Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: karldew on December 21, 2020, 09:54:45 am
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Can’t see Copps extending or Iain Hume signing but, I wonder if the board give the green light and release funds for DM to work with...
“Green Light for Promotion - Board back Dean by keeping James Coppinger, Signing Iain Hume and looking at signing three others“
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Lundstram came in along with the kid from New Zealand who’s name escapes me think it began H-something
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Dean Furman? He was about that time, and has recently returned to the UK after a spell in South Africa. Decent article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jul/06/dean-furman-jewish-footballers-chelsea-south-africa-interview
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Lundstram came in along with the kid from New Zealand who’s name escapes me think it began H-something
That's going to drive me nuts until I remember it.
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Cameron Howieson, who played a grand total of 0 minutes for us.
Lundstram and Furman were important January additions that season. Made a big difference.
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Cameron Howieson, who played a grand total of 0 minutes for us.
Lundstram and Furman were important January additions that season. Made a big difference.
Thanks RA.
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Cameron Howieson, who played a grand total of 0 minutes for us.
Lundstram and Furman were important January additions that season. Made a big difference.
I could be misremembering but I thought they both joined later - late February or even March. They did give us a much needed boost though.
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Cameron Howieson, who played a grand total of 0 minutes for us.
Lundstram and Furman were important January additions that season. Made a big difference.
I could be misremembering but I thought they both joined later - late February or even March. They did give us a much needed boost though.
You're right Nick, Lundstram joined in February and Furman in March, although I must admit I've forgotten the days of signings out of the conventional window times so just blanket remember these mid-season additions as "January" signings!
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Cameron Howieson, who played a grand total of 0 minutes for us.
Lundstram and Furman were important January additions that season. Made a big difference.
I could be misremembering but I thought they both joined later - late February or even March. They did give us a much needed boost though.
You're right Nick, Lundstram joined in February and Furman in March, although I must admit I've forgotten the days of signings out of the conventional window times so just blanket remember these mid-season additions as "January" signings!
Thought Lundstrum joined us in November 2012.
20th February 2013. He was a Flynn signing, Saunders had a central midfield comprising Syers, Keegan and, erm, James Harper, at his disposal. Lunny and Furman were excellent additions to strengthen.
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His first game for us (and indeed anyone at senior level) was 23 February 2013 in 1-1 draw at home to Yeovil. He started and was subbed in second half for Dave Syers.
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Cameron Howieson, who played a grand total of 0 minutes for us.
Lundstram and Furman were important January additions that season. Made a big difference.
I could be misremembering but I thought they both joined later - late February or even March. They did give us a much needed boost though.
You're right Nick, Lundstram joined in February and Furman in March, although I must admit I've forgotten the days of signings out of the conventional window times so just blanket remember these mid-season additions as "January" signings!
Thought Lundstrum joined us in November 2012.
20th February 2013. He was a Flynn signing, Saunders had a central midfield comprising Syers, Keegan and, erm, James Harper, at his disposal. Lunny and Furman were excellent additions to strengthen.
After Lundstram arrived, we pretty much saw the last of Harper. He only managed one game after his arrival, in that dire 3-0 defeat away to MK ‘Dons’ on 5 March 2013. That was it for him then.
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From memory, Harper was good up until he'd played sufficient games for his contract to be automatically extended. After that there was an decrease in overall effort which was inversely proportional to an increase in pointing.
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From memory, Harper was good up until he'd played sufficient games for his contract to be automatically extended. After that there was an decrease in overall effort which was inversely proportional to an increase in pointing.
Correct. Would rather have kept Martis than that waste of space. He was quite good before the extension as well.
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The Pointer, wasn't he?
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The Pointer, wasn't he?
Yep. The only other player to be so defined by a digit being Dany 'The Toe' N'Guessan.
