Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: silent majority on June 04, 2019, 07:21:54 pm
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We are starting a campaign designed to ensure this doesn't happen. This article though shows some of the reasons why we, as supporters of a lower league team, should be concerned;
http://fsf.org.uk/blog/view/six-reasons-to-oppose-a-european-super-league
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It’s been talked about for a long time . It makes no sense as domestic leagues will always take president and there is already the two European cups which generate £millions . Money could only be generated from online subscriptions and betting . The top teams in Europe aren’t rich enough to abandon their own domestic leagues and the fans couldn’t afford the fixtures home and away. Add together the need for cup competitions it will die a death if the supporters get bored with the same teams winning everything or your team not winning nothing , as this would probably happen .
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Too many teams who win something in their home leagues would never win anything in a European Super League.
That alone would put many of them off the idea.
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It’s been talked about for a long time . It makes no sense as domestic leagues will always take president and there is already the two European cups which generate £millions . Money could only be generated from online subscriptions and betting . The top teams in Europe aren’t rich enough to abandon their own domestic leagues and the fans couldn’t afford the fixtures home and away. Add together the need for cup competitions it will die a death if the supporters get bored with the same teams winning everything or your team not winning nothing , as this would probably happen .
You've obviously not read this in any detail.
This is a reality as UEFA have now given this their support (as being opposed to it in previous years)
This is the top clubs in Europe now doing to the Premier league what the Premier League did to the EFL all those years ago.
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Too many teams who win something in their home leagues would never win anything in a European Super League.
That alone would put many of them off the idea.
You need to read this again.
The ECA have already decided to do this, nobody who has been invited is turning it down.
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It is a bit like trying to prevent a planning application for four hundred houses in your town going through.
The developers keep coming back with variations based on what the objections were last time until eventually the planning office agrees with the application.
In time people forget that there ever was a nice green space where the houses stand and everyone gets used to what they have to live with.
In the case of this football idea, given that all of the invited clubs appear to be in and want to go with it, I reckon it is reasonable to say that it will eventually happen.
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It is a bit like trying to prevent a planning application for four hundred houses in your town going through.
The developers keep coming back with variations based on what the objections were last time until eventually the planning office agrees with the application.
In time people forget that there ever was a nice green space where the houses stand and everyone gets used to what they have to live with.
In the case of this football idea, given that all of the invited clubs appear to be in and want to go with it, I reckon it is reasonable to say that it will eventually happen.
So, we don't do anything then? And allow smaller clubs further down the pyramid to go out of business?
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It is a bit like trying to prevent a planning application for four hundred houses in your town going through.
The developers keep coming back with variations based on what the objections were last time until eventually the planning office agrees with the application.
In time people forget that there ever was a nice green space where the houses stand and everyone gets used to what they have to live with.
In the case of this football idea, given that all of the invited clubs appear to be in and want to go with it, I reckon it is reasonable to say that it will eventually happen.
So, we don't do anything then? And allow smaller clubs further down the pyramid to go out of business?
Where did I say that?
All I am saying is that it will probably happen.
A bit like the housing development, the governing body listens to all the objections but eventually the application gets passed.
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If football clubs lower down the pyramid are only surviving due to the dribs and drabs sent down by the megarich it shows the system is corrupt. What we're being asked he is to support a corrupt system.
The megarich have essentially created a European super league already in everything but name. You literally have to be a small, middle eastern nation-state to even compete these days (or once in a generation luck).
If they want to piss off and create their own league its absolutely fine for me. But they would have to do it completely, they can't have one foot in and one foot out. The article presents some very unconvincing arguments and an idealistic view of football. Promotion and relegation based on sporting performance? Give me a break, they're already close to spending billions on their squads.
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It is a bit like trying to prevent a planning application for four hundred houses in your town going through.
The developers keep coming back with variations based on what the objections were last time until eventually the planning office agrees with the application.
In time people forget that there ever was a nice green space where the houses stand and everyone gets used to what they have to live with.
In the case of this football idea, given that all of the invited clubs appear to be in and want to go with it, I reckon it is reasonable to say that it will eventually happen.
So, we don't do anything then? And allow smaller clubs further down the pyramid to go out of business?
Where did I say that?
All I am saying is that it will probably happen.
