Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: PDX_Rover on October 19, 2019, 08:43:43 pm
-
Anyone know where we are with this? Seemed t have gone quiet.
-
Anyone know where we are with this? Seemed t have gone quiet.
It's a f*cking disgrace. There's no justification whatsoever for the amount of time this is taking. They'll probably wait while the end of the season to see if it impacts on the league placings.
-
I had a word with GB after the game and all I can say is it is in hand and please trust the club on this one.
I must admit, I lost my patience and contacted the EFL about 10 days ago to urge them to communicate an update however unsurprisingly, they have not responded. I regretted sending the email afterwards as I firmly believe we should allow the club to deal with ithe matter.
Gavin assured me there has been dialogue but nothing has been concluded as yet. I'm sure the club will go public when it's appropriate to do so.
-
If we have to play the., it's nailed on it will be after January, to give them enough time possible to assemble a half decent team.
-
I emailed the EFL this week and they told me there was no update, and apologised for not being able to tell me anything..
-
There are quite a few Tuesdays available before Christmas.
If we have a good cup run or cup replays, together with potential postponements for bad weather there could be a fixture pile up in the New Year and we would be further handicapped by having to fit the Bolton game in with those.
It would be fair to get the game played pre Christmas when it was originally intended to be.
-
It would be fair to give us the points, period..
-
It would be fair to give us the points, period..
I totally agree IDM but I just have my doubts about that happening.
-
I emailed the EFL this week and they told me there was no update, and apologised for not being able to tell me anything..
Having checked my emails, I got the same polite reply.
GB also repeated the clubs stance that we continue to persue the points.
-
They’re clearly hoping this one (as they drag their heels) will whither & die on the vine, meaning a replay sometime in the New Year.
-
It’s a farce really. Why should we be singled out for this treatment. There zero doubt we would have thrashed them.
-
The Bolton paper says that the Independent Commission to deal with Bolton's two unauthorised postponements was due to meet this Thursday. However, the date clashes with a EFL Board Meeting so it will be delayed again.
My money's on Brexit getting sorted out sooner than this fiasco!
-
Said this from the start - the suits are in no way going to help us. It will be some financial penalty or maybe points penalty for Bolton and then being forced to play the game again, with no restriction on who they can use as players. We will receive absolutely nothing in recompense. Zero.
-
The Bolton paper says that the Independent Commission to deal with Bolton's two unauthorised postponements was due to meet this Thursday. However, the date clashes with a EFL Board Meeting so it will be delayed again.
My money's on Brexit getting sorted out sooner than this fiasco!
How odd. Surely dates for EFL board meetings are set well in advance, so it would be easy for the independent commission to arrange to meet before the board meets to present findings
-
Surely they are 2 different things EFL and independent it's a clear difference, one meeting should Not over rule the other as its in the wording independent
-
The EFL is a joke, wouldn't have taken them long to take the points off Donny.
-
You would have thought the FA would have been aware of the dates of the regular EFL board meetings. Makes you wonder how difficult it is to gather the men in Blazers. It's taken far too long.
-
The EFL is a joke, wouldn't have taken them long to take the points off Donny.
It's not the EFLs responsibility to arrange the date for the Independant Commission to sit.
-
id wager that the whole farce will drag on till the outcome of the seaon is as good as done!, The time we cant reach the play offs (for example), then they will give us maybe a 1-0 win., If we are in the top 6 near the end, the game will be shoehorned in, maybe even on a thursday etc. Imagine the uproar if they gave us points that moved another side out of the top 6. Lawers would be all over it like a rash!!!!
-
That is no way to go about business.. whatever the outcome, it should only be decided on what has happened, not on what may happen in the future.
-
I'm rather tired of hearing what should or should not be done about a postponed game. It was not postponed, Bolton unilaterly decided to cancel the fixture.
They did not consult with the EFL or Doncaster. They simply announced a cancellation on the club web site without having the common decency to advise the other parties involved.
That action should not be rewarded with a rearranged fixture. The fixture was conceded. They refused to play. They withdrew.
As far as Doncaster Rovers is concerned, they were willing and able to play. They were denied an inevitable 3 points. The margin of victory is nominal and at the discretion of the EFL to award be it 1-0 or greater.
As for Bolton, they have to be punished for disregarding EFL rules and protocols. It cannot be swept under the carpet. Whatever the ruling they should accept it for acting in such an unprofessional manner and bringing the competition into disrepute.
The EFL should carry out an enquiry into their own procedures, dragging their feet and failing to act decisively. The whole shit show is becoming an embarrassment.
-
It can't be swept under the carpet. Everyone in League One knows it is pending the outcome of the commission.
I'm sure all those directly and indirectly involved are frustrated how long it has taken. We knew from shortly after the incident that the EFL referred the case to the Independent Disciplinary Commission so it begs the question, why has the FA taken so long to set a date?
Of course The EFL need to review their actions which led to Bolton being allowed to start the season in the first place.
-
The part of this that really winds me up is that the EFL say they have no policy for this. Firstly, get one then. Secondly, you do as you used it against Bolton last season when they cancelled on Brentford. Only difference is it that no-one cared what happened with the Brentford game - no positions or anything would have changed.
They’re making themselves look more and more of a joke as every meeting goes by. And, let’s be quite honest here, it takes a serious effort for these clowns to look worse!
-
Action on the Brentford game is still up for punishment along with ours.
-
Off topic, but Saracens rugby union club have been fined £5 million and docked 35 points for breach of salary cap. Maybe football can learn from rugby union about penalties handed out for misdemeanours?
-
Off topic, but Saracens rugby union club have been fined £5 million and docked 35 points for breach of salary cap. Maybe football can learn from rugby union about penalties handed out for misdemeanours?
And yellow card = sin bin, penalty (i.e. free kick) advanced 10 yards if opposition stay too close, and respect for referees in general.
There is some truth in what they always said:
Rugby is a game for hooligans played by gentlemen,
Football is a game for gentlemen played by hooligans
.
.
.
And Hurling (or Aussie Rules if you prefer) is a game for hooligans played by hooligans!
-
I'm rather tired of hearing what should or should not be done about a postponed game. It was not postponed, Bolton unilaterly decided to cancel the fixture.
They did not consult with the EFL or Doncaster. They simply announced a cancellation on the club web site without having the common decency to advise the other parties involved.
That action should not be rewarded with a rearranged fixture. The fixture was conceded. They refused to play. They withdrew.
As far as Doncaster Rovers is concerned, they were willing and able to play. They were denied an inevitable 3 points. The margin of victory is nominal and at the discretion of the EFL to award be it 1-0 or greater.
As for Bolton, they have to be punished for disregarding EFL rules and protocols. It cannot be swept under the carpet. Whatever the ruling they should accept it for acting in such an unprofessional manner and bringing the competition into disrepute.
The EFL should carry out an enquiry into their own procedures, dragging their feet and failing to act decisively. The whole shit show is becoming an embarrassment.
The above post is far to sensible for the EFL.
They could be sleep walking into even more embarrassment if they continue to drag their heels on this.
The blazers might be holding on until either we can’t make the play offs and a Bolton are relegated but what happens if it does pan out differently.
The Rovers might take legal action to secure the points, more mess’s for the EFL to sort out, and what if, just what if, Bolton stage a miracle run of results and a points deduction then causes them to be relegated.
It needs sorting out quickly so that everyone knows where they stand and can cut their cloth accordingly.
Ridiculous that it is dragging on and on.
-
The Bolton paper says that the Independent Commission to deal with Bolton's two unauthorised postponements was due to meet this Thursday. However, the date clashes with a EFL Board Meeting so it will be delayed again.
My money's on Brexit getting sorted out sooner than this fiasco!
How odd. Surely dates for EFL board meetings are set well in advance, so it would be easy for the independent commission to arrange to meet before the board meets to present findings
I agree. I think it's just another excuse to kick the can down the road.
-
I'm rather tired of hearing what should or should not be done about a postponed game. It was not postponed, Bolton unilaterly decided to cancel the fixture.
They did not consult with the EFL or Doncaster. They simply announced a cancellation on the club web site without having the common decency to advise the other parties involved.
That action should not be rewarded with a rearranged fixture. The fixture was conceded. They refused to play. They withdrew.
As far as Doncaster Rovers is concerned, they were willing and able to play. They were denied an inevitable 3 points. The margin of victory is nominal and at the discretion of the EFL to award be it 1-0 or greater.
As for Bolton, they have to be punished for disregarding EFL rules and protocols. It cannot be swept under the carpet. Whatever the ruling they should accept it for acting in such an unprofessional manner and bringing the competition into disrepute.
The EFL should carry out an enquiry into their own procedures, dragging their feet and failing to act decisively. The whole shit show is becoming an embarrassment.
I agree 100% with this, but try arguing this with most Bolton fans and they come back at you with all kinds of arguments as to why they were fully justified in calling the game off.
As Liam Hoden correctly states in the Free Press, unless the League impose BOTH a points penalty AND award the points to Rovers, they are setting a very dangerous precedent. A team may reckon that a three-point hit is worth taking if they can re-play a League match at a date that is more advantageous to them (the example he cites of a team with a big FA Cup tie to play is a valid one, I think).
-
Action on the Brentford game is still up for punishment along with ours.
Only the punishment. The game result is done and dusted.
-
It can't be swept under the carpet. Everyone in League One knows it is pending the outcome of the commission.
I'm sure all those directly and indirectly involved are frustrated how long it has taken. We knew from shortly after the incident that the EFL referred the case to the Independent Disciplinary Commission so it begs the question, why has the FA taken so long to set a date?