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I'm still amazed that so few supporters at the time wanted to give Brian Flynn the credit he deserved for steering us to that promotion. Yes, Saunders had assembled a solid 15 at the start of the season that got us on course, but we'd had a lot of luck under him in terms of not suffering from any serious injuries.
Without Flynn taking over we wouldn't have seen the arrivals of Lundstram and Furman who became so crucial, nor would Coppinger have come back, and perhaps we wouldn't have seen Husband pushed forward into midfield so effectively.
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I'm still amazed that so few supporters at the time wanted to give Brian Flynn the credit he deserved for steering us to that promotion. Yes, Saunders had assembled a solid 15 at the start of the season that got us on course, but we'd had a lot of luck under him in terms of not suffering from any serious injuries.
Without Flynn taking over we wouldn't have seen the arrivals of Lundstram and Furman who became so crucial, nor would Coppinger have come back, and perhaps we wouldn't have seen Husband pushed forward into midfield so effectively.
You don't need to convince me, Viva. Then again I was absolutely delighted when Saunders departed to Wolves.
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Andy Griffin was a shrewd move.
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I'm still amazed that so few supporters at the time wanted to give Brian Flynn the credit he deserved for steering us to that promotion. Yes, Saunders had assembled a solid 15 at the start of the season that got us on course, but we'd had a lot of luck under him in terms of not suffering from any serious injuries.
Without Flynn taking over we wouldn't have seen the arrivals of Lundstram and Furman who became so crucial, nor would Coppinger have come back, and perhaps we wouldn't have seen Husband pushed forward into midfield so effectively.
Some numbers from 2012/13.
Saunders left after 26 matches. We had 50 points. That's 1.92 ppg.
Flynn was caretaker, then full manager for the final 20 games of the season. We picked up 34 points. 1.70 ppg.
We went from dominant title winning form to just-about-squeak-a-play-off-spot form under Flynn.
Yes, we got over the line eventually, but we were the width of the bar away from ballsing it up. No side bar Bournemouth covered themselves in glory in the run-in. Only Bournemouth had form over the last 20 games that was equivalent to normal promotion-winning standard. We won the title in the end because our form didn't quite tail off as badly as several other sides, and we'd been left with a buffer to keep us above Bournemouth.
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I'm still amazed that so few supporters at the time wanted to give Brian Flynn the credit he deserved for steering us to that promotion. Yes, Saunders had assembled a solid 15 at the start of the season that got us on course, but we'd had a lot of luck under him in terms of not suffering from any serious injuries.
Without Flynn taking over we wouldn't have seen the arrivals of Lundstram and Furman who became so crucial, nor would Coppinger have come back, and perhaps we wouldn't have seen Husband pushed forward into midfield so effectively.
Some numbers from 2012/13.
Saunders left after 26 matches. We had 50 points. That's 1.92 ppg.
Flynn was caretaker, then full manager for the final 20 games of the season. We picked up 34 points. 1.70 ppg.
We went from dominant title winning form to just-about-squeak-a-play-off-spot form under Flynn.
Yes, we got over the line eventually, but we were the width of the bar away from ballsing it up. No side bar Bournemouth covered themselves in glory in the run-in. Only Bournemouth had form over the last 20 games that was equivalent to normal promotion-winning standard. We won the title in the end because our form didn't quite tail off as badly as several other sides, and we'd been left with a buffer to keep us above Bournemouth.
With probably a better squad under Flynn too. Was glad he didn't get the job full time but would have preferred him or even Stevie Wonder to Dickov.
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It's not all on stats though, is it? Flynn and Jones fostered a never-say-quit attitude that I really don't feel was prevalent in the Saunders era and those signings we made did make a big difference in terms of having the nous and intelligence to get over the line. I don't believe we hit the automatic promotion places until very near the end of Saunders' tenure and Flynn had a promotion push to sustain, which we did.
I think we'd have done better in the Championship with Flynn as well. Dickov did better than he should have done that season but unfortunately he just was not someone capable of being a manager at that level.