A bit like the housing development, the governing body listens to all the objections but eventually the application gets passed.
Game 39 didn't happen. Despite the support of the EPL they didn't get their way.
You might not have said it but inferred that everybody would be wasting their time, pretty much the same thing.
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If football clubs lower down the pyramid are only surviving due to the dribs and drabs sent down by the megarich it shows the system is corrupt. What we're being asked he is to support a corrupt system.
The megarich have essentially created a European super league already in everything but name. You literally have to be a small, middle eastern nation-state to even compete these days (or once in a generation luck).
If they want to piss off and create their own league its absolutely fine for me. But they would have to do it completely, they can't have one foot in and one foot out. The article presents some very unconvincing arguments and an idealistic view of football. Promotion and relegation based on sporting performance? Give me a break, they're already close to spending billions on their squads.
Yes, of course you're right.
But the options now being paraded around Europe will only make the current situation worse.
Believe me the EPL and EFL are crapping themselves over these new proposals.
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It is a bit like trying to prevent a planning application for four hundred houses in your town going through.
The developers keep coming back with variations based on what the objections were last time until eventually the planning office agrees with the application.
In time people forget that there ever was a nice green space where the houses stand and everyone gets used to what they have to live with.
In the case of this football idea, given that all of the invited clubs appear to be in and want to go with it, I reckon it is reasonable to say that it will eventually happen.
So, we don't do anything then? And allow smaller clubs further down the pyramid to go out of business?
Where did I say that?
All I am saying is that it will probably happen.
A bit like the housing development, the governing body listens to all the objections but eventually the application gets passed.
Game 39 didn't happen. Despite the support of the EPL they didn't get their way.
You might not have said it but inferred that everybody would be wasting their time, pretty much the same thing.
No I am not saying that everyone would be wasting their time objecting.
You are missing the point I am making.
The game 39 thing was just a small victory on the way to losing the war overall.
It was just a small development of a few houses.
This new suggestion is the big one, the 400 plus houses, building on green belt land.
The council want the extra revenue from the council tax.
The builders want the profit from the sale of the houses and the farmer wants the money from the sale of his land.
It doesn’t matter to them what anyone else thinks.
It will happen eventually.
I am being realistic here.
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People can’t afford to travel abroad every other week so would EFL clubs not benefit from increased attendances?
Good riddance to the greedy lot of them imo. Let them go and play in a European league if they want.
It will all end in tears when attendances fall due to travel costs and the public will get board of the monotony.
The champions league is a break from the weekly league games.
When Europe become the league games it will all go flat after 3/4 seasons.
It’s doomed I say doomed.
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People can’t afford to travel abroad every other week so would EFL clubs not benefit from increased attendances?
Good riddance to the greedy lot of them imo. Let them go and play in a European league if they want.
It will all end in tears when attendances fall due to travel costs and the public will get board of the monotony.
The champions league is a break from the weekly league games.
When Europe become the league games it will all go flat after 3/4 seasons.
It’s doomed I say doomed.
Campsall,
You need to see the ramifications of this. Supporters saying 'let them go' will be the hit the hardest.
It's a known fact that when Champions League games are on TV attendances fall at live football. Pitch that against games kicking off at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon and you will see some severe reductions in attendees. Follow that up with a reduction in monies coming from the EPL and all of a sudden you have a crisis in the lower leagues.
This isn't a hypothesis as such, discussions with both leagues have already highlighted the difficulties we'll face. Up until now Uefa have opposed the setting up of the Super League, now, along with the ECA, they have joined forces to promote this. It's a difficult time.
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Why does the FA as the guardian of the game persistently allow the Premier League (and by that I mean the interests of a diminishing number of very big clubs) prevail over the other 92 clubs and indeed the game more broadly? Surely they can pull rank over the Premier League to stop shit like this happening.
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Why does the FA as the guardian of the game persistently allow the Premier League (and by that I mean the interests of a diminishing number of very big clubs) prevail over the other 92 clubs and indeed the game more broadly? Surely they can pull rank over the Premier League to stop shit like this happening.
CBCB,
You do remember that the FA were involved with the breakaway EPL? In fact I do believe that its still called the FA Premier League.
