Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: SydneyRover on June 14, 2019, 07:20:46 am
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''Another Etonian leader? Time for Labour to challenge the might of private schools''
''Robert Verkaik is the author of Posh Boys: How the English Public Schools Ruin Britain''
''Not since Harold Wilson’s government set up a commission to deal with the “public school problem” has the Palace of Westminster hosted an event that could bring about the dismantling of Britain’s educational apartheid. But MPs this week held a debate on a programme for radical reform of a two-tier system that provides an elite education for a tiny minority of the population, and divides Britain into winners and losers''
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/14/etonian-leader-labour-private-schools-boris-johnson-corbyn
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What does it matter which school/collage university someone went to as long as the best person for the job gets it?
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What does it matter which school/collage university someone went to as long as the best person for the job gets it?
Thanks for replying BP, it's a shame you don't appear to have read the link ......................''But MPs this week held a debate on a programme for radical reform of a two-tier system that provides an elite education for a tiny minority of the population, and divides Britain into winners and losers''
''Today, all the great institutions of state – government, judiciary and military – are run by a privileged few who have been sent to fee-paying schools. The figures speak for themselves. Only 7% of children attend a private school, yet privately educated pupils represent 74 % of senior judges, 71% of high-ranking officers in the armed forces, about half of all top diplomats and members of the House of Lords and, of course, 45% of Conservative MPs''
Is this how you like things being run in the UK with a privileged elite appointing 'their own' to the best jobs without merit screwing over those that smarter but were educated at the local high school?
This is how the country ended up in the shit with decisions made in the bullingdon club, agreements between friends.
But if this is what you like vote conservative and suck it up.
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Is the answer to drag down those elite institutions or to focus more on improving the non elite areas? There are many flaws in education and getting the standard schools up to scratch is a big challenge.
Is it all about funding? Partly yes and that's an issue to address but how do you create that money - we'll get in to economics here and that's not the point of the thread.
Equally will there not always be an elite and those that are better? The status is there it surely can't be undone now.
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Is it all about funding? Partly yes and that's an issue to address but how do you create that money - we'll get in to economics here and that's not the point of the thread.
For a start they could strip private schools of the charitable status they currently enjoy which means they benefit from approx £100 million tax rebates each year.
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Is it all about funding? Partly yes and that's an issue to address but how do you create that money - we'll get in to economics here and that's not the point of the thread.
For a start they could strip private schools of the charitable status they currently enjoy which means they benefit from approx £100 million tax rebates each year.
Agreed as there is an education provided by the state those that choose not to use it should pay for their own education.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/16/private-schools-charitable-status-strip-benefits
The main problem of course is those in the so called upper classes have over many many decades ensconced themselves in high office enabling the promotion of their fellows to the detriment of the rest of the population. Appointment to all positions of government and public companies should be by merit not connections.
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I did read it, what I don’t like is when people have a go at someone for what school or college ect that they went to, you say 45 percent of tories unless I’m mistaken it was around 18 percent of labour and 20 odd percent of Lib Dem’s to, but what I stand by what I said before the best person should get the job irrelevant of what school they went to
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I did read it, what I don’t like is when people have a go at someone for what school or college ect that they went to, you say 45 percent of tories unless I’m mistaken it was around 18 percent of labour and 20 odd percent of Lib Dem’s to, but what I stand by what I said before the best person should get the job irrelevant of what school they went to
So who do you think was the last public school educated PM that was the best person for the job?
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I am happy to be corrected here but are we not the only country in the world that has this two tier system?
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I am happy to be corrected here but are we not the only country in the world that has this two tier system?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_school
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I am happy to be corrected here but are we not the only country in the world that has this two tier system?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_school
That will be a no then, thanks Glyn.
It's interesting to compare that list to the secondary age performance rankings.
http://factsmaps.com/pisa-worldwide-ranking-average-score-of-math-science-reading/
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I did read it, what I don’t like is when people have a go at someone for what school or college ect that they went to, you say 45 percent of tories unless I’m mistaken it was around 18 percent of labour and 20 odd percent of Lib Dem’s to, but what I stand by what I said before the best person should get the job irrelevant of what school they went to
So who do you think was the last public school educated PM that was the best person for the job?
I’ve no idea who is best for any job as I don’t interview anyone, why should it matter where they were educated anyway glyn?
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Bpool.
It's very simple.