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RA.
We first hit the top 2 on 27 Nov. For most of the season up until that date, we'd played fewer matches than teams around us.
I'd beg to differ on the "never say die" approach. We were awful in the last two home games of the season, turning a pretty much nailed-on promotion into the nail-biter it became. We went into the final three weeks of the season 7 points ahead of Brentford (admittedly they had a match in hand). We ended up one arrogant tearaway from them pipping us. We had it entirely in our hands and we very nearly flunked it.
I've certainly no axe to grind for Dickov (beyond pointing out the horrific injury problems that f**ked up our season the following year) but I struggle to see the case that Flynn would have been any better.
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Mystery nobody has ever come close to explaining is how on earth we got within minutes of staying up in Championship under Dickov and only went down on goal difference?
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I think Dickov signed some good players, mainly in defence. We had Tamas and Meite I remember.
But then he signed Sam Johnstone when we had a very capable keeper in Ross Turnbull.
SJ was a very good keeper for us but we had more obvious weaknesses in that squad. The money should have been spent strengthening the midfield.
When RW suffered that bad toe we had no one to play there, just Dean Furman and Paul Keegan lumping it aimlessly...somewhere, anywhere.
I think it was the next season when Dickov lost the plot completely.
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Dickov had a lot of support from the Board and he put a decent side together. We'd have stayed up easily if we hadn't lost the thick end of a dozen players to long term injuries.
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If you've heard the podcast comments from Wellens and Sharp don't put Dickov in the best light.
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I think Dickov signed some good players, mainly in defence. We had Tamas and Meite I remember.
But then he signed Sam Johnstone when we had a very capable keeper in Ross Turnbull.
SJ was a very good keeper for us but we had more obvious weaknesses in that squad. The money should have been spent strengthening the midfield.
When RW suffered that bad toe we had no one to play there, just Dean Furman and Paul Keegan lumping it aimlessly...somewhere, anywhere.
I think it was the next season when Dickov lost the plot completely.
SJ was signed because RT was injured, and Sam was a class above anyway. As regards money, Sam was on loan from Man Utd, who would have paid most of his wages.
You're right about Dickov signing good defenders though. Apart from the 2 you mentioned, there was also Khumalo and Lucas Neill.
Throw in Billy Sharp and Richie Wellens's contract extension, and it becomes clear that Dickov made some very good signings during that Championship season.
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If you've heard the podcast comments from Wellens and Sharp don't put Dickov in the best light.
Just spent the last couple of hours listening to Billy Sharp and Ritchie Wellens. Really enjoyable. Some surprises too. Cheers
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If you've heard the podcast comments from Wellens and Sharp don't put Dickov in the best light.
Just spent the last couple of hours listening to Billy Sharp and Ritchie Wellens. Really enjoyable. Some surprises too. Cheers
If you're partial to a podcast I'd like to point you in the direction of Undr The Cosh. Hosted by Chris Brown & Jon Parkin. Got a load of ex Rovers on there. Jason Prices is a cracker.
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If you've heard the podcast comments from Wellens and Sharp don't put Dickov in the best light.
Just spent the last couple of hours listening to Billy Sharp and Ritchie Wellens. Really enjoyable. Some surprises too. Cheers
If you're partial to a podcast I'd like to point you in the direction of Undr The Cosh. Hosted by Chris Brown & Jon Parkin. Got a load of ex Rovers on there. Jason Prices is a cracker.
Cheers Monkcaster :thumbsup:
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Really enjoyed the podcasts, some interesting & sometimes surprising insights into how the players see different managers, with some funniest thrown in.
The Leo vs Macca race tickled me, also the Saunders free kick
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What still amazes me Bournemouth were on the pitch celebrating the title before Copps scored and it came to us - the Cherries had an astonishing £15m player budget for League One and finished runners up to a team of good lads with a real defensive backbone & team work ethic - just shows you don’t always need money to achieve - togetherness & team spirit can take you far !!
