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Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: donnyspadge on March 04, 2021, 11:04:36 am

Title: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: donnyspadge on March 04, 2021, 11:04:36 am
1. Is AB close to choosing his assistant ?

2. Are we anywhere near advanced talks with any players out of contract at the end of the season and is it up to AB who he wants to keep?

3. Was the loan policy DMs idea or the clubs and will we be moving forward with this idea or go with the new managers ideas if they chose to go a different way?

Thanks

 :rtid:
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: DRNaith on March 04, 2021, 11:06:51 am
I don't think that my wife would be too happy if I adopted your theory of what a couple is!  :whistle:
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: donnyspadge on March 04, 2021, 11:09:03 am
Its only like going to the pub for a couple of pints you always get that 1 extra in  :)
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: the vicar on March 04, 2021, 12:03:10 pm
1. Is AB close to choosing his assistant ?

2. Are we anywhere near advanced talks with any players out of contract at the end of the season and is it up to AB who he wants to keep?

3. Was the loan policy DMs idea or the clubs and will we be moving forward with this idea or go with the new managers ideas if they chose to go a different way?

Thanks

 :rtid:
SM said yesterday that ABwas talking to people yesterday about it so I would imagine he is close
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: jmt23 on March 04, 2021, 12:19:10 pm
I hope the loan strategy is kept - it does seem that this is with a view to keeping some of them, and helps us compete at the top end of the division on a relatively tight budget
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on March 04, 2021, 12:29:13 pm
Anybody would think loans are a new phenomenon.

I sincerely hope we continue to use the loan market. It would be madness not to. There's a fair few clubs in the Championship who utilise the loan market too.

It's down to the manager to get the right balance he's comfortable with and to integrate the players so they feel part of the family etc. Than there's exploring the options of turning loans into permanent if it's best for all parties.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: the vicar on March 04, 2021, 12:34:05 pm
I hope the loan strategy is kept - it does seem that this is with a view to keeping some of them, and helps us compete at the top end of the division on a relatively tight budget
don’t you want to go up jmt lol.  If we do we might get better players on loan.  But, I want to see us bring our own young lads through rather than help other clubs with there’s
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: jmt23 on March 04, 2021, 12:42:37 pm
If there is one thing that did baffle me with DM (and I don't really want to talk about him now) is that he seemed like a kid in a sweet shop with some of the signings. Nothing against some of them as they are good players however, Did we need CJ (I like him and was surprised we got him, but to not play such a talent in his role is odd) Robertson did we need him, seemed needless..
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: Superspy on March 04, 2021, 12:44:31 pm
Suppose it depends on whether they bring value. We've often lamented having such a small squad. Having those players give us some flexibilty in other areas. James playing further forward, for example.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: donnyspadge on March 04, 2021, 12:52:00 pm
I'm not saying don't use the loan market at all.... but like others have said to bring in 3 or 4 loans with a view to sign them on a permanent. Or high class loans such as sims who let's be honest we could probably never afford on a permanent if in league 1.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: DearneValleyRover on March 04, 2021, 01:59:18 pm
It’s a balance, loans allow you to get better players that the club couldn’t otherwise afford also the try before you buy scenario that works for both club and player. The other side to it is that your own youngsters are training with better quality players so are learning new skill sets, even Copps admitted he has learnt things off Sims. I believe we are slowly starting to see the benefits in Jones and Greaves, plus how much better the U18’s are compared to even 5 years ago.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: silent majority on March 04, 2021, 06:16:33 pm
1. Is AB close to choosing his assistant ?

2. Are we anywhere near advanced talks with any players out of contract at the end of the season and is it up to AB who he wants to keep?

3. Was the loan policy DMs idea or the clubs and will we be moving forward with this idea or go with the new managers ideas if they chose to go a different way?

Thanks

 :rtid:

1) Not sure, it was mentioned on Tuesday night at the Supporters Board meeting that AB was speaking to people on Wednesday.

2) As I've mentioned elsewhere agreement to discuss new contracts is ongoing and AB sees it as important. It's in progress in other words.

3) It wasn't DM's idea, the club has been doing this a while, as has the rest of football. What I would say though is that DM utilised it more than any other manager though. Going forward I would say it will be a fluid situation, if good players can be signed they will be , but if good loan players are available then they'll be signed as well. Having loan players in the squad improves the quality of the squad and the levels of performance that DRFC can rise to. It would be harder without them that's for sure.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: donnyspadge on March 04, 2021, 10:12:12 pm
Thanks for that mate
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: Surrey Rover on March 13, 2021, 09:19:58 pm
1. Is AB close to choosing his assistant ?

