Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Filo on September 28, 2019, 02:09:23 pm
-
Doing a Boris
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-police-investigate-after-nigel-20321671
-
Doing a Boris
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-police-investigate-after-nigel-20321671
and that will get us government by advisors who give answers that will get them the next contract.
-
Doing a Boris
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-police-investigate-after-nigel-20321671
absolutely saying that with purpose and intent. He's just trying to stay relevant
-
What an utter t**t.
Planned and deliberate choice of language. Just like he said on the night of the Referendum that Leave won "without a shot being fired". A few days after a prominent Remain MP had been shot dead.
So the ante gets upped again. And you can just see his mock-concern face as he says "How twisted do you have to be to think that was anything more than a euphemism?"
-
But it was only a joke - anyone who thinks he was talking literally must be a snowflake...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-jo-brand-joke-battery-acid-milkshake-heresy-radio-4-bbc-a8955541.html
-
Has anybody noticed how much worse public services have become since civil service number were slashed post-2010 due to austerity? That's what happens when you get rid of people who not only do the work but understand how the system works - and then making the public's only contact a call centre staffed by outsourced contractors who employ people who don't know have the proper knowledge and are only usually doing the job until something better comes along - and are under pressure to answer as many calls as possible regardless of the quality of service and advice they give.
-
Why do they give this man airtime?
-
But it was only a joke - anyone who thinks he was talking literally must be a snowflake...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-jo-brand-joke-battery-acid-milkshake-heresy-radio-4-bbc-a8955541.html
Hypocrisy of the highest order but you would expect no less of him.
He seems to get worse every time that he opens his mouth.
-
But it was only a joke - anyone who thinks he was talking literally must be a snowflake...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-jo-brand-joke-battery-acid-milkshake-heresy-radio-4-bbc-a8955541.html
Jo Brand was joking too. Nige had a very different opinion then.
-
And several of us on here from the Remain side said categorically that Brand was stupid saying that.
I've not heard a word of condemnation from anyone on the Leave side for Johnson and Garage's disgraceful language this week.
-
Why do they give this man airtime?
I'm surprised at you Raven. Do you realise how undemocratic that statement is? We don't agree with his views, so let them be stifled.
That's what totalitarian countries do.
-
Why do they give this man airtime?
I'm surprised at you Raven. Do you realise how undemocratic that statement is? We don't agree with his views, so let them be stifled.
That's what totalitarian countries do.
Not what democracy is. Free speech doesn't mean you get to nudge-nudge-wink-wink incite violence on the biggest TV channels in the country.
-
Farage should be axed for using the word knife when describing cuts!
-
He has gained votes without having to do a thing, he has just sat back and let the main parties self destruct.
-
And several of us on here from the Remain side said categorically that Brand was stupid saying that.
I've not heard a word of condemnation from anyone on the Leave side for Johnson and Garage's disgraceful language this week.
100% condemn the language from both of them
-
Why do they give this man airtime?
I'm surprised at you Raven. Do you realise how undemocratic that statement is? We don't agree with his views, so let them be stifled.
That's what totalitarian countries do.
Not what democracy is. Free speech doesn't mean you get to nudge-nudge-wink-wink incite violence on the biggest TV channels in the country.
A Remainer lecturing us about what democracy is. Have you any more jokes?
-
Have you heard the one about the guy that took his Bentley to a car yard to trade in and the salesman said what do you want for it, and the guy said what are you offering and the reply was I'll give you a valuation but it's not a contract.
-
Have you heard the one about the guy that took his Bentley to a car yard to trade in and the salesman said what do you want for it, and the guy said what are you offering and the reply was I'll give you a valuation but it's not a contract.
That's nothing whatsoever to do with democracy Sydney.
-
Have you heard the one about the guy that took his Bentley to a car yard to trade in and the salesman said what do you want for it, and the guy said what are you offering and the reply was I'll give you a valuation but it's not a contract.
That's nothing whatsoever to do with democracy Sydney.
This democracy thingy that you and others keep going on about is about what? if it was about the vote the vote was advisory-non binding if the tories were half a decent political party they could have had brexit on toast so I'm not sure what your gripe is about, maybe the tories for pulling each others plonka for three years?
-
if you love democracy so much, why are you against more democracy aka a 2nd referendum?
-
Why do they give this man airtime?