But this time the EPL are not the aggressor, they will be the victim of the ECA and UEFA.
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That was kinda my point. These folks are meant to be the guardian of the entire game, not just a small handful of large clubs. The Premier League is manifestly bad for the wider English game yet they have been behind this.
The FA opposition to this latest plan is surely because they want to protect the value of the Premier League ‘product’ they have ‘curated’ and don’t want any of the cash to flow elsewhere - rather than any altruistic attempt to stop the game being ruined for the benefit of the very few?
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People can’t afford to travel abroad every other week so would EFL clubs not benefit from increased attendances?
Good riddance to the greedy lot of them imo. Let them go and play in a European league if they want.
It will all end in tears when attendances fall due to travel costs and the public will get board of the monotony.
The champions league is a break from the weekly league games.
When Europe become the league games it will all go flat after 3/4 seasons.
It’s doomed I say doomed.
Campsall,
You need to see the ramifications of this. Supporters saying 'let them go' will be the hit the hardest.
It's a known fact that when Champions League games are on TV attendances fall at live football. Pitch that against games kicking off at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon and you will see some severe reductions in attendees. Follow that up with a reduction in monies coming from the EPL and all of a sudden you have a crisis in the lower leagues.
This isn't a hypothesis as such, discussions with both leagues have already highlighted the difficulties we'll face. Up until now Uefa have opposed the setting up of the Super League, now, along with the ECA, they have joined forces to promote this. It's a difficult time.
So what do we do to stop it? We are powerless aren’t we. Or am i missing something.
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That was kinda my point. These folks are meant to be the guardian of the entire game, not just a small handful of large clubs. The Premier League is manifestly bad for the wider English game yet they have been behind this.
The FA opposition to this latest plan is surely because they want to protect the value of the Premier League ‘product’ they have ‘curated’ and don’t want any of the cash to flow elsewhere - rather than any altruistic attempt to stop the game being ruined for the benefit of the very few?
Yes of course.
But they aren't behind this, they are victims.
But this plan will have a very negative effect on the EFL. We have already been informed that parachute payments will drop leading to lower incomes for clubs like ours. It's a dire situation if we allow it to become reality.
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People can’t afford to travel abroad every other week so would EFL clubs not benefit from increased attendances?
Good riddance to the greedy lot of them imo. Let them go and play in a European league if they want.
It will all end in tears when attendances fall due to travel costs and the public will get board of the monotony.
The champions league is a break from the weekly league games.
When Europe become the league games it will all go flat after 3/4 seasons.
It’s doomed I say doomed.
Campsall,
You need to see the ramifications of this. Supporters saying 'let them go' will be the hit the hardest.
It's a known fact that when Champions League games are on TV attendances fall at live football. Pitch that against games kicking off at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon and you will see some severe reductions in attendees. Follow that up with a reduction in monies coming from the EPL and all of a sudden you have a crisis in the lower leagues.
This isn't a hypothesis as such, discussions with both leagues have already highlighted the difficulties we'll face. Up until now Uefa have opposed the setting up of the Super League, now, along with the ECA, they have joined forces to promote this. It's a difficult time.
So what do we do to stop it? We are powerless aren’t we. Or am i missing something.
No, not powerless. But for the meantime our job is to make supporters aware, stop them from saying 'let the greedy bas**rds go' and point out the ramifications.
We, the FSF, along with our partners in Europe, the FSE, have already met with Uefa and challenged their plan. More will follow.
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Can’t they play all these matches on a
Saturday eve 8-00pm KO or Sunday pm
Then Saturday 3-00 KO would remain the Provence of all EFL clubs.
Surely that should be a sensible solution.
Let’s face it if this European super league is going to happen then it’s going to happen so let’s talk about a solution that’s not going to kill 70 + EFL clubs and keeps the biggest clubs happy stock pilling their tens of millions of £.
It’s just a business to them now. Sport is not part of the equation & as for the community they are supposed to represent, well what a joke.
So pleased and proud to be a DRFC supporter. What a fantastic club we are privileged to support. :clapping: :that:
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Wouldn’t bother me if they did all form a European Super League or however they’d want to brand it.
We’ve already reached a stage where Southampton, West Ham, Wolves, etc, have more money than properly huge clubs in Europe like AC Milan and Inter Milan and Valencia. That in itself is ridiculous.