1) Whilever the richest in the country pay for their kids to be privately educated, there's no incentive for them to pay the taxes needed to make ALL our schools better.
2) Someone who achieves slightly lower educational qualifications at a Dearne Valley Comp than someone who went to Eton or Charterhouse is almost certainly a fundamentally more intelligent and resourceful person. So, as an employer, it matters very much to me where people went to school.
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I did read it, what I don’t like is when people have a go at someone for what school or college ect that they went to, you say 45 percent of tories unless I’m mistaken it was around 18 percent of labour and 20 odd percent of Lib Dem’s to, but what I stand by what I said before the best person should get the job irrelevant of what school they went to
BP, If people want to send their kids to private schools that fine by me also but having this charitable status costs the rest of the country over 500m. Is this fair? that the local state school maybe short of teachers, equipment and building maintenance and those that send their kids to state schools are paying for private schools.
''Theresa May pledged in the Conservative 2017 manifesto to force independent schools to sponsor a state school or risk losing their tax breaks (she later quietly dropped it). These are not insignificant sums. Between 2017-22, private schools will get tax rebates totalling £522m as a result of their status as charities''
Your last point about getting a job on merit is all well and good on paper but it is not happening is it? and I'll post the facts again:
''Today, all the great institutions of state – government, judiciary and military – are run by a privileged few who have been sent to fee-paying schools. The figures speak for themselves. Only 7% of children attend a private school, yet privately educated pupils represent 74 % of senior judges, 71% of high-ranking officers in the armed forces, about half of all top diplomats and members of the House of Lords and, of course, 45% of Conservative MPs''
It's clearly jobs for mates, no?
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And of course nearly 20 percent labour mps, in life it’s clearly jobs for mates in every way of life it always has been always will be, but it does not prove that because the went to a private school ect that they didn’t deserve that job
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And of course nearly 20 percent labour mps, in life it’s clearly jobs for mates in every way of life it always has been always will be, but it does not prove that because the went to a private school ect that they didn’t deserve that job
So what does it show BP? and are you happy to pay for them out of your hard earned?
''Only 7% of children attend a private school, yet privately educated pupils represent 74 % of senior judges, 71% of high-ranking officers in the armed forces, about half of all top diplomats and members of the House of Lords and, of course, 45% of Conservative MPs''
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If there the best people yes, can you show evidence that there not so we can discuss please
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If there the best people yes, can you show evidence that there not so we can discuss please
That's hardly an answer BP, the stats show that those tutored at private schools are disproportionately represented in high office it would be statistically improbable/impossible for all those people to be the best if all students were considered. I'll let those with a better understanding of statistics to give you a better answer.
It's all done with the secret handshake and our money, the fact that they keep on making stupid decisions should tell you they are not the best, the fact that they look after their own should tell you we are getting a dud deal.
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That happens no matter what school or collage you go to it happens in every form of life, if Corbyn gets in power he will give cabinet positions to who he thinks will stay loyal and close to him not necessarily who is best for the position will you kick a stink up about that?
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I did read it, what I don’t like is when people have a go at someone for what school or college ect that they went to, you say 45 percent of tories unless I’m mistaken it was around 18 percent of labour and 20 odd percent of Lib Dem’s to, but what I stand by what I said before the best person should get the job irrelevant of what school they went to
So who do you think was the last public school educated PM that was the best person for the job?
I’ve no idea who is best for any job as I don’t interview anyone, why should it matter where they were educated anyway glyn?
So you've no hindsight to know who was a good PM or not either. Quelle suprise.
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I could guess at who would be a good pm as you could but that’s all it would be as I don’t know them personally, I’m sure they all have good and bad points and only time will tell if they will be any good or not
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I could guess at who would be a good pm as you could but that’s all it would be as I don’t know them personally, I’m sure they all have good and bad points and only time will tell if they will be any good or not
I never asked you about who you thought would be a good PM. I asked you who you thought was the last good PM who went to a public school.
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Sorry Glynn I read your question wrong, no I can’t give you a answer as im 40 years old and in the time I’ve bothered looking at politics and don’t think there have been any stand out pms
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That happens no matter what school or collage you go to it happens in every form of life, if Corbyn gets in power he will give cabinet positions to who he thinks will stay loyal and close to him not necessarily who is best for the position will you kick a stink up about that?
