Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: BillyStubbsTears on December 05, 2020, 08:43:47 pm
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Starting to take shape.
Three clubs at the top, Hull, Lincoln and Accrington, all averaging more than 2 ppg.
Then a group of 5 (Ipswich, Charlton, Peterborough, Portsmouth, Donny) within a gnat's chuff of each other, averaging between 1.71-1.81. We are at the bottom of that group, but for perspective, if we'd not conceded the last minute goal Vs MK Dons, we would be top of it.
Then it drops off quickly.
Sunderland are next, 0.11 ppg behind us.
Then Gillingham, 0.18 behind
Blackpool, 0.24 then Fleetwood 0.27, Wimbledon 0.38 and Plymouth 0.44.
That's some gap starting to open up. Fleetwood for example, are picking up points at a rate that would result in a 12-13 point shortfall on us over a full season, even though they are only two places behind us in the table. That's a big change in form required to turn that round.
Given our tough set of fixtures so far (we have only played 2 out of the bottom 7 but have played 5 of the top 7) I'm pretty chuffed to be on 1.71 ppg. Need to cement that now, with a run of games against teams in the bottom half.
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Great bit of info, Billy, and I would add that if you consider the absolute joke result at Wigan, where we should have been out of sight at half time, we would be nigh on the 2 points per game average.
The words from our Barnsley poster, Tyke, are ringing in my ears right now. He said if we could keep on the top 6 shirt tails by Christmas, we would be in great shape, with a very young side that can only improve with time, to make a charge in the New Year.
BUT, we have to have:
a) a bit more luck with injuries, and
b) a decent bit of business in January, if at all possible.
One last comment - in the games so far we’ve hit some sort of form in a minority of games. Some improvement in consistency will see us in a very good place later in the season.
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A lot of whataboutery there.
Consider also the last minute goals we have scored too.
Without them where would we be in the hypothetical ppg league table.
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Fat ladies and singing come to mind, Hound. You are allowed to score until the ref blows for time. To me, our late goals show that we have a bit of resilience in the team - a nice thing to have.
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Fat ladies and singing come to mind, Hound. You are allowed to score until the ref blows for time. To me, our late goals show that we have a bit of resilience in the team - a nice thing to have.
Alan, I totally agree with that.
I was just adding balance to the post saying where we would have been had we not conceded a last minute goal.
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A lot of whataboutery there.
Consider also the last minute goals we have scored too.
Without them where would we be in the hypothetical ppg league table.
We're top of the 2nd half PPG table.
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LoL.
Where are in in the first half ppg table.
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LoL.
Where are in in the first half ppg table.
https://www.soccerstats.com/halftime.asp?league=england3
Just on points were 11th. Not worked out PPG.
Second half is joint first with Lincoln.
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I've been wondering if part of our strategy is to work the legs off opponents in the first half.
The approach of working the ball along the back line and inviting the press requires a hell of a lot of work from opponents. It's not pretty, but several times opponents have ended up flagging in the second half. Several of the Hull players for example were blowing out of their arses after 70 mins on Wednesday and when we equalised, we looked the more likely to go on and win. The snag there of course was that not many sides have a player of the quality of Eaves to chuck on for the last 10 mins and that did for us. But it has worked a number of times this season. Just needs patience.
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Alan, I totally agree with that.
I was just adding balance to the post saying where we would have been had we not conceded a last minute goal.
Apologies, however it’s not what your original post said - it referred to usscoring last minute goals.
I purposely missed all the other ‘ifs, buts & maybe’s’ as every club has that story to tell. The one glaring example, to me, where we’ve thrown 3 points down the drain, was the Wigan game. And, that one result would have made our present ppg right on the cusp of a ‘promotion’ chasing side, at 2 ppg. We’re still not showing consistency, even in a match, and if and when we do, we’re going to threaten the top 6, if not cement our place in it. My only doubts surround injuries and strengthening!
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Alan, I totally agree with that.
I was just adding balance to the post saying where we would have been had we not conceded a last minute goal.
Apologies, however it’s not what your original post said - it referred to usscoring last minute goals.
I purposely missed all the other ‘ifs, buts & maybe’s’ as every club has that story to tell. The one glaring example, to me, where we’ve thrown 3 points down the drain, was the Wigan game. And, that one result would have made our present ppg right on the cusp of a ‘promotion’ chasing side, at 2 ppg. We’re still not showing consistency, even in a match, and if and when we do, we’re going to threaten the top 6, if not cement our place in it. My only doubts surround injuries and strengthening!