I'm surprised at you Raven. Do you realise how undemocratic that statement is? We don't agree with his views, so let them be stifled.
That's what totalitarian countries do.
How much national airtime in recent weeks have you had to give your views SS?
-
if you love democracy so much, why are you against more democracy aka a 2nd referendum?
Excellent idea, then we can ignore that one too
-
Ldr.
You're a clever bloke. Why do this?
The case for why the first Referendum was fundamentally flawed (as a binary choice on a non-binary question) has been carefully made and it's really unarguable.
Have a binary choice on a specific binary question, or a transferrable vote on a multi-choice question, in a referendum where no illegal means are used and I'd sign up to accepting the outcome without complaint.
I've never once heard anyone make a sensible case for why that is undemocratic.
-
BST it's pretty clear to me that even if there was a 2nd referendum that no one would accept the outcome. If still leave then we still In the position we are now. If remain we in the reverse position with Leavers not accepting it so why bother?
-
What is fundamentally flawed BST is your assumption that you are the judge on what is deemed sensible.
-
BST it's pretty clear to me that even if there was a 2nd referendum that no one would accept the outcome. If still leave then we still In the position we are now. If remain we in the reverse position with Leavers not accepting it so why bother?
I think the point was that a new leave option would have some definition of what leave means so folks know in more detail what they are voting for, or, they can vote for leave to ratify a deal which the government negotiates with the EU.
So, it would be different..
-
BB.
No. It's not me making that assessment. It's simple application of logic.
The 2016 vote is valid if and only if EVERYONE who voted "Leave" wold have accepted ANY form of Leave over Remain.
That is axiomatic. It's not up for debate. if you disagree with that, there is no further argument to justify the validity of the result in 2016.
Lots of Leave supporters on here are insistent that THEY, individually, knew what they were voting for when they voted Leave. But that's a different thing. It's not about what any individual recalls their understanding as being. It is about what ALL of the Leave voters actually felt. And we have no way of knowing that.
But, what we DO have is the very head of Leave.EU being on record as saying that he'd have preferred to have stayed in than accept May's deal to leave the EU, that ends the argument. There exists at least one Leave voter who was NOT prepared to accept any form of Leave over Remain. Therefore the possibility opens up that there are others. Perhaps many. Therefore the validity of the 2016 vote is immediately undermined. The point is that we do not know, because the whole concept of the 2016 vote was flawed.
If you want a truly democratic decision, you have to have either a binary vote on two specific, entirely defined outcomes. Like Remain and No Deal; or a transferable vote to find a best compromise from a list of options.[1]
I'm genuinely unable to understand what anyone finds erroneous about that logical path, or unfair about the conclusion. And I have not heard anyone, anywhere give a response to it that isn't either logically flawed or just a string of insults.
Have a go. Surprise me.
[1] The few polls we've had on that topic indicate that overwhelmingly, the most preferred outcome would be a Norway-type deal, where we stay in the SM and in the CU. But that's never been on the agenda because it was unacceptable to the Tory party, trying to fight off Farage. Which is a shame, because it might well have been the one option that could have done the least social damage.
-
BST. Your inability to grasp the consequences of quashing a result in an attempt to get it reversed by means of a replacement vote in the name of democracy is quite astonishing. The absolute fact of the matter is that the majority of people voted to not remain. Twist and turn it any way you like but if we have another referendum and the result is overturned the consequences may well be catastrophic. Even if leave won again it would almost certainly be the end of democracy as we have known it.
-
Once again BB, you don't address the core point I have been trying to make for years.
Your stance is: I'll turn a blind eye to the manifest inadequacies of the 2016 vote. I won't discuss those at all. I'll continue to insist that that vote was an ideal of democratic decision making which must not be questioned. And I'll choose to be one of the ones who would pour fuel on any sparks that might crackle if that decision were revisited, by encouraging and condoning it being seen as a betrayal, rather than a better democratic process.
I understand that argument. Genuinely I do. Because it's an easy one to make. We had a choice. We made a choice. End of. But surely, after all this time, you see the shortcomings of that "decision". The fact that the "decision" wasn't a "decision" at all. It was an opening for the far right of British politics to interpret what it meant, and everyone else to be excluded?
You DO see that don't you?
