Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Copps is Magic on July 08, 2019, 07:48:11 pm

Title: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Copps is Magic on July 08, 2019, 07:48:11 pm
Four names now ''Understood to have been interviewed" by Liam Hoden confirmed as the 4 listed in this poll. 5th man/woman unknown.

Who do you prefer?
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Dare to dream! on July 08, 2019, 07:49:02 pm
Moore will obviously come out on top.

Appleton for me.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: donny dave on July 08, 2019, 07:51:38 pm
Is Kieth Hill the other option?
He would be my third choice behind Appleton and More.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: DonnyOsmond on July 08, 2019, 07:55:42 pm
The best manager, Appleton.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: donny dave on July 08, 2019, 08:03:53 pm
The best manager, Appleton.
I would not disagree with that
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Scooter on July 08, 2019, 08:09:32 pm
Please be Moore. Appleton doesn’t inspire me
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on July 08, 2019, 08:10:50 pm
Appleton ideally for me but if Moore gets it i will be happy enough too because it'll mean Appleton has not applied himself to research the job like GM did or that Moore simply was more thorough/impressive.

I trust our board to make a decision based on the reality of who interviews best and has the best track records (in context) rather than appeasing fans with a former favourite. Whoever gets it will get it on ability not former reputation which is how it should be.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: RoversAlias on July 08, 2019, 08:12:13 pm
You've listed them on the poll in the order I'd want them, at this point. Would get behind any of them and can see merits in them all but there is far more upside in Moore or Appleton than Flitcroft and Hudson, for me.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Jonathan on July 08, 2019, 08:17:52 pm
You've listed them on the poll in the order I'd want them, at this point. Would get behind any of them and can see merits in them all but there is far more upside in Moore or Appleton than Flitcroft and Hudson, for me.

I’d put A. N. Other ahead of Hudson. Otherwise I agree.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: DonnyOsmond on July 08, 2019, 08:24:25 pm
Please be Moore. Appleton doesn’t inspire me

One the fans of his last club still speak highly of and he's left a legacy there, the other the fans weren't fussed when he left. Oddly the latter is the one one that inspires you...
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: LincsRover on July 08, 2019, 08:28:22 pm
In this order :
Moore - potential and slight risk but I think he has attributes to be a very good manager, has rovers history so might not just do a GM and I like the fact he seems to be inspirational
Appleton - has better coaching credentials but has been around a bit and not always successful - and not very inspirational imho

That’s it really.... no’s to the rest

And, by the way, I was wrong about GM so know f*ck all, but like to give my opinion!  :rtid:
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Copps is Magic on July 08, 2019, 09:19:27 pm
Seems a two horse race as far as the fans are concerned...
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Dare to dream! on July 08, 2019, 09:22:08 pm
Seems a two horse race as far as the fans are concerned...

Imagine the uproar if it’s neither of them...
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: since-1969 on July 08, 2019, 09:23:19 pm
Seems a two horse race as far as the fans are concerned...
Since when have any of us got it correct !
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Rovers91 on July 08, 2019, 09:27:10 pm
I would be happy with Moore or Appleton.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on July 08, 2019, 09:41:42 pm
Yes, tend to agree that either of them, if successful, will have put a good case forward. Both have good coaching credentials.

Appleton by all accounts was close before and on face value, may tip the balance based on his previous experience.

I think Darren Moore would be more of a risk. Being thrust into a caretaker role WBA is a whole lot different to being the head honcho at a smaller club with a smaller backroom team.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Dare to dream! on July 08, 2019, 09:43:56 pm
Wonder if Appleton still being employed may cause some complications?
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Alan Southstand on July 08, 2019, 09:50:15 pm
Had a good chat with a former colleague today, who happens to be a baggies fan and he said we'd be delighted with Moore. Tried to play football the right way in his time as manager there, but was limited by the other people's player choices. He reckons he is an inspirational guy and very likeable.

What's not to like, eh?

Surely, we don't need this pantomime, when it's already been reported that we have sought extensive help and guidance from people within football.

Let's just hope, for all our sakes, that common sense will prevail. Yes DM's my preferred choice, but equally, there are some names that I wouldn't have anywhere near the manager's seat and they wouldn't have been on any short list of mine. That is the most concerning thing about this whole (supposedly streamlined) process.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on July 08, 2019, 09:50:45 pm
Wonder if Appleton still being employed may cause some complications?