Alan, we know each other and I know you are an intelligent bloke.
That makes it more bewildering to me why you don’t appear to understand what I was saying when I wrote about us scoring late goals to gain points.
BST wrote that we would be in a better position had we not conceded a last minute goal against MKD.
I countered by saying that had we not scored late goals ourselves then we would have been in a worse position.
Things balance out over a season and as you rightly say, other teams will say the same thing.
We nicked a point against Sunderland didn’t we with a last minute goal when we didn’t deserve to for example.
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BST was just referencing that goal as an illustration of how close things are:
“We are at the bottom of that group, but for perspective, if we'd not conceded the last minute goal Vs MK Dons, we would be top of it.”
That doesn’t read to me like saying that we should be top of that group or that we’ve been unlucky, just how fine the margins are.
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BST was just referencing that goal as an illustration of how close things are:
“We are at the bottom of that group, but for perspective, if we'd not conceded the last minute goal Vs MK Dons, we would be top of it.”
That doesn’t read to me like saying that we should be top of that group or that we’ve been unlucky, just how fine the margins are.
Good grief.
I was just saying that it works both ways.
Ok, I give in.
BST is always right isn’t he.
Follow the leader.
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Intelligent, or not, my confusion was your two posts seemed contradictory to me. The first one refers to us scoring late goals and the second post refers to us conceding late goals.
Anyway, I apologised for my misunderstanding.
Alzheimer’s must be creeping up on me!
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BST was just referencing that goal as an illustration of how close things are:
“We are at the bottom of that group, but for perspective, if we'd not conceded the last minute goal Vs MK Dons, we would be top of it.”
That doesn’t read to me like saying that we should be top of that group or that we’ve been unlucky, just how fine the margins are.
Good grief.
I was just saying that it works both ways.
Ok, I give in.
BST is always right isn’t he.
Follow the leader.
Bit of an odd (and over-) reaction. I was just commenting that the way I see it, you’re rebutting a point that wasn’t even being made by BST. I could be misinterpreting what he’s saying myself, I don’t think you need to get so defensive about it.
The only leader I follow is my wife when she’s in a mood!
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BST was just referencing that goal as an illustration of how close things are:
“We are at the bottom of that group, but for perspective, if we'd not conceded the last minute goal Vs MK Dons, we would be top of it.”
That doesn’t read to me like saying that we should be top of that group or that we’ve been unlucky, just how fine the margins are.
Good grief.
I was just saying that it works both ways.
Ok, I give in.
BST is always right isn’t he.
Follow the leader.
Bit of an odd (and over-) reaction. I was just commenting that the way I see it, you’re rebutting a point that wasn’t even being made by BST. I could be misinterpreting what he’s saying myself, I don’t think you need to get so defensive about it.
The only leader I follow is my wife when she’s in a mood!
LoL. Mine is in a mood this morning.
Probably why I dived in.
Anyway, the point I made makes sense to me.
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I mentioned this separately. We are now entering a run of 4 home games out of 6 and they are all modest opposition. A full week off until the next game. We have played back in lads like Richards, JJ and proved Butler can last a full 90 mins. I make it we have Taylor perhaps back next week, while Gomes and Tulloch look longer. We are not far off a fully fit squad for this crucial run of games.
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I mentioned this separately. We are now entering a run of 4 home games out of 6 and they are all modest opposition. A full week off until the next game. We have played back in lads like Richards, JJ and proved Butler can last a full 90 mins. I make it we have Taylor perhaps back next week, while Gomes and Tulloch look longer. We are not far off a fully fit squad for this crucial run of games.
Yes it’s a good run of games for the rest of December, but we have Gillingham and Accrington at home and whilst on paper they look straightforward games, these are the two form teams of the division and can’t be taken lightly.
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Alan, I totally agree with that.
I was just adding balance to the post saying where we would have been had we not conceded a last minute goal.
Apologies, however it’s not what your original post said - it referred to usscoring last minute goals.
I purposely missed all the other ‘ifs, buts & maybe’s’ as every club has that story to tell. The one glaring example, to me, where we’ve thrown 3 points down the drain, was the Wigan game. And, that one result would have made our present ppg right on the cusp of a ‘promotion’ chasing side, at 2 ppg. We’re still not showing consistency, even in a match, and if and when we do, we’re going to threaten the top 6, if not cement our place in it. My only doubts surround injuries and strengthening!
Alan, we know each other and I know you are an intelligent bloke.
That makes it more bewildering to me why you don’t appear to understand what I was saying when I wrote about us scoring late goals to gain points.
