Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: scawsby steve on May 08, 2020, 08:09:32 pm
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It looks like the lock-down has gone for a burton today. Out on my walk, I've seen more street parties, house parties, and barbecues than I've ever seen in one day in my entire life.
If this has been the theme throughout the whole country, and it doesn't create a second wave of the virus, then it will bolster my belief that many of us have actually had it.
I'm pretty sure I did about the end of February.
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It is possible to have a street/garden party with your neighbours without breaking lockdown..
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not were i live in Bentley if one of them is infected around 50 of them are now
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Quite a few people in beer garden of local club walking about with pints
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A few near me.
The press announcing lockdown ending on Monday probably doesn't help at all.
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Been the same in Sheffield. I went out for a walk a few hours ago. Went through three different big-ish street parties. And an open pub.
And if I see another Kitson in an Audi drive down our 20mph road at 50mph I'm hoying a half setter at the bas**rd.
Why is it ALWAYS Audi drivers?
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A few near me.
The press announcing lockdown ending on Monday probably doesn't help at all.
It is the media who have been talking up the easing of lockdown that has been the issue all week.
There are plenty of d**kheads who will use that as an excuse to break the rules.
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Hound.
And where do you think the media got the idea from?
I'll give you a clue. This is the verbatim transcript of what Johnson said on the topic at PMQs on Weds.
"We will want, if we possibly can, to get going with some of these measures on Monday, and I think it will be a good thing if people have an idea of what is coming the following day. That is why I think Sunday—the weekend—is the best time to do it."
"These measures" being easing of lockdown.
It all fits the model of him. Zero thought as to the consequences of what he says. Just saying whatever he thinks is going to make him.appear popular in the public eye.
That f**king stupid comment is right up there with the handshaking and Mother's Day ones. And we have seen the consequences today.
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BST, I know what Johnson said on Wednesday but the fact is that the media were talking about easing of lockdown from Monday.
It was spoken about on the BBC breakfast programme and they were even interviewing some people asking about their opinions on certain things.
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.... and the rumour was his Dad had been to see his latest Grandson - thus breaking that protocol.
They didnt challenge him on BBC while I was watching (may have done later) but asked a question that he could answer without lying
Something like " well exciting times so have you seen your new Grandson and have you been watching him on Social media etc"
If the rumour is true he could answere truthfully YES to having seen him and YES to have been watching him on Social media
They didnt say "so come on - level with us have you visited the sprog in person yet" but lets face it there are many many more serious questions that they leave unchallenged.
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The media, which is unfortunately so relied upon by many for telling the truth, doesn't give a shite about the safety of its audience in the process.
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The media wants greater numbers of viewers/readers of their products..
The information is there if you filter out all the attention grabbing sensationalism.
For example, there have been discussions n the background about what to do next with furlough but it’s never been a headline on the BBC news - one option is to reduce the payments to 60%.
That won’t be very popular so it’s been buried in the details..
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Yep, the BBC do like to be popular. That's why they appeal to the Boris bashers.
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BST, I know what Johnson said on Wednesday but the fact is that the media were talking about easing of lockdown from Monday.
It was spoken about on the BBC breakfast programme and they were even interviewing some people asking about their opinions on certain things.
Do you think the media just all suddenly decided that was the thing to talk about? All at the same time?
Surely you have some inkling of how this works?
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Hound.
And where do you think the media got the idea from?
I'll give you a clue. This is the verbatim transcript of what Johnson said on the topic at PMQs on Weds.
"We will want, if we possibly can, to get going with some of these measures on Monday, and I think it will be a good thing if people have an idea of what is coming the following day. That is why I think Sunday—the weekend—is the best time to do it."
"These measures" being easing of lockdown.
It all fits the model of him. Zero thought as to the consequences of what he says. Just saying whatever he thinks is going to make him.appear popular in the public eye.
That f**king stupid comment is right up there with the handshaking and Mother's Day ones. And we have seen the consequences today.
Yup, four zeros on the bonnet, one zero behind the wheel.