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Really enjoyed the podcasts, some interesting & sometimes surprising insights into how the players see different managers, with some funniest thrown in.
The Leo vs Macca race tickled me, also the Saunders free kick
Ronnie Moore's is great. Said Leo couldn't trap a bag of cement. Bless him
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Really enjoyed the podcasts, some interesting & sometimes surprising insights into how the players see different managers, with some funniest thrown in.
The Leo vs Macca race tickled me, also the Saunders free kick
Ronnie Moore's is great. Said Leo couldn't trap a bag of cement. Bless him
I laughed when they were as amazed as us fans when he turned & smashed that one in the top bin at Hull
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What still amazes me Bournemouth were on the pitch celebrating the title before Copps scored and it came to us - the Cherries had an astonishing £15m player budget for League One and finished runners up to a team of good lads with a real defensive backbone & team work ethic - just shows you don’t always need money to achieve - togetherness & team spirit can take you far !!
I don't remember the precise figures, but our wage bill was VERY high that season by both our standards and the standards of L1. The numbers in my head are that our wage bill was £9m the season before (during The Experiment) and I think, still up around £8m in 2012/13. That compared to a wage bill typically around £6-6.5 million around 2010. The precise numbers are probably not bang in but the general idea is right if I recall correctly.
The massive wage bill in 11/12 gave the lie to the idea that The Experiment was a low-cost way of bringing in high quality players. I've long assumed that massive hike in the wage bill was the key cause of the break between Ryan and Bramall/Watson. It was very soon after The Experiment began that Bramall and Watson resigned. You can well imagine a scenario where they were faced with the anticipated bill and said, "On your head be it."
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It was £6.3m in 12/13 and The Experiment was £8.3m in 11/12. The previous season 10/11 it was £6.7m.
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Quite a lot of difference between £8m. and £6.3m.
Thanks for posting that CBCB.
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It was £6.3m in 12/13 and The Experiment was £8.3m in 11/12. The previous season 10/11 it was £6.7m.
Thanks for the numbers CBCB. I was obviously a bit out on my memory of the precise figures, but that 12/13 wage bill was still very big for L1 and by our standards. Do you have other years' figures for us in L1 for comparison? And what our wage bill was in 13/14 in the Championship?
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13/14 was £6.6m which dropped through floor on relegation. Following season 14/15 it was £3.7m.
Putting aside The Experiment in 11/12, we had a fairly flat wage bill in Championship. Final full season of SOD in 10/11 was £6.7m and prior season 09/10 was £5.9m.
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What still amazes me Bournemouth were on the pitch celebrating the title before Copps scored and it came to us - the Cherries had an astonishing £15m player budget for League One and finished runners up to a team of good lads with a real defensive backbone & team work ethic - just shows you don’t always need money to achieve - togetherness & team spirit can take you far !!
No way was there wage bill that much. It was high but I'd be shocked if it was over 10 million. When they went up to the prem I'm sure I have read there was plenty of teams with bigger budget's.
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Thanks CBCB. Confirms the gist of what I remembered, that the 12/13 budget was on a par with our Championship budgets and much, much higher than what we typically had in L1.
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What still amazes me Bournemouth were on the pitch celebrating the title before Copps scored and it came to us - the Cherries had an astonishing £15m player budget for League One and finished runners up to a team of good lads with a real defensive backbone & team work ethic - just shows you don’t always need money to achieve - togetherness & team spirit can take you far !!
No way was there wage bill that much. It was high but I'd be shocked if it was over 10 million. When they went up to the prem I'm sure I have read there was plenty of teams with bigger budget's.
In 12/13 Bournemouth spent £11m on wages, which was almost double our spend of £6.3m.
In 13/14 when we went down and they stayed up, their spend was £14.8m and ours was £6.6m. We barely spent more while they increased their spend by around a third.