Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Colemans Left Hook on October 29, 2020, 04:01:46 pm
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54730425
and the brother isn't "much better"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8872537/Piers-Corbyn-announces-hell-drink-against-curfew-rally-arrives-court.html
just imagine if the former was P M now :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide:
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So many people slate the tories and probably rightly so, but out of the last 4 labour leaders 1 took us into a illegal war and 1 is suspended yet there are hundreds of pages slagging the tories.
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Corbyn was the best that happened to the Conservative party at the last election
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So many people slate the tories and probably rightly so, but out of the last 4 labour leaders 1 took us into a illegal war and 1 is suspended yet there are hundreds of pages slagging the tories.
Is that the illegal war backed by both sides in the HOC? There are more dodgy cabinet ministers in this government than in any government in history with absolutely no accountability whatsoever. Contracts given to none existant companies, contracts for PPE that doesnt work, ferry companies who did not exist. A track and trace that is at best poor. But don't worry we still have 2 days left to Operation moonshot. Are you sure this isn't a new series of Monty Python?
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Did he tell the hoc there was no imminent threat by saddam?
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Did he tell the hoc there was no imminent threat by saddam?
Was that the information he was given?
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According to the chilcot enquiry
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According to the chilcot enquiry
Talking of enquiries. What happened to the Priti Patel bullying and Russian interference in the GE ones?
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Love how Blackpool goes quiet when challenged. :laugh:
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So many people slate the tories and probably rightly so, but out of the last 4 labour leaders 1 took us into a illegal war and 1 is suspended yet there are hundreds of pages slagging the tories.
I suppose it is the crazy voting system we have and which people will have seen me mention before BUT at the last GE the current Govt got just 43% of the votes cast and yet are free to implement any Policies / Bills they see fit withan untouchable 80 Seat majority
Only 66 per cent (a bit lower actually) voted and the other third did not or could not vote - a lot saying "my vote is meaningless"
Tories had 1394108 Votes cast for them and the next 2 Parties numerically (Labour Lib Dems) had 13,967,696 between them and we can and do discuss everything each major Party does or does not do and has and hasnt done and I am not surprised given those bare stats that we The Forum we the Media we Doncaster we South Yorkshire and we the Country are split asunder. Ignoring the other votes cast half of us want Tory Govt and half of us dont. So I dont think it is surprising that all the above splits exist
I have ignored the rest of the results where of course the DUP might add their 244,147 voters voices to any debate across the UK and similarly the SNP whose 1,242,380 votes might be anti Tory and as you see thats a further 1 Million voters who didnt want the Tories and probably lots didnt want Labour either
I realise this is a simple mans simplistic view but wherever you look - the Referendum for example also produced a result also close to 50 50 as makes no difference except the 52 48 ish took us as the UK out of the EU AND I would expect the 48% would have something to say and that is proven wherever you look
The voting system is not going to change and neither will peoples views if they voted against something or someone they are not just going to shut up and say nowt - they WILL protest and try to change the outcome next time round surely ?
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So many people slate the tories and probably rightly so, but out of the last 4 labour leaders 1 took us into a illegal war and 1 is suspended yet there are hundreds of pages slagging the tories.
I suppose it is the crazy voting system we have and which people will have seen me mention before BUT at the last GE the current Govt got just 43% of the votes cast and yet are free to implement any Policies / Bills they see fit withan untouchable 80 Seat majority
Only 66 per cent (a bit lower actually) voted and the other third did not or could not vote - a lot saying "my vote is meaningless"
Tories had 1394108 Votes cast for them and the next 2 Parties numerically (Labour Lib Dems) had 13,967,696 between them and we can and do discuss everything each major Party does or does not do and has and hasnt done and I am not surprised given those bare stats that we The Forum we the Media we Doncaster we South Yorkshire and we the Country are split asunder. Ignoring the other votes cast half of us want Tory Govt and half of us dont. So I dont think it is surprising that all the above splits exist
I have ignored the rest of the results where of course the DUP might add their 244,147 voters voices to any debate across the UK and similarly the SNP whose 1,242,380 votes might be anti Tory and as you see thats a further 1 Million voters who didnt want the Tories and probably lots didnt want Labour either
I realise this is a simple mans simplistic view but wherever you look - the Referendum for example also produced a result also close to 50 50 as makes no difference except the 52 48 ish took us as the UK out of the EU AND I would expect the 48% would have something to say and that is proven wherever you look
The voting system is not going to change and neither will peoples views if they voted against something or someone they are not just going to shut up and say nowt - they WILL protest and try to change the outcome next time round surely ?