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BST, I know what Johnson said on Wednesday but the fact is that the media were talking about easing of lockdown from Monday.
It was spoken about on the BBC breakfast programme and they were even interviewing some people asking about their opinions on certain things.
Do you think the media just all suddenly decided that was the thing to talk about? All at the same time?
Surely you have some inkling of how this works?
BST, what is wrong with you, why do you have to jump on peoples posts and put them down.
Of course I know how things work.
Earlier in the thread I simply said that the media were talking up the easing of lockdown in response a post by DO who said that it doesn’t help when the media don’t help by announcing the ending of lockdown.
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I got to musing last night while out walking with my kids on whether the apparently strong societal structures and norms we have are actually a paper thin veneer.
It wasn't the Audis. I expect them to be driven by antisocial bell ends and that's priced in. It wasn't the street parties or the pub.
It was the moment a 6'8" or thereabouts bloke wearing just shorts and a bandana came teararsing down the road on a quad bike woke no number plates, doing 70 or so through a set of traffic lights that had already turned to red. Kind if felt like a mini Mad Max.
You have to wonder, Threads-like, how quickly everything would fall apart if we had a really serious societal problem to deal with.
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BST, I know what Johnson said on Wednesday but the fact is that the media were talking about easing of lockdown from Monday.
It was spoken about on the BBC breakfast programme and they were even interviewing some people asking about their opinions on certain things.
Do you think the media just all suddenly decided that was the thing to talk about? All at the same time?
Surely you have some inkling of how this works?
BST, what is wrong with you, why do you have to jump on peoples posts and put them down.
Of course I know how things work.
Earlier in the thread I simply said that the media were talking up the easing of lockdown in response a post by DO who said that it doesn’t help when the media don’t help by announcing the ending of lockdown.
It's the frustration of seeing you simply pointing the finger at "the media" (who are shit, granted) but never at the ones who are feeding them the lines to push. You KNOW this is the Govt putting out feelers to see what the response is. So why blame only the media?
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If your theory's right then maybe if the media and its readers weren't so gullible the government wouldn't feed them?
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People like Johnson and Trump rely on the gullible, ignorant and selfish masses, as I have said before, people who only see the headlines and the sensationalism, and ignore the actual truth behind that.
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Haha. f**k me rigid! Aye, OK!
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BB
The owners and editors of The Mail, Express and Sun are far from gullible and naive. They know exactly what they are doing.
In the cases of Kuenssberg and Peston, I'm less sure. They ARE used as conduits to get Govt messages out. There's no question of that. The "assault" story two days before the Election is all the proof you could ever want. What I don't know is whether they are colluding in that deliberately, or if they actually believe that keeping close to Cummings and others actually constitutes proper investigate journalism.
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Strange that. The people I know who read the Mail, Express and Sun say exactly the same about the gullibility of the Guardian readers and the like.
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BB
I didn't say anything about readers. Odd of you to raise that point but I'm sure there's a reason. There usually is when you post, even if it's not really connected to the subject matter being discussed.
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BB.
That's because either
1) you've made it up,because you woke up in an argumentative mood.
Or,
2) your little circle of reader friends are thick as f@#k.
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BST, YOU might not have been talking about the media, but I was!
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Iberian Red. do you honestly think that you contribute towards BST's cause? Do you honestly think you strengthen his case. It is people like you who, when they show support for his views, cause people like me to take up a stronger resolve against his views.
You are indeed the Britain Surrendering Together party's answer to Diane Abbott.
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BB.
One of THEM days again is it?
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BB.
That's because either
1) you've made it up,because you woke up in an argumentative mood.
Or,
2) your little circle of reader friends are thick as f@#k.
Yeah, thick enough to get political predictions right all the time.
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I thinks its time to let the idiots out.
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Where I live the street was full of visitors, parked cars everywhere, people visiting families.
They didn't give a toss.
My next door neighbours are currently having a bbq with at least a dozen people round.
Ive notified the police online, but speaking to other people in my village, they wouldn't attend those breaking lockdown yesterday as there were too many reports of it.