I think in football a lot of the time they look after each other because you don't want to burn bridges etc so i'd expect Rodgers to let him leave for chance of managing club outright. They must know thats his ambition and he may have a clause in his contract to that effect as well.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on July 08, 2019, 09:54:18 pm
Had a good chat with a former colleague today, who happens to be a baggies fan and he said we'd be delighted with Moore. Tried to play football the right way in his time as manager there, but was limited by the other people's player choices. He reckons he is an inspirational guy and very likeable.

What's not to like, eh?

Surely, we don't need this pantomime, when it's already been reported that we have sought extensive help and guidance from people within football.

Let's just hope, for all our sakes, that common sense will prevail. Yes DM's my preferred choice, but equally, there are some names that I wouldn't have anywhere near the manager's seat and they wouldn't have been on any short list of mine. That is the most concerning thing about this whole (supposedly streamlined) process.

Agree theres a few you'd just never consider so seems a waste of time but if they've a full day to dedicate to it may as well fill it...

I kind of think a few like Hudson ect are just wildcards who there's nothing to lose from interviewing but a combination of the others asking too much/interviewing terribly and him playing a blinder would be needed for the job to go that way
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: pib on July 08, 2019, 09:55:46 pm
Wonder if Appleton still being employed may cause some complications?

I think in football a lot of the time they look after each other because you don't want to burn bridges etc so i'd expect Rodgers to let him leave for chance of managing club outright. They must know thats his ambition and he may have a clause in his contract to that effect as well.

I could be wrong but I'm not sure if he is. I know he was brought in to assist James Shan until the end of the season, but not sure what the state of play is now Slaven Bilic has arrived.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Alan Southstand on July 08, 2019, 09:57:59 pm
Seawards, Hudson's win ratio alone means he shouldn't even be interviewed.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on July 08, 2019, 10:03:10 pm
Seawards, Hudson's win ratio alone means he shouldn't even be interviewed.

Agreed i wouldn't interview him.

Just looked up Appleton i thought he was still at Leicester did't realise he went back to west brom. Wikipedia still says he's employed their at least. If Bilic wants to bring his own guys in they may let him go free to save paying compo themselves
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: drfchound on July 08, 2019, 10:05:54 pm
Had a good chat with a former colleague today, who happens to be a baggies fan and he said we'd be delighted with Moore. Tried to play football the right way in his time as manager there, but was limited by the other people's player choices. He reckons he is an inspirational guy and very likeable.

What's not to like, eh?

Surely, we don't need this pantomime, when it's already been reported that we have sought extensive help and guidance from people within football.

Let's just hope, for all our sakes, that common sense will prevail. Yes DM's my preferred choice, but equally, there are some names that I wouldn't have anywhere near the manager's seat and they wouldn't have been on any short list of mine. That is the most concerning thing about this whole (supposedly streamlined) process.






Perhaps the list of applicants wasn’t too inspiring after all and Hudson could have been the fifth best of a bad bunch.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Draytonian III on July 08, 2019, 10:26:09 pm
Gary Megson , he’s the man we should have ,more experience in management than the rest of them and I dare say his statistics would be up there as well
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: bpoolrover on July 08, 2019, 10:55:38 pm
If sod had not managed us and you looked at his record since us at a guess it woukd
Not be that impressive, a lot of football you need abit of luck players being available at right time the team bonding, when all said and done it’s the players on the pitch that get the results
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Jersey Rover on July 08, 2019, 11:07:23 pm
Just a feeling, but the A N Other might be a complete wide ball. GB in La Manga, The interviews not at the Keepmoat. Maybe me overthinking it, but all seems a bit cloak and dagger. Never boring being a Rovers fan. Waitbing in anticipation
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Dare to dream! on July 08, 2019, 11:08:58 pm
Just a feeling, but the A N Other might be a complete wide ball. GB in La Manga, The interviews not at the Keepmoat. Maybe me overthinking it, but all seems a bit cloak and dagger. Never boring being a Rovers fan. Waitbing in anticipation

There is still one candiate yet to be confirmed so maybe.

Hopefully we find out tomorrow
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: VivaRovers on July 08, 2019, 11:30:18 pm
Is Kieth Hill the other option?

No he isn't.

I'd be happiest with Moore, followed by the unnamed candidate, then Appleton.