Of course The EFL need to review their actions which led to Bolton being allowed to start the season in the first place.
That will be part and parcel of the review being carried out by Jonathan Taylor QC I would assume.
-
I'm rather tired of hearing what should or should not be done about a postponed game. It was not postponed, Bolton unilaterly decided to cancel the fixture.
They did not consult with the EFL or Doncaster. They simply announced a cancellation on the club web site without having the common decency to advise the other parties involved.
That action should not be rewarded with a rearranged fixture. The fixture was conceded. They refused to play. They withdrew.
As far as Doncaster Rovers is concerned, they were willing and able to play. They were denied an inevitable 3 points. The margin of victory is nominal and at the discretion of the EFL to award be it 1-0 or greater.
As for Bolton, they have to be punished for disregarding EFL rules and protocols. It cannot be swept under the carpet. Whatever the ruling they should accept it for acting in such an unprofessional manner and bringing the competition into disrepute.
The EFL should carry out an enquiry into their own procedures, dragging their feet and failing to act decisively. The whole shit show is becoming an embarrassment.
The Rovers might take legal action to secure the points, more mess’s for the EFL to sort out, and what if, just what if, Bolton stage a miracle run of results and a points deduction then causes them to be relegated.
In reply to the last part of the message above, that would be the upmost example of karma working its magic!!!!!!
-
I think we should hold a referendum.
-
It doesn’t matter that the opponent was Bolton - our opponent in a properly organised professional football fixture declined unilaterally to play and without permission nor informing us nor the organiser..
The game was forfeit - we get the result and as this was a league match that’s 3 points and a default winning score..
What other punishments the authorities dish out to Bolton is another matter entirely.
-
It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad, Football has been the most execrably led and managed sport for 50 years now. You can go right back to the wage cap and Jimmy Hill: nothing's ever changed, been planned, been managed, until it has been absolutely forced on these vacuous, empty headed people. Blazers follow blazers. Even the redoutable Alan Hardaker had his own, personal, agenda. The absence of foresight follows yet more absence of foresight. Jobs for aged boys in blazers follows yet more more jobs for aged boys in blazers. Their farcical inability to link cause with effect, to recognise a pattern, to grasp a nettle, has done more harm, over a longer period, to football than has been suffered by any other sport. And I include English cricket in that. They sat, resolutely, on their hands in 1998. I still have the letters documenting criminal wrong doing by one of their members. I know for a fact they had a file over a foot deep in Lytham St Annes on that horror show. They studiously ignored the lot.
We can't expect anything timely, sensible or even wise from these muppets. They are incapable of it.
BobG
-
Could they be waiting until we’ve played them at home to avoid any bad feeling at the game a decision might cause?
-
Bob, that was like a breath of fresh air. Thank you.
-
Could we assume that what ever the EFL outcome is.... it’s likely that either club will appeal it as it won’t satisfy both clubs. So if they don’t make a decision soon, then any appeal could rumble on close to the end of the season. How vital could 3 points be if we’re close to the play offs at the end of the season and this appeal still rumbles on? There could be implications for the play offs if it’s not sorted soon!
-
According to a column by the Accrington chairman that the EFL want our game to take ace sometime in the near future
-
The one on the DFP site.?
Says “at some point” - not “near future”..
-
According to a column by the Accrington chairman that the EFL want our game to take ace sometime in the near future
If the Disciplinary Commission hasn't sat yet and the sanctions haven't been determined how can that be true?
-
According to a column by the Accrington chairman that the EFL want our game to take ace sometime in the near future
Having read the article that's not what was reported.
"it is understood..." "A final decision is yet to be made."
That suggests that someone connected with the EFL has offered an opinion but that doesn't mean that will be the outcome.
As suggested above, if the outcome is unsatisfactory to Bolton, ourselves and has implications for the integrity of the game going forward, there's likely to be appeals and complaints from other clubs.
-
If they
replay rearrange the game, it sets up the possibility that if Rovers lose we would be the injured party but get absolutely nothing to show for it.
-
The game can’t be replayed as it was never started in the first place.
-
Just to reiterate they can't replay a game that has not been played.
-
Fixed.
-
There is a column on the free press website from the EFL and it says the only fare and propper thing is to give Rovers the points
-
It's DFPs opinion on the matter. I'm sure we all agree.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers/why-efl-must-take-hard-line-bolton-wanderers-postponement-doncaster-rovers-clash-and-it-bigger-either-club-828352
-
It's DFPs opinion on the matter. I'm sure we all agree.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers/why-efl-must-take-hard-line-bolton-wanderers-postponement-doncaster-rovers-clash-and-it-bigger-either-club-828352
There is a column on the free press website from the EFL and it says the only fare and propper thing is to give Rovers the points
I don’t think it is from the EFL, it is more likely written by Hoden in conjunction with DRFC to put out there a further viewpoint on what they (and we) consider to be the fair and proper thing to do.
-
It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad, Football has been the most execrably led and managed sport for 50 years now. You can go right back to the wage cap and Jimmy Hill: nothing's ever changed, been planned, been managed, until it has been absolutely forced on these vacuous, empty headed people. Blazers follow blazers. Even the redoutable Alan Hardaker had his own, personal, agenda. The absence of foresight follows yet more absence of foresight. Jobs for aged boys in blazers follows yet more more jobs for aged boys in blazers. Their farcical inability to link cause with effect, to recognise a pattern, to grasp a nettle, has done more harm, over a longer period, to football than has been suffered by any other sport. And I include English cricket in that. They sat, resolutely, on their hands in 1998. I still have the letters documenting criminal wrong doing by one of their members. I know for a fact they had a file over a foot deep in Lytham St Annes on that horror show. They studiously ignored the lot.
We can't expect anything timely, sensible or even wise from these muppets. They are incapable of it.
BobG
By God, Bob; what a fantastic post that is.
-
That article is the opinion of Liam Hoden and Liam Hoden alone. Fair play to him for nailing his colours to the mast on the issue. Gavin Baldwin has previously said he's pushing for us to receive the points, the EFL have said nothing either way.
As I've said before I think it is likely the game will have to be played eventually, with Bolton receiving a further points deduction and perhaps ourselves receiving a small financial recompense.
-
At the very least I'd expect Rovers to get all the gate money and media revenue, so that Bolton aren't able to profit from their actions.
-
The argument was the young men could not play two games in a week.
Yet they did at the start of the season when they played in the Carabo Cup. Even after they unilaterally cancelled our game and after the takeover. The same team with young men played on the Tuesday night 3rd of September in the Leasing.com Trophy game. The new signings were not integrated into the team until the following Saturday.
The EFL from the start of the season made the wrong decision they have allowed a weakened team to compete in League 1 teams that achieved 3pts and 4/5 goals which could make a difference at the end of the season. If we have to play then what will stop any league team from cancelling games, knowing the league will allow to play the game again at their convenience.
-
Interestingly Macclesfield players are considering strike action over late wages. If the don’t fulfil their fa cup tie, not only will they be eliminated this season, but barred from entry next season too.
Yes it is a different competition but the outcome is the same, their opponents get the victory and there is sanction against the offending club.
I can’t see why the EFL doesn’t do the same.?
-
I hope that the Macclesfield players do refuse to play.
Their opponents will be awarded the win and it might help our cause.
-
Hold on a mo. Should this be a trigger for the EFL to step in and seek assurances from Macclesfield owners they can fund the rest of the season at least?
If lessons have been learned from the Bury and Bolton fiasco, the EFL should be on to this if they aren't already
-
Ho ho ho ho Baz!!!! Don't be so silly :) The Football league? Learning a lesson? Pull the other one. Go on.
Cheers
BobG
-
According to a column by the Accrington chairman that the EFL want our game to take ace sometime in the near future
If the Disciplinary Commission hasn't sat yet and the sanctions haven't been determined how can that be true?
don't ask me but it's a statement from Accrington chairman
-
But he doesn’t say “near future” anywhere..
-
According to a column by the Accrington chairman that the EFL want our game to take ace sometime in the near future
If the Disciplinary Commission hasn't sat yet and the sanctions haven't been determined how can that be true?
don't ask me but it's a statement from Accrington chairman
Yes, and as I pointed out earlier the same article also says no decision has been made yet.
-
Said this before. If it had been Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Et Al. They would have had the points the next morning if not beforehand. Regards. Ray
-
The argument about the health of young players at Bolton was bogus, pathetic and a complete red herring in my opinion.
Bolton just didn't want to lose another game and fall further behind at the foot of the table.
At the start of the 1980/81 season the age of seven of the Rovers players who were among the 11 highest league appearance makers that season were 17, 17, 19, 19, 21, 21 and 21.
At the end of the season we finished third and won promotion.
Ian Snodin and David Harle were still 17 at the end of the season but they made 35 first team appearances each.
Maybe we were all a bit tougher in those days, and maybe tennis players are much tougher now than young footballers.
Coco Gauff won four long matches inside a week at Wimbledon this year at the age of 15 but I didn't hear anyone calling in medical experts or the NSPCC.
The Football League turned it's back on Rovers when they refused to get involved during the dark days of 'Uncle' Ken Richardson.
Surely they won't do the same again.
-
It’s not about why the postponed it’s about if it was within the spirit of the rules by acting unilaterally. They made a choice that benefited Bolton without seeking consultation with those effected ie EFL or DRFC or advice if they even could .