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BB.
One of THEM days again is it?
I'm used to it now, mate. I don't know how you can live having someone like Iberian Red on your side, to be honest.
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I thinks its time to let the idiots out.
Sadly, I fear they are already out. Thus the real question should be 'who let them out?'
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BB.
I've no idea what you mean by "side" but you do seem to have a fixation with that theme.
For the record, I don't like IR's approach. I find it unpleasant and distespectful and I certainly don't encourage it.
But I understand where it comes from. There's a hell of a lot of refusal to engage with issues but instead chuck out and hominems in here. Or bait and wind up people. And IR certainly didn't start that.
I've always had the principle that you should reflect on your own behaviour before criticising others. Then we might have a more civil set of interactions.
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Where I live the street was full of visitors, parked cars everywhere, people visiting families.
They didn't give a toss.
My next door neighbours are currently having a bbq with at least a dozen people round.
Ive notified the police online, but speaking to other people in my village, they wouldn't attend those breaking lockdown yesterday as there were too many reports of it.
The neighbourhood stasi.
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The w**kers that live next door to me had a garden full again, for the third time in four weekends.
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They certainly don't f**k about in Singapore when it comes to getting folk to behave like responsible adults
https://mobile.twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1258797162684653568
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BST, by "side" I mean those who answer your posts for you in an unpleasant and disrespectful way, like Iberian Red. When does he engage with issues instead of chucking out disrespectful unpleasantries? How on earth can he complain?
I suggest you have a rethink, or maybe a look back on the posts from this forum over the last 4 years or so to find the real culprits. You might also realise the number of people with an opposite opinion to you and your "side" who have buggered off over that period. It seems those of us still left who oppose your views have a stronger resolve than them.
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Where I live the street was full of visitors, parked cars everywhere, people visiting families.
They didn't give a toss.
My next door neighbours are currently having a bbq with at least a dozen people round.
Ive notified the police online, but speaking to other people in my village, they wouldn't attend those breaking lockdown yesterday as there were too many reports of it.
The neighbourhood stasi.
I'd say ARP Warden is a better analogy.
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BB
I've given you my two pennorth on IR.
Does it dawn on you what your role has been in making the atmosphere toxic in here over the past 4 years?
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BB
I've given you my two pennorth on IR.
Does it dawn on you what your role has been in making the atmosphere toxic in here over the past 4 years?
If you're suggesting I've responded to personal offensive posts in likewise fashion you are probably on the whole correct, but if you think I've made it toxic by doing so I'd say you're being a bit one-sided, as usual. However, I think the real truth is you don't like anyone who prevents you from wallowing in the luxury of unopposed opinion.
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No.
I'm saying your insistence fit years about arguing about arguing.
Your last sentence says it all. You assume that's what it is all about. You assume that people are acting from bad motives.
Me, I'm interested, always in exchanging views. I enjoy being provoked to examine my opinions by people who are informed and think about issues. You don't do that. You bait people ABOUT having opinions. And then you get arsey when people chip back.
Join in and discuss the content, why don't you?
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Just for clarity can someone please confirm if I am on BST's side or not? Seeing as how we are arguing on another thread like?
And just to put my t'pworth into the mix been out on the bike up past a local beauty spot today. Car park has been coned and roped off for weeks - somebody has pushed them to one side and there were about 30 cars in it.
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BST, I have exchanged views, and I, like everyone else who takes my side, have had to do it based on personal experience, simply because there aren't examples of our opinions in the media outlets that you and your side deem acceptable. I could quite easily produce link after link, Sydney style, to make my argument for me if that was accepted!
You know my opinion of the referendum, for instance. I told you often enough. I told you my main argument was indeed about how the argument was conducted, both before and after the result, and I still stand by that.
I have the exact same view over the way the arguments have been conducted both prior and after the general election. The hatred being shown in politics these days is a real threat to democracy, in my opinion, and probably one of the most neglected subjects in terms of importance.
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Just for clarity can someone please confirm if I am on BST's side or not? Seeing as how we are arguing on another thread like?
