Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Sprotyrover on January 03, 2020, 06:06:01 pm
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:bscarf:m General Suliemani got caught in Iraq without a Tourist visa :woohoo: :bbscarf:
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Hilarious. f**king hilarious. Doubtless you'll be laughing maniacally when innocent people die in the tit for tat that's going to go on from this.
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Suleimani wasn't in Baghdad on a sightseeing tour, thank god Corbyn isn't PM!
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Suleimani wasn't in Baghdad on a sightseeing tour, thank god Corbyn isn't PM!
Why would Trump have had to ask Corbyn's permission? Unlike Johnson who he never bothered to inform and had to find out from the tv.
Wonder what he thinks now as there is a British woman stuck in an Iranian jail due to his actions? What's going to happen to her? Not that you seem to care ...
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What the flying f**k has Corbyn got to do with it? The UK Govt has already announced that it wasn't consulted or informed before this action. An action which significantly raised the threat to British forces.
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Suleimani wasn't in Baghdad on a sightseeing tour, thank god Corbyn isn't PM!
But Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe is in Iran.
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Plus.
How many dogs do you know who have been blown up by an AGM sanctioned by a lifetime criminal just entering election year in the certain knowledge that if he loses, he's finishing his days behind bars and so is trying to whip up jingoistic support among the more gullible?
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Googles - can Trump cancel elections if US is at war?
https://www.quora.com/Could-Donald-Trump-cancel-the-2020-election
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Bad move. Iran have done good work fighting IS, unlike our 'friends' in Saudi and EU wannabees Turkey who back IS.
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The timing of the assassination was questioned last night as it has over shadowed the Democrats and their Impeachment agenda.
Read what you like into my Corbyn comment he is a nobody the sooner he gets lost in his Cabbage patch the better.
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The timing of the assassination was questioned last night as it has over shadowed the Democrats and their Impeachment agenda.
Read what you like into my Corbyn comment he is a nobody the sooner he gets lost in his Cabbage patch the better.
Why? Boris did f**k all about him as well, and he IS PM.
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The timing of the assassination was questioned last night as it has over shadowed the Democrats and their Impeachment agenda.
Reminds me of the sinking of the Belgrano for those of a certain age
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And here's the real reason for that strike.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1213585005986959361
Trump's plan is to try to deflect attention from his impeachment by firing up jingoists who revel in seeing America spill foreign blood (like the British examples in here).
He's doing that by threatening to commit war crimes.
Go back and read that again.
Last night, the Leader of the Free World openly and publicly boasted that he's planning to commit war crimes.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2020/01/trump-tweets-threat-to-commit-war-crimes-in-iran.html?__twitter_impression=true
Do you care? Or is it just about winning?
PS.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-01-03/how-trump-made-the-decision-to-kill-suleimani?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true
Just...f**king...crazy...
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And here's the real reason for that strike.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1213585005986959361
Trump's plan is to try to deflect attention from his impeachment by firing up jingoists who revel in seeing America spill foreign blood (like the British examples in here).
He's doing that by threatening to commit war crimes.
Go back and read that again.
Last night, the Leader of the Free World openly and publicly boasted that he's planning to commit war crimes.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2020/01/trump-tweets-threat-to-commit-war-crimes-in-iran.html?__twitter_impression=true
Do you care? Or is it just about winning?
PS.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-01-03/how-trump-made-the-decision-to-kill-suleimani?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true
Just...f**king...crazy...
Seems it was part of an ongoing US operation against Iranian military influence in Syria and Iraq it was preceded by 5 US air strikes on Military sites operated by Iranian fighters in Syria and Iraq on Monday. Pentagon advisers presented a list of Targets to Rrump which included Sulemani as it seems they have done on many occasions in the past and they were surprisingly given the go ahead.
I very much doubt the US Military has selected targets which are of cultural or religious significance, I think you might see Sites linked to their Nuclear programme becoming big piles of Ash,that's the next step, take away their ability for serious retaliation.I'm of the opinion that they the US have taken this step to ensure Iran never becomes a nuclear power.
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And here's the real reason for that strike.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1213585005986959361
Trump's plan is to try to deflect attention from his impeachment by firing up jingoists who revel in seeing America spill foreign blood (like the British examples in here).
He's doing that by threatening to commit war crimes.
Go back and read that again.
Last night, the Leader of the Free World openly and publicly boasted that he's planning to commit war crimes.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2020/01/trump-tweets-threat-to-commit-war-crimes-in-iran.html?__twitter_impression=true
Do you care? Or is it just about winning?
PS.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-01-03/how-trump-made-the-decision-to-kill-suleimani?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true
Just...f**king...crazy...
Seems it was part of an ongoing US operation against Iranian military influence in Syria and Iraq it was preceded by 5 US air strikes on Military sites operated by Iranian fighters in Syria and Iraq on Monday. Pentagon advisers presented a list of Targets to Rrump which included Sulemani as it seems they have done on many occasions in the past and they were surprisingly given the go ahead.
I very much doubt the US Military has selected targets which are of cultural or religious significance, I think you might see Sites linked to their Nuclear programme becoming big piles of Ash,that's the next step, take away their ability for serious retaliation.I'm of the opinion that they the US have taken this step to ensure Iran never becomes a nuclear power.
In recent times it appears the US is the rouge state, there are not many states backing them lately
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Who are the jaune or vert states please?
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I dont know but we are in a white state !
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Sproty.