Oh no. I forgot. Of course you don't. Because, despite there being zero evidence to support it, you continue to make the accusation that the delay is all the fault of evil, scheming Remainers.
By the way, I'll say again, for the umpteenth time. I'm NOT trying to get the 2016 vote decision reversed. That's not for me to do. I'm trying to get it clarified.
-
Leaving the EU involves re-arranging a vast variety of legal and political ties, many relating to business and industry.
If the underlying feeling from business and politics is that no deal is not acceptable, then the only way to leave is with a deal.
If those with the relevant expertise ie not Joe Public can’t negotiate a deal to deliver the referendum result, then is it really undemocratic to go back to the public.?
-
Once again BB, you don't address the core point I have been trying to make for years.
Your stance is: I'll turn a blind eye to the manifest inadequacies of the 2016 vote. I won't discuss those at all. I'll continue to insist that that vote was an ideal of democratic decision making which must not be questioned. And I'll choose to be one of the ones who would pour fuel on any sparks that might crackle if that decision were revisited, by encouraging and condoning it being seen as a betrayal, rather than a better democratic process.
I understand that argument. Genuinely I do. Because it's an easy one to make. We had a choice. We made a choice. End of. But surely, after all this time, you see the shortcomings of that "decision". The fact that the "decision" wasn't a "decision" at all. It was an opening for the far right of British politics to interpret what it meant, and everyone else to be excluded?
You DO see that don't you?
Oh no. I forgot. Of course you don't. Because, despite there being zero evidence to support it, you continue to make the accusation that the delay is all the fault of evil, scheming Remainers.
By the way, I'll say again, for the umpteenth time. I'm NOT trying to get the 2016 vote decision reversed. That's not for me to do. I'm trying to get it clarified.
The core point is there was a democratic referendum and the result should stand. My stance on turning a blind eye to manifesto inadequacies in the 2016 referendum is no different from any other manifesto inadequacies that always come to light after a vote. The difference in this case, of course, is that people like you have been given time to jump on the bandwagon with accusation after accusation because the people who should have brought us Brexit by now don't want it, and never did. Even those who spent a their life wanting out of the EU (Corbyn?), are trying to keep us in purely in an attempt to gain power.
Of course, the Remainers are to blame because it's them that want us to stay in! It's now't to do with how we leave, they don't want to. If they wanted to leave they wouldn't call themselves Remainers!
-
Why do they give this man airtime?
I'm surprised at you Raven. Do you realise how undemocratic that statement is? We don't agree with his views, so let them be stifled.
That's what totalitarian countries do.
How much national airtime in recent weeks have you had to give your views SS?
I don't need it Raven, I get plenty of exposure on here, LOL. Seriously though, I think you'll find Farage doesn't get all that much air time for the leader of a party that's polling so well.
-
Are you talking about remainer MPs BB.? General public remainers cannot affect Brexit no more than leavers can.
As for manifesto inadequacies, if that’s in a GE then we get a chance to correct that at the next GE. How does that option work for Brexit.?
-
I'm talking about MP Remainers, but without the support of general public Remainers the MP's wouldn't have anyone to claim they're representing.
We can re-join the EU if after a reasonable time leaving proves to be a mistake. Of course, we have to leave first!
-
How long would we need to prove it was a mistake.?
One of the arguments is that it would already be a mistake when we leave.!
-
Hopefully, we won't ever need to go back, although one or two in here would say it's a failure if we all became millionaires!
-
And once again, BB totally ignores the point I made a week or so back on how we WOULD have left in March if the far-right of the Tory party hadn't been scheming.
Not a passing nod to that argument.
Nope. It's all the fault of everyone else of course. Even though there's never been any word about exactly HOW the Remain-supporting MPs have kyboshed the process.
Almost as if BB doesn't actually want to engage in sensible, fact-based discussion...
-
BST. Far from me being responsible for the thinking of the far-right tories who rejected May's deal, but I do believe they wanted to leave but didn't like the deal. Maybe in hindsight, some of them would have voted to accept the deal had they known then what they knew later. Whatever, they still wanted to leave, and carry out a democratic vote. On the other hand, there were MP's hell-bent on remaining, the most prominent one being Corbyn Monoxide, and all put their personal careers and beliefs before democracy in order of importance.