And just to put my t'pworth into the mix been out on the bike up past a local beauty spot today. Car park has been coned and roped off for weeks - somebody has pushed them to one side and there were about 30 cars in it.
Wilts, it is a shame that someone didn’t come along and drop some of those big concrete blocks into the gateway to force those d**kheads (that I mentioned earlier in the thread) to have to either stay there with their cars or walk home.
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Just for clarity can someone please confirm if I am on BST's side or not? Seeing as how we are arguing on another thread like?
And just to put my t'pworth into the mix been out on the bike up past a local beauty spot today. Car park has been coned and roped off for weeks - somebody has pushed them to one side and there were about 30 cars in it.
There are threads on the football forum asking posters who their favourite Rovers' players are. I dare say no one will have the same opinion overall and will argue the point to some extent. But, they're all Rovers fans, so the 'arguments' are friendly arguments, so to speak.
Now, if the poll was open to Rotherham fans, and the question was "who had the best players?" I dare say the arguments would become somewhat more heated.
Do you see where I'm coming from Wilts? The analogy is, I suppose, You and BST don't argue like one of you being a Miller and the other a Rover. You are more like a couple of Millers.
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Just for clarity can someone please confirm if I am on BST's side or not? Seeing as how we are arguing on another thread like?
And just to put my t'pworth into the mix been out on the bike up past a local beauty spot today. Car park has been coned and roped off for weeks - somebody has pushed them to one side and there were about 30 cars in it.
Wilts, it is a shame that someone didn’t come along and drop some of those big concrete blocks into the gateway to force those d**kheads (that I mentioned earlier in the thread) to have to either stay there with their cars or walk home.
There's a lot about hound - everywhere it seems not just by you
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Just for clarity can someone please confirm if I am on BST's side or not? Seeing as how we are arguing on another thread like?
And just to put my t'pworth into the mix been out on the bike up past a local beauty spot today. Car park has been coned and roped off for weeks - somebody has pushed them to one side and there were about 30 cars in it.
There are threads on the football forum asking posters who their favourite players are. I dare say no one will have the same opinion overall and will argue the point to some extent. But, they're all Rovers fans, so the 'arguments' are friendly arguments, so to speak.
Now, if the poll was open to Rotherham fans, and the question was "who had the best players?" I dare say the arguments would become somewhat more heated.
Do you see where I'm coming from Wilts? The analogy is, I suppose, You and BST don't argue like one of you being a Miller and the other a Rover. You are more like a couple of Millers.
You clearly haven't read the posts BB. Which is probably very wise as they are boring as ....
I hope no-one is agreeing with me on alias's favourite player threads - all bar one player I have voted for has been knocked out so far!
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So what are the police doing about it.?
I’m not suggesting they go in all heavy handed and arrest everyone, but something like taking each car registration number and writing to each owner with a formal warning.?
In get that people want to go out, and to socialise, and that some people exercise their free will to break the rules. But it will be those people whose selfishness results in longer or repeated lockdowns.
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Just for clarity can someone please confirm if I am on BST's side or not? Seeing as how we are arguing on another thread like?
And just to put my t'pworth into the mix been out on the bike up past a local beauty spot today. Car park has been coned and roped off for weeks - somebody has pushed them to one side and there were about 30 cars in it.
There are threads on the football forum asking posters who their favourite players are. I dare say no one will have the same opinion overall and will argue the point to some extent. But, they're all Rovers fans, so the 'arguments' are friendly arguments, so to speak.
Now, if the poll was open to Rotherham fans, and the question was "who had the best players?" I dare say the arguments would become somewhat more heated.
Do you see where I'm coming from Wilts? The analogy is, I suppose, You and BST don't argue like one of you being a Miller and the other a Rover. You are more like a couple of Millers.
You clearly haven't read the posts BB. Which is probably very wise as they are boring as ....
I hope no-one is agreeing with me on alias's favourite player threads - all bar one player I have voted for has been knocked out so far!
Same here. No one listens to the voice of reason any more!