If they had spoken to the EFL it would have resulted in a decision based on the rules and instead they assumed that would not be allowed under the rules and cancelled anyway . They are guilty and the EFL should stop procrastinating by allowing this none situation to create a story of indecision by creating faulse presidents. DRFC should take the matter to court NOW and ask the court to get the EFL to act within its rule and both sides to except the outcome what ever that maybe ,as they are not being considered by the backlog in fixtures that had begun to pile up . To demonstrate on how ridicules has this situation is , that we DRFC who are out of pocket and can not reschedule the fixture without prior permissions from both Bolton and The EFL . How ironic is that !!
-
I'm sure we're all in agreement however, not sure about the merit of court action at this stage when the Commission hasn't even sat yet or delivered it's decision. I can see clubs getting increasingly frustrated, if not angry, and looking collectively for more expedience on the matter afterall, we're approaching mid point of the season.
Not sure who's dragging their feet though, as it appears to be in the hands of the FA and blow me, when they finally set a date, it clashes with an EFL board meeting! I'm fairly sure Debbie Jeavons will play a major role in this, presenting the EFL's case to the Commission but given she was responsible for the call that got us into this mess in the first place, you wonder whether she will somehow defend her own actions.
In addition, as said above, if this had been higher profile clubs, its likely it would have been done by now!
-
We need to stop using the word "postponed".
It wasn't postponed
-
Do you seriously think that if someone on this forum uses the word postponed it makes any difference :headbang:
-
It was a refusal to fulfil a fixture. And should be punished appropriately.
-
Do you seriously think that if someone on this forum uses the word postponed it makes any difference :headbang:
It's the same as if someone refers to our old, or even current ground as Belle View.
-
Yes it does matter when the word postpone is used.
The word postpone means: 'cause or arrange for (something) to take place at a time later than that first scheduled'.
If you accept it was postponed, if you describe it as postponed, if you treat it as postponed, then the game must be replayed.
Cancelled, on the other hand means: 'no longer planned or scheduled; invalidated; removed.
By saying that something is 'cancelled, you are actually suggesting it no longer matters and what happens to it should no longer matter.
By not advising the authorities or the opposition, clearly the game was cancelled, which means concede, surrender, yield.
It was not postponed. Any possible claim to the points or attempt to now replay the fixture by the owners of Bolton has no merit.
Such a case is dependent on that one word. That is why it is important.
-
We’ve already got enough ‘postponed’ games to fit into our schedule, without having to pander to BWFC and their cancelled fixture!
The league table is a right old mess, when you look at who has played what. We are already 3 games in hand on Peterborough, for example, and it’s only November.
If anything, it puts even more focus on the Bolton fiasco (as that is exactly what the EFL have allowed it to become). With those 3 points rightfully awarded and (say) 3 goals added to our goal difference, we are in a comfortable position going into the Christmas/New Year schedule, unless, of course someone else cries off!
-
Quote from: knockers on November 07, 2019, 04:08:59 PM
Do you seriously think that if someone on this forum uses the word postponed it makes any difference
It's the same as if someone refers to our old, or even current ground as Belle View
Or referring to our record signing as Billy Sharpe
-
Bolton fan here and can I say that having read all the previous posts I can well understand and accept the points made. I would though like to correct a few points. At the time the match should have been played our club was actually without an owner under administration and it was the administrator not the club who cancelled the game. They did so under advice from then manager Phil Parkinson regarding the EFL rules on young players. Parkinson left the club shortly afterwards. Maybe he was more interested in his own managerial record than our club or players?
Either way nobody at Wanderers was happy with the cancellation as we were improving with each game. The EFL have much to answer for in allowing a crook like Ken Anderson from owning and raping our club as he had with Southampton some years earlier and receiving an 8 year ban. There’s a much wider issue here with the EFL than this match and whichever way the EFL jumps I think legal action will result. As for Donny, I think you should have the 3 points as it was not at all your fault but of course that could spark complaint from Coventry who could only draw with us.
For what it’s worth, I believe we will recover the deficit we’ve faced and avoid relegation, even without these 3 points but finally as a fan I’d just like to say that none of us have control over who owns us. Both Bury and ourselves suffered crooks and I only hope that never happens to you but always remember that it very well could. Good luck this season anyway and I look forward to visiting the Keemoat later in the season when I expect us to get the 3 points back. ;-))
-
Bolton fan here and can I say that having read all the previous posts I can well understand and accept the points made. I would though like to correct a few points. At the time the match should have been played our club was actually without an owner under administration and it was the administrator not the club who cancelled the game. They did so under advice from then manager Phil Parkinson regarding the EFL rules on young players. Parkinson left the club shortly afterwards. Maybe he was more interested in his own managerial record than our club or players?
Either way nobody at Wanderers was happy with the cancellation as we were improving with each game. The EFL have much to answer for in allowing a crook like Ken Anderson from owning and raping our club as he had with Southampton some years earlier and receiving an 8 year ban. There’s a much wider issue here with the EFL than this match and whichever way the EFL jumps I think legal action will result. As for Donny, I think you should have the 3 points as it was not at all your fault but of course that could spark complaint from Coventry who could only draw with us.
For what it’s worth, I believe we will recover the deficit we’ve faced and avoid relegation, even without these 3 points but finally as a fan I’d just like to say that none of us have control over who owns us. Both Bury and ourselves suffered crooks and I only hope that never happens to you but always remember that it very well could. Good luck this season anyway and I look forward to visiting the Keemoat later in the season when I expect us to get the 3 points back. ;-))
It has happened to us, we lost our league status, none of you lot cared then, I’m sure a further points deduction will ensure your deserved relegation. The administrators were default owners
-
Whilst I feel for the genuine fan there has been some shite directed at us from over the hills for daring to suggest we should get the points.
I’m glad you’ve survived but given a choice of saving only one of the clubs in turmoil, my vote would have gone to Bury.
Unfortunately Bolton lost a lot of respect years ago trying to get a closed shop for PL
-
Bolton fan here and can I say that having read all the previous posts I can well understand and accept the points made. I would though like to correct a few points. At the time the match should have been played our club was actually without an owner under administration and it was the administrator not the club who cancelled the game. They did so under advice from then manager Phil Parkinson regarding the EFL rules on young players. Parkinson left the club shortly afterwards. Maybe he was more interested in his own managerial record than our club or players?
Either way nobody at Wanderers was happy with the cancellation as we were improving with each game. The EFL have much to answer for in allowing a crook like Ken Anderson from owning and raping our club as he had with Southampton some years earlier and receiving an 8 year ban. There’s a much wider issue here with the EFL than this match and whichever way the EFL jumps I think legal action will result. As for Donny, I think you should have the 3 points as it was not at all your fault but of course that could spark complaint from Coventry who could only draw with us.
For what it’s worth, I believe we will recover the deficit we’ve faced and avoid relegation, even without these 3 points but finally as a fan I’d just like to say that none of us have control over who owns us. Both Bury and ourselves suffered crooks and I only hope that never happens to you but always remember that it very well could. Good luck this season anyway and I look forward to visiting the Keemoat later in the season when I expect us to get the 3 points back. ;-))
Thank you for posting.
It’s a difficult situation but in effect the administrator was Bolton, at the time. This incident happened this season so it doesn’t matter who the owners were/are.
From our point of view the reason that Bolton didn’t play is irrelevant, it is how it was handled and communicated that is the issue.
It is irrelevant too that it was Bolton, we should get the points for a forfeit game regardless of the opposition. I would also argue the same outcome should this have happened to one of our rivals - they should get the points.
I personally have little interest in any further punishment awarded to Bolton. I have no problem with Bolton but the authorities need to get this sorted as it’s been long enough now..
-
Filo my friend - that is a little bit harsh and unlike you if I may say so, although the pain of 1998 still burns in us today so I can understand your reaction.
Frankie -welcome to this board where we welcome all true fans. If you are under 40 you may well have no idea of what happenned to us in 1998. Filo - having been through that we should well understand the good points he is making, and he is wishing us well.
Frankie - in 1998 our old dilapidated ground Belle Vue was on prime real estate ripe for development profits. Our then owner sabotaged the club with the aim of making us fold, which he probably saw as a consequence if we lost our league status. Any player any good was shown the door, and he played his overweight next door neighbour in goal against our only credible rivals for bottom place. He got impatient and tried to burn the ground down, which was his undoing because his henchman dropped his mobile phone at the scene. There was significant damage to our main stand, but we played on, in front of crowds less than 1000, often losing by 5,6,7 or even 8 goals. We had a Football League record of 34 defeats that season. At the end of the season we were sure the club was gone and a mock funeral was held. Joyously, and to our surprise we had a saviour who rescued us, but it was a long hard slog - we were nearly relegated from the Conference in our first season, and it took us 5 years to get back to the Football League. We know first hand the hurt of a club being sabotaged, and have huge sympathy with Bury fans and yourselves. Our only beef is the way the cancellation, whoever at your club was responsible for it, was handled without informing the EFL or oursleves. And we were the only occasion this happenned when there were, to our eyes, other weeks with a similar situation when Bolton did not cancel matches.
Whatever the outcome this season, all true Doncaster fans are happy that it looks like there well be a Bolton team next season, and we hope something can be done for Bury as well. However IMHO relegation to League 2 if it happens should not be a disaster this season - you would be likely to have a good season next season and regain momentum.
We are still smarting from 1998 and what nearly happened, and we felt alone and abandoned. I hope your road to full recovery is shorter than ours.
-
Irrespective of the club or the predicament, the authorities need to make it absolutely clear that no club can make a decision not to fulfill a fixture and claim it as postponed.
As said above, whether in administration or not, both the Administrator and Phil Parkinson were well aware of the rules and the protocol, having already spoken to the EFL prior to the Tranmere game. They took the decision in full knowledge of the rule break and sanctions would be forthcoming. In addition, the chosen method of communication was totally disrespectful to a fellow professional club and it's supporters and, to the EFL themselves.