I'm sure the Pentagon hasn't chosen sites of cultural importance to bomb. That's because they know what the Hague Treaty says on the topic.
The point is that the Leader of the Free World unambiguously said that that was what they were doing.
You appear not to see the problem with that.
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Sproty.
I'm sure the Pentagon hasn't chosen sites of cultural importance to bomb. That's because they know what the Hague Treaty says on the topic.
The point is that the Leader of the Free World unambiguously said that that was what they were doing.
You appear not to see the problem with that.
Well when he comes out with remarks like "He Died like a Dog" I find his latest stuff a bit muted for him!
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And here's the real reason for that strike.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1213585005986959361
Trump's plan is to try to deflect attention from his impeachment by firing up jingoists who revel in seeing America spill foreign blood (like the British examples in here).
He's doing that by threatening to commit war crimes.
Go back and read that again.
Last night, the Leader of the Free World openly and publicly boasted that he's planning to commit war crimes.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2020/01/trump-tweets-threat-to-commit-war-crimes-in-iran.html?__twitter_impression=true
Do you care? Or is it just about winning?
PS.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-01-03/how-trump-made-the-decision-to-kill-suleimani?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true
Just...f**king...crazy...
Seems it was part of an ongoing US operation against Iranian military influence in Syria and Iraq it was preceded by 5 US air strikes on Military sites operated by Iranian fighters in Syria and Iraq on Monday. Pentagon advisers presented a list of Targets to Rrump which included Sulemani as it seems they have done on many occasions in the past and they were surprisingly given the go ahead.
I very much doubt the US Military has selected targets which are of cultural or religious significance, I think you might see Sites linked to their Nuclear programme becoming big piles of Ash,that's the next step, take away their ability for serious retaliation.I'm of the opinion that they the US have taken this step to ensure Iran never becomes a nuclear power.
Which rather than reducing Iranian influence in Iraq appears to have had the opposite effect of reducing American influence thus strengthening Iran.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iran-news-live-trump-war-soleimani-death-bombing-attack-tensions-a9270856.html
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You know that theory that evil people project their evil thoughts into predictions of the behaviour of others?
Look at this f**king gem. From 2011.
https://mobile.twitter.com/aenbaoui/status/1213074097112002565
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You may remember the future Mrs Wilts Rover is American and is a bit more clued up on these things than I am.
She reminded me yesterday that there is a good percentage of Trumps main supporter base who actuall do want a war in the middle east - which will hopefully then lead to armageddon and the end of the world - so as to bring about the second coming of christ.
Yes really. These are the people the most powerful man in the world listens to:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42402350
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/11/trump-administration-evangelical-influence-support
https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-consent/?destination=%2fopinions%2f2019%2f08%2f14%2fevangelicals-view-trump-their-protector-will-they-stand-by-him%2f%3f
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The massive delay (in politial terms) for Raab to say 'we're on the same page' speaks volumes and suggests that they wern't in the same library and had to find a way of saying something without pissing off a trading partner in waiting. It's going to be fun being reliant on the US for trade. :)
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Y'know what I find confusing about American foreign policv? Under Obama as well this chump. everyone always said, and still do from time to time, that terrorists would not change the way we live. So how come an awful lot of the less thoughtful amongst us, politicians included, now applaud example after example of premeditated, acknowledged, murder by western 'democratic' states?
Some folk have lost their sense of reallty. And yes. The General Belgrano was another example of exactly the same. As was the Rainbow Warrior. It's not just the Yanks...
BobG
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https://mobile.twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1213978867683209216
Here's an interesting one.
Nuremberg established the principle that "obeying orders" was not a defence against committing war crimes.
If Trump orders the US Forces to bomb Persepolis or Ishfahan, the service personnel have a right and in fact a duty to refuse to carry out that order.
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But of course, evil coward that he is, Trump doesn't mean this. He just wants the idiots who support him to think he means it. And that is perhaps even scarier.
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Overall, I think this is a disaster. If republicans actually listened to Trump’s rhetoric and opened their eyes to the lasting damage he has caused with this assassination, they should just remove him from office immediately. He is unpredictable, unprincipled, refuses to look at the big picture and in his rush to distract from his impeachment trial has done something we all knew would happen. Maybe it was not this scenario specifically, but something big and damaging. Perhaps if we remove him from office now it would calm the situation. But I wonder if republicans would even do it for world peace.
This morning I see troops leaving the US and probably wondering if or when they will come back because Trump says he doesn’t need an exit strategy.
This is a disgrace and abomination. I don’t believe for a minute this was done for the ‘greater good’.
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The timing of the assassination was questioned last night as it has over shadowed the Democrats and their Impeachment agenda.
Reminds me of the sinking of the Belgrano for those of a certain age
Don't agree with that for one second Wolf..Argentina was the aggressor in that situation and Belgrano was a threat to our forces..She was rightly sunk and that resulted in the Argentine Navy never leaving Port for the duration..No doubt Saving British lives...
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I'm going to be honest and say I struggle to have an actual opinion on this.There is no doubt that he was a tyrant responsible for ordering attacks that led to the deaths of many people including allied servicemen..And that's before the torture,abductions etc etc..People are quick to jump on the Trump hating,quickly presuming that his own ends was why he ordered this attack..Yet nobody knows what intelligence they had or what he was planning...Some of you are just happy to presume as long as it supports your own point of view..
That said sometimes decisions have to be made on what's best for the balance of world peace and was this the right thing to do??? I couldn't say..