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Just for clarity can someone please confirm if I am on BST's side or not? Seeing as how we are arguing on another thread like?
And just to put my t'pworth into the mix been out on the bike up past a local beauty spot today. Car park has been coned and roped off for weeks - somebody has pushed them to one side and there were about 30 cars in it.
There are threads on the football forum asking posters who their favourite players are. I dare say no one will have the same opinion overall and will argue the point to some extent. But, they're all Rovers fans, so the 'arguments' are friendly arguments, so to speak.
Now, if the poll was open to Rotherham fans, and the question was "who had the best players?" I dare say the arguments would become somewhat more heated.
Do you see where I'm coming from Wilts? The analogy is, I suppose, You and BST don't argue like one of you being a Miller and the other a Rover. You are more like a couple of Millers.
You clearly haven't read the posts BB. Which is probably very wise as they are boring as ....
I hope no-one is agreeing with me on alias's favourite player threads - all bar one player I have voted for has been knocked out so far!
Same here. No one listens to the voice of reason any more!
You need to give your crystal ball a polish...
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BB
I've given you arguments for years as to why equating The Mail and The Guardian. I've given you an example from my direct, personal experience big where I KNOW that The Mail willfully and deliberately misled their readers about matters of objective truth. If you have evidence of The Guardian doing the same, feel free to share it.
But I won't hold my breath because I've been asking you for years and all you do is revert to "both sides do it" mode.
I'll give you my piece. I DO think there are two sides and I think there is a struggle going on for the soul of the future. On one side, there are people who believe in the importance of objective truth, weeding out lies and liars and making judgements based on rational assessment of facts.
On the other side, there are people who think that everyone lies to them and just accept that without differentiation, who place gut instinct and particular personal experience over rational assessment of established facts, and who don't hold people to account for their failings, as long as it's one of "their" people.
I know which side I try and want to be on.
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BB.
That's because either
1) you've made it up,because you woke up in an argumentative mood.
Or,
2) your little circle of reader friends are thick as f@#k.
Yeah, thick enough to get political predictions right all the time.
What predictions?
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So what are the police doing about it.?
I’m not suggesting they go in all heavy handed and arrest everyone, but something like taking each car registration number and writing to each owner with a formal warning.?
In get that people want to go out, and to socialise, and that some people exercise their free will to break the rules. But it will be those people whose selfishness results in longer or repeated lockdowns.
I also want to go out and socialise IDM but am not being a dick about it and putting others at risk by doing so.
Those type of people make me sick but irrespective of what the government or the media do or say, they think they are above the law.
A bit like those knobs at football matches who sing “we’re (insert club name), we do what we want”.
As for the police, I have said previously that they are understaffed to start with and they too have officers off work with suspected CV19.
They can’t be everywhere I’m afraid.
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Where I live the street was full of visitors, parked cars everywhere, people visiting families.
They didn't give a toss.
My next door neighbours are currently having a bbq with at least a dozen people round.
Ive notified the police online, but speaking to other people in my village, they wouldn't attend those breaking lockdown yesterday as there were too many reports of it.
The neighbourhood stasi.
Whatever.
Maybe people shouldn't take the piss. Someone of those flouting the rules will be responsible for someone dying.
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Just for clarity can someone please confirm if I am on BST's side or not? Seeing as how we are arguing on another thread like?
And just to put my t'pworth into the mix been out on the bike up past a local beauty spot today. Car park has been coned and roped off for weeks - somebody has pushed them to one side and there were about 30 cars in it.
There are threads on the football forum asking posters who their favourite players are. I dare say no one will have the same opinion overall and will argue the point to some extent. But, they're all Rovers fans, so the 'arguments' are friendly arguments, so to speak.
Now, if the poll was open to Rotherham fans, and the question was "who had the best players?" I dare say the arguments would become somewhat more heated.
Do you see where I'm coming from Wilts? The analogy is, I suppose, You and BST don't argue like one of you being a Miller and the other a Rover. You are more like a couple of Millers.
You clearly haven't read the posts BB. Which is probably very wise as they are boring as ....
