Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Ldr on September 05, 2019, 05:10:26 pm
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I'll go out on a limb and say it. If labour dump him, they win.
I feel there will be a lot like me, who identify as centre right who currently couldn't consider voting for the bat shit craziness that is Boris nor could we ever consider voting for a party led by Corbyn (and Abbott or McDonnell ) goes back to my posts about personalities being more important than policies
It must be a decent pool of potential voters
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Labours best option would be Kier Starmer.
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These are fair points but they won't get a hearing in the Labour party at the moment. There's an unshakable conviction that Labour got 40% in 2017 because Corbyn was wildly popular, rather than because there wasn't a realistic anti-Tory alternative then. And an equally unshakable refusal to engage with polls that have him as the most unpopular Leader of the Opposition in history.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he will turn it round again. But the problem is that he's frittered away the popularity he did have in 2017 among Remain supporters and they've poured out to the LDs and Greens. It is a monumental job to pull them back.
To me, the outcome of the upcoming election depends on whether there is very sophisticated tactical voting on the centre and left and whether the BP and Tory parties have an informal alliance.
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It’s a cruel twist of fate that at the very time we have the worst, most odious, most dangerous Government in my lifetime (ok, a close contest with Thatcher I admit) that at the same time we have such a terrible leader of the Labour Party.
It is sad beyond words. Any decent leader and we could look forward to a Labour landslide.
As it stands, I find myself looking at my options in the imminent G.E. and really scratching my head.
I watched Tony Blair speaking about Brexit the other night and found myself hoping for a Fairy Godmother to grant me a wish to bring him back.
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Excerpts from the Guardian:
With the government shorn of its majority, and the Brexit deadline looming, the odds of an imminent election have dramatically reduced. So it’s worth examining the current state of the parties in the polls. What’s important to bear in mind, of course, is that polling provides a snapshot of public opinion at the time the poll is taken, and we are currently living in a highly volatile political situation.
Nationally, the Conservatives are strongest among those aged 65 or older (remember, older people are more likely to vote than younger people), people who own their own home outright, people without formal qualifications, and leave supporters (of course, these groups are all interlinked).
Labour’s strongest demographics are the under-35s, public-sector workers and renters. It does better among remain groups than leave groups – and even better among those who did not vote in the 2016 referendum (reflecting its younger age profile).
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/04/election-polls-boris-johnson-jeremy-corbyn
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On a slight tangent did you know that this week Corbyn became the most successful opposition leader since the war.
Margaret Thatcher defeated the government 40 times, Corbyn has now won 41 votes. Funny old world.
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How many opposition leaders lost an election and got another shot?
I cant see how I would vote for Corbyn's labour. Probably more than I cant see myself voting for Johnson's tories. It comes down to which of the parties I would hate least right now.
If I voted based on Europe, probably the tories. Based on everything, it would be close on a number of things. I'm yet to decide where my election vote would go.
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Imagine Corybn wasn't leader; would you vote for the Labour party based on their manifesto? If so, then the answer is Labour. Simples :aok:
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BFYP have you read Albie's post on 'Dark Money' and if yes has it affected your above stated position?
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Imagine Corybn wasn't leader; would you vote for the Labour party based on their manifesto? If so, then the answer is Labour. Simples :aok:
No I wouldnt, its probably more the opposite, I'd certainly probably vote Tory if their personnel were better. Corbyn has many faults, but they all do. I've actually grown to like John McDonnell a lot aswell, he appeared an idiot at first but has certainly grown in stature.l, as has corbyn to be fair. Ultimately there are policies of theirs that just dont make sense to me.
Having said this, until a full manifesto is published who knows where my vote will go. Its moved a couple of times in the past and will do so again.
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I've said many times, McDonnell understands how a capitalist economy works FAR better than any Tory Chancellor going back 50 years, with the possible exception of Ken Clarke.
The history of the rest of them is horrific.
Hammond and Osborne implemented insane Austerity measures which is the 180 degree opposite of what any basic university economics course would tell you to do to a depressed economy. We have had the worst recovery from recession since the South Sea Bubble as a result and have lost a decade of economic growth.
Lamont was destroyed in 1992 by the financial markets when trying to keep the pound tied to the Deutschmark and suffered the most humiliating defeat for any Chancellor since the War.
Lawson stupidly cut taxes as the economy was booming in 1988, leading to runaway inflation and the inevitable bust of the 1990 recession.
Geoffrey Howe made the incomprehensible mistake of raising I retest rates and cutting Govt spending at the depth of a recession in 1981, turning a bad recession into a catastrophic one, trebling unemployment and starting the collapse of industry in the UK.
Anthony Barber poured Govt spending into an already overheating economy in 1972, leading to an unsustainable boom and the massive increase in inflation of the mid-70s.
50 years of almost continuous failure by Tory Chancellor's, because of a failure to understand the basic precepts of capitalist macroeconomics.
McDonnell understands this. It's clear in every speech he gives. His economics are no more radical than Ken Clarke's in 1993, but he's painted as some sort of mad Marxist. That shows you how far the Tories have moved from anything remotely resembling sensible economics or politics.
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Imagine Corybn wasn't leader; would you vote for the Labour party based on their manifesto? If so, then the answer is Labour. Simples :aok:
Labour manifesto? You mean like the one that lied in 2017 when it said it would honour the decision of the British people to leave the EU?
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Imagine Corybn wasn't leader; would you vote for the Labour party based on their manifesto? If so, then the answer is Labour. Simples :aok:
Labour manifesto? You mean like the one that lied in 2017 when it said it would honour the decision of the British people to leave the EU?
Read the bloody thing, eh?
You seem to have missed this bit:
Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade. We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option and, if needs be, negotiate transitional arrangements to avoid a ‘cliff-edge’ for the UK economy.
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Lol at Steve
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Steve, what's the Daily Mail say this morning about Labour, mate?
:laugh:
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looks like Jeremy and the Rebel Alliance has made us better off already
The pound has surged against the dollar as the markets react to Boris Johnson losing control of Brexit.
Sterling posted its biggest increases in six months on Wednesday morning after parliament voted to block the prime minister taking the UK out of the EU without a deal.
The currency hit $1.2347, its strongest value in a week, just before 11.20am UK time. That followed an overnight surge of 1.4 per cent, its biggest one-day jump since March.
The Independent Verified account @Independent 2h2 hours ago
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I've said many times, McDonnell understands how a capitalist economy works FAR better than any Tory Chancellor going back 50 years, with the possible exception of Ken Clarke.
The history of the rest of them is horrific.
Hammond and Osborne implemented insane Austerity measures which is the 180 degree opposite of what any basic university economics course would tell you to do to a depressed economy. We have had the worst recovery from recession since the South Sea Bubble as a result and have lost a decade of economic growth.
Lamont was destroyed in 1992 by the financial markets when trying to keep the pound tied to the Deutschmark and suffered the most humiliating defeat for any Chancellor since the War.
Lawson stupidly cut taxes as the economy was booming in 1988, leading to runaway inflation and the inevitable bust of the 1990 recession.
Geoffrey Howe made the incomprehensible mistake of raising I retest rates and cutting Govt spending at the depth of a recession in 1981, turning a bad recession into a catastrophic one, trebling unemployment and starting the collapse of industry in the UK.
Anthony Barber poured Govt spending into an already overheating economy in 1972, leading to an unsustainable boom and the massive increase in inflation of the mid-70s.
50 years of almost continuous failure by Tory Chancellor's, because of a failure to understand the basic precepts of capitalist macroeconomics.
McDonnell understands this. It's clear in every speech he gives. His economics are no more radical than Ken Clarke's in 1993, but he's painted as some sort of mad Marxist. That shows you how far the Tories have moved from anything remotely resembling sensible economics or politics.
McDonell would have you use your spare bedroom to house asylum seekers at gun point.
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I've said many times, McDonnell understands how a capitalist economy works FAR better than any Tory Chancellor going back 50 years, with the possible exception of Ken Clarke.