The article/debate is not about who is in power or in government it's about those from private schools selecting their chums to similar positions. The conservative party is a whole different matter look at the the yougov poll and BST post titled: ''This is simply astonishing'' reply number 3593 on the brexit deal thread, which I won't repost here.
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I get that Sydney my point is do you no think if Corbyn gets in power he won’t select his chums to sit in the cabinet? Every job it happens everyway of life
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I get that Sydney my point is do you no think if Corbyn gets in power he won’t select his chums to sit in the cabinet? Every job it happens everyway of life
Would they be his school chums?
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I get that Sydney my point is do you no think if Corbyn gets in power he won’t select his chums to sit in the cabinet? Every job it happens everyway of life
That's a political situation BP forget that for a moment while we talk about out in the real world, I'm happy to discuss politics on another thread of your time and choosing.
A job is advertised internally-externally and defying probability more of those that attended private schools get the top jobs that put them in influential positions, is there something about that you don't understand BP or you do understand and are happy that all those who are born supposedly with equal rights in this country getting screwed over by a coterie of self appointed elites?
It's a personal choice BP if you are ok with the situation as described in the article I posted you're quite entitled to say so, I'm just trying to get an understanding of how you and others get to make up you minds on various matters that appear to me to grossly unequal to the general population.
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I get that Sydney my point is do you no think if Corbyn gets in power he won’t select his chums to sit in the cabinet? Every job it happens everyway of life
Would they be his school chums?
I can’t answer that as I don’t follow who his school chums are
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I thought it would be bloody obvious why we shouldn't keep voting for candidates who went to a highly exclusive private school, only grew up with friends and family from the top 1%, and had no real-life experience or understanding of what it means to be working class, or even middle class....
And when it comes to selecting government ministers, surely those ministers should be qualified or experienced in some way that relates to their ministerial position?
i.e. not like this guy: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/06/george-osborne-right-europe-wrong-economy
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I agree whoever is best qualified should get the job no matter what school or collage if any they went to, you could argue should millionaires be pm as do they grasp what is real life
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''Another Etonian leader? Time for Labour to challenge the might of private schools''
''Robert Verkaik is the author of Posh Boys: How the English Public Schools Ruin Britain''
''Not since Harold Wilson’s government set up a commission to deal with the “public school problem” has the Palace of Westminster hosted an event that could bring about the dismantling of Britain’s educational apartheid. But MPs this week held a debate on a programme for radical reform of a two-tier system that provides an elite education for a tiny minority of the population, and divides Britain into winners and losers''
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/14/etonian-leader-labour-private-schools-boris-johnson-corbyn
Are you not able to link to any other newspaper than that lefty rag?
Another day, another thread, and another link to the guardian by Sidney.
Yawn.
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''Another Etonian leader? Time for Labour to challenge the might of private schools''
''Robert Verkaik is the author of Posh Boys: How the English Public Schools Ruin Britain''
''Not since Harold Wilson’s government set up a commission to deal with the “public school problem” has the Palace of Westminster hosted an event that could bring about the dismantling of Britain’s educational apartheid. But MPs this week held a debate on a programme for radical reform of a two-tier system that provides an elite education for a tiny minority of the population, and divides Britain into winners and losers''
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/14/etonian-leader-labour-private-schools-boris-johnson-corbyn
Are you not able to link to any other newspaper than that lefty rag?
Another day, another thread, and another link to the guardian by Sidney.
Yawn.
You can always give us something enlightening you've read from the Sun or the Whopper BS.
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If he did thou Sydney all the left leaning voters would say it’s rubbish and the person giving there views had no credibility
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''Another Etonian leader? Time for Labour to challenge the might of private schools''
''Robert Verkaik is the author of Posh Boys: How the English Public Schools Ruin Britain''
''Not since Harold Wilson’s government set up a commission to deal with the “public school problem” has the Palace of Westminster hosted an event that could bring about the dismantling of Britain’s educational apartheid. But MPs this week held a debate on a programme for radical reform of a two-tier system that provides an elite education for a tiny minority of the population, and divides Britain into winners and losers''
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/14/etonian-leader-labour-private-schools-boris-johnson-corbyn
Are you not able to link to any other newspaper than that lefty rag?
Another day, another thread, and another link to the guardian by Sidney.
Yawn.
You can always give us something enlightening you've read from the Sun or the Whopper BS.
