Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: BillyStubbsTears on July 21, 2020, 12:42:32 pm
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So NOW we see what the scandal is that Johnson was so keen to hush up before the Election.
It's that the spy services basically did not investigate the actions of Russia in undermining our democratic processes.
Nothing but the most cursory of investigations. MI5, when asked for their opinions on Russian interference by the writers of the report gave six lines of text as a response. SIX LINES!
And yet...in late 2016, the then head of MI6 made a public speech in which he set out in detail the threat that hostile state actors were posing to our elections. He was crying out for us to take it seriously.
So. Why on earth was there not a more detailed and thorough investigation at the time that Johnson was first Foreign Secretary, then Prime Minister? If the security services were aware of the threat, what stopped them investigating?
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Relased before the election it would have been difficult to head off a detailed investigation. We are unlikely to find out now.
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The more you think about this, the more astonishing it becomes.
https://mobile.twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/1285546799453921286
As Rifkind says there, all the circumstantial evidence and no-one at the top of the security services says "Best have a shufty at this."
It just beggars belief that they wouldn't look into this. Even if it turned out that there was no substance to the stories.
So why the hell didn't they? Who decided not to look into this?
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Regarding Russian influence in the 2016 referendum, despite all the circumstantial evidence, no-one in Govt or the Security Services has investigated this.
The Russia Report says:
"Whilst the issues at stake in the EU referendum campaign are less clear-cut, it is nonetheless the committee’s view that the UK intelligence and security community should produce an analogous assessment of potential Russian interference in the EU referendum and that an unclassified summary of it be published."
And this is the official Govt reponse:
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"We have seen no evidence of successful interference in the EU referendum.
The intelligence and security agencies produce and contribute to regular assessments of the threat posed by hostile state activity, including around potential interference in UK democratic processes. We keep such assessments under review and, where necessary, update them in response to new intelligence, including during democratic events such as elections and referendums. Where new information emerges, the government will always consider the most appropriate use of any intelligence it develops or receives, including whether it is appropriate to make this public. Given this long standing approach, a retrospective assessment of the EU referendum is not necessary."
Just breathtaking. Simply breathtaking. The Govt and security services chose not to investigate Russian interference in Brexit. And, whaddya know? They found no evidence. And they use the fact that they found no evidence to justify rejecting a call from the body tasked with holding them to task to investigate!
I've seen some contemptuous cheek in politics over the years, but this truly beats anything. I'm sure the usual suspects on here will be able to concoct a defence of it though.
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In my opinion the actions or in this case the non actions of Government Ministers is Treasonous
Can the Queen dissolve Parliament?
If she can and she does n’t she is also complicit in this treacherous act of Treason
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Boris is and has been up to his neck in Russian money. Playing tennis for donations from Oligarchs is probably the tip of the iceberg.
He doesn't want this investigating for very good reasons.
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Number 10 spox: "We haven't seen any evidence of successful interference in EU referendum."
Journalist: "Nor have you looked for any. The whole point is nobody has looked. The question is why haven't you looked, then you can answer that question in a more convincing manner."
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1285568140190130176
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Today's watershed ISC #RussiaReport confirms an alarming truth: Conservative Governments past and present have failed to take the Russian threat to our democracy seriously, despite clear evidence they were already interfering to help Donald Trump to the presidency in 2016
The first duty of government is to protect its citizens. The Conservatives have been asleep at their post in failing to conduct an assessment of interference in the EU referendum. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, especially when you don't look for the evidence
Protecting our democracy should never come second to the Tories protecting their embarrassing links to Russian oligarchs before an election. Given what has come to light, Boris Johnson should think again about who he takes money from and gives influence to.
https://twitter.com/amcarmichaelMP/status/1285533248022548480
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The more I think about this, the more I can see why Johnson wanted it buried.
It is simply scandalous that there is strong evidence of Russian action to undermine our democratic processes, and while the Americans have been having root and branch investigations, we have done precisely zero. This is an abdication of responsibility by the Govt of huge scale.
