Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Sprotyrover on October 06, 2019, 11:56:23 am
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You will recall that there was a plan to turn Hatfield into a Coal gasification project approx 10 years ago,it didn't get very far as you literally would have to set fire to the coal seams under the district.
It seems that there is a scheme in the pipeline which will operate in the North Sea off Hartlepool where there is 6 billion tons just a few miles out.
The gas produced is Syngas which is similar to town gas.
The main reason this development is being driven is that there is an estimated 27 trillion tons of Coal in the British sector of the North Sea.
It's an absolutely staggering figure and by all accounts the technology has been developed.I presume that the excess carbo will be pumped in the empty oil fields which also forces the remaining Oil to form into
Economically accessible reservoirs.
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And why in God's name would you do that? Why use up a natural resource when we're at tipping point for sustainable power generation?
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Hmmm seem to remember the Hatfield scheme relied on technology that had never been proven. I would imagine any payback period would make it unviable anyway.
Having worked at Markham Main I know that coal seams had been proven from Armthorpe out into the North Sea.
Personally I think we need to make sustainable fuel energy the main focus
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And why in God's name would you do that? Why use up a natural resource when we're at tipping point for sustainable power generation?
Never be used now given the policies to carbon neutral.
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Carbon Capture and Storage has not been successfully developed by anyone as yet bfyp
''Carbon Capture Suffers a Huge Setback as Kemper Plant Suspends Work
It’s the latest U.S. government-supported boondoggle around CCS''
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/carbon-capture-suffers-a-huge-setback-as-kemper-plant-suspends-work#gs.7v4vym
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And why in God's name would you do that? Why use up a natural resource when we're at tipping point for sustainable power generation?
Never be used now given the policies to carbon neutral.
That's whatI thought butt I wondered why we have kept quiet about US and Chinese Coal production and Jeremy Corbyn said himself when he visited The Trades and Labour club in town that he personally would bring back Coalmining.
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And why in God's name would you do that? Why use up a natural resource when we're at tipping point for sustainable power generation?
Never be used now given the policies to carbon neutral.
I meant why burn hydrocarbons, using up a valuable and flexible chemical resource and polluting at the same time.
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And why in God's name would you do that? Why use up a natural resource when we're at tipping point for sustainable power generation?
Never be used now given the policies to carbon neutral.
That's whatI thought butt I wondered why we have kept quiet about US and Chinese Coal production and Jeremy Corbyn said himself when he visited The Trades and Labour club in town that he personally would bring back Coalmining.
Unlike him to try to appeal to all despite conflicting demands. He wants to bring it back but be carbon neutral, pretty tricky.
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And why in God's name would you do that? Why use up a natural resource when we're at tipping point for sustainable power generation?
Never be used now given the policies to carbon neutral.
That's whatI thought butt I wondered why we have kept quiet about US and Chinese Coal production and Jeremy Corbyn said himself when he visited The Trades and Labour club in town that he personally would bring back Coalmining.
Unlike him to try to appeal to all despite conflicting demands. He wants to bring it back but be carbon neutral, pretty tricky.
That was back in 2015 when he ran for the leadership.
In 2019 Labour have been at the forefront of declaring a climate emergency and only last week passed a resolution to campaign on a Green New Deal in the next election.
See, when the facts change people can change their minds....
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And why in God's name would you do that? Why use up a natural resource when we're at tipping point for sustainable power generation?
Never be used now given the policies to carbon neutral.
That's whatI thought butt I wondered why we have kept quiet about US and Chinese Coal production and Jeremy Corbyn said himself when he visited The Trades and Labour club in town that he personally would bring back Coalmining.
Unlike him to try to appeal to all despite conflicting demands. He wants to bring it back but be carbon neutral, pretty tricky.
That was back in 2015 when he ran for the leadership.
In 2019 Labour have been at the forefront of declaring a climate emergency and only last week passed a resolution to campaign on a Green New Deal in the next election.
See, when the facts change people can change their minds....
Has global warming only been known about since 2015? It seems like ages since the greenhouse effect was identified
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Sensible, that wasnt made clear in Sproty's posts. I wonder what their view on steel is given they called for it to be nationalised. How would they keep british steel or tata in Wales going by removing the carbon element and at what cost?
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There will be more detail when Labour publish their manifesto but here is a bit of reading for you:
https://www.labourgnd.uk/
https://www.labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/The-Green-Transformation-.pdf
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I would think that the days of anyone reading the labour party manifesto and believing any word that is printed are long gone.