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Anyone holding BP shares this morning will be happy anyway. And does anyone really think that it was Trump and Trump only that made this decision.
It sends out a message that it doesn't matter who you are now, or where you are, the US can take you out.
I think that was the main thrust of this subject, a little just watch it, or else.
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I'm going to be honest and say I struggle to have an actual opinion on this.There is no doubt that he was a tyrant responsible for ordering attacks that led to the deaths of many people including allied servicemen..And that's before the torture,abductions etc etc..People are quick to jump on the Trump hating,quickly presuming that his own ends was why he ordered this attack..Yet nobody knows what intelligence they had or what he was planning...Some of you are just happy to presume as long as it supports your own point of view..
That said sometimes decisions have to be made on what's best for the balance of world peace and was this the right thing to do??? I couldn't say..
American and British forces shouldn't have been there in first place.
No wonder the middle Eastern countries and people hate westerners with our phoney foreign policy.
Wars are good for business though.
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The timing of the assassination was questioned last night as it has over shadowed the Democrats and their Impeachment agenda.
Reminds me of the sinking of the Belgrano for those of a certain age
Don't agree with that for one second Wolf..Argentina was the aggressor in that situation and Belgrano was a threat to our forces..She was rightly sunk and that resulted in the Argentine Navy never leaving Port for the duration..No doubt Saving British lives...
I have no doubt the Argentines were the aggressors AND of course they went in (ironically) to deflect mounting unrest at home
The rest I have not studied but I always understood that there was a deal brokered by US and Peru which was about to bring the conflict to a conclusion
Mrs Thatcher again for political ends did not want "just" an end to hostilities and so ordered the sinking of The Belgrano which was not in the exclusion zone and not steaming towards our Ships
Indeed in a programme (similar to Have I got news for you) someone did a spoof piece showing that Thatcher had been right all along as they said it was headed on this course - and our projection shows that had it travelled all this way (and pushed it all around the Globe) it was indeed heading right for our boys
I also dont know if the Conqueror the Sub which sunk it ever did disclose its log book - it seems fo far away
So my statement was really based on 2 coincidental things in that I think Trump did take the opportunity to kill this General to deflect "domestic" troubles and that Mrs Thatcher did similar to The Belgrano for her own ends
Must have a look to see about the Log Books on Google
EDIT best I can do - it seems the Log Books which may or may not have proved "factual" accuracies were never found
THis is from Hansard but will be coloured by ones political tendencies I suppose
https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1984/nov/07/hms-conqueror-log-book
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If there were n’t any oil reserves there they would be allowed to kill each other to their hearts content. Because there is Western Countries feel the need to help them out killing each other
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.... and can often forget that they are siding with Country A against Country B when only a decade ago (or less) they were doing something contradictory to that position
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A few comments on that Donnywolf.There was a deal brokered by the Americans and Chile but it had not been agreed by Argentina or Britain when the Belgrano was Sunk.Britain accepted the deal on May 5th after her sinking but it was then rejected by Argentina.
Chile had intercepted messages sent to the Belgrano days before she was Sunk instructing her to work with the other Argentine Naval forces at Sea with the aim of sinking one of the British carriers at sea as they knew the loss of any of the two carriers would have made the war unwinnable..
Whilst she was not sailing towards the inclusion zone at the time,she had moved significantly closer over the preceeding 48hrs and positioned herself in a position to enact a pincer movement with the Argentine fleet at Sea to attack the task force..
Conquerer sank her in deep water and if the Belgrano would have changed course again towards the British fleet the water would shallow off making her detection much easier..Naval log books come under the official secrets act and are never released publically whether in war or peacetime..
Once sunk the Argentine Navy still at sea was instructed to return to Port at once and never came back out.The only exception to this was the santa fe,a Argentine submarine that was damaged beyond repair on South Georgia...Once the Naval option had been taken away,Britain could concentrate on just one front(the Argentine airforce) instead of two..
You will be very hard pushed to find a military strategist who didn't agree that the sinking of the Belgrano was the correct course of action from a military point of view.Argentina invaded the Islands,dug in,resupplied from land and sea and had the Junta had full passionate support of the Argentine people.They were never going to just pack up and leave..
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We should have sent a Polaris sub only, and given them seven days to start getting off the Falklands, or forget about local derby's River Plate against Boca Juniors.
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We should have sent a Polaris sub only, and given them seven days to start getting off the Falklands, or forget about local derby's River Plate against Boca Juniors.
f**king hell, Donald Trump!!!
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Filo, I bet it would have concentrated their minds, especially if a dummy one had been fired eight days before into a pre determined field where nobody could be hurt.
Much better than over three hundred Brits and even more Argies getting killed, cheaper than a task force as well, and quicker. What is the point of having the tackle costing millions if you shit the bed if you have to use it.
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The Nuclear alternative was never even considered as an option. We we about to hand over Sovereignty to Argentina.It was the unstable Fascist regime that became the major problem.
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Let me get this right. We've got grown men, with votes, talking about whether we should have threatened Argentina with nuclear missiles in 1982?
God al-f**king-mighty.
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Big game of bluff Billy, I will leave you to guess whether I would have used nuclear missiles.
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Is it f**k a game of bluff.
It's a game of certainty. You establish clear and unequivocal rules that say, "If you step over this line, this will be the response."
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Is it f**k a game of bluff.
It's a game of certainty. You establish clear and unequivocal rules that say, "If you step over this line, this will be the response."