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Bit isn't this report only for public consumption and there is a more detailed report thst wil not be released? Just something I heard on the Beeb this morning
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The more I think about this, the more I can see why Johnson wanted it buried.
It is simply scandalous that there is strong evidence of Russian action to undermine our democratic processes, and while the Americans have been having root and branch investigations, we have done precisely zero. This is an abdication of responsibility by the Govt of huge scale.
With an 80 seat majority and unless some of the nodding dog Tory MP’s suddenly find some sort of moral duty, it will be just ignored like every other scandal they have been involved with, after this there must be some legal procedure created to remove a Government that colludes with a hostile state
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It is at best odd that nothing has been done about this. I haven't read up on it but it's obvious to most people that Russians involve theirselves (and let's be honest so does our country in other areas). Being transparent on this does them zero political harm unless.....
Russia's aim is to cause as much chaos as possible, nothing more or less than that. We saw it with the so called trade talks leak and no doubt countless other things. The only side Russia has is russia, they'll just cause as much chaos as they can. We shouldn't fear it, but equally we should not ignore it.
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An equivalent to the logic of Johnson's position on the Russia Report.
I eat 17 bacon sandwiches and drink a gallon of beer a day.
I refuse to get on the weighing scales or measure my waist.
I have seen no evidence that I am putting on weight and will therefore not consider what effect my diet may be having.
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BFYP
I entirely agree that we shouldn't ignore Russia's actions.
But the Govt HAS ignored it. Totally. For four years. In fact, it has actively chosen not to look at what Russia is doing. Don't you find that rather concerning?
To me, it screams out, "Why on earth would any reasonable UK Govt EVER actively choose to look the other way when there was ample evidence that a hostile state actor was trying to undermine our democratic processes?"
This isn't a common or garden minor Govt scandal. This is about the very foundations of democracy.
What could be a bigger responsibility for a Govt than to ensure that the democratic process is secure?
Or more to the point, what does Johnson have to hide that means he is prepared to turn a blind eye to Russian interference? Ask THAT question in the context of why he so ham fistedly tried to block the release of this report and all sorts of ideas start bubbling up.
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Bit isn't this report only for public consumption and there is a more detailed report thst wil not be released? Just something I heard on the Beeb this morning
That's the appendix to the report.
Based on Bill Browder's evidence to the committee it apparently names the individuals who have been laundering and recieving Russian oligarch money.
Loads of info on his twitter link
https://twitter.com/Billbrowder?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
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Ex-Security Advisor to the PM on R4 this morning, asked why the Govt didn't investigate Russian interference in the Brexit referendum.
He said his best guess was that the Govt wanted to get on with implementing the result of the vote rather than dig into that issue.
Just re-read that a couple of times and think about what it means.
I'd appreciate the thoughts of those who have spent the past 4 years aggressively accusing anyone who has discussed this point of having contempt for democracy. For some reason, they've kept schtum for the past 24 hours.
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Shapps on R4 this morning.
Started off pushing the line that the Govt had seen no evidence of Russian interference in the Brexit vote, so there was no need to investigate it. Had to be pulled up repeatedly by the interviewer on the fact that the reason the Govt had no evidence was that it had specifically chosen not to look for it.
Shapps then changed tack to "Oh I think the UK electorate is far too sophisticated to be misled by nefarious messages".
Like something straight out of a Yes Minister script.
While we are on the topic of right wing politicians treating their supporters are too f**king thick to see the wood for the trees, here's another one claiming that the Russia Report exonerates everyone.
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1285465528677675008
Your choice folks whether you continue to support them while they treat you like this.
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After todays PMQ’s the only sensible conclusion any sane person can come to regarding Johnson is he has n’t got a clue and answers to any question asked, just sarcastic soundbites after Starmer showed him his arse yet again
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Filo
Johnson is an embarrassment at PMQs. Starmer asks important questions related to issues of the highest importance for the country, and Johnson puts on his faux-outrage persona to throw pre-prepared insults back.