I hope no-one is agreeing with me on alias's favourite player threads - all bar one player I have voted for has been knocked out so far!
Same here. No one listens to the voice of reason any more!
You need to give your crystal ball a polish...
You need more than a crystal ball for some of our fans. Take the thread about Rovers best cult figure. All that was needed to find the answer was to ask yourself who was greatly admired as a player, not necessarily by everyone, but by those with a trained eye, had a heart of a lion, and was influential by his sheer presence.
All the evidence required was there..........And poor old Alfie May was omitted!
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BB
I've given you arguments for years as to why equating The Mail and The Guardian. I've given you an example from my direct, personal experience big where I KNOW that The Mail willfully and deliberately misled their readers about matters of objective truth. If you have evidence of The Guardian doing the same, feel free to share it.
But I won't hold my breath because I've been asking you for years and all you do is revert to "both sides do it" mode.
I'll give you my piece. I DO think there are two sides and I think there is a struggle going on for the soul of the future. On one side, there are people who believe in the importance of objective truth, weeding out lies and liars and making judgements based on rational assessment of facts.
On the other side, there are people who think that everyone lies to them and just accept that without differentiation, who place gut instinct and particular personal experience over rational assessment of established facts, and who don't hold people to account for their failings, as long as it's one of "their" people.
I know which side I try and want to be on.
I've told you my opinion of the Guardian. I never said it lied, I said it sometimes gave one side of the story, which often twists the truth. Regarding the mail and your story, did you complain to them, and did they respond? I dare say every paper has had to apologise occasionally over the years for misrepresentation.
Regarding the lies, can you honestly say that you search for lying politicians from ALL parties with equal determination to find a guilty party? And in doing so, do you read news outlets of all political persuasions so as not to form a biased list of liars?
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BB.
That's because either
1) you've made it up,because you woke up in an argumentative mood.
Or,
2) your little circle of reader friends are thick as f@#k.
Yeah, thick enough to get political predictions right all the time.
What predictions?
Have you been in a coma for the last 2 years, or do you just read the posts you agree with? I consistently warned that the Labour Party's continuous blocking of Brexit, and insistence of a second referendum, would result in a day of reckoning.
I also predicted Brexit and Trump in 2016, but I wasn't posting here then, so you'll have to take my word for it. I don't really give a f*ck whether you do or not.
Also, as a graduate, I take exception to anyone on here accusing me of being thick.
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BB
I've given you arguments for years as to why equating The Mail and The Guardian. I've given you an example from my direct, personal experience big where I KNOW that The Mail willfully and deliberately misled their readers about matters of objective truth. If you have evidence of The Guardian doing the same, feel free to share it.
But I won't hold my breath because I've been asking you for years and all you do is revert to "both sides do it" mode.
I'll give you my piece. I DO think there are two sides and I think there is a struggle going on for the soul of the future. On one side, there are people who believe in the importance of objective truth, weeding out lies and liars and making judgements based on rational assessment of facts.
On the other side, there are people who think that everyone lies to them and just accept that without differentiation, who place gut instinct and particular personal experience over rational assessment of established facts, and who don't hold people to account for their failings, as long as it's one of "their" people.
I know which side I try and want to be on.
I've told you my opinion of the Guardian. I never said it lied, I said it sometimes gave one side of the story, which often twists the truth. Regarding the mail and your story, did you complain to them, and did they respond? I dare say every paper has had to apologise occasionally over the years for misrepresentation.
Regarding the lies, can you honestly say that you search for lying politicians from ALL parties with equal determination to find a guilty party? And in doing so, do you read news outlets of all political persuasions so as not to form a biased list of liars?
I wrote the The Mail. I never received a reply.
As for your other questions, yes and yes. I despise lying and deception from anyone, whatever their political persuasion.
Have you had your head in the sand for the past 5 years when I've been criticising Corbyn's lack of honesty over his foreign policy positions?