Were JFK and Kruschev bluffing in 1962?
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No. The lines of escalation were crystal clear. I'll dig out a quote from one of the members of Kennedy's ExComm later on. It crystallises it.
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No. The lines of escalation were crystal clear. I'll dig out a quote from one of the members of Kennedy's ExComm later on. It crystallises it.
I can remember the deadline day well. I was working at the Plant, having just left school. At snap time, lots of us were looking up at the clear blue sky. One of the blokes said "Well there's nothing coming over yet".
Secretly I think he was sh*tting himself. Talk about whistling Dixie.
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Bob MacNamara, Kennedy's Defence Secretary left the War Room and went out to see the sunset on the Saturday night of the crisis, because he thought he wasn't going to see another one.
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Suleimani wasn't in Baghdad on a sightseeing tour, thank god Corbyn isn't PM!
Is it only me that finds the reason he was in Baghdad fascinating?
Apparently he was negotiating with the Saudi's about de-escalating tensions in the region and was due to have a meeting with the Iraqi PM who was acting as the go-between.
Did the US - who supply billions of dollars in arms to the Saudis - not know about these peace talks? If they did, why on earth would they want to do anything to disrupt them?
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/qassem-soleimani-death-iran-baghdad-middle-east-iraq-saudi-arabia-a9272901.html
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SS.
Here's the narrative from ExComm I promised you.
Dean Acheson had been Truman's Secretary of State at the start of the Cold War. Kennedy invited him to join ExComm as the crisis developed, to draw on his experience.
On Black Saturday, when the Soviet boats were approaching the exclusion zone with more nuclear missiles for Cuba and time was running out, Kennedy was considering sending air strikes (conventional weapons) to destroy the ballistic missiles in Cuba. He asked Acheson what the Soviet reaction would be.
Acheson: I know the Soviets well. I know what they are required to do in the light of their history and their posture around the world. I think they would knock out our (nuclear) missiles in Turkey (a NATO member).
Kennedy: What do we do then?
Acheson: I believe under our NATO treaty, with which I was associated, we would be required to respond by knocking out a missile base inside the Soviet Union.
Kennedy: Then what do they do?
Acheson: That is when we hope that cooler heads will prevail and they will stop and talk.
Source: Theodore Sorenson's (Kennedy's adviser) submission to the Kennedy Library oral history programme.
The USA knew what that would lead to. The Soviet Union knew that if they continued pushing, they would force the USA into that line of action. Both sides knew what the others' red lines were. As a result, Kennedy reined back on the plan to attack Cuba and the Soviets instructed their boats not to push on with delivering more missiles to Cuba.
During one ExComm meeting in which some of the US military top brass were pushing for military action, Kennedy took an aide to one side and said "Do those people realise that if we make a mistake here, there may be 200 million dead?"
About the same time, Khruschev was having similar discussions with his generals. He claims to have said to them "Can you guarantee that holding fast would not result in the deaths of 500 million human beings? They looked at me as if I was out of my mind, or worse, a traitor. The biggest tragedy for them was not that our country might be devastated, but that the Chinese or Albanians might accuse us of weakness. What good would it have done me in the last hour of my life to know that, though our great nation and the USA were in ruins, the national honour of the Soviet Union was intact?" (Source: The Cold War by Martin Walker.
Both Presidents knew that neither their side, nor the other side were bluffing. There was a remorseless logic to each side's reactions and because Kennedy and Khruschev both knew that, they both had the sense to find a compromise solution, rather than breech the other side's red lines.
I've read voraciously on the Cuban Missile Crisis. It holds a morbid fascination for me. I've never seen the word "bluff" once in the tens of thousands of words I've read.
Regarding Selby's daft comments earlier, I assume he was making a sick joke. If he was serious then the way his mind works is terrifying.
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The good news is we have a Tory government where boris is wanting to de escalate things who has said not to bomb culturel targets, if this was labour and Tony Blair he would have took us into a illegal war and lied his tits off, so when all is said and done well done the tories and boris
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But what if Robert Walpole was still PM bp?
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But what if Robert Walpole was still PM bp?
Who??? 😂😂😂
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The good news is we have a Tory government where boris is wanting to de escalate things who has said not to bomb culturel targets, if this was labour and Tony Blair he would have took us into a illegal war and lied his tits off, so when all is said and done well done the tories and boris
OK, so because Corbyn is anti war, and because of your anti Labour stance you feel the need to find a Labour leader that might have taken us i to war. Was n’t it long ago that you were slating Corbyn for potentially doing what you are now praising Johnson for doing?
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What this affair has done is show how many people out there genuinely believe foreign policy and nuclear war is as simple as negotiating a better broadband contract or something. Bluffing! Nuclear war! Christ.
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Didn't Cameron take us into Libya without an exit strategy, leaving the mess that is Libya now. It's not only Blair who has made poor calculations.
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Looks like a few Americans have died tonight in retaliation.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51028954
Iran has also said that if the USA retaliates, they will wipe out Haifa in Israel and Dubai.
This is getting rather f**king serious.
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Agree if any us soldiers are killed I think there will be massive issues
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Here in Bahrain we are extremely nervous. This is a tiny nation in between Iraq and everywhere else wanting a go at them. Also Bahrain is home to the US 7th Fleet, and a large British naval base. Making this an easy target. All approximately 1.5 miles from my house :(
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Stay safe mate
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Hopefully that will be the end of this escalation..Looks like no casualty,and it's a very weak response from Iran followed by a flood of iran social media messages trying to bring the temp down...