New ‘giants’ will become established in every European country and it’ll initially make a refreshing change from Man City, PSG, Bayern and Juventus and Barcelona winning their respective leagues every year.
When they get bored in their ‘elite’ league they’ll be begging the dominant forces previously forgotten to join their supreme competition.
You're ignoring the ramifications on the rest of the league structure. Be careful what you wish for.
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It’s been talked about for a long time . It makes no sense as domestic leagues will always take president and there is already the two European cups which generate £millions . Money could only be generated from online subscriptions and betting . The top teams in Europe aren’t rich enough to abandon their own domestic leagues and the fans couldn’t afford the fixtures home and away. Add together the need for cup competitions it will die a death if the supporters get bored with the same teams winning everything or your team not winning nothing , as this would probably happen .
You've obviously not read this in any detail.
This is a reality as UEFA have now given this their support (as being opposed to it in previous years)
This is the top clubs in Europe now doing to the Premier league what the Premier League did to the EFL all those years ago.
If a European League impacts on the domestic game to it detriment then its dead in the water before it’s begun . Loyal Supporters of any club will vote with their feet . This idea is driven by investor corruption just look at Qatar and now discredited former leader Sep Blatter . Can anyone see relegation effected Premier League clubs standing back and watch their clubs being used as cannon fodder .
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It might be a bridge too far for supporters in terms of expense. Yes, some will be able to attend home and away. Many won’t. Yes, many will watch on TV. But we may see a boost in attendances for EFL games in a back to “proper football” movement...?
Nobody really can say what the results will be if and when it does happen. Suffice to say it’s solely for $$$ and mainly for the Asia and Middles East cable networks. And merchandising.
If it does happen, it has to be a complete break. Everybody in the EFL moves up a league. No more PL.
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The sooner they go the better for me. The premier league elite are ruining English football as it is. As for teams lower down the EFL having less money, teams will just have to start paying their players less and cut costs. Back to how the game was 10-20 years ago.
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No more Money IF NO MORE PREMIER LEAGUE!!!!
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No more Money IF NO MORE PREMIER LEAGUE!!!!
They will still be a premier league
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There will be a Premier League but how much will Sky etc pay for TV rights?
The best players will move to a new European League which will be the new must watch football.
The greedy bigger English clubs will keep as much revenue as they can to fritter away and go all out to poach fans from the smaller EFL clubs.
Troubled times ahead?
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There will be a Premier League but how much will Sky etc pay for TV rights?
The best players will move to a new European League which will be the new must watch football.
The greedy bigger English clubs will keep as much revenue as they can to fritter away and go all out to poach fans from the smaller EFL clubs.
Troubled times ahead?
The premier rights will go for less money, so teams will have to start paying players less the money... the days of 200,300,400k a week wages in the premier league will be gone. Is that such a bad thing ? Championship players on 30-40k a week will be no more. Again not a bad thing
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It's the circle of life. UEFA and the big clubs bully the PL and other top level competitions to get what they want. The Premier League bullies the EFL to get what they want for their clubs such as EPPP and the Checkatrade format. If the Super League is stopped or not it wont ever stop the greed of bigger clubs. Football was exciting because clubs could rise up and one day dream of winning the top tier but we've spent the past 20/25 years with the same boring clubs winning everything with only oil money changing that.
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Surely this will open the door for other media groups to get involved with promoting the game, and not having to compete with the likes of Sky and BT...
I say Reshuffle the FA and start afresh....there used to be full grounds well before Sky sports turned the heads of the money grabbers in charge.....and regarding the lower league teams getting less money, I guess all teams will have to cut their cloth accordingly, maybe crowds will increase initially has a protest against the elite....who knows what will happen should this happen, but I doubt many will look at these ramifications until they become a reality....I personally don’t see this happening too soon, but welcome the turmoil
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Football was exciting because clubs could rise up and one day dream of winning the top tier but we've spent the past 20/25 years with the same boring clubs winning everything
Exactly half of the clubs that have won the Premier League have also played in the 3rd tier of English football in the last 25 years.
