I respect that others think differently but the assist stat is irrelevant to how I look at the players and their performances..
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Just a comment on JM celebrating Alfie’s goal
Also JM runs his nuts off week in week out, you can’t name many games when he hasn’t, even through his “barren spell” a few weeks ago
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BST, there comes a time when things become beyond a joke.
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Never gets injured. As in, when do you ever recall him limping? Given how he plays, this is surreal.
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BST, there comes a time when things become beyond a joke.
You’re a secret admirer are n’t you 😀
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You're much more fun when you cover your unpleasantness in a thin veneer of humour BB.
My point is that American Football is an entirely structured game, where players at each play have specific and very well planned roles to perform. That lends itself to judging players' performances by specific metrics.
Football is far more fluid than that. Listing "assists" is a crude bolting on of the metric approach. It's mildly interesting but doesn't really tell you that much.
Marquis here is a perfect example. What conclusion would someone reach, judging him on the "official" assist figures?
Assist stats have been brought in by fantasy football games. They are a complete load of b*llocks.
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You get an assist for being fouled in the penalty area
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So Copps' assists stats (for instance) are a complete load of b*llocks?
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The team mates, management and supporters can recognise Copps’ contribution without needing to quantify the assists.
Take the debate over May for example - you can tell by watching him play that he is making a good contribution to the team performance but you don’t need aspects of his play quantifying to make such a judgement..
Look at Kane.. has been outstanding but what are his stats?? Do we need stats to analyse him or do we just enjoy watching this lad play?
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So Copps' assists stats (for instance) are a complete load of b*llocks?
They are poor over the years. If you are using that as a metric of judgement he’s not got enough in his career compared to his ability.
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Stats are used to analyse performance. They are useful to people who want to refer to performances of players when they haven't been in attendance at games. Goals are an important stat, as are goal scorers. Goal assists are also important stats as they would otherwise be overlooked and players wouldn't get credit for from a wider audience if they weren't published.
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So. I'll ask again. If you go by those figures, what conclusion do you come to about Marquis's contribution to the team?
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I'd read them as Marquis having no assists! But I'd also read that Marquis is the top scorer for us and has been a revelation since we signed him. A fantastic signing, I'd say.
It seems to me that you're suggesting goal assist stats should be scrapped because people might think that they are detrimental to Marquis' contribution to the team!
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Aye alright BB. Looks like 2019 is going to be another one of those years where you spend more time arguing with what you want folk to be saying, rather than engaging with what they actually do say.
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Go on then Billy, why are goal assist stats such a bad thing, other than being detrimental to Marquis' contribution to Rovers?
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Aye alright BB. Looks like 2019 is going to be another one of those years where you spend more time arguing with what you want folk to be saying, rather than engaging with what they actually do say.
I just re-read that. How dare YOU of all people accuse ME of that? Your description of me sums you up to perfection!
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They're not a bad thing per se. They are just not very helpful in appraising a game which doesn't easily lend itself to simple metrics. As I said about 2 hours ago.
The construction of football goals is a much more complex process than, say, the construction of American Football touchdowns. The contributions that lead to football goals cannot really be assessed by totting up who made the final pass to the goalscorer. So, assist tallies are, at the very best, highly limited sets of data.
I used Marquis as an example of that argument. It's rather bizarre that you interpret that as some sort of drawing up of battle lines, but fill your boots if that's what you want to do.
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Sadly, I fear the biggest battle is ensuring we bat off any bids for him this month and keep him focused and try to ensure his head isn’t turned by the big boys. Last thing we need is his concentration dipping or him getting the arse on (if you get what I mean!!)
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BB
Accepted. I do occasionally misconstrue what someone is saying in here.
I think I also tend to apologise when I do that, although maybe I don't always get that right.
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Sadly, I fear the biggest battle is ensuring we bat off any bids for him this month and keep him focused and try to ensure his head isn’t turned by the big boys. Last thing we need is his concentration dipping or him getting the arse on (if you get what I mean!!)
I do fear that we may be seeing the last of him. He's been too good for too long to not be on the radar of at least mid-lower Championship sides.
Anyone who was in a Championship relegation scrap would be daft not to look at him. He'd either do you the job of keeping you up, or go a long way towards getting you back up next year.
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I can’t believe people are saying that an assist doesn’t exist if a defender gets a touch on it in between.
If he’s gone on a 20 yards run and layes it on a plate but a defender gets a toe on it are you really saying this is then not an assist
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Here's hoping the stat of 'no assists' put them off.
