Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: tommy toes on August 09, 2019, 06:45:58 pm
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The economy has shrunk(what a surprise) for the first time since 2012.
The pound is as low as it's been for 3 years. Manufacturing and construction are on the floor.
The chancellor would like to deal with it but can't see his papers due to the flippin power being off.
Happy Brexit days eh?
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Point of fact.
Last time the pound was this low against the dollar, our back four was
Brian Caswell
Dave Cusack
Tony Brown
Mickey Stead
Well done lads. This taking back control thing is working grand int it? We've taken back control of making our country a f**k load poorer.
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Aye but at least it was our decision and not f**king Poirot eh. :silly:
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Meanwhile in Brussels...
European economy is forecast to continue expanding for the seventh year in a row in 2019, with real GDP expected to grow in all EU Member States. As global uncertainties continue to weigh, domestic dynamics are set to support the European economy. Growth is expected to gather pace again next year.
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Looks like BB is going to get that recession he keeps moaning about not happening.
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Looks like BB is going to get that recession he keeps moaning about not happening.
Don't. Just...don't. He'll not be happy because it was supposed to have happened 3 years ago...
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Looks like BB is going to get that recession he keeps moaning about not happening.
Don't. Just...don't. He'll not be happy because it was supposed to have happened 3 years ago...
That's just him all over. He knows he can't argue about the fact Brexit's put us in the shit, so he quibbles that the experts didn't get the depth of the shit accurate to the millimetre.
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Latest Year on Year GDP growth within the G7
US - +2.3%
Canada - +1.3%
France - +1.3%
UK - +1.2%
Eurozone - + 1.1%
Japan - +0.9%
Germany - 0.7%
Italy - 0%
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HA.
You're doing that selective thing again.
Since the start of 2017, when it started to become clear that we were angling for a Hard Brexit, there have been 10 quarters of reported GDP growth.
In only 2 of those (Q4 2018 and Q1 2019) has the UK had higher GDP growth the EU as a whole. And we know that one of those quarters of decent apparent UK growth was due to stockpiling as insurance against a March Brexit.
Throughout 2017 and most of 2018, our economic growth nosedived while the EU had a strong boom. We lost out on something up to £100bn of economic output because of that underperformance.
Yes the EU economy and the world economy are slowing rapidly now. As are we. The difference is, they were making hay in the good times in 17/18 while we were stagnating. We didn't get the boom but we're suffering the slowdown just like everyone else. There may well be a global recession on the way. Lots of economic indicators are showing that. In which case, it will hit us all the harder because we've already had 30 months of historically very low growth since end end of 2016 (following on from 6 years of anaemic recovery from the Great Recession because of the bone-headed stupidity of Austerity.)
No one's lifting your shirt here. The economic consequences of the 2016 vote have already been a disaster for us, and they will get worse. You hang on to the occasional bit of what you think to be good news if you wish, but if you're going to be grown up about it, you need to stand back and see the big picture.
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Selective?? How do you come by that? Having anticipated the type of response the figures could generate I deliberately didn’t make any comment other than providing the figures. How you, or anyone else, analyses these is up to you/them.
Here’s another figure for you - French industrial output is down by 2.3% in June
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Because you're looking only at a very particular time.
As I say, it is very likely that the whole world is going to tip into recession. Everywhere is slowing down. We are an exceptional case because we're slowing down from an existing position of already having had an extended spell of historically very sluggish growth.
You're being selective because you've said nowt about that extended period.
PS.
Point of fact. Germany's annual GDP growth rate is +0.7% not -0.7%.
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Point of fact.
Last time the pound was this low against the dollar, our back four was
Brian Caswell
Dave Cusack
Tony Brown
Mickey Stead
Look how well we've done since!
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Looks like BB is going to get that recession he keeps moaning about not happening.
Don't. Just...don't. He'll not be happy because it was supposed to have happened 3 years ago...
That's just him all over. He knows he can't argue about the fact Brexit's put us in the shit, so he quibbles that the experts didn't get the depth of the shit accurate to the millimetre.
it's people like you that are the problem, Mr Wiggerly. People who are so patronising and boring that they are even incapable of making shit stick.
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Looks like BB is going to get that recession he keeps moaning about not happening.
Don't. Just...don't. He'll not be happy because it was supposed to have happened 3 years ago...
That's just him all over. He knows he can't argue about the fact Brexit's put us in the shit, so he quibbles that the experts didn't get the depth of the shit accurate to the millimetre.
it's people like you that are the problem, Mr Wiggerly. People who are so patronising and boring that they are even incapable of making shit stick.
Irony alert!