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It's the circle of life. UEFA and the big clubs bully the PL and other top level competitions to get what they want. The Premier League bullies the EFL to get what they want for their clubs such as EPPP and the Checkatrade format. If the Super League is stopped or not it wont ever stop the greed of bigger clubs. Football was exciting because clubs could rise up and one day dream of winning the top tier but we've spent the past 20/25 years with the same boring clubs winning everything with only oil money changing that.
Fully agree with this. It is sheer greed by top Clubs everywhere - and increasingly in every sport
The "romance" of football used to be can you climb as did Northampton from Div 4 to Div 1 (top tier) - and yes you could BUT without MEGA money it cant be done now
Teams are increasingly "in their place". There are three (ish) layers of the Prem already - and the rest of the EFL is fast becoming stratified and that "romance" is dying fast because a Team like Scunny / Bury / FGR (insert your own names) will be in Tier 4 and their aspiration will be to make Tier 3 now and again and avoid Tier 5 - and that is a very sad place to be for those Clubs and their fans to be in and Gates will suffer and of course already have
There are people as we know who are glory hunters and wont support their local Team(s) - and they certainly wont be encouraged if that Team has aims only to stay where they are - have a good Season or 2 - and then come back down.
Sad but inevitable state of affairs - and my dad used to have many "sayings / views" one of which was - "when they take the maximum wage off Football the game will get ruined" He said that and though it has taken a while we have got to where I am sure he thought we would
Premiership trying to seal their "Club" and avoid Relegation of their Members. Already been discussed many times. Make Championship Prem 2 and do the same ? I would not discount anything
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It sounds one step more souless than prem games but such is the progression of the modern world anyway. I'm sure it will happen pretty much as is planned.
The further killing off of the League Cup and FA Cup is what bothers me more. The killing off of the European cups entertainment value has already happened with the league format - the old knockout format from the off was far superior in terms of entertainment, as well as having the three tier League winners European Cup, Cup winners and UEFA cups.
Should we object? Yes, just in the same way we should object to all corporate domination in our world. It is a losing battle against soul numbing insanity but gotta be done.
Well done to the FSA and others for leading on this.
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Too many teams who win something in their home leagues would never win anything in a European Super League.
That alone would put many of them off the idea.
Until all the top 4 or 5 clubs in each major league are owned by milti billionaires which won’t be long.
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All the ramifications discussed here for the FA and the FL also apply to all other countries. However, none of them have productised their offer quite like the PL has and the funding implications for English football are severe. When the likes of Eleven Sports can pick up the rights for La Liga for a Web only platform that tells you all you need to know about how unattractive "foreign" leagues are to domestic broadcasters. The PL is a global brand but only because of the richness and interest in the teams playing, and the fact they attract the best players from all over the world. Take the top 4 or 5 teams out of that and what do you have left to bring in the global audience?
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If the EPL are crapping themselves, can they not threaten that any club going into this competition cannot also participate in the EPL at the same time?
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If the EPL are crapping themselves, can they not threaten that any club going into this competition cannot also participate in the EPL at the same time?
Glyn, that's a given. The top 5 clubs will leave the EPL.
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If the EPL are crapping themselves, can they not threaten that any club going into this competition cannot also participate in the EPL at the same time?
Glyn, that's a given. The top 5 clubs will leave the EPL.
Also tell them they won't be allowed to enter the FA or League Cup, and that they won't have an automatic right back into the top tier of the English League when it all goes tits up and they come crawling back because they win feck all and finish nowhere season after season. Make them start again at National League level!
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If the EPL are crapping themselves, can they not threaten that any club going into this competition cannot also participate in the EPL at the same time?
Glyn, that's a given. The top 5 clubs will leave the EPL.
Is that a given IF the ESL happens or is it a given because the ESL is going to happen.
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If the EPL are crapping themselves, can they not threaten that any club going into this competition cannot also participate in the EPL at the same time?
Glyn, that's a given. The top 5 clubs will leave the EPL.
Also tell them they won't be allowed to enter the FA or League Cup, and that they won't have an automatic right back into the top tier of the English League when it all goes tits up and they come crawling back because they win feck all and finish nowhere season after season. Make them start again at National League level!
f**k that, make them start at the 9th tier like everyone else.
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If the EPL are crapping themselves, can they not threaten that any club going into this competition cannot also participate in the EPL at the same time?