We wish a fellow football club all the best in recovering from dark times, just as we did but, this cannot be at the expense of a well run football club who abides by the rules.
-
Bolton fan here and can I say that having read all the previous posts I can well understand and accept the points made. I would though like to correct a few points. At the time the match should have been played our club was actually without an owner under administration and it was the administrator not the club who cancelled the game. They did so under advice from then manager Phil Parkinson regarding the EFL rules on young players. Parkinson left the club shortly afterwards. Maybe he was more interested in his own managerial record than our club or players?
Either way nobody at Wanderers was happy with the cancellation as we were improving with each game. The EFL have much to answer for in allowing a crook like Ken Anderson from owning and raping our club as he had with Southampton some years earlier and receiving an 8 year ban. There’s a much wider issue here with the EFL than this match and whichever way the EFL jumps I think legal action will result. As for Donny, I think you should have the 3 points as it was not at all your fault but of course that could spark complaint from Coventry who could only draw with us.
For what it’s worth, I believe we will recover the deficit we’ve faced and avoid relegation, even without these 3 points but finally as a fan I’d just like to say that none of us have control over who owns us. Both Bury and ourselves suffered crooks and I only hope that never happens to you but always remember that it very well could. Good luck this season anyway and I look forward to visiting the Keemoat later in the season when I expect us to get the 3 points back. ;-))
You were improving with every game?
In reality you were losing 5-0 every week.
I suppose you would also argue that the matches you played under the Adminstrators should be wiped from the record and be replayed.
If you think that is ridiculous, then that is how we feel about your suggestion that it wasn’t the fault of BWFC that you failed to fulfill the fixture against us.
-
Dutch Uncle, many thanks for your reasoned and polite reply. I am old enough to remember Belle Vue and visited there just once as we were rarely in the same division. I also remember the disgraceful actions of your owner and whether you knew it or not had the sympathy from all decent football fans. Thankfully your proud club has come through it and with a cracking new stadium, loyal following and good owner there’s no limit to what you can achieve.
Naturally I fully understand your dissatisfaction with the unacceptable way the game was cancelled, we weren’t happy either. Sadly at that time our club was going through hell, a despicable, corrupt owner, striking players and a manager who knew he was going to leave one way or the other. It wasn’t however the fans or even BWFCs fault because at that time it was entirely up to the Administrator who made all decisions. Equally one of your other contributors quoted our Chairman at the time, Phil Gartside ( nickname Gartslime) which should tell you what we thought of him, who pushed for PL2. Again this was one man not the club or fans. Unfortunately these idiots get control of clubs and we as fans can’t do anything about it. As for punishment, nobody now at the club was responsible for what happened up to the cancellation and whilst that’s not your concern, I would ask you as fellow fans to remember your own issues and that these things happened and could very well happen again.
As for the EFL and the delay in pronouncing on things, it’s affecting us too and we want it resolved but you have to take into account that we at BWFC believe the EFL are largely responsible for our predicament. Shawn Harvey who was in charge at that time and originally sanctioned Ken Anderson as our sole owner, had been challenged for two years over what was going on yet ignored protests even from local MPs. For over a year, suppliers, HMRC, Bolton Council, Poluce and suppliers remained unpaid whilst he funnelled money out of the club to his overseas accounts. None of this is of course an excuse to you but it might be why the EFL are considering their position because too heavy a further penalty on us and I’m sure legal action would follow. Anyway good luck in the cup today and however it’s resolved let’s hope it doesn’t stop us both enjoying the rest of the season.
Filo my friend - that is a little bit harsh and unlike you if I may say so, although the pain of 1998 still burns in us today so I can understand your reaction.
Frankie -welcome to this board where we welcome all true fans. If you are under 40 you may well have no idea of what happenned to us in 1998. Filo - having been through that we should well understand the good points he is making, and he is wishing us well.
Frankie - in 1998 our old dilapidated ground Belle Vue was on prime real estate ripe for development profits. Our then owner sabotaged the club with the aim of making us fold, which he probably saw as a consequence if we lost our league status. Any player any good was shown the door, and he played his overweight next door neighbour in goal against our only credible rivals for bottom place. He got impatient and tried to burn the ground down, which was his undoing because his henchman dropped his mobile phone at the scene. There was significant damage to our main stand, but we played on, in front of crowds less than 1000, often losing by 5,6,7 or even 8 goals. We had a Football League record of 34 defeats that season. At the end of the season we were sure the club was gone and a mock funeral was held. Joyously, and to our surprise we had a saviour who rescued us, but it was a long hard slog - we were nearly relegated from the Conference in our first season, and it took us 5 years to get back to the Football League. We know first hand the hurt of a club being sabotaged, and have huge sympathy with Bury fans and yourselves. Our only beef is the way the cancellation, whoever at your club was responsible for it, was handled without informing the EFL or oursleves. And we were the only occasion this happenned when there were, to our eyes, other weeks with a similar situation when Bolton did not cancel matches.
Whatever the outcome this season, all true Doncaster fans are happy that it looks like there well be a Bolton team next season, and we hope something can be done for Bury as well. However IMHO relegation to League 2 if it happens should not be a disaster this season - you would be likely to have a good season next season and regain momentum.
We are still smarting from 1998 and what nearly happened, and we felt alone and abandoned. I hope your road to full recovery is shorter than ours.
-
Whoever was in charge at the club made the decision; whoever you want to blame for the state of the club at that time is irrelevant. And any subsequent legal battle would be in vain; YOUR CLUB called of the match without the agreement of the opposition or the football league, it's as simple as that.
When our club was going through hell in 1998; when we had to borrow nets, play teams full of kids and ask next door neighbours of players to play for us, we STILL managed to meet all fixtures.
Bolton simply don't have a leg to stand on here, and as others have mentioned, setting a precedent that similar future actions by others clubs will only incur a points deduction and/or fine is very dangerous and will damage the integrity of the Football League.
-
Why not have the two Chairman and Chief Executives have a meeting to put their case to one another before the EFL and an independent arbitator..involve the people concerned .
-
In many respects any punishment awarded to Bolton is irrelevant to us. The crux of the issue is that regardless of why this action was taken, the game was forfeit.
Therefore the reasonable outcome is for 3 points to Doncaster and a suitable default scoreline (2 or 3 nil) awarded.
As I said before, this would be my opinion regardless of which team forfeits a fixture unilaterally nor their opposition.
It’s simple, refuse to play without permission, you lose the game. Maybe a fine for the club forfeiting and a suspended points deduction.
As far as the other 21 clubs are concerned, the only issue is that Bolton should not benefit by having a chance to win those points, and the fine and suspended points deduction can act as a deterrent to others, but without giving Bolton a double whammy punishment.
-
With respect the scoreline would have to be a 1-0 to Doncaster to set a proper precedent; whether or not Bolton were losing by big scorelines before or after the forfeited match is irrelevant. The punishment should be concerned with the fact a match was forfeited.
-
IDM, your post got me thinking about the possible consequences of the Bolton match being played instead of being forfeited by them.
The Bolton poster has said that he thinks that BWFC will recover from the points deficit and avoid relegation.
We have already heard that some, or all, of the other L1 clubs are against us being awarded the win and three points.
I wonder what one of those clubs would think if Bolton beat us (if the game is played) and those three points, or even one point if we drew, kept Bolton up at the expense of their clubs.
-
Precisely..
Only two clubs can gain points from any one fixture. This fixture was forfeit therefore the points should be ours..
-
Dutch Uncle, many thanks for your reasoned and polite reply. I am old enough to remember Belle Vue and visited there just once as we were rarely in the same division. I also remember the disgraceful actions of your owner and whether you knew it or not had the sympathy from all decent football fans. Thankfully your proud club has come through it and with a cracking new stadium, loyal following and good owner there’s no limit to what you can achieve.
Naturally I fully understand your dissatisfaction with the unacceptable way the game was cancelled, we weren’t happy either. Sadly at that time our club was going through hell, a despicable, corrupt owner, striking players and a manager who knew he was going to leave one way or the other. It wasn’t however the fans or even BWFCs fault because at that time it was entirely up to the Administrator who made all decisions. Equally one of your other contributors quoted our Chairman at the time, Phil Gartside ( nickname Gartslime) which should tell you what we thought of him, who pushed for PL2. Again this was one man not the club or fans. Unfortunately these idiots get control of clubs and we as fans can’t do anything about it. As for punishment, nobody now at the club was responsible for what happened up to the cancellation and whilst that’s not your concern, I would ask you as fellow fans to remember your own issues and that these things happened and could very well happen again.
As for the EFL and the delay in pronouncing on things, it’s affecting us too and we want it resolved but you have to take into account that we at BWFC believe the EFL are largely responsible for our predicament. Shawn Harvey who was in charge at that time and originally sanctioned Ken Anderson as our sole owner, had been challenged for two years over what was going on yet ignored protests even from local MPs. For over a year, suppliers, HMRC, Bolton Council, Poluce and suppliers remained unpaid whilst he funnelled money out of the club to his overseas accounts. None of this is of course an excuse to you but it might be why the EFL are considering their position because too heavy a further penalty on us and I’m sure legal action would follow. Anyway good luck in the cup today and however it’s resolved let’s hope it doesn’t stop us both enjoying the rest of the season.
Filo my friend - that is a little bit harsh and unlike you if I may say so, although the pain of 1998 still burns in us today so I can understand your reaction.
Frankie -welcome to this board where we welcome all true fans. If you are under 40 you may well have no idea of what happenned to us in 1998. Filo - having been through that we should well understand the good points he is making, and he is wishing us well.