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Hopefully that will be the end of this escalation..Looks like no casualty,and it's a very weak response from Iran followed by a flood of iran social media messages trying to bring the temp down...
Trump won’t recognise that though, he’s thick as pig shit
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Fingers crossed that response was enough to satisfy Iranian honour but not enough to kill anyone and set off a cycle.
Meanwhile, I'm not a conspiracy theorist usually, but this is a bizarre coincidence.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51032651
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Phew. I guess cooler Iranian heads prevailed. Perhaps they realize Trump is a nut job who is being impeached and needed a distraction. (Most ppl here do believe this scenario). The Trump admin have been trying to come up with a plausible reason for the killing of Suleimani, but it’s a bunch of answers which do not jibe which has also confirmed suspicions. Also, that letter which was sent to the Iranian military and then pulled back as being a ‘draft’ maybe was just pulled back because it showed our weakness and confirmed what suleimani actually wanted, which was US out of Iran. So it is all a mess although ironically not the actual killing of Suleimani which was done with precision.
So now what? I also wonder if someone intervened to cool the situation but I think we are not out of the woods yet. I’m thinking they will still do something else like cyber attacks. It seems hard to believe that that will be the end of the response to this killing.
I’m not sure about the airline crash yet, but they have pulled the info that it was a mechanical failure. I hope it’s a coincidence.
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Iran know they have nothing to gain here,last night proved how weak they are military,with most of the missile either failing to detonate falling short or either failing to launch at all...Thay was a planned response designed not to actually kill anybody but to satisfy their peoples honour..I suspect even Trump will recognise that.In some ways that was the best response short term we could have hoped for in the scheme of things..
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Makes you wonder if the 'retaliation' was almost agreed mutually . no one hurt , honour upheld , both sides now seen to have stood up to the other . Like walking the ball in after a dodgy goal
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Conversation will have gone like this. Just kill a couple of goats on the perimeter, and put afew pock marks in the runway.
Anything else and you are a goner, we will just take you out like your mate.
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Still not looking good for NATO these are the latest readiness figures for the equipment of the German Armed forces, I bet the French and Italians are equally as appallingly bag!
The 2018 ‘Report on the Operational Readiness of the Bundeswehr Primary Weapons Systems’ was presented to Germany’s lower house of parliament with the following headline availability figures.
Typhoon jets: 39 of 128
Tornado jets: 26 of 93
CH-53 transport helicopters: 16 of 72
NH-90 transport helicopters: 13 of 58
Tiger attack helicopters: 12 of 62
A400M transport aircraft: 3 of 15
Leopard 2 tanks: 105 of 224
Frigates: 5 of 13
Submarines: 0 out of 6
According to local media, the German Defence Ministry said that a higher number of training missions and deployments since Russia’s intervention in eastern Ukraine in 2014 had caused existing equipment to wear down quicker than it had previously.
“It’s a real disaster for the Navy, it’s the first time in history that there will not be any submarine operating for months,” warned the president of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the German Parliament, Hans-Peter Bartels, in an interview published at the time.
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Conversation will have gone like this. Just kill a couple of goats on the perimeter, and put afew pock marks in the runway.
Anything else and you are a goner, we will just take you out like your mate.
Iran is a country of 80million, fiercely nationalistic people, with a history of fighting.
Do you reckon America has the stomach to conscript 2million 20 year olds to go and permanently occupy them?
Because if they go in and decapitate their leadership, without having some plan for how to contain the ensuing chaos, I'll tell you now - your great-great-grandkids will still be dealing with the consequences.
America has turned a blind eye to this response because it is at least as much in their favour as it is in Iran's to do so. The grown-ups have managed to keep a lid on this example if Trump's petulance. Let's just hope they keep him on a lead until he gets voted out in 10 months time.
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I reckon most Iranians rue the day that Homeni was let off the leash by the French!
Take out the snake head and they will be as docile as Sheep.
What have they have since 1978? Sweet Franklyn Abbott!
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Conversation will have gone like this. Just kill a couple of goats on the perimeter, and put afew pock marks in the runway.
Anything else and you are a goner, we will just take you out like your mate.
Iran is a country of 80million, fiercely nationalistic people, with a history of fighting.
Do you reckon America has the stomach to conscript 2million 20 year olds to go and permanently occupy them?
Because if they go in and decapitate their leadership, without having some plan for how to contain the ensuing chaos, I'll tell you now - your great-great-grandkids will still be dealing with the consequences.
America has turned a blind eye to this response because it is at least as much in their favour as it is in Iran's to do so. The grown-ups have managed to keep a lid on this example if Trump's petulance. Let's just hope they keep him on a lead until he gets voted out in 10 months time.
If you think Trump will get voted out in 10 month's I fear you are very much mistaken.America's economy is booming compaired to when he came into power and they love the America first attitude.He will be re-elected at a canter..
Trump has actually played this very well.He has eliminated a very big prize.Shown Iran he wont be messed with regardless of the concequences.And when it came down to the wire,the weakness of Irans response has shown them up for their sabre rattling.
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Wing Co.
I've no idea where you get this concept from that the US economy is booming. It's simply not. It's ticked along throughout Trump's time at something below the average growth rate of the last few decades, and has dropped off even that over the past year.
Secondly...