Its the way of the world. In the US the vast majority of the population didn't want Trump. Their system of electing their president is even crazier than ours.
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Donny love your backing of Easy for Dennis when he changes the subject when in the doo doo. obviously Priti is innocent and those bollocked were useless.
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Donny love your backing of Easy for Dennis when he changes the subject when in the doo doo. obviously Priti is innocent and those bollocked were useless.
I would have thought changing the subject was something you agreed with Selby. After all your mate Doris and his cabinet have turned it into an art form.
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skybet have today cut the odds on
the Manchester mayor being the next labour leader from 11/1 to 8/1
wouldn't for a moment think he got the whip withdrawn "deliberately" to undermine "Sir"
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=278071.0
he has a habit (like others on here !!!) of living in his own world.
"Returning to the UK in 1971, he worked as an official for the National Union of Tailors and Garment Workers.[40] Corbyn began a course in Trade Union Studies at North London Polytechnic but left after a year without a degree after a series of arguments with his tutors over the curriculum"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn
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So many people slate the tories and probably rightly so, but out of the last 4 labour leaders 1 took us into a illegal war and 1 is suspended yet there are hundreds of pages slagging the tories.
Ok here we go again.
The current government has royally f**ked up brexit - regardless of how individuals voted, they aren’t doing very well.
Their handling of the pandemic turned into a clusterf**k quicker than they reacted to the virus. It continues to be so.
Which party is in government now.?
Which party therefore is currently subject to most criticism.?
You do the math.!!
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Love how Blackpool goes quiet whhen challenged. :laugh:
challenged about what? How am I meant to know when the enquiry is? It’s a stupid question really don’t you think? And as the thread is about corbyn not Patel maybe talk about that?
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So many people slate the tories and probably rightly so, but out of the last 4 labour leaders 1 took us into a illegal war and 1 is suspended yet there are hundreds of pages slagging the tories.
Ok here we go again.
The current government has royally f**ked up brexit - regardless of how individuals voted, they aren’t doing very well.
Their handling of the pandemic turned into a clusterf**k quicker than they reacted to the virus. It continues to be so.
Which party is in government now.?
Which party therefore is currently subject to most criticism.?
You do the math.!!
I have said people are probably right for slating the tories, what gets me is someone mentions issues with the Labour Party and there is no discussion or anything all that happens is the thread gets taken over by continuing to slate the tories lol
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You mean Labour as it was under Corbyn.?
They got their slating last December.!
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So many people slate the tories and probably rightly so, but out of the last 4 labour leaders 1 took us into a illegal war and 1 is suspended yet there are hundreds of pages slagging the tories.
Ok here we go again.
The current government has royally f**ked up brexit - regardless of how individuals voted, they aren’t doing very well.
Their handling of the pandemic turned into a clusterf**k quicker than they reacted to the virus. It continues to be so.
Which party is in government now.?
Which party therefore is currently subject to most criticism.?
You do the math.!!
I have said people are probably right for slating the tories, what gets me is someone mentions issues with the Labour Party and there is no discussion or anything all that happens is the thread gets taken over by continuing to slate the tories lol
I did (what I thought) was a decent reeply to this point in Reply #9 above but I suppose answering in a different way people who have a beef / gripe / complaint with a Pub / Cafe / Restaurant are the ones who dive on Tripadvisor generally and complain the most
So I believe its the same here - at the moment it is the Tories that people are griping about because they are in power - and from my earlier reply more (nay lots more) people did not vote for them than actually did somewhere around 4 million more (cant be bothered to count exactly) - and they are the people who will complain the most - as sure as if they had ordered a Steak well done and it came as pink as hell
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More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.