Why bother with biased newspapers at all? What's wrong with TV and radio news broadcasts?
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If he did thou Sydney all the left leaning voters would say it’s rubbish and the person giving there views had no credibility
Not if he gave us some credible supporting evidence, you should try doing that occasionally it would make your posts more credible BP.
It shouldn't matter which way newspapers lean providing they are accurate and that there is a balance of L/R media in any particular country.
Guardian named UK's most trusted newspaper
''The Guardian is the most trusted newspaper brand in the UK, a study by a non-partisan media research organisation has found.
The research, conducted by the US-based Pew Research Centre, found the Guardian was particularly trusted among readers aged 18 to 29''
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/oct/31/guardian-rated-most-trusted-newspaper-brand-in-uk-study
''How left or right-wing are the UK’s newspapers?''
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/03/07/how-left-or-right-wing-are-uks-newspapers
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''Another Etonian leader? Time for Labour to challenge the might of private schools''
''Robert Verkaik is the author of Posh Boys: How the English Public Schools Ruin Britain''
''Not since Harold Wilson’s government set up a commission to deal with the “public school problem” has the Palace of Westminster hosted an event that could bring about the dismantling of Britain’s educational apartheid. But MPs this week held a debate on a programme for radical reform of a two-tier system that provides an elite education for a tiny minority of the population, and divides Britain into winners and losers''
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/14/etonian-leader-labour-private-schools-boris-johnson-corbyn
Are you not able to link to any other newspaper than that lefty rag?
Another day, another thread, and another link to the guardian by Sidney.
Yawn.
You can always give us something enlightening you've read from the Sun or the Whopper BS.
Why bother with biased newspapers at all? What's wrong with TV and radio news broadcasts?
Because you can get more informed in-depth articles from which you can refer back to or compare when you want to know more download or reference, re-read later. I will often check a story from several different sources to try and get an idea who is using spin.
You can see quite plainly what I read, what do you watch Steve?
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''Another Etonian leader? Time for Labour to challenge the might of private schools''
''Robert Verkaik is the author of Posh Boys: How the English Public Schools Ruin Britain''
''Not since Harold Wilson’s government set up a commission to deal with the “public school problem” has the Palace of Westminster hosted an event that could bring about the dismantling of Britain’s educational apartheid. But MPs this week held a debate on a programme for radical reform of a two-tier system that provides an elite education for a tiny minority of the population, and divides Britain into winners and losers''
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/14/etonian-leader-labour-private-schools-boris-johnson-corbyn
Are you not able to link to any other newspaper than that lefty rag?
Another day, another thread, and another link to the guardian by Sidney.
Yawn.
You can always give us something enlightening you've read from the Sun or the Whopper BS.
Why bother with biased newspapers at all? What's wrong with TV and radio news broadcasts?
Because you can get more informed in-depth articles from which you can refer back to or compare when you want to know more download or reference, re-read later. I will often check a story from several different sources to try and get an idea who is using spin.
You can see quite plainly what I read, what do you watch Steve?
Love Island.
No; I ban my grand-daughter to her own bedroom to watch that sh*te.
I alternate between Sky News and BBC News, including the Press previews. I also watch Newsnight on BBC 2.
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If you read the BBC politics you may have seen this where Boris appears to have answer for most things with nothing to support his ideas.
''Boris Johnson defends Brexit plan and 'row' silence''
''Boris Johnson has admitted he would need EU co-operation to avoid a hard Irish border or crippling tariffs on trade in the event of no deal''
''In an exclusive interview with the BBC, the favourite to be next prime minister said: "It's not just up to us.
But he said he did "not believe for a moment" the UK would leave without a deal, although he was willing to do so''
(Interpretation: if you want to leave the EU without a deal then voting conservative will far from guarantee it)
''At the moment, the UK is due to leave the EU on 31 October after the PM's Brexit deal was rejected three times by Parliament.
Mr Johnson said he would be able to persuade Brussels to resolve the Irish border issue - a key sticking point - despite repeated warnings from EU leaders that that was impossible.
He said there were "abundant, abundant technical fixes" that could be made to avoid border checks.
When challenged that these do not exist yet, Mr Johnson replied: "Well, they do actually, you have in very large measure they do, you have trusted trader schemes, all sorts of schemes that you could put into place."