The history of the rest of them is horrific.
Hammond and Osborne implemented insane Austerity measures which is the 180 degree opposite of what any basic university economics course would tell you to do to a depressed economy. We have had the worst recovery from recession since the South Sea Bubble as a result and have lost a decade of economic growth.
Lamont was destroyed in 1992 by the financial markets when trying to keep the pound tied to the Deutschmark and suffered the most humiliating defeat for any Chancellor since the War.
Lawson stupidly cut taxes as the economy was booming in 1988, leading to runaway inflation and the inevitable bust of the 1990 recession.
Geoffrey Howe made the incomprehensible mistake of raising I retest rates and cutting Govt spending at the depth of a recession in 1981, turning a bad recession into a catastrophic one, trebling unemployment and starting the collapse of industry in the UK.
Anthony Barber poured Govt spending into an already overheating economy in 1972, leading to an unsustainable boom and the massive increase in inflation of the mid-70s.
50 years of almost continuous failure by Tory Chancellor's, because of a failure to understand the basic precepts of capitalist macroeconomics.
McDonnell understands this. It's clear in every speech he gives. His economics are no more radical than Ken Clarke's in 1993, but he's painted as some sort of mad Marxist. That shows you how far the Tories have moved from anything remotely resembling sensible economics or politics.
McDonell would have you use your spare bedroom to house asylum seekers at gun point.
Britain's Got Talent has a lot to answer for.
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I've said many times, McDonnell understands how a capitalist economy works FAR better than any Tory Chancellor going back 50 years, with the possible exception of Ken Clarke.
The history of the rest of them is horrific.
Hammond and Osborne implemented insane Austerity measures which is the 180 degree opposite of what any basic university economics course would tell you to do to a depressed economy. We have had the worst recovery from recession since the South Sea Bubble as a result and have lost a decade of economic growth.
Lamont was destroyed in 1992 by the financial markets when trying to keep the pound tied to the Deutschmark and suffered the most humiliating defeat for any Chancellor since the War.
Lawson stupidly cut taxes as the economy was booming in 1988, leading to runaway inflation and the inevitable bust of the 1990 recession.
Geoffrey Howe made the incomprehensible mistake of raising I retest rates and cutting Govt spending at the depth of a recession in 1981, turning a bad recession into a catastrophic one, trebling unemployment and starting the collapse of industry in the UK.
Anthony Barber poured Govt spending into an already overheating economy in 1972, leading to an unsustainable boom and the massive increase in inflation of the mid-70s.
50 years of almost continuous failure by Tory Chancellor's, because of a failure to understand the basic precepts of capitalist macroeconomics.
McDonnell understands this. It's clear in every speech he gives. His economics are no more radical than Ken Clarke's in 1993, but he's painted as some sort of mad Marxist. That shows you how far the Tories have moved from anything remotely resembling sensible economics or politics.
McDonell would have you use your spare bedroom to house asylum seekers at gun point.
Britain's Got Talent has a lot to answer for.
Are you lot trapped in a 1970s South Yorkshire bubble as regards voting Labour. You are so out of touch with the vast bulk of the country.
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Imagine Corybn wasn't leader; would you vote for the Labour party based on their manifesto? If so, then the answer is Labour. Simples :aok:
Labour manifesto? You mean like the one that lied in 2017 when it said it would honour the decision of the British people to leave the EU?
SS.
If you're going to hammer on about this, you'd be well advised to check what the manifesto actually said.
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I've said many times, McDonnell understands how a capitalist economy works FAR better than any Tory Chancellor going back 50 years, with the possible exception of Ken Clarke.
The history of the rest of them is horrific.
Hammond and Osborne implemented insane Austerity measures which is the 180 degree opposite of what any basic university economics course would tell you to do to a depressed economy. We have had the worst recovery from recession since the South Sea Bubble as a result and have lost a decade of economic growth.
Lamont was destroyed in 1992 by the financial markets when trying to keep the pound tied to the Deutschmark and suffered the most humiliating defeat for any Chancellor since the War.
Lawson stupidly cut taxes as the economy was booming in 1988, leading to runaway inflation and the inevitable bust of the 1990 recession.
Geoffrey Howe made the incomprehensible mistake of raising I retest rates and cutting Govt spending at the depth of a recession in 1981, turning a bad recession into a catastrophic one, trebling unemployment and starting the collapse of industry in the UK.
Anthony Barber poured Govt spending into an already overheating economy in 1972, leading to an unsustainable boom and the massive increase in inflation of the mid-70s.
50 years of almost continuous failure by Tory Chancellor's, because of a failure to understand the basic precepts of capitalist macroeconomics.
McDonnell understands this. It's clear in every speech he gives. His economics are no more radical than Ken Clarke's in 1993, but he's painted as some sort of mad Marxist. That shows you how far the Tories have moved from anything remotely resembling sensible economics or politics.
McDonell would have you use your spare bedroom to house asylum seekers at gun point.
Well I pity the poor t**t who gets lumbered with you.
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Boris on the Tele this morning talking about the boost he's going to give to Scotland, farming, the NHS, infrastructure etc...
'with interest rates so low now's the time to do it.'
Well interest rates have been low for years about as long as John McDonnell had been advocating the borrowing that Boris is now doing.
8 years of Austerity, food banks, poverty, councils starved of money for absolutely no good reason.
If this lot get in again at the Election it'll be the biggest calamity of all time.
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Shameless.
Utterly f**king shameless.
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Goes without saying but if someone tried to write this up as a Novel most people would read the first Chapter and chuck it down as being "unbelievable" "too far fetched" "ridiculous" "stupid" "implausible" or
" insert your own here ......"
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Boris was at the West Yorkshire Police HQ near where I work yesterday afternoon. As I drove past (slowly, as the police had closed one lane of the dual carriageway for safety) there were probably 150 protesters outside with placards about the police austerity cuts over the past near decade of Tory-led economics. All the cars passing were hooting their horns in agreement.
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It’s a cruel twist of fate that at the very time we have the worst, most odious, most dangerous Government in my lifetime (ok, a close contest with Thatcher I admit) that at the same time we have such a terrible leader of the Labour Party.
It is sad beyond words. Any decent leader and we could look forward to a Labour landslide.
As it stands, I find myself looking at my options in the imminent G.E. and really scratching my head.
I watched Tony Blair speaking about Brexit the other night and found myself hoping for a Fairy Godmother to grant me a wish to bring him back.
I would rather have Corbyn in charge than that war mongering pillock......and I cant stand Corbyn...
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A group of distinguished economists have written to the FT today, in response to an FT series, supporting the Labour policy stance on the economy:
https://www.ft.com/content/6da72060-cfd2-11e9-99a4-b5ded7a7fe3f
If the link doesn't work because of the paywall, try via Twitter:
https://twitter.com/mazzucatom?lang=en
Whether you like Corbyn as an individual is not really relevant.
Look at the policy, and suggest improvements if you can.
EDIT
Same letter in PDF;
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kPspUtGjSfqQ-EaclTwpasJWdpK-Y4JL/view
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Johnson using the police cadets as a backdrop for a blatantly electioneering speech yesterday was a disgrace. An absolute disgrace. The CC of West Yorks has complained about it today.
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Drastically reduce police numbers and then start recruiting and try to take credit for increasing the numbers shameless.
May as home secreary decimated the police and said complaints and warnings were scare tactics. One of my son-in-laws is a police inspector at Wakefield so he probably had to suffer Boris and his cronies yesterday.
Politicians make decisions and policy and then the bobbies on the beat have to clean it up.
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I've said many times, McDonnell understands how a capitalist economy works FAR better than any Tory Chancellor going back 50 years, with the possible exception of Ken Clarke.
The history of the rest of them is horrific.
Hammond and Osborne implemented insane Austerity measures which is the 180 degree opposite of what any basic university economics course would tell you to do to a depressed economy. We have had the worst recovery from recession since the South Sea Bubble as a result and have lost a decade of economic growth.