Thanks

 :rtid:

1) Not sure, it was mentioned on Tuesday night at the Supporters Board meeting that AB was speaking to people on Wednesday.


Any further developments on this matter?
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: rich1471 on March 13, 2021, 10:16:09 pm
 The Loan players we have we will contribute towards the wages but it's not included in the salary cap wages the club can spend as I read it
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: since-1969 on March 13, 2021, 11:30:11 pm
1. Is AB close to choosing his assistant ?

2. Are we anywhere near advanced talks with any players out of contract at the end of the season and is it up to AB who he wants to keep?

3. Was the loan policy DMs idea or the clubs and will we be moving forward with this idea or go with the new managers ideas if they chose to go a different way?

Thanks

 :rtid:

1) Not sure, it was mentioned on Tuesday night at the Supporters Board meeting that AB was speaking to people on Wednesday.

2) As I've mentioned elsewhere agreement to discuss new contracts is ongoing and AB sees it as important. It's in progress in other words.

3) It wasn't DM's idea, the club has been doing this a while, as has the rest of football. What I would say though is that DM utilised it more than any other manager though. Going forward I would say it will be a fluid situation, if good players can be signed they will be , but if good loan players are available then they'll be signed as well. Having loan players in the squad improves the quality of the squad and the levels of performance that DRFC can rise to. It would be harder without them that's for sure.

1) May have to be his own successor .. ?
2) Contracts aren’t going be AB concern if doesn’t keep the job!
3) Loans are the only way we can field a competitive team so it’s part of the clubs DNA now !
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: ravenrover on March 14, 2021, 12:22:50 pm
So are you advocating that contracts are left to run out until it's decided at the end of the season if AB gets the job fulltime?
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: Janso on March 14, 2021, 12:58:31 pm
Probably, so he'd have something else to whine about.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: since-1969 on March 14, 2021, 01:35:10 pm
So are you advocating that contracts are left to run out until it's decided at the end of the season if AB gets the job fulltime?
No .. it just won’t be AB decision . What budget is available will ultimately be the deciding factor . 
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: ravenrover on March 14, 2021, 06:30:59 pm
So are you advocating that contracts are left to run out until it's decided at the end of the season if AB gets the job fulltime?
No .. it just won’t be AB decision . What budget is available will ultimately be the deciding factor . 
So in one post you are saying it won't be ABs concern if he doesn't keep the job, in another you say it may be his successor so which way will it be ? AB has an imput or let the contracts run down until a new manager takes over it can't be both
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: steve@dcfd on March 14, 2021, 06:49:06 pm
Contracts will have to be sorted sooner than later. AB will probably have an input but if the CEO and Chairman along with Adam Henshall don’t know who we must try and keep hence offer contracts to then they are not doing their jobs. So let’s hope we hear something for the definite ones quickly.
 It will take negotiations but it should be sorted quickly.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: since-1969 on March 14, 2021, 07:20:33 pm
So are you advocating that contracts are left to run out until it's decided at the end of the season if AB gets the job fulltime?
No .. it just won’t be AB decision . What budget is available will ultimately be the deciding factor . 
So in one post you are saying it won't be ABs concern if he doesn't keep the job, in another you say it may be his successor so which way will it be ? AB has an imput or let the contracts run down until a new manager takes over it can't be both
[/quote I know I can be pedantic but your just thick !! If he chooses  his own second in command this could turn out to be his own successor by the end of the season !!
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: idler on March 14, 2021, 07:39:39 pm
I would imagine a consensus of AB,GB and AH will decide who can be of use to DRFC next season and whoever gets the job will be told this is the squad we go with and who do you want to supplement it. End of.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: DRNaith on March 14, 2021, 08:54:09 pm
I would imagine a consensus of AB,GB and AH will decide who can be of use to DRFC next season and whoever gets the job will be told this is the squad we go with and who do you want to supplement it. End of.

Exactly. Every new manager adopts some level of squad with players on varying lengths of contract.