Not keen on Flitcroft personally, and frankly don't known enough about Hudson.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Chris Black come back on July 09, 2019, 06:53:00 am
Both Moore and Flitcroft are ex-Dingle. So was McCann and we all know what happened there. Need to make sure during any interview process that it is clear they have shed their Dingling ways. Maybe something like the scene out of Clockwork Orange where the main guy has his eyes pinned open and made to watch horrific films. Can’t risk bringing Dingle ways into our club. Before we know it we will all be eating tripe and putting bets on for our Jud.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on July 09, 2019, 08:16:47 am
Maybe by now the strongest candidate has stood out and we have a new manager bar the shouting.

The rest is how the club manage the announcement. Normally I think the DFP and Radio Sheffield are told the time of the press conference so that's probably the likely source of when we will know.

I'm still edging my bets and think Thursday around 11am will be the official announcement.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: jackthelad on July 09, 2019, 08:21:03 am
I think it'll be Thursday too.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Branton Rover on July 09, 2019, 08:27:28 am
Because someone once had an association with Barnsley doesn’t make them persona non grata - have you not heard the word rehabilitation - no problem with Barnsley personally it’s the Millers/Iron who are the enemy in my book
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: NickDRFC on July 09, 2019, 08:30:55 am
I think Thursday morning is realistic. Job offered later today, considered/negotiated and hopefully accepted tomorrow, announcement Thursday.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on July 09, 2019, 08:41:02 am
Indeed realistically could be a bit longer, but no doubt we'd all like it more quickly.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: the vicar on July 09, 2019, 09:05:27 am
I don't know why people want DM  he players defensive football and an ex player it is heart ruling your head. Do you remember the last time we had ex players manage the club, the Snodins that did not go to well did it. We can't run a club on sentiment
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: ChrisBx on July 09, 2019, 09:15:46 am
I don't know why people want DM  he players defensive football and an ex player it is heart ruling your head. Do you remember the last time we had ex players manage the club, the Snodins that did not go to well did it. We can't run a club on sentiment

Didn't Moore leave WBA as the highest scorers in the division? Oddly, their issue was the defence yet people blindly regurgitate comments about overly defensive football.

Even if his football at WBA was defensive, he inherited a squad built largely by Pardew and Pulis which would take a while to re-build.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: anton123 on July 09, 2019, 09:35:30 am
GB said the announcement could be later today if all goes to plan   
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Dr Fundlekrotch on July 09, 2019, 09:38:53 am
I don't know why people want DM  he players defensive football and an ex player it is heart ruling your head. Do you remember the last time we had ex players manage the club, the Snodins that did not go to well did it. We can't run a club on sentiment


I beg to differ, Vicar. 

The Snodins did really well at what they were brought in for - to galvanise the club, the supporters and the town and get the Club back on its feet.  in their first year, with no pre-season, they had us finish 15th or 16th when all of the predictions were that we were on a downward spiral into the non-league abyss.  And we won a trophy and we even won in the first round of the FA Cup for God knows how long

JR may have divided opinion in recent years but bringing the Snodins in was a masterstroke as his first move
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: the vicar on July 09, 2019, 09:46:52 am
No they didn't we almost went down fact, I loved the snodds but we set off OK but it went down the pan a bit after
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: idler on July 09, 2019, 09:51:42 am
I agree, that appointment united the fan base and gave us the figureheads to regroup around. It was just a shame that it had to end in the way that it did but it was the right fix at the right time. I also think that Ian was never cut out to be a manager and realised that when he failed to turn as around in that second season.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: the vicar on July 09, 2019, 09:52:05 am
I don't know why people want DM  he players defensive football and an ex player it is heart ruling your head. Do you remember the last time we had ex players manage the club, the Snodins that did not go to well did it. We can't run a club on sentiment

Didn't Moore leave WBA as the highest scorers in the division? Oddly, their issue was the defence yet people blindly regurgitate comments about overly defensive football.

Even if his football at WBA was defensive, he inherited a squad built largely by Pardew and Pulis which would take a while to re-build.
did our board say they want the new manager to adopt attacking and existing football, Well DM is not that manager, as a person he is said to be a lovely guy he may be that but a flamboyant manager he is not.  But if he gets the job I will be right behind him or whoever gets it
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: idler on July 09, 2019, 09:57:57 am
As stated previously DM was tasked with turning round the form of a team composed of somebody else’s players. He made a decent job of that and almost kept them up. Perhaps given time his team might have been more expansive and flamboyant.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: the vicar on July 09, 2019, 10:09:13 am
It's not his style mate, defenders usually play defensive football as that is what they know, but there can always be a one off but managers usually do what they know
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: IDM on July 09, 2019, 10:22:21 am
Managers also have assistants, possibly ex players from a different position..