Frankie - in 1998 our old dilapidated ground Belle Vue was on prime real estate ripe for development profits. Our then owner sabotaged the club with the aim of making us fold, which he probably saw as a consequence if we lost our league status. Any player any good was shown the door, and he played his overweight next door neighbour in goal against our only credible rivals for bottom place. He got impatient and tried to burn the ground down, which was his undoing because his henchman dropped his mobile phone at the scene. There was significant damage to our main stand, but we played on, in front of crowds less than 1000, often losing by 5,6,7 or even 8 goals. We had a Football League record of 34 defeats that season. At the end of the season we were sure the club was gone and a mock funeral was held. Joyously, and to our surprise we had a saviour who rescued us, but it was a long hard slog - we were nearly relegated from the Conference in our first season, and it took us 5 years to get back to the Football League. We know first hand the hurt of a club being sabotaged, and have huge sympathy with Bury fans and yourselves. Our only beef is the way the cancellation, whoever at your club was responsible for it, was handled without informing the EFL or oursleves. And we were the only occasion this happenned when there were, to our eyes, other weeks with a similar situation when Bolton did not cancel matches.
Whatever the outcome this season, all true Doncaster fans are happy that it looks like there well be a Bolton team next season, and we hope something can be done for Bury as well. However IMHO relegation to League 2 if it happens should not be a disaster this season - you would be likely to have a good season next season and regain momentum.
We are still smarting from 1998 and what nearly happened, and we felt alone and abandoned. I hope your road to full recovery is shorter than ours.
I think emotion will always play a part in any discussion. Myself and Chas Walker (no shrinking violet in his more able days) were thrown out of a football federation of supporters meeting at Oldham for daring to bring up the situation at DRFC as it interfered with their discussion regarding the Christmas raffle. I remember being at Hull and at half time we were 0-0, second half were we on drugs 0-3. Awful season. However I do feel the postponement was wrong. Fundamentally because it was a profit motivated decision by corporate finance not as they portrayed it a benign welfare issue and that is what infuriates me and why morally we should have the points. Bolton's owners whoever made that call.
-
Bolton "fan" on twitter celebrating the floods and saying its Karma for us crying over the cancelled fixture.
What a piece of scum, a scourge to society.
-
Bolton "fan" on twitter celebrating the floods and saying its Karma for us crying over the cancelled fixture.
What a piece of scum, a scourge to society.
If we're forced to play this match against all precedent, true karma would be it being the match that relegates them when they get thumped by us.
-
Prez, we all have idiots in our club support. This cretin has probably never experienced a flood and to be fair I hope he doesn’t but commenting like that is just stupid. Look this is a Donny sure and I’ve made my point. I agree you should have the points for the way it was done but I’m not sure it will be that easy. I’m hoping we will survive, mammoth task that it is but now we have a proper team I think we have a good chance. Anyway I’ll leave you to it now but whatever happens over this I still expect us to get the 3 points back when we come to the Keepmoat.
-
Frankie Rennie sounds like a good, decent bloke to me, and most of what he says is true; particularly the bit about us deserving the points, but that it won't be easy.
As I've said before, the EFL will probably wait while the end of the season to see if the 3 points will impact on anyone's promotion or relegation prospects.
It's time a decision was made now, because this is going to the courts, whichever way the ruling goes.
Is Gina Miller a football fan?
-
I don’t think the EFL can continue to delay much longer Steve, even though I’m sure they’d like to. Looking at it sensibly, if we had played you at the time we would in all probability have lost the game, so it seems only fair to give you the points. Obviously that wouldn’t suit Wanderers and my view certainly won’t be shared by many others but why should you be penalised for our situation? I think the EFLs problem is that maybe the likes of Coventry who could only draw with us may complain and others playing us now would also have a grumble.
If you add in our complaints against the EFL from last season, you’ll appreciate the problem is much wider than just our game issue. I’m glad I’m not trying to resolve it but either way someone needs to do it sooner rather than later.
By the way totally off topic, I have the same birthdate as arguably your most respected past player Alick Jeffrey so maybe that’s why I’m so understanding of your position? 😉
-
Dutch Uncle, many thanks for your reasoned and polite reply. I am old enough to remember Belle Vue and visited there just once as we were rarely in the same division. I also remember the disgraceful actions of your owner and whether you knew it or not had the sympathy from all decent football fans. Thankfully your proud club has come through it and with a cracking new stadium, loyal following and good owner there’s no limit to what you can achieve.
Naturally I fully understand your dissatisfaction with the unacceptable way the game was cancelled, we weren’t happy either. Sadly at that time our club was going through hell, a despicable, corrupt owner, striking players and a manager who knew he was going to leave one way or the other. It wasn’t however the fans or even BWFCs fault because at that time it was entirely up to the Administrator who made all decisions. Equally one of your other contributors quoted our Chairman at the time, Phil Gartside ( nickname Gartslime) which should tell you what we thought of him, who pushed for PL2. Again this was one man not the club or fans. Unfortunately these idiots get control of clubs and we as fans can’t do anything about it. As for punishment, nobody now at the club was responsible for what happened up to the cancellation and whilst that’s not your concern, I would ask you as fellow fans to remember your own issues and that these things happened and could very well happen again.
As for the EFL and the delay in pronouncing on things, it’s affecting us too and we want it resolved but you have to take into account that we at BWFC believe the EFL are largely responsible for our predicament. Shawn Harvey who was in charge at that time and originally sanctioned Ken Anderson as our sole owner, had been challenged for two years over what was going on yet ignored protests even from local MPs. For over a year, suppliers, HMRC, Bolton Council, Poluce and suppliers remained unpaid whilst he funnelled money out of the club to his overseas accounts. None of this is of course an excuse to you but it might be why the EFL are considering their position because too heavy a further penalty on us and I’m sure legal action would follow. Anyway good luck in the cup today and however it’s resolved let’s hope it doesn’t stop us both enjoying the rest of the season.
Filo my friend - that is a little bit harsh and unlike you if I may say so, although the pain of 1998 still burns in us today so I can understand your reaction.
Frankie -welcome to this board where we welcome all true fans. If you are under 40 you may well have no idea of what happenned to us in 1998. Filo - having been through that we should well understand the good points he is making, and he is wishing us well.
Frankie - in 1998 our old dilapidated ground Belle Vue was on prime real estate ripe for development profits. Our then owner sabotaged the club with the aim of making us fold, which he probably saw as a consequence if we lost our league status. Any player any good was shown the door, and he played his overweight next door neighbour in goal against our only credible rivals for bottom place. He got impatient and tried to burn the ground down, which was his undoing because his henchman dropped his mobile phone at the scene. There was significant damage to our main stand, but we played on, in front of crowds less than 1000, often losing by 5,6,7 or even 8 goals. We had a Football League record of 34 defeats that season. At the end of the season we were sure the club was gone and a mock funeral was held. Joyously, and to our surprise we had a saviour who rescued us, but it was a long hard slog - we were nearly relegated from the Conference in our first season, and it took us 5 years to get back to the Football League. We know first hand the hurt of a club being sabotaged, and have huge sympathy with Bury fans and yourselves. Our only beef is the way the cancellation, whoever at your club was responsible for it, was handled without informing the EFL or oursleves. And we were the only occasion this happenned when there were, to our eyes, other weeks with a similar situation when Bolton did not cancel matches.
Whatever the outcome this season, all true Doncaster fans are happy that it looks like there well be a Bolton team next season, and we hope something can be done for Bury as well. However IMHO relegation to League 2 if it happens should not be a disaster this season - you would be likely to have a good season next season and regain momentum.
We are still smarting from 1998 and what nearly happened, and we felt alone and abandoned. I hope your road to full recovery is shorter than ours.
I think emotion will always play a part in any discussion. Myself and Chas Walker (no shrinking violet in his more able days) were thrown out of a football federation of supporters meeting at Oldham for daring to bring up the situation at DRFC as it interfered with their discussion regarding the Christmas raffle. I remember being at Hull and at half time we were 0-0, second half were we on drugs 0-3. Awful season. However I do feel the postponement was wrong. Fundamentally because it was a profit motivated decision by corporate finance not as they portrayed it a benign welfare issue and that is what infuriates me and why morally we should have the points. Bolton's owners whoever made that call.
I'd like to challenge your memory on this one. You've mentioned that occasion once before on this board, and for that reason I made enquiries as to how accurate that recollection is. Firstly the FSF wasn't in place at that point in time, nor have they ever held a meeting in Oldham.
At that point it would have been the Nat Fed who would have pursued the DRFC position and the northern branch did hold meetings in Oldham. The Nat Fed Chair at that time was a chap called Alan Bloore, who is quite adamant that never happened, and that he and Chas used to drive to meetings together where they fully supported the position of all DRFC fans.
Alan, who happens to live in Doncaster, and myself chatted to Chas on more than one occasion where we recalled the previous issues at DRFC . I think your memory of 'being thrown out' is somewhat clouded by something.
-
make bolton play the game at a neutral ground and proceeds go to charity
-
No, just award DRFC the 3 points..
-
Seems like a decision will be made by Friday..........independent disciplinary commission meeting today.
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/18034793.bolton-wanderers-wait-imminent-efl-punishment-decision/
-
Yes, will be interesting to know whether DRFC will be made aware of the decision before being made public.
Another thing that's been obvious from this issue is the absence of any specific time frames in the disciplinary procedures. The only relevant reference is appeals must be lodged within 14 days! In any disciplinary, all parties need to ensure they are prepared and have all the relevant evidence so surely a timescale of within 28 days from the offence shouldn't be unreasonable should it!?