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So many people slate the tories and probably rightly so, but out of the last 4 labour leaders 1 took us into a illegal war and 1 is suspended yet there are hundreds of pages slagging the tories.
Classic whataboutery yet again, it’s about the here and now, not the past
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So many people slate the tories and probably rightly so, but out of the last 4 labour leaders 1 took us into a illegal war and 1 is suspended yet there are hundreds of pages slagging the tories.
Classic whataboutery yet again, it’s about the here and now, not the past
....But if I was up to Labour voters, the situation would be here and now.
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More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.
None of the usual suspects have mentioned that BB.
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The sun came up this morning. I haven't seen anyone mention that in this discussion.
Some things are so bleeding obvious, they are taken as axiomatic.
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You wouldn’t believe that to be true though BST when people are consistently saying that our electoral system is wrong and that the Tories only received ?% (fill in as appropriate) of the national vote.
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Hound.
Several things can be true simultaneously.
In the 2019 election:
1) More people voted Tory than for any other single party.
2) More people voted for left/centre-left parties than voted for right wing parties.
3) More people voted for parties that opposed Brexit than voted for parties that supported Brexit.
Yet here we are. A very right wing Govt and Brexit.
Funny thing, democracy, int it?
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Yes it sure is.
However you jumped on my post, which backed up what BB had said.
In simple terms the statement made by BB is correct isn’t it.
The other things you mentioned in your points 2 and 3 are not relevant to that statement even though they are correct.
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Hound.
A) The Tories won more votes than any other party in 2019.
B) Our electoral system is wrong.
Both those statements are correct in my opinion. A) doesn't really need saying because it is bleeding obvious. Like the statement that the sun came up this morning.
B) requires substantiating. Which is why I noted points 2 and 3 in the earlier post.
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More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.
Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!
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More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.
Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!
So that is two people now who are picking up on a true posting and changing it into something else.
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I like the way you add up all the parties votes to get a majority for them that never voted Tory in the election and automatically assume none would have voted for Brexit. and still will not accept the referendum vote which was a straight yes no vote on Brexit and blame all them that didn't vote.
Hilarious, poor losers or what? and still looking at the systems and trying to change it, brilliant.
Like banging your heads against a brick wall.
I can't wait until you see the new constituency boundaries in London and the South East that will be put in place before the next general election.
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Selby.
You need to practice your reading.
I didn't say anything about what individual voters believe.
It is an established fact that in 2019, a majority of voters voted for parties whose policy was either to cancel Brexit or to hold a second referendum.
That's all I said.
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More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.
Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!
So that is two people now who are picking up on a true posting and changing it into something else.
Not changing it into something else at all, hound. Making an equally true and equally valid statement, that's all.
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You can check for yourself. Among major parties, these supported Brexit
Tory
BP
UKIP
DUP
UUP
Total vote share: 46.8%
These wanted to cancel Brexit or have a second ref.
Lab
LD
SNP
PC
Green
Sinn Fein
SDLP
Alliance
Total vote share 52.3%
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More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.
Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!
So that is two people now who are picking up on a true posting and changing it into something else.
Not changing it into something else at all, hound. Making an equally true and equally valid statement, that's all.
Debatable pies.
E4D began his post with “yes but” which indicates he was changing the point.
Whatever, nearly football time.
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Yeah but, no but, yeah but, no but...........
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EFD
Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!
Can you tell me when a Labour government had more votes than the total of votes for other parties ?
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EFD
Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!
Can you tell me when a Labour government had more votes than the total of votes for other parties ?
I think this just illustrates further that our electoral system isn't really fit for purpose.
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I don’t think Labour supporters complained about it when they last won.
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Possibly Janso but can you see a governing Tory or Labour party voting to change to some form of proportional representation leading to a probable outcome of coalition governments.
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I don’t think Labour supporters complained about it when they last won.
