Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Herbert Anchovy on November 24, 2019, 10:10:34 pm
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The Tory manifesto makes a number of interesting pledges:
20,000 new police offices (to make up the numbers from the ones they cut)
£250 million per year to fund child care
£6.3 billion to fund home improvements
£500 million per year to fill potholes
£600 million per year to fund a national skills fund
£28.8 billion on road improvements
And not forgetting of course the £350 million per week that the NHS will be receiving once we leave the EU (!)
And all this is to be achieved without any increases in income tax, VAT or national insurance.
So, where’s the money coming from to pay for all of these?
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Some of those numbers are insulting.
The "Skills Fund" amounts to £1 per week for every worker in the country.
The Child Care fund amounts to £1 per week for every schoolkid.
These are not serious policies. They are barely significant enough to be called "fluff".
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What we have is 2 parties and none of them can produce what they say
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The Tories are probably basing it on us working a five day week, bas**rds.
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You mean like their forefathers based their concept of society on people working 70 hour weeks? An kids working? And no state funded schools or health service? Or health and safety standards? Or decent houses? Or countryside accessible to all for leisure?
Name me a single major improvement in the quality of life of working folk that has EVER come from the Right.
Then stop and have a think how many folk like you 150 years ago assumed it was inevitable that kids would always have to work down the pit.
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What we have is 2 parties and none of them can produce what they say
boring
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What we have is 2 parties and none of them can produce what they say
boring
sydney why is it boring so far we have had promises from both sides that the ifs say none of them can keep, why can’t you accept that or are they lying 2? You keep living in your little bubble not interacting with anyone bar your online papers
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What we have is 2 parties and none of them can produce what they say
boring
sydney why is it boring so far we have had promises from both sides that the ifs say none of them can keep, why can’t you accept that or are they lying 2? You keep living in your little bubble not interacting with anyone bar your online papers
Your political posts are boring, they don't prove or disprove very much at all.
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Labour have explained how they attempt to pay for everything; hence a "fully costed" manifesto. Not really a hard concept.
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Tory campaign bus
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2019/nov/24/nicola-jennings-on-boris-johnson-launching-the-tory-manifesto-cartoon
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You mean like their forefathers based their concept of society on people working 70 hour weeks? An kids working? And no state funded schools or health service? Or health and safety standards? Or decent houses? Or countryside accessible to all for leisure?
Name me a single major improvement in the quality of life of working folk that has EVER come from the Right.
Then stop and have a think how many folk like you 150 years ago assumed it was inevitable that kids would always have to work down the pit.
BST = NOBODY INSULTS THE GREAT CORBYN
ONLY ME!
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The green-eyed god getting at you again bb
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You mean like their forefathers based their concept of society on people working 70 hour weeks? An kids working? And no state funded schools or health service? Or health and safety standards? Or decent houses? Or countryside accessible to all for leisure?
Name me a single major improvement in the quality of life of working folk that has EVER come from the Right.
Then stop and have a think how many folk like you 150 years ago assumed it was inevitable that kids would always have to work down the pit.
No, I mean at such a time like now when at worst we are 'destined for poverty' with no food on the shelves, and at best us being as less poorer as possible by our EU exit, and Corbyn Monoxide is promising a four day week!
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That's a much better answer bb
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You mean like their forefathers based their concept of society on people working 70 hour weeks? An kids working? And no state funded schools or health service? Or health and safety standards? Or decent houses? Or countryside accessible to all for leisure?
Name me a single major improvement in the quality of life of working folk that has EVER come from the Right.
Then stop and have a think how many folk like you 150 years ago assumed it was inevitable that kids would always have to work down the pit.
No, I mean at such a time like now when at worst we are 'destined for poverty' with no food on the shelves, and at best us being as less poorer as possible by our EU exit, and Corbyn Monoxide is promising a four day week!
You're next question should be asking is why the f#ck is the economy in such a parlous position when we've have the best people educated at the best schools at the helm for 9 years and they don't understand how economics work?
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and the ask the question - how can any person who has to work for a living , doesn't have an offshore non-tax paying account and relies on the NHS for healthcare even consider voting for them
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You mean like their forefathers based their concept of society on people working 70 hour weeks? An kids working? And no state funded schools or health service? Or health and safety standards? Or decent houses? Or countryside accessible to all for leisure?
Name me a single major improvement in the quality of life of working folk that has EVER come from the Right.
Then stop and have a think how many folk like you 150 years ago assumed it was inevitable that kids would always have to work down the pit.
BST = NOBODY INSULTS THE GREAT CORBYN
ONLY ME!
I see you're in "I've nothing of any useful substance to add to the discussion,so I'll throw out a couple of pathetic insults and see if I can start a row" mode again BB.
I assume that means you haven't found any examples of the Right fighting hard for improvements in the quality of ordinary workers' lives?