Lamont was destroyed in 1992 by the financial markets when trying to keep the pound tied to the Deutschmark and suffered the most humiliating defeat for any Chancellor since the War.
Lawson stupidly cut taxes as the economy was booming in 1988, leading to runaway inflation and the inevitable bust of the 1990 recession.
Geoffrey Howe made the incomprehensible mistake of raising I retest rates and cutting Govt spending at the depth of a recession in 1981, turning a bad recession into a catastrophic one, trebling unemployment and starting the collapse of industry in the UK.
Anthony Barber poured Govt spending into an already overheating economy in 1972, leading to an unsustainable boom and the massive increase in inflation of the mid-70s.
50 years of almost continuous failure by Tory Chancellor's, because of a failure to understand the basic precepts of capitalist macroeconomics.
McDonnell understands this. It's clear in every speech he gives. His economics are no more radical than Ken Clarke's in 1993, but he's painted as some sort of mad Marxist. That shows you how far the Tories have moved from anything remotely resembling sensible economics or politics.
McDonell would have you use your spare bedroom to house asylum seekers at gun point.
Britain's Got Talent has a lot to answer for.
Are you lot trapped in a 1970s South Yorkshire bubble as regards voting Labour. You are so out of touch with the vast bulk of the country.
Absolutely. Spot on. 👍
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I see the CC of West Yorks says he was misled over the content of Johnson's speech with the coppers behind him.
He'd been told the speech was ONLY a out police numbers. Instead, Johnson went off onto Brexit, slagging off the Opposition and blatantly electioneering.
He has zero sense of honour or honesty. A horrible, horrible man.
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I've said many times, McDonnell understands how a capitalist economy works FAR better than any Tory Chancellor going back 50 years, with the possible exception of Ken Clarke.
The history of the rest of them is horrific.
Hammond and Osborne implemented insane Austerity measures which is the 180 degree opposite of what any basic university economics course would tell you to do to a depressed economy. We have had the worst recovery from recession since the South Sea Bubble as a result and have lost a decade of economic growth.
Lamont was destroyed in 1992 by the financial markets when trying to keep the pound tied to the Deutschmark and suffered the most humiliating defeat for any Chancellor since the War.
Lawson stupidly cut taxes as the economy was booming in 1988, leading to runaway inflation and the inevitable bust of the 1990 recession.
Geoffrey Howe made the incomprehensible mistake of raising I retest rates and cutting Govt spending at the depth of a recession in 1981, turning a bad recession into a catastrophic one, trebling unemployment and starting the collapse of industry in the UK.
Anthony Barber poured Govt spending into an already overheating economy in 1972, leading to an unsustainable boom and the massive increase in inflation of the mid-70s.
50 years of almost continuous failure by Tory Chancellor's, because of a failure to understand the basic precepts of capitalist macroeconomics.
McDonnell understands this. It's clear in every speech he gives. His economics are no more radical than Ken Clarke's in 1993, but he's painted as some sort of mad Marxist. That shows you how far the Tories have moved from anything remotely resembling sensible economics or politics.
McDonell would have you use your spare bedroom to house asylum seekers at gun point.
Well I pity the poor t**t who gets lumbered with you.
How many will you be taking?
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I've said many times, McDonnell understands how a capitalist economy works FAR better than any Tory Chancellor going back 50 years, with the possible exception of Ken Clarke.
The history of the rest of them is horrific.
Hammond and Osborne implemented insane Austerity measures which is the 180 degree opposite of what any basic university economics course would tell you to do to a depressed economy. We have had the worst recovery from recession since the South Sea Bubble as a result and have lost a decade of economic growth.
Lamont was destroyed in 1992 by the financial markets when trying to keep the pound tied to the Deutschmark and suffered the most humiliating defeat for any Chancellor since the War.
Lawson stupidly cut taxes as the economy was booming in 1988, leading to runaway inflation and the inevitable bust of the 1990 recession.
Geoffrey Howe made the incomprehensible mistake of raising I retest rates and cutting Govt spending at the depth of a recession in 1981, turning a bad recession into a catastrophic one, trebling unemployment and starting the collapse of industry in the UK.
Anthony Barber poured Govt spending into an already overheating economy in 1972, leading to an unsustainable boom and the massive increase in inflation of the mid-70s.
50 years of almost continuous failure by Tory Chancellor's, because of a failure to understand the basic precepts of capitalist macroeconomics.
McDonnell understands this. It's clear in every speech he gives. His economics are no more radical than Ken Clarke's in 1993, but he's painted as some sort of mad Marxist. That shows you how far the Tories have moved from anything remotely resembling sensible economics or politics.
McDonell would have you use your spare bedroom to house asylum seekers at gun point.
Well I pity the poor t**t who gets lumbered with you.
How many will you be taking?
So Axholme you want the country to be led by a bunch of rich Old Etonian right wing thugs who don't give a flying f***k for the likes of us.
You want your bumps feeling.
The thought of another 5 years of them (which will probably be among my last on this planet) honestly makes me come out in a cold sweat.
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1. Seb Dance MEP 🌹 🇪🇺Verified account @SebDance
It’s like a Theocracy now. No-one can question Brexit, no scientist, doctor or anyone with any professional qualifications is good enough if they don’t have the Brexit Faith.
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1. Seb Dance MEP 🌹 🇪🇺Verified account @SebDance
It’s like a Theocracy now. No-one can question Brexit, no scientist, doctor or anyone with any professional qualifications is good enough if they don’t have the Brexit Faith.
I wish they would stop interviewing Politicians with opposite views together as we all know what stance they will take - not answering the question asked of them but just the "mantra" they want to plug
Similarly an MP by himself trolls out the same sad line depending on which side of the debate he stands
Whichever side you are on this is tedious in the extreme and as I said elsewhere about 3000 times in the last 3 years (yes I am as bad)
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I've said many times, McDonnell understands how a capitalist economy works FAR better than any Tory Chancellor going back 50 years, with the possible exception of Ken Clarke.
The history of the rest of them is horrific.
Hammond and Osborne implemented insane Austerity measures which is the 180 degree opposite of what any basic university economics course would tell you to do to a depressed economy. We have had the worst recovery from recession since the South Sea Bubble as a result and have lost a decade of economic growth.
Lamont was destroyed in 1992 by the financial markets when trying to keep the pound tied to the Deutschmark and suffered the most humiliating defeat for any Chancellor since the War.
Lawson stupidly cut taxes as the economy was booming in 1988, leading to runaway inflation and the inevitable bust of the 1990 recession.
Geoffrey Howe made the incomprehensible mistake of raising I retest rates and cutting Govt spending at the depth of a recession in 1981, turning a bad recession into a catastrophic one, trebling unemployment and starting the collapse of industry in the UK.
Anthony Barber poured Govt spending into an already overheating economy in 1972, leading to an unsustainable boom and the massive increase in inflation of the mid-70s.
50 years of almost continuous failure by Tory Chancellor's, because of a failure to understand the basic precepts of capitalist macroeconomics.
McDonnell understands this. It's clear in every speech he gives. His economics are no more radical than Ken Clarke's in 1993, but he's painted as some sort of mad Marxist. That shows you how far the Tories have moved from anything remotely resembling sensible economics or politics.
McDonell would have you use your spare bedroom to house asylum seekers at gun point.
Well I pity the poor t**t who gets lumbered with you.
How many will you be taking?
So Axholme you want the country to be led by a bunch of rich Old Etonian right wing thugs who don't give a flying f***k for the likes of us.
You want your bumps feeling.
The thought of another 5 years of them (which will probably be among my last on this planet) honestly makes me come out in a cold sweat.
Do you think Corbyn, Abbott, McDonnell and the rest of their racist anti British mob give any thought to the likes of us either?
How much do you think that lot are worth? They will hardly be penniless. Champagne socialists the lot of 'em. Che Guevarra and Enver Hoxha would have put a bullet through the lot of 'em.