BST wrote that we would be in a better position had we not conceded a last minute goal against MKD.
I countered by saying that had we not scored late goals ourselves then we would have been in a worse position.
Things balance out over a season and as you rightly say, other teams will say the same thing.
We nicked a point against Sunderland didn’t we with a last minute goal when we didn’t deserve to for example.
I'm with you hound, we can't say our last minute conceded goals cost us the chance of being higher in the table, if we don't also include the last minute goals scored that has had the same effect...
Why don't me scrap all goals scored after 85 mins, to give us a reflection of where we would have been without any late goals scored either way?
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For the record, as Nick has pointed out, I wasn't saying we SHOULD be higher in any league or that any goals are unfair. I was pointing out how closely grouped is the bunch of sides that we are in. Five sides effectively separated by one shot going in as opposed to being saved.
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For what it’s worth, I think this team and squad is good enough to be in the play offs, but nothing more.
It feels less consistent, less cohesive and less attractive than the McCann side. He like Saunders did a very good job from a standing start in developing a side that had a clear and effective style (Saunders had a skeleton squad after relegation and end of experiment, so was effectively starting from scratch).
We have somehow put together a large and talented squad with little cash but as 6 of our best starting XI are not our players does point to the issue here - young and talented but raw and inconsistent.
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That McCann season was bloody good fun. Almost reminiscent of the Penney days.
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Horrible person but the football we played under McCann was very watchable.
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Horrible person but the football we played under McCann was very watchable.
We don’t actually know if he is a horrible person do we. Unless you know him personally of course.
What we do know though is he is a Snake.
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Horrible person but the football we played under McCann was very watchable.
We don’t actually know if he is a horrible person do we. Unless you know him personally of course.
What we do know though is he is a Snake.
So you think snakes are nice? Or are you just looking for an argument?
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For what it’s worth, I think this team and squad is good enough to be in the play offs, but nothing more.
It feels less consistent, less cohesive and less attractive than the McCann side. He like Saunders did a very good job from a standing start in developing a side that had a clear and effective style (Saunders had a skeleton squad after relegation and end of experiment, so was effectively starting from scratch).
We have somehow put together a large and talented squad with little cash but as 6 of our best starting XI are not our players does point to the issue here - young and talented but raw and inconsistent.
Not quite - we can’t have 6 loanees in the match day squad..
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Mccann was a very good manager for us.
He’s not a snake he just went on to a bigger club and a club that had serious ambitions of being in the premier league.
If one of us were manager of Mansfield and Derby county came in for us we would go, it’s a job for them and they obviously want to go as far as they can
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Mccann was a very good manager for us.
He’s not a snake he just went on to a bigger club and a club that had serious ambitions of being in the premier league.
If one of us were manager of Mansfield and Derby county came in for us we would go, it’s a job for them and they obviously want to go as far as they can
I don't think any real football fan would object to anyone going on to try and better themselves. It was the way he did it that left a sour taste and caused the disliking of him
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Horrible person but the football we played under McCann was very watchable.
We don’t actually know if he is a horrible person do we. Unless you know him personally of course.
What we do know though is he is a Snake.
So you think snakes are nice? Or are you just looking for an argument?
Wow. Why am I looking for an argument. I just said we don’t know what he is like as a person that’s all.
Some people have snakes as pets. Not for me though. Yes he did the dirty on us by leaving in the manor he did. Yes he maybe a horrible person. I haven’t a clue.
Looking for an argument? Can i not post anything without being accused of looking for an argument.
This is getting ridiculous, it’s getting personal and not nice. Give it a rest please. Nearly every thing I am posting is being mis interpreted or taken out of context.
If any of you got to know me you will find me one of the least confrontational people you will ever meet.
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Mccann was a very good manager for us.
He’s not a snake he just went on to a bigger club and a club that had serious ambitions of being in the premier league.
If one of us were manager of Mansfield and Derby county came in for us we would go, it’s a job for them and they obviously want to go as far as they can
To be honest Dickos if he wanted to manage in the Premier League Hull City would just about have been the last club in the Championship he should have gone to.
Mansfield to Derby is a much much larger step up than Rovers to Hull imo.
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The players' reactions when McCann left were masterpieces of passive-aggressive point making. It was pretty clear that he didn't leave many find memories behind him.
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Mccann was a very good manager for us.
He’s not a snake he just went on to a bigger club and a club that had serious ambitions of being in the premier league.
If one of us were manager of Mansfield and Derby county came in for us we would go, it’s a job for them and they obviously want to go as far as they can
To be honest Dickos if he wanted to manage in the Premier League Hull City would just about have been the last club in the Championship he should have gone to.