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Aye. Cos they're all as bad as each other aren't they Selby.
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I would think that the days of anyone reading the labour party manifesto and believing any word that is printed are long gone.
The same, if not more, could be said about the Tory manifesto!
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Or the Lib Dem’s, or the Brexit Party, or the SNP, hell, they are all the same.
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If you trust the word of anyone in politics then you dont deserve the vote
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To be fair some of those mentioned haven't been in power for years or ever to even be judged, i.e. Labour and Brexit Party.
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There's some very silly comments in here.
No political party can ever implement all of its manifesto or every aspiration they ever announce. It's childish to think they will.
What you need to do is grow up a bit and look at the sort of country and society they want to move us towards being.
Look at the big picture, not the detail. Otherwise, you're like a kid who's been promised a 99 with sprinkles and strawberry sauce and then moans when the sprinkles are chocolate instead of 100s & 1000s.
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Or people could be like the crowd who believed that the emperor had a new suit of clothes.
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That doesn't make any sense as a reply to my post Hound.
The point is that politicians and political parties DO have aspirations to change the fundamental direction of a country and society. It makes far more sense to engage with that than to moan about individual promises not being kept.
In 1979 Thatcher promised she wouldn't increase VAT and said nothing about planning a massive rise in unemployment to try to drive down inflation. On both of those specific issues she was less than truthful. But she DID say that the overall aim of her Government was to reduce the power of the state and the trades unions, to give more power to business and to reduce the take take. On those broader aims, she did more or less what she said she'd do.
Blair and Brown said that they'd broadly keep the societal changes that thatcher had brought, but would have a more active Govt role in redistribtion of wealth and capital investment. Whatever you think of any specific promises they might or might not have kept, they did do that.
Cameron and Osborne said that they would curtail Govt spending to try to get the deficit under control. Again, whatever you think of their specific individual promises, they did give us a decade of suppressed Govt spending, compared to what they inherited. (It didn't work in bringing the deficit down as they said it would, and they f**ked the recovery in the meantime, but that's not what we are talking about.)
It;s frankly childish to say that you can't trust politicians at all. On the BIG picture, they do tend to do what they say they are going to do when elected.
So, if you're properly going to engage with the upcoming election, look at the big picture being painted by the parties for the sort of society they want, not at fiddly details.
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Billy when you grow up you will probably vote for another party rather than Labour if you have any family you want to benefit from your hard work.
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Point of order BST, the deficit is reducing, debt is not
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Back on to the more prevalent point, do we not all have a responsibility to think of the environment? The question though is what price are we prepared to pay? Is it jobs, ie the steel industry? Is it increased costs eg electric cars or less travel etc?
Note I dont have an answer but clearly we need to invest in it, potentially it's the next industrial revolution.
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Talking of electric cars, a government report suggests they be fitted with a black box and charged by the mile on the roads instead of fuel duty. Bingo big brother.
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The Climate Change Act 2008 was just the start.
On 27th June this year, BEIS, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy released a statement stating that the 2008 Act was being amended and we would be clear of all greenhouse gas emissions by 2050, the first major economy to do so.
To achieve that action is needed to drive uptake of low carbon heating in the 2020's. What will that mean?
All new homes off the gas grid will have low carbon systems by 2025.
Work will begin to replace the gas grid entirely, mostly utilising hydrogen. Biogas is also a possibility.
So, it doesn't matter how much coal is in the North Sea, and how much of it can be converted to town gas, it won't be touched, at all.
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Point of order BST, the deficit is reducing, debt is not
I know.
I said they didn't reduce it as they'd planned.
Osborne said in 2010 that the structural deficit would be eliminated by 2015.
Every sane economist said:
1) Why?
2) You won't do that by curtailing Govt spending. That will depress economic performance and therefore Govt income through taxes.
Guess what? The recovery tanked and the deficit came down far more slowly than planned.
Osborne then extended the deadline to 2020.
Then we had the Brexit vote and the economy tanked again and Hammond extended the date at which we eliminate the structural deficit to 2025.
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As a kid we went to relations near Hartlepool part of the "holiday" going picking up sea coal off the beaches for them :)
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4 new Gas turbines being built at Drax 🤔
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If any of our posters are from the North East they will be able to confirm that quite a few of the NE collieries closed because of the travelling distance under the N Sea to reach the coal face. Easington I believe were 7-8 miles out it tokk too long to get the miners to the face.