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Brexit is like a Disney film. It'll all be ok if we BELIEVE.
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.....Well, bloody believe then!
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Not patronising much then, eh?
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When my father-in-law got lung cancer, he was persuaded by some bas**rd that he could be cured by taking vitamin C injections and having regular gall bladder enemas.
He believed that. He used to say that he was going to carry on believing he was cured.
He died.
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.....Well, bloody believe then!
Maybe we would if you could be arsed to tell us what is going to be good about it and what you want.
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When my father-in-law got lung cancer, he was persuaded by some bas**rd that he could be cured by taking vitamin C injections and having regular gall bladder enemas.
He believed that. He used to say that he was going to carry on believing he was cured.
He died.
When my dad was dying of lung cancer I told him he was going to be OK. I suppose I was a right bas**rd.
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Sorry to hear we've been through a similar trauma BB. Slightly different circumstances though.
In the case of the bas**rd who deceived my father-in-law, he took nearly £5000 off him after convincing him to believe. So he enriched himself by playing on someone's desperate belief.
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The majority of the voters in the referendum believed that the UK is being deceived by the EU, who convinced us to hand over £9 Billion every year. They might feel that the EU is getting enriched by playing on Remainers beliefs.
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You can read their minds now, can you?
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BB
So we agree that relying on faith and hope and belief when there are factual analyses to be had is not a good policy.
Glad we've sorted that one out. It's another rabbit hole we won't have to wander down in future.
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You can read their minds now, can you?
You don't have to be telepathic to know which way the majority of people voted, but you have to be pretty telepathetic to ignore them.
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BB
So we agree that relying on faith and hope and belief when there are factual analyses to be had is not a good policy.
Glad we've sorted that one out. It's another rabbit hole we won't have to wander down in future.
BST, when we agree that carrying out a democratic vote is good policy then we'll have gone a long way towards sorting our differences out.
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You can read their minds now, can you?
You don't have to be telepathic to know which way the majority of people voted, but you have to be pretty telepathetic to ignore them.
You weren't talking about which way they voted. You said you know the reasons behind which way they voted. Are you claiming you're telepathic now or just plain bullshitting again?
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The majority of the voters in the referendum believed that the UK is being deceived by the EU, who convinced us to hand over £9 Billion every year. They might feel that the EU is getting enriched by playing on Remainers beliefs.
They might have changed their minds though, I mean you did...
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BB
Our Govt has spent the past three years trying to implement that vote and running into precisely the practical difficulties that some of us were predicting 3 years ago.
The current Govt is now saying none of that ever happened and we're going to repeat the process at 78 rpm over the next ten weeks, in the expectation that something else will happen.
By October, we'll have spent 40 months trying to implement the Will of the People and after that, apparently, we're going to implement a policy that everyone on the Leave side in
2016 said was Project Fear, no-one seriously discussed then and no majority in the country, then or now, wants. And that decision has been made by a PM put into place by 66% of the votes of a group of people who comprise 0.35% of the electorate, advised by an unelected guru who is under criminal investigation for breaking electoral law.
And the possibility that, in light of this, it might make sense to ask the electorate if this is what they still want is, apparently, an outrageous betrayal.
Odd concept of democracy you have there.
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You can read their minds now, can you?
You don't have to be telepathic to know which way the majority of people voted, but you have to be pretty telepathetic to ignore them.
You weren't talking about which way they voted. You said you know the reasons behind which way they voted. Are you claiming you're telepathic now or just plain bullshitting again?
So you can read MY mind now Mr Wiggerly, can you!
I was talking about which way and why they (the majority) voted to leave. They did so because they felt we were being deceived - cheated, conned, fooled, ripped off by what we get out of the EU for the cost of being in it.
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BB
Our Govt has spent the past three years trying to implement that vote and running into precisely the practical difficulties that some of us were predicting 3 years ago.
The current Govt is now saying none of that ever happened and we're going to repeat the process at 78 rpm over the next ten weeks, in the expectation that something else will happen.
By October, we'll have spent 40 months trying to implement the Will of the People and after that, apparently, we're going to implement a policy that everyone on the Leave side in
2016 said was Project Fear, no-one seriously discussed then and no majority in the country, then or now, wants. And that decision has been made by a PM put into place by 66% of the votes of a group of people who comprise 0.35% of the electorate, advised by an unelected guru who is under criminal investigation for breaking electoral law.
And the possibility that, in light of this, it might make sense to ask the electorate if this is what they still want is, apparently, an outrageous betrayal.
Odd concept of democracy you have there.
BST. Any deal struck with the EU should have been done after we'd left and not as part of the deal to leave.