The line further up of "your just thick" did make me laugh though.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: since-1969 on March 14, 2021, 10:15:21 pm
I would imagine a consensus of AB,GB and AH will decide who can be of use to DRFC next season and whoever gets the job will be told this is the squad we go with and who do you want to supplement it. End of.

Exactly. Every new manager adopts some level of squad with players on varying lengths of contract.

The line further up of "your just thick" did make me laugh though.
But it’s the board who sign the cheques not the manager !!
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: idler on March 14, 2021, 11:09:40 pm
The board sign the cheques for players identified by the staff employed to identify targets.
These staff members are the people with the knowledge needed to identify players capable of fitting in and being of the right temperament and quality to fit in and improve the existing squad.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: keith79 on March 15, 2021, 05:55:25 am
Just hope it's not end of July when they decide the new manager.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: graingrover on March 15, 2021, 03:42:02 pm
The latest reported quote from AB is that he wants a squad players that belong to the club .I think the danger of an interim manager changing the model so fundamentally is a mistake and hopefully it is not the end of us taking top loanees .
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: GazLaz on March 15, 2021, 03:54:07 pm
The latest reported quote from AB is that he wants a squad players that belong to the club .I think the danger of an interim manager changing the model so fundamentally is a mistake and hopefully it is not the end of us taking top loanees .

Surely the club set the model for the manager to work to. 
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: redarmy82 on March 15, 2021, 04:24:58 pm
The latest reported quote from AB is that he wants a squad players that belong to the club .I think the danger of an interim manager changing the model so fundamentally is a mistake and hopefully it is not the end of us taking top loanees .

We won't ever stop taking loanees. Butler may not want the same high number as previous incumbents, but he's going to have to utilise them at some stage.

I guess he works with his budget. If he thinks he can bring players in permanent with that rather than on loan, its up to him.

If he gets the job after the end of this season, obviously.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: Jonathan on March 15, 2021, 05:08:58 pm
The latest reported quote from AB is that he wants a squad players that belong to the club .I think the danger of an interim manager changing the model so fundamentally is a mistake and hopefully it is not the end of us taking top loanees .

The quote only tells half the story. He wants a core of contracted players that want to be here (and I agree with him) and then supplement that with some high calibre loanees. Makes perfect sense to me and preferable to how we’ve ended up this season with more loanees than we can put in the squad, and amongst them some mediocrity if we’re honest.

The full interview is linked on the Football Heaven Twitter account.

I don’t think anyone is arguing with the benefit of bringing in players like Smith, Richards, TJJ and Sims (first spell) on loan.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: Chris Black come back on March 15, 2021, 05:53:31 pm
It’s a fractured, messy season I know but who have been our consistently best players?

James. Anderson. Copps. Bostock to a lesser extent. We own them all.

Loan players are excellent but it is not them dragging the permanent players along.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: dickos1 on March 15, 2021, 06:29:48 pm
I love copps but I’m struggling to be able to find an arguement to suggest he’s had a better season for us than sims
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: drfchound on March 15, 2021, 07:35:52 pm
Copps hasn’t had as much game time as Sims has he.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on March 15, 2021, 08:20:23 pm
I love copps but I’m struggling to be able to find an arguement to suggest he’s had a better season for us than sims

Whilst I don't disagree, have we overinflated sims' impact somewhat? Our best run came after he got injured and his impact upon return has been pretty poor.

I do like him absolutely, but would and should we make him the main guy, top earner etc?  Not sure.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: Michael Shaw on March 15, 2021, 09:43:50 pm
I would be surprised if the board are not already considering possible replacements for DM. AB might have the job until the end of the season, but that doesn’t mean we can’t have another in place ready for pre-season. Much as we all love AB he is not an experienced manager with the right contacts to put in quality loan signings. Even AB can’t understand the current fall-off in team performance, but if it continues the chances of AB getting the job fulltime will diminish as the season goes on.

On the subject of loan signings, the board said at a previous Meet The Owners night that statistics showed that most teams who got promoted had around 7 loan signings, so that was to be our target.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: BobG on March 16, 2021, 12:04:30 pm
That final paragraph, Michael Shaw, is an extremely interesting snippet. Thank you.

BobG
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: NickDRFC on March 16, 2021, 02:20:31 pm
That final paragraph, Michael Shaw, is an extremely interesting snippet. Thank you.