-
Interesting point in the article, they say Bolton cutes “Premier League Handbook rules.. on Acadeny games...”
What has that got to do with the EFL as a competition and EFL fixtures.?
-
Do you seriously think that if someone on this forum uses the word postponed it makes any difference :headbang:
It factually incorrect. Mind you don't hurt your head
-
Comments from some Bolton fans on that article.....
Cancelling games at the last minute because of a waterlogged or frozen pitch is acceptable as they need to protect the players but cancelling a game by adhering to the rules regarding young players isn't. Grounds in this day and age should be able to deal with these problems as part of the membership to be a league club . Maybe the EFL should start awarding the points to the away team for a last minute cancellation as the home team failed to to play the fixture when they should have. We have plenty of time to reschedule the Doncaster game but they will probably complain that that wouldn't have been the team they thought they would play.As for the Brentford game they got the points so why deduct them off us in a different league and season.
......and
Surely common sense will dictate here, we tecnically lost lost seasons game so that has been and gone and the Doncaster came can and should be rescheduled, i wish we had not started the season till we got our new squad, If Bury would have been allowed to reschedule 5-6 games surely we should be allowed one without further punishment.
......and
Any penalty should and will be suspended I'm sure. If we survive from -12 that's a miracle and deserved. We have abided by the academy rules Regards academy players and surely the EFL won't be so callous as to punish us because if they do they are effectively saying we should have played the game and put them at risk. They made the decision to allow us to start the season knowing we had an academy squad so how can they also not accept some responsibility for what the outcome was? The game should be rearranged and we should get a suspended penalty if anything and let's leave it at that! The pressure from the other EFL clubs is only for their selfish gain but if they really care about a football clubs survival they would accept the current penalties imposed are enough.
..... but also
we had the players to play against doncaster we had a team, its no different premier league teams playing the under23s in the leasing cup. it was that useless manager we had parkinson, yes he be sacked before christmas the useless clown
.......and
I think it will be 6 points! 3 for each game and possibly a financial penalty as well. Certainly in my opinion the 3 points should be awarded to Doncaster as they were to Brentford because in no way were either club responsible for our actions. It's just sad that none of the perpetrators are still here and new management and the fans have to carry the can.
.......and finally
I've heard that the other league chairman have agreed to a -9 to -15 points deduction, whether that happens I don't know but I hope not.
-
Avoiding a further 12 points deduction by simply playing a game and loosing , would surly have been sensible knowing that a further deduction could most definitely result in relegation to L2. The cost DRFC money , broke EFL rules and acted in self interest without consolidation so 12 points would be a correct result and awarding of the points Win to DRFC.
-
That article still says the match was postponed. IT WASN'T IT WAS CANCELLED. Their argument does not hold water as they played the youth team players both Saturday and Tuesday the following week.
-
Comments from some Bolton fans on that article.....
Cancelling games at the last minute because of a waterlogged or frozen pitch is acceptable as they need to protect the players but cancelling a game by adhering to the rules regarding young players isn't. Grounds in this day and age should be able to deal with these problems as part of the membership to be a league club . Maybe the EFL should start awarding the points to the away team for a last minute cancellation as the home team failed to to play the fixture when they should have. We have plenty of time to reschedule the Doncaster game but they will probably complain that that wouldn't have been the team they thought they would play.As for the Brentford game they got the points so why deduct them off us in a different league and season.
......and
Surely common sense will dictate here, we tecnically lost lost seasons game so that has been and gone and the Doncaster came can and should be rescheduled, i wish we had not started the season till we got our new squad, If Bury would have been allowed to reschedule 5-6 games surely we should be allowed one without further punishment.
......and
Any penalty should and will be suspended I'm sure. If we survive from -12 that's a miracle and deserved. We have abided by the academy rules Regards academy players and surely the EFL won't be so callous as to punish us because if they do they are effectively saying we should have played the game and put them at risk. They made the decision to allow us to start the season knowing we had an academy squad so how can they also not accept some responsibility for what the outcome was? The game should be rearranged and we should get a suspended penalty if anything and let's leave it at that! The pressure from the other EFL clubs is only for their selfish gain but if they really care about a football clubs survival they would accept the current penalties imposed are enough.
..... but also
we had the players to play against doncaster we had a team, its no different premier league teams playing the under23s in the leasing cup. it was that useless manager we had parkinson, yes he be sacked before christmas the useless clown
.......and
I think it will be 6 points! 3 for each game and possibly a financial penalty as well. Certainly in my opinion the 3 points should be awarded to Doncaster as they were to Brentford because in no way were either club responsible for our actions. It's just sad that none of the perpetrators are still here and new management and the fans have to carry the can.
.......and finally
I've heard that the other league chairman have agreed to a -9 to -15 points deduction, whether that happens I don't know but I hope not.
They don’t seem to get that the issue isn’t why the game didn’t happen, but how it was handled by Bolton.
-
The latest comment is laughable..........
You can look at it this way. The Brentford match was postponed and cancelled in the season 2018/2019. A decision was made to award the match to Brentford 3 points to them and 0 points to us, that season we went into Administration a result of the club unable to pay its debts and therefore unable to continue as a going concern, part of that debt was owed to players, the reason the Brentford game was not played, also the decision sanctioned by the PFA.
The Brentford cancellation was all part of the reason we went into Administration and for that, we have had a 12 point deduction, we have been punished all ready for the season 2018/2019, therefore, there should be no further punishment due.
At the time we were due to play Doncaster the club was still in Administration and the people in charge and responsible for the club were the Administrators, the EFL was allowing us to play our games because they were expecting us to be taken over at any moment, they knew the situation with our playing staff, they had seen the results from those matches played they also knew it was causing unfair competition, more so this unfair competition was against the rules advised for those on Scholarship contracts (more or less the whole team at that time).
The EFL was supposed to be keeping a close eye on us during this period, they should have been looking at the welfare of our brave kids and intervening themselves not leaving it to Administrators with no experience of running football clubs, we as a club tried very hard to fulfil our fixtures and we did in the main but enough was enough we had to do something and we did albeit a late notification.
Ohh I do feel sorry for poor old Donny and others that were not matched against us so early in the season and that instead of looking forward, rubbing your hands, to playing our kids, now instead you lot are frightened to death of facing us.
To the EFL we have no case to answer and if we do get a further points deduction, fight them, fight them on the beaches, everywhere just fight them.
-
In terms of the outcome of the hearing, I think and hope the following will happen.
1. Primary judgement. Bolton found guilty of misconduct for a breach of rules by failing to fulfil a fixture and failing to inform relevant parties.
The judgement must reflect that no club can take the law into their own hands.
The sanction is a forfeit of the game to DRFC and an order to pay financial compensation to DRFC.
2. Further sanctions. Given the EFL's part in allowing Bolton to start the season, then allowing them to continue, beyond the point their takeover didn't happen, I think the commission may decide they have some mitigating circumstances.
Bolton may also rely on the Welfare issue however the commission must determine whether these Premier League Academy guidelines are relevant to Bolton. Part of this may be looking deeper into the ages of the players available etc, and the discussions that took place prior to our game.
Given the Brentford match last season, where Brentford were awarded a 1-0 win, and Bolton aslo received a 12 point penalty for going into administration, they may judge that no further sanctions should apply to this season.
Therefore, just on our game, we should get the 3 points and financial compensation however I suspect Bolton will receive a financial penalty, the level of which may depend on whether the commission accepts Bolton's mitigating circumstances.
-
Get ready, I can see the game being played no matter what our feelings are
-
I can imagine the club may appeal if that is the decision from today’s meeting..
-
They cheated. Absolutely bang to rights.
Chances of us getting full recompense of points and cash is probably close to zero.
-
Personally I think it will be rescheduled we will appeal but still have to play it we may get a small financial payout to cover the extra hotel and coach payment.
Then the efl will then bring out a rule to cover cancelled games as a forefit to avoid this again in the future.
Bolton may get another points deduction i.e 3 points to cover off if they win but we will still get the rough end of the stick.
And if it's any better than that I'll be happy
-
Looks like the EFL have been busy. Another disciplinary for the FA and our friends down the road.
Sheffield Wednesday: EFL charge Owls with misconduct following Hillsborough sale - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50418776
-
Quote: "Bolton may also rely on the Welfare issue however the commission must determine whether these Premier League Academy guidelines are relevant to Bolton."
Have to disagree strongly with this reasoning. It was never in Bolton's gift to cancel the game. If Bolton wished to cancel then there is a perfectly clear procedure to follow. Bolton was required to seek permission from the EFL laying out a specific reason supported by appropriate evidence.
Similarly the earlier comment about games postponed due to inclement weather was irrelevant. When there's a pitch inspection the game is called off on the say of an independent referee, not by the club.
Must say the suggestion that teams are now afraid to play Bolton's new team made me chuckle. Since this game was cancelled in early September Bolton have won just twice and there are only 5 more games before Santa comes down the chimney. Not to mention they were knocked out of the FA Cup by a lower division team last week.
-
Quote: "Bolton may also rely on the Welfare issue however the commission must determine whether these Premier League Academy guidelines are relevant to Bolton."
Have to disagree strongly with this reasoning. It was never in Bolton's gift to cancel the game. If Bolton wished to cancel then there is a perfectly clear procedure to follow. Bolton was required to seek permission from the EFL laying out a specific reason supported by appropriate evidence.
Similarly the earlier comment about games postponed due to inclement weather was irrelevant. When there's a pitch inspection the game is called off on the say of an independent referee, not by the club.