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The majority of the voters in the referendum believed that the UK is being deceived by the EU, who convinced us to hand over £9 Billion every year. They might feel that the EU is getting enriched by playing on Remainers beliefs.
They might have changed their minds though, I mean you did...
I'm thinking of changing my mind because I don't want to be on the same side as the Remoaners. They have conducted themselves disgracefully and I don't want to be associated with them.
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Go on BB.
Which bits did they feel we were being deceived about?
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BB
So we agree that relying on faith and hope and belief when there are factual analyses to be had is not a good policy.
Glad we've sorted that one out. It's another rabbit hole we won't have to wander down in future.
BST, when we agree that carrying out a democratic vote is good policy then we'll have gone a long way towards sorting our differences out.
The 2016 referendum was anything but a democratic vote.
The vast majority of those who voted had no idea about the machinations of leaving.
The main sticking point ie the NI Issue certainly wasn't something I was aware of, and I'll bet not many were.
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BB.
But things don't work like that do they? You don't jump off a cliff and then design a parachute.
And in any case, the scenario you are proposing (leave and THEN sort out a deal) is explicitly NOT what the Leave campaign told us would happen. So I assume you accept that your expectation is an outlier?
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But that comparison is only a good analogy in the minds of those who actually think we are jumping off a cliff before we've designed a parachute. Most people would think it's a ridiculous analogy.
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Right.
So this thing about the Govt planning for 20 mile queues on the M20, for us not having access to chemicals to clean water at treatment works, for the special fund set up to deal with the fall out of companies going bust, for the issues that will arise at the Irish border on the day we left with an arrangement? That's all business as usual then is it?
And if we left without arranging anything with the EU, then sorted it all out afterwards, what would happen to the importation of radioactive medical products? To the exportation of livestock? To the 5bn quids worth of research contracts paid by the EU that our universities and high tech companies are involved in? What about UK drivers who need to drive in Europe after we left - would their insurance and licences be valid? Etc, etc, etc...
What WOULD your definition of jumping off a cliff be then?
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The problem is I only personally know two people who have changed their mind about Brexit and they would now vote to leave. I reckon fewer people take the scaremongering seriously since previous scaremongering proved to be just that, and because of the determination of Remoaners to stop Brexit, they deem democracy to be more serious a loss than leaving the EU.
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So which bit of current scaremongering are you talking about?
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If any of them read this forum they'd probably say your latest bit of scaremongering in your last post!
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Is it the National Farmers' Union who are trying to pull the wool over your eyes?
https://www.nfuonline.com/news/latest-news/why-a-no-deal-brexit-is-catastrophic-for-british-farming/
Or is it the BMA that are pissballing you?
https://www.bma.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/2018/august/no-deal-brexit-could-be-catastrophic-for-health
CBI?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49142762
TUC?
https://www.napo.org.uk/blogs/brexit-tuc-view
What about the Road Haulage industry? Are they in on the act of trying to scare you?
https://www.rha.uk.net/news/press-releases/2018-07-july/brexit-and-the-uk-haulage-industry-%E2%80%93-no-deal-no-jobs-no-food
Airlines? Are they in on it as well?
https://www.aerotime.aero/zivile.zalagenaite/23777-ryanair-to-fire-900-pilots-and-cabin-crew-blames-max-and-brexit
https://www.ft.com/content/4de95ff8-4419-11e9-a965-23d669740bfb
Or what about the Govt itself, pissing £2.5bn up the wall in preparation for No Deal...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49183324
...and setting up a fund to bail out the companies that will go bust after Brexit?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bailout-fund-to-prop-up-businesses-after-brexit-8w2883fz2
Wow! That's quite a bunch of people to be involved in a conspiracy to scare you.
Tell me. Who are the ones telling you it'll be just fine?
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Nobody's pissballing me owd lad, including you. Like I've said all along, it's not what I think that matters, it's what the majority of people think. And if the majority of people democratically vote for summat, it is the duty of the government to deliver it.
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Right.
So you accept that there are a lot of very responsible and serious organisations who are extremely concerned about the situation that we as a nation are tipping ourselves into, but you prefer to duck about talking about scaremongering.
And around the wheel we go again.
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No doubt there are responsible organisations that are serious about their concerns, but because of irresponsible scaremongerers who simply want Brexit to fail, it is not surprising that a lot of people refuse to take legitimate concerns seriously.
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No snap on the shelves; no strikers for the Rovers.
We're all doomed, I tell ye, all doomed.