To anyone watching, it looks like a serious politician seriously dealing with serious issues, against a reality-TV clown. The problem is, when Johnson's soundbites are packaged up and spoonfed to people who don't do detail...
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It's quite something to observe.
The very man who refused to investigate Russian interference in the Brexit vote is actually there, stood up in Parliament using the line that they have not found any evidence of Russian meddling in the Brexit vote to justify not having an investigation into Russian meddling in the Brexit vote!
https://mobile.twitter.com/BenPBradshaw/status/1285901949662121985
That's politics in 2021. And still not a dickie bird in here from any of the people who have spent 4 years screaming that criticism of the Brexit vote is an outrage against democracy. Surely some of you have opinions on this?
A cross-party group of MPs with experience of security issues has presented a report which clearly and unambiguously says that there should be an investigation. The report was released by a Chairman who is one of THE most trenchant Leave supporters. How in God's name can an honest PM not action that recommendation, and instead say it's some Remainer plot? What on earth could possibly be more important?
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Filo
Johnson is an embarrassment at PMQs. Starmer asks important questions related to issues of the highest importance for the country, and Johnson puts on his faux-outrage persona to throw pre-prepared insults back.
To anyone watching, it looks like a serious politician seriously dealing with serious issues, against a reality-TV clown. The problem is, when Johnson's soundbites are packaged up and spoonfed to people who don't do detail...
If this were a Labour PM dealing with threats to our National Security, I would be outraged and demand he resign if he acted like that, anyone who is not concerned over the findings of this report really should n’t be allowed to vote. In my opinion successive Tory PM’s and Governments have committed Treason!
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I fully agree Filo.
This truly is looking like the biggest security scandal since the War. It's a Govt being told that hostile state actions are happening and CHOOSING not to investigate it, presumably because the investigation would be personally or politically embarrassing.
This MUST NOT be allowed to fade away.
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It's quite something to observe.
The very man who refused to investigate Russian interference in the Brexit vote is actually there, stood up in Parliament using the line that they have not found any evidence of Russian meddling in the Brexit vote to justify not having an investigation into Russian meddling in the Brexit vote!
https://mobile.twitter.com/BenPBradshaw/status/1285901949662121985
That's politics in 2021. And still not a dickie bird in here from any of the people who have spent 4 years screaming that criticism of the Brexit vote is an outrage against democracy. Surely some of you have opinions on this?
A cross-party group of MPs with experience of security issues has presented a report which clearly and unambiguously says that there should be an investigation. The report was released by a Chairman who is one of THE most trenchant Leave supporters. How in God's name can an honest PM not action that recommendation, and instead say it's some Remainer plot? What on earth could possibly be more important?
Here's an odd thing. Andy Wigmore, Arron Banks's fag, has responded to Ben Bradshaw's question in Parliament by threatening him with legal action if he repeats his accusations against him and Banks outside Parliamentary privilege.
https://twitter.com/andywigmore/status/1285969145327165441
Only...hang on. Bradshaw didn't mention Wigmore. Or Banks.
Guilty conscience perhaps?
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Meanwhile, at PMQs, as a way of deflecting criticism about his own issues with Russia, Johnson launched into a rant about how Starmer had sat on his hands and not criticised Russia when the Novichok attack happened.
This was Starmer over the Salisbury incident.
https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/974418573878747137
But yeah. They are all the same aren't they?
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None of this surprises me unfortunately. What does is that people voted for a no deal brexit by voting for him. I just don't get it. P.s. My beliefs actually have me as a tory but I just can't trust any of these slimey toads as far as I can throw them
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What Bradshaw actually asked is this:
Isn't it true that this is a Prime Minister who has knowingly and repeatedly put his personal and party interests before the national security of our country?
https://twitter.com/BenPBradshaw/status/1285901949662121985
Well isn't it?