I've repeatedly commented on how unjust it was that Blair got a 191 seat majority with 43% of the vote. It is deeply undemocratic, and gave Blair effectively unfettered power. And we know where that led.
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More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.
Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!
So that is two people now who are picking up on a true posting and changing it into something else.
Not changing it into something else at all, hound. Making an equally true and equally valid statement, that's all.
Debatable pies.
E4D began his post with “yes but” which indicates he was changing the point.
Whatever, nearly football time.
You seem to be having problems reading and understanding.
How would you have answered the statement. More people voted for the Tory party than any other party. When the number of votes for other parties was greater than those for the Tory party?
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More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.
Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!
So that is two people now who are picking up on a true posting and changing it into something else.
Not changing it into something else at all, hound. Making an equally true and equally valid statement, that's all.
Debatable pies.
E4D began his post with “yes but” which indicates he was changing the point.
Whatever, nearly football time.
You seem to be having problems reading and understanding.
How would you have answered the statement. More people voted for the Tory party than any other party. When the number of votes for other parties was greater than those for the Tory party?
You keep expanding on the original post.
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More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.
Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!
So that is two people now who are picking up on a true posting and changing it into something else.
Not changing it into something else at all, hound. Making an equally true and equally valid statement, that's all.
Debatable pies.
E4D began his post with “yes but” which indicates he was changing the point.
Whatever, nearly football time.
You seem to be having problems reading and understanding.
How would you have answered the statement. More people voted for the Tory party than any other party. When the number of votes for other parties was greater than those for the Tory party?
It's a false statement!
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Hound.
Several things can be true simultaneously.
In the 2019 election:
1) More people voted Tory than for any other single party.
2) More people voted for left/centre-left parties than voted for right wing parties.
3) More people voted for parties that opposed Brexit than voted for parties that supported Brexit.
Yet here we are. A very right wing Govt and Brexit.
Funny thing, democracy, int it?
Surly 1 and 3 are the same
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More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.
Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!
So that is two people now who are picking up on a true posting and changing it into something else.
Not changing it into something else at all, hound. Making an equally true and equally valid statement, that's all.
Debatable pies.
E4D began his post with “yes but” which indicates he was changing the point.
Whatever, nearly football time.
You seem to be having problems reading and understanding.
How would you have answered the statement. More people voted for the Tory party than any other party. When the number of votes for other parties was greater than those for the Tory party?
It's a false statement!
So if you take it to the logical conclusion. Most people didn't vote for a Tory government.
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More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.
When people vote for the man of the match after a football game, for instance, the majority of people will more than likely have a different choice to the player that won it. Therefore you could say that more people voted against the winner. Does that mean the player with the most votes isn't a worthy winner?
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I don’t think Labour supporters complained about it when they last won.
I DID
Caroline Flint now my ex MP of course came to where I worked and I was talking to her as we waited for a third party to arrive - she said can you do me a favour while we wait and I said as long as you do me one
What's that she said - Well I replied please comgratulate Tony Blair on winning the Election and tell him to Govern as long as possible BUT THEN just as he is running out of steam get him to introduce PR and it will be a fairer system for us all - and #makevotesmatter - that last bit didnt exist of course at that time
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I have of course triggered this devisive "split" again with what I thought was a simple but valid reply to blackpoolrover
He asked with Blair taking us into an illegal war and Corbyn being suspended why do people still slag off the Tories
(you can see his actual question in Reply #1 above)
I replied though its long that basically and numerically the Tories got x votes + a few more votes on their side whilst lots more people around 4 million I think it is did not vote for them and SO (in my opinion ONLY) they are bound to get slagged off because statistically there are many more people who did not vote for them than did vote for them
My full reply was Reply #9 - and I added a further bit which was shorter in Reply #18So I suppose (having a third and last go) to answer HIS question . The Tories are having pages devoted to slagging them BUT why when Labour have been crap in the past does nobody mention it ?My answer - nearly 4 million people more electors that did not vote for them than actually DID vote for them so there are a lots of miffed people out there lets say from GE 57% * and actually another group that might be miffed but it is impossible to be precise ** (so I wont)* 57% of the Electorate did not vote for the Conservatives but I would say that could be reduced a few % points as votes went to the DUP so call it 55%** Non voters are a group and a massive group who might also be miffed with the Tories with Labour with the Lib Dems. Just about 33% of people did not vote and they may be contributing to the anti Tory posts and protests but they had their chanceTo give perspective here is what happened in Johnsons own Seat
Take Boris Johnson's constituency of Uxbridge and South Ruislip (https://tinyurl.com/yx8276dh), for example: 23,716 people voted for him in 2017, giving him a majority of 5,034. However, 22,798 voters on the electoral register didn't turn out at all. That means he has a theoretical majority of just 918 over those who didn't vote.Thats a lot of "potential" pent up voter apathy - BUT I use the word "potentially" because (like the man in the Aviva advert) - I dont know - NOBODY knows
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I don’t think Labour supporters complained about it when they last won.