BobG

I've just looked this up as it seemed unlikely to me and it's certainly not true in any of the last 3 seasons. The average for the 9 clubs promoted over that period is 5, with only 1 having 7 (Charlton in 2018/19), although they only had 5 at any one time and 2 of them didn't make a single appearance.

I'm not trying to decry our use of the loan system, but suggesting that recently successful clubs at our level loan as many players as we have (if the board did indeed suggest that) is misleading.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: RoversAlias on March 16, 2021, 03:11:25 pm
I was gonna say, surely that comment that Michael mentioned came from a MTO event from a few years ago, before they abolished the short-term loans system?

I can't think of another team in our league who have elected to go over the loan limit as a strategy like Darren Moore has. I am all for utilising the loan system but he took it too far and having 7 on the books at once is largely pointless, even if injuries mean you only have 4-5 available at a time.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on March 16, 2021, 03:54:16 pm
I was gonna say, surely that comment that Michael mentioned came from a MTO event from a few years ago, before they abolished the short-term loans system?

I can't think of another team in our league who have elected to go over the loan limit as a strategy like Darren Moore has. I am all for utilising the loan system but he took it too far and having 7 on the books at once is largely pointless, even if injuries mean you only have 4-5 available at a time.

No, I remember it. It was only fairly recently when basically, they were supporting the manager, Can't remember if it was McCann or Moore, when challenged about the number of loans being used.

I don't think GB for one minute was stipulating that we should always go with 6 or 7 loans but was saying it can work.

I'm pretty sure the board will not be that specific and will allow the manager of the day to recruit as he sees fit but acknowledging like most of us do, the benefits of utilising good young talent from Premier league clubs. .
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: Chris Black come back on March 16, 2021, 04:04:18 pm
In theory the McCann model sounds best, where 2-3 top quality loans add to a strong permanent spine. That feels right....

...but Gavin rightly talks about “try before you buy” which is not so easy if you want to convince a young lad to come on loan and can’t really offer them much more than bench time as you have a permanent core you don’t want to disrupt.

Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: GazLaz on March 16, 2021, 04:37:42 pm
Rotherham’s wage bill in their L1 promotion season was £5.8m according to their accounts. I’d say that is double ours.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: roversdude on March 16, 2021, 04:41:07 pm
Did Rotherham have a parachute payment
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: eastender on March 16, 2021, 05:02:28 pm
Did Rotherham have a parachute payment

No, only relegated Premiership teams get parachute payments.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: ravenrover on March 16, 2021, 06:09:39 pm
Perhaps the decision to go for 7 loans was to do with Covid? Trying to keep the wage bill down with no income?
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on March 16, 2021, 07:42:27 pm
Think it’s been said that the extent we’ve used the loan market this season is a DM thing. We did the same last year thinking about it so makes sense.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: ravenrover on March 16, 2021, 08:35:11 pm
Poor memory from me, how many did we have last season?
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: sedwardsdrfc on March 16, 2021, 08:55:14 pm
Can’t remember exactly but I’m sure we had the situation where we couldn’t name one in the squad.

Off the top of my head we had the following; Sheaf, Dieng, John, Ennis, Lokilo and Ramsey
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: Chris Black come back on March 16, 2021, 09:12:27 pm
Daniels and Sterling.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: 5 on Tour on March 16, 2021, 09:15:09 pm
Does Sterling really count? He was only fit for half an hour while we had him.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: Chris Black come back on March 16, 2021, 09:16:56 pm
I don't think Moore cancelled the loan for a long time. Maybe in January and then season collapsed in February.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: steve@dcfd on March 16, 2021, 09:23:57 pm
Can’t remember exactly but I’m sure we had the situation where we couldn’t name one in the squad.

Off the top of my head we had the following; Sheaf, Dieng, John, Ennis, Lokilo and Ramsey
That’s correct we had six loanees and it was at a meet the owners meeting while DM was manager that Gavin said about 7 loanees.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: RoversAlias on March 16, 2021, 09:45:23 pm
I stand corrected in that case, fair enough. Quite surprised by that comment but it doesn't seem to track with reality.
Title: Re: A couple of questions for SM.
Post by: Michael Shaw on March 16, 2021, 10:04:21 pm
It was certainly Gavin that made the statement about the number of loans. Had it been a manager who said it the policy could have changed along with managers, but coming from Gavin it is more likely to be a policy that still applies now. It probably was 2 or 3 years ago as we didn't have a MOTO last year.