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-is-the-most-unpopular-president-since-ford-to-run-for-reelection/
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to recap:
Trump is a genius but you can't see his grades
Trump is healthy but you can't see his medical report
Trump is wealthy but you can't see his tax returns
the call was perfect but you can't question his advisors
Sulemani was an imminent threat but you can't see the intel
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Looks like the Airliner was downed by Iranian Missiles not a good start for Irans Revenge against the great Satan!
As for their threat to keep sparking off missiles ! we all know who is gonna win that Card game!
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No thoughts of condolences for the 160-odd folk who died there Sproty? No thoughts about the unnecessary escalation that led to this horrific error?
Just a post full of excited exclamation marks?
Quite disgusting to be frank.
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No thoughts of condolences for the 160-odd folk who died there Sproty? No thoughts about the unnecessary escalation that led to this horrific error?
Just a post full of excited exclamation marks?
Quite disgusting to be frank.
Talking of Condolences where are yours???
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Lucky that Trump assassinated that terrorist Colonel then so no innocent people on aeroplanes would ever be killed...
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Lucky that Trump assassinated that terrorist Colonel then so no innocent people on aeroplanes would ever be killed...
Clearly the Iranian Air defence system is pathetic how else could you possibly manage to shoot down a scheduled Air flight approximately 2 minutes after it has taken off from your Major International Air Port.
An ill disciplined rabble is what they are! No wonder all flights have been pulled.
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Lucky that Trump assassinated that terrorist Colonel then so no innocent people on aeroplanes would ever be killed...
Clearly the Iranian Air defence system is pathetic how else could you possibly manage to shoot down a scheduled Air flight approximately 2 minutes after it has taken off from your Major International Air Port.
An ill disciplined rabble is what they are! No wonder all flights have been pulled.
As I said, it's lucky that Trump killed that Colonel then so innocent people on aircraft will now be safe...
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Trump didn't shoot down that plane the Iranians did,they have been on edge since the summer attacks on the Saudi Oil field, don't blame Trump for their idiocy.
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Trump didn't shoot down that plane the Iranians did,they have been on edge since the summer attacks on the Saudi Oil field, don't blame Trump for their idiocy.
When have I blamed Trump!! I said it was lucky that Trump assassinated that Colonel so keep people safe because he said he had intelligence that he was planning to kill innocent people.
The fact he has not shared that intelligence, indeed appears to be rowing back from confirming that there is any, the Colonel was actually conducting peace talks - and that innocent people have now been killed - is I am sure you would agree a total coincidence.
When you annoy mad people don't be surprised if they do mad things.
Trump didn't shoot down that plane but if that Colonel was still alive - would those people on it still be alive Sproty?
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How long is a piece of string ? they have been trigger Happy since their rocket Attack on The Saudi Oil facility. I am not surprised this has happened
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If that Airliner had been flying over Tehran at 37000 feet. I might have had some sympathy for your pathetic post Wilts but it had just taken off from The major International Airport and if some Twit shot it Down, then the only blame lies on Iran.
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After the USS Vincennes shot down Iranian airliner CA655 killing 290 people, it was suggested by US authorities that "scenario fulfillment " was at fault. This is where stressed operatives in a dangerous situation effectively see what they want to see in the evidence in front of them. If it can happen to the very best equipped armed force in the world, it can happen to anyone.
I, thank God, and I'm assuming you Sproty, have no idea what pressure the Iranian air defence people would have been under the other night. I'd imagine they would have been stressed to the maximum, expecting a response from the US forces.
None of that excuses the horrific and tragic mistake, but it sets it in context. It's beneath contempt to belittle the issue with some of the language that you've used.
Given the context, I'd suggest that Wilts in right on the money suggesting that this tragedy would almost certainly not have happened if the stakes hadn't been raised by the assassination of Solemani.
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After the USS Vincennes shot down Iranian airliner CA655 killing 290 people, it was suggested by US authorities that "scenario fulfillment " was at fault. This is where stressed operatives in a dangerous situation effectively see what they want to see in the evidence in front of them. If it can happen to the very best equipped armed force in the world, it can happen to anyone.
I, thank God, and I'm assuming you Sproty, have no idea what pressure the Iranian air defence people would have been under the other night. I'd imagine they would have been stressed to the maximum, expecting a response from the US forces.
None of that excuses the horrific and tragic mistake, but it sets it in context. It's beneath contempt to belittle the issue with some of the language that you've used.
Given the context, I'd suggest that Wilts in right on the money suggesting that this tragedy would almost certainly not have happened if the stakes hadn't been raised by the assassination of Solemani.
And I totally disagree,Justin Trudeau seems to agree with me too, unfortunately they Canada do not have the military capability to pay back the Iranian military in full for its complete f*** up i.e. 16 missiles per life lost, which is what the silly t**ts will be expecting .in accordance with their own practises and beliefs as demonstrated earlier this week.
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After the USS Vincennes shot down Iranian airliner CA655 killing 290 people, it was suggested by US authorities that "scenario fulfillment " was at fault. This is where stressed operatives in a dangerous situation effectively see what they want to see in the evidence in front of them. If it can happen to the very best equipped armed force in the world, it can happen to anyone.
I, thank God, and I'm assuming you Sproty, have no idea what pressure the Iranian air defence people would have been under the other night. I'd imagine they would have been stressed to the maximum, expecting a response from the US forces.
None of that excuses the horrific and tragic mistake, but it sets it in context. It's beneath contempt to belittle the issue with some of the language that you've used.