I DID
Caroline Flint now my ex MP of course came to where I worked and I was talking to her as we waited for a third party to arrive - she said can you do me a favour while we wait and I said as long as you do me one
What's that she said - Well I replied please comgratulate Tony Blair on winning the Election and tell him to Govern as long as possible BUT THEN just as he is running out of steam get him to introduce PR and it will be a fairer system for us all - and #makevotesmatter - that last bit didnt exist of course at that time
I knew that you would come back with that response mate.
It is something that you totally believe in.
I don't think any others among our Labour fans grumbled though.
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More people voted for the Tory party than any other party.
Yes but the combined votes of people who voted for all the other parties totalled more than who voted for the Tory party!!
So that is two people now who are picking up on a true posting and changing it into something else.
Not changing it into something else at all, hound. Making an equally true and equally valid statement, that's all.
Debatable pies.
E4D began his post with “yes but” which indicates he was changing the point.
Whatever, nearly football time.
You seem to be having problems reading and understanding.
How would you have answered the statement. More people voted for the Tory party than any other party. When the number of votes for other parties was greater than those for the Tory party?
It's a false statement!
So if you take it to the logical conclusion. Most people didn't vote for a Tory government.
No one was arguing that wasn't true though.
You began the disagreement over the statement that BB made, which was true.
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I don’t think Labour supporters complained about it when they last won.
I DID
Caroline Flint now my ex MP of course came to where I worked and I was talking to her as we waited for a third party to arrive - she said can you do me a favour while we wait and I said as long as you do me one
What's that she said - Well I replied please comgratulate Tony Blair on winning the Election and tell him to Govern as long as possible BUT THEN just as he is running out of steam get him to introduce PR and it will be a fairer system for us all - and #makevotesmatter - that last bit didnt exist of course at that time
I knew that you would come back with that response mate.
It is something that you totally believe in.
I don't think any others among our Labour fans grumbled though.
I said precisely the same thing at the time and since. I've been a supporter of proper PR for 30 years. Even though I fully accept it would mean Labour would never again rule on its own.
I've said for years that Blair made a historic mistake in not ramming through PR in his first term.
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He did - it was probably the last best chance unless all current Opposition Parties "band together" next Election and stand on that premise.
If they win which in theory they should they can then hold a Referendum to test the mood of the nation (even though they would have have a mandate already) - just to absoutely ensure people wanted PR (in some form or another)
Then they could revert to ideologocal type and we would have a Government fit for the people of a modern democracy "forever more" AMEN
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54730425
and the brother isn't "much better"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8872537/Piers-Corbyn-announces-hell-drink-against-curfew-rally-arrives-court.html
just imagine if the former was P M now :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide:
Out of curiosity what exactly do you imagine would be happening now if Corbyn was PM?
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54730425
and the brother isn't "much better"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8872537/Piers-Corbyn-announces-hell-drink-against-curfew-rally-arrives-court.html
just imagine if the former was P M now :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide:
Out of curiosity what exactly do you imagine would be happening now if Corbyn was PM?
Sorry to cut in but I think things would be much the same as they are now.