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Here's hoping the stat of 'no assists' put them off.
I’m sure the people who make those decisions will realise that 0 assists is a load of nonsense
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I can’t believe people are saying that an assist doesn’t exist if a defender gets a touch on it in between.
If he’s gone on a 20 yards run and lates it on a plate but a defender gets a toe on it are you really saying this is then not an assist
In case you're referring to me, I don't make the decisions on what is an assist, the statisticians do that!
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I can’t believe people are saying that an assist doesn’t exist if a defender gets a touch on it in between.
If he’s gone on a 20 yards run and layes it on a plate but a defender gets a toe on it are you really saying this is then not an assist
It might exist to us, and rightly so, but not to the people who compile the stats. Like a shot on target doesn't count if it's blocked, another ridiculous thing imo.
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I can’t believe people are saying that an assist doesn’t exist if a defender gets a touch on it in between.
If he’s gone on a 20 yards run and lates it on a plate but a defender gets a toe on it are you really saying this is then not an assist
In case you're referring to me, I don't make the decisions on what is an assist, the statisticians do that!
Exactly that’s why the people that matter won’t take any notice of something wrongly attempting to make football so black and white
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I can’t believe people are saying that an assist doesn’t exist if a defender gets a touch on it in between.
If he’s gone on a 20 yards run and layes it on a plate but a defender gets a toe on it are you really saying this is then not an assist
It might exist to us, and rightly so, but not to the people who compile the stats. Like a shot on target doesn't count if it's blocked, another ridiculous thing imo.
Stats like that though will only be used by people compiling the scores on a fantasy football game though.
You get assist points for being fouled for a penalty but don’t if a defender gets a touch on your pull back
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How do you measure statistically the enjoyment of watching the close ball control of players like Copps, Kane, and Wilks especially yesterday.?
There is much more to the quality of the play, and the entertainment, things which get you on the edge of your seat that cannot be measured..
You can probably count the number of tackles a player makes, but how do you quantify empirically that great tackle by Blair.?
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Whack an applausometer in every ground, dur.
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Here's hoping the stat of 'no assists' put them off.
I’m sure the people who make those decisions will realise that 0 assists is a load of nonsense
It seems BST's wrong in his comment about me being much more fun when I use a thin veneer of humour.
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Whack an applausometer in every ground, dur.
A clapometer.? I think you can scratch that idea.!!
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Here's hoping the stat of 'no assists' put them off.
I’m sure the people who make those decisions will realise that 0 assists is a load of nonsense
It seems BST's wrong in his comment about me being much more fun when I use a thin veneer of humour.
That's better.
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I can’t believe people are saying that an assist doesn’t exist if a defender gets a touch on it in between.
If he’s gone on a 20 yards run and layes it on a plate but a defender gets a toe on it are you really saying this is then not an assist
Hope you don't mean me, in my example of the May goal assisted (or not) by Marquis, I was using it to illustrate my latter point that common sense should be used but often isn't with these stats. I'd give him the assist for it, but if those who compile these statistics are being strict with it, since it came off a defender it isn't technically an assist by anyone and May "made" the goal himself by pouncing on the defender's touch.
I'd give Wilks the assist for Crawford's free kick yesterday because that Zidane turn was a moment of brilliance and deserves more praise.
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If someone takes a couple of players on gets to the byline pulls it back a defender gets a touch on it but it makes its way to our player then it’s an obvious assist from our player.
Just because a defender gets a touch on it shouldn’t stop it being an assist.
Players score goals that get deflection off defenders but it’s still their goal
Players are credited with goals that deflect off defenders if the original shot had been on target in the first place.
The cross by Marquis would not have gone anywhere near May if the defender hadn’t made that block as our player tried to get his shot away.
That was what caused the ball to fall nicely for Alfie to tuck away.
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If anyone gets an assist for Crawfords goal yesterday it has to Andrew, he let him take it😂
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Marquis to play up front with Billy Sharp.
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Both selected in the Sky EFL team of the week.
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Marquis to play up front with Billy Sharp.
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Both selected in the Sky EFL team of the week.
That might be getting close in reality?
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Marquis to play up front with Billy Sharp.
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Both selected in the Sky EFL team of the week.
That might be getting close in reality?
Well unless we are getting Billy, I hope not.
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Sheff utd will be going after premiership potential players even if just on loan to go up they won't waste money on john for 6 months