-
and all put their personal careers and beliefs before democracy in order of importance.
nope.
all put their country before politics, actually. It would be far easier to support a no-deal Brexit right now in all those constiuencies that had a majorty vote for brexit. A lot of Labour MP's will have a far tougher election campaign because they are putting country before politics.
-
Aaand, maybe in hindsight some of those who voted leave in the referendum wouldn't have done had they known then what they know now.
-
And maybe in hindsight I could win last Saturday's lottery. I bet the buggers wouldn't let me change my numbers though. They'd just say it wouldn't be fair on those who'd won it genuinely, and it would be wrong to pay me instead of them...... Picky bas**rds.
-
BB
Is that THIS Corbyn from 2018?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/21/jeremy-corbyn-labour-policy-leaving-eu
Or this Corbyn from 2017?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/09/jeremy-corbyn-uk-is-better-off-out-of-eu-with-managed-migration
Or this Corbyn from sparrowfart on 24 June 2016?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DpBmuIHfFWdM&ved=2ahUKEwi7xIuPzvvkAhUWSBUIHUkpBzoQo7QBMAl6BAgAEBQ&usg=AOvVaw0ZJwgQNC7p-JpLruw9Wirv
Do you actually have any self-respect?
-
So Corbyn only wants to leave if he's PM? He changes his mind to suit the popular opinion of the day? I don't get your point.
Are you saying you're now a fan of him?
-
You're an embarrassment to yourself BB.
-
What happened to being nice to each other, Billy lad?
Is it a coincidence that your threshold of niceness runs out when you don't want to answer a question?
-
No. My threshold of niceness runs out when you dive into this idiotic behaviour.
Corbyn has said consistently that he was in favour of leaving, on specific terms.
I thought he was broadly correct in thinking that in 2017. I think he's wrong to think that now.
I also think you should grow up but I'm not holding my breath.
-
So why then, in June 2016, in the run-up to the EU referendum, did Corbyn say that there was an "overwhelming case" for staying in the EU?
-
So Corbyn only wants to leave if he's PM? He changes his mind to suit the popular opinion of the day? I don't get your point.
Are you saying you're now a fan of him?
In the words of New Model Army,"Dont ask anymore stupid questions"
Last week you basically called me a wa*nker. You call others pathetic remoaners.
You really do have some personal issues going on there.
I remember seeing your defence of Mason when he had touched a woman up,and thought...hmmm imagine if that was your wife or daughter.
Hypocrite an bulls hitter of the highest order.
-
I meant he has consistently been in favour of Leaving SINCE the vote.
Go on. Next.
-
What's Corbyns personal opinion got to do with anything? Labours policy is based on what their members decide on.
-
''Burger King milkshake tweet 'encouraged' anti-social conduct''
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-49895800
Of course nothing that fargo has said would have had a similar effect?
-
''Here is Guy Verhofstadt, the European parliament’s lead Brexit spokesman, on Nigel Farage’s decision not to stand for Westminster. Farage, of course, remains an MEP.''
Farage gets a bucket too, stand well clear :)
this one is quite entertaining.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1191288029761220609/video/1
-
Be better if none of them were there all they do is slag each other off all as bad as each other
-
Be better if none of them were there all they do is slag each other off all as bad as each other
the old ''all as bad as other line'' got any new ones bp :)
-
Christ. THE laziest line in politics.
-
Does not mean it’s not true, as on the nhs post you said that labour pumped money into the nhs when I asked about Blair, was it you being lazy missing the rest of the post out?
-
Christ. THE laziest line in politics.
Oh yeah. ALL those on the right are the bad guys; ALL those on the left are the good guys. What could be lazier thinking than that?
It couldn't be something to do with being partisan and blinkered could it?
-
Here's most of the bad guys Steve, don't they like women?
Fargo mocks 'good little Boys who backed brexit'
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/04/boris-johnson-criticised-for-selective-quotes-about-nhs-in-letter-to-voters
-
Farage appeared with antisemitic pastor on US web radio show
Brexit party leader gave at least six long interviews to Rick Wiles on the TruNews network
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/09/farage-appeared-with-antisemitic-pastor-on-us-web-radio-show
there's a common thread when far right 'leaders' are critically examined
-
Farage is had a bit of a nightmare on #bbcqtdebate
I don't think he enjoyed it.
#Channel4News also showed his #BrexitParty to be a bunch of racists.