Given the context, I'd suggest that Wilts in right on the money suggesting that this tragedy would almost certainly not have happened if the stakes hadn't been raised by the assassination of Solemani.
How far back to you want to go Billy??? Irans attack on the Saudi oil fields?? Iran's hijacking of the oil tankers?? Iranian backed terrorist attacks...His planned attack on the US embassy last week..
You cant watch all that go by,then blame Trump when he said I've had enough of this,they needputting back in their box..Unless your Jeremy Corbyn of course and look what people thought of that..
The airliner was a tragedy no doubt and with all conflicts over the age of time,it's the innocent that have paid the full price.However the bottom line for me is that Iran have been getting bolder and bolder,prodding the beast with a stick and with every non reaction they get braver still...The US actions have given them a sharp reminder on what can come their way and the Iranians folded away like a damp squib.
Innocents have died and that's awful,but the events of the last few days have been minor in the scheme of things and maybe better now than waiting for Iran to keep getting braver and do something the whole world will regret.
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It's quite amazing that, way back in 2011, a visionary would predict exactly what would happen the other day; and why it would happen....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSrC7-ERrE4
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WingCo
I think you've misunderstood my post.
I'm not using the Iran Air 665 event to justify what Iran did the other night. This isn't some sort of accounting book exercise. I'm saying that the concept of scenario fulfillment was suggested as a reason behind that terrible event, and I suspect something very similar happened in this terrible event.
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After the USS Vincennes shot down Iranian airliner CA655 killing 290 people, it was suggested by US authorities that "scenario fulfillment " was at fault. This is where stressed operatives in a dangerous situation effectively see what they want to see in the evidence in front of them. If it can happen to the very best equipped armed force in the world, it can happen to anyone.
I, thank God, and I'm assuming you Sproty, have no idea what pressure the Iranian air defence people would have been under the other night. I'd imagine they would have been stressed to the maximum, expecting a response from the US forces.
None of that excuses the horrific and tragic mistake, but it sets it in context. It's beneath contempt to belittle the issue with some of the language that you've used.
Given the context, I'd suggest that Wilts in right on the money suggesting that this tragedy would almost certainly not have happened if the stakes hadn't been raised by the assassination of Solemani.
How far back to you want to go Billy??? Irans attack on the Saudi oil fields?? Iran's hijacking of the oil tankers?? Iranian backed terrorist attacks...His planned attack on the US embassy last week..
You cant watch all that go by,then blame Trump when he said I've had enough of this,they needputting back in their box..Unless your Jeremy Corbyn of course and look what people thought of that..
The airliner was a tragedy no doubt and with all conflicts over the age of time,it's the innocent that have paid the full price.However the bottom line for me is that Iran have been getting bolder and bolder,prodding the beast with a stick and with every non reaction they get braver still...The US actions have given them a sharp reminder on what can come their way and the Iranians folded away like a damp squib.
Innocents have died and that's awful,but the events of the last few days have been minor in the scheme of things and maybe better now than waiting for Iran to keep getting braver and do something the whole world will regret.
I hear what you have to say WC and you deserve some respect for your past service.
However it is the same argument that was used when Sadam Hussein and Gadafi were taken out - how did that play out?
Or as a bloke who works at dealing with the outcome of terrorism and who has himself stopped a terrorist attack said today:
The man who used a narwhal tusk to tackle the London Bridge terrorist Usman Khan has accused Donald Trump of “feeding terror” with his belligerent Middle East policy, warning it will breed more murderous attackers like the one he and others faced.
In his first interview since Khan killed two people and injured several more at a criminal justice conference on 29 November, Darryn Frost said the US president’s decision to assassinate General Qassem Suleimani would cost lives and added: “The next generation of terrorists will rise as a direct result of these actions and we must condemn them now.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/10/man-who-tackled-london-bridge-attacker-with-narwhal-tusk-says-trump-is-feeding-terror
You get back to me in a month, a year, 5 years and tell me how much safer Trump has made us - then I will believe you.
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347 people were in 2x 737 Max crashes in 2018/19.
Turns out issues were concealed from regulators
Same plane that crashed over Iran.
In a 2017 exchange, an employee wrote: “This aeroplane is designed by clowns who in turn are supervised by monkeys.”
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Foxbat.
It wasn't a 737 Max in the Iran tragedy.
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misled by twitter on that , but a useful reminder for anyone thinking about Yankee trade deals
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"Ukrainian passenger jet was accidentally shot down by Iranian anti-aircraft missile"
And the manifest truth is that those 176 souls on board would still be alive had Donald Trump not started a 'Wag The Dog' war to detract attention from his impeachment.
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misled by twitter on that , but a useful reminder for anyone thinking about Yankee trade deals
Can't get your facts right about quite a few things just lately
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"Ukrainian passenger jet was accidentally shot down by Iranian anti-aircraft missile"
And the manifest truth is that those 176 souls on board would still be alive had Donald Trump not started a 'Wag The Dog' war to detract attention from his impeachment.
But did he do the right thing killing this guy? He probably did, the guy was a big part of things that are wrong in the middle east. Questionable the method that was used though theres no secrets and they'd have known it was Americans if done covertly anyway.
As for shooting the plane down that's a huge mistake from Iran that just should not be made. I take BSTs point on the psychology of it but that in itself is a failing, the people in charge of that should be capable enough to deal with it.
Identifying a commercial airliner is easy it shouldn't go wrong.