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''They did so because they felt we were being deceived - cheated, conned, fooled, ripped off by what we get out of the EU for the cost of being in it''
But now we know that this was totally incorrect and we in fact get a dividend by being part of the EU and that people's live are better because of the EU especially those less well off and have better employment and human rights protections you would think that at least the smart ones would change their minds and consider staying within the EU. And especially knowing that the racist cheat and liar that now occupies No 10 spread a lot of those lies himself and that some of his cohort are before the courts because of their deception.
And again absolutely zero answers, no information about what will be improved by leaving nor what outcomes you want, no answer about who was scaremongering about what or why, nada, but a vague naive statement that we should have negotiated a plan after having left????????
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What do you mean we know now that was totally incorrect? How do you arrive at that hypothesis?
Don't tell me, the Guardian said!
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What do you mean we know now that was totally incorrect? How do you arrive at that hypothesis?
Don't tell me, the Guardian said!
The only people doing the deceiving is the leave camp and you deceiving yourself
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Who told you that? The Guardian?
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Who told you that? The Guardian?
Is that all you have left bb?
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I have nothing left SR.
I'm more to the right.
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As BB and BJ move into final negotiations, ang on a minnit, they won't negotiate with the EU? oh that's probably because the EU have intimated after 3 years of faffing around BB and BJ are out of ideas and especially as the EU have said ''no more'' the doubtless dynamic duo move on to renegotiate the backstop despite being told on many occasions that unless you offer a viable alternative there is nothing to talk about and Ireland tell them point blank there are ''no negotiations'' undeturd the double entendre move on to discuss what they will say to the Mercans about a beautiful trade deal except that the USA has told them trade deals are no-go if you f#ck with the backstop, despite all the setbacks bb says to bj ''why don't we just leave no-deal now! show everyone our cards, paint ourselves into a corner, hang ourselves out to dry, shoot ourselves in the kneecaps and then demand the best deals from them all, high fives all around yeh, whoop, :(
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.....That was a party political broadcast by the Britain Surrendering Together Party.
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Followed by a lack of comment by the Britain Shrugging Its Shoulders Party.
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It's great when you've actually got shoulders to shrug.
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The greatest decade ever for working class people was the 60s. I know because I lived through it; and I'm not just talking about the Beatles, Muhammad Ali, and England winning the World Cup; I'm talking about zero unemployment, safe streets, and working class pleasures such as beer, fish and chips, and football being ridiculously cheap; and guess what? we weren't even in the f*cking EU, or Common Market, or whatever it called itself then.
So forgive me if I don't see this wonderful Utopia we're supposed to be living in now.
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The greatest decade ever for working class people was the 60s. I know because I lived through it; and I'm not just talking about the Beatles, Muhammad Ali, and England winning the World Cup; I'm talking about zero unemployment, safe streets, and working class pleasures such as beer, fish and chips, and football being ridiculously cheap; and guess what? we weren't even in the f*cking EU, or Common Market, or whatever it called itself then.
So forgive me if I don't see this wonderful Utopia we're supposed to be living in now.
Aye them wot days. I were there n'all.
Thing is we did join the EU and for the last 40 years we've enmeshed ourselves in its laws, finances, customs and practices.
I'm not saying the EU is perfect but it's a hundred times better that what this government is planning.
The latest shrinkage in our economy is nothing compared to what we're in for further down the line.
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SS
You DO know why we were so desperate to join the EEC by 1970 don't you?
Because the EEC countries had been dramatically out-performing us economically for the past decade.
And you do know that we matched or out-performed them all from 1975 onwards?
I assume you do know that?
I assume you also know that Brexit isn't going to make you 20 again?
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Before we joined the EU in 1973 I had dark brown hair and was bloody gorgeous. Now, because of the strain of being in the EU, I'm a wrinkly, grey-haired, stressed out ugly looking bas**rd.
It simply wasn't worth it.
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Before we joined the EU in 1973 I had dark brown hair and was bloody gorgeous. Now, because of the strain of being in the EU, I'm a wrinkly, grey-haired, stressed out ugly looking bas**rd.
It simply wasn't worth it.
Exactly the same as my transformation from a Mungo Jerry lookalike to a f*cking gargoyle.
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Yeah and mine from David Soul to Uncle Fester.
(Mind you David Soul dunt look too good these days)
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I went from Jack Wild to Jack Duckworth. He doesn't look too good either these days!
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They did so because they felt we were being deceived - cheated, conned, fooled, ripped off by what we get out of the EU for the cost of being in it.
Presumably if you don't like being deceived, conned, fooled or ripped off, you're not a fan of this chap then? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-lies-conservative-leader-candidate-list-times-banana-brexit-bus-a8929076.html