Must say the suggestion that teams are now afraid to play Bolton's new team made me chuckle. Since this game was cancelled in early September Bolton have won just twice and there are only 5 more games before Santa comes down the chimney. Not to mention they were knocked out of the FA Cup by a lower division team last week.
I didn't suggest it was Bolton's gift to cancel the game. They will be punished however, I was suggesting the severity of the punishment may depend on whether the commission consider Bolton's claim about the welfare issue to be relevant.
-
Quote: "Bolton may also rely on the Welfare issue however the commission must determine whether these Premier League Academy guidelines are relevant to Bolton."
Have to disagree strongly with this reasoning. It was never in Bolton's gift to cancel the game. If Bolton wished to cancel then there is a perfectly clear procedure to follow. Bolton was required to seek permission from the EFL laying out a specific reason supported by appropriate evidence.
Similarly the earlier comment about games postponed due to inclement weather was irrelevant. When there's a pitch inspection the game is called off on the say of an independent referee, not by the club.
Must say the suggestion that teams are now afraid to play Bolton's new team made me chuckle. Since this game was cancelled in early September Bolton have won just twice and there are only 5 more games before Santa comes down the chimney. Not to mention they were knocked out of the FA Cup by a lower division team last week.
I didn't suggest it was Bolton's gift to cancel the game. They will be punished however, I was suggesting the severity of the punishment may depend on whether the commission consider Bolton's claim about the welfare issue to be relevant.
If it was relevant they'd have said something the instant the fixture list came out. I don't remember a peep out of them until they needed an excuse.
-
Its unfortunate that DRFC keeps getting dragged into the dirt on this issue. DRFC was ready willing and able to fulfill the fixture. Fans bought tickets, arranged travel and time off work. Compensation is due both on and off the field.
Bolton flagrantly broke EFL rules. They fully deserved to be punished for their actions.
If individuals working for Bolton are responsible for the actions taken then the Bolton should take appropriate in-house action against them.
If, as is claimed, 'The admin done It, not us!' Then Bolton must accept the punishment and sue the administrator for compensation.
If the EFL punishment results in relegation then the claim will be greater. Unless of course the action taken was instigated by an employee, say the manager, in which case Bolton have no leg to stand on.
If the admin cancelled the game then Bolton (the club management) should have registered their concern over such actions with the EFL and shown a willingness to play, thus negating punishment against themselves.
It should have been their defence all along, not some puffery about young professionals needing protection and citing rules from a different body (EPL) of which they are not part.
At no point has DRFC failed to fulfill it's obligations. Bolton has played the injured party when DRFC are in effect the victims.
As we are not actually involved in this case except as witnesses, I cannot see where we have any right of appeal whatever punishment the EFL impose.
-
I agree with you however, having spoke to Gavin recently, he says the club is prepared to take this further if they feel the outcome is unjust. Rovers have, quite rightly, kept their cards close to their chest on this issue other than stating that they believe we should get the 3 points. They have not made further comment unlike Bolton and other chairmen and managers who have weighed in with their opinions. However the DFP article confirms the EFL requested we re-arrange the game and we refused, steadfastly sticking to the statement Gavin made at the meet the owners event.
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/18037839.bolton-boss-keith-hill-says-club-wont-victims-efl-verdict/
As said previously, Bolton are still playing the welfare card in their defence.
-
Thankfully we are all about to learn what the punishment will be and why . We will then see officially how lower league clubs are treated and how they they treat injustice .I can see this being a land mark for Rovers this season who are the only club to have been effected . Someone’s going to be upset with the out come as there can not be a middle ground on this .
-
Thankfully we are all about to learn what the punishment will be and why . We will then see officially how lower league clubs are treated and how they they treat injustice .I can see this being a land mark for Rovers this season who are the only club to have been effected . Someone’s going to be upset with the out come as there can not be a middle ground on this .
I hope you're right. Can't help think today will come and go without a statement or decision. Hope I'm wrong.
-
So where’s the statement then.?
I’m not one for jumping to conclusions, but that nothing has been announced so far makes me think that one of the parties is not satisfied with the outcome and has launched an appeal.
I know where my thoughts lie but I’m not on the panel.!
-
Surely, the statement has to be made public first and foremost, then that is quickly followed by an appeal (or two)?
-
Not sure why that would be the case Alan, it’s not the public who would make an appeal, only Bolton or Doncaster.?
-
There are only 2 precedents for this...
(From https://www.footballsite.co.uk/Statistics/Articles/DidYouKnow25.htm)
Back in March 1974 Halifax Town and Exeter City asked the Football League to postpone matches because their respective playing squads had been decimated by injury and illness. In Exeter's case they had medical certificates for 9 unfit players which left them with just 9 fit players, two of them goalkeepers. Halifax were given permission to postpone their Division 3 match at Bournemouth on Saturday March 30th 1974 but Exeter were refused permission to call of their matches against Peterborough the same day and Scunthorpe 3 days later. They played, and lost, their home match against Peterborough but refused to travel to Scunthorpe to fulfil their Division 4 fixture at the Old Showground scheduled for Tuesday April 2nd. There was speculation that Exeter's punishment might be expulsion from the Football League but later in April it was announced that the Devon side had been fined £5000 for not fulfilling the fixture and in addition were ordered to compensate Scunthorpe £1094 for the lost gate receipts and expenses. It was a massive sum for a Division 4 side to pay. Uniquely the two points were awarded to Scunthorpe and the match was not ordered to be played. At the time it was the only fixture in Football League history that was never played, a record that was the last for 45 years,,,,,,,
.....Bolton Wanderers were in a financial mess as the 2018/19 season came to a close. At the end of April 2019 with unpopular Chairman Ken Anderson wanting to sell the club who owed £1.2 million to the taxman Bolton players were threatening a strike as they - and other club staff - hadn't been paid since February. Staff issued a statement saying that the situation was 'creating mental, emotional and financial burdens for people through no fault of their own' and there were stories of a food bank being set up for staff at their home stadium while at their training ground the players couldn't have a hot shower as the club couldn't afford to provide hot water. The players carried out the strike threat and their scheduled home Championship match against Brentford was called off the day before it was due to have been played on Saturday April 27th. The match was rescheduled for Tuesday May 7th which was two days after the official end of the League season. However the Football League didn't accept that. With Bolton already relegated and the re-arranged match being in doubt because safety staff were planning their own boycott of the fixture the match was cancelled. Brentford were awarded the three points with a nominal 1-0 victory and so Bolton Wanderers v Brentford became only the second match not played at the end of a completed Football League season......
The other similar event was in the Premier League, so probably doesn’t set a precedent for the EFL...
Going back to the Scunthorpe v exeter postponement then fast forward to December 1996 and Middlesbrough tried the same stunt as Exeter had done in 1974 to postpone a match (see above), but suffered disastrous consequences. Middlesbrough called off their Premier League game at Blackburn without permission the day before the scheduled date of Saturday 21st December 1996. Manager Bryan Robson claimed that they were unable to field a competitive team as they had 23 players unavailable because of injury, illness or suspension. At the Premier League inquiry in January Blackburn argued that they should have been awarded the points but the match was ordered to be played and Middlesbrough suffered a 3 point deduction and a £50,000 fine. Middlesbrough drew at Blackburn when that match was played but for a club in the relegation area that three point deduction was to see them relegated. Had they had played the match in December - and had not suffered a thumping - they would have stayed up. It proved to be a sad season for Middlesbrough - relegated and beaten finalists in both the FA Cup and League Cup.
Despite these precedents, I expect Bolton to be punished with a points deduction and the game to be ordered to be played.
-
Any appeal would have to come after a decision rendered, so we will publicly hear the outcome before any appeals process I'm sure.
They probably just didn't decide yesterday despite the reports. It's not like they've been in a hurry to sort it up to now.
-
In any disciplinary matter, you inform the respondee directly first before making anything public. Whether they see fit to include ourselves in that process, I would hope so.
-
I only say that, IDM, as that is exactly what was said prior to yesterday’s meeting.
-
There are only 2 precedents for this...
(From https://www.footballsite.co.uk/Statistics/Articles/DidYouKnow25.htm)
Back in March 1974 Halifax Town and Exeter City asked the Football League to postpone matches because their respective playing squads had been decimated by injury and illness. In Exeter's case they had medical certificates for 9 unfit players which left them with just 9 fit players, two of them goalkeepers. Halifax were given permission to postpone their Division 3 match at Bournemouth on Saturday March 30th 1974 but Exeter were refused permission to call of their matches against Peterborough the same day and Scunthorpe 3 days later. They played, and lost, their home match against Peterborough but refused to travel to Scunthorpe to fulfil their Division 4 fixture at the Old Showground scheduled for Tuesday April 2nd. There was speculation that Exeter's punishment might be expulsion from the Football League but later in April it was announced that the Devon side had been fined £5000 for not fulfilling the fixture and in addition were ordered to compensate Scunthorpe £1094 for the lost gate receipts and expenses. It was a massive sum for a Division 4 side to pay. Uniquely the two points were awarded to Scunthorpe and the match was not ordered to be played. At the time it was the only fixture in Football League history that was never played, a record that was the last for 45 years,,,,,,,
.....Bolton Wanderers were in a financial mess as the 2018/19 season came to a close. At the end of April 2019 with unpopular Chairman Ken Anderson wanting to sell the club who owed £1.2 million to the taxman Bolton players were threatening a strike as they - and other club staff - hadn't been paid since February. Staff issued a statement saying that the situation was 'creating mental, emotional and financial burdens for people through no fault of their own' and there were stories of a food bank being set up for staff at their home stadium while at their training ground the players couldn't have a hot shower as the club couldn't afford to provide hot water. The players carried out the strike threat and their scheduled home Championship match against Brentford was called off the day before it was due to have been played on Saturday April 27th. The match was rescheduled for Tuesday May 7th which was two days after the official end of the League season. However the Football League didn't accept that. With Bolton already relegated and the re-arranged match being in doubt because safety staff were planning their own boycott of the fixture the match was cancelled. Brentford were awarded the three points with a nominal 1-0 victory and so Bolton Wanderers v Brentford became only the second match not played at the end of a completed Football League season......