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meanwhile back on planet earth
We all thought that we had seen it all when the Tories tweeted a meme of Jeremy Corbyn dressed as a chicken but it would appear that the UK's governing party had another trick up their sleeves.
The Tories have actually produced a bucket of chicken (or what they are trying to pass off as chicken, anyway) with a JFC logo on it plus Corbyn's face as well as the slogan 'totally spineless chicken' and are sending it to journalists across London.
This completely bizarre stunt was soon all over social media, and needless to say people were not impressed with the Tories attempt to try and goad Corbyn into backing a general election.
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meanwhile back on planet earth
We all thought that we had seen it all when the Tories tweeted a meme of Jeremy Corbyn dressed as a chicken but it would appear that the UK's governing party had another trick up their sleeves.
The Tories have actually produced a bucket of chicken (or what they are trying to pass off as chicken, anyway) with a JFC logo on it plus Corbyn's face as well as the slogan 'totally spineless chicken' and are sending it to journalists across London.
This completely bizarre stunt was soon all over social media, and needless to say people were not impressed with the Tories attempt to try and goad Corbyn into backing a general election.
Corbyn the bottler?
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Its absolute car crash stuff. Everyone can see through it - why would the Lib Dems polling at their most popular for years (decades?) also be running away from an election? There's one thing the British people don't like and that is being taken for mugs, and Boris'current strategy is to try and take us for mugs.
https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1169928730652733440
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99% agree
Johnson will be taking us all for mugs but 1% wont twig that !
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Boris looks clueless when things aren't going as he hoped and expected.
He doesn't look capable of thinking on his feet when asked a question that he either doesn't like or understand.
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Corbyn the bottler? it just shows how some people fall for
the Sun's sh1te.
the strategic move is to wait and make Johnson ask for an extension .
Even a 5 year old wouldn't fall for Johnson's trap.
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The Libs though may be at their highest high for ages but the First past the Post system will do them no favours at all
Till we and they get PR of some kind the best they can hope for is "balance of power" again.
Last election (apologies that I have posted this many times lately)
Libs got 8 Seats having attracted 2,121,810 Votes
DUP got 10 Seats getting "just" 292,316 Votes
So 2 Seats less despite getting 7 times more Votes
CORRUPT ELECTORAL SYSTEM - PR NOW (may have said that before too - sorry)
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Corbyn the bottler? it just shows how some people fall for
the Sun's sh1te.
the strategic move is to wait and make Johnson ask for an extension .
Even a 5 year old wouldn't fall for Johnson's trap.
Or he could do the decent thing and not ask for an extension.
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Corbyn the bottler? it just shows how some people fall for
the Sun's sh1te.
the strategic move is to wait and make Johnson ask for an extension .
Even a 5 year old wouldn't fall for Johnson's trap.
Luckily they cant vote yet but a hell of a lot of 35s 45s and 55s and yes 65s WILL (and are) falling for it - unfortunately
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' Or he could do the decent thing and not ask for an extension. '
what's 'decent ' about not taking the action to ensure the Country's financial security. ?
' we won the war' won't save us.
Get in touch with Best for Doncaster
https://bestfordoncaster.uk/
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Corbyn the bottler? it just shows how some people fall for
the Sun's sh1te.
the strategic move is to wait and make Johnson ask for an extension .
Even a 5 year old wouldn't fall for Johnson's trap.
Or he could do the decent thing and not ask for an extension.
The decent thing would be to try and get a deal and not ruin the economy and people's lives.
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To all of you having a pop at me today, point me to where I've ever defended either Boris Johnson or the Tory Party. What I've always said is that the rabble in Westminster are all useless, and have been accused of being a "lazy thinker" because of it.
Well it looks like my views are vindicated today, as both Corbyn and McDonnell had stated that once the bill to block Non Deal had been locked down, they'd vote for an election. Now they''re saying they won't.
So they're not only cowards and cheats, they're a pair of f*cking liars as well.
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Corbyn the bottler? it just shows how some people fall for
the Sun's sh1te.
the strategic move is to wait and make Johnson ask for an extension .
Even a 5 year old wouldn't fall for Johnson's trap.
Or he could do the decent thing and not ask for an extension.
The decent thing would be to try and get a deal and not ruin the economy and people's lives.
And Corbyn is giving the Boris the time to do what he says he wants to, which is to go to the EU on Oct 17th and bring back that deal. Do those calling Corbyn chicken really want him to stop Boris doing that?
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Corbyn the bottler? it just shows how some people fall for
the Sun's sh1te.
the strategic move is to wait and make Johnson ask for an extension .
Even a 5 year old wouldn't fall for Johnson's trap.
Or he could do the decent thing and not ask for an extension.
I bet you have got a poster of Tommy Robinson on your bedroom wall....
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To all of you having a pop at me today, point me to where I've ever defended either Boris Johnson or the Tory Party. What I've always said is that the rabble in Westminster are all useless, and have been accused of being a "lazy thinker" because of it.
Well it looks like my views are vindicated today, as both Corbyn and McDonnell had stated that once the bill to block Non Deal had been locked down, they'd vote for an election. Now they''re saying they won't.
So they're not only cowards and cheats, they're a pair of f*cking liars as well.
It hasn't been given Royal Assent yet, so it's not locked down.
Have you bothered to read the 2017 Labour Manifesto yet?
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To all of you having a pop at me today, point me to where I've ever defended either Boris Johnson or the Tory Party. What I've always said is that the rabble in Westminster are all useless, and have been accused of being a "lazy thinker" because of it.
Well it looks like my views are vindicated today, as both Corbyn and McDonnell had stated that once the bill to block Non Deal had been locked down, they'd vote for an election. Now they''re saying they won't.
So they're not only cowards and cheats, they're a pair of f*cking liars as well.
If that's directed at me, I didn't say that people who thought our MPs were shite are "lazy thinkers", but people who believe every single politician is out for themselves and themselves alone. Because that just isn't true.
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Steve, what's the Daily Mail say this morning about Labour, mate?
:laugh:
I've no idea Rob; as I've said on here many times, I don't read newspapers as they're ALL politically biased. I prefer to watch all the news broadcasts and press previews on Sky News and BBC News.
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Here you go:
https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/
Enjoy, lads and lasses!
There will be a new one for the coming election of course!
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To all of you having a pop at me today, point me to where I've ever defended either Boris Johnson or the Tory Party. What I've always said is that the rabble in Westminster are all useless, and have been accused of being a "lazy thinker" because of it.
Well it looks like my views are vindicated today, as both Corbyn and McDonnell had stated that once the bill to block Non Deal had been locked down, they'd vote for an election. Now they''re saying they won't.
So they're not only cowards and cheats, they're a pair of f*cking liars as well.
If that's directed at me, I didn't say that people who thought our MPs were shite are "lazy thinkers", but people who believe every single politician is out for themselves and themselves alone. Because that just isn't true.
No, it wasn't you Red, it was someone else.
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To all of you having a pop at me today, point me to where I've ever defended either Boris Johnson or the Tory Party. What I've always said is that the rabble in Westminster are all useless, and have been accused of being a "lazy thinker" because of it.
Well it looks like my views are vindicated today, as both Corbyn and McDonnell had stated that once the bill to block Non Deal had been locked down, they'd vote for an election. Now they''re saying they won't.
So they're not only cowards and cheats, they're a pair of f*cking liars as well.
If that's directed at me, I didn't say that people who thought our MPs were shite are "lazy thinkers", but people who believe every single politician is out for themselves and themselves alone. Because that just isn't true.
No, it wasn't you Red, it was someone else.
That's alright then. ;)
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Here you go:
https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/
Enjoy, lads and lasses!
There will be a new one for the coming election of course!
Thanks for that Albie. I think some people on here have difficulties with semantics; "Labour accepts the referendum result".
Obviously, it refers to not accepting a No Deal scenario, but that's not what I've been taking issue with. It's the constant blocking, delaying, cheating and conning of the last 3 years.