Mansfield to Derby is a much much larger step up than Rovers to Hull imo.
Not really
When he took over they were just outside the playoffs.
The point still stands you’re looking at it as a doncaster supporter and wondering why.
It’s their job they done have any affinity for the club
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Mccann was a very good manager for us.
He’s not a snake he just went on to a bigger club and a club that had serious ambitions of being in the premier league.
If one of us were manager of Mansfield and Derby county came in for us we would go, it’s a job for them and they obviously want to go as far as they can
To be honest Dickos if he wanted to manage in the Premier League Hull City would just about have been the last club in the Championship he should have gone to.
Mansfield to Derby is a much much larger step up than Rovers to Hull imo.
Not really
When he took over they were just outside the playoffs.
The point still stands you’re looking at it as a doncaster supporter and wondering why.
It’s their job they done have any affinity for the club
Hull started on zero points last season same as every one else. He left in the close season.
Your missing the point about McCann. It’s the way he left that leaves a bad taste. He was spouting loyalty to the players and in the next breath he was on his way to Hull.
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I mentioned this separately. We are now entering a run of 4 home games out of 6 and they are all modest opposition. A full week off until the next game. We have played back in lads like Richards, JJ and proved Butler can last a full 90 mins. I make it we have Taylor perhaps back next week, while Gomes and Tulloch look longer. We are not far off a fully fit squad for this crucial run of games.
Sorry to be pedantic Chris, but every home game counts; which is why I'm reminding you that it's actually 4 home games out of the next 5.
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True, although it is also true that we are at home in 4 of the next 6 games.
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Mccann was a very good manager for us.
He’s not a snake he just went on to a bigger club and a club that had serious ambitions of being in the premier league.
If one of us were manager of Mansfield and Derby county came in for us we would go, it’s a job for them and they obviously want to go as far as they can
To be honest Dickos if he wanted to manage in the Premier League Hull City would just about have been the last club in the Championship he should have gone to.
Mansfield to Derby is a much much larger step up than Rovers to Hull imo.
Not really
When he took over they were just outside the playoffs.
The point still stands you’re looking at it as a doncaster supporter and wondering why.
It’s their job they done have any affinity for the club
Hull started on zero points last season same as every one else. He left in the close season.
Your missing the point about McCann. It’s the way he left that leaves a bad taste. He was spouting loyalty to the players and in the next breath he was on his way to Hull.
Apologies what i meant was the season previous to mCcann taking over they were in and around the playoffs most of the season before falling away at the end of the season.
Regarding his departure there’s always two sides to every story we’ve never heard his.
The criticism he gave regarding Andrew, was warranted
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That Charlton game was as good in many ways as Stoke, Wembley and Brentford. Other than of course we lost / got cheated.
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That Charlton game was as good in many ways as Stoke, Wembley and Brentford. Other than of course we lost / got cheated.
And it was my birthday. Nearly got a another trip to Wembley as a present.
We will never know CBcb whether we would have won the penalty shoot out if it had been at our end.
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Mccann was a very good manager for us.
He’s not a snake he just went on to a bigger club and a club that had serious ambitions of being in the premier league.
If one of us were manager of Mansfield and Derby county came in for us we would go, it’s a job for them and they obviously want to go as far as they can
To be honest Dickos if he wanted to manage in the Premier League Hull City would just about have been the last club in the Championship he should have gone to.
Mansfield to Derby is a much much larger step up than Rovers to Hull imo.
Not really
When he took over they were just outside the playoffs.
The point still stands you’re looking at it as a doncaster supporter and wondering why.
It’s their job they done have any affinity for the club
Hull started on zero points last season same as every one else. He left in the close season.
Your missing the point about McCann. It’s the way he left that leaves a bad taste. He was spouting loyalty to the players and in the next breath he was on his way to Hull.
Apologies what i meant was the season previous to mCcann taking over they were in and around the playoffs most of the season before falling away at the end of the season.
Regarding his departure there’s always two sides to every story we’ve never heard his.
The criticism he gave regarding Andrew, was warranted
Of course there are two sides.
In this particular case, on one side were long-term club stalwarts like Coppinger and Butler, on the other was a manager who bailed out at the worst possible moment.
You choose which side you prefer to give the balance of support to.
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Coppinger's response in particular was illuminating.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Coppinger26/status/1142178125071233024
Not a syllable of praise or thanks or even recognition for McCann.
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It spoke volumes, BST. As did the reactions of several other senior players in that squad.