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Labour have explained how they attempt to pay for everything; hence a "fully costed" manifesto. Not really a hard concept.
Ah but, have also costed in the extra announcement, the WASPI payback.
I didn’t see how they would finance that.
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You mean like their forefathers based their concept of society on people working 70 hour weeks? An kids working? And no state funded schools or health service? Or health and safety standards? Or decent houses? Or countryside accessible to all for leisure?
Name me a single major improvement in the quality of life of working folk that has EVER come from the Right.
Then stop and have a think how many folk like you 150 years ago assumed it was inevitable that kids would always have to work down the pit.
BST = NOBODY INSULTS THE GREAT CORBYN
ONLY ME!
I see you're in "I've nothing of any useful substance to add to the discussion,so I'll throw out a couple of pathetic insults and see if I can start a row" mode again BB.
I assume that means you haven't found any examples of the Right fighting hard for improvements in the quality of ordinary workers' lives?
You can assume whatever you want but I meant exactly what I said.
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But it's pathetic isn't it BB?
You contribute nothing of substance to any discussion. You just throw in smart arse wisecracks with varying degrees of bile.
Then you get arsey when people don't give you respect.
This is a perfect case in point.
You joined the discussion to make a wisecrack about Labour's aspiration to move to a four day week.
No content to your input. Just a wisecrack.
Now, as it happens, in a sane political environment, that policy discussion ought to be the most important of the election. We're on the verge of an AI and automation revolution which is going to quickly and radically change everything about the world of work. We ought to be thinking hard about the effect this is going to have in society. Which is the context in which I pointed out that no great societal move to make life better for the working class has EVER come from The Right in the UK.
Your response to that was another smart arse insult.
If you don't want to engage in discussion then fine. Many people don't. But if that's the case, why the f**k do you have to wade into every discussion with content-free, attention-seeking quips?
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But if you want to engage in intelligent grown-up conversation why should it be only you who can insult Corbyn?
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I don't insult Corbyn. I take issues with specific policies.
Just like anyone can.
You are free to discuss with me the things I take issue with him on if you don't agree.
I'm free to discuss with other people the things they take issue with him on, if I don't agree with them.
That's kind of how grown up discussions work.
It's telling that you see people taking issues with policies and call it an "insult". That's why I suggested last week that you might be in need of a break to get your sense of perspective back.
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I just did take issue with Corbyn regarding his four-day working week proposal despite the uncertainty of our EU situation. That, to me, is a grown-up question that deserved a grown-up answer. Instead, you responded by babbling on about our forefathers.
That's not grown-up discussion. It is not answering the question. it is diverting from the subject.
How can I or anybody who you disagree with support their points by posting links in support of them when you simply discard them as not being credible?
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I just did take issue with Corbyn regarding his four-day working week proposal despite the uncertainty of our EU situation. That, to me, is a grown-up question that deserved a grown-up answer. Instead, you responded by babbling on about our forefathers.
That's not grown-up discussion. It is not answering the question. it is diverting from the subject.
How can I or anybody who you disagree with support their points by posting links in support of them when you simply discard them as not being credible?
Surely, if you can believe the Tories, which is a particularly moot point, there will be no economic uncertainty. Once we unleash the potential after Brexit we can all rest easy. Put our feet up and watch the money rush in.
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But you didn't take issue with it BB.
That would you engaging with the issue and discussing the pros and cons.
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Susanna Reid completely destroys Nicky Morgan's 50,000 more nurses claim.
Imagine having a policy so shit that even Piers Morgan can rip it to shreds, and a minister so thick she'll actually sit there on live TV arguing that 3+0 = 6!
What’s really disturbing about Nicky Morgan’s performance on GMB is when challenged by piers morgan & susanna reid she continues to dodge the truth.
What’s even more disturbing is that millions of voters will vote for this party of truth dodgers.
#ToryLies #ToryStory #BorisJohnson
#dontbuythesun
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Boris Johnson
@BorisJohnson_MP
We chose Nicky Morgan to go out and defend our manifesto because she was the only one who passed our stringent requirements.
The main requirement being to believe that 50,000 less 20,000 is still 50,000.
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But you didn't take issue with it BB.
That would you engaging with the issue and discussing the pros and cons.
There are no pros to discussing the ridiculous promise of a four-day working week in this present climate, only cons. And that is exactly what the proposal is - A con.
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BB
Hang on! Hang on! I'm getting echoes down the ages.
"Stop children working!?! Reduce the weekly working time from 70 hours?!? Introduce a...a WHAT? A national health service, free at the point of use?!? Pensions? PENSIONS, for the common man?!? Minimum wage? But everyone KNOWS the economy will collapse of we introduce communist nonsense like this!"
There's always voices on the Right who tell us that we can't take radical steps to improve the lot of the working classes. Bizarrely, they've always managed to convince useful idiots in the working classes to support them.