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To all of you having a pop at me today, point me to where I've ever defended either Boris Johnson or the Tory Party. What I've always said is that the rabble in Westminster are all useless, and have been accused of being a "lazy thinker" because of it.
Well it looks like my views are vindicated today, as both Corbyn and McDonnell had stated that once the bill to block Non Deal had been locked down, they'd vote for an election. Now they''re saying they won't.
So they're not only cowards and cheats, they're a pair of f*cking liars as well.
It hasn't been given Royal Assent yet, so it's not locked down.
Have you bothered to read the 2017 Labour Manifesto yet?
But it will have Royal Assent by Monday, before the motion for a GE, and they're still going to vote against it. They're simply reneging on what they've said.
No wonder people's trust in politicians is at an all time low.
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Lol at Steve
I don't think so.
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To all of you having a pop at me today, point me to where I've ever defended either Boris Johnson or the Tory Party. What I've always said is that the rabble in Westminster are all useless, and have been accused of being a "lazy thinker" because of it.
Well it looks like my views are vindicated today, as both Corbyn and McDonnell had stated that once the bill to block Non Deal had been locked down, they'd vote for an election. Now they''re saying they won't.
So they're not only cowards and cheats, they're a pair of f*cking liars as well.
It hasn't been given Royal Assent yet, so it's not locked down.
Have you bothered to read the 2017 Labour Manifesto yet?
But it will have Royal Assent by Monday, before the motion for a GE, and they're still going to vote against it. They're simply reneging on what they've said.
No wonder people's trust in politicians is at an all time low.
Look on the bright side, it allows Boris the time to do what he keeps on promising us he's going to do - of going to the EU on Oct 17th and bringing back a deal. In which case all the anti-No Deal stuff will become irrelevant.
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To all of you having a pop at me today, point me to where I've ever defended either Boris Johnson or the Tory Party. What I've always said is that the rabble in Westminster are all useless, and have been accused of being a "lazy thinker" because of it.
Well it looks like my views are vindicated today, as both Corbyn and McDonnell had stated that once the bill to block Non Deal had been locked down, they'd vote for an election. Now they''re saying they won't.
So they're not only cowards and cheats, they're a pair of f*cking liars as well.
It hasn't been given Royal Assent yet, so it's not locked down.
Have you bothered to read the 2017 Labour Manifesto yet?
But it will have Royal Assent by Monday, before the motion for a GE, and they're still going to vote against it. They're simply reneging on what they've said.
No wonder people's trust in politicians is at an all time low.
If Boris is true to his word (we know he’s not), then when the Bill gets Royal asscent, and his bid for a General Election fails, he will have to go get a deal like he claims he can [we know he can’t) or he steps down as PM, why should the opposition let him off the hook himself? It’s like the old saying, give the man enough rop and he’ll hang himself
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To all of you having a pop at me today, point me to where I've ever defended either Boris Johnson or the Tory Party. What I've always said is that the rabble in Westminster are all useless, and have been accused of being a "lazy thinker" because of it.
Well it looks like my views are vindicated today, as both Corbyn and McDonnell had stated that once the bill to block Non Deal had been locked down, they'd vote for an election. Now they''re saying they won't.
So they're not only cowards and cheats, they're a pair of f*cking liars as well.
It hasn't been given Royal Assent yet, so it's not locked down.
Have you bothered to read the 2017 Labour Manifesto yet?
But it will have Royal Assent by Monday, before the motion for a GE, and they're still going to vote against it. They're simply reneging on what they've said.
No wonder people's trust in politicians is at an all time low.
Look on the bright side, it allows Boris the time to do what he keeps on promising us he's going to do - of going to the EU on Oct 17th and bringing back a deal. In which case all the anti-No Deal stuff will become irrelevant.
The EU won't give him a new deal, and if they did, Parliament would reject it. It's all become so personal now that the opposition won't vote for him for anything.
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It’s deliberate sabotage on behalf of all remainers, with the ultimate aim to overturn the original result.
I think at the next General Election we should adopt best of 3 just to make sure. And then maybe if we’re still not happy, best of 5.
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It’s deliberate sabotage on behalf of all remainers, with the ultimate aim to overturn the original result.
I think at the next General Election we should adopt best of 3 just to make sure. And then maybe if we’re still not happy, best of 5.
That is exactly what it has been all along. It has been the biggest act of propaganda I've known in my lifetime, and Remoaners have been well and truly conned into believing that parliament's reluctance to carry out the result of a democratic vote was done in the name of democracy!
They have been well and truly had, and as a result, all of us have.
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To all of you having a pop at me today, point me to where I've ever defended either Boris Johnson or the Tory Party. What I've always said is that the rabble in Westminster are all useless, and have been accused of being a "lazy thinker" because of it.
Well it looks like my views are vindicated today, as both Corbyn and McDonnell had stated that once the bill to block Non Deal had been locked down, they'd vote for an election. Now they''re saying they won't.
So they're not only cowards and cheats, they're a pair of f*cking liars as well.
They're clearly waiting till after Boris has extended it. No one wants to take over running a country with a couple weeks before deadline. Boris extends and they'll be 100% up for a November election. We have also had it speculated today that Boris requested a October date so that students won't have time to update addresses which plays into Tory hands, so why would Labour help Tories?
Edit: Its not speculated actually. Boris's aides have admitted it.
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It’s deliberate sabotage on behalf of all remainers, with the ultimate aim to overturn the original result.
I think at the next General Election we should adopt best of 3 just to make sure. And then maybe if we’re still not happy, best of 5.
That is exactly what it has been all along. It has been the biggest act of propaganda I've known in my lifetime, and Remoaners have been well and truly conned into believing that parliament's reluctance to carry out the result of a democratic vote was done in the name of democracy!
That's such a gross reduction/misrepresentation of reality its laughable. In fact, its not laughable its just really disappointing that some people have hold such simplistic viewpoints. The only deal presented to parliament was voted down by both remain and leave MPs. The 2nd best suggestions we've had to resolving this whole mess was Ken Clarke's indicative vote for a customs union, again voted down almost completely by Tory MPs.
Secondly, the events of the last few days was nothing to do with any reluctance to carry out Brexit, it was cynical political manoeuvring pure and simple.
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Then laugh away CIM, while you still can.
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Didn’t Johnson vote 3 times against a Brexit deal? So he clearly wasn’t that arsed about leaving
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Then laugh away CIM, while you still can.
I don't know what that means exactly.
But as I said, I am not laughing. I don't think anyone is at this stage. I think everyone is fed up and wants a resolution.
I voted to remain, but I am completely content at this stage to accept some form of deal and leave; broadly leaving the political union but having close economic/rights alignment - something like that. and I think any sensible government would seek a meaningful extension and a meaningful renegoation agenda/timetable to try and achieve that but a sensible government is something we don't have.
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Didn’t Johnson vote 3 times against a Brexit deal? So he clearly wasn’t that arsed about leaving
Johnson voted against the deal because he thought it was a crap deal. That didn't mean he wanted to remain, it meant he wanted to leave with either better terms or leave with no deal. The problem was those who voted against it who had no intention of voting for it irrespective of the deal. Those who were adamant that we should remain and not carry out a democratically voted result.
The really disappointing tragic aspect of it all is those members of the public who support Parliament in doing this, and as a result, changing democracy for ever in this country just to get the result overturned.
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South.
The far-Right wing of the Tory party, and the DUP voted against May's deal three times.
If they didn't do that, we'd have been out 6 months back.
Remind me which role they were playing in the remainer sabotage?
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Point of fact.
Johnson voted against May's deal twice, then in favour of it, then said it was a betrayal.
Fill your boots on interpreting that.
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It's an absolute joke than people claim remainers are the ones being conned; how can anyone not see the real reason the elite and billionaires want no-deal? Here's a hint: it's not a co-incident they all have millions in the bank!