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We worked in the North East a lot in the 70s and 80s. There were always blokes pushing bikes about with bags of sea coal on. You also got wagons on the beaches collecting sea coal. Waste not want not.
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If any of our posters are from the North East they will be able to confirm that quite a few of the NE collieries closed because of the travelling distance under the N Sea to reach the coal face. Easington I believe were 7-8 miles out it tokk too long to get the miners to the face.
Looks like they will use rigs to get the gas out not mines.
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Agree, just making the point that there is plenty out there but too costly to reach with old mining methods
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4 new Gas turbines being built at Drax 🤔
Sproty,
The gas turbines at Drax are to replace coal fired generation.
The UK is committed to zero coal by 2025, so I don't see how this relates to the OP.
It is likely the Drax gas decision will be challenged in court, as it is not in keeping with UK carbon policies.
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If any of our posters are from the North East they will be able to confirm that quite a few of the NE collieries closed because of the travelling distance under the N Sea to reach the coal face. Easington I believe were 7-8 miles out it tokk too long to get the miners to the face.
Raven I did a paper on Easington as part of my degree, you are quite right there was a huge amount of travelling time
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4 new Gas turbines being built at Drax 🤔
Sproty,
The gas turbines at Drax are to replace coal fired generation.
The UK is committed to zero coal by 2025, so I don't see how this relates to the OP.
It is likely the Drax gas decision will be challenged in court, as it is not in keeping with UK carbon policies.
According to Drax there is enough Natural Gas to last 250 years at today's consumption levels. But it in Norway and mostly Russia. The Govt has apparently invested £1 billion into the Nort east Coal gasification project watch this space.
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Well, if you have a reference for UK Gov investment it would help!
The UK position on removing coal from the energy mix is set out here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/672137/Government_Response_to_unabated_coal_consultation_and_statement_of_policy.pdf
I can't see why they would then be supporting coal gasification with public subsidy, Sproty.
No-one is going to invest private capital into this without the prospect of a market and a return on investment. You can still apply for consent for such projects from government, but the economics are completely against it.
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Well, if you have a reference for UK Gov investment it would help!
The UK position on removing coal from the energy mix is set out here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/672137/Government_Response_to_unabated_coal_consultation_and_statement_of_policy.pdf
I can't see why they would then be supporting coal gasification with public subsidy, Sproty.
No-one is going to invest private capital into this without the prospect of a market and a return on investment. You can still apply for consent for such projects from government, but the economics are completely against it.
Well according to tonight's news it's happening the Gas turbines have been approved.
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Well, if you have a reference for UK Gov investment it would help!
The UK position on removing coal from the energy mix is set out here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/672137/Government_Response_to_unabated_coal_consultation_and_statement_of_policy.pdf
I can't see why they would then be supporting coal gasification with public subsidy, Sproty.
No-one is going to invest private capital into this without the prospect of a market and a return on investment. You can still apply for consent for such projects from government, but the economics are completely against it.
Well according to tonight's news it's happening the Gas turbines have been approved.
This governments stuck two fingers up to climate change then.
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Sproty,
Are you talking about Drax;
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49960817
As it says, this is to replace coal.
What has this got to do with coal gasification under the North Sea?
I still don't understand where you got the idea of Government support for the North Sea coal gasification that you posted.
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Sproty,
Are you talking about Drax;
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49960817
As it says, this is to replace coal.
What has this got to do with coal gasification under the North Sea?
I still don't understand where you got the idea of Government support for the North Sea coal gasification that you posted.
Albie I can't find the stuff I was looking at on Saturday but it seems that some Fossil fuels magnate called Algy Cluff was behind the plans and he had the licences for the off shore Coal Gasification Project off Northumberland, from what I can see the Govt pulled the Plug on their support and funding in 2016. Seems there have been some Gas fields discovered in the Znorth Sea which is why we are still building Gas power facilities.
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It won't happen, the government have already committed to replacing the gas network, and on new installations by 2025.
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It won't happen, the government have already committed to replacing the gas network, and on new installations by 2025.
SM have you got a link to the info you posted relating to the govt initiative to replace fossil fuels in home that are off the Gas network.
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It won't happen, the government have already committed to replacing the gas network, and on new installations by 2025.
SM have you got a link to the info you posted relating to the govt initiative to replace fossil fuels in home that are off the Gas network.
As soon as I'm home I'll do it for you.
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It looks like people are taking notice, a tractor pulling a full trailer of logs has just gone by, there will be no trees left at this rate.