Just saying..
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: the vicar on July 09, 2019, 10:42:50 am
Managers also have assistants, possibly ex players from a different position..

Just saying..
And there is the point assistant's are what it says and not managers the manager makes the decisions not the assignment
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: IDM on July 09, 2019, 10:44:36 am
Yes but a decent manager will listen to his assistant you would think.?
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: RoversAlias on July 09, 2019, 10:56:52 am
This ex defender equals defensive football notion is baseless. Dickov was a striker and we couldn't score for toffee under him. McCann was a holding midfielder and we played expansive, attractive football. The manager's playing career doesn't influence in that way, it is a team game after all.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Wild Rover on July 09, 2019, 11:02:44 am
I don't know why people want DM  he players defensive football and an ex player it is heart ruling your head. Do you remember the last time we had ex players manage the club, the Snodins that did not go to well did it. We can't run a club on sentiment

Dave. Earlier you stated that no ex player had ben a success at DRFC ( or something similar ). Don't forget Dave Penny mate.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: the vicar on July 09, 2019, 11:13:04 am
Quote from: Wild Roverlink=topic=273013.msg878449#msg878449 date=1562666564
I don't know why people want DM  he players defensive football and an ex player it is heart ruling your head. Do you remember the last time we had ex players manage the club, the Snodins that did not go to well did it. We can't run a club on sentiment

Dave. Earlier you stated that no ex player had ben a success at DRFC ( or something similar ). Don't forget Dave Penny mate.
OK Paul I will give you that one but I don't like ex players as managers not if they are legends as such as if they do a bad job of it there lagends status wi vanish
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: drfchound on July 09, 2019, 11:30:18 am
Well, it looks as though the majority on here are hoping for Moore.
There will be much disappointment if someone else gets the job.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: NickDRFC on July 09, 2019, 11:40:49 am
It's not his style mate, defenders usually play defensive football as that is what they know, but there can always be a one off but managers usually do what they know

What a load of rubbish - Mauricio Pochettino was a defender and Pep Guardiola about as defensive a midfielder as they come yet they have no problem getting their teams playing attacking football.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Alan Southstand on July 09, 2019, 11:49:36 am
I'd rather believe what a WBA long time supporter tells me about DM, and 'defensive football' was never ever referred to in my conversations with him.

He was described as an inspirational manager and a leader of men and certainly had everyone pulling in the right direction at Albion. He is the 'stand out' candidate as far as I'm concerned and the rest are way behind.

The question is who will get us competing again, against sides who are busying themselves improving on what they had last season? I know who I want and especially when you look at the rest of them on the shortlist.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Dare to dream! on July 09, 2019, 11:55:10 am
People who want Moore are thinking with their heart rather than head.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: DonnyOsmond on July 09, 2019, 12:01:48 pm
People who want Moore are thinking with their heart rather than head.


Dis.

Luckily our board weren't here when he was so won't give DM the job purely based on sentiment.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Silkscarf on July 09, 2019, 12:07:51 pm
DM is a keen bible-thumper. This always puts me off people and makes me question whether they can think critically and rationally about other things.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: DRFC_TID_93 on July 09, 2019, 12:13:16 pm
People who want Moore are thinking with their heart rather than head.


Not necessarily. I don't remember Moore as he was before my time, but he'd be the stand out choice for me. Several of my WBA mates say he united the club, played exciting attacking football and with more time to get his own players in, would have been able to put his on style on the team and challenge even if they hadn't got promotion this year. Out of what's been mentioned, I wouldn't have minded the Motherwell boss, but Moore would be in that top 2, based on results and contacts, not him being an ex player
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: the vicar on July 09, 2019, 12:32:18 pm
This ex defender equals defensive football notion is baseless. Dickov was a striker and we couldn't score for toffee under him. McCann was a holding midfielder and we played expansive, attractive football. The manager's playing career doesn't influence in that way, it is a team game after all.
I think different but there is where our thoughts are different
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: RoversAlias on July 09, 2019, 12:38:36 pm
This is true Vicar. Personally I'd be optimistic about Moore, we can grow along with him and hopefully he'd have more loyalty than McCann.