And let's please not confuse with leaving the EU with no deal as the same thing as walking away from a bad deal - leaving with no deal IS THE bad deal; it's the worst case for everything and everyone (who isn't a millionaire with millions in off-shore tax-havens)
It's like being offered a terrible deal on a car, so you reject the terrible deal, take the car and pay full price.
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It’s deliberate sabotage on behalf of all remainers, with the ultimate aim to overturn the original result.
I think at the next General Election we should adopt best of 3 just to make sure. And then maybe if we’re still not happy, best of 5.
I hate to go over old ground - but I just searched and found 9 times I have written this already (has everyone got me on Ignore).
People (mainly Tory MPs) keep saying "We must respect the will of the British people" and it would be an affront to Democracy NOT to leave when we had a Referendum in which the people voted (overwhelmingly) to LEAVE
Others say we cant have a 2nd Referendum because if it goes the "other way" whats next best of 3 ?
Well - I always say we have already had 2 Referndums on the EU. The first was in 1975. I agree that seems a long while ago to to on here who were not born - but then 2016 is already a long time ago to some people isnt it - like the kids who could not vote and who will on average be around longest
In 75 after a trial period of EEC Membership we were asked would you like to join/ Remain in or Leave the EEC ? Simple as that and 66% of those voting voted for REMAIN. 33% of those voting (including me) voted LEAVE.
So 66 Remain 33 Leave = a Majority of 33 (Thirty three per cent to remain). THere was no great hoo ha - not 3 years plus of s**t like we have to listed to and read daily - because it just wasnt an issue.
EXCEPT of course for the Tory Party (mainly who were split on the issue) and continued to undermine the result over the next 40 years. They did not have the muscle / clout / call it what you will but they never stopped tring to overturn the overwhelming "will of the people" in the 1975 Referendum
Lets just state again Majority in 1975 to REMAIN was 33%
Thats is 7 to 8 times MORE that the 2016 Referendum which Cameron called to finally try to shut the yapping gits up and unite his Party once and for all. He failed to do that because a) he did not campaign actively and so looked a wimp - and b) he failed to say we need a majority of (say) 60% to change our current status and again he didnt and the rest is history
So we have a situation where a very devisive result (lets say 4%) to Leave has caused this complete s**t storm and something totally unprecedented with nearly 5 years now of man v man and woman.
People like me are branded Remainiacs Remoners and all sorts of other stuff (the observant may have noticed I voted for the losing side again) - and yet the very people calling for democracy to be respected are those that behind the scenes dissed the 75 Referendum result and I for one would love it - love it if we have another Referendum soon
It will then have been the best of 3 - and I will finally get a chance to be on the winning side for the first time because I am convinced that people would vote Remain. Who knows ?
Instead of the daily s**T we get served up with and have to endure why not put Mays deal on a Ballot Paper v Remain then we will see what the current Will of the British people is right at this moment. If it coems up Leave with Mays deal I will take iton the chin - and I will die knowing I voted for the losing side three times in a row
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Wolfie. Democracy is a system of government where the citizens exercise power by voting. If the result of a vote is not observed, meaning the power is taken away from the voters, what is the point in having another vote? What is the point in democracy thereafter?
Of course, it is equally democratic to hold another vote in the future and change the original vote if the country so desires, but only after the original vote has been implemented, otherwise what would be the point? Subverting a vote is not democratic!
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Didn’t Johnson vote 3 times against a Brexit deal? So he clearly wasn’t that arsed about leaving
The problem was those who voted against it who had no intention of voting for it irrespective of the deal. Those who were adamant that we should remain and not carry out a democratically voted result.
That doesn't stand up to scrutiny either I am afraid. I suggest you go back and look at the indicative votes and look at who exactly voted against what.
There was only one group who consistently voted against any alternative and that was the no-deal MPs.
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Pretty interesting this democracy lark then Bentley isn't it? It seems in your view its one rule for Borris, and another rule for the rest of us.
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And what rule is that CIM?
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To all of you having a pop at me today, point me to where I've ever defended either Boris Johnson or the Tory Party. What I've always said is that the rabble in Westminster are all useless, and have been accused of being a "lazy thinker" because of it.
Well it looks like my views are vindicated today, as both Corbyn and McDonnell had stated that once the bill to block Non Deal had been locked down, they'd vote for an election. Now they''re saying they won't.
So they're not only cowards and cheats, they're a pair of f*cking liars as well.
They're clearly waiting till after Boris has extended it. No one wants to take over running a country with a couple weeks before deadline. Boris extends and they'll be 100% up for a November election. We have also had it speculated today that Boris requested a October date so that students won't have time to update addresses which plays into Tory hands, so why would Labour help Tories?
Edit: Its not speculated actually. Boris's aides have admitted it.
You're missing my point DO, which is that Corbyn and McDonnell lied when they said they would vote for an election once the No Deal bill got Royal Assent. The inference on here is always that the only liars in all this are Johnson and the ERG.
As I've said before, they all lie and con and cheat to pursue their agendas.
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So did they give you a date?
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And what rule is that CIM?
Its in your last two posts.
You said Borris was within his right to vote against an outcome that would lead to brexit, and the very next post you said it was undemocratic to vote for any outcome that would not lead to brexit (i.e. the will of the people).
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Rather than getting stuck in these contradictions, I think it might just be better to accept that democracy is a bit more complicated than you are letting on.
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Boris was quite within his rights to vote against a type of Brexit he didn't agree with. It didn't mean he wanted to go against a democratic vote by wanting to remain!
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn
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Aye, get off to bed Syderney. Let the mesters have a bit of adult time. You must be very tired after a hard week at school!
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night night, hope your feeling better after the election
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I won't tell you again BED!
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So did they give you a date?
Give me a date? What on Earth are you on about?
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Ben Elton was on Virgin Radio this morning.. His short few minute thoughts on the referendum, Brexit and politicians as a whole was more interesting, true and relevant then anything I've heard recently, you should seek it out!
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Talking of Democracy (https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/early-election-stops-students-1-6256282)
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So did they give you a date?
Give me a date? What on Earth are you on about?
When JC and McDonnell said they will call an election once no-deal had been locked down, did they give you a date or anyone a precise date? it's quite a simple question
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SS.
I think you're getting a little confused over what constitutes a "lie".
What Corbyn did, was to make a quick response to an emerging situation,then change his mind when he'd had time to consider all the implications.
That might make his first response a poor one, but it doesn't make it a lie. A lie requires some intent to deceive, usually for gain. I fail to see how Corbyn has gained anything from his original stance. If anything, he's looked weaker for changing his position.
Contrast with yesterday, when Johnson assured the Chief Constable of West Yorkshire that he was only going to talk about police numbers and funding with a backdrop of police cadets looking down on him, then proceeded to lay into his opponents over Brexit and the Election.
That meets the definition of a lie perfectly. He deliberately deceived the CC,and in appearing to have the blessing of the police for his stance on Brexit and the Election, he was gaining an advantage by his deception.
Don't you agree?
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I won't tell you again BED!
You've been really testy this last week anything bothering you?
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To all of you having a pop at me today, point me to where I've ever defended either Boris Johnson or the Tory Party. What I've always said is that the rabble in Westminster are all useless, and have been accused of being a "lazy thinker" because of it.
Well it looks like my views are vindicated today, as both Corbyn and McDonnell had stated that once the bill to block Non Deal had been locked down, they'd vote for an election. Now they''re saying they won't.
So they're not only cowards and cheats, they're a pair of f*cking liars as well.
They're clearly waiting till after Boris has extended it. No one wants to take over running a country with a couple weeks before deadline. Boris extends and they'll be 100% up for a November election. We have also had it speculated today that Boris requested a October date so that students won't have time to update addresses which plays into Tory hands, so why would Labour help Tories?
Edit: Its not speculated actually. Boris's aides have admitted it.
You're missing my point DO, which is that Corbyn and McDonnell lied when they said they would vote for an election once the No Deal bill got Royal Assent. The inference on here is always that the only liars in all this are Johnson and the ERG.
As I've said before, they all lie and con and cheat to pursue their agendas.