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And more from PMQs. Johnson repeatedly came out with the pre-prepared line that Britain led the world in the way it dealt with the threat from Russia.
Compare that with what the cross-party ICS said in the Russia Report about their incredulity that the Govt had not even investigated Russian interference in our elections and choose for yourselves if you have so little self-respect that you will choose to support a PM who has so little regard for your intelligence thathe can't even be arsed to come up with a line that survives a microsecond of scrutiny.
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None of this surprises me unfortunately. What does is that people voted for a no deal brexit by voting for him. I just don't get it. P.s. My beliefs actually have me as a tory but I just can't trust any of these slimey toads as far as I can throw them
Respect GL.
But it's more than sliminess. This issue is genuinely frightening. This is about whether we care enough to prevent our democracy being undermined.
Democracies don't have a God-given right to exist. It requires constant vigilance and effort to keep democratic societies fair, open and honest. The fact that we have a Govt that is deliberately choosing to ignore a mass of evidence on how our democratic processes have been attacked by a hostile state [1] should scare everyone, regardless of their political beliefs. There are some things which transcend party politics. This is happening in plain sight. They only get away with it if enough people choose to say "ahh, f**k it...who cares?"
[1] I'm having to pinch myself every time I write that. Because it is so difficult to believe. It is a pretty much nailed on certainty that Russia is actively subverting our elections, and our Government is choosing to ignore it. Did any of you ever think you would see the day that something like this would happen?
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I’m so disgusted in this I have written to my MP urging him to let it drop And put the neighbouring Don Valley MP on the spot as to where his principles lie, National Security? Or Party Lines?
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None of this surprises me unfortunately. What does is that people voted for a no deal brexit by voting for him. I just don't get it. P.s. My beliefs actually have me as a tory but I just can't trust any of these slimey toads as far as I can throw them
Respect GL.
But it's more than sliminess. This issue is genuinely frightening. This is about whether we care enough to prevent our democracy being undermined.
Democracies don't have a God-given right to exist. It requires constant vigilance and effort to keep democratic societies fair, open and honest. The fact that we have a Govt that is deliberately choosing to ignore a mass of evidence on how our democratic processes have been attacked by a hostile state [1] should scare everyone, regardless of their political beliefs. There are some things which transcend party politics. This is happening in plain sight. They only get away with it if enough people choose to say "ahh, f**k it...who cares?"
[1] I'm having to pinch myself every time I write that. Because it is so difficult to believe. It is a pretty much nailed on certainty that Russia is actively subverting our elections, and our Government is choosing to ignore it. Did any of you ever think you would see the day that something like this would happen?
I don't think that this government is choosing to ignore it BST, rather that they are choosing to benefit from it!
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That left wing rag the Times today
''The conservative party’s finances came under renwed scrutiny last night as it emerged the two of its MPs on the intelligence watchdog committee and 14 ministers had accepted donations linked to Russia. Electoral Commission records show that six members of the cabinet and eight junior ministers received tens of thousands of pounds from individuals with links to Russia. The donations were made to them or their constituency parties''
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Now we know why those two were put forward.
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By the way. Did you see the way those Kitsons at Leave.EU announced the findings of the Russia Report?
https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1285578820238610433
Once again, assuming (maybe correctly, who knows? they must have SOME reason for doing it) that the people they have targeted for years are too f**king idle or thick to process information for themselves. So they pour this sort of 100%, unarguable lying bullshit at them.
Shouldn't need repeating, but the Russia Report did NOT say there was no Russian interference. It said the Govt had not looked for evidence of it, and so had not uncovered evidence of it. It said there was a welter of evidence of Russian interference from other sources.
But Leave.EU doesn't want people to know what the report actually said. It wants them to snaffle up the lying interpretation they put on it.
Those of you who were swayed by Farage...why do you think he lies to you like this? And is there ANYTHING he could ever lie about that would make you question his motives?