However, I'd say that the preponderance by far of politicians blatantly and barefacedly lying or deceiving in such a way as to amount to lying, over matters of verifiable objective truth are from the Right in recent years. And that's why so many of the examples I discuss come from the Right. Instead of chelping about that being bias, you could find equally egregious ones from the Left that I'm missing. Instead, you decide to argue semantic points, such as saying that press photographers don't constitute "the Press" and saying that the £350m claim was fair and honest and not intended to deceive the ill-informed, because the top line of our contribution was £350m.
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BST, don't you think Tory lies are more pronounced in recent years because they've been in power in recent years?
Regarding me searching for lies from the left, why should I? I'd be as bad as you for biasedness if I did that. I just think it's a pretty poor situation if you've constantly got to show support for your party by finding fault with the opposition. Anyone would think you've had nowt good to say about your own party.
And......There you go again! I assume you're on about the hospital when Boris said the press wasn't in attendance when the press photographers were, and he was referring to there being no press interview during the visit? So there was a misunderstanding? Don't you think that having to go on and on and on about the same old stories like that, and the £350 million NHS comment, makes you sound so, so desperate? I do.
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MAGICMONDAYGATE: Clear now that Thursday’s UK front pages represent the worst communications error in this country of the entire pandemic. This was briefed in total contrast to public interest and reality. It should be investigated.
David Yelland - the man who called Tony Blair the 'Most Dangerous Man In Britain' whilst editor of the S*n
https://twitter.com/davidyelland/status/1259006328887967746
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BB
The word "interview" never came up until the No10 press office tried unshitting the bed.
I think an outrageous lie, repeated multiple times even after being reprimanded by the independent head of the ONS, believed by half the population on a subject so important stands for all time. It do you have a statute of limitations on the morality of lies and liars?
I'll set you another challenge then. Don't look for left wing lies in order to be biased. Do it as a research exercise. Go and see how many clear and unambiguous lies on matters of demonstrable objective truth you can find from prominent left wing politicians over the past decade. Not interpretations of policy, or predictions that turned out to be flawed. Lies.
Like the ones we got regularly from David David when he was Brexit Secretary that the Govt had done no projections of the economic effects of Brexit. They had.
Like the one from Johnson in the Election Campaign that the Govt had set aside funding for 40 new hospitals. They had set aside funding for 6.
Like the one from Matt Hancock more recently that the Govt was liaising with supermarkets to get food to the vulnerable. They weren't.
Go on. Go and do some research and find similar levels of objective truth denial on the Left. I have and I've found nothing going back years. But it is ingrained on the Right now. You can either care about it or criticise those who point it out. Past experience suggests which way you will go.
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What about Corbyn's lie about his income tax proposal only going to affect 5% of taxpayers?
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That wasn't a lie. It was correct. The income tax proposals in the manifesto WOUKD have only affected the top 5% of earners.
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No, It was a lie.
What about Corbyn's lie about the costing for the WASPI women?
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What about Corbyn's lies on anti-Semitism?
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What lies about costings for the WASPI women? Give us some detail about what lies on objective truth he made.
I'll grant you, it was spectacularly shite politics, but where did he lie?
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Ditto on anti-Semitism. Give me an example of where he lied over an issue where the objective truth is clear and unarguable.
Like, for example, No10 racing off to lie to Kuenssberg and Peston about an aide being assaulted by a Labour supporter outside that hospital two days before the Election. That is a specific allegation, made AFTER the fact and the record shows that the objective truth is that it didn't happen.
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Or like Grant Shapps who ran the briefing today. The man who insisted he wasn't running a get rich quick scam under an alias while he was an MP. And threatened action for libel against a constituent who said he was. And when it turned out he actually was (objective truth) Shapps said he had "been overly firm with his previous denial". And suffered no career effects. THAT is the sort of thing I'm talking about when I say unambiguous lies over matters of established objective truth. Find me some like that on the other side.
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What about Labour's promise to respect the referendum result?
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What lies about costings for the WASPI women? Give us some detail about what lies on objective truth he made.
I'll grant you, it was spectacularly shite politics, but where did he lie?
He lied about how it would be paid.
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What was the lie?