The other similar event was in the Premier League, so probably doesn’t set a precedent for the EFL...
Going back to the Scunthorpe v exeter postponement then fast forward to December 1996 and Middlesbrough tried the same stunt as Exeter had done in 1974 to postpone a match (see above), but suffered disastrous consequences. Middlesbrough called off their Premier League game at Blackburn without permission the day before the scheduled date of Saturday 21st December 1996. Manager Bryan Robson claimed that they were unable to field a competitive team as they had 23 players unavailable because of injury, illness or suspension. At the Premier League inquiry in January Blackburn argued that they should have been awarded the points but the match was ordered to be played and Middlesbrough suffered a 3 point deduction and a £50,000 fine. Middlesbrough drew at Blackburn when that match was played but for a club in the relegation area that three point deduction was to see them relegated. Had they had played the match in December - and had not suffered a thumping - they would have stayed up. It proved to be a sad season for Middlesbrough - relegated and beaten finalists in both the FA Cup and League Cup.
Despite these precedents, I expect Bolton to be punished with a points deduction and the game to be ordered to be played.
But they are quoting PL guidelines regarding young players, they can’t have it both ways
-
I don't think there will be an appeal or be listened to by the EFL
-
Quite strange that if we were to be awarded 3 points and a win by a single goal, we would move from 12th to 5th in the league.....
-
We'll probably read about the verdict on Bolton's web site first - just like the cancellation!
-
........with a game in hand!
-
We'll probably read about the verdict on Bolton's web site first - just like the cancellation!
Can't rely on them to let us know.................. at least not within 36 hours.
-
Serving the judgement is a formal process, detailing the rules that have been broken and the specific sanctions. It may also include clauses about confidentiality and the formal appeal process. I would imagine that only when Bolton confirm they have received the judgement, the EFL will be in a position to release a statement.
-
Liam Hoden
I'm reliably informed there will be no update until after the weekend in regards to the Bolton game
-
Which adds to the thought that there are potential complications..
-
What a surprise, it's like waiting for Christmas ffs
-
Although it really makes no difference if there a few more days delay.
It’s not as if we could have played Bolton tomorrow, and if they give us the points that an happen any time..
-
EFL may also have their hands full with the developing situation at Macclesfield with players refusing to play tomorrows game unless they're paid by 6pm tonight.
Also Sheff Wednesday subject to disciplinary for breach of FFP rules and now it appears Birmingham maybe facing the same fate.
-
I think that 1 of the main points about Macclesfield not playing apart from not being paid is that there is no insurance cover if the players are injured. So I've been told.
-
What a surprise, it's like waiting for Christmas ffs
More like waiting for Brexit!!
-
What a surprise, it's like waiting for Christmas ffs
More like waiting for Brexit!!
Nothing could take that long!
-
I don’t know Bolton had a premier league academy. How odd. Phhhhrrrrrttt
-
I think that 1 of the main points about Macclesfield not playing apart from not being paid is that there is no insurance cover if the players are injured. So I've been told.
Raven: Apparently, insurance cover has now been paid, and players have been training since Tuesday. See this BBC link:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50423155. Scroll down to penultimate paragraph.
-
Marc Iles
I understand the EFL verdict might stretch as far as Wednesday, now.
Not like we've been waiting ages or anything... #bwfc
-
Marc Iles
I understand the EFL verdict might stretch as far as Wednesday, now.
Not like we've been waiting ages or anything... #bwfc
Let's hope that's a sign that things maybe going in our favour.
-
Marc Iles
I understand the EFL verdict might stretch as far as Wednesday, now.
Not like we've been waiting ages or anything... #bwfc
Let's hope that's a sign that things maybe going in our favour.
I hope so too but I’m not sure why you would say that DBR.
-
Peterborough United chairman Darragh MacAnthony believes the Football League could have opened themselves up to possible legal action by League One clubs.
MacAnthony has backed his manager Darren Ferguson in questioning why some clubs benefitted from playing against Bolton’s youth team earlier in the season while that club’s future was in doubt.
Top two Ipswich and Wycombe both beat Bolton in August, but the Trotters are now free of financial trouble and fielding stronger sides.
MacAnthony said: “If Wycombe or Ipswich win promotion by a point over teams who didn’t play against Bolton’s youth team it will be wrong.
“The EFL have potentially opened themselves up to lawsuits.
“The Bolton team is now stronger, they will be well coached by a top manager and they will be backed by a brilliant fanbase. The league didn’t handle the situation well.”
Bolton are bottom of League One on -2 points and could yet face a further points deduction after also calling a game off early in the season
-
People keep saying about appealing the decision when there has been nothing dished out yet, but I am not sure there will be any appeal and the EFL are a law to them selves and probably won't even listen to our club. We have probably done all we can and gone as far as we can
-
People keep saying about appealing the decision when there has been nothing dished out yet, but I am not sure there will be any appeal and the EFL are a law to them selves and probably won't even listen to our club. We have probably done all we can and gone as far as we can
Unfortunately, I'm inclined to agree.
-
People keep saying about appealing the decision when there has been nothing dished out yet, but I am not sure there will be any appeal and the EFL are a law to them selves and probably won't even listen to our club. We have probably done all we can and gone as far as we can
Does that mean you know something?
-
People keep saying about appealing the decision when there has been nothing dished out yet, but I am not sure there will be any appeal and the EFL are a law to them selves and probably won't even listen to our club. We have probably done all we can and gone as far as we can
This is not the EFLs decision. The Disciplinary Commission will serve their judgement on Bolton. In that judgement they will specify the rules that have been broken and the sanctions for each breach (assuming there is more than one breach}. It will order either a points deduction, a fine, or both and, possibly an order to pay compensation to us and possibly a forfeit of the game. The judgement served in writing will include the right to appeal and detail the process should Bolton wish to appeal.
The responsibility to apply the sanctions is then handed to the EFL, who deduct the points and collect any fines etc.
If Bolton opt to appeal, they must do it in writing and be specific about the grounds of their appeal and pay the fee. Any appeal will be heard by an Independant tribunal, not the EFL.
The rules don't make it clear how a 3rd party like us, could also appeal.
This is not something that can be swept under the carpet on a whim. The FA and EFL know this will be up for public scrutiny and could be subject to much criticism if they don't get it right. I suspect that's why they are taking their time over delivering the judgement.
-
Marc Iles, the Bolton News football correspondent, tweeted last night that the verdict may not be made public until Wednesday. At this rate, Brexit will be sorted out sooner!
-
In other news come on MK Dons.... Can't believe I said that
-
The most ridiculous thing about this whole farce is that it really is a straightforward, cut and dried case.
Bolton chose not to fulfill a fixture.
They decided to do so unilaterally and didn’t bother to inform the league or Rovers.
They are hiding behind some bullsh*t Premier Academy rules which don’t even apply to them.
There are no vagaries here. Forfeit the game and award us the 3 points and at least a three goal margin of victory.
Beyond that I don’t give a sh1t what other punishment is meted our to them.
-
Can we keep this on topic please.?
-
In other news come on MK Dons.... Can't believe I said that
MK Dons have a player sent off still nil nil come on MK
-
Bolton have a penalty for an mk hand ball but it's saved
Not seen any of these but it's almost as if they are helping them get back to positive points asap
-
90+3 mins Bolton score ffs soon be safev if they keep it up
-
I don’t really care where they get to, as long as we get justice..
-
90+3 mins Bolton score ffs soon be safev if they keep it up
MK Dons player should have cleared it , he was pushed off the ball far to easily out on the wing.
-
Same here but they keep picking up points and could be safe from the drop something I personally don't want
-
it could be argued in a way winning weakens their case
.... but the Guinness book of records welcomes them as the first team in history to start a season on a "cool" minus points total go positive then back negative (next week for certain) again :thumbsup:
Barometric Bolton me thinks up and down .... the question is "weather" Rovers will get the 3 points
-
Another one sided view from a BWFC fan.
https://bolton.vitalfootball.co.uk/integrity-you-dont-care-about-integrity/ (https://bolton.vitalfootball.co.uk/integrity-you-dont-care-about-integrity/)
-
Another one sided view from a BWFC fan.
https://bolton.vitalfootball.co.uk/integrity-you-dont-care-about-integrity/ (https://bolton.vitalfootball.co.uk/integrity-you-dont-care-about-integrity/)
To be fair he’s got a point regarding signing players before the deadline, not much mention of our situation to be honest
-
Another one sided view from a BWFC fan.
https://bolton.vitalfootball.co.uk/integrity-you-dont-care-about-integrity/ (https://bolton.vitalfootball.co.uk/integrity-you-dont-care-about-integrity/)
I didn't make it past the first sentence.
If you're going to be a bell end, you could at least leaven it with wit or insight or sharp argument.
Otherwise, you're just a bell end. And a boring one at that.
-
Another one sided view from a BWFC fan.
https://bolton.vitalfootball.co.uk/integrity-you-dont-care-about-integrity/ (https://bolton.vitalfootball.co.uk/integrity-you-dont-care-about-integrity/)
To be fair he’s got a point regarding signing players before the deadline, not much mention of our situation to be honest
Like i said then, one sided.