(No one at all has come forward with any ideas whatsoever to solve the Irish border without a backstop yet Boris wants everyone to believe in faeries)
''Mr Johnson's really controversial gamble is to say he could do a new trade deal with EU leaders before the end of October.
And he says he would be able do that before resolving the most controversial conundrum - how you fix the dilemma over the Irish border.
He clearly believes he has the political skill to pull that off. He and his supporters would say that is a plan.
But it is a plan that is full of ifs and buts - either heroic or foolhardy assumptions to imagine that EU leaders and Parliament would be ready to back his vision - and back it by Halloween - on an extremely tight deadline''
(Boris known cheat, liar, coward, spendthrift, racist and spoilt brat says he can do a deal where no one before him could)
And it goes on ......................
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48751527
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If he did thou Sydney all the left leaning voters would say it’s rubbish and the person giving there views had no credibility
Not if he gave us some credible supporting evidence, you should try doing that occasionally it would make your posts more credible BP.
It shouldn't matter which way newspapers lean providing they are accurate and that there is a balance of L/R media in any particular country.
Guardian named UK's most trusted newspaper
''The Guardian is the most trusted newspaper brand in the UK, a study by a non-partisan media research organisation has found.
The research, conducted by the US-based Pew Research Centre, found the Guardian was particularly trusted among readers aged 18 to 29''
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/oct/31/guardian-rated-most-trusted-newspaper-brand-in-uk-study
''How left or right-wing are the UK’s newspapers?''
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/03/07/how-left-or-right-wing-are-uks-newspapers
a lot of my posts are just opinion Sydney yes I prob am wrong a lot of the time but so be it mate, but you come on here to try and preach everyone of your posts is set out to discredit the tories or a Tory mp no matter what any labour mp has done you have not put a link up to make him or her look bad
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If he did thou Sydney all the left leaning voters would say it’s rubbish and the person giving there views had no credibility
Not if he gave us some credible supporting evidence, you should try doing that occasionally it would make your posts more credible BP.
It shouldn't matter which way newspapers lean providing they are accurate and that there is a balance of L/R media in any particular country.
Guardian named UK's most trusted newspaper
''The Guardian is the most trusted newspaper brand in the UK, a study by a non-partisan media research organisation has found.
The research, conducted by the US-based Pew Research Centre, found the Guardian was particularly trusted among readers aged 18 to 29''
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/oct/31/guardian-rated-most-trusted-newspaper-brand-in-uk-study
''How left or right-wing are the UK’s newspapers?''
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/03/07/how-left-or-right-wing-are-uks-newspapers
a lot of my posts are just opinion Sydney yes I prob am wrong a lot of the time but so be it mate, but you come on here to try and preach everyone of your posts is set out to discredit the tories or a Tory mp no matter what any labour mp has done you have not put a link up to make him or her look bad
The thing is BP the conservatives are providing all the ammunition without the means to defend themselves they are an utter shambles and regardless of what labour are doing they are not in power. I think Corbyn is acting appallingly by neglecting the younger voters that almost gave him power and I predicted a long time back that if May didn't back a second vote she would have to go and I said the same about JC.
BP, my comment copied below was meant to be more a rejoinder rather than a direct attack on your credibility I just wish that more people would provide links to show that their ideas have got some basis that could be discussed, I want those that disagree with me to show me a better way, tell me how the country should be run, tell me why Brexit is such a good idea especially the no-deal bit.
"Not if he gave us some credible supporting evidence, you should try doing that occasionally it would make your posts more credible BP''
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''The elite that failed''
''Britain’s political crisis exposes the inadequacy of its leaders''
''IN THE PAST year the British body politic has endured an astonishing list of maladies. The cabinet has lost a foreign secretary and two Brexit secretaries, not to mention lots of lesser fry. Parliament has voted to hold the government in contempt. The Conservative Party has held a vote of no confidence in the prime minister and left her badly wounded. And it is going to get worse. There is no parliamentary majority for any Brexit deal, and no way out of the impasse that won’t break promises—and possibly heads''
''There are two popular explanations for this mayhem. One is that Europe was always destined to tear Britain apart, since too many Britons loathe the evolution of the common market into a European Union. A second is that Brexit has provided a catalyst for a long-simmering civil war between successful Britain (which is metropolitan and liberal) and left-behind Britain (which is provincial and conservative). Both explanations have merit. But there is also a third''
https://www.economist.com/britain/2018/12/22/the-elite-that-failed