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Would you say the same if some 'rogue' nation took out Trump? he's biggest threat to world peace at the moment wouldn't you think bfyp?
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So The Iranian Government has admitted that the Airliner was downed by a short range Ground to Air missile which was fired by Revolutionary Guards!
No doubt there will be some posters on this board who will be blaming Trump for causing this, when actually Iran brought this catastrophe on its self following at least half a dozen aggressive acts towards the US and its Allies.
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So The Iranian Government has admitted that the Airliner was downed by a short range Ground to Air missile which was fired by Revolutionary Guards!
No doubt there will be some posters on this board who will be blaming Trump for causing this, when actually Iran brought this catastrophe on its self following at least half a dozen aggressive acts towards the US and its Allies.
Iran accidentally shot down a civilian airplane because they had committed 'aggressive acts' towards the US!
Yes Donald. Right Donald.
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About time you Corbynites 'Man up' and see the trees not the woods
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About time you Corbynites 'Man up' and see the trees not the woods
WTF has Corbyn got to do with this?
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About time you Corbynites 'Man up' and see the trees not the woods
WTF has Corbyn got to do with this?
Corbyn is an apologist for terrorism its twits like Corbyn that have lead the Iranian government to think it could 'Push too Far" being a bunch of unrestrained idiots they have managed to reap what they sowed and after 'Accidentally ' murdering 176 people most of who have family in Iran they now find themselves in an untenable position.
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Who knew Corbyn had all that power!
There's me thinking it was the chaos following the war in Iraq, the rise of Islamic State, the civil war in Yemen, the civil war in Syria, the return of the Taliban to Afghanistan, the Muslim Brotherhood in Eygpt and now the civil war in Libya that had destablised the Middle East, allowed Iran to flourish and then be destablised themselves by Trump scrapping a UN brokered deal that was working perfectly well.
But all the time it was a pretty minor British politician who wielded all that power, wow.
But thanks for putting me straight on why Corbyn is an apologist for terrorism. Can you now clarify why the bloke who attended IRA fundraisers with Gerry Adams isn't?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-attended-sinn-f-in-fundraiser-months-before-ira-attacked-london-a6767601.html
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About time you Corbynites 'Man up' and see the trees not the woods
WTF has Corbyn got to do with this?
Corbyn is an apologist for terrorism its twits like Corbyn that have lead the Iranian government to think it could 'Push too Far" being a bunch of unrestrained idiots they have managed to reap what they sowed and after 'Accidentally ' murdering 176 people most of who have family in Iran they now find themselves in an untenable position.
Help, help is there a psychiatrist in the house :) :)
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About time you Corbynites 'Man up' and see the trees not the woods
WTF has Corbyn got to do with this?
Corbyn is an apologist for terrorism its twits like Corbyn that have lead the Iranian government to think it could 'Push too Far" being a bunch of unrestrained idiots they have managed to reap what they sowed and after 'Accidentally ' murdering 176 people most of who have family in Iran they now find themselves in an untenable position.
I think you have a problem Sproty, I really do.
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About time you Corbynites 'Man up' and see the trees not the woods
WTF has Corbyn got to do with this?
Corbyn is an apologist for terrorism its twits like Corbyn that have lead the Iranian government to think it could 'Push too Far" being a bunch of unrestrained idiots they have managed to reap what they sowed and after 'Accidentally ' murdering 176 people most of who have family in Iran they now find themselves in an untenable position.
Help, help is there a psychiatrist in the house :) :)
Try the self slaps first Sydders, then self refer!
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All of the silly farts on here who spent the best part of 6 weeks torturing us about how the Labour Party was gonna storm into power on Comrade Corbyns rickety old back were also the same peeps to jump into criticism of the Killing of our Iranian Terrorist General Sulieman, they then had the temerity to try to blame the yanks for a bunch of crack pot part time soldiers accidentally shooting down a plane full of innocents which had barely cleared the air space of their main international air terminus.
I think events will show who is to blame,university students refusing to step on the US flag and Israeli flag says it all really.
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All of the silly farts on here who spent the best part of 6 weeks torturing us about how the Labour Party was gonna storm into power on Comrade Corbyns rickety old back were also the same peeps to jump into criticism of the Killing of our Iranian Terrorist General Sulieman, they then had the temerity to try to blame the yanks for a bunch of crack pot part time soldiers accidentally shooting down a plane full of innocents which had barely cleared the air space of their main international air terminus.
I think events will show who is to blame,university students refusing to step on the US flag and Israeli flag says it all really.
I'm right, you really do have a problem!
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In my opinion this thread appears to have taught us two things:
there isn't any international situation that Donald Trump can't make worse
there is no limit to the blindness of Trump's acolytes who will never believe he is at fault for anything
What it hasn't taught us, yet, is that you can be both against the brutally of the Iranian regime towards its own people and the wider middle east (but they are far from alone in that regard) and against American interference in Iranian affairs that are bound to make the situation there even worse.
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Good summary there Wilts
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In my opinion this thread appears to have taught us two things:
there isn't any international situation that Donald Trump can't make worse
there is no limit to the blindness of Trump's acolytes who will never believe he is at fault for anything
What it hasn't taught us, yet, is that you can be both against the brutally of the Iranian regime towards its own people and the wider middle east (but they are far from alone in that regard) and against American interference in Iranian affairs that are bound to make the situation there even worse.
What American interference are you on about, you know something we don't?