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And what was the lie about Labour's income tax policy?
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His lie was he said the WASPI money was budgeted for but then admitted it would be paid for by Government reserves and more borrowing.
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One more time. He lied about the income tax rise only affecting 5% of the taxpayers. It would have affected more than 5%.
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McDonnell had said on the very day that they launched the policy that they would pay the WASPI money from reserves and borrowing. What you were seeing in Corbyn was a very poorly prepared politician getting his facts wrong when put under pressure. Something he did repeatedly. Because he was so unused to being questioned. It was a car crash performance, no question.
But OK. Let's assume that was a deliberate attempt to deceive, rather than a second rate mind, out of his depth f**king up his brief. How did the Labour party deal with that? McDonnell made it clear that they would use increased borrowing to fund that pledge.
Now. Compare the Labour party's handling of that one, with the Tory party's handling of the claim that they were funding 40 new hospitals. What did THEY do when it was calmly pointed out to them that they weren't? They went into the Election still insisting that they WERE providing that funding.
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What was the claim on Income Tax and what was the lie?
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he lied about it only affecting 5% of taxpayers when 2million people other than the 5% would be affected by having marriage allowance taken off them.
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OK. Accepted. I was talking about the proposals in the manifesto. The big, first order things.
Context. The Labour party manifesto said that no-one earning less that £80k per year would see their income tax RATES increased. That translated in speeches into no-one outside the top 5% (roughly £80k) would pay more tax. That was stupid and shoddy because, as you say, there was a minor tweak to the married allowance.
That tweak would have resulted in a maximum difference of £1-200million to the total UK tax take. (The maximum loss to a couple earning £63,000 between them would have been £250. Most couples would have lost far less. And Labour, said that their plans to increase Govt spending and hence, the economic output, would have resulted in improved economic performance and wages that would have greatly outweighed this small loss. Which is hard to argue against from a basic macroeconomic standpoint.) But let's ignore the upside. The income tax bill is about £200bn. So yes, this stupidly overinflated claim that wasn't checked was wrong, to the tune of 0.1% of the income tax bill.
Call that a lie is you insist. And then consider what Corbyn's response was when confronted by it, by Andrew Neill in front of the nation (that's the Andrew Neill that Johnson repeatedly said he was happy to face..and then didn't face after all the other leaders had). Corbyn admitted, live on TV, that the claim was wrong. He didn't go into the Election still trumpeting that claim.
Do you see a trend emerging here? There ARE mistakes by political parties. Labour in 2019 especially ran a f**king awful campaign, full of mistakes. The telling thing is how they respond when they are pulled up.
Did anyone from No 10 apologise on national TV for their...let's call it a mistake....over the hospital assault that hit the news headlines two days before polling day? Did anyone apologise for the 40 hospitals claim? Did Johnson apologise for the £350m claim? Or the claim that 80 million Turks were about to get the EU nod to come and live next door to you?
Ever? Once?
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I’ve just booked you two a room at The Earl. I think you need to thrash it out with a selection of butt plugs, lube and poppers as I’m sensing a sexual attraction that neither of you will admit to.
It’s booked under Billy Bullet- let us know how you get on!
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Knockers. In fear of being 'gayist' I couldn't take up your proposal, although the thought of using a butt plug on him is very tempting if only to stick in his gob. Apart from the lack of sexual attraction (on my part at least), I couldn't spend even a platonic night with someone who would never admit to being wrong, knowing full well that I would if I ever was.
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it's a bit early bb?
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Maybe he’s going to take part in the Dorset “Knob eating” contest this year.?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-52571038 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-52571038)
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I’ve just booked you two a room at The Earl. I think you need to thrash it out with a selection of butt plugs, lube and poppers as I’m sensing a sexual attraction that neither of you will admit to.
It’s booked under Billy Bullet- let us know how you get on!
Come on, have you seen BST's avatar?
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a classic ' whaboutery' diversion there.
as if the current stream of lies from the person whose was sacked from his first job for lieing could possibly be compared to Jeremy Corbyn or indeed,have any relevance.