I never saw Moore play for us as he left shortly before I started going, but he's my first choice of the candidates we know.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: MachoMadness on July 09, 2019, 02:10:48 pm
There's a difference between how you think positionally as a player and how you set whole teams up as a manager. If there isn't, then you probably won't make a very good manager!
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: the vicar on July 09, 2019, 03:54:25 pm
It's not his style mate, defenders usually play defensive football as that is what they know, but there can always be a one off but managers usually do what they know

What a load of rubbish - Mauricio Pochettino was a defender and Pep Guardiola about as defensive a midfielder as they come yet they have no problem getting their teams playing attacking football.
your view is your view as mine is mine so watch who you call a load of rubbish  or the comments an individual makes
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: glosterred on July 09, 2019, 04:15:25 pm
There’s going to be a lot of disappointed fans if DM doesn’t get the gig


COYR
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: jackthelad on July 09, 2019, 04:21:04 pm
The majority have spoken!
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: drfchound on July 09, 2019, 04:25:18 pm
There’s going to be a lot of disappointed fans if DM doesn’t get the gig


COYR






I said the same on here earlier today mate.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Bristol Red Rover on July 09, 2019, 04:36:15 pm
If the board give an iota of credence to what the fans think on this I'd be both shocked and disappointed. I expect them to wisely choose the man who fits THEIR requirements.

Not one for the "Hit Parade", though I am personally favouring Appleton, wouldn't be disappointed with Moore, but Hudson is the wildcard that intrigues me - as does A.N.Other!
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: scawsby steve on July 09, 2019, 04:39:25 pm
DM is a keen bible-thumper. This always puts me off people and makes me question whether they can think critically and rationally about other things.

What a f*cking ridiculous post. Do you question whether Sir Isaac Newton could think critically and rationally about things?
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Bristol Red Rover on July 09, 2019, 04:42:32 pm
DM is a keen bible-thumper. This always puts me off people and makes me question whether they can think critically and rationally about other things.

What a f*cking ridiculous post. Do you question whether Sir Isaac Newton could think critically and rationally about things?

Posh boy who had to be literally thumped on the head by a ton of apple before considering there is something behind stuff falling down.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: scawsby steve on July 09, 2019, 04:48:08 pm
DM is a keen bible-thumper. This always puts me off people and makes me question whether they can think critically and rationally about other things.

What a f*cking ridiculous post. Do you question whether Sir Isaac Newton could think critically and rationally about things?

Posh boy who had to be literally thumped on the head by a ton of apple before considering there is something behind stuff falling down.

So you're cleverer than he was? OK.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Silkscarf on July 09, 2019, 04:49:39 pm
DM is a keen bible-thumper. This always puts me off people and makes me question whether they can think critically and rationally about other things.

What a f*cking ridiculous post. Do you question whether Sir Isaac Newton could think critically and rationally about things?

Yes.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on July 09, 2019, 04:56:56 pm
If the board give an iota of credence to what the fans think on this I'd be both shocked and disappointed. I expect them to wisely choose the man who fits THEIR requirements.

Not one for the "Hit Parade", though I am personally favouring Appleton, wouldn't be disappointed with Moore, but Hudson is the wildcard that intrigues me - as does A.N.Other!

Quite right. I'm sure Appleton would be many folks second choice too. I only voted Appleton based on his previous experience but the board are the ones who get to look at them directly in the eyes and ask the right questions!
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: scawsby steve on July 09, 2019, 05:02:09 pm
DM is a keen bible-thumper. This always puts me off people and makes me question whether they can think critically and rationally about other things.

What a f*cking ridiculous post. Do you question whether Sir Isaac Newton could think critically and rationally about things?

Yes.

Hahahaha.
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: Bristol Red Rover on July 09, 2019, 05:04:39 pm
DM is a keen bible-thumper. This always puts me off people and makes me question whether they can think critically and rationally about other things.

What a f*cking ridiculous post. Do you question whether Sir Isaac Newton could think critically and rationally about things?

Posh boy who had to be literally thumped on the head by a ton of apple before considering there is something behind stuff falling down.

So you're cleverer than he was? OK.
I could manage a footy team better, though admire his work on alchemy and calculus. I think I win ;)
Title: Re: Last minute manager poll
Post by: NickDRFC on July 09, 2019, 05:09:54 pm
It's not his style mate, defenders usually play defensive football as that is what they know, but there can always be a one off but managers usually do what they know

What a load of rubbish - Mauricio Pochettino was a defender and Pep Guardiola about as defensive a midfielder as they come yet they have no problem getting their teams playing attacking football.
your view is your view as mine is mine so watch who you call a load of rubbish  or the comments an individual makes

I’m not calling you a load of rubbish, I’m calling your opinion that defensive players become defensive managers a load of rubbish, and I stand by it. I’ve already given you 2 examples and there are plenty more out there.