There's a difference between changing their mind and lying. Should they stick to what they said originally if they know it to be strategically daft compared to waiting?
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So, if Tories change their minds they lied, but If socialists change their minds they just...... well.... changed their minds! I see!
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A lie is surely saying something that is factually incorrect rather than a broken promise or change of strategy.
Even most of Boris' lies are misrepresentation and manipulation rather than lying after the fact.
Although it seems pretty obvious with that definition of lying Boris would still be ahead of any Socialist in the BS game... even Uncle Joe.
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That's a good definition TM - but who decides where manipulation ends and lies begin?
It was reported in the Sunday papers that Johnson and Cummings wanted an election on 14th October.
Johnson went on national tv on Monday night to deny that he wanted an election. He said this again in the HoC during PMQ's and the debate on Wednesday.
After loosing the vote on Wednesday he then asked for an election.
So was the call for an election a change in strategy due to circumstances? Or did he lie to the public (on national tv) when he said he did not want something he was planning to have?
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So, if Tories change their minds they lied, but If socialists change their minds they just...... well.... changed their minds! I see!
Can someone please design a hamster wheel imoji?
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TM
If your definition was correct, every time someone got an answer wrong in a pub quiz, they'd be lying.
And on the subject of Johnson, I disagree. Most of his lies are lies.
Like the one with the WYCC.
Like the one when the leader of the Tory party sacked him, after Johnson categorically told him he wasn't having an affair when he was.
Like the one when he made up an entire section of an article in The Times and for sacked for that.
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So, if Tories change their minds they lied, but If socialists change their minds they just...... well.... changed their minds! I see!
Can someone please design a hamster wheel imoji?
So you malign me for being monotonous for not changing my mind at all, whether lyingly or genuinely!
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That's a good definition TM - but who decides where manipulation ends and lies begin?
It was reported in the Sunday papers that Johnson and Cummings wanted an election on 14th October.
Johnson went on national tv on Monday night to deny that he wanted an election. He said this again in the HoC during PMQ's and the debate on Wednesday.
After loosing the vote on Wednesday he then asked for an election.
So was the call for an election a change in strategy due to circumstances? Or did he lie to the public (on national tv) when he said he did not want something he was planning to have?
From the outside we can see he changed his mind. If we knew for a fact he wanted an election despite saying he didn't then he'd be lying.
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Billy
You're right about the pub quiz thing I should have said I should have put "knowingly giving factually incorrect information"
You examples of Boris lying are spot on, I think I did say he lies loads more than anyone else it's just sometimes people call other dick moves he does lying and that can strengthen and add to his support.
Calling them all liars when they are not seems to then make it acceptable behaviour for them to be upping their outright lie count and before to long you end up with a leader who draws on a map with a felt tip pen to prove the hurricane will hit Alabama just like he said.
Boris is the biggest outright liar in frontline politics I've known in my lifetime, Hes maybe not told the most damaging lies but definitely the most, But my worry is that in 10/15 years time that wont be the case and we will have outright liars in every cabinet post just like what some people already think we have but don't.
Its dangerous to say people are lying when they aren't because when they do start lying your credibility is gone.
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Something I found on the net.............
A London School of Economics study into how Jeremy Corbyn is represented in the media found that only a paltry 11% of all newspaper articles about him bothered to accurately state a single one of his actual policies. In the hard-right Daily Mail and Express that figure was 0%.
Given this lack of unbiased political coverage it's not difficult to understand why so many people are so unfamiliar with Jeremy Corbyn's actual policies, and tend to judge him as if politics is some kind of vapid personality contest.
So here are some of the Jeremy Corbyn policies that the mainstream media really don't want to tell you about, so you can judge for yourself whether you like them or not.
Labour Party policies
Ban companies based in tax havens bidding for government contracts
It's astounding that this isn't the case already. How on earth could anyone even attempt to justify taxpayers' cash being paid to companies based in tax havens for the purpose of dodging tax?
£10 minimum wage for all workers over the age of 18
The UK is the only country in the developed world where workers' wages are declining in real terms, while the economy is actually growing. A £10 minimum wage would help to reverse this scenario, and it would also significantly reduce the cost of in-work benefits like tax credits and housing benefit (most of which goes to working families these days).
All rented accommodation to be fit for human habitation
Again, astounding that this isn't the case already, but in January 2016 the Tories (over 1/3 of whom are landlords) deliberately voted down a Labour Party amendment to their housing bill to ensure that all rented accommodation is fit for human habitation.
Renationalise the railways
This is a very popular policy that is supported by an overwhelming majority of the public. Do you support rail renationalisation too, or are you one of the minority who think that the current profiteer-administered shambles is acceptable?
Renationalise the NHS
The Tory party have been carving up the English NHS and distributing the pieces to the private sector, Jeremy Corbyn has pledged to reverse this process. Are you one of the 84% of people who thinks the NHS should be run as a not for profit public service, or the 7% who agree with the ongoing Tory privatisation agenda?
Free school meals
The policy of providing free school meals to all school children between the ages of 4 and 11 is based on evidence based research showing that universal free school meals lead to significantly improved grades. It will be paid for by ending the generous tax breaks (public subsidies) for the 7% of kids who go to private fee-paying schools.
Create a National Education Service
Jeremy Corbyn believes that education is a right, not a commodity. He wants to create an integrated National Education Service to ensure that education is freely available to anyone who needs it.
Scrap tuition fees
Thanks to the Tories (and their Lib-Dem enablers) UK students now face the most expensive tuition fees in the developed world for study at public universities, meaning students typically leave university with £50,000 of debt, and two thirds of them will never pay off their student debts. Labour would end this lunacy by getting rid of student fees.
Restore NHS Bursaries
One of the first things Theresa My did when she came to power was to scrap NHS bursaries for nurses and other NHS workers. This removal of financial support for nurses has caused a huge 10,000 decline in the number of applicants to nursing courses. This collapse in nursing recruitment would be bad enough in its own right, but in combination with a record increase in the number of EU nurses quitting the NHS, and a mind-boggling 92% fall in nursing recruitment from EU countries, the UK is clearly facing a massive NHS recruitment crisis. Labour would reverse this calamitous state of affairs by restoring NHS Bursaries for trainee nurses.
Increase the carers allowance
Labour are proposing to increase the Carers Allowance for the 1 million unpaid carers in the UK. This would be paid for by scrapping the Tories' Inheritance Tax cut for millionaires. Unpaid carers save the UK economy an estimated £132 million a year, and they're doing ever more work as a result of the £4.6 billion in Tory cuts to the social care budget.
Create a National Investment Bank
This is actually one of Jeremy Corbyn's best policies, but few people actually understand it. It's absolutely clear that allowing private banks to determine where money is invested ends up in huge speculative bubbles in housing and financial derivatives, while the real economy is starved of cash. A National Investment Bank would work by investing in things like infrastructure, services, businesses and regional development projects, and would end up becoming a kind of sovereign wealth fund for the UK.
End the public sector pay freeze
Under Tory rule UK workers suffered the longest sustained decline in real wages since records began. The public sector pay freeze contributed massively to this. You'd have to be economically illiterate to imagine that repressing public sector wages with below inflation pay rises for year after year would not exert downwards pressure on private sector wages too. Ending the public sector pay freeze would actually boost the economy by putting more money in people's pockets, meaning an increase in aggregate demand.
End sweetheart tax deals between HMRC and massive corporations
David Cameron (the son of a tax-dodger) repeatedly lied through his teeth about how serious he was about confronting tax-dodging, whilst allowing HMRC to concoct sweetheart deals with corporations like Google, Vodafone and Starbucks. One of the main reasons the corporate press are so strongly opposed to Jeremy Corbyn is that they know that unlike David Cameron, he's serious when he talks about clamping down on tax-dodging.
Stop major corporations ripping off their suppliers
Major corporations are withholding an astounding £26 billion through late payment, which is responsible for an estimated 50,000 small businesses going bust every year. The scale of this problem is so massive that it should be a national scandal, and Jeremy Corbyn is absolutely right to align himself with small businesses to defend their interests.