Glyn, that's a given. The top 5 clubs will leave the EPL.
Is that a given IF the ESL happens or is it a given because the ESL is going to happen.
The 'given' is that the top 5 clubs in all major leagues in Europe will resign from their respective leagues.
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If the EPL are crapping themselves, can they not threaten that any club going into this competition cannot also participate in the EPL at the same time?
Glyn, that's a given. The top 5 clubs will leave the EPL.
Is that a given IF the ESL happens or is it a given because the ESL is going to happen.
The 'given' is that the top 5 clubs in all major leagues in Europe will resign from their respective leagues.
So who out of the current “top 6” would miss out ?
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That's tr bun fight right there.
In reality, they could be a bit more selective. Top 6 from EPL, 4 from La Liga, 4 from Serie A, 2 from Ligue Un, 3 from Bundesliga, 1 from Eredivisie, for example.
I doubt they will want 20, mind. Celtic and Rangers will be asking to join the PL again then too.
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That's tr bun fight right there.
In reality, they could be a bit more selective. Top 6 from EPL, 4 from La Liga, 4 from Serie A, 2 from Ligue Un, 3 from Bundesliga, 1 from Eredivisie, for example.
I doubt they will want 20, mind. Celtic and Rangers will be asking to join the PL again then too.
Allowing Celtic and Rangers to join the PL would be very hypocritical though wouldn’t it, as it would certainly be a crippling blow to the Scottish League.
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If the EPL are crapping themselves, can they not threaten that any club going into this competition cannot also participate in the EPL at the same time?
Glyn, that's a given. The top 5 clubs will leave the EPL.
Is that a given IF the ESL happens or is it a given because the ESL is going to happen.
The 'given' is that the top 5 clubs in all major leagues in Europe will resign from their respective leagues.
So who out of the current “top 6” would miss out ?
Tough one for me.
Ideally Man U should miss out - but then again they would do a Celtic and win the League 9 times in a row and the quadruple quadruple 4 or 5 times
mmmmmm - I will think this through a bit more !
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That's tr bun fight right there.
In reality, they could be a bit more selective. Top 6 from EPL, 4 from La Liga, 4 from Serie A, 2 from Ligue Un, 3 from Bundesliga, 1 from Eredivisie, for example.
I doubt they will want 20, mind. Celtic and Rangers will be asking to join the PL again then too.
Allowing Celtic and Rangers to join the PL would be very hypocritical though wouldn’t it, as it would certainly be a crippling blow to the Scottish League.
To be fair, the standard of football is a crippling blow to the Scottish Leagues.
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That's tr bun fight right there.
In reality, they could be a bit more selective. Top 6 from EPL, 4 from La Liga, 4 from Serie A, 2 from Ligue Un, 3 from Bundesliga, 1 from Eredivisie, for example.
I doubt they will want 20, mind. Celtic and Rangers will be asking to join the PL again then too.
Allowing Celtic and Rangers to join the PL would be very hypocritical though wouldn’t it, as it would certainly be a crippling blow to the Scottish League.
To be fair, the standard of football is a crippling blow to the Scottish Leagues.
Yeah, I agree with that.
My point was though that people were suggesting that losing the top five or six clubs from our PL would be really bad news for clubs like us and surely if Celtic and Rangers were allowed into our PL it would be a death knell for some Scottish clubs.
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That's tr bun fight right there.
In reality, they could be a bit more selective. Top 6 from EPL, 4 from La Liga, 4 from Serie A, 2 from Ligue Un, 3 from Bundesliga, 1 from Eredivisie, for example.
I doubt they will want 20, mind. Celtic and Rangers will be asking to join the PL again then too.
Allowing Celtic and Rangers to join the PL would be very hypocritical though wouldn’t it, as it would certainly be a crippling blow to the Scottish League.
I'd let them join just to see the looks on the faces of Celtic fans as they finish 15th yet again and realisation slowly dawns on them.
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It is a pity it has not started this season, it would be great to see Manchester United the bottom of the league.
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"Champions League of 32 teams, a Europa League of 32 teams, and a Europa League 2 composed of 64 teams – with a maximum of five teams from the same national league per competition."
I make that up to 15 clubs from England making the switch, not 5 or 6.