Go on then. Tell us what your approach would be the the impending AI and automation revolution. The one that's going to decimate the jobs market for millions of working class (and middle class) folk over the next generation.
Because if we do nowt, the proceeds of that are going into the pockets of the big companies, and you're going to see a lot more poverty and hopelessness.
If you want to avoid that, there are some radical solutions needed. Ones that need to be discussed now.
Or you can stay in your shell and chuck out lame insults if you prefer.
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There's a time and place for everything, Billy boy, and now's not the time for promising a four-day working week, and you well know it!
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When have Labour promised it for?
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"Four-day week: trial finds lower stress and increased productivity
Study of pilot at New Zealand firm finds staff were happier and 20% more productive''
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/feb/19/four-day-week-trial-study-finds-lower-stress-but-no-cut-in-output
Ah wurked darn pit on me ands an knees up to me nek in watter, these buggers don't want to wurk
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"Rees-Mogg no-show for Tory manifesto launch fuels sidelining claims
Leader of the House absent from Telford after damaging comments and mistakes
The absence of Jacob Rees-Mogg at the Conservatives’ manifesto launch has fuelled speculation that he is under orders from Number 10 to keep a low profile following a series of damaging comments''
Saving him eh??
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/24/rees-mogg-no-show-for-manifesto-launch-fuels-theory
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Thing is BB. You are doing PRECISELY what opponents of those other advanced did. According to them, it never was the right time for a minimum wage. Or an NHS. Or pensions. Or banning kids working down the pit.
That's what "conservative" means! Keeping the status quo. Not making radical change.
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If you go back far enough, there were conservative cavemen grunting, "Fire? Oooh...don't know about that. You might burn the cave down. And animal skin clothes? What's wrong with body hair and being a bit chilly?"
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No BST, I'm talking sense, you're talking b*llocks.
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Johnson sowing seeds of 'biggest Brexit crisis yet', warns Sir Ivan Rogers
Ex-EU ambassador says PM’s ‘strategy errors’ will make good trade deal harder to achieve
Johnson is sowing the seeds of “the biggest crisis of Brexit to date”, Britain’s former envoy to the EU Sir Ivan Rogers has said in a scathing verdict on the government’s “diplomatic amateurism”.
Less than three weeks before polling day, the man who resigned as the UK’s EU ambassador in January 2017 said Johnson was repeating Theresa May’s “strategy errors” and would soon find himself “unwisely” boxed in by his campaign promises.
When he launched the Conservative party manifesto on Sunday, Johnson repeated his promise not to extend an 11-month transition period that kicks in if the UK leaves the EU with the withdrawal agreement on 31 January 2020. Negotiating a trade deal with the EU in an unprecedentedly quick time is the centrepiece of the prime minister’s misleading pledge to “get Brexit done”.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/25/johnson-sowing-seeds-of-biggest-brexit-crisis-yet-warns-sir-ivan-rogers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Rogers
I thought a trade deal with the cavalry was going to save the UK :)
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If you care to read what Ivan Rogers says above it makes a lot of sense in that the tory strategy doesn't.
If you were going to buy a car you wouldn't tell the salesman that you'd just sold your only car a rusty broken down old Bentley for scrap and expect the best deal? :)
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There's a time and place for everything, Billy boy, and now's not the time for promising a four-day working week, and you well know it!
You know the plan is within a decade? So no, it isn't the time for that.
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Making a long-range promise is even more conjecture than promising to carry out an immediate one. A week is a long time in politics time, never mind ten years!
If Corbyn wins the General election it will be a surprise to everyone, including him. If he does win and then wins the next one resulting in him still being PM in 10 years it'll be a miracle.
How easy is it to promise a miracle knowing you won't be there to fulfil it!
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If you consider yourself a conservative.
If you hold conservative values.
If you’re thinking of voting Conservative...
Please listen to the Conservatives you’ve always respected... like Heseltine & Grieve & Major.
Then don’t vote Conservative.
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Making a long-range promise is even more conjecture than promising to carry out an immediate one. A week is a long time in politics time, never mind ten years!
If Corbyn wins the General election it will be a surprise to everyone, including him. If he does win and then wins the next one resulting in him still being PM in 10 years it'll be a miracle.
How easy is it to promise a miracle knowing you won't be there to fulfil it!
You can hardly campaign on a ticket of "I've got hardly any chance of winning a second term, let alone a first, so here's a load of short-term policy thinking" can he? I'm sure if he would, he'd be attacked just the same.
As someone who hasn't got any skin in the game of the VSC left/right, BST/BB debate, I don't think this thread makes pretty reading for you at all BB.
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Just because people think this is a two-horse race between Tory and Labour they assume I'm a Tory voter because of my opinion of Labour. If it was just a two-horse race between those, I would definitely vote Tory - but it's not!