Reverse the Tory corporation tax cuts
Since 2010 the Tories have cut the rate of corporation tax for major multinational corporations from 28% to just 17% (by 2020) meaning the UK has one of the lowest corporation tax rates in the developed world. The global average is 27% and the G7 average is 32.3%. Theresa May has already threatened to lower the corporation tax even further to turn post-Brexit Britain into a tax haven economy, Corbyn is proposing to do the opposite and increase corporation tax rates so they're more in line with the rest of the developed world.
Defend Human Rights
Theresa May has repeatedly expressed her intention to tear up Winston Churchill's finest legacy, the European Convention on Human Rights. Labour would oppose this Tory attack on our human rights.
Zero Hours Contracts ban
Almost a million UK workers are now on exploitative Zero Hours Contracts. Last year the New Zealand parliament voted to ban them, and Labour is proposing to do the same. Long-term employees and workers doing regular hours would be protected from Zero Hours Contract exploitation.
Holding the Tories to account over Brexit
Labour have said that they won't block Brexit, but they will seek to hold the Tories to account over it. A landslide Tory victory would be a disaster for the UK because it would allow the Tories to pursue the most right-wing pro-corporate anti-worker Brexit possible with almost no democratic scrutiny. The only way to make sure the Tories don't push a fanatically right-wing Brexit on the nation is to return a Labour government, or ensure that there are enough opposition MPs to hold them to account.
Housebuilding
Under the Tory government the level of UK housebuilding has slumped to the lowest levels since the 1920s, even though demand for housing is extremely high. Labour are guaranteeing to invest in a programme of house building, and committing to ensure that half of the new houses are social housing. This wouldn't just alleviate the housing crisis, it would also stimulate the economy by increasing aggregate demand.
Combat inequality
George Osborne's ideological austerity agenda resulted in the longest sustained decline in workers' wages since records began and condemned an additional 400,000 children to growing up in poverty, meanwhile the tiny super-rich majority literally doubled their wealth. Labour is pledging to reduce the inequality gap and introduce progressive policies to reduce the gap between the incomes of the highest and lowest paid. There is plenty of evidence to show that the least unequal societies are more economically successful places where the people are happier.
Conclusion
So out of these 20 Labour Party policies, how many do you actually strongly disagree with?
Footnote
This article attracted rather a lot more interest than I'd imagined (well over 1 million hits in 3 days!). One of the big questions people have been asking is how all of this would be paid for.
The answer is that quite a lot of the policies are actually investments that would pay for themselves in the long-term because they would stimulate more economic activity than the investment cost. Other policies could easily be funded if we had a government that was actually serious about cracking down on tax-dodging, which costs the country vast amounts per year. Just ending sweetheart deals between HMRC and major multinationals would generate £billions, which would pay for stuff like restoring the NHS bursary many times over.
If anyone is genuinely worried about how stuff is going to be paid for, the first thing on their mind should of course be the impending threat of a "no deal" Tory strop away from the Brexit negotiating table that the Tories have made the centrepiece of their so-called "negotiating strategy". If that happens the IFS have estimated a 6.3% -9.5% collapse in GDP, which would be a much more significant economic meltdown than the one that was caused by the 2007-08 global financial sector insolvency crisis (that our economy and our wages have still nowhere near recovered from). What do you think would happen to the tax take and the budget deficit if the economy tanked even worse than it did in 2009 thanks to the Tories' alarmingly woeful threat-based Brexit negotiation strategy resulting in the chaos of an economically ruinous cliff edge Brexit?
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I saw a joke that I thought was amusing................
Jeremy Corbyn walks into a Bank to cash a cheque. "Good morning, could you please cash this cheque for me?"
Cashier:"It would be my pleasure. Could you please show me your ID?"
Corbyn :"Actually, I did not bring my ID with me as I didn't think there was any need to. I am Jeremy Corbyn, leader of the Labour Party.
Cashier:"Yes, I know who you are, but with all the regulations and monitoring of the banks because of impostors and forgers and requirements of the legislation etc., I must insist on seeing ID."
Corbyn: Just ask anyone here at the bank who I am and they will tell you. Everybody knows who I am."
Cashier: "I am sorry, Mr Corbyn, but these are the bank rules under the legislation, and I must follow them."
Corbyn,"Come on please, I am urging you, please cash this cheque."
Cashier: "Look sir, here is an example of what we can do. One day, Lee Westwood came into the bank without ID. To prove he was Lee Westwood he pulled out his putter and played a beautiful shot across the bank into a cup. With that shot we knew him to be Lee Westwood and cashed his cheque."
"Another time, Andy Murray came in without ID. He pulled out his tennis racket and made a fabulous shot where the tennis ball landed in my cup. With that shot we cashed his cheque. So, sir, what can you do to prove that it is you and only you?"
Corbyn stands there thinking and thinking and finally says.....
"To be honest, my mind is a total blank...there is nothing that comes to my mind. I can't think of a single thing. I have absolutely no idea what to do. I don't have a clue"
Cashier: "Will that be large or small notes Mr Corbyn....?....
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Thanks TT for posting the labour party policies, nothing rabidly red there, nothing wildly lefty just a reasonable log of claims that most rational people could live with and if adopted by either side of politics (as if) would allow those on the margins to live a better life.
Yep I'd like to hear why anyone would oppose any of that?
I also rewatched the vid of JC being questioned about the Trident System and the labour party's intention to review it.
So a review not a moratorium or an outright ban a dismantling or anything else. I thought JC answered the questions in a reasonable, thoughtful and knowledgable way and would from what I've seen much prefer the deterrent to be in the hands of JC than bj. He went through the thought process of decision making from where one should start, way before getting into the stupidity of one of the last questioners what ifs to show that there is a better way. I also thought that the program wasn't moderated very well. Again I think a reasonable person would find it difficult to disagree with the logic behind his thinking and that we would be less likely to end up in a N-war with that approach.
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Thanks TT for posting the labour party policies, nothing rabidly red there, nothing wildly lefty just a reasonable log of claims that most rational people could live with and if adopted by either side of politics (as if) would allow those on the margins to live a better life.
Yep I'd like to hear why anyone would oppose any of that?
I also rewatched the vid of JC being questioned about the Trident System and the labour party's intention to review it.
So a review not a moratorium or an outright ban a dismantling or anything else. I thought JC answered the questions in a reasonable, thoughtful and knowledgable way and would from what I've seen much prefer the deterrent to be in the hands of JC than bj. He went through the thought process of decision making from where one should start, way before getting into the stupidity of one of the last questioners what ifs to show that there is a better way. I also thought that the program wasn't moderated very well. Again I think a reasonable person would find it difficult to disagree with the logic behind his thinking and that we would be less likely to end up in a N-war with that approach.
As stated in the OP, it's down to the man himself and his cronies not policies
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Thanks TT for posting the labour party policies, nothing rabidly red there, nothing wildly lefty just a reasonable log of claims that most rational people could live with and if adopted by either side of politics (as if) would allow those on the margins to live a better life.
Yep I'd like to hear why anyone would oppose any of that?
I also rewatched the vid of JC being questioned about the Trident System and the labour party's intention to review it.
So a review not a moratorium or an outright ban a dismantling or anything else. I thought JC answered the questions in a reasonable, thoughtful and knowledgable way and would from what I've seen much prefer the deterrent to be in the hands of JC than bj. He went through the thought process of decision making from where one should start, way before getting into the stupidity of one of the last questioners what ifs to show that there is a better way. I also thought that the program wasn't moderated very well. Again I think a reasonable person would find it difficult to disagree with the logic behind his thinking and that we would be less likely to end up in a N-war with that approach.
As stated in the OP, it's down to the man himself and his cronies not policies
Personally I don't find him half as bad as Farage or Boris. That isn't the Daily Mail telling you what to think about him, is it